[HN Gopher] Former juvenile lifers talk about the meaning of sec...
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Former juvenile lifers talk about the meaning of second chances
Author : gmays
Score : 23 points
Date : 2022-07-23 14:52 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.brproud.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.brproud.com)
| bryanrasmussen wrote:
| This content is not available in your country/region.
|
| so archive.org:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20220724192109/https://www.brpro...
| jjulius wrote:
| What's with the voting options for this post? There are no
| up/downvote arrows, but I didn't vote for it. If I had, there'd
| be an "unvote/undown" option, but it's not there, either. Never
| seen that on HN before.
| astura wrote:
| I see the normal up arrow fwiw.
| Macha wrote:
| Downvotes are only available for comments, not posts. Posts can
| only be upvoted or flagged.
|
| for what it's worth, I have the option to upvote as usual
| GameOfFrowns wrote:
| Thanks a lot.
|
| Article carefully avoids mentioning why these individuals had
| received lifetime sentences. I assume their murder victims didn't
| get "second chances".
| cltby wrote:
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| What if they murdered murderers? Wouldn't their actions make
| you safer, if safety is your priority?
| cltby wrote:
| Yes, I would happily reconsider in this case.
| t-3 wrote:
| > Perhaps they'll make suitable service workers, but future
| physicists these are not.
|
| How do you know that?
| cltby wrote:
| They have a demonstrated capacity for cruelty and sadism.
| They have revealed no commensurate intellectual prowess.
| boeingUH60 wrote:
| Cruelty/Sadism and intellectual prowess aren't mutually
| exclusive. From my high school days...I remember some
| really smart people who were atrocious bullies, and I
| mean extreme bullies.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Famously, Goring scored 138 and another prominent Nazi,
| Arthur Seyss-Inquart, 141 on their IQ tests when
| incarcerated in Nuremberg. Both were sentenced to death
| later.
|
| That said, their case shows the principle that high-IQ
| psychopathic people tend not to end up among common
| criminals. They find other, legal or "legal" (as in "it
| was legal in Nazi Germany") ways to satisfy their urges.
| t-3 wrote:
| No, they have not. They've been convicted of crimes.
| Nothing about their intellectual ability or "capacity for
| cruelty or sadism" can be inferred from that.
| spoonjim wrote:
| Their economic output has nothing to do with why they should
| be locked up until they die. If Elon Musk commits murder he
| should be locked up for the remainder of his natural life as
| should these lowlifes.
| cltby wrote:
| Agreed. Just want to preempt any arguments about
| incarceration "wasting their potential."
| spoonjim wrote:
| The country that has places no value on life is the one that lets
| murderers out to walk free among civilization.
| w-j-w wrote:
| vkou wrote:
| The median time served for murder in the US is 13.4 years.
|
| But, not all things are equal. For some reason, both the
| lengths of these sentences, and the frequency of receiving life
| without parole (or life without parole as a child offender)
| vary widely... Across racial lines.
|
| Weird, huh?
| deepdriver wrote:
| Let's look at the data. Between 2012-2016, black male
| offenders in the federal court system received setentences
| 19.1% longer on average than similarily-situated white male
| offenders:
|
| https://www.ussc.gov/research/research-
| reports/demographic-d...
|
| However, this analysis doesn't control for income level or
| socioeconomic status. There are major differences in economic
| propsperity between black and white populations, and as a
| consequence major diffences in the quality of their legal
| counsel. This is hinted at in the 2012 Booker Report:
|
| https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/news/congressio.
| ..
|
| >During these periods, Black male offenders were more than 20
| percent less likely to receive a non-government sponsored
| below range sentence than White male offenders were. These
| differences may contribute to the difference in sentence
| length between Black and White male offenders.
|
| The quality of your counsel has a big impact on whether you
| can get "non-government sponsored below range sentence", as
| this one law firm suggests:
|
| https://alanellis.com/sentencing-tips/
|
| >The foregoing trend makes reinforces the importance of using
| a sentencing specialist able to help humanize your client,
| preferably someone familiar with the federal system's many
| nuances.
|
| Much like the gender pay gap, the closer you look at the
| racial sentencing gap the smaller it gets, and the more it
| looks related to wealth rather than race. The racial wealth
| gap is its own separate issue, but it seems to me like
| solving that problem could do much to fix the disparity in
| sentencing.
| jon_adler wrote:
| There should be a reasonable age for criminal responsibility.
| Compare the different approaches of the British [1] who tried
| 10 year olds as adults and the Norwegians [2] who took a
| different approach. Which is more civilised? Which is more
| likely rehabilitate the offender?
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger [2]
| https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/mar/20/norway-t...
| darkerside wrote:
| You couldn't have picked a worse case for trying juveniles as
| adults. I think any country that wouldn't try these animals
| as adults couldn't be called civilized. Torturing and
| mutilating a 2 year old at the age of 10 is not recoverable
| human behavior.
|
| And of course...
|
| > Venables was sent to prison in 2010 for breaching the terms
| of his licence, was released on parole again in 2013, and in
| November 2017 was again sent to prison for possessing child
| sexual abuse images on his computer.
| jon_adler wrote:
| I beg to differ. As revolting as their actions were, it is
| hard to consider 10 year olds as adults and treat them as
| such in the eyes of the law. The recidivism you raise could
| actually support my argument rather than strengthen yours.
| Had they been treated differently (I.e. more as children)
| perhaps they might have been rehabilitated and ended up
| more "normal".
|
| Don't misunderstand my position. What they did was vile
| beyond comprehension, but were 10 year olds _fully
| responsible_ for their own behaviour at this age?
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(page generated 2022-07-24 23:02 UTC)