[HN Gopher] Standard Ebooks
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Standard Ebooks
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 1460 points
       Date   : 2022-07-24 16:59 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (standardebooks.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (standardebooks.org)
        
       | Thrymr wrote:
       | The Kindle FAQ [0] is interesting:
       | 
       | > Why don't you provide mobi files in addition to azw3 files?
       | 
       | > Standard Ebooks is a small, volunteer-led project, and we don't
       | have the time or resources to support a second proprietary file
       | type just because Amazon can't get its act together. We have time
       | for one or the other, and azw3 is the technically superior format
       | that provides the better reading experience.
       | 
       | > Why can't I use "Send to Kindle" to send an azw3 file to my
       | Kindle?
       | 
       | > We don't know! You'd think that Amazon would allow you to send
       | the very file format it invented to its own devices. But Amazon
       | hasn't made it possible to send azw3 files via "Send to Kindle,"
       | even though they surely could. You should complain to Amazon, or
       | vote with your wallet and buy a better ereader.
       | 
       | [0] https://standardebooks.org/help/how-to-use-our-
       | ebooks#kindle...
        
         | mecha_ghidorah wrote:
         | In terms of switching e-readers I currently do have a kindle
         | voyage, which I love, but I am increasingly worried about what
         | happens when it reaches end of life... Does anyone have
         | recommendations for a similar e-reader that has the things I
         | love about it: e-ink display, and buttons for page turning
         | instead of a touchscreen, _and_ have said buttons on both sides
         | of the device? The Kindle Oasis and a few others I 've seen
         | only have buttons on one side and having to rotate the device
         | 180 degrees and wait for the display to flip every time I want
         | to change hands sounds like a nightmare. It might just be
         | because I'm left handed and therefore am more comfortable using
         | both hands for things than most people, but the lopsided
         | designs Amazon and some other manufacturers are using just look
         | so hobbled to me.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | The Barnes & Noble Nook Glowlight 4 has an e-ink display and
           | physical buttons on both sides. This is not a recommendation.
           | I have never held one in my hand and the last time I had
           | anything to do with the Nook ecosystem was over 10 years ago.
           | I just know it exists and meets those 2 criteria.
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | Caliber's maintainer has similarly pithy remarks about Amazon
         | if you ever check the MobileRead forums.
         | 
         | Amazon should officially be supporting EPUB as the send-to-
         | Kindle option now, so that might no longer be necessary. You
         | might still have an issue with missing covers, though.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | This is technically true, however when you do that they
           | simply convert the epub to mobi on the backend, which is even
           | worse.
        
             | hollandheese wrote:
             | They're converting it to AZW3 actually. Which makes them
             | not allowing AZW3 in Send-to-Kindle even more baffling.
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | I'm suspicious whether they're still using MOBI on the
             | backend, given that they sent me an email about it a few
             | days ago when I tried to share a mobi file to my mother's
             | Kindle. The email is below:
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | Dear Kindle Customer,
             | 
             | Thank you for using the Send to Kindle service to send
             | personal documents to your Kindle library. We noticed that
             | the following document(s), sent by you at HH:MM AM on Sun,
             | Jul DD, 2022 GMT are in MOBI (.mobi, .azw) formats:
             | <<REDACTED>>
             | 
             | We wanted to let you know that starting August 2022, you'll
             | no longer be able to send MOBI (.mobi, .azw) files to your
             | Kindle library. Any MOBI files already in your library will
             | not be affected by this change. MOBI is an older file
             | format and won't support the newest Kindle features for
             | documents. Any existing MOBI files you want to read with
             | our most up-to-date features for documents will need to be
             | re-sent in a compatible format.
             | 
             | Compatible formats now include EPUB (.epub), which you can
             | send to your library using your Send to Kindle email
             | address. We'll also be adding EPUB support to the free
             | Kindle app for iOS and Android devices and the Send to
             | Kindle desktop app for PC and Mac.
             | 
             | If you have any questions, please visit our help page or
             | contact our Customer Service team.
             | 
             | Regards, Amazon Kindle Support
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | I would think they might be converting it to some other
             | format? Otherwise, why yank the feature to send direct
             | MOBIs anymore?
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | The technical decisions Kindle makes are shrouded in
               | obscurity, both in logic and in execution...
        
               | NoboruWataya wrote:
               | I have to assume it's at least a precursor to rolling out
               | broader support for EPUB.
               | 
               | Unfortunately, I am using a ~12 year old Kindle which
               | isn't going to be seeing any updates, so discontinuing
               | send-to-Kindle for MOBI will basically just mean I can't
               | use that feature anymore.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | Any reason why you haven't upgraded? I keep an old Kindle
               | around as well, but just for having a physical Kindle
               | registered to my account so that I can download the books
               | I purchase and remove the DRM. All my actual reading is
               | done on a Kobo.
               | 
               | At some point Amazon sent me an email that my Kindle
               | would soon lost storefront access and offered me some
               | kind of voucher for an upgrade (like 30% off and a $40
               | ebook credit). Surely with all that you could've grabbed
               | a new model during the Prime Day sales for next to
               | nothing?
        
               | gnuj3 wrote:
               | Hey I'm just curious about what you said here. I've got
               | Kindle Paperwhite but I was thinking of moving away from
               | Amazon in the future and buying Kobo for example when the
               | upgrade is due. My only worry was money spent on Kindle
               | books. Will I be able to move the purchased books easily
               | to Kobo? So they look natively? Thanks!
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | The challenge will be removing the DRM from your Kindle
               | books. You may need to Google around a bit, but here's a
               | high-level of what you need to do:
               | 
               | 1) Seek out a tool called "DeDRM". The original plugin is
               | no longer supported, so you may want to search on GitHub
               | for the fork from NoDRM, which is still maintained.
               | 
               | 2) Download Calibre if you don't already have it and
               | install the DeDRM plugin.
               | 
               | 3) You now need to get your books from Amazon into a
               | format that DeDRM is able to crack. One method is to
               | download the Kindle for PC app, but this method can be
               | finnicky because Amazon keeps changing the DRM schema to
               | avoid being cracked and you may have to track down an
               | older version of the install. The easier method is to
               | pull the books off your Paperwhite itself. So inside of
               | Calibre, configure the DeDRM tool and enter in your
               | Paperwhite's serial number (this is needed because the
               | serial number is used as part of the encryption).
               | 
               | 4) Finally, try importing one of your Kindle Paperwhite
               | books into Calibre, and try opening the book using
               | Calibre's ebook viewer. If you can read the book (i.e.
               | the text is not scrambled), the decryption was
               | successful. You can then load the rest of your
               | collection. You should now have a collection of DRM-free
               | AZWs.
               | 
               | 5) The final step to getting the books over to your Kobo
               | is converting them to a compatible format. Calibre has a
               | built-in conversion tool for AZW to EPUB, however some
               | people complain that the built-in tool can mess with the
               | formatting. You may wish to download an additional plugin
               | called KindleUnpack, which will produce an EPUB or MOBI
               | file that is closer to the source material.
               | 
               | You can try all of this before getting a Kobo to make
               | sure that it works. I've set this up for various family
               | members who all uses Kindle exclusively, primarily so
               | that we can share books with each other, but also just to
               | make sure that everyone has a good backup of their
               | collection.
        
               | jdougan wrote:
               | I can't speak for him, but my old devices are a pair of
               | Kindle DXs. AFAICT there is no real upgrade for those.
        
               | NoboruWataya wrote:
               | Mainly I just don't see the point in upgrading when my
               | existing device (currently) works perfectly fine. It's
               | less about cost and more about waste, and good old
               | fashioned stubbornness. Most of my books are physical; I
               | mainly use the Kindle for reading free ebooks (like those
               | from Standard Ebooks) or I will occasionally buy an ebook
               | when ordering physically is impractical for whatever
               | reason. So any slight annoyances that come from using an
               | old device don't really bother me.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | As I'm fond of saying, Kindle is an ecosystem invented by
         | people who hate books. It's a pity they're the first thing many
         | people think of when they hear "ebooks."
        
       | enriquto wrote:
       | This is really great, and a fantastic complement to PG.
       | 
       | I'm a bit surprised that pdf downloads are not proposed. Given
       | the (lovely!) emphasis on typography, it would seem the natural
       | option. The epub formats are a bit foreign to me. The html
       | version is alright, and you can "print" it with the web browser,
       | but it does not produce a perfect pdf.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | If you are an avid reader with and e-reader you sort of start
         | to hate pdf and it feels annoying if you follow some links to
         | an ebook and you get... a pdf.
         | 
         | Still, for the tablet readers of course it could be a nice
         | extra option, I agree. It takes some effort though.
        
           | enriquto wrote:
           | Interesting... I am an avid reader (and an obsessive
           | bibliophile!) but I have the opposite reaction to yours
           | regarding file formats. Pdf is perfection, then I like djvu
           | and then well-formatted plain text files. Epubs are a thing
           | of horror, that invariably botches all the formulas and
           | destroys the flow of the pages.
           | 
           | It has gotten to the point where if something is in epub
           | format, I don't even bother to download it.
        
             | innocenat wrote:
             | I guess you don't read on smaller device. Kindle, for
             | example, with 6-7" screen, is not going to read
             | A4-formatted PDF well at all. On phone, too. A4-sized PDF
             | only works well on 10" device or larger.
        
               | enriquto wrote:
               | Sounds more a problem with the kindle and its software
               | than with the pdf format itself. Books are typically set
               | at around 65 characters per line. This is perfectly
               | readable even on a small phone screen, in landscape
               | orientation and without margins. Think about it: a
               | typical phone is taller than the width of a paperback
               | book. The space is there, if you cannot get it to work
               | it's a software problem.
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | Your perfectly readable isn't everyone's perfectly
               | readable, and the benefit of ePubs is that they're
               | reflowable, unlike PDF. Having said that, why don't you
               | try our ePubs? We spend a lot of time on them to make
               | sure that they're not "things of horror" :)
        
               | innocenat wrote:
               | > This is perfectly readable even on a small phone
               | screen, in landscape orientation and without margins.
               | 
               | That's a lot of condition to be perfectly readable.
               | 
               | EPUB is readable even without all those conditions
               | because it's reflowable.
               | 
               | (And personally I hate using landscape mode on my
               | phone/Kindle)
        
       | aorth wrote:
       | I love this project. Just became a patron. Thanks for all the
       | hard work and commitment over the years.
        
       | virtualritz wrote:
       | This is fantastic!
       | 
       | The flabbergasting quality (or absence thereof) of ebooks I
       | purchase on Amazon is regularly driving me nuts.
       | 
       | Particularly forced justified layout (lacking hypenation, no
       | less) - on a mobile phone. Wtf? Don't get me even started about
       | the 'typography'.
       | 
       | Great to see there are other people who care about these things.
        
         | zolland wrote:
         | This is the worst part about libgen as well... no way to
         | navigate or sift through the horribly formatted epubs out there
         | :( tons don't even have a TOC it makes me so sad
        
       | david38 wrote:
       | Wow, talk about the most boring title that turned out to be the
       | best project I've read about in a while!
       | 
       | Literally thought it was about standard ebook structure (TOC,
       | index, etc). Turned out to be Ebooks Brought Up a Notch!
        
       | VladiKup wrote:
       | Dear Standard Ebooks guys & girls!
       | 
       | My startup is developing a similar service (beta), but including
       | books IN COPYRIGHT.
       | 
       | Our idea is to ensure technologically, that we enable book
       | digitizing P2P in one copy, on-demand (BookOfOne), FOR PRIVATE
       | USE ONLY, which is fair use / fair dealing by most countries'
       | copyright laws.
       | 
       | We leverage the Finnish legislature (incl. Public Lending Right's
       | author royalty 0.32EUR paid, at each access to BookOfOne = a
       | Book's unique ONE ONLY copy with digital twin made on-demand,
       | Peer-to-Peer): https://bit.ly/oeBookTONstatement
       | 
       | Slide deck: https://bit.ly/oeBook10D100Cslides One-pager for
       | students: https://bit.ly/oeBook10D100C One-pager for Internet
       | Archive: https://bit.ly/oeBook4IA1pager
       | 
       | Website blog (with video links): http://smartpaper.fi/oe
       | 
       | Would you be interested to collaborate? If yes, I'd ask our
       | coders to develop API from public libraries to your service, so
       | that any global user could access HYBRID (paper + eBook) version
       | of any published book, anonymously, in accordance with the
       | Finnish law. FOR FREE (for library patrons) / for 12EUR yearly
       | membership fee / for 1 hour book scanning job's token.
       | 
       | *We send OTP access code to a book's digital twin/e-file at a
       | paper letter first to a public library patron's registered home
       | address, for 2 Factors Authentication of Right to access; incl.
       | ZKP encryption, anonymised DID tokens etc.
       | 
       | Via TRANSKRIBUS READ-Coop https://readcoop.eu/transkribus/public-
       | models/ and UpCode image recognition of a book's cover
       | https://www.upcodeworld.com/about/news/ and white-hack scraping
       | of book image at a local library / National archive (WorldCat
       | etc.) https://bit.ly/oeBookARbutton
        
       | andrew-jack wrote:
       | This project is amazing. newly acquired patronage. Thank you for
       | your dedication and hard work over the years.
        
       | khendron wrote:
       | Amazing! Love this!
       | 
       | How do you choose the books to added to your library?
        
         | anjbe wrote:
         | https://standardebooks.org/contribute/collections-policy
        
       | spansoa wrote:
       | Bookmarked. Another reminder we are drowning in information on
       | the web. There's no excuse for not becoming a better version of
       | yourself due to The Internet. I will certainly read some of the
       | books hosted on this site.
        
         | gnuj3 wrote:
         | I'm recently trying to limit my internet use to such projects -
         | can you share any other bookmarks that you saved?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | radicalriddler wrote:
       | Slightly off topic, but how has Amazon and Kobo picked up the
       | rights for ebooks? Can anyone set up a ebook marketplace? I'm
       | assuming it takes quite a bit of negotiating with publishers and
       | other distributors?
       | 
       | Anyone have any insights into this process?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jibbers wrote:
       | I've only read a handful of books from Standard Ebook, but
       | they've all been amazing quality ebooks -- better than some
       | ebooks I've paid for through an Amazon Kindle back in the day.
       | 
       | These folks keep an RSS (love it) with each new book they add to
       | the collection. The hoarder/collector in me likes to have all
       | these perfectly formatted books and thanks to the hardworking
       | people at SE I have, and you can too, some 700 classics for free!
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | Glad to hear you're liking the project! We just added bulk
         | downloads too, for the collector in you:
         | https://standardebooks.org/bulk-downloads
        
           | mchusma wrote:
           | Hi, I am curious if you might consider publishing directly to
           | the stores (Kindle) as a free book (or $0.99). It would make
           | it easier for people to access. I am an engineer but failed
           | to try and get a kindle book downloaded and read last night
           | after seeing your post. So I imagine your work is out of
           | grasp to all but the most technical who have a computer
           | handy. I was 100% on my phone (no computer to upload), and I
           | just couldn't figure it out and gave up. I would support you
           | over other publishers.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | Without a desktop intermediary your best bet is to email
             | the file to your kindle from your phone. By default kindles
             | have a random generated email address. You can customize
             | the email address to something memorable in your kindle
             | settings (and also in Amazon's Devices settings web pages)
             | or just add the random generated address to your contact
             | list.
             | 
             | There's a bunch of tutorials on it you can find that try to
             | make it easy to figure out where these settings pages are.
             | But of course Amazon likes to move that cheese every few
             | months and A/B test "improvements" to the pages and page
             | designs so tutorials also get outdated quickly.
        
             | acabal wrote:
             | Kindle is one of the worst reading platforms and it looks
             | like this kind of difficulty is one more reason why. If
             | you're on your phone, try using almost any other ereading
             | app and download our epub files instead.
             | 
             | Amazon expressly forbids any more free public domain ebooks
             | on their platform. But our ebooks are available at the
             | Google Play store and in the Apple store, for free.
        
               | neves wrote:
               | There was a hack to publish a book for free in Google
               | Play and ask for a price match from Amazon. Does it still
               | work?
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | Not sure, but even if Amazon allowed more free public
               | domain books, it wouldn't make much sense to post there
               | because their store is so saturated with low-quality junk
               | editions. There isn't much point in being on the 20th
               | page of search results for "Pride and Prejudice".
        
           | unnouinceput wrote:
           | Since this is on top of HN now, you'll get hit by the crowd.
           | You might want to implement torrent support too, so you won't
           | get hit that hard.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | it requires an email address/login so it won't be hit that
             | hard. (no disrespect intended)
        
             | acabal wrote:
             | We've been front paged before without problems :) See
             | https://alexcabal.com/posts/standard-ebooks-and-classic-
             | web-...
             | 
             | (Though that article is now out of date, as we now have a
             | database running that handles things like patron
             | registration, though it still doesn't index ebooks.)
        
               | Aeolun wrote:
               | This web stack sounds hopelessly anachronistic.
               | 
               | If you'd just use a modern stack you could serve 10x less
               | requests with more hardware.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | irrational wrote:
               | You had me in the first half ;-)
        
               | zolland wrote:
               | Sounds pretty far from hopeless to me
        
               | irrational wrote:
               | Closely read the second half again.
        
               | tambourine_man wrote:
               | The sarcasm almost flew right past me.
        
               | sk0g wrote:
               | So would you say they are just not web scale yet?!
               | 
               | They seem to be serving millions of books per month on a
               | cheap VM. For once a smaller website didn't crash upon
               | hitting the front page, so I don't really see any
               | problems here.
        
               | _carbyau_ wrote:
               | Read the comment again, you brain may have made automatic
               | corrections - as mine did upon first read. :-) There is
               | more than a little cynicism there.
        
               | sk0g wrote:
               | Oh you're right, my bad! Definitely glazed over good
               | chunks of the comment because I've seen similar takes
               | without the sarcasm ad nauseam.
               | 
               | I did read anachronistic as antagonistic (?) and less as
               | more. Brain auto-correct may just be worse than the phone
               | keyboard one!
        
               | baq wrote:
               | I love the old hattedness of this comment. Aeolun must
               | have been around and seen things.
        
               | tigerlily wrote:
               | > For example, once you start with AWS and its eldritch
               | coterie of inscrutable services
               | 
               | Ohh dang this is good prose, and a great read to boot.
               | Thank you!
        
               | tambourine_man wrote:
               | God, I loved this article. I kept nodding to the point of
               | almost exclaiming agreement out loud.
               | 
               | It's rare to see some good sense in this industry, which
               | is almost completely fashion and hype/novelty driven,
               | despite supposedly being a technical field.
        
       | willhinsa wrote:
       | Completely off topic, but the name "standard" makes me think of a
       | hilarious Bob Mortimer story on "World I Lie To You?" where he
       | accidentally set his house on fire as a child with a box of
       | "Standard Fireworks", which he assumed would be very basic and
       | safe because of the name.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/Rqmd39GdDww
        
         | mdp2021 wrote:
         | Lots of philology this weekend... "Standard" is the symbol you
         | place up high, to "stand hard [firm]", a mark to behold, as if
         | - then - a parameter.
         | 
         | So, 'Standard Ebooks' is read as "model ebooks, exemplary of
         | how they should be made", and the same for the fireworks... In
         | spite of David Mitchell who wanted to joke on "standard" as
         | "common" - which is an overly optimistic deviation, and
         | Mitchell fumbled there, while remaining a good support act for
         | international treasure the Bob Mortimer, the "Standard" (of
         | himself).
        
           | bdefore wrote:
           | But standards can be low or high. Can one firmly stand on
           | unfirm ground?
        
             | Shared404 wrote:
             | TCP would suggest that the answer is yes, though it may not
             | always be obvious how.
        
       | akprasad wrote:
       | Wonderful project! I'm working on something similar for a
       | different language.
       | 
       | How closely do you work with Distributed Proofreaders? [1]
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.pgdp.net/c/
        
         | fernly wrote:
         | As a long-time PGDP volunteer and a some-time Standard Ebook
         | one, I would say the connection isn't close. The "distributed
         | proofreaders" at the wonderful PGDP put zillions of hours into
         | cleaning up and formatting books which are then fed to Project
         | Gutenberg for distribution. Standard Ebooks picks up the PG
         | books and re-formats them to their standards.
         | 
         | Back in the day I was the "post-processor" for a number of PGDP
         | books. This meant I received the page scan files which had
         | already been through five (5!) separate passes by volunteer
         | proofers and compiled them into a single etext in (initially)
         | HTML, and later Ebook.
         | 
         | The fact that Standard Ebooks finds typos in PG books (and they
         | do, and kudos to them for their work) simply underscores the
         | huge difficulty of cleaning OCR'd text. In the example on the
         | linked Standard Ebooks front page, the typo of "tne" for "the"
         | is a very typical "scanno" as they are called at PGDP. Both the
         | software and the wetware have overlooked the missing vertical
         | stem of the letter "h".
         | 
         | However, that particular scanno should never have reached
         | distribution at PG, because the last two volunteer passes at
         | PGDP _require_ the volunteer to apply spellcheck before
         | committing a page as complete, plus the post-processor should
         | use spellcheck on the finalized book. That example typo must
         | have come into the PG library at least 20 years ago, or else it
         | didn't come through PGDP.
         | 
         | From experience I can say that as an organization Standard
         | Ebooks are much more tightly managed than most open-source
         | volunteer outfits, and if you can fit into their system, you
         | can put in very satisfying hours building books there. (Despite
         | having formatted some (I thought) handsome works for PGDP, I
         | couldn't meet the standards of Standard Ebooks, or maybe I was
         | burned out, and didn't stay with them.)
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | PGDP is an incredible project. We mostly work on the
         | transcriptions they produce and we specifically avoid creating
         | our own transcriptions, because PGDP already has such a good
         | system in place. When people ask for a new transcription we
         | point them to PGDP instead.
         | 
         | (We have occasionally done our own transcriptions, since in the
         | past few years the US public domain has started expanding
         | again. In these cases we may transcribe a popular book
         | ourselves to have it ready at the start of the public domain
         | year, instead of waiting for PDGP's process.)
        
       | mike_n wrote:
       | Is there a set of standard open-source textbooks for k-12 levels?
       | If not, can we make it happen?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | Yes, CK12. [1] Fun fact: it's run by Neeru Khosla.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.ck12.org/student/
        
       | hericium wrote:
       | The page links to Google Groups as "mailing list". Is this the
       | only option for errors reporting when GitHub option doesn't fit
       | the problem?
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | It is a mailing list: I only interact with it via email. But if
         | you don't want to use that or Github you can find editor emails
         | at https://standardebooks.org/about#masthead.
        
       | SMAAART wrote:
       | This is quite an interesting poject.
        
       | llaolleh wrote:
       | The ebooks here on this website are great. I've been reading
       | Tolstoy's Confessions from there and it's been a delight.
        
       | mattwilsonn888 wrote:
       | Publish date should be standard information available on every
       | layer of the UI where the book title is shown. Otherwise this is
       | excellent and very much appreciated.
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | This is a not-uncommon request. The problem is that the
         | publication date for many older books is unclear or unknown.
         | Was _Romeo and Juliet_ published in 1597? It certainly appeared
         | in print, but that edition was so riddled with errors that
         | scholars think it was pirated. Was it published in 1599? A
         | better edition certainly appeared in print then, but that
         | edition too was incomplete and filled with errors. Then was it
         | published in 1609?...
         | 
         | This is a common theme for a surprising number of books, even
         | going in to the modern era. For that reason we're only
         | concerned with the publication date of our own editions.
         | Interested readers can come to conclusions about the original
         | publication date of particular books using their own research.
        
           | Valakas_ wrote:
           | Then maybe a range could be a good idea? "Publication date:
           | Likely sometime between 1597-1609."
        
           | thiht wrote:
           | Why not 1597-1609?
        
           | breck wrote:
           | I agree with OP and think it may be better to show a
           | publication year on every title. (Of course, the site is open
           | source so I could experiment with this myself).
           | 
           | I'd push back on your example and say it doesn't matter if
           | you say 1597, 1599, or 1609--any of those provides quite a
           | lot of information to the reader and vastly more information
           | that not providing any date at all. I find it a bit hard to
           | scan because some of the books seem to be from the Roman era,
           | others 1800's, and having an approximate publication year
           | would be very helpful.
           | 
           | But again, I could be wrong, just suspect OP is right and
           | putting years frequently would be a decent improvement.
        
       | alexalx666 wrote:
       | Amazing
        
       | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
       | Another library that collects volunteer efforts:
       | https://www.mobileread.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=130&ord...
       | 
       | Uneven, but some contributors generate very good quality ebooks,
       | and there's some unique stuff in collections and omnibus
       | editions.
        
       | longnguyen wrote:
       | Standard Ebooks is fantastic. The ebooks' quality is amazing.
       | I've been reading Sherlock Homes and am very happy with the
       | experience.
       | 
       | Shameless plug: I build this little tool[0] to make it a little
       | easier to send SE ebooks to your Kindle. Give it a try if you're
       | a Kindle owner.
       | 
       | [0]: https://ktool.io
        
         | dtparr wrote:
         | This seems to be primarily talking about sending web articles.
         | 
         | How does it work with SE Books? Are you able to do it
         | wirelessly while still maintaining the azw3 features given SE's
         | Kindle FAQ indicating it doesn't work with send to Kindle[0].
         | 
         | [0]: https://standardebooks.org/help/how-to-use-our-
         | ebooks#kindle...
        
       | NoboruWataya wrote:
       | Big fan of Standard Ebooks. Another similar project, which I
       | discovered on HN, is Global Grey:
       | https://www.globalgreyebooks.com/index.html
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | They've been around for a while, and now I notice that their
         | cover art format and ebook page layout look vaguely familiar
         | ... :)
        
           | esperent wrote:
           | Probably because they are using public domain historical art?
        
       | AtNightWeCode wrote:
       | I would recommend to not read most of these originals. New
       | editions modernize the language and are well worth the money to
       | buy or read at subscription services.
        
         | aeneasmackenzie wrote:
         | "modernize the language"? People still buy Chaucer in old (or
         | middle, whatever) English.
        
           | AtNightWeCode wrote:
           | Poe too, I actually had a phrase about poetry in my original
           | comment that I removed cause not generally interesting.
        
         | richardjs wrote:
         | Standard Ebooks does modernize language; it's step 14 on the
         | production guide[1].
         | 
         | [1] https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
         | ste...
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | Not being familiar with the literature world, are the "new
         | editions" typically standardized, or are there many competing
         | new editions for a given title? How do you tell which one(s)
         | are the higher quality new editions?
        
           | AtNightWeCode wrote:
           | There is no standard as far as I know. Anybody can get hold
           | of ISBN series so there is a torrent of releases for old
           | literature.
        
       | squidbeak wrote:
       | I appreciate this project very much and constantly wish ebook
       | standards at the big commercial publishing houses were even half
       | as good as SE's.
        
       | qqquackk wrote:
       | Can anyone recommend a high quality ebook reader app for Android,
       | that would be compatible with one or more of the formats this
       | site offers?
       | 
       | Also what is this "advanced epub" format they have? I can't see
       | where they describe the actual difference with "compatible epub".
        
         | ChadNauseam wrote:
         | An underrated choice is Google Play Books. Share an epub file
         | to it and Google will upload it and make it available on the
         | app and on play.google.com/books, with page position synced and
         | everything else you'd expect
        
         | tharen wrote:
         | > Can anyone recommend a high quality ebook reader app for
         | Android, that would be compatible with one or more of the
         | formats this site offers?
         | 
         | I use [Librera Reader](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.foob
         | nix.pro.pdf.reader/] and
         | [Voice](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.ph1b.audiobook/) for
         | audio books.
         | 
         | [KO-Reader](https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launch
         | er.fdroid...) is also recommended, but the one above I found
         | easier to use, though both seem highly recommended.
         | 
         | I found these Android apps from this [post on r/androidapps](ht
         | tps://old.reddit.com/user/Jackie7610/comments/lr5gag/list_...)
         | 
         | Basically just look for epub, as that is the open standard -
         | though really it doesn't matter if you use
         | [Calibre](https://calibre-ebook.com/) as it can convert between
         | them, but you have to check the types supported yourself...
         | 
         | > Also what is this "advanced epub" format they have? I can't
         | see where they describe the actual difference with "compatible
         | epub".
         | 
         | They have [an explanation
         | here](https://standardebooks.org/help/how-to-use-our-
         | ebooks#which-...), but I would say, when in doubt, just go with
         | the compatible one.
         | 
         |  _Besides, it 's just a book, I doubt anything will explode if
         | you use the wrong the version..._
        
         | magnio wrote:
         | The one with the best UX I found is Lithium Reader, but it only
         | supports epub. For a versatile reader, I use ReadEra, which can
         | open more formats than I care about. Both are free and have no
         | ads.
        
         | feydaykyn wrote:
         | I've been using MoonReader (https://moondownload.com/) for
         | years now and it's great, with an integration with the
         | Gutenberg project. I also love the gestual shortcuts to control
         | brightness, and the treasure thrive of options.
         | 
         | The "advanced ebook" is not displaying the cover, I'll reach to
         | the dev, but the compatible version is ok.
        
           | AB1908 wrote:
           | I second this suggestion since I heavily annotate my books.
           | The free version has ads but can be blocked via custom DNS.
           | I've written a bit about how I annotate here:
           | https://randombutinteresting.me/2022/03/11/annotating-in-
           | moo...
        
       | acabal wrote:
       | Editor-in-chief here, happy to answer any questions!
        
         | badtension wrote:
         | How do you calculate the reading difficulty?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Using the Flesch-Kincaid scale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
           | /Flesch%E2%80%93Kincaid_readabi...
        
             | BossingAround wrote:
             | I wish there was a difficulty for non-native speakers.
             | Flesch-Kincaid score does nothing for the majority of
             | readers if it doesn't distinguish between Night and Day
             | (Woolf) and Shakespeare's Coriolanus. From purely the
             | language's perspectives, non-native speakers will struggle
             | with Coriolanus much more due to outdated language.
             | 
             | Flesch-Kincaid makes little sense to me for books aimed at
             | adults in general.
        
         | lumb63 wrote:
         | Love this project! I've read several books from Project
         | Gutenberg and owe a great deal to the project. I love seeing
         | this extension of it and will be sure to avail myself of it and
         | possibly contribute one day!
         | 
         | Not a question, so much as a suggestion from an interested
         | netizen: it would be great to see changes flowed back up to
         | Gutenberg. I know they have a process for submitting updates -
         | I've made several to The Wealth of Nations myself.
         | 
         | Thanks for sharing the project, and I look forward to my next
         | read!
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | Yeah, the question is: why this, and not just put in with
           | Project Gutenberg?
        
             | sigzero wrote:
             | I think the differentiator is that SE puts a lot more care
             | into the creation of the end product than PG.
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | I think that's a little unfair on PG. Their goal is
               | digital preservation, whilst SE's is readability. We
               | couldn't do what we do without PG, and there's (luckily)
               | space for both projects to coexist in a mutually
               | beneficial way. And the reader gets to pick a source that
               | best matches what they're looking for.
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | It's down to the producer, but 95% of the SE books I produce
           | have changes upstreamed to PG. There's no competition between
           | us: we both serve different niches.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | How many volunteers do you have? What motivates people to keep
         | working?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | I don't keep count but over the years I'd say the number is
           | in the several hundreds, including one-time volunteers. We do
           | have a core set of what we call "editors", who are volunteers
           | in charge of managing individual productions, along with a
           | solid amount of repeat contributors who work on ebooks as
           | they feel like it.
           | 
           | I think people participate because it feels good to make
           | something of quality, and then give it away. If you're
           | passionate about literature, then you get to read a lot of
           | great stuff while you're doing it, too.
        
           | hackernewds wrote:
           | To tack on, how could one join as a volunteer?
        
             | acabal wrote:
             | See here: https://standardebooks.org/contribute
             | 
             | Our number one need is ebook producers. If you're passingly
             | familiar in a command line environment and have basic
             | HTML/CSS knowledge, you can produce an ebook!
        
         | duckmysick wrote:
         | I'd love to see a section (or sorting option) with the most
         | downloaded ebooks.
        
         | ioblomov wrote:
         | What a great project! Would you have a need for a veteran web
         | dev who also happened to be an English major? Took a look at
         | the volunteer page, but nothing jumped out.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Absolutely! Creating epub ebooks is basically creating web
           | pages. Epubs are just zipped up XHTML files, with exactly the
           | same semantic structure and CSS styling you'd find on a well-
           | made web page. That makes web devs with English majors our
           | ideal type of volunteer!
           | 
           | Check out our step by step guide to creating an ebook[1] and
           | then our Wanted Ebook list[2] for some good first-time
           | productions. Then send a note to our mailing list and we'll
           | help you through it.
           | 
           | Creating an ebook is a very satisfying endeavor - I always
           | say it's like building your own lightsaber.
           | 
           | [1] https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
           | ste...
           | 
           | [2] https://standardebooks.org/contribute/wanted-ebooks
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | The list for accepting ebooks makes a lot of sense, but I
             | noted that public domain books are excluded. What is the
             | reason for that?
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | I'm neither associated with the project nor a lawyer, but
               | I can speculate: afaik U.S. copyright law doesn't
               | explicitly allow someone to declare a text to be in the
               | public domain.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | fimdomeio wrote:
         | Just a note, the line height (leading) when reading a book
         | online seems too small.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Line height is set to the browser/ereader default - it's not
           | something we change as it depends on the font. Font size is
           | also the ereader default, though if viewing in a web browser
           | we increase it slightly.
        
         | closeneough wrote:
         | If you wanted to create an ebook from scratch, how would you do
         | this? Would you write plain html. Would you write markdown, and
         | convert it? What tools would you use?
        
         | nynx wrote:
         | I'm curious what format the advanced epub is -- epub v3?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Yes, the advanced epubs are just the zipped source repo,
           | which is epub 3.2, including any "advanced" CSS selectors and
           | so on. "Advanced" here just means that the epubs are written
           | with a modern web rendering engine in mind, while most
           | ereading platforms in the wild are still at an IE6 level of
           | CSS/HTML rendering support.
           | 
           | The "compatible" epub is the same epub, but with various
           | compatibility enhancements automatically added for different
           | ereading platforms.
           | 
           | Currently only web browsers can render the advanced epubs at
           | 100% fidelity. iBooks might be the only non-browser ereading
           | platform that does a pretty good job with the advanced epubs,
           | as I believe it uses modern Webkit as its renderer. For any
           | other ereader, use the compatible epubs. (Or kepubs for
           | Kobo.)
        
             | BossingAround wrote:
             | Would you have any Android reading app recommendation for
             | advanced epubs? There are android ereaders, those should
             | surely be able to handle any epub given the right app,
             | right?
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | Lithium seems to be fairly good in terms of rendering our
               | advanced epubs, but it's not perfect; note especially
               | that it doesn't invert black-and-white SVGs correctly so
               | unless you set it to a dark page theme, they'll be
               | "invisible". There are also some other rendering quirks
               | for things like very big tables used for play formatting.
               | 
               | Poor renderers are a perennial problem in the epub world
               | and there seems to be little interest in improving the
               | situation. Just use the compatible epubs - for reading
               | purposes they're almost equivalent except in some rare
               | edge cases. Or, you can use our 'read online in browser'
               | option to read ebooks directly in your web browser, which
               | will serve you the source of our advanced epubs. But of
               | course reading in a browser is less than ideal.
        
         | Beldin wrote:
         | just curious, not planning...
         | 
         | Would you accept novel translations of non-English classics?
         | The policy suggests yes, but I imagine such a work would fall
         | under US copyright (which the policy forbids).
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | If by "novel" you mean "modern", then potentially, but they
           | would have to be actually good translations, and released to
           | the public domain via CC0. We only work on public domain
           | books.
        
         | axiomdata316 wrote:
         | I enjoy the cover art selected for the ebooks. How do you
         | select the cover art and what sources do you like to use?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Cover art must be in a fine art oil painting style, and it's
           | up to each producer to find something thematically
           | appropriate. Once they do we require proof of US public
           | domain status. See
           | https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.4/10-art-and-
           | images#10...
           | 
           | Wikiart and Artvee are good places to start cover art
           | research. Many museums now have explicit CC0 collections,
           | too.
           | 
           | Finding good public domain cover art can be extremely time
           | consuming - it's the part of the process most likely to make
           | a new contributor give up. But when you find a great cover,
           | it feels great!
        
             | occamschainsaw wrote:
             | Slight tangent, but have you considered using these new
             | generative models like Dall E 2[1]? So far my experience
             | has been that they generate great oil paintings. Maybe
             | there could also be an automated pipeline that generates
             | oil painting covers using book titles or first sentences.
             | 
             | [1] https://openai.com/dall-e-2/
        
               | robin_reala wrote:
               | Leaving aside the aesthetic considerations, the images
               | produced from OpenAI software aren't public domain, and
               | so we can't use them. See
               | https://openai.com/api/policies/sharing-publication/ for
               | a list of restrictions OpenAI places on the use of their
               | generated images.
        
         | stew-j wrote:
         | My wife is an admin on the PG project. She puts in a lot of
         | effort to keep the site secure. I think they welcome efforts
         | like yours, and reuse is part of why they exist! They also
         | research the copyrights, to make sure they are clear to share.
         | 
         | I use Project Gutenberg a lot personally, and in fact I'm using
         | one of their books as a study for my upcoming startup:
         | 
         | https://github.com/carter-brothers/hand-propped#first-stage-...
         | 
         | One thing I really like about the PG site is that a few years
         | ago they removed most of the JavaScript, which IMO makes it
         | more usable. I haven't looked at Standard Ebooks yet, but I
         | look forward to. Thanks!
         | 
         | One book I'd like to see on Standard Ebooks is "The Flying
         | Girl", which my wife and I just read and loved. It's by L.
         | Frank Baum (The Wizard of Oz), and is about a flying startup in
         | 1911, which I previously posted on HN:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32142757
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | _The Flying Girl_ would make a good first production, if you
           | 'd like to take it on! See
           | https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
           | ste...
           | 
           | Make sure to thank your wife on my behalf for her hard work
           | at PG!
        
             | stew-j wrote:
             | What a great idea! There was also a sequel:
             | 
             | https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/53692
             | 
             | I'll look into doing these, I also know a librarian who
             | might be interested.
             | 
             | I really can't believe Disney or Pixar, or some studio
             | didn't make "The Flying Girl" into a movie. It really was
             | bold and quite moving to see Baum (writing nom de plum as
             | Edith Van Dyne) make the female character the hero, back in
             | 1911.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | neves wrote:
         | Do you plan to make other browse options? I'd like to browse by
         | popularity or author. There's a bulk download by author, but
         | not in the browse page.
        
         | voxl wrote:
         | Have any of the ebooks included any serious math? I see that
         | MathML is the expectation, but I wonder if the rules around the
         | math aren't just ignored because of the rest of the culture
         | around which books are selected and worked on.
         | 
         | Indeed, in academic writing I never see MathML used in an HMTL
         | setting, it's always MathJax or KaTeX. For your purposes this
         | is probably fine, but imagining if someone wanted to author a
         | high quality math textbook following the same standard I would
         | wager they'd run into a brick wall
        
           | anjbe wrote:
           | It's certainly not "serious math," but I'm rather proud of
           | this revision I made to the MathML used for a throwaway
           | equation in an obscure short story:
           | https://github.com/standardebooks/fritz-leiber_short-
           | fiction...
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | _Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus_ , _Passages from the Life of
           | a Philosopher_ , and _A Tangled Tale_ are probably our most
           | MathML-heavy books.
           | 
           | Books from the PD era are not very likely to feature math
           | serious enough to require MathML. This is probably for the
           | best... MathML support in ereaders is poor, with the
           | exception of iBooks and Kobo. Raw MathML is retained in our
           | "advanced" epubs, but it's converted to PNGs in our
           | "compatible" epubs, for this reason.
           | 
           | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/ludwig-
           | wittgenstein/tracta...
           | 
           | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/charles-
           | babbage/passages-f...
           | 
           | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/lewis-carroll/a-tangled-
           | ta...
        
         | firstbabylonian wrote:
         | Do you have any plans to support (and accept contributions to)
         | non-English books? It'll be amazing to see original Russian
         | classic texts redone with the same level of care.
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | SE has a lot of English-specific tooling if you look at their
           | cli tool.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | This is a common request and the answer is unfortunately no.
           | Typography varies across languages and we are only experts in
           | English typography. People have tried to start up various SE-
           | like projects for other languages, but as far as I know none
           | have taken off.
        
             | billfruit wrote:
             | What about Latin, it uses the same typography as English.
        
             | firstbabylonian wrote:
             | Fair enough. Would you consider officially endorsing any
             | such projects (e.g. with links on your website), for mutual
             | benefit?
        
         | politelemon wrote:
         | Would you consider creating a Goodreads collection/list of all
         | the books in Standard Ebooks? Though I can appreciate if it's
         | too much work to curate or manage.
         | 
         | Edit -- oh, is this the list?
         | https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/140305.Standard_Ebooks
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | We did have one volunteer adding items to Goodreads as we
           | produced them, but the process was manual and very tedious,
           | and the ROI was questionable at best. So IIRC he no longer
           | does that. I'm not against the idea but someone has to
           | volunteer to pick up the task.
        
             | politelemon wrote:
             | Yeah it's a shame that Goodreads stopped giving out API
             | keys, that could have helped with automating the list to
             | some extent at least.
        
         | joshspankit wrote:
         | I may be seeing this thorough a "sensitive" lens, but the
         | language on the website feels like it's bashing Project
         | Gutenberg in order to show SE's strengths.
         | 
         | > Ebook projects like Project Gutenberg transcribe ebooks and
         | make them available for the widest number of reading devices.
         | Standard Ebooks takes ebooks from sources like Project
         | Gutenberg, formats and typesets them using a carefully designed
         | and professional-grade style manual...
         | 
         | > Other free ebooks (which PG has already been highlighted as
         | being in that category) don't put much effort into
         | professional-quality typography
         | 
         | It can be a very difficult task to compare without criticism.
         | It's clear that SE _does_ put care and attention in to all the
         | things mentioned with the goal of creating an excellent
         | edition, I just think that PG has well-earned the respect they
         | have for doing _what they do_ well: getting so many books in to
         | so many hands. As highlighted in the page and in your comments
         | here: PG and SE fill different needs so there is room for both
         | to stand tall.
        
           | 8b16380d wrote:
           | Bashing? The goals of each project are different and
           | compliment each other. I am almost positive the folks at PG
           | encourage projects like Standard Ebooks.
        
           | ncallaway wrote:
           | That doesn't strike me as "bashing", it strikes me as
           | contrasting different focuses.
           | 
           | PG is going for breadth--as many public domain books on as
           | many devices as possible. Standard Ebooks are going for depth
           | --a very quality of typesetting for each book.
        
         | labrador wrote:
         | I'm getting old and my eye sight is going. Are there any read-
         | a-loud options you can recommend? The Edge browser does a
         | decent job on PDF's in a voice you can select, but it's kind of
         | hacky for an entire book.
        
           | Poppys wrote:
           | Have you tried using NVDA? It's an open source and free
           | screen reader - https://www.nvaccess.org/
        
             | labrador wrote:
             | Thanks! This looks promising for the visually impaired.
        
           | Barrin92 wrote:
           | if you have an Alexa it can read ebooks you've bought on
           | Amazon.
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | the whole purpose of this thread is not to rely on Amazon
        
             | hackernewds wrote:
             | the question is clearly asking how not to do this on
             | Amazon.
        
         | POPOSYS wrote:
         | Thank you very much for demonstrating that a website without
         | JavaScript is still one very good way to produce a website!
        
         | compscistd wrote:
         | What's something you'd recommend to a friend as a beach read?
        
           | anjbe wrote:
           | I'll second Alex's recommendations of P. G. Wodehouse
           | (especially _Jeeves Stories_ ) and Agatha Christie.
           | 
           | A personal favorite of mine is Jules Verne's _Around the
           | World in Eighty Days_ :
           | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/jules-verne/around-the-
           | wor...
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | The Book of Wonder is a series of weird short stories, some
           | of them gloomy and pessimistic but many with a thread of dark
           | humor. "Chu-bu and Sheemish" is one of my all-time favorite
           | short stories - it's creative and hilarious. [1]
           | 
           | I also liked _A Voyage to Arcturus_ , which has become a
           | modern cult classic. It's probably my favorite book I've read
           | for SE, though it might be a little heavy for a "beach read."
           | [2]
           | 
           | P. G. Wodehouse is always a good bet for lighter reading. [3]
           | 
           | The Martian books are also light swashbuckling sci-fi. [4]
           | 
           |  _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_ is considered to be one of the
           | best murder mysteries ever written. [5]
           | 
           | [1] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/lord-dunsany/the-book-
           | of-w...
           | 
           | [2] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/david-lindsay/a-voyage-
           | to-...
           | 
           | [3] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/p-g-wodehouse
           | 
           | [4] https://standardebooks.org/collections/martian
           | 
           | [5] https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/agatha-christie/the-
           | murder...
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | The first book I downloaded from standard ebooks was a PG
             | Wodehouse book. I'd never read him and figured I'd give
             | both him and the service a try. Neither disappointed.
        
             | malshe wrote:
             | Thanks a lot for doing this! I just downloaded a PG
             | Wodehouse book on the iPad and I am thoroughly impressed by
             | the quality of the book! I read PG's books when I was
             | young. I used to borrow them from a local library so I
             | don't own any of them.
        
             | billfruit wrote:
             | Along with Wodehouse, I would also suggest E F Benson.
        
         | NelsonMinar wrote:
         | Do you have a plan for ensuring that Standard Ebooks never gets
         | overtaken by profit-seeking spam the way Manybooks was?
         | 
         | Love your project, thank you!
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | There are no guarantees in life, but as long as I'm at the
           | helm I hope to avoid spam!
           | 
           | We do accept donations because as SE becomes more popular and
           | attracts more contributors, managing the project is
           | approaching the time required for a full-time job.
        
         | infogulch wrote:
         | Great project thank you!
         | 
         | Have you considered adding _A Million Random Digits with
         | 100,000 Normal Deviates_ to the collection? It 's quite the
         | thriller -- every page is a surprise and you will never guess
         | what happens next!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | anatoly wrote:
         | 1. Apart from Project Gutenberg, where do your books come from?
         | 
         | 2. When you proofread and fix typos, do you contribute the
         | fixes back upstream?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | The vast majority come from PG. When they don't it's another
           | public domain transcription source, like Wikisource, Faded
           | Page, or Project Gutenberg Australia. We usually don't create
           | our own transcriptions.
           | 
           | Our producers can and do contribute back upstream! It's up to
           | the individual producer.
        
         | wafriedemann wrote:
         | What's your favourite ereader on macOS?
        
         | BbzzbB wrote:
         | Thoughts on introducing some kind of popularity/rank sort?
         | I.e., number of on-site downloads, off-site citations or some
         | book-equivalent-IMDB. Is it a conscious choice not to have one
         | or just feature prioritization?
         | 
         | The site looks lovely and I think it's great to have classic
         | books properly formatted for e-readers, I've snatched up the
         | ones that were sitting on my reading list for a while, but I
         | find it unfortunate that it's a bit rough to find new things. I
         | guess that mimics the feeling of a library, where books are
         | grouped by broad genre but only alphabetical (or random)
         | within, but I feel like it would be useful if it had some kind
         | of pointers for discovery.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | I'd be open to that but there's limited time in the day! If a
           | volunteer wants to discuss making it happen, send a note to
           | our mailing list or open a GitHub issue and we can talk about
           | it.
        
         | Namari wrote:
         | Might be a stupid question but in France books over 50 years of
         | age ended up "free" (to read not to exploit), does it work the
         | same way on all countries? Does it mean we can access books
         | that are over 50 years in your platform or even GP?
        
           | maxnoe wrote:
           | In Germany, works become gemeinfrei, a status similar but not
           | exactly equivalent to the public domain, 70 years after the
           | author's death.
        
         | vmilner wrote:
         | In general, I love the format, however I notice that (for
         | example), Hugh Lofting's "The Voyages of Doctor Dolittle" has
         | none of Lofting's illustrations - which seems a shame in a
         | children's book - is this a deliberate policy choice?
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | Yes, we purposely don't include decorative illustrations in
           | any ebook. (With some very rare exceptions.)
        
             | jacobolus wrote:
             | Is that just to cut down on file size?
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | even if they are also public domain?
        
             | gault8121 wrote:
             | What's the rationale for not including illustrations?
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | The ebooks we work on are often very old, and have been
               | illustrated various times over the years. We don't want
               | to have to pick and choose a single set of illustrations,
               | nor do we want to forced to constantly justify exceptions
               | for everyone's pet book, so we just have a blanket "no
               | decorative illustrations" policy.
               | 
               | Note that this only refers to _decorative_ illustrations,
               | which is not the same as an illustration required to
               | understand the text. As someone pointed out elsewhere,
               | books like Sherlock Holmes or Agatha Christie, which can
               | include narrative-critical illustrations like a map of a
               | murder scene, or nonfiction which can often have relevant
               | pictures but are not  "illustrated" in the decorative
               | sense, get to keep their images.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | I would argue that, where the book is illustrated by the
               | author, you should keep those illustrations.
               | 
               | (I'm against the no-illustrations policy in general, but
               | illustration by the author seems like an especially clear
               | case.)
        
               | ggm wrote:
               | yes, this seems to me to make sense, contextually. If you
               | did Piranesi on architecture, it wouldn't make sense to
               | exclude his drawings. or Ronald Searle's diary of his
               | time in the PoW camps in Japan, or Edward Ardizzone's war
               | diaries, or the sketches by "DD" watkins in his books..
               | or heaps of others.
               | 
               | arthur rackham's illustrations for childrens books, just
               | like e.h. shepards for winnie-the-pooh, or Quentin Blake
               | for his contributions to childrens books: its senseless
               | to re-publish them without these illustrations (when the
               | IP becomes available, of course)
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | I was imagining an illustration-free version of Dr.
               | Seuss.
        
               | OskarS wrote:
               | What about texts where there are more or less "canonical"
               | illustrations? Like, for an edition of Bleak House by
               | Charles Dickens, it's just not the same without the
               | sketches by "Phiz" that were present in the original
               | publication. Same with John Tenniels illustrations of
               | Alice in Wonderland.
               | 
               | Amazing project by the way. Can't believe I just heard
               | about it today, will dig into your catalogue with
               | excitement!
        
               | orzig wrote:
               | I super respect your thoughtful principles. the focus has
               | clearly paid off!
        
             | vmilner wrote:
             | Thanks - as I suspected, one of those seems to be "The
             | Return of Sherlock Holmes" where "The Dancing Men" story
             | needs the illustration to make the story understandable.
        
         | Brakenshire wrote:
         | From someone reading with a Kobo device:
         | 
         | * Have you considered putting the books onto the official
         | store? It would make it much smoother to get books on the
         | device. You could charge a small fee to pay for the effort, I'd
         | pay the extra to support the project and avoid the hassle of
         | doing an upload. I just saw above you now do bulk downloads,
         | which will help also.
         | 
         | * Although your covers are beautiful, they only appear in a
         | small corner of the screen for the Kobo devices I've used, even
         | using the Kepub format, is that a known issue?
         | 
         | And also to thank you for the effort. This project plays a
         | really important role and has been a source of pleasure for
         | many of my friends and family.
        
           | acabal wrote:
           | We've been in touch with Kobo but they haven't expressed a
           | lot of interest. We do have an integration with the Google
           | Play store, so if you search for an ebook we have in our
           | catalog, it should appear near the top.
           | 
           | I use a Kobo eink device myself and haven't noticed the cover
           | art problem you're describing. Make sure you're on the latest
           | firmware, and that you're transferring our kepub files using
           | a USB cable and not Calibre. (Calibre may attempt to apply
           | their own conversion on top of our own conversion, which can
           | result in unexpected things happening.)
        
             | Brakenshire wrote:
             | Thanks for both answers, I use Calibre, so that's the
             | reason why I'm getting that.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | I've taken to just opening the SE website in the Kobo
               | experimental browser and downloading the books directly
               | onto the device that way. The browser is pretty sluggish,
               | but even then it only takes a few clicks if you know what
               | book you're looking for.
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | There's been some talk about improving the Kobo browser
               | experience, if you want to take a crack at it!
               | https://github.com/standardebooks/web/issues/126
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | Are you aware that someone is selling your books on Kobo
             | with the Standard Ebooks publisher name?
             | 
             | https://www.kobo.com/us/en/search?query=standard%20ebooks&a
             | c...
        
               | hackernewds wrote:
               | That is very sad to see.
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | Yes, that's going to happen. The books are in the US
               | public domain and anyone in the US can do anything they
               | want with them, including reselling them. Obviously we
               | are not the ones selling these.
        
               | AequitasOmnibus wrote:
               | The stories may be public domain but your arrangement,
               | and more importantly your trade name _are_ protected. You
               | may not have the desire to take action like a dmca
               | takedown, but you 're definitely within your rights to do
               | so.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | You can stop the third-party vendor from saying "I am
               | Standard Ebooks", but you can't stop them from referring
               | to the book as coming from Standard Ebooks, because
               | that's true.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | That's fair, but I'd think the issue was less about
               | copyright and more...trademark infringement? Since
               | they're selling _as_ "Standard Ebooks", I think there's
               | reasonable grounds for confusion that someone browsing
               | the Kobo store might see one of the books being offered
               | as coming _from you_ and make a purchase as a kind of
               | donation, thinking that it 's going towards SE's upkeep
               | rather than into some random's pocket.
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | This is a problem Project Gutenberg has had for years, on
               | Amazon and other platforms. It's a game of whack a mole
               | and ultimately not really worth pursuing. As soon as you
               | shut one guy down, another one appears with the same
               | great idea.
               | 
               | In any case almost nobody is buying these anyway, as
               | there are so many other free ebook editions of just about
               | all of these books already.
        
               | hedora wrote:
               | I'm not a lawyer, but I believe failure to defend a
               | trademark is a great way to lose a trademark.
               | 
               | I'm surprised Kobo doesn't have a list of banned seller
               | names for situations like this. It would take zero effort
               | on their end, and they're clearly opening themselves to
               | liability.
               | 
               | Off to create Amazon and Disney stores over there... /s
        
               | omnimus wrote:
               | I am not a lawyer bit it seems that Standard Ebooks is
               | not a trademark.
        
             | BbzzbB wrote:
             | >Make sure you're on the latest firmware
             | 
             | If I may interject, overriding Kobo's firmware with
             | KOReader (simple drag-n-drop of a file) gave a second life
             | to my Aura 2. It's made it responsive and snappy while
             | providing more features. It may not be necessary for newer
             | ones (or for cover art on sleep), but I was on the fence to
             | upgrade my 5 year old e-reader before trying it, feels like
             | a new device now.
        
         | rg111 wrote:
         | If I use Lithium Epub Reader Pro on Android, does that support
         | "advanced epub" properly?
        
       | Farbklex wrote:
       | What would be a good affordable ebook reader to enjoy this books?
        
         | TheFreim wrote:
         | I have a KOBO Libra H20, it is very good. I loaded KOReader on
         | to it which adds functionality
         | (https://github.com/koreader/koreader).
        
         | nvllsvm wrote:
         | These books should be usable on any Kindle or Kobo device. Just
         | be sure download the appropriate format for the device - the
         | download page on this site will tell you which one you need for
         | your device.
         | 
         | Personally, I use a Kobo Libra 2. Not the cheapest ereader at
         | $179 USD, but I went with it due to USB-C, IPX8, and support
         | for the third-party KOReader viewer.
        
         | omnimus wrote:
         | I recently need cheap one and got Pocketbook Touch HD 3. My
         | expectations were low but it turned out to be great. It runs
         | their locked down linux distro but it had Dropbox sync and i
         | installed KOreader on it. Kinda everything i needed.
        
       | pronoiac wrote:
       | Huh. Choosing a book at somewhat random - Mike by P.G. Wodehouse
       | - neither the compatible or advanced (experimental?) epubs are
       | working terribly well in Bluefire Reader on my iPad. I might poke
       | at this with Calibre. Or if there are recommendations for another
       | epub reader, with the caveat that I need annotations.
       | 
       | It looks like the workflow is per book. That ... seems odd.
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | iBooks is at the moment the best ebook renderer for iPad, hands
         | down. If there are specific issues that look very bad on
         | Bluefire Reader, please send a note to our mailing list with
         | details so we can take a look!
        
         | dirkt wrote:
         | Calibre actually does horrible things to the HTML source that
         | hides in each epub. While Standard Ebooks do promote awesome
         | HTML. If you run Calibre on it, it's ruined.
         | 
         | An epub is just a zip file. Open it up, look inside, see for
         | yourself.
        
           | rkapsoro wrote:
           | Isn't this only if you use Calibre to do a _conversion_ on
           | the epub?
           | 
           | Calibre can just be used as a library, right?
        
           | zufallsheld wrote:
           | Can you explain or link to some resources on what calibre
           | does with ebooks?
        
             | solardev wrote:
             | Their website is terrible (this was the best resource there
             | I found: https://manual.calibre-ebook.com/#customizing-
             | calibre-s-e-bo...), but the Calibre software itself is
             | really powerful, letting you do things like:
             | 
             | * Read eBooks in just about any popular or semi-popular
             | format
             | 
             | * Manage your library
             | 
             | * Convert books to and from any of the supported formats,
             | specifying details of that conversion like tables of
             | content, typography, chapter headings, etc.
             | 
             | * Edit book metadata
             | 
             | * With a plugin, strip DRMed ebooks of their protection so
             | you can use them on other devices
             | 
             | It's just a one-stop GUI for doing just about any sort of
             | ebook maintenance/library management/cleanup. Helpful if
             | your source materials are free or pirated, or if your
             | device is unsupported at the major ebook stores. Lets you
             | take a Kindle-only ebook, for example, get rid of the DRM,
             | rip it to a more standard format, and send it to some
             | obscure ereader that you have.
        
               | zufallsheld wrote:
               | I think you misunderstood my question. The question was
               | in regards to this sentence from the op: > Calibre
               | actually does horrible things to the HTML source that
               | hides in each epub.
        
               | solardev wrote:
               | I did indeed misunderstand. I'm sorry :)
        
           | jbotz wrote:
           | OK, I checked. Calibre did almost nothing to the epubs I
           | downloaded and added to the Calibre library and then sent to
           | my device from there (a KOBO Libra H2O). The _only_ thing it
           | did was to add a file `. /META-INF/calibre_bookmarks.txt` to
           | the zip archive. The HTML was completely untouched. Now
           | obviously if you do some conversion it's going to be another
           | mattter and it's possible that the Calibre checks for some
           | things it considers incompatible with its reader and in those
           | cases alters the HTML, but I didn't find anything like that
           | in the books I checked.
           | 
           | Admittedly I don't think that Calibre should touch the
           | contents of an ebook zip file without specific action from
           | the user (such as requesting a conversion)... but what it
           | does doesn't seem to be problematic.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | hackernewds wrote:
       | Sad this only has 9/70 patrons??
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | That's the latest drive. You can see our full patrons list at
         | the bottom of https://standardebooks.org/about.
        
       | aclindsa wrote:
       | Curious: Since Standard Ebooks uses Project Gutenberg's work, why
       | not contribute back instead of 'fork' to a separate project? Are
       | there obstacles preventing this or making it less than desirable?
        
         | ptato wrote:
         | I assume creating a brand of their own makes it easier to get
         | donations which allows them to continue and/or grow the
         | project.
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | Our editions are totally different than what PG does, our goals
         | are different, our technical approach is different, and our
         | collections policy is different. We would rather have our own
         | curated catalog on our own website, than be another edition
         | lost among many in PG's huge catalog.
         | 
         | PG does great work and we rely on them almost exclusively for
         | transcriptions. But we're two friends working towards to
         | different goals.
        
           | causality0 wrote:
           | _PG does great work and we rely on them almost exclusively
           | for transcriptions_
           | 
           | Until I got to this part of the comment I was thinking "Yay,
           | an alternative to PG's godawful OCR transcriptions". Why
           | would you reuse the worst part of Project Gutenberg?
        
             | jxramos wrote:
             | It's a starting point is what I think they're getting at.
             | Preclassification which a human then corrects--we're
             | effectively talking about a labor saving device for an
             | otherwise tedious task.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | Can confirm. Think of it like using an AI to do an
               | initial pass at a conference transcription and then
               | correcting the typos, rather than doing the whole
               | transcription by hand. Even if it's only 85% accurate,
               | you've still saved a boatload of time.
               | 
               | When I did "The Valley of Fear" as my first project, the
               | PG text was used as the base, but if I encountered any
               | kind of ambiguity in the text, I consulted at least a
               | half-dozen other versions of the text via Google Books
               | scans for agreement.
               | 
               | The team is also very particular about only using
               | editions that have entered into the public domain. So if
               | the first edition of a book just entered public domain,
               | you _must_ make sure that what you have produced only
               | uses text from the first edition, and that you haven 't
               | inadvertently used a later edition as a base that may
               | have included subsequent editorial changes.
        
               | causality0 wrote:
               | So they're actually reading the texts and correcting the
               | mistakes?
        
               | acabal wrote:
               | Yes - that's one of the main points of the project!
        
           | aclindsa wrote:
           | Would it be possible to contribute back the corrections from
           | proofreading so that others could benefit, if not some of the
           | fancier formatting/fonts/etc.? Or is that prohibitively
           | difficult due to what is effectively a one-way conversion
           | from PG to your own format?
        
         | JohnAaronNelson wrote:
         | RTFA
        
           | aclindsa wrote:
           | May I ask why you felt rudeness was appropriate here?
           | 
           | I had read the link and it was not obvious upon reading it
           | why contributing back to Project Gutenberg did not make sense
           | for them. In particular, I did not understand why it would
           | not be desirable to contribute back corrections to the text
           | to the "upstream" and original source so that others could
           | also benefit - I did not see any contradiction between doing
           | so and the goals/benefits stated on their page.
        
       | spicymaki wrote:
       | This is important preservation work. Thank you!
        
       | dimmke wrote:
       | This is great but want to clarify - Kindles do support Epub now.
       | Which is great. Because I love the Kindle ecosystem and I really
       | like a project like this.
       | 
       | How do you handle translated works? Like The Communist Manifesto
       | was written in German. Would something like Death in Venice be in
       | the works too?
        
         | acabal wrote:
         | They only fake support epub - when you use "send to Kindle" to
         | send an epub, it gets quietly converted by Amazon to either
         | mobi or azw3 (I don't know exactly which of those two but it
         | seems like azw3 is more likely). I assume they use kindlegen to
         | do the conversion, even though Calibre does better azw3
         | conversion. If you're using SE ebooks on a Kindle, you should
         | simply download our premade azw3 files as I guarantee they'll
         | be better than whatever Amazon does to an epub sent over email.
         | 
         | We accept translations into English, but the translations need
         | to have been published before 1927 for them to be in the US
         | public domain. See our collections policy:
         | https://standardebooks.org/contribute/collections-policy
         | 
         | The _Communist Manifest_ is already in our catalog:
         | https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/karl-marx_friedrich-engels...
        
           | hanche wrote:
           | Is the tool to convert to azw3 part of the toolkit available
           | to contributors, or do you perform that conversion in-house
           | after the volunteer has made the epub?
        
             | acabal wrote:
             | Our source format is epub, and the conversion is part of
             | our toolkit. Azw3 conversion is done using Calibre:
             | https://github.com/standardebooks/tools
        
       | LazyEvaluation wrote:
       | I know it's not a library in the conventional sense. But it would
       | be a bit proper to separate things in to fiction and non-fiction
       | at the very top level.
        
       | auxym wrote:
       | A bit late here, but by any chance, does anyone know of a similar
       | site for non-english high-quality ebooks? Specifically, I'd
       | really like to read some french classics in the original french.
       | I know Project Gutenberg, but quality is variable compared to
       | Standard Ebooks.
        
         | urlisse wrote:
         | 1. https://www.bibebook.com
         | 
         | 2. https://www.ebooksgratuits.com ( bigger catalog)
        
           | auxym wrote:
           | Thanks, will have a look!
        
       | dontcare007 wrote:
       | Another good place for free books:
       | https://www.baen.com/catalog/category/view/s/free-library/id...
        
       | billybuckwheat wrote:
       | This is a great project. It's really prodded me to reread some
       | classics, and read more than a few I've never tried to tackle
       | before.
       | 
       | I really should donate a few dollars to the project to show my
       | appreciation and to try to help (in a small way) keep it going.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-25 23:01 UTC)