[HN Gopher] Making a Maradona: Meat Consumption and Soccer Prowess
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       Making a Maradona: Meat Consumption and Soccer Prowess
        
       Author : wslh
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2022-07-23 18:06 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ideas.repec.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ideas.repec.org)
        
       | mberning wrote:
       | There have been a number of high profile athletes having
       | questionable performances after going low meat/vegetarian/vegan.
       | Most recently Canelo in his performance against Bivol.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Where does cocaine enter the picture? He was using it from the
       | very beginning of his playing career. Got suspended 3 times by
       | anti-doping agencies (most famously in 1994 at the World Cup)
       | At 27 years old in 1988, and at the very height of his abilities
       | and fame, the Napoli playmaker would lower himself to the
       | following "physical programme".             Sunday: Serie A
       | match.             Sunday night to Wednesday morning: continuous
       | cocaine binge.             Wednesday morning to Saturday evening:
       | "cleanse", and sweat it all out.             Sunday: Serie A
       | match.
       | 
       | https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/diego-mara...
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | Did that "programme" improve or worsen his performance, though?
         | Unless he was able to train harder perhaps.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Kusturica made a documentary about him where he said (or
           | implied) he would have been a better player if he wasn't
           | taking cocaine https://www.besoccer.com/new/do-you-know-what-
           | player-i-would...
        
             | sshine wrote:
             | I just don't understand how cocaine doesn't make you a
             | better person altogether.
        
               | medo-bear wrote:
               | today my friend you won the internet
        
         | anonu wrote:
         | That cocaine regimen implies there's some sort of multiday
         | benefit to cocaine. Whereas it would make sense than any
         | benefits from the drug would be from contemporaneous
         | consumption during a match...
        
         | strikelaserclaw wrote:
         | sounds like all that stuff would have made him a worse player.
        
           | yazantapuz wrote:
           | Indeed, Maradona career was hurt by his drug addiction.
        
             | smcl wrote:
             | I wanted to check this because my memory was that while he
             | did self-sabotage in various ways, I did remember him
             | having long enough career that was largely quite
             | successful. So his time in Europe finished in 1993 (aged
             | 33) with a relatively unsuccessful period at Sevilla (26
             | games, 5 goals) - which is as I thought. But I had NO
             | memory of him playing four more years until 1997, and at
             | Newell's and Boca no less! Incredible.
             | 
             | That said his affinity for cocaine, alcohol and partying in
             | general undoubtedly blunted and stunted his career, which
             | is mindblowing considering the success he had. What a
             | player.
        
               | squarefoot wrote:
               | I'm old enough to have seen playing live at the stadium
               | Zico, Platini and Maradona. They were all excellent
               | players, but of course Dieguito was out of this world.
               | Unfortunately his inner weakness turned him into a victim
               | of the sharks that very often approach young successful
               | sportsmen in order to bring them into their shitty
               | corrupt world luring them with parties, luxury homes,
               | fast cars and lots of girls.
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | Wow seeing him live must have been something, not least
               | beside Zico and Platini! The closest I got to him was
               | watching him manage Argentina vs Scotland in a friendly @
               | Hampden (they won 1-0), but he's a very popular figure in
               | Scotland so it was almost like a home game.
               | 
               | I suspect that if you come from a poor, vulnerable
               | ubringing and you're thrust suddenly into this world of
               | plenty and wealth where you are basically a god then
               | you're going to fly off the rails somehow. It's happened
               | quite a few times by now.
        
         | yazantapuz wrote:
         | The 1994 World Cup positive doping was ephedrine, not cocaine.
        
         | Biologist123 wrote:
         | Amazing information. Thanks for this!
        
       | marsven_422 wrote:
        
       | juunpp wrote:
       | I am no statistician, but all they did was a linear regression on
       | an extremely small population and concluded that, somehow,
       | correlation = causation.
       | 
       | > "Our outcome of interest is Soccer Prowess, which counts the
       | number of players, born in a given country, nominated to the
       | Ballon d'Or in the period 2016 to 2019"
       | 
       | An extremely small population.
       | 
       | > "The estimated coefficient on Meat Consumption is smaller when
       | we include the full set of control variables, but remains
       | positive and statistically significant."
       | 
       | Doesn't mean anything?
       | 
       | They somehow also conveniently ignored all the players who eat
       | meat and don't make it. And the cocaine.
       | 
       | I am not sure what this is about.
        
         | jhap wrote:
         | No causation reported
        
       | ravi_m wrote:
       | I am surprised they emphasize "development of the cognitive
       | functions required to excel in soccer" but not physical
       | development from meat (and hence higher protein) consumption
        
         | wumpus wrote:
         | > and hence higher protein
         | 
         | There are a ton of professional athletes who don't eat meat and
         | apparently get plenty of protein.
        
           | UIUC_06 wrote:
           | > There are a ton of professional athletes
           | 
           | How many can you name?
           | 
           | Or, since that would be anecdotal: what surveys have been
           | done of professional athletes' diets?
           | 
           | And if there are any, is the percentage of vegetarians higher
           | than a comparable group in the same age bracket?
        
           | ravi_m wrote:
           | but that doesn't change the fact that meat is a rich source
           | of protein which is beneficial for physical development
        
             | wumpus wrote:
             | Sure: some athletes get a lot of protein that way, and
             | others get a lot of protein without eating any meat. It's
             | beneficial for muscle-building either way you do it.
        
           | matwood wrote:
           | It's a lot easier today with the wealth of information and
           | foods, particular for professional athletes.
        
             | scandox wrote:
             | > dearth
             | 
             | I think you mean wealth right?
        
               | matwood wrote:
               | Yes! Thank you. Fixed.
        
       | UIUC_06 wrote:
       | If we consider baseball or football prowess instead of soccer:
       | 
       | The Dominican Republic is vastly over-represented in the
       | population of pro baseball players. I think you could easily find
       | countries in Latin America to use as a control (same income
       | level, same population, etc.)
       | 
       | The answer is most likely not diet, but the first-mover effect: a
       | lot of Dominicans became baseball players, so American teams
       | started scouting them more, pouring more into player development,
       | etc. Young kids started seeing it as a way out of poverty.
       | 
       | I think American Samoa is also over-represented in the population
       | of NFL players.
        
       | colordrops wrote:
       | This is ironic considering that Lionel Messi is essentially vegan
       | most of the year.
       | 
       | https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/06/10/veganism-no...
        
         | supercanuck wrote:
         | probably wasnt vegan during his formative years.
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | Paraphrasing: "high meat consumption + low income = better soccer
       | players".
       | 
       | This will be biased in favour of Brazil, but it seems like a
       | plausible idea that more meat can be correlated to better
       | athletic development
        
         | golemiprague wrote:
         | Brazil are good at soccer simply because they are the biggest
         | country where soccer is the main sport so it will be hard to
         | control for that trying to find other reasons. It will be more
         | interesting to look at small countries with relative success
         | like Uruguay or Holland.
        
           | smcl wrote:
           | Population is something that as a Scot mystifies me. We have
           | a population similar to Croatia, yet they've been an
           | incredible force in international football while we have
           | languished in mediocrity, missing out on most major
           | tournaments in the last 30 years.
           | 
           | At a club level there's no contest - our domestic leagues are
           | usually ranked higher in the UEFA coefficient than Croatia's
           | and traditionally we've had greater success in Europe. We are
           | at a _slight_ disadvantage re our restricted ability to field
           | emigre players (ie had Eduardo Da Silva signed for, say,
           | Dundee United rather than Dynamo Zagreb he would not have
           | been eligible for Scotland so easily) but I do not believe
           | this has impacted us significantly. Though we are losing
           | players to Ireland due to stupid self-inflicted eligibility
           | rules at schools level - James McCarthy and Aiden McGeady
           | opting to play for Ireland still saddens me to this day.
           | 
           | I've heard talk of poorer countries turning out better
           | players because at a crucial age (14-18) when you're choosing
           | to commit to professional football you're basically choosing
           | between rolling the dice at a professional career in
           | football, or a more realistic longer term career through
           | learning a trade or heading to university. And in this
           | situation, it could be that the risk/reward is higher in
           | somewhere like Croatia, Brazil or Argentina. But this doesn't
           | explain why other small high-income countries like Denmark,
           | Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland are routinely competing at a
           | higher level than we are.
           | 
           | If I was a director at the Scottish Football Association I'd
           | be closely studying what these countries are doing
           | differently because there's something we are desperately
           | missing. I have my thoughts, but I'm just another armchair
           | analyst with no power so it makes little sense to share them
           | :)
        
             | borroka wrote:
             | The relative success of one country vs another is
             | multifactorial, mysterious, and I would have a lot to say
             | about it, or better, to speculate about, but for now I will
             | simply say that Scotland is a small country, therefore with
             | a limited number of candidates for international-level
             | football, and is losing part of their talent pool to the
             | sport of rugby. Most of the backs and some flankers would
             | definitely be good candidates for top-level football.
             | 
             | Croatia has basketball, but the talent pools for basketball
             | and football do not overlap. Then, we are talking here
             | about national teams. At the club level, the performance of
             | teams from Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland is far
             | from that of teams from the most, football-wise,
             | prestigious countries.
        
               | FredPret wrote:
               | Pro rugby players and pro soccer players usually look
               | like they're barely from the same species - I'd be amazed
               | if anyone has the opportunity of choosing a first class
               | career in both sports
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | I would strongly disagree that we're losing players to
               | rugby. While rugby is (IMO[0]) the second sport in
               | Scotland far more youngsters play football than rugby,
               | and in practical terms the potential for making a career
               | out of rugby is more unlikely than football. So I don't
               | think that we're spreading ourselves more thinly than
               | Croatia are, I think there's something more to it than
               | that.
               | 
               | [0] - I actually read a while back that Cricket had more
               | registered players than Rugby in Scotland, but I take
               | this with a pinch of salt. But make no doubt about it,
               | our sporting focus is roughly similarly focussed on
               | Football to Croatia's.
        
             | 32MHz wrote:
             | Where do the best Scottish players go to play club
             | football? In the nations you listed, the best of the best
             | end up in Barca, RM, Bayern, etc... They then return with
             | best practices and an aura that influences the entire team.
             | 
             | If Scottish club football is the pinnacle for Scottish
             | players then this may be a factor?
        
               | smcl wrote:
               | The best Scottish players go south and play in the
               | Premier League in England or the Championship. But
               | England can be very sink-or-swim in my opinion, Billy
               | Gilmour was (and IMO is) a promising youngster who has
               | basically been told he's got no future at Chelsea even
               | though he's very talented. There's been a potentially
               | promising recent trend recently of a few Scottish
               | youngsters being sought out in Italy - Aaron Hickey had
               | signed for Bologna a year back and a great season, Liam
               | Henderson is a regular at Empoli and Lewis Ferguson left
               | Aberdeen for (coincidentally) Bologna this season. I say
               | it's a trend because it's so recent and so unlikely,
               | previously if a Scot played in Italy they were truly a
               | superstar. We're talking Joe Jordan, Denis Law and Graeme
               | Souness. Personally I hope Gilmour ends up in Serie A or
               | La Liga.
               | 
               | That said, you may have a point. Many Scots boys grow up
               | idolising Celtic or Rangers. It could be that many get
               | signed for their boyhood club and choose to remain there,
               | even if a club who is better for their long-term
               | development is interested.
        
         | fredsir wrote:
         | Or simply that a diet not meeting the nutritional needs can be
         | correlated to worse athletic performance. And since meat is
         | dense in nutrition, and since places with less meat available
         | sometimes is low income, I think it's plausible.
        
         | virtualritz wrote:
         | Yeah, that's probably why the gladiators were basically
         | vegetarians. ;)
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/education-29723384
        
           | hrnn wrote:
           | At least the Gladiators that lost!
        
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