[HN Gopher] Show HN: Birdy - Twitter Profile A/B Testing
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       Show HN: Birdy - Twitter Profile A/B Testing
        
       Author : maximedupre
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2022-07-27 11:57 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (birdy.so)
 (TXT) w3m dump (birdy.so)
        
       | ushakov wrote:
       | how many people are using this? why do they find it useful?
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | I have about 15 users. Because they want to optimize their
         | profile and perfect the funnel that converts profile visitors
         | into followers :D Or test out which profile converts to more
         | clicks on their bio link.
        
       | goncalo-r wrote:
       | Looks really cool! Would you a consider a free tier if you have a
       | low follower count?
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Oh! That's a good idea. I didn't think about that.
         | 
         | I think at some point I'll have a free plan for everyone (with
         | limited features). I just need to finish implementing all the
         | profile components and then enable only some of them for the
         | free plan.
        
       | nstart wrote:
       | This is a brilliant idea. Feel like it should work since this is
       | already done for YouTube. The same mechanism is used to A/B test
       | thumbnails and automatically choose one to be the winning
       | candidate.
       | 
       | Congrats on making this.
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thank you!!
         | 
         | I'm not the one that will create this, but I agree. The more
         | you can A/B test everything, the better xD
        
       | maximedupre wrote:
       | I built Birdy to help you optimize your Twitter profile with
       | continual automated A/B testing!
       | 
       | Why? More Twitter followers. More website clicks.
       | 
       | I'm a huge fan of Twitter since I discovered the indie makers
       | community. I wanted to create a product around this passion of
       | mine, so I started experimenting with the Twitter API and I
       | eventually landed on profile A/B testing as a cool problem to
       | solve :).
        
         | WA wrote:
         | What's a good entry to the indie maker community on Twitter?
        
           | __mharrison__ wrote:
           | I have almost 90K followers on Twitter and have a few ideas
           | about how to grow your following.
           | 
           | - Interact with others (w/ high followers) in your niche
           | 
           | - Produce interesting content in your niche
           | 
           | - Consistency
           | 
           | I've created a 30 day course to walk you through these steps:
           | 
           | https://store.metasnake.com/twitter-for-developers
           | 
           | (It is currently part of a Python Humble Bundle where you can
           | get it a little cheaper.)
        
           | maximedupre wrote:
           | Start building a strong Twitter presence! Also engage with
           | the IndieHacker forum.
        
             | prionassembly wrote:
             | I have a years old Twitter account with like 300 followers
             | (many mutuals) but very low engagement on anything that
             | isn't a reply to a higher-profile account.
             | 
             | Should I create a fresh account to reset how the algorithm
             | sees me, or should I double down on this one that already
             | has /some/ (not much) visibility?
        
               | maximedupre wrote:
               | Definitely double down on the one you already have.
               | Starting from 0 is way more difficult than starting out
               | with 300 followers.
               | 
               | Transform your profile and make it super interesting
               | (work on your banner and bio, then have a good pinned
               | tweet once you get a somewhat viral tweet). Then engages
               | daily with other accounts - that's where new people will
               | discover you.
        
               | dewey wrote:
               | > Should I create a fresh account to reset how the
               | algorithm sees me
               | 
               | Don't overthink it, just think about why someone would
               | follow you. If it's just a bunch of retweets about a
               | large range of topics it's usually not very interesting
               | to people. Unlike TikTok there's no algorithm that
               | suddenly puts you in some recommendation box where you
               | then get millions of views over night.
               | 
               | - Make sure you have a profile picture, a good
               | description
               | 
               | - Clean out the people you follow to be relevant to what
               | you care about these days
               | 
               | - Follow interesting people in your niche
               | 
               | - Reply to tweets if you have some interesting to say,
               | engage with content you like.
               | 
               | After a while you'll see people over and over and if you
               | like what they put out, you follow them.
        
       | dewey wrote:
       | Cool idea, looks very polished. I guess for this to work best,
       | you need to be very consistent with putting out content to get a
       | good baseline?
       | 
       | The Twitter maker community is exciting to be in right now. Lots
       | of fun tools popping up (Saying this as a fellow bird-named tool
       | creator: https://getbirdfeeder.com).
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thanks :)
         | 
         | > I guess for this to work best, you need to be very consistent
         | with putting out content to get a good baseline?
         | 
         | Exactly! You need to be active, because the stats are based on
         | profile clicks, which are derived from your tweets.
         | 
         | > The Twitter maker community is exciting to be in right now.
         | Lots of fun tools popping up (Saying this as a fellow bird-
         | named tool creator: https://getbirdfeeder.com).
         | 
         | It's the best community I've ever been a part of :O Birdfeeder
         | looks nice :D
        
       | jwilber wrote:
       | I like the website!
       | 
       | There is no "testing" going on here, unfortunately. You're just
       | taking turns placing users in the treatment or control group,
       | arbitrarily, depending on when they visit the page. How can you
       | measure any treatment effect when everyone is part of either
       | group?
       | 
       | I guess you could try something like switchback testing, but I'm
       | not convinced visits to the average Twitter profile will yield
       | enough samples.
       | 
       | I think it's a well-executed idea, but I don't think it's fair to
       | sell results under the guise of statistical validity when they
       | don't appear to have that. (although it's just Twitter profiles,
       | not eg medical treatment, so no real harm done)
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thanks for the comment :D
         | 
         | > There is no "testing" going on here, unfortunately. You're
         | just taking turns placing users in the treatment or control
         | group, arbitrarily, depending on when they visit the page. How
         | can you measure any treatment effect when everyone is part of
         | either group?
         | 
         | This is not a perfect solution, but I have found that it is
         | good enough to be able to identify clear winners (if there is
         | actually a winning version). A lot of followers won't visit
         | your profile multiple times anyway. They visit it, and they
         | either follow it or they don't - and they will of course be
         | influenced by the currently displayed version :). They won't
         | just come back to your profile over and over again for no
         | reason, but if they do, they will also convert better on the
         | version they prefer. So a version might nudge the user into
         | following you while another one might not. I would disagree
         | that this is not testing. I think it is for the majority of the
         | profile clicks you receive.
         | 
         | > I guess you could try something like switchback testing, but
         | I'm not convinced visits to the average Twitter profile will
         | yield enough samples.
         | 
         | I don't think that would be possible with the current Twitter
         | API capabilities anyway.
         | 
         | > I think it's a well-executed idea, but I don't think it's
         | fair to sell results under the guise of statistical validity
         | when they don't appear to have that. (although it's just
         | Twitter profiles, not eg medical treatment, so no real harm
         | done)
         | 
         | While the results might not be perfectly accurate, I think they
         | are accurate enough to provide value, especially if you let the
         | test run long enough to get a big sample size. I personally use
         | Birdy (obviously :D) and I have noticed much better conversion,
         | which is why I'm confident.
         | 
         | I'm looking forward to seeing new capabilities appear on the
         | Twitter API to always make the process more accurate though.
        
       | mattgreenrocks wrote:
       | Looks slick. Really like the landing page, did you do it
       | yourself?
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thank you! Yes, custom built with Tailwind. First I wanted to
         | use a landing page template, but then I decided it would be
         | easier to just build it myself hehe
        
       | dagorenouf wrote:
       | This looks super handy
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thank you sir. Try it out sometime
        
       | atestu wrote:
       | What a great, simple idea. Way to follow through and actually
       | make it happen!
       | 
       | Random ideas:
       | 
       | * Pricing: you could tie pricing with the performance (pay $1 per
       | extra followers that your best version is getting - cap at $X0).
       | 
       | * Marketing: use the twitter api to find accounts that need you
       | the most. Probably businesses who tweet a lot with little
       | engagement. You could target newly funded startups, maybe look at
       | who's posting on product hunt etc.
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Hey, thanks :D
         | 
         | > Pricing: you could tie pricing with the performance (pay $1
         | per extra followers that your best version is getting - cap at
         | $X0).
         | 
         | That's interesting, I never thought about this pricing model
         | haha. I'll see if this makes sense. For example, you might get
         | some followers from people that have not clicked on your
         | profile (name hover or suggestions) (and there is no way of
         | detecting this).
         | 
         | > Marketing: use the twitter api to find accounts that need you
         | the most. Probably businesses who tweet a lot with little
         | engagement. You could target newly funded startups, maybe look
         | at who's posting on product hunt etc.
         | 
         | Good idea. I'm also thinking about reaching out to social media
         | agencies. They might be interesting in a tool that will help
         | their clients grow on Twitter :)
        
       | jeremydavid wrote:
       | Do this with the Apple App Store! "App Store Optimization" is a
       | huge business, and something simple like this (with suggestions
       | on what you should try - perhaps a premium feature?)
       | 
       | I'd sign up instantly
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | The only reason I built Birdy is because I'm totally a fan of
         | the platform :D
         | 
         | I'm not so much a fan of the App Store platform.
         | 
         | As far as Twitter Profile A/B Testing goes, it is in my plans
         | to add AI-based suggestions (based on the top performing
         | profile versions) :)
        
           | mritchie712 wrote:
           | go with what you know! easy to get distracted by shiny
           | objects, stick with Twitter!
        
             | maximedupre wrote:
             | That is the plan Mike! And I'd rather have fun while
             | building it :D
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | I think this is supported in the App Store since iOS 15.
        
           | maximedupre wrote:
           | It doesn't seem to be available for the Mac app store however
           | :/
        
             | mattgreenrocks wrote:
             | Yeah, the Mac app store progresses much slower than the iOS
             | store for whatever reason.
        
       | ahmedxfn wrote:
       | You nailed it buddy.
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thanks :) Now let's see if people want to actually use it :D
        
       | abdouls wrote:
       | I've followed the progress and I must say I am happy to see this
       | out there! Looks really cool!
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thank you!!
         | 
         | I wasn't expecting this post to reach the front page of HN, I
         | usually get ignored on here xD
        
       | throwaway2016a wrote:
       | Great job. If I ever figure out how to get a non-bot conversion
       | rate > 0.0% I'd love to try this :) Twitter is a mystery to me.
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thanks. The secret is that you need to tweet a lot [of good
         | stuff] :D
        
       | shay_ker wrote:
       | If I'm understanding correctly, this switches your profile on
       | some interval between A and B, whereas a proper A/B test will
       | randomly bucket a user to experiment A or B.
       | 
       | Not that it matters - this solution is probably the right way to
       | go without building something into Twitter itself - but the more
       | data/stats oriented folks may be confused or irked by calling
       | this "A/B testing"
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | That is correct - it switched your profile version at a regular
         | interval.
         | 
         | Indeed, that's the only way I could do it. The Twitter API has
         | its limitations :D
         | 
         | I didn't know there was a specific definition of A/B testing.
         | I'll see if I get more complaints about the terms I use ^^.
         | 
         | To me, that's still A/B testing - that is I'm testing a version
         | A and a version B and then report on which one does better. I
         | guess the way I'm doing it is different :D
        
           | e_i_pi_2 wrote:
           | Definitely agree that this is a good solution given the
           | limitations, I think the only downside to this approach is
           | that there might be some effect based on time of day or the
           | interval affecting your results. That said I think the
           | chances of that are super low and A/B testing is only so
           | accurate anyway. Great idea and nice website!
        
             | maximedupre wrote:
             | Thank you!
             | 
             | > I think the only downside to this approach is that there
             | might be some effect based on time of day or the interval
             | affecting your results.
             | 
             | That is definitely true. I'm about to start alternating the
             | versions every 5m to mitigate this. The closer I can get to
             | 0m, the more accurate the results are. This way even if you
             | get a followers spike (let's say you get a viral tweet),
             | the followers will be properly distributed between each
             | version.
        
               | kqr wrote:
               | Then you get the opposite problem: users are more likely
               | to see multiple versions of the same profile.
        
               | maximedupre wrote:
               | I feel like that's less of a problem because the user is
               | more likely to convert on the version that he likes more,
               | which would still provide accurate data.
               | 
               | But yes, there is no perfect solution with the
               | limitations of the API :D
        
               | yeahboats wrote:
               | I think what you really want to do is randomize A or B
               | within each 30m (or 5m) interval. This is basically
               | switchback testing. Door dash has a nice write-up here:
               | https://doordash.engineering/2018/02/13/switchback-tests-
               | and...
        
               | maximedupre wrote:
               | Oh right, that's actually a better technique! Thanks for
               | the idea.
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | Why is bucketing users the better approach? To me it seems like
         | bucketing would ignore "all other factors" that also changed,
         | whereas dynamic (or periodic) switching seems like it would
         | normalize those "other factors" across both A/B (ideally).
        
           | maximedupre wrote:
           | I suppose that the issue is that a single user could see both
           | versions, which could skew the data.
           | 
           | I'm not sure I totally understand why, because if a user
           | follows you after seeing the other profile version, it might
           | be because he preferred this other version.
           | 
           | But conceptually it makes sense to eliminate as many
           | variables as you can to isolate the components of the test.
        
       | asciii wrote:
       | Great job, I also like the layout of your site to show it off.
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thanks, did quite a bit of work on the landing page :D
         | 
         | I got a bunch of great feedback on Twitter as well, so I could
         | polish it a bit.
        
       | sreejithr wrote:
       | Don't want to rain on your parade but this is in no way a
       | scientific A/B test. If I understand this correctly, Birdy
       | periodically switches profile information b/n A and B.
       | 
       | * How do you make sure the same user who was on A variant
       | yesterday doesn't get the B variant today?
       | 
       | If the same user gets both variants over different periods of
       | time, how can you say treatment group engaged more with your
       | content. People shuffle in and out of the treatment group
       | periodically. Thoughts?
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | You understand Birdy's mechanism correctly :D
         | 
         | > How do you make sure the same user who was on A variant
         | yesterday doesn't get the B variant today?
         | 
         | You can't. You make the point that the stats generated by Birdy
         | are not 100% accurate, but they're the best we've got given the
         | limitations of the Twitter API :D
         | 
         | I make the point that the data is good enough, and
         | statistically significant enough (especially if you let the
         | test run enough) to help you find the better profile version.
         | 
         | I agree that this subset of visitors that may come twice or
         | more _can_ skew the data.
         | 
         | Birdy's stats are not to be taken as the absolute truth, but as
         | solid clues as to which profile version it is alternating
         | between is providing the best results.
         | 
         | I'm looking forward to improving Birdy as Twitter adds more
         | capabilities to their API!
        
       | avikonduru wrote:
       | Wow, awesome product. Good luck on the launch!
        
         | maximedupre wrote:
         | Thank you!! I wouldn't call this a launch though, I was
         | expecting to post into the void xD
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-27 23:02 UTC)