[HN Gopher] Diet and its effects on the gut biome in the pathoph...
___________________________________________________________________
Diet and its effects on the gut biome in the pathophysiology of
mental disorders
Author : flashfaffe2
Score : 154 points
Date : 2022-07-25 07:20 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| ryukoposting wrote:
| One time, someone told my girlfriend she should try Keto to help
| with her Epilepsy. Maybe they were on to something, I guess.
| memcg wrote:
| Per this link.
|
| https://charliefoundation.org/am-i-a-candidate/keto-for-epil...
|
| "Ketogenic Therapies and brain surgery are the only known cures
| for Epilepsy. Half of the people with epilepsy who try the diet
| have a seizure reduction of at least 50%. Up to 25% become
| completely seizure free. In the sections below, we explain how
| Ketogenic Therapies compare to anti-epileptic medications, how
| keto's mechanisms are thought to affect the body, and stories
| from a few of the thousands of families who have had amazing
| results by implementing keto for epilepsy."
| fhrow4484 wrote:
| Apparently it's helpful to more than epilepsy, from a study
| this month: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/diagnosis-
| diet/20220...
|
| > Symptoms of depression and psychosis improved in all 28
| patients who followed the diet for longer than two weeks, with
| improvements becoming noticeable within three weeks or less.
| 43% of patients achieved clinical remission, and 64% were
| discharged from the hospital on less psychiatric medication.
|
| It's amazing that results were seen in just 3 weeks
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I mean no harm no foul, I too have heard mostly anecdotal
| accounts of diet and various health conditions - migraines,
| allergies, ADHD, etc.
|
| There's plenty of science out there but it's still early.
| gnarcoregrizz wrote:
| Check out the LGIT (low glycemic index treatment), aka "the
| south beach diet". It's a more relaxed low-carb diet (80g/day),
| which has shown similar efficacy to keto for seizure control.
| It makes it much easier to feel somewhat normal at restaurants
| and the dinner table when out with people.
|
| https://www.epilepsy.com/treatment/dietary-therapies/low-gly...
|
| One interesting thing about these low-carb diet therapies is
| that they can result in long-term seizure control even after
| discontinuing the diet. They are worth trying imo. However,
| I'll personally attest to the fact that they are not a silver
| bullet.
| digdugdirk wrote:
| The Ketogenic diet is actually fully effective in many
| patients. Interestingly, its more commonly used as a "last
| resort" when patients don't respond to pharmaceutical
| interventions instead of a first line of treatment.
|
| https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/7156-ketoge...
| lancesells wrote:
| That's terrible to hear that doctors would try
| pharmaceuticals before a relatively simple diet change.
| dev_tty01 wrote:
| I agree that on the surface, it sounds dreadful. The
| problem is that many doctors have found through experience
| that patient compliance with a daily pill is much better
| than with dietary changes. If a doctor wants to actually
| help a patient, the treatment that a patient will actually
| do becomes the most effective by default.
|
| Having said that, I do think that doctors need to be aware
| of and make sure the alternatives are discussed with the
| patient. The paternal MD attitude of just tell the patient
| what they think the patient needs to hear should not be
| tolerated. If I ever get that vibe from a doc I move on and
| find someone who will respect me as a patient.
| parineum wrote:
| I suspect patients feel the same.
| snarf21 wrote:
| I think that happens because that is what _most_ patients
| want. They don 't want to give up pizza and alcohol. Give
| me a magic pill instead so I can do what I want.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| Keto is not a simple diet change. It is very difficult to
| stick to and comes with a lot of prohibitions. Adherence is
| low and side effects do happen.
| aszantu wrote:
| Keto worked for me only when I cut out carbs completely,
| I eventually switched to zero carb because it's easier to
| maintain. As long as I allowed myself anything carb, I'd
| got on a binge-frenzy, even with dairy... willpower is a
| terrible thing.
| worker_person wrote:
| I'm involved in many support forums.
|
| A few patterns I've noticed.
|
| The people who have been mostly managing their conditions
| via diet without understanding whats happening. Basically
| they eat healthy, and it mostly works.
|
| People who love food / don't want to cook healthy and
| refuse to acknowledge the possibility that's causing
| problems.
|
| People who say they eat healthy but really don't. (Salad
| once a week) Or a variation, people who ate a salad, didn't
| get better and claim diets don't work).
|
| The ones who are at deaths door and are finally desperate
| enough to try anything.
|
| Actually following a strict diet like KETO / AIP. Paying
| close attention to trigger foods, etc. These ones often can
| reduce or eliminate medication.
|
| Learning to be honest with yourself about food is one of
| the major challenges. Giving up various food addictions can
| be brutal.
| gnarcoregrizz wrote:
| It's a last resort because adults can't reliably stick to the
| diet and doctors know it. People don't even stick to
| medication very well. It's really only prescribed in kids
| with severe forms of genetic epilepsy because it works well
| for those conditions, and their parents control what they
| eat. It's a lot easier to take a pill than to change your
| entire lifestyle.
|
| Unfortunately, keto doesn't always control seizures either.
| Pills still work better than diet for some people.
| david_l_lin wrote:
| It's interesting that we've become so obsessed with the gut
| microbiome even though stool only captures a tiny fraction of the
| composition of the gut.
|
| Similarly, the salivary oral microbiome has also been correlated
| with mental disorders, cognitive health, is modulated by diet,
| and plays a major role in systemic health. And saliva is
| objectively easier to collect. Instead of jumping straight into
| collecting poop, we should be collecting our spit instead!
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-022-01922-0
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94498-6
| jklinger410 wrote:
| I have a chicken and egg issue with microbiome stuff. Does your
| microbiome look different because you are suffering from an
| issue, or does your microbiome looking different cause the
| issue.
|
| Kind of like when an auto-immune disorder is causing
| inflammation. You can treat the inflammation, but you aren't
| treating the real problem.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Yes, I can assure you it is bidirectional, since my mental
| stress certainly affected my gut.
| david_l_lin wrote:
| well, for the most part in healthcare we treat symptoms not
| causes.
|
| cavities caused by acid producing bacteria? drill and fill
|
| gum disease caused by oral dysbiosis? bone and gum grafts
|
| diabetes from autoimmunity? insulin
|
| high cholesterol from... anything? statins
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| A great reminder that you are the only one truly held
| responsible for "figuring out" your health.
| flashfaffe2 wrote:
| Role of diet and its effects on the gut microbiome in the
| pathophysiology of mental disorder
| hrdwdmrbl wrote:
| What's the tl;dr? What does it say we should eat?
| bjoli wrote:
| I only skimmed the article, but many sections, with the glaring
| exception being diet and epilepsy, mentioned a Mediterranean
| style diet, and looking closer at the studies cited it seems
| like the Mediterranean diet proposed by Low-Carb Satan Ancel
| Keys.
|
| But I didn't read it too closely. One of my favourite YouTubers
| just released a video on the subject:
| https://youtu.be/FleMtTEEYlc
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I like that guy too. One of the few nutrition youtubers I can
| find who seem open minded.
| robg wrote:
| I'm a neuroscientist and have struggled with my (mental) health
| for 30 years. With the pandemic I realized how much foods affect
| how I feel every day. Going more than 6 months without eating out
| I became attuned to the differences of meals I prep and what goes
| into them.
|
| The best explanation I've heard is food is like explicit
| instructions for how our bodies and brains perform through our
| DNA. Gut health is the engine of the biological machine humming
| or sputtering accordingly. The research is out there on the
| differences between food types and impacts of processed foods.
| The Pollan mantra still still sticks with me: Eat (whole) foods.
| Not too much. Mostly plants. I've added: Sleep better. Move more.
| Stress less. (To eat well.)
| boplicity wrote:
| It's not just the food that determines how our body reacts;
| it's also the microbiome, which produces a wide array of
| compounds that can enter our bloodstream, and possibly cross
| the blood-brain barrier. The microbiome is an incredible
| collection of microbes that is necessary for our health, and
| yet mostly a mystery at this point. The foods we eat have a
| direct impact on which microbes thrive, or don't thrive, in our
| gut -- which is a siginificant part of how our diet affects our
| gut health.
| pstuart wrote:
| Dr. Rhonda Patrick talks about diet resistant starch feeding
| the gut itself. Potato starch is a cheap and easy way to
| augment that need (YMMV).
| boplicity wrote:
| You microbiome is more akin to a forest than a farm. You
| can't just plant potatoes (or whatever) and assume that it
| will get balanced. Sometimes things like this do help, but
| sometimes they don't. Fertilizer makes plants grow, but it
| can have unintended consequences. (For example, runoff
| leading to bacterial blooms in a watershed.) The gut is an
| ecology, hence the difficulty of determining one-size-fits
| all fixes to a complex ecosystem.
| worker_person wrote:
| Best thing I ever did for health was a 30 day elimination diet.
| I felt much better, and could easily tell which foods bothered
| me when I reintroduced them.
|
| I would eat a roll and 20 minutes later I was feeling hot and
| flushed and irritated. Just like I had been for years. A slice
| of pizza is basically a day of feeling horrible.
| adinb wrote:
| Have you heard of the FODMAP diet? It can really help with
| IBS. You start by eliminating all foods with FODMAPS[1] for
| six weeks and then gradually reintroduce foods from each of
| the FODMAP categories. It's recommended to have a
| dietician/nutritionist help with the temporary diet. It was
| pioneered by Monash University. [
| https://www.monashfodmap.com ]
|
| [1] the FODMAP acronym: Fermenatble
| Oligo-,Di-,Monosaccharides And Polyols
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| The FODMAP diet help me understand that my condition was
| genetic.
| Natsu wrote:
| I've read about that, but it's really hard to find an
| example diet and it's not like most of those things appear
| on the nutrition labels.
|
| Also they say not to avoid all of those long term, just
| temporarily.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Deets on the diet?
|
| Was this a self-directed or clinician (nutritionist / MD /
| ...) programme?
|
| I'm presuming this began with a minimum baseline to which you
| added foods over time?
| peytoncasper wrote:
| I could be wrong, but I think OP meant, choose something to
| eliminate and do it for 30 days. Then choose to introduce
| it back in if you wish. This allows you to observe the
| effect it has on you.
|
| I did this with added sugars. I could definitely feel the
| cravings to not only eat more as you added it back in but
| also the baseline cravings to just have some amount of
| sugar in your body. It is very eye opening.
|
| You also become very aware of how much sugar is in
| everything.
| elmomle wrote:
| To clarify, the thing one eliminates is typically a
| molecule or a food group--the most common are probably
| (in no order) added sugar, gluten, fried foods, processed
| foods, dairy, and red meat. One can eliminate any or all
| of those, typically for a month (gives your gut time to
| change), and then, if you want to, experiment with adding
| things back in.
|
| A nice thing about the gut microbiome is that it's self-
| reinforcing, both psychologically and gustatorily--as in,
| once one's body realizes a food doesn't help, one tend to
| both think "why would I make myself feel like that?", and
| to find the experience of eating/drinking it less
| pleasurable, alien, or even disgusting.
| browningstreet wrote:
| An elimination diet is a protocol where you start with a
| baseline of "safest" foods and exclude everything for a
| while, and then.. in an orderly fashion, start to re-
| introduce foods while noting how you respond or change in
| light of those additions. It's a protocol, one you can
| get from a nutritionist or dietician or by searching
| online. And the food lists can be adapted to people with
| varying eating modalities.
| worker_person wrote:
| plain chicken. broccoli and sweet potatoes. All plain. No
| spices, no oils. I wanted a baseline. Water or green tea
| only.
|
| This was self directed. I was in horrific agony every
| moment of every day, stuck in bed 20 hours a day.
|
| I slowly added things back in, most things caused issues.
| Eventually I realized I was just re-inventing the AIP diet.
|
| Few months later I was out kayaking every weekend.
| chasebank wrote:
| I'll add my anecdote. Nightshade vegetables, in
| particular the potato, wreak havoc on my body. Took me
| years to figure out. I didn't even know what a nightshade
| was. Every few months I'll start to question my sanity
| and I'm sure potatoes won't bother me. Without fail,
| every time, rashes, pain, insomnia, deep depressive
| thoughts, all within 8 hours of consuming potatoes. It's
| truly crazy. I still have a hard time believing it. Funny
| enough, I grew up in Idaho, can't eat potatoes. Sweet
| potatoes it is!
| surfpel wrote:
| > I was in horrific agony every moment of every day,
| stuck in bed 20 hours a day
|
| Surely not as a result of the diet?
| dredmorbius wrote:
| If something you're eating is making you sick, then not
| eating that thing will make a tremendous difference in
| your health and quality of life.
|
| "If you haven't got your health, you haven't got
| anything."
|
| -- Tyrone Rugen
| swores wrote:
| That is indeed quite obvious, but parent comment was
| asking about a specific person's situation, not whether
| food is possible or making somebody sick generally or
| whether it's bad to be sick.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| I'm not OP.
|
| But I've found myself occasionally faced with food-
| related unpleasantness, and it's remarkably debilitating.
|
| YMMV
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Thanks.
|
| Rice is often mentioned as another low-inflammation /
| -irritation food. Though I've heard through a friend of
| someone with a rice allergy --- by an east-Asian, to
| boot!
|
| I'd look at minimising complexity whilst achieving
| nutritional sufficiency (macros, vitamins, essential
| oils) and take it from there, I suppose.
| getcrunk wrote:
| Maybe he meant carnivore. U start only with meat, then add
| stuff back in slowly.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| I'm doing something similar, but I'm using meal
| replacements. Huel is my choice, but there are a lot of
| others that seem just as good. I basically switched to Huel
| only for 2 weeks. Then started re-introducing other foods
| to see how I felt.
|
| It became very obvious, very quickly that a few foods
| (mostly dairy) were causing me major issues.
| carapace wrote:
| I'm old enough to remember when this sort of thing was "woo-
| woo", so it's good to see it getting a grounding in solid
| scientific investigation. "Let your food be your medicine." and
| all that, eh?
|
| Historically our microbiome and the external environment must
| have been in a kind of dialog: available food would be a pretty
| direct function of the local ecosystem, and our feces, which
| are something like 80% microorganisms, would of course be
| integrated back into the soil. (It's not really that
| surprising, from this POV, that our bellies would have brains.)
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Hi neuroscientis, maybe you should look into the genetics of
| you own, and others, gut metabolism. I did and it change my
| life. (Disabled with Scizoaffective Bipolar Disorder and
| Ankylosing Spondylitis).
|
| I found out I am a FUT2 non-secretor through 23andMe, unusual
| for a European Caucasian. So basically I cannot fight of gut
| microbes like you heart farmer folk.
|
| Secretor Genotype (FUT2 gene) Is Strongly Associated with the
| Composition of Bifidobacteria in the Human Intestine
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
|
| Human genetic variation and the gut microbiome in disease
| https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg.2017.63
|
| Since FUT2 releases fucose (Not fructose) I decided to see what
| foods contained fucose and try eating those. Turned out it is
| very high in seaweed and mushrooms, which is interesting
| because I have Sami heritage. Also the spuds that changes my
| gut microbiome were important as well, this meant reducing my
| short chain PUFAs as low as possible because of my FADS1 and
| FADS2 genetics.
|
| Eating those regularly turned my IBD into IBNormal and it
| helped my brain and inflammation as well.
|
| So "Eat (whole) foods. Not too much. Mostly plants" is quite
| wrong for me, genetically. In fact, when I was a (good) vegan
| and vegetarian my HDL was 30 with hyperlipidemia! Eating kind
| of keto with only seafood pushed my Hal up to 55.
|
| As a neuroscientist you should know that Mood Disorders are
| highly polygenic so there is no same cause and therefore no
| same cure for anyone.
|
| So can you please start looking into personalized medicine so
| people like me do not have to live in constant hell? Thanks.
| amelius wrote:
| > Since FUT2 releases fuctose (Not fructose)
|
| Fuctose has no wikipedia page. Could you provide some
| sources?
|
| > I found out I am a FUT2 non-secretor through 23andMe,
| unusual for a European Caucasian.
|
| Wikipedia says:
|
| > Approximately 20% of Caucasians are non-secretors due to
| the G428A (rs601338) and C571T (rs492602?) nonsense mutations
| in FUT2
|
| 20% doesn't seem extremely unusual.
| PlatinumHarp wrote:
| I think it's a typo, it should be Fucose not Fuctose.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Yes, I fixed the spell check from fructose to fuctose, but
| not all the way to fucose.
|
| 20%, uncommon, unusual, whatever. It is not rare but it is
| not usual.
|
| Still 20% of the people might be eating a diet that is
| wrong for them. But I suppose you think this does not
| matter? I mean are you denying the science behind this? Are
| you denying it helped me?
| pieter_mj wrote:
| Fuctose yourself! Kidding of course. I think there's a
| lot of mental health to gain by following a personalized
| diet taking into account your own body's "specifications"
| as it were.
|
| I'm guessing current western high carb/low nutritional
| value diet is detrimental to mental health.
| amelius wrote:
| I was just interested and checking facts, not trying to
| be judgemental. Thanks for the correction.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| As you can understand and see I am on a razors edge when
| it comes to talking about this stuff, and even more so
| with this in the medical field. It was really the "20% is
| not unusual" part that skewered me in the brain because
| before I posted this no one here probably heard of this
| gene and its strong effect on the microbiome and diet.
|
| And now I just want to add, for your interest, that Mood
| Disorders are not fundamentally neurological, I am sorry
| to say, but in fact they are immune disorders which
| affect neurology. You would do the mentally ill a huge
| favor by sending your patients to rheumatology for care.
|
| It has been 50 years since my mother was diagnose with
| Bipolar Disorder and here I am now, with the same issues,
| and they are pretty much prescribing the same meds and
| looking at it in the same way. So whenever I meet a
| neurologist I have to express my frustration because you
| need to think about mood disorders in a radically new way
| if something is to change and being nice did not change
| anything. And now, when I find things out that help me I
| get no help from my doctors, just a "glad that worked for
| you" and the cold shoulder when I ask for more testing.
| mandmandam wrote:
| > Mood Disorders are not fundamentally neurological, I am
| sorry to say, but in fact they are immune disorders which
| affect neurology
|
| This is interesting to me, thank you. The gut-brain link
| is fascinating.
|
| Have you read "The Body Keeps the Score"? There are some
| absolutely shocking stats in that book about the
| correlation between early childhood trauma and mood
| disorders. You may find the stuff about EMDR and
| reconnecting with the body interesting. That said, BPD is
| often an outlier; as in, it doesn't respond the same as
| most others.
|
| ... I'm not an expert. But, I think the author of that
| book would agree with you on the difficulty of presenting
| new information to doctors/neurologists/psychiatrists. It
| seems to require a lot of resilience.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| Your are welcome.
|
| Yes, I have read Mate's book. I assure you my fcked up
| childhood was one part of the problem but my genetic risk
| combined with a "farmer's diet" is a greater factor for
| me, even more so in relation to my cardiovascular and
| autoimmune health.
|
| I do have a feeling that genetics is even more important
| than trauma and that the correlation between the two is
| found because of the genetics.
| limpbizkitfan wrote:
| There are very many theories regarding what is and isn't
| a contributing mechanism to mental health. Nutrition is
| one thing, when I ate less I lost weight and had less
| fatigue and depression. But that happened in concert with
| treatment aligned with the serotonin/norepinephrine
| signaling theory of depression, and it worked for me, as
| it has very many others in regular drug studies.
|
| I don't think it's a good idea to dismiss medicine right
| away but it was an essential 15% to the 85% of my work
| putting in place methods and giving myself a chance to
| change.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| > There are very many theories regarding what is and
| isn't a contributing mechanism to mental health
|
| That was pretty much the whole point of my comment. Why
| are there many theories? Because their are are many
| causes. Until we start looking at every one individually
| no one will get well.
|
| And I am in no way dismissing medicine, I only want
| doctors to start practicing it again.
| bckr wrote:
| > But I suppose you think this does not matter
|
| That's an ungenerous interpretation when otherwise the GP
| demonstrated curiosity about your provided information.
| It's easily read as "this may be important to more people
| than you implied".
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| The statement "20% doesn't seem extremely unusual" is a
| total write off of those 20% of people. You see, he is
| looking for a single case of disorder and there is not
| one. This is frustrating and ignores the huge genetic
| diversity in humanity.
|
| As someone with Inuit heritage this is harmful to me. For
| 80% of people a vegetarian diet will be helpful. But for
| 20% it is probably not helpful. But all you will read in
| the news is how a vegetarian diet is the only diet to
| cure heart disease, etc...
|
| Inulin is in every food now because it is "healthy". Do
| you know what inulin does to my gut? But this is one of
| those "healthy" foods.
| loceng wrote:
| If you haven't yet it's a good idea to do a microbiome stool
| test kit to see if there is any overgrowth of bad bacteria or
| yeast in your GI tract, as well an Igg food sensitivity
| test/food panel for 200+ foods to see if there are any common
| foods you're regularly or irregularly eating that may be
| causing inflammation, irritating your GI tract.
|
| Also important to note, many plants have toxins in them to
| prevent animals eating them, and that most research studies on
| red meat are greatly flawed.
| rewgs wrote:
| IgG tests are junk and meaningless.
| rewgs wrote:
| Uh, why exactly am I being downvoted for this? ^
|
| IgG tests are objectively bad science, used to scam people
| into thinking they have allergies when they don't. IgG will
| basically just give you a list of what foods you've eaten
| lately. They are completely and utterly useless.
|
| IgE tests are what matter. I have dozens of food allergies
| and unfortunately have had to learn more about allergies
| and the immune system than I ever imagined. I know what I'm
| talking about here.
| tpush wrote:
| 1) IgG food tests are not scientifically validated.
|
| 2) GI irritation is separate from inflammation, and many
| common food stuffs that may be causing irritation generally
| decrease inflammation.
|
| 3) Those "plant toxins" are either deactivated by processing
| (cooking etc.) or are in such low quantities that there's no
| negative effect, and most of the time even a slightly
| positive one.
|
| 4) "Most research studies" on red meat are not flawed.
|
| Edit: Formatting.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I do believe cooking food neutralizes most of those toxins.
|
| Anyway, I do believe (citation needed) that food sensitivity
| is also correlated to gut biome, and that some sensitivities
| can be overcome with dietary and/or gut biome changes.
| adrian_b wrote:
| While the toxins that are proteins are usually inactivated
| by cooking, some of the other substances require additional
| steps, which were always used in traditional cooking, but
| not all modern cooks are aware of them.
|
| For example, all the kinds of seeds, including all kinds of
| dry legumes and all kinds of nuts, require soaking in water
| for many hours and the water must be dumped and they must
| be washed before cooking, in order to remove as much of the
| phytic acid as possible.
|
| The soaking in water is much more efficient if the water is
| acidulated, e.g. with lemon juice or with vinegar.
|
| Another example is with the vegetables rich in oxalic acid,
| e.g. spinach, which must be boiled in several stages. After
| each stage, the boiling water must be dumped and replaced
| by fresh water, in order to remove as much of the oxalic
| acid as possible.
| MichaelCollins wrote:
| > _For example, all the kinds of seeds, including all
| kinds of dry legumes and all kinds of nuts, require
| soaking in water for many hours and the water must be
| dumped and they must be washed before cooking, in order
| to remove as much of the phytic acid as possible._
|
| Or you can just... not do any of that. Eat raw almonds
| and shit out phytic acid. What's the problem?
| groestl wrote:
| Can you provide a little more insight/some links on the last
| paragraph?
| geewee wrote:
| > and that most research studies on red meat are greatly
| flawed.
|
| Care to elaborate on this? Preferably with sources.
| lambdaba wrote:
| You might be interested in this document from Credit
| Suisse: https://research-doc.credit-
| suisse.com/docView?language=ENG&...
|
| There are more than 450 references to saturated fat in the
| document, but I found this phrase early on:
|
| > Our view is that saturated fats intake is at worst
| neutral for CVD risks and the current 10% upper limit
| should be lifted.
|
| Apologies if there was some other property of red meat that
| you had in mind, although I've been convinced from people
| commenting studies purportedly linking red meat and say,
| colon cancer, are just based on poor quality
| epidemiological data. And, while there was some sort of
| intuitive sense in which one could imagine the saturated
| fat eaten with meat/dairy products would mechanically clog
| arteries, I don't see anything like this with red meat. In
| fact, we are made of it, why would eating it have a
| deleterious effect? To the contrary, it seems that
| abstaining from meat often quite quickly causes iron
| deficiency/disregulation, B12 deficiency and so on.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| I don't have any sources for you, but a lot of people have
| been revisiting saturated fat and cholesterol, and it
| appears that they probably aren't as bad for you as we once
| thought.
| adrian_b wrote:
| While moderate amounts of saturated fats are not bad,
| there is no doubt that it is recommended that in the
| eaten fat the most abundant fatty acid must be oleic acid
| (i.e. the fat must contain mostly MUFA, mono-unsaturated
| fatty acids).
|
| The reason is simply that oleic acid is the most abundant
| fatty acid in human fat. When the ingested fat consists
| mostly of oleic acid, it can be used as such, while when
| the ingested fat contains either mostly saturated fats,
| like many animal fats or mostly poly-unsaturated fatty
| acids, e.g. linoleic acid, like most cheap vegetable
| oils, the ingested fatty acids must be converted by the
| liver into the fatty acids preferred inside the human
| body, so that is extra work for the liver and the liver
| becomes less efficient at old ages. If the liver does not
| succeed to convert all the ingested fatty acids that
| should have been converted, than the composition of the
| fat used for various purposes in the body may be
| suboptimal.
|
| Examples of foods with optimal fatty acid composition are
| olive oil, high-oleic sunflower oil (not classic
| sunflower oil, which contains mostly linoleic acid),
| hazelnuts, almonds, pistachios, cashews, peanuts.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| What test do you recommend and why?
|
| Last time I googled these tests I got so many results it
| seems like a small bullshit industry.
|
| Gut bacteria is obviously important but I'm not sure the
| results of these tests are useful.
| robg wrote:
| https://www.nowleap.com/the-patented-mediator-release-test/
|
| Importantly, should be ordered by a nutritionist and
| requires a blood draw. It's got some challenges but overall
| helped me when paired with a restricted diet. Easy to
| relapse though, 2-3 months versus a lifetime of eating
| behaviors.
| whyenot wrote:
| > many plants have toxins in them to prevent animals eating
| them
|
| Almost all of the plants humans eat have been domesticated
| and bred to no longer produce these compounds in the parts
| that we eat. For other plant parts, such as fruit, being full
| of sugar and tasty is an adaptation because it helps with
| dispersing the plant's seeds. If this is something that
| interests you I recommend reading 'With Bitter Herbs they
| shall eat it: Chemical ecology and the origins of human diet
| and medicine.' by Timothy Johns. It was published 30 years
| ago and is essentially his PhD dissertation but quite
| readable and still one of the best resources on this subject.
| robg wrote:
| Did the food sensitivity test (MRT) and helped a bit but also
| learned how immune responses can become associated with foods
| we eat a lot. Overall gut health and inflammation is so
| obvious, the engine strains with bad fuel, but very difficult
| to live it when pasta and pizza and burgers are staples.
|
| Why I think Pollan's mantra is great, he's not absolutist
| about any meat. Just mix and match, which we would in nature.
| It's really hard to catch a consistent meat source.
| robg wrote:
| Sugar and Candida was really eye opening - it's the fungal
| overgrowth driving my addiction to sweet stuff.
| Wyoming23 wrote:
| > Igg food sensitivity test/food panel for 200+ foods
|
| Last I looked into this, the science didn't really support
| this interpretation and in fact may have been directionally
| opposite.
|
| Iirc in layman's terms, a "positive" result in that test
| didn't really mean "immune response" it just meant your body
| had the corresponding chemical to break down the food. What
| you had eaten in the past week could alter the results of the
| test and the results weren't predictive of foods that would
| cause digestive issues.
| polskibus wrote:
| How does this study relate to fairly recent topic of lack of
| evidence that low serotonine levels causes depression ? Should
| the diet metaanalysis be redone after that study ?
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32160703
| pygy_ wrote:
| In the first table the "eating disorders" entry makes references
| to "Kleinman et al. 2015" and to "Morita et al. 2015". Neither
| can be found in the bibiography. I couldn't find a paper by some
| Kleinman on the topic between 2014 and 2016 (https://scholar.goog
| le.com/scholar?start=0&q=author:kleinman...). Morita wrote this (
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...).
|
| Neither the linked article nor Morita's mention Serguei
| Fetissov's pioneering work on the topic though, which is
| disappointing, given that he and his colleagues have long
| documented the link between _E. Coli_ , the immune system and
| eating disorders.
|
| The gist is that _E. Coli_ produces a protein (CLBP) that mimics
| a feeding-related hormone (IIRC melanocortin). That protein ends
| up in the blood stream and can bind the corresponding receptors.
| It can also generate an immune response, and these antibodies are
| cross-reactive, causing autoimmunity and complicating the story.
| bluechair wrote:
| Do you have any links to his work?
| pygy_ wrote:
| Plucking from Google scholar you can check
|
| this https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.222658699
|
| and this https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/am-
| pdf/10.1002/eat.22531
|
| among many others...
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=7%2C39&q=ser.
| ..
|
| A key point is that the same anomalies are seen in anorexia,
| binge eating and bulimia.
| jb1991 wrote:
| tldr:
|
| > to date there is insufficient evidence from mechanistic human
| studies to make conclusions about causality between a specific
| diet and microbially mediated brain function.
| h0l0cube wrote:
| A line from the abstract is not a fair summary of this article
| bckr wrote:
| That's because there's not a straight line between correlation
| and causation. The controlled experiments haven't been done
| yet. But that's not all there is to science.
| crikeyjoe wrote:
| liberia wrote:
| Anyone here drink kefir yogurt? I have kefir grains which I
| ferment in milk and get a weekly yield of yogurt that I drink out
| of a bowl after straining the yogurt. It's packed with
| probiotics, and helps with my mood. It's an all round useful
| elixir to make.
| zucked wrote:
| I add Kefir to a lot of dishes (both cooked and uncooked) that
| call for some dairy component. I actually prefer it to milk in
| things like pancakes, even though cooking it must kill
| some/many/all of the probiotics. I was making my own, but I was
| finding the process a bit more involved than I wanted to deal
| with, so I just recently started buying pre-made kefir.
|
| I can't say that I've experienced a world-altering impact to my
| life (wow, no more acne and I've lost 22lbs!) but I do think
| I've been able to eat dairy products (cheese and yogurt) with
| far less upset stomach than before. Careful with introducing
| Kefir if you're looking to try it out - start small. I was
| adding a tablespoon to my dishes and it made me gassy as heck
| for the first couple of days.
| aszantu wrote:
| if i drink a certain brand of kefir before bed i get space
| dreams 2 out of 3 times, in germany it's called muller milch
| kefir, good stuff xD
|
| can't do it too often since I don't to well with the sugar
| content of dairy but it's fun!
|
| Warped in a space battle once, barely missed some shooting
| turret and deep dove into a beforehand invisible sun wich was
| made of blue water filled cells, good thing, dreams don't have
| to make sense!
| KingFelix wrote:
| Thats pretty cool, I wonder what causes it? I wonder if you
| could do a double blind, have someone fill a cup of muller
| milch kefir, and another brand for a few nights (secretly
| your assistant has only used the off brand, do you still get
| space dreams?)
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| A few years ago I started making and eating a lot of fermented
| foods for purely gastronomic reasons, including kefir. I
| haven't really noticed any obvious changes.
|
| I've been on antibiotics twice in this time and do feel like I
| get my appetite back more quickly after stopping them now. An
| antibiotic course used to mean weeks or months of poor
| appetite, nausea and indigestion now it's like 10 days. But
| that could be coincidence or something else entirely, who
| knows.
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