[HN Gopher] I raised my kids on the command line and they love it
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       I raised my kids on the command line and they love it
        
       Author : CalRobert
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2022-07-25 20:25 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lifehacker.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lifehacker.com)
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | Geez, it sounds like a really good bonding activity and
       | discussion format they've got going there. I'd be excited too.
       | 
       | My son once asked me as I was walking down the hall, "dad, how do
       | I install Steam?" I walked in his room and he had a very
       | prominently placed terminal open, where I saw that he was typing
       | "sudo apt install steam". I practically core dumped in shock.
       | "Whoa buddy! Wow!" and of course that's what he was going for,
       | since he has the affinity-vibe concept absolutely locked down and
       | has had this gift ever since birth as far as I can tell.
       | 
       | Half or even most of that typing was just to synchronize with
       | dad's values and build affinity. I respect it and I also, knowing
       | that it's not _exactly_ 100% terminal love, don't push the
       | terminal too hard unless it's related to a specific goal of his.
       | 
       | Meanwhile my other kids get up and leave for a snack as soon as I
       | open the terminal on their desktops (it saves me time, they get
       | that). But they are on the other hand really good at introducing
       | COTS thinking into our household. :-) Sometimes you gotta go with
       | the social tech bell curve. Just go buy the thing that does what
       | you want! Duh! And I agree, you can define this as rationality
       | itself in fact. Tinkering, scripting...irrational in some ways
       | for sure, so good thing we have other ways of discussing its
       | value.
       | 
       | Speaking of uh, typing, I was just today remembering one of the
       | most scary experiences my kids and I have ever had, playing this
       | roguelike game together...
       | 
       | http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php/AliensRL
        
         | dvfjsdhgfv wrote:
         | > sudo apt install steam
         | 
         | Kudos to the parent for teaching them the modern form; I still
         | see people using apt-get for no reason.
        
       | CalRobert wrote:
       | I'm surprised how many people are dismissive of learning the
       | command line like it's obsolete. I still use the command line
       | constantly and would be lost without it, and I'd like my kids to
       | understand what's going on better than they can with a desktop
       | environment.
       | 
       | I have a 4 year old and found an old Raspberry pi earlier and
       | decided to hook it up to the TV. She was thrilled (and spent
       | plenty of time using a keyboard and mouse for the first time. She
       | liked it! And we don't hide her from technology)
       | 
       | Just because we have calculators doesn't mean learning to do math
       | on paper is a bad idea.
       | 
       | I was only slightly older than her in the late 80's when we got a
       | 286 and I learned to do `cd games` `dir` `some_game.exe` etc. and
       | I learned the very basics of what a file/directory structure
       | (something a lot of young adults don't understand) is, among
       | other things. Some games meant editing autoexec.bat and that was
       | helpful for understanding system config. Obviously I'm not
       | looking for autoexec now but just understanding that such a
       | config exists is useful.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _the very basics of what a file /directory structure
         | (something a lot of young adults don't understand)_
         | 
         | My dad is confused by the false-skeuomorphism of the word
         | "file". He thinks of them as containers, since this is how
         | "file" is used in the paper sense ("hand me the file on Mrs.
         | Anderson"). So when he's describing something on the computer,
         | he will often refer to a folder as a "file", which can be
         | confusing even though I know he uses this term in this way.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | True, and yet computer files can be containers as well.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | In other news: I taught my children how to hook up the buggy to
       | the horse. Then I pulled out my great grandfather's Model T and
       | worked them through how to adjust the spark and planning their
       | stops because it didn't have normal brake pads. Then I taught
       | them how to drive stick in a car that requires double-clutching
       | because it doesn't have synchromesh...
       | 
       | I honestly don't "get" this need to raise our children with a
       | state of technology like we had when we were kids. My kids use
       | tablets, and when they want/need to use a full powered computer
       | I'll just show them how to use one.
        
         | olddustytrail wrote:
         | The real problem with your analogy is that the command line is
         | more advanced than the GUI. That's why advanced users use it
         | and beginners do not.
         | 
         | To borrow an expression: reading and writing is more advanced
         | than pointing and grunting.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | decafninja wrote:
         | I'll be the odd man out amongst the responses and agree with
         | you.
         | 
         | Not everyone needs/wants to be a software engineer or other
         | kind of computer savvy person. The majority of people get along
         | with life just fine these days with just a smartphone and/or
         | tablet as their only computing device.
         | 
         | Now the caveat to this is, what if your child is the next
         | potential super rockstar ninja pirate 100x SWE in waiting? I
         | suppose there is nothing wrong with trying to get them
         | interested in computers.
         | 
         | I kinda wonder how I would raise my own future kid when I hear
         | stories of superstars in various realms ranging from musicians*
         | to Formula1 drivers, etc. Most of them started extremely young
         | - young enough that the decision to get them involved was their
         | parents', not their own.
         | 
         | * I had a friend who was an absolute kickass cellist. However
         | he claimed he would never advance beyond the ranks of a school
         | music teacher because he started the instrument at age 8
         | whereas the real talent start before age 5. It boggled my mind.
        
         | CalRobert wrote:
         | The difference here is that the command line is still a
         | valuable tool. It's not obsolete. And your kids may not be
         | interested in learning how computers work if they've never
         | needed to figure them out to get to what they want.
        
         | s_dev wrote:
         | >In other news: I taught my children how to hook up the buggy
         | to the horse. Then I pulled out my great grandfather's Model T
         | and worked them through how to adjust the spark and planning
         | their stops because it didn't have normal brake pads.
         | 
         | You joke but a lot of learning comes from things like this.
         | 
         | >I honestly don't "get" this need to raise our children with a
         | state of technology like we had when we were kids
         | 
         | It's basically like if I want to understand unix better -- I
         | actually find tutorials written in the 70/80s much better than
         | some of the stuff you see on YouTube or more modern tutorials
         | -- even with all there inaccuracies in terms of getting to grip
         | the core concepts it often gets straight to the point.
        
           | omnibrain wrote:
           | >It's basically like if I want to understand unix better -- I
           | actually find tutorials written in the 70/80s much better
           | than some of the stuff you see on YouTube or more modern
           | tutorials
           | 
           | Or even the 90ies/early 2000.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32013779#32015159
        
         | deanmen wrote:
         | xmonad came out in 2007, it's not that old
         | 
         | display manager vs typing `startx` on login isn't old vs modern
         | either
        
       | boberoni wrote:
       | Raising a child to use computers via command line is very
       | interesting.
       | 
       | I would want my child to be tech-savvy, but most parents I see
       | make the mistake of just giving their kids an iPad. I think it's
       | very destructive to their attention span.
       | 
       | On the other hand, having a cheap laptop with only access to TUIs
       | could be used for improving reading skills and tech literacy. Add
       | some TUI games like the good ol' days of BASIC, and it can be
       | just as entertaining as an iPad.
        
         | dzhiurgis wrote:
         | If iPad had ability to act like a screen for RPI that would
         | awesome - portable, battery powered, versatile, etc.
        
           | maicro wrote:
           | I've installed noVNC on a Pi before, didn't try accessing it
           | through an iPad and I don't recall if I was using desktop or
           | just terminal, BUT, I think something like noVNC could get
           | you close to iPad-as-RPI-screen. Add in some VPN
           | functionality and you can keep the Pi running at home, but
           | use the iPad anywhere you can get online (though now you're
           | getting into diminishing returns).
        
           | vincent-manis wrote:
           | I use my iPad Pro as a remote terminal to an RPi 400 and an
           | Odroid N2+. Both of these machines are running xrdp, and I
           | use the Microsoft Remote Desktop client on the iPad. RDP
           | seems somewhat faster than VNC.
        
           | tingol wrote:
           | You mean like a laptop?
        
       | enriquto wrote:
       | In my case, it started wonderfully, until they learned that they
       | could just launch firefox from the terminal, and proceed to
       | stupid prank videos on youtube. When they log-in, all that they
       | see is an xterm (no menus, no icons). And they just arrow-
       | up+enter to run their previous command that is invariably
       | firefox. I tried disabling youtube on the hosts file and let them
       | figure it out, but apparently is too large a step to make yet.
       | Sigh.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | Don't despair, you're on the right track. You just need to keep
         | erecting increasingly elaborate artificial obstacles, one tiny
         | increment at a time, and by the time they're teenagers they'll
         | be manually linking together their own custom OS from scratch
         | every time they want to watch stupid prank videos on their
         | homemade reimplementation of Firefox.
        
           | nominusllc wrote:
           | mitm their requests and make everything render backwards or
           | in 144p. Make it interesting. My parents would give me
           | challenges like taking the cord to the computer, and they'd
           | find increasingly elaborate improvised power cables. It took
           | my mom 5 years to realize why the treadmill only worked
           | 'sometimes'.
        
       | stevenalowe wrote:
       | That's the saddest thing I've read in a long time. Children
       | excited about a mouse ... because they've never used an iPad.
        
       | pomatic wrote:
       | (2013) -- it would be interesting to know what became of those
       | kids and where they are at today.
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | Some say they are still stuck in VIM after dad wouldn't tell
         | them how to exit it.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | My kid is never more fascinated than when she sees me inspecting
       | HTML or using the terminal. I wouldn't ever push a CLI on her,
       | but she is genuinely more interested in learning about computers
       | when she's staring at a screen of text she doesn't understand.
       | We've started doing an HTML tutorial, and her initial enthusiasm
       | seems to have generated enough momentum that she's now excited
       | about what we can do using these previously-daunting text-based
       | tools.
        
       | remarkEon wrote:
       | I also plan on doing this, but haven't had the time yet to put
       | together the actual "plan" per se, other than lots of raspberry
       | Pis and a screen to connect to in the family room.
       | 
       | My main motivation for doing this, I suppose, is that being a
       | millennial I got to straddle the analog-to-digital divide growing
       | up, and I think that experience path with technology is healthy
       | because you tend to view it as a tool and less so the basis for
       | your entire existence.
        
         | txbuck wrote:
         | I don't plan on having kids of my own, but if life finds a way
         | (or I end up with custody of a relative's children) I figured I
         | would similarly put together some kind of loose "curriculum" to
         | guide them along if they took an interest in computing. Never
         | actually planned it out - is a pretty large domain of knowledge
         | to cover for something I don't currently plan on using, but I
         | wouldn't be surprised if there are already pre-existing FOSS
         | resources along those lines.
         | 
         | Anybody know of any projects in the same vein?
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-25 23:02 UTC)