[HN Gopher] Porn use and men's and women's sexual performance
___________________________________________________________________
Porn use and men's and women's sexual performance
Author : jinjin2
Score : 108 points
Date : 2022-07-24 14:03 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cambridge.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cambridge.org)
| unknownsky wrote:
| I suspect this is because porn is usually (not always) made by
| men, for men. Women watching porn learn about what men like. Men
| watching porn get further entrenched in their own desires, and
| learn to expect that sex will play out in a way that they
| themselves prefer.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| Wife and I are in an open relationship, this is anecdotal: number
| of men she's hooked up with who get performance anxiety is
| massive like it's at least 60 to 70 percent of men who have a
| hard time getting and maintaining an erection.
| nonamenoslogan wrote:
| theplumber wrote:
| 1658512800 wrote:
| Have you considered that the primary partners in an open
| relationship can be both honest and secure within themselves?
| theplumber wrote:
| Then why does she feel the need to tell him that 70% of men
| do not function sexually?
|
| I think he is the insecure guy and she is selling him the
| "functionality" issue of her dates. To me it is obvious.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| Why would she be playing me? I often get videos with the
| men's consent (when she's found a guy who, ahem, functions)
| so I don't think there's anything to play me for.
| theplumber wrote:
| >> Why would she be playing me?
|
| To keep the status quo.
| imbnwa wrote:
| He already refuted your implicit gender assumption
| theplumber wrote:
| His wife meets only guys who cannot "function" sexually
| because most of the guys that get sexually involved do
| not function sexually, right? Is she that unlucky?
|
| His wife either assumes he's aware that's not really true
| or is taking him for a fool. Perhaps she is selling him
| the "didn't function" to spare her of the story
| telling/video tape. The trick is as old as the world.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| What's the status quo, exactly? You seem to be pitching a
| whole lot of negative assumptions for someone who knows
| nothing about me.
| theplumber wrote:
| >> What's the status quo, exactly?
|
| If your wife would tell you are mediocre compared with
| the guys she meets, would you still be "open" to the open
| relationship?
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| Or at least that's what she tells you.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| There was another HNer casting such aspersions before you who
| deleted their comment but it was also _not nice_.
|
| Honestly, folks, who hurt you and what makes you want to hurt
| others with this vile stuff? Be _kind_ please.
|
| Is it so unthinkable that women and men can go out there and
| be honest with each other?
| thunkshift1 wrote:
| edgy redditor who thinks he's being witty spotted
| superb-owl wrote:
| > The findings reveal the irony that porn - a male-dominated
| industry that targets a male-dominated audience - is associated
| with the erosion of the quality of men's sex lives and the
| improvement of women's sex lives
|
| I wonder if the effect would hold if there were more porn that
| caters to women. Or if consumption of romance novels has a
| similar but inverted effect.
| standardUser wrote:
| I know a lot of women who watch hardcore porn and no one who
| reads romance novels (that I know of!). I think there is plenty
| of room for more and better porn (for both women and men) but
| the idea that women don't want to see graphic sex is a myth.
| Comevius wrote:
| This wasn't in the paper, but men in general tend to be geared
| toward non-emotional stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their
| supernormal stimulus is hardcore and paraphilic porn for this
| reason, which then of course invokes unfavorable comparisons,
| because of how unrealistic they are.
|
| Women in general respond to emotional stimulus better. Their
| supernormal stimulus is erotic romance, also known to create
| unrealistic expectations, however these expectations are about
| men, not the readers themselves.
|
| I don't know porn much, but I know erotic romance, and it's
| central thesis is that it's a form of fantasy in which the MFC
| (main female character) is wanted by one, sometimes two (menage)
| and occasionally more (reverse harem) MMCs (main male
| characters). The allure is that she is the center of their world.
| HEA (happily ever after) is usually expected, especially for
| romance, and cheating is forbidden. Alpha males, billionaires,
| daddy and stepbrother types are the most popular MMCs, along with
| aliens and monsters. The pattern is being able to tame, or at
| least withstand or even enjoy something possessive, dominant and
| aggressive. Another pattern is being able to lay down the burden
| of having to be in control, or having adult responsibilities
| altogether. Women also enjoy reading about gay men, reportedly
| because they don't have to identify with an MFC. In romance it is
| important to create an emotional framework that explains why the
| characters want each other, and in erotic romance this can happen
| through sexual discovery. Being fated to be together is a
| popular, if lazy framework. Erotica without an emotional
| framework is much less popular and hard to monetize because the
| payment processors are squeamish of adult content in the first
| place and the readers tend to feel bad about just erotica, which
| is a recipe for disaster. Reportedly erotic romance actually
| helps women improve their sexual life, perhaps because it
| encourages sexual discovery.
| fold3 wrote:
| >but men in general tend to be geared toward non-emotional
| stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their supernormal
| stimulus is hardcore and paraphilic porn for this reason, which
| then of course invokes unfavorable comparisons, because of how
| unrealistic they are.
|
| >Women in general respond to emotional stimulus better. Their
| supernormal stimulus is erotic romance, also known to create
| unrealistic expectations, however these expectations are about
| men, not the readers themselves.
|
| Do you have a source for this claim? I've heard this claim many
| times but I've never seen it proven scientifically.
| Comevius wrote:
| Humans are pretty complicated and arousal is a dynamic and
| malleable, biopsychosocial process. The individual
| differences, variability is what makes humans so successful.
|
| There is however truth to women relying on emotional context
| more for arousal, but remember it's a biopsychosocial
| process, so some of that is malleable.
|
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-009-0130-5
|
| Within the erotic fiction market stories with an emotional
| context tend to do better with both men and women, however
| men are less sensitive to the lack of such context. Erotic
| fanfiction is also very popular with women, reportedly
| because the characters and their relationships are already
| fleshed out. Also lesbian erotic fiction is two different
| market, men and lesbian women tend to like different stories.
| Stories that turn men into women (feminization, genderswap)
| are somewhat popular, but have a cis woman dominate a cis man
| and the readers vanish. Most women (more than 95%) don't care
| for it, even if a lot of men do (around 25%), however most of
| those men prefer watching femdom porn. You can sell maledom
| diaper age play erotica with shapeshifters or aliens, as long
| as there is a relationship to be developed between the
| characters, the female readership is there for it. The 18th
| best seller in erotica on Amazon is a monster romance book
| about milking monsters for a living, specifically because
| it's a love story between a human and a minotaur.
| dicytea wrote:
| Interestingly, I can see basically almost all of the tropes
| described in the last paragraph in many male-targeted
| manga/anime/visual novel with romance elements.
| renewiltord wrote:
| This strikes me as cultural. In the vein of "guys like drawing
| dicks on things". Not only do I not do that but I know few who
| do across many countries.
|
| This makes me think that this stuff is cultural mimicry
| resulting in conforming to local gender roles rather than a
| true gender divide.
|
| Happy to alter beliefs based on evidence that target this
| specific notion: that it is not subcultural.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Well I am only one example but I am transgender and started
| taking estrogen six months ago. As my dosage has increased,
| my porn preferences have changed. I used to be interested in
| live performance porn with no interest in comics, but
| recently the live performance stuff has lost almost all
| appeal and I have found that erotic comics are very
| interesting and arousing.
|
| So I think in some respects there are true differences
| between estrogen and testosterone. The rest of my life has
| stayed rather constant during this time, and I am 37 years
| old.
| hitekker wrote:
| Thanks for calling this out. The twitter meme of "anything
| I like is natural, anything I don't like is cultural" is
| pretty braindead. Even just one aspect of our biology like
| hormones impacts human behavior considerably.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Well there is this issue right of for example men saying
| women aren't good at programming because of hormones,
| which is nonsense. But the real answer isn't to assume
| anything in one direction or the other it is to look for
| scientific evidence. And in this case trans people going
| either way provide for some great information on this
| topic and trans people are also often very willing to
| talk about these changes (when its safe).
| techdragon wrote:
| I find these sorts of personal stories fascinating, it's a
| unique and valuable window into the hormonal tides our
| psychological foundations are floating upon.
|
| It would be wildly unethical to get people to take these
| out of hormonal manipulative drugs for purely a
| psychological study so the only way to get this sort of
| understanding is through people like yourself sharing your
| experience, so thank you for sharing your story!
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Yes! If you are in trans circles this stuff is all common
| knowledge as everyone wants to talk about this stuff, but
| I understand the stories don't get in to the wider
| discourse as often.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| I no longer remember who said that, but it was a woman who
| started taking testosterone for some medical reason. She
| said something like "wow, that was a change, suddenly I
| wanted to fight or fuck almost everyone I met".
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| Yes this is a well known effect of trans men taking
| testosterone. But trans issues in the wider discourse
| currently still boil down to some very basic stuff with
| no real nuance or understanding.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > "guys like drawing dicks on things"
|
| not only this is true across different cultures, but also
| throughout history.
|
| _1800 years old Roman penis carving near the Hadrian 's
| wall_
|
| https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/1V8zCb1tPjuWr0elUXTJhd.
| ..
|
| _1700 years old penis graffiti in ancient Rome_
|
| https://i0.wp.com/hyperallergic-
| newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/up...
|
| _Priapus weighting his dick in Pompei_
|
| https://images-
| cdn.bridgemanimages.com/api/1.0/image/600wm.X...
|
| _Penis Parinirvana, Edo Japanese scroll_
|
| https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2.
| ..
|
| _Phallic Fertility in the Ancient Near East and Egypt_
|
| https://encrypted-
| tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoS-c0...
|
| _winged penis in ancient India_
|
| https://www.michaellaird.com/pictures/3217_4.jpg?v=160027396.
| ..
|
| and so on
| x-shadowban wrote:
| >Priapus weighting his dick in Pompei
|
| Ah the origin of priapism, it all makes sense now. Not sure
| if that's an honor or not for the guy.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| the cult of Priapus it's very old, it was born in ancient
| Greece and the story says that he was the son of
| Aphrodite and another god (some say Dionysus some Zeus
| himself) and Hera, jealous of her unfaithful husband,
| gave him a grotesque look and a giant phallus.
|
| It became an auspicious of fertility during Alexander the
| Great and an important figure in Roman mythology.
|
| So he was born cursed, but then honored.
| elliekelly wrote:
| How do we know all of those artists were men?
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| because we know.
|
| At least for the things I've showed.
|
| If you know of female roman soldiers walking the
| Hadrian's wall, female painters in Pompei or female
| sculptors in ancient Egypt, I'm eager to read about'em.
|
| We know of women artists in Japanese Edo period, but they
| did not paint penises (AFAIK)
|
| But that's besides the point, the point wasn't if women
| sometimes draw penises, the point was that 'boys like to
| draw dicks on things' and historical records show that
| they kinda always did.
| renewiltord wrote:
| I'm specifically perfectly okay with "there exist guys who
| like doing this in every culture". I do not question that.
| It appears true even today. Personally I interpret "guys do
| X" as "among guys, doing X is common".
|
| For instance, if I said "guys do MDMA" and showed evidence
| of MDMA use in different cultures, you wouldn't be
| convinced right?
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| MDMA is not ancestral and you won't find guys doing it in
| ancient Babylon
|
| The point is boys have a penis and they draw penises.
|
| The penis has always been a symbol of fertility because
| it represents the seed. Semen in English translates to
| the Italian word seme (which means both sperm and seed)
| and, no wonders, it comes from Latin semen (pronounced
| /'se|me|n/), but the Latin word meant "from the same
| roots". In Greek it's sperma (pronounced /'sperma/), in
| Italian the same word is sperma, in English it's sperm.
|
| From sperma (seed) comes the Italian word speme, that
| means "hope"
|
| In Japanese, Chinese, Sino-Tibetan, Vietnamese, the word
| is always related to "sprout" and "grow".
|
| The Japanese kanji for sperm has two roots from Chinese
| alphabet, one means energy, perfect, the second means
| child.
|
| MDMA is just a synthetic drug of this time and place
| (mostly the west), it doesn't mean anything for anyone.
|
| So, while girls today are (mostly) free to express their
| artistic abilities, unlike the ancient past, they prefer
| to draw vulvas (in various forms from the most realistic
| to the metaphorical ones) and not dicks, because they do
| not have one.
| yamrzou wrote:
| > Happy to alter beliefs based on evidence that target this
| specific notion: that it is not subcultural.
|
| I won't address your particular example ("guys like drawing
| dicks on things"), but a similar one that I'm sure strikes
| you as cultural as well: the sex difference in toy
| preferences and play behaviour. The following is an excerpt
| from the book _Perspectives in Male Psychology_ by Louise
| Liddon and John Barry, which argues that it 's not
| subcultural:
|
| _"Some of the most intriguing evidence supporting the
| biological basis for sex differences in toy preferences
| comes, unexpectedly, from animals. There is a large body of
| evidence in animal research finding strong effects of
| prenatal and perinatal exposure to sex hormones on a range of
| sex-related behaviours, including juvenile play (Meyer-
| Bahlburg et al., 2004). Even more intriguingly, some research
| has found that male monkeys spend longer than females
| manipulating toys that move (wheeled toys or a ball), whereas
| female monkeys make more contact with a doll and cooking pot
| (Alexander & Hines, 2002; Hassett et al., 2008). Most
| intriguing of all is research that finds a sex difference in
| how primates play with objects: young females tend to play
| with objects as if they are nurturing an infant, and young
| males play with the same objects with more vigour, often as a
| weapon.
|
| Compelling evidence for a biological basis for play behaviour
| comes from a 14-year study of 'stick-carrying' in Ugandan
| chimpanzees (Kahlenberg & Wrangham, 2010). These chimps tend
| to use sticks to signal aggression, to find food (e.g. taking
| honey from a hole), during play or as 'stick-carrying'. This
| latter behaviour accounted for about 40% of stick-related
| behaviour, and was initially puzzling for researchers. The
| behaviour was observed to be most common in juvenile females,
| compared to weapon use, which was most common in males. The
| researchers noted that stick-carrying sometimes involved
| cradling of the stick, and the behaviour always occurred
| prior to the female's first birth and ended when the female
| became a mother. The researchers concluded that stick-
| carrying is a form of play-mothering. The sex difference in
| stick-carrying appeared to be spontaneous and without any
| teaching by adult chimps, making social learning an unlikely
| explanation.
|
| The overall explanation for the sex differences observed in
| these various human and non-human animal studies is that, in
| general, males are naturally predisposed to activities such
| as hunting and building, and females are naturally
| predisposed to nurturing the young (Hines, 2005).
| Extrapolating this evidence to humans, when boys are playing
| with cars this could be an expression of an innate tendency
| to track moving objects, as might be done in hunting, and
| when girls play with dolls this could be an expression of an
| innate tendency to nurturance and mothering."_
| heavenlyblue wrote:
| Humans have not been hunter-gatherers for 5 thousand years
| now. This is approximately the time it took to make wolves
| into dogs, domesticate cats, etc. You can't possibly assume
| everything men/women do is related to that time when we
| were primal humans because there was already thousands of
| years of evolution that separated us from those people.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| 5 thousand of years aren't nothing, but they aren't that
| much either, at least when it comes to the course of
| human evolution. We seem to be anatomically
| indistinguishable from people who lived not 5, but 50
| thousand years ago.
|
| There are obviously some newer adaptations (the ability
| to digest milk as adults in certain populations, or even
| sickle cell disease in West Africans), but they seem to
| be the exceptions to the rule.
| imtringued wrote:
| You're right, we are beyond melee weapons, real grown men
| play with guns.
| spfzero wrote:
| Interesting argument. Wolves and dogs are behaviorally
| almost identical. Domestic cats and wild cats are as
| well. If you've ever been around feral cats or stray
| dogs, you know to stay well clear of them, as they revert
| to wild behavior pretty quickly. Their domestic
| performances depend on their living experience being
| carefully controlled by humans.
| georgia_peach wrote:
| toiletfuneral wrote:
| sascha_sl wrote:
| That's the worst take I've read all month. Congrats!
|
| No, the feminist work about a facist patriarchy is not
| actually secretly a fetish novel about the submission fetish
| all women supposedly share.
| gweinberg wrote:
| Just some of them!
| collegeburner wrote:
| waow look what the science men found!!1 ask any young guy my age,
| our generation was mostly crippled by this shit. people was just
| too afraid to talk bc its one of the sacred cows of the sex-
| positive feminism movement. addiction to it is like cigarettes
| for ppl in the 60s, totally normal. its completely normal to hear
| a girl complain her bf having problems bc porn use, these are
| young ppl who should be 20 yrs away from ed. shits poison fr.
| vonseel wrote:
| People are always way less active today, which could explain
| some of the ED in 20-30 something range versus men that age 25+
| years ago. I think people can be too quick to point at porn as
| causing ED when it could be any combination of things (obesity,
| poor cardio health, nutrition, etc)
| [deleted]
| zasdffaa wrote:
| A question. I've no problem with hardcore porn but I'm put off by
| badly by some of what I assume to be porn oriented at men;
| completely emotionless robotic banging. Porn for women is much
| more affectionate and for me that makes it so much more
| enjoyable. I really want to see people genuinely having a good
| time or (to me) what's the point.
|
| I don't know if I'm unusual in this but I'd like to know what
| other people think. I seriously wonder if a lot of porn produced
| is aimed at what the studios think the audience want rather than
| actually finding out if it is. I could well be wrong though.
|
| No judgement on anyone for liking what I don't, that's fine.
|
| So, is it just me?
| ralusek wrote:
| I think I'm probably the other end of the spectrum. I'm
| perfectly content with just a close-up picture of a vagina.
| Penis going in and out of vagina in as high def as possible is
| basically optimal. If there's anything else in the scene my
| brain basically disregards it.
|
| This is the case for me about 75% of the time, unless I'm in "a
| mood."
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I've no problem with hardcore porn but I'm put off by badly
| by some of what I assume to be porn oriented at men; completely
| emotionless robotic banging. Porn for women is much more
| affectionate and for me that makes it so much more enjoyable. I
| really want to see people genuinely having a good time or (to
| me) what's the point.
|
| Counterpoint: I find this stuff creepy and voyeuristic. I think
| watching porn to watch normal loving couples having straight
| sex is somewhere between peeping in windows to watch a healthy,
| normal family have dinner (and to fantasize about being them),
| or like going to the circus to watch nonathletic people
| exercise.
|
| Watching porn to see sexual athletes and performers do what
| they do for a living, and enjoying the unusual and exceptional,
| and not really thinking that its something that you're
| obligated to imitate or emulate, for me, is the least creepy
| perspective. The opposite, to me, is a strange insistence that
| the only porn that is worthwhile is porn that is held up as a
| model, and that people who don't see pornography as a model are
| perverted. For me, that's like saying it's perverted to watch a
| trapeze artist, or a gymnast.
| standardUser wrote:
| I think the massive increase in amateur porn is filling this
| gap. Much of the content on PornHub is now amateur, and there
| are camming sites like Chaturbate that feature real couples
| having live sex, and of course OnlyFans.
|
| I think there are plenty of amazing "mainstream" porn scenes
| out there too, but they tend to get lost in an endless sea of
| repetitive sub-par pro porn.
| ldjb wrote:
| Interesting question. A few thoughts:
|
| Obviously everyone's tastes are different but, broadly
| speaking, the most popular porn videos do not tend to be the
| most romantic or sensual. That said, there are many niches in
| porn, and videos made for women can be very successful within
| that niche.
|
| Producers are incentivised to create videos that will sell.
| It's not much good if a video is popular on free tube sites but
| nobody pays for it. There is evidence to suggest that women are
| a lot less likely to pay for porn than men are, and there is
| therefore a lot less of an incentive to create porn for that
| demographic.
|
| Creating romantic/passionate porn is not easy! The script and
| casting (amongst many other things) need to be just right for
| it to work. Therefore it's going to take more time and effort.
| So many studios will focus on mass producing videos. There's an
| obvious trade-off between quality and quantity, and many
| studios will have found that it's just more profitable to churn
| out videos as quickly as possible.
| dragontamer wrote:
| Maybe go for erotic novels (or Visual Novels to video games)
| instead?
|
| Male oriented erotica in book form is rare in US culture, but
| common in the Japanese light novel / visual novel community.
|
| Books focus on characters thoughts and emotions because that's
| the medium of words.
|
| -------
|
| Most book-based erotica seems to be aimed at female audiences
| for some reason, so I think there is a bit of a cultural
| expectation here.
|
| Still, with the growing popularity of erotic visual novels (and
| heck, just novels in general) I have to imagine that the male
| reader base exists out there.
|
| -----
|
| I'm not saying Hunniepop is the best written piece of
| literature I've seen. But there are words and emotions there,
| and a mild focus on what the various women want (albeit with
| the male sex fantasy slants).
|
| Since the majority of the game is in fact, reading mundane
| situations and figuring out which gifts work best for each girl
| (ie gameplay mechanic to force the players into reading the
| story), it forces the player to at least explore the female
| characters a bit before you get the porno scene.
| frebo wrote:
| I think this essay describes this phenomenon well, and its
| effects on intimacy: https://emmalindsay.medium.com/porn-makes-
| men-terrible-in-be...
|
| Some excerpts:
|
| > _Many young men will watch porn more often than they have sex
| with other humans. Their beliefs about sex will come from porn
| and not from interactions with real people_
|
| > _And, the real humans who they eventually have sex with
| suffer for it._
|
| > _Most porn is about watching women pretend to enjoy sex acts
| that are unpleasant to them. It doesn 't have to be this way,
| but it is._
|
| > _Men who watch this type of porn are basically being taught
| sexual practices that will not work in real life. Why does that
| matter? Well, if you 're an 18 year old virgin, the only moves
| you're learning are moves that will leave your partners
| miserable._
|
| > _More than that, however, is men become accustomed to
| watching women pretending to be turned on. Being good in bed,
| fundamentally, is about being able to read someone else, and
| men are learning false cues._
|
| > [...]
|
| > _Men become conditioned to watching women in pain pretending
| to be enjoying sex. How good an actress is your average porn
| actress? Good enough to cover up all the subtle cues that she's
| hurting? Good enough to be able to fake genuine sexual
| pleasure? I suspect not._
|
| > _This means that your average young man is starting at worse
| than zero when it comes to sex with women. If he 's having sex
| with a girl, and she's giving out cues that she's in pain
| (through her facial expression, or the noises she makes) he's
| going to think that's how sex should be because that's what he
| learned in porn. If she's genuinely turned on, he will not know
| how to identify it, because he's watched so many women
| pretending to be turned on that his ability to identify genuine
| pleasure has been scrambled. And, this is best case scenario
| porn. This is if he watched porn where the women were at least
| pretending to have a good time._
|
| > _More sadistic porn will teach young men to derive pleasure
| from causing women pain - and I 'm not talking about BDSM. I'm
| talking about "vanilla" porn where men fuck women in ways that
| hurt them._
| dragontamer wrote:
| I think this basically applies to all fictional works though.
|
| I can go on a rant (and in fact, I have multiple times) about
| how Iron Man and Batman have taught an entire generation of
| moviegoers about incredibly shitty corporate behavior.
|
| Instead of showing people the moral and just thing to do in
| company settings, people see the crap Batman or Ironman pulls
| (Iron Man literally killing a board member who ended up being
| a villain for example, or batman forcing his board and strong
| arming them out of the company).
|
| These are shown as heroic actions by the protagonist, but
| really would be the stuff of moral disaster in the real
| world.
|
| I've more or less accepted that most fiction is about doing
| amoral things that the author personally thinks is cool. But
| the authors understanding of morality in these situations is
| pretty bad in most cases, possibly because the author has
| little experience of corporate ethics (or in this topic,
| crazy large sexual harems and whatnot)
| zasdffaa wrote:
| This is just a bad feminists ant-porn rant. She can't mention
| porn without bringing in hurting women or sadism. I reject
| that this has anything useful related to my question. I
| reject this view that any but a small minority of men want to
| see such things.
|
| I ask about affection in sex and you post this?
| frebo wrote:
| It's relevant to your comment - the author is discussing
| why pornography doesn't depict people enjoying genuine
| sexual intimacy.
|
| Which parts of her essay do you believe are factually or
| logically incorrect?
| standardUser wrote:
| "Most porn is about watching women pretend to enjoy sex
| acts that are unpleasant to them. It doesn't have to be
| this way, but it is."
|
| It doesn't have to be this way, and it isn't. Amateur
| porn is on the rise and doesn't fit at all with most of
| the above anti-porn screed. There's always going to be
| awful porn, but there seems to be a lot of people who
| refuse to believe that there is also an near-endless
| supply homemade and semi-pro porn. It's easy to criticize
| porn (or _anything_ ) if you only look at the worst
| examples.
| jquaint wrote:
| From the paper
|
| > Accordingly, and contrary to what is often suggested in popular
| books on the psychology of pornography (e.g. Zimbardo & Coulombe,
| Reference Zimbardo and Coulombe2015), men who face sexual
| problems and choose to terminate porn use may experience only
| marginal improvements in their sexual lives (assuming that we can
| draw causal inferences from our findings); similarly, women who
| face sexual problems might be well advised not to consider porn
| use to be a sexual panacea.
|
| This is interesting for sure but you can't draw sweeping
| conclusions from this research.
| georgia_peach wrote:
| _The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times_
|
| Latest example: Taylorism, applied to the bedroom.
| superchroma wrote:
| "The results revealed a twofold phenomenon. Among men, a higher
| frequency of porn use and increased porn use over time were
| associated with lower levels of sexual self-competence, impaired
| sexual functioning, and decreased partner-reported sexual
| satisfaction. In contrast, among women, higher and increasing
| frequencies of porn use were associated with higher levels of
| sexual self-competence, improved sexual functioning, and enhanced
| partner-reported sexual satisfaction (for some aspects)."
| jinjin2 wrote:
| Interesting paradoxical conclusion:
|
| "The findings reveal the irony that porn - a male-dominated
| industry that targets a male-dominated audience - is associated
| with the erosion of the quality of men's sex lives and the
| improvement of women's sex lives."
| what-imright wrote:
| Yea that sentence shows a bias. Very shady
| superb-owl wrote:
| I think this actually makes a lot of sense.
|
| Porn is engineered to suit men's desires and tastes, rather
| than women's. Watching it teaches both groups to accept norms
| that are preferential to men. If you're a (hetero) man, this
| makes you a more selfish partner and vice versa for a woman.
| canjobear wrote:
| While this makes sense, it's not convincing to me because
| it seems that similar logic could be applied even if the
| observed results were the opposite. Ie if porn increased
| men's performance and decreased women's performance, that
| could also be explained from porn teaching norms that are
| preferential to men.
| fold3 wrote:
| Exactly my thoughts.
|
| Meanwhile, I think more straight cismen should read the sex
| section of women magazines (ELLE, Marie-Claire, etc) to get
| the basics of what women likes and wants.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Porn properly engineered to suit men's desires suck. This
| is just my experience but they don't work. Good porn has
| female audiences or are sometimes even authored by cis
| female person even when the product is classified as "for
| men". I don't know if opposite is true as well but this
| "porn is men's thing made by men" don't seem factual.
|
| Sorry if I'll be somehow offending trans or cat people by
| saying this, but not everyone has a concrete gender
| identification above life and always prefixing their
| thoughts with that.
| numpad0 wrote:
| > a male-dominated industry that targets a male-dominated
| audience
|
| Or this isn't reflecting the reality as we would think it is
| matbatt38 wrote:
| If the metric is partner-reported sexual satisfaction, it
| seems more likely to me that women's porn consumption
| increases men's sex life. It stills works in that direction
| User23 wrote:
| Let's not forget that old arrow of causality. Perhaps men who
| are bad at sex are more likely to view porn rather than viewing
| porn making them bad at sex. Similarly maybe women who view
| porn are already sexually successful and are looking for ideas.
|
| Male and female sexual function aren't particularly comparable
| either. If a man can't get an erection then sexual intercourse
| just isn't going to happen. There's no hard analog for women.
| That's just one example, there are many others.
|
| > and enhanced partner-reported sexual satisfaction (for some
| aspects)."
|
| I read this as something like: women who watch porn are more
| likely to perform fellatio well.
| gizajob wrote:
| In my experience, real-world fellatrices are either naturally
| good at it, or aren't. I don't think porn presents a good
| demonstration of competent technique or how to adapt one's
| style to changing circumstances.
| tmsh wrote:
| This assumes sexual performance in a relationship is worth
| optimizing for. There may be many other factors at play.
| Reduction of time spent thinking sexual thoughts. Partner's with
| a reduced sex drive or disability etc. Just worth bearing in mind
| the study (which is very useful/interesting) looks at just one
| objective.
|
| There's also the degree and how long one looks at porn. And how
| that can free up time for other things that are attractive in
| relationships (financial security etc). As a hypothetical
| consider a person who looks at porn for 5min every two days, and
| stays very focused on accumulating wealth for a few years and
| then reduces this and focuses more on sexual performance.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| > This assumes sexual performance in a relationship is worth
| optimizing for.
|
| I think this is sending the wrong signal to readers. Yes,
| ninety percent of the time it is worth optimizing for. It's
| literally what we're wired to do and your partner will
| appreciate it.
|
| That doesn't mean that that ten percent of an outlier doesn't
| exist but broadcasting doubt that it is worth optimizing for is
| not the wisdom most people need to hear.
| schroeding wrote:
| ... or just ask your partner and if it really is
| unsatisfactory, you can always buy a Hitachi or something and
| use that together. And maybe don't trust HN for relationship
| advise. :D
|
| Sorry. :P
| dundarious wrote:
| Sample collection was from solicitation by a YouTuber:
|
| > In June 2015, the French YouTuber Mathieu Sommet posted an
| online video that invited his followers to complete a
| questionnaire entitled 'Sexual profile of adults'.^2 A total of
| 171 462 participants (18+ year-olds) started the questionnaire,
| and 101 572 finished it.
|
| There's probably some value in the study, but it's probably
| inappropriate to draw hard conclusions from it (pun not
| intended).
| stickfigure wrote:
| > There's probably some value in the study
|
| As a rough approximation, it's probably fair to assign it the
| same value as youtube comments.
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