[HN Gopher] VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 released
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VM/370 Community Edition V1R1.2 released
Author : nix23
Score : 54 points
Date : 2022-07-26 09:28 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.vm370.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.vm370.org)
| protomyth wrote:
| Now if I can get XEDIT, 370 Assembler, and a Modula 2 compiler, I
| could recreate my college experience.
| rbanffy wrote:
| You'll need a beam spring keyboard. ;-)
| protomyth wrote:
| I actually have one (or close to it) since we have an old
| AS/400 terminal in the backroom. We bought a new iSeries and
| that, sadly, uses a PC as a console terminal.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Going back to where you lived before is the best (if not the
| only) way to cure yourself of nostalgia. (You may or may not
| want to do that.)
| rbanffy wrote:
| Not sure I agree completely with that. These were simpler OSs
| for a simpler time. A lot of what I do today I accomplished
| in the 80s with an Apple II, a phone line, and a modem. I
| read emails (we didn't call them that back then), wrote
| software, built databases, discussed esoteric topics in
| BBSs... Even met my first wife online over a Minitel-like
| system.
| digitalsankhara wrote:
| Similar for me but on BBC-B Micro. Rose tinted memories
| perhaps. And replication of that experience now would be a
| very interesting exercise in patience and acceptance for
| me. Indeed simpler times.
|
| Could I personally go back? As much as technology has given
| us super fast hardware, very complex and flexible operating
| systems, GUIs and complex software am I any better off for
| it? Outside of my professional work where I have to deliver
| my work within a defined technology stack, I wonder how
| much I could do without and go back in time.
|
| And even then a lot of what I produce professionally
| resides in text files, so I could originate them on an
| older system - the key to this is, of course,
| interconnectivity or a bridging technology. SCSI to USB
| stick anyone!
|
| As much as there is an alternative lifestyle to be had
| rooted in minimalism and contentment in simpler things
| (which I aspire to) I am tempted to stop the hyper-driven
| tech world and get off!
|
| Reading the work and enthusiasm of retro-computing people
| is actually quite inspiring.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > And even then a lot of what I produce professionally
| resides in text files, so I could originate them on an
| older system - the key to this is, of course,
| interconnectivity or a bridging technology. SCSI to USB
| stick anyone!
|
| One think I did a lot, which is kind of cheating, is to
| use X to run the heavy lifting on my Linux box while
| sitting in front of a Sun.
|
| A lot of what we do is just larger versions of what we
| did before. We call batch processing ETL and use tables
| instead of tapes, but the ideas are there.
|
| And, unlike some MacBooks, a BBC has an ESC key ;-)
| Koshkin wrote:
| Sure, but you might lose some of the fondness of those
| memories if you tried and repeat the same experience today.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I routinely do. I have a number of old computers that are
| still functional. Won't be writing anything to network
| drives from the Apple II, but DOS PCs (yuck!) and Macs
| are fair game.
| protomyth wrote:
| I gotta admit XEDIT was kind of interesting for the left side
| command area.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEDIT
| notorandit wrote:
| Really?
| Koshkin wrote:
| Historia vero testis temporum, lux veritatis, vita memoriae,
| _magistra vitae_ , nuntia vetustatis, qua voce alia nisi
| oratoris immortalitati commendatur?
| notorandit wrote:
| Historia docet historiam numquam docere.
| TomMasz wrote:
| This is the OS I started out on. It's been a long time since I
| typed #CP IPL CMS PARM AUTOCR on a 3270.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I still remember starting the Mantis IDE (we didn't call them
| IDEs at the time) with a //EXEC PGM=MANTIS
| cbm-vic-20 wrote:
| HP needs to do this with VAX/VMS.
| Zenst wrote:
| Indeed, the irony that they call it OpenVMS now when you can
| only get an evaluation for comercial use and they explicitly
| bar hobbiests is a shame.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| Unless things have changed recently, hobbyists can sign up
| for a license for OpenVMS. However a condition of the license
| is that you can't use a hobbyist license for commercial
| purposes.
| dboreham wrote:
| Things changed.
| dfox wrote:
| HPE has divested VMS Software Inc., so if you want hobbyist
| license you have to go to VSI and not to HPE. And under VSI
| the process of getting the hobyist license is simpler (ie.
| you don't have to be member of anything) and IIRC you can
| even get images of installation media directly from VSI.
| cbm-vic-20 wrote:
| VSI does not have the rights to VMS on VAX, and so it's
| not included in their hobbyist license program.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| Thank you for the information. Do you know if hobbyist
| licenses acquired before the divesture will still be
| honored?
| Zenst wrote:
| Interesting, do you have a link?
|
| I went via https://vmssoftware.com/ and the get Get
| OpenVMS link which yeilds a form that has:
|
| "To help us qualify your application for this evaluation
| release kit, please fill out the following survey. Please
| be advised that community (hobbyist) licenses are not
| currently available, evaluation licenses are provided to
| commercial customers only."
| dfox wrote:
| https://vmssoftware.com/community/community-license/
| nix23 wrote:
| Open has nothing todo with opensource but with "open" abi.
|
| Same with OpenServer from SCO
| selfhoster11 wrote:
| What else are we going to congratulate them for, not
| requiring licensing to open a new TCP socket?
| nix23 wrote:
| >congratulate
|
| Why? Did you do that toward's SCO?
|
| But later you found out about BSD's?
| Zenst wrote:
| True but then it was somewhat a fashion of the time to add
| Open to things (marketing trying to capitalise upon the
| Opensource movement heh). For VMS the history is:
|
| "In July 1992, DEC renamed VAX/VMS to OpenVMS as an
| indication for its support of open systems industry
| standards such as POSIX and Unix compatibility, and to drop
| the VAX connection since a migration to a different
| architecture was underway."
| michaelhoffman wrote:
| It definitely was a fashion then to add "open" to names
| but this predates the wide use of the term "open source".
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source#Open_source_as_
| a_t...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Likewise there is very few Open in POSIX and UNIX
| standards, for a long time, just like with ISO C and C++,
| one really needed to buy them in paper form to read them.
| pdw wrote:
| It's referring to the "Open Systems" hype of the 80s /
| early 90s. The term "open source" became popular only
| much later.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_system_(computing)
| rbanffy wrote:
| If you look at Windows from very, very close, you'll see the
| VMS inside it.
| nix23 wrote:
| No idea why that could be
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cutler
| rbanffy wrote:
| I need to update my Docker images with this. In reality, someone
| needs to write a Hitchhiker's Guide to VM/370, CP and CMS. I
| haven't been able to do much beyond seeing what's on the disks
| and running some sample programs.
| nix23 wrote:
| True,
|
| But Moshix has pretty good videos:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR1ajTWGiUtiAv8X-hpBY7w
| ngcc_hk wrote:
| Vm?
|
| I saw his mvs and that is good. But that assume I alright
| have the mvs3.8 installed and running.
|
| For starter vm not sure any good starting point by him or
| otherwise.
| nix23 wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/c/moshix/search?query=vm
| rwmj wrote:
| License is "interesting":
|
| _The base operating system is IBM 's VM/370 Release 6 operating
| system, the last unlicensed version of VM/370._
|
| Wikipedia has a bit more history about this:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(operating_system)#History
|
| I'm guessing because they didn't have attached copyright notices
| as required in US law at the time they fell into public domain,
| like happened to _It 's a Wonderful Life_ (https://en.wikipedia.o
| rg/wiki/It%27s_a_Wonderful_Life#Owners...).
| skissane wrote:
| > I'm guessing because they didn't have attached copyright
| notices as required in US law at the time they fell into public
| domain
|
| In IBM's case, it wasn't an oversight, it was an intentional
| decision. They intentionally put their core mainframe operating
| systems into the public domain, but they still copyrighted
| certain applications and add-ons. In later versions (like this
| one and its immediate predecessors), most new OS features went
| into copyrighted add-ons only, and the core OS by itself became
| more and more backward and limited. Then eventually, they came
| out with new versions of their operating systems where even the
| core was copyrighted.
|
| They did use other methods of "closing" software than copyright
| - much of MVS was written in a proprietary dialect of PL/I for
| which no compiler was publicly available. So even though they
| shipped the source code to customers, and the source code was
| public domain, nobody could compile it (unless you wrote your
| own compiler). VM/CMS (especially at this stage) was still
| mostly assembler though, so it was easier to modify than MVS
| was.
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(page generated 2022-07-26 23:02 UTC)