[HN Gopher] The Creepiest Cycling Condition: Shermer's Neck
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       The Creepiest Cycling Condition: Shermer's Neck
        
       Author : dsego
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2022-07-24 18:05 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.welovecycling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.welovecycling.com)
        
       | Pakdef wrote:
       | Apparently, the side effects can last multiple months but the
       | condition could heal in a few weeks in some cases:
       | https://felixwong.com/2015/08/my-experience-with-shermers-ne...
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | Race Across America probably should be outlawed. Like the
       | Cannonball Express it's just dangerous ... dangerous to the
       | riders.
       | 
       | And I am absolutely fascinated by it.
       | 
       | I had not known about it until I past a woman biking across
       | Arizona with a support car following. When I got to the campsite
       | (vacation with the family), I googled and determined she was
       | participating in a race called "RAAM". I couldn't believe it was
       | a non-stop race across the U.S. Sleep, or any kind of rest, is a
       | liability.
       | 
       | I guess I had expected the race to be broken up across a dozen
       | days or so with checkpoints and times taken and added to declare
       | the winner by race's end. But, no, it's just crazy.
       | 
       | And I guess it's the thing that endears me so much to our
       | species.
        
         | 4gotunameagain wrote:
         | why should it be outlawed if it only affects negatively the
         | people who willingly decide to do it?
         | 
         | While the cannonball express is definitely dangerous to others,
         | if someone wants to ruin their neck cycling across the globe,
         | be my guest who am I to say no
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | A counterargument could be that engaging in certain reckless
           | behaviors will require paying higher insurance or taxes to
           | cover the inevitable permanent disabilities. Much like
           | smoking premiums.
        
         | DeWilde wrote:
         | If its dangerous only to drivers, and the drivers are aware of
         | the dangers, why should it be banned?
         | 
         | Some people love spending their time doing stuff that is
         | inherently dangerous, even if it means that they might not live
         | as long as the rest of us. And why stop them, seems like hell
         | to be forced to live a long but unfulfilling life. We all die
         | in the end anyway.
        
           | andrewflnr wrote:
           | Being "aware of" a risk is not enough to make it disappear.
           | It might not be enough to even mitigate it. Why would you
           | think that?
           | 
           | Also, no, most drivers are obviously not aware of the
           | dangers. Anyone on two wheels who wants to survive treats
           | every car driver as a dangerous psychopath until proven
           | otherwise.
        
         | thegrimmest wrote:
         | Who are you to moralize/legislate what people should and
         | shouldn't be able to do with their own bodies? These people
         | aren't harming anyone but themselves. Even if just about
         | everyone agrees with you, no one has any reasonable claim to
         | ownership over another's person.
        
           | lesstyzing wrote:
           | >> These people aren't harming anyone but themselves.
           | 
           | If they're driving on public roads and are sleep deprived
           | then they are endangering others.
        
         | carlineng wrote:
         | Radiolab did an episode profiling Jure Robic [1], a former
         | member of the Slovenian special forces who took up ultra-
         | endurance cycling and won RAAM 5 times. It's a mind-boggling
         | story. Tragically, Jure was killed by a car while training in
         | Slovenia in 2010.
         | 
         | [1]: https://radiolab.org/episodes/91709-limits
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | I generally agree with others replying that people should be
         | allowed to harm themselves with something like RAAM if they're
         | doing so willingly. However I'm not sure if it's ethical to
         | _support_ others harming themselves. Rides like RAAM have way
         | more support staff than riders.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | So what muscles are responsible for this? Upper traps?
       | 
       | Could bad posture behind a computer cause the same problem?
       | 
       | By the way, Michael Shermer is quite an interesting person:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shermer
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cube00 wrote:
         | Spare a thought for those on exercise desk bikes _and_ using a
         | computer.
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | Too many to list, most of which no normal person has ever heard
         | of, but basically all muscles responsible for neck extension.
         | They may have names like transversospinalis, semispinalis, and
         | multifidus.
         | 
         | Yes it could, but usually people will take a break at the
         | computer before it affects them. I'm 38 and have been
         | programming for 20+ years without issue, my posture is sort of
         | leaning back in the chair, definitely not leaning forward with
         | heard forward.
        
       | TrueGeek wrote:
       | I did Paris Brest Paris in 2019 (finished in 89 hours) and got
       | Sherman's neck for the very end. I saw other riders suffering
       | from it, and one woman who had put her hair in a long braid and
       | then fastened that somehow to hold up her head.
       | 
       | Luckily, for me, it came at the very end and I was able to
       | finish.
       | 
       | Worse was that I compressed my ulnar nerve and had loss of
       | feeling and tingling in my left arm for 6 months.
       | 
       | Lots of good memories from that ride.
        
         | cmgbhm wrote:
         | Glad that worked out for you. The ulnar nerve issue is no joke.
         | I compressed both of mine on my first 4h ride. It took 2mons to
         | get back to guitar with special clip picks and more bike fit
         | knowledge and strength training than I expected.
         | 
         | Even finding a diagnosis was a struggle.
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | First of all congratulations for completing the Paris Brest
         | Paris. I had a much smaller problem with a new bike. I
         | compressed the tendon of my left thumb on a 6 hours ride
         | (imagine a 89 hours one. ) It got too weak to open a
         | clothespin, no chance to shift a MTB derailleur. It took one
         | month to fully recover. I permanently solved it by raising the
         | handlebar to transfer some load to the back. My question: do
         | you know if some long distance riders compromise the setup of
         | their bikes to lower the chances of those kind of physical
         | problems?
        
       | SnowHill9902 wrote:
       | Adds to the list of reasons why not to cycle which includes
       | erectile dysfunction from pinched pudendal nerve, and traffic
       | accidents where you die and the car may not even notice.
        
         | seadan83 wrote:
         | Most reasons to not cycle are not inherent to the bike. The
         | same cannot be said about cars, they are inherently dangerous
         | to all road users (and as a society we paper this over to make
         | driving feel way safer than it actually is)
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | You aren't going to pinch a nerve from riding the bike 30 mins
         | to work or the store, especially considering with commuting
         | biking you are standing up off the pedals stopped pretty
         | frequently.
         | 
         | Traffic accidents sure are bad but you can identify safe
         | routes. For example I avoid arterials and opt for those 25mph
         | residential roads that run parallel, and those are extremely
         | safe. The number of cyclists that have died last year in my
         | city of some 4 million people is also about a dozen people, and
         | its not clear whether confounding factors were involved (e.g.
         | alcohol or drugs or lack of helmet or nonddevensive/lack of
         | awareness biking given the not so small homeless population
         | that rides bikes in varying states of sobriety in my city).
        
           | andbberger wrote:
           | are you the ghost of john forester or what? blaming cycling
           | fatalities on a mythical vilified population of homeless
           | cyclists who you assume to not be sober instead of the
           | traffic engineers who designed your city is both incredibly
           | misguided and prejudiced. shame on you.
        
         | carlineng wrote:
         | Good thing there is an enormous list of reasons to cycle that
         | far outweigh the downsides.
         | 
         | Shermer's Neck is a condition that impacts a very small
         | percentage of cyclists, and only those who choose to
         | participate in the most extreme of events like Race Across
         | America or Paris-Brest-Paris.
        
           | SnowHill9902 wrote:
           | I don't know. I'd much rather walk or run. At least from a
           | paleo argument it's a better option.
        
             | cycomanic wrote:
             | What is a paleo argument?
        
               | SnowHill9902 wrote:
               | Given a list of options of ways to achieve a goal, prefer
               | the one which would have been most natural to a human
               | throughout the last 100,000 years except for the last
               | 100.
               | 
               | Need to eat 3,000 kcal? Beef and vegetables would be more
               | natural than a Big Mac. Need to go somewhere 3 km away?
               | Waking or jogging would be more natural than cycling or
               | using the car.
        
         | pdxandi wrote:
         | There are saddles you can buy to help with pinching. I
         | personally use the ISM Adamo.
        
       | TedShiller wrote:
        
         | karamanolev wrote:
         | What value does this comment bring?
         | 
         | Aside from being super obvious, it's the easiest thing to do,
         | but also brings no value. Is it helpful for software engineers
         | to just "stop being in front of the computer" when faced with
         | RSI? How are they going to feed their family? Same for pro
         | riders or any other professional people who can't "just stop".
         | Pushing the limits has value in that sense.
         | 
         | But it can also be an intrinsic goal. These people are out
         | there to push themselves beyond any previous limits. It really
         | does help you discover things about yourself and your body in
         | ways not many other things do. The sense of achievement and the
         | memories created are priceless, but also helps you put so many
         | other things in perspective with your newly minted experience.
         | 
         | I find it very defeatist and boring to say "just quit" when
         | faced with difficulties.
        
       | dwd wrote:
       | Michael Shermer who this was named after is quite an interesting
       | person and his podcast is worth a listen. He generally talks to
       | the same group of public intellectuals you see on Lex Fridman,
       | Sam Harris, etc and often asks different questions.
        
       | jbirer wrote:
       | I see people who overexert themselves in sports not too
       | dissimilar from drug addicts. They are coping with some internal
       | issue by forcing their bodies to produce endorphins & adrenaline,
       | to the point of giving themselves diseases like this one
       | mentioned. They need professional help and take more time to
       | recover.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | Bicyclists seem, to me, to be a very certain and peculiar breed
         | of obsessives.
        
           | system2 wrote:
        
             | Sentino wrote:
             | Srsly?
             | 
             | How often are they a problem?
             | 
             | Also it's legal and expected
        
               | zdragnar wrote:
               | It depends on the local culture. You've gotta be pretty
               | dedicated to ride a bike in the metro near me on some
               | streets, because the layout isn't very friendly to
               | bikers.
               | 
               | Those that do seem to rarely obey traffic laws- the
               | number of near-miss incidents alone caused by bicyclists
               | who run red lights or weave in and out of lanes, up onto
               | sidewalks, then back down into traffic is too damn high,
               | to borrow a meme.
               | 
               | The city would be a whole lot better off somewhere in the
               | middle- more room for dedicated biking, and more
               | enforcement of safe behavior.
               | 
               | It's not just the roads either, unfortunately. There's a
               | shared walking and bicycling path that runs around a lake
               | in the city. It's fairly popular, but I've never been
               | more than twice because I find walking there is
               | unpleasant. You can only get nearly clipped by bikers
               | flying past, not staying in their lane, just so many
               | times.
        
               | egypturnash wrote:
               | To be quite honest, it is very useful for cyclists to
               | behave this way when they have to constantly fight
               | traffic because it makes drivers give them a wider berth.
               | You don't know what that bike's about to do, so you _stay
               | the fuck away_ instead of blazing by too close.
               | 
               | On the other hand, people who can't bother to get a bell
               | for their bike and zoom past pedestrians are dickheads.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Honestly no bike belongs mixing with pedestrians any more
               | than any other vehicle bell or no bell. A pedestrian is
               | meandering along at 1-3MPH a bike is comparatively racing
               | at 10-20.
               | 
               | Even at only 10MPH you are closing on a slow walker by at
               | least 13 feet per second. If they notice you 60 feet
               | behind they have less than 5 seconds to react. If they
               | don't notice you and you don't maneuver you'll hit them.
               | If you maneuver and they also try to get out of the way
               | you might still hit them.
               | 
               | I've had multiple bikes zip by with very little space
               | where a slight step to the side would have let to
               | disaster. Honestly anyone caught biking on the sidewalk
               | ought to have their equipment impounded and sold.
        
               | Sentino wrote:
               | On one side it's expected from a biker to drive straight
               | etc. And then it's expected to drive around plenty of
               | obstacles on the bike lane.
               | 
               | But yes we should rebuild cities to accommodate bikes
               | first and then see if cars still have space.
        
             | _dain_ wrote:
             | "car roads"? there is no such thing, aside from motorways,
             | on which cyclists are banned by law.
        
               | egypturnash wrote:
               | There are definitely roads where bikes are allowed, maybe
               | even with a designated lane, that are not safe ones to
               | cycle on.
        
               | Moru wrote:
               | But in no case is it the bikers fault.
               | 
               | If the road is allowed for bicycles, the cars have to
               | take care not to run them over. Most roads are perfectly
               | safe for bicycles, it's the cars that isn't safe for
               | them. Best is to plan a city so you can bicycle wherever
               | you need to, this leads to less cars in the city which is
               | good for you that need your car to get home.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | You find them in any sport. Weightlifting is another one
           | that's easy to see. Go to any gym for a few weeks, you will
           | pretty quickly identify a handful of people who seem to live
           | there.
        
           | freetime2 wrote:
           | Being a low-impact endurance sport means that cycling is
           | conducive to really large training volumes relative to other
           | sports. I recall reading that pro cyclists will spend 30+
           | hours a week on the bike.
           | 
           | Triathletes are even more crazy, though.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | Honestly after a week or two riding a bike you will get to
             | that point. You crank out 30 miles in two hours and you
             | will go "well that felt like a jog lets do another 30 miles
             | right now"
        
         | alar44 wrote:
         | Agreed. "Yeah so I was running a marathon and had to piss so
         | you just go while you're running, everybody does it."
         | 
         | Cooooolsies...
        
           | _dain_ wrote:
           | Philippides probably pissed himself while he was running from
           | the battle of Marathon to Athens. then again he also died at
           | the end ...
           | 
           | think of it as a libation to his memory.
        
         | angrysaki wrote:
         | I'm sure there's some truth to this but I don't think that is
         | what is happening in this case. From what I can gather, this is
         | about people who trained for a goal, and during the event an
         | unexpected "weak link" in the chain gave out so they found a
         | mechanical solution.
         | 
         | I'm sure if most of them had gotten this during training, they
         | would have taken the time to recover.
        
         | vocram wrote:
         | Drug addicts? Why not just addicted?
         | 
         | Differently from sport, there's no such thing as low drug usage
         | being healthy.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | I'm not really sure there's any meaningful distinction to be
           | made? Like sport, billions of people use drugs for their
           | health without becoming addicted every day. And like sport,
           | the addicts are only a small minority.
        
           | __alexs wrote:
           | Define drug?
        
         | hasmolo wrote:
         | i think it's more than that. i see two major groups, addicts
         | and users.
         | 
         | the addicts _must_ ride every day, the ride is a major mental
         | and physical block to them feeling good.
         | 
         | the users ride to burn out anxious energy, it doesn't need to
         | be daily, and you focus on sustainable riding so that your
         | coping mechanism doesn't stop working.
         | 
         | i've been in both groups, and tend toward the second now a
         | days. my uncle is in his 60s and his "ideal" day is wake up a
         | 5am, ride till noon, eat one meal, go to bed. his kids
         | recognized this and a few have become users while a few are
         | addicted to it.
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | We glorify grit and celebrate toughness. My view is
         | consequently people now try to tough their way through
         | something they are simply not trained for, up to & beyond self-
         | destruction. They have come to think grit is the key, when in
         | reality it's training + grit.
         | 
         | Ironically, it's easier to ruin your body for an afternoon than
         | to train diligently for years, so the problem has persisted.
        
           | kelseyfrog wrote:
           | Absolutely. It's common to be reminded of one's failure to
           | the tune of, "you didn't try hard enough." For some people,
           | myself included, the response it to break themselves during
           | the next attempt.
        
       | chriscjcj wrote:
       | A photo in the article (https://reportage.transcontinental.cc/wp-
       | content/uploads/201...) showing someone suffering from the
       | condition shows that he also suffers from another condition
       | common to many cyclists: a brutal case of farmer's tan.
       | 
       | An extreme case here:
       | https://server6.intermedia.ge/pictures/original/503/503371.j...
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | Suffers from? Every cyclist I know wears their nice, crisp tan
         | lines with pride!
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | I've gotten more farmer's tan from a single 100km ride than the
         | cyclist in the photo. That second one though... wow!
        
       | vehemenz wrote:
       | I've felt neck fatigue around ~250 miles in a day. My solution is
       | to regularly look down when it's safe to do so (not drafting).
       | 
       | One idea I have is a Hololens-like setup, with a camera mounted
       | to the front of the bike to allow the cyclist to ride in a "head
       | down" position for long stretches, preventing neck fatigue and
       | increasing aerodynamics.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Bicyclists should just sit more upright so the neck doesn't
         | have to be fatiqued in the first place. If the purpose of the
         | ride is for training/health/cardio, then you should want more
         | wind resistance rather than less. It means you get to burn the
         | same amount of calories in less real time and you can either
         | chose to go on and burn more calories or do with that time
         | however you like. If you aren't racing you should be avoiding
         | all the 1% gain type stuff anyhow because it just makes you
         | workout needlessly longer for a huge chunk of change, if the
         | workout is what you are going for when riding a bike.
        
           | seadan83 wrote:
           | Body aerodynamics is more like the 30% gain territory, body
           | geometry is the single most important factor for
           | aerodynamics.
           | 
           | I don't think it wise to think you know what is best for
           | others. Longer is better cardio and needed for endurance
           | training. Less watts wasted in air resistance just means you
           | are riding faster. "It never gets easier, you just get
           | faster"
        
             | raziel2701 wrote:
             | They only said that if your goal in cycling is to get fit
             | and health benefits then it makes the most sense to get a
             | comfortable bike.
             | 
             | I think it makes sense to fight back against the common
             | recommendations you get from bike communities who are
             | obsessing about weight and efficiency. If you are seeking
             | to get fit by riding a bike, get a heavy bike. You'll do
             | more work and you'll get stronger.
        
           | vehemenz wrote:
           | There are a few problems with this idea.
           | 
           | A forward position is much faster, both in terms of
           | aerodynamics and the muscle groups involved with the pedal
           | stroke. It allows even a relatively unfit cyclist to ride
           | 20mph quite easily, rather than 13-14mph.
           | 
           | This also means you can go further on a single ride. The
           | purpose might be training, but you can't go very far on an
           | upright bicycle--after 2 or 3 hours, there is quite a
           | difference.
           | 
           | Sitting upright puts more pressure on the sitbones. In a
           | forward position, you can distribute the weight among the
           | saddle, hands, and pedals. Again, this allows for longer,
           | more productive rides.
        
         | beering wrote:
         | Would belay glasses work?
        
       | pge wrote:
       | Michael Shermer, for whom this condition is named, is also a
       | prolific science journalist: long-time columnist for Scientific
       | American and author of several books about pseudoscience.
        
       | uwagar wrote:
       | perhaps the covid vaccine is triggering it more often now.
        
       | peteradio wrote:
       | Sounds like a well contrived urban myth. I can't stop laughing.
        
         | imperialdrive wrote:
         | Watch some footage on the cycling that leads to it, and your
         | laugh may turn into a gawk.
        
       | fny wrote:
       | Is there anyway to prevent such a thing from happening in the
       | first place?
        
       | GekkePrutser wrote:
       | I also had some neck issues when I swam a lot. I don't like to
       | put my head under water and I don't know the front crawl, though
       | I can do the breaststroke very quickly, even keep up with a lot
       | of front crawl swimmers. It does take a lot more energy to do
       | that but I did it as exercise so that was the point. I don't care
       | about any kind of competitiveness in sport. The only reason I'd
       | keep up with the crawl swimmers is because they tend to complain
       | about sharing the lane otherwise.
       | 
       | But constantly having my neck tilted up to the 'stop' did give me
       | an itchy and stiff neck, often lasting the day after the swim.
       | 
       | I hike now for exercise as I moved to a mountainous country, glad
       | I don't have that issue anymore.
        
       | ghostly_s wrote:
       | "We're all susceptible to what our bodies tell us. When there's a
       | strange pain or sickness, our bodies are hinting at us that there
       | should be something done about it," the article opens, then goes
       | on to uncritically describe people using alarming techniques to
       | power through with a grueling activity which has just caused a
       | serious injury.
       | 
       | Spending 8 days in near-constant intense aerobic activity on 1
       | hour of sleep is likely to cause lifelong health repercussions.
       | We should not be glamorizing these people.
        
       | nope96 wrote:
       | I ended up with a devastating sudden neck injury that seemed
       | computer related. Had noticed when I'd go to turn my neck,
       | occasionally it would not actually turn, and I'd hear a 'crunch'
       | noise. No pain. One day, it did hurt, and for the next year I
       | could not really sit or stand without feeling extreme neck
       | fatigue after a few minutes.
       | 
       | 10 years later I have not fully recovered. Doctors couldn't help
       | (or see anything wrong on MRI), but said a lifetime of sitting in
       | front of a screen 8 to 12 hours a day was probably the culprit.
       | Solution was, unfortunately, to quit working. I'm typing this
       | sideways laying down on a couch. If your neck starts to act
       | funny, give it a rest!
       | 
       | (Building some contraption with PVC pipes as in this article had
       | not occurred to me, but it seems like it would just lead to other
       | muscles being overused, instead, with new injury somewhere else
       | eventually)
        
         | prox wrote:
         | Have you as a therapy tried strengthening your core/serratus
         | muscles as a therapy?
        
           | nope96 wrote:
           | Sort of. I'm not sure what muscles were being targeted, but I
           | went to two different physical therapists who both showed me
           | the same set of exercises.
           | 
           | I did not see any improvement, (the second time things
           | briefly got worse), but I admit I get frustrated quickly, and
           | did not stick with it long enough. I was never sure I was
           | "doing it right."
           | 
           | Thought about trying again, at home, but I don't know what is
           | safe to try. When this started, I'd bought a neck pain book
           | (written in the early 2000's) that had example exercises. I
           | showed the 1st physical therapist (a PhD), and he said "Oh
           | no, don't do those exercises, we don't do those any more.
           | That will make things worse!". So I'm leery of trying random
           | youtube video exercises... and due to Covid, not quite ready
           | yet to go to in-person PT again.
        
             | AQuantized wrote:
             | I've had similar issues and started with simply lying down
             | and holding my head a few mm off the ground and holding for
             | 10 - 30 seconds. You may have to begin with only a few
             | seconds if your neck is very weak and build up very slowly.
             | 
             | Beyond that simply doing more exercise helped, I stopped
             | focusing on my neck specifically after the initial stage.
             | Swimming is great since it reduces load.
        
               | nope96 wrote:
               | Yeah, this was actually one of the exercises I was shown,
               | but it was explained that a key part was that I did NOT
               | use certain muscles while doing it.
               | 
               | I don't remember exactly - but the idea was, if you could
               | feel them bulge in the front of your neck as you lifted
               | your head, you were doing it wrong - you did NOT want to
               | use that muscle group.
               | 
               | (I should have taken notes when doing PT, I wish I could
               | remember all this now)
        
               | naasking wrote:
               | Strengthening the muscles is definitely the answer, the
               | only question is which muscles actually became injured
               | and weak. PT is changing pretty fast these days so I
               | expect it's hard to find a good one that's up to date.
               | 
               | As general advice, almost everyone these days has some
               | variation of upper crossed syndrome given the way they
               | use laptops and phones, so upper and mid lats, rotator
               | cuff muscles and some neck stabilizers are weak, which
               | leads to slouched posture. I can't say this is
               | specifically the type of corrections you need, but
               | hopefully this useful routine will help otherd avoid such
               | problems (I'm not affiliated it's just a good video):
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/i1tjJGGcoYs
        
             | prox wrote:
             | Yeah, there is a lot of stuff floating around. I tried 3
             | therapists for a similar type of ailment and none really
             | worked, the last one was best by just guiding me slowly as
             | you do need to "build up" back to a body functionality. For
             | me it was walking properly (heel to toe) that slowly got me
             | back into normalcy.
             | 
             | Brent brookbush is pretty good institute that helped me
             | gain insight with a strong evidence based focus. YouTube
             | channels tend to be copycat videos that really don't
             | address all the different options and modalities.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | Even with a standing desk you can have issues from doing
         | nothing but one thing for too long. I've had a PT recommend I
         | take a break to stretch my wrists, walk around, and focus my
         | eyes to infinity every 20 minutes or so. I bet almost no one is
         | bothering with that; its no wonder so many people have chronic
         | pain when they've spent their entire life being generally
         | inflexible, sitting for long periods of time in a small handful
         | of positions, and hardly ever walking around.
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | I had a similar experience getting out of the military. I had a
         | known back injury, but nobody could tell why it was manifesting
         | the way it was. I eventually ended up at a sleep doctor because
         | I refused to be put on opioids but could not sleep. I was put
         | on Gabapentin, or rather over-dosed as this use was off-label.
         | The physical therapist noticed a change in my range, and that
         | my back could suddenly "pop" and release tension. Three years
         | later a chiropractor discovered the source of my sciatic nerve
         | pain: a fractured disk that had healed over my sciatic nerve
         | that caused all the rest of my muscles to tense up. My life is
         | mostly normal now that I have some tools to cope with the
         | discomfort when it creeps up, allowing me to head off any
         | potential pain.
         | 
         | I guess my point in sharing this is that nerve pain can be
         | _very_ hard for doctors to diagnose, much less treat, but don
         | 't give up.
        
           | willhinsa wrote:
           | How did the chiropractor discover that? Did they get imaging
           | done?
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | All around training is very important if you want to avoid
       | injury, particularly if you're going to do things like try to
       | ride 1,000 miles in one push. For this condition in particular,
       | there are plenty of exercises one could do. These look good.
       | 
       | https://www.iron-neck.com/blogs/news/best-neck-exercises-for...
       | 
       | Most people assume the only goal of training is to improve
       | performance in one's particular sport, but in reality, one-sided
       | training creates imbalances that can lead to injury, and a
       | central goal of any training program should be all-around
       | strength and flexibility.
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | I agree - weight lifting and core exercises have had huge
         | benefits for me on longer rides. Whereas previously I would
         | start to start to get uncomfortable at the end of 4+ hour rides
         | with a sore neck, hands, and lower back - I have found that
         | those symptoms have pretty gone away completely after adoption
         | a strength training routine. It's made what was already my
         | favorite activity even more enjoyable.
         | 
         | I think a lot of cyclists are afraid to put on muscle anywhere
         | other than their legs, for fear of gaining weight. But really
         | those fears are unfounded, and even a small amount of weight
         | training would help with both their speed and enjoyment of the
         | sport.
        
         | __alexs wrote:
         | If you only train one part of your body (and that's all a
         | single exercise like cycling is going to do for you), you're
         | setting yourself up for injuries down the road. I've seen it a
         | hundred times.
         | 
         | It's like putting a powerful engine in a stock Toyota Tercel.
         | What will you accomplish? You'll blow out the drive train, the
         | clutch, the transmission, etc., because those factory parts
         | aren't designed to handle the power of an engine much more
         | powerful than the factory installed engine.
         | 
         | Cycling basically only trains the biceps and to some extent,
         | the back muscles. What you really want to do is train your
         | entire body, all the major muscle groups (chest, back, abdomen,
         | legs, shoulders and arms) at the same time, over the course of
         | a workout. And don't forget your cardiovascular work! I'm proud
         | of you guys wanting to do this. Three cheers! Falling in love
         | with exercise, eating right, etc., is one of the greatest
         | things you can do for yourself. And you WILL fall in love with
         | it if you can just force yourself to stick with it a year or
         | two and experience the amazing progress you'll make.
        
           | teaearlgraycold wrote:
           | > Cycling basically only trains the biceps and to some
           | extent, the back muscles.
           | 
           | Not trying to call cycling a full body workout, but it
           | definitely does more than just biceps and back. What about
           | legs? Heart? Lungs?
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | I had this once, in circumstances unrelated to sport.
       | 
       | One time I got talked into going to a club - something I don't
       | normally do. It so happened that it was "goth night", so I
       | figured I would spend the night headbanging.
       | 
       | After a few hours, when the club was almost closing up I noticed
       | that something was off - my neck muscles felt weak. Next thing I
       | know I'm sitting at the side of the stage with my head down,
       | looking like a case of alcohol poisoning, and can't move.
       | 
       | I sat there for half an hour until I regained enough strength to
       | at least somehow make to the exit.
       | 
       | Gradually it went away but I only fully recovered the next
       | morning.
        
       | Rygian wrote:
       | My immediate reaction was that the creepy thing is not the
       | condition itself, but the mindset to duct-tape a PVC pipe to
       | their heads just so they can keep cycling.
       | 
       | Reminds me of another comment today elsewhere in HN citing the
       | classic "the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak."
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | I find it somewhat horrifying. The clearest indication to stop
         | something is for the body to literarily give up... And then to
         | jury rig something to go beyond what can be expected.
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | And it's not even like it happened near the end of the race and
         | he decided to power through it, which would be more
         | understandable. It happened 1000 miles into the race, with 2000
         | miles left to go! I cannot even imagine making the decision to
         | continue on at that point.
        
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