[HN Gopher] Cold-brewing of coffee by picosecond-pulsed laser ex...
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       Cold-brewing of coffee by picosecond-pulsed laser extraction
        
       Author : bertolomeos
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2022-07-22 11:52 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
        
       | hericium wrote:
       | > Cold-brewed coffee is attributed to health benefits, fewer
       | acids, and bitter substances.
       | 
       | IMO statements like this have no place in scientific papers.
       | Attributed by whom? Less bitter than which method of hot brewing?
       | Fewer acids than what - coffee made with all hot brew methods
       | including AeroPress?
        
         | mjlee wrote:
         | If you make it past the abstract, all this is reasoned through
         | or referenced. I think it's quite normal for an abstract to lay
         | out the basic premise of the paper without diving in to detail
         | immediately.
        
           | rsfern wrote:
           | Also lots of journals don't even allow references in
           | abstracts
        
       | hasperdi wrote:
       | I drink cold brew coffee. Normally I leave the coffee to brew for
       | 24 hours. I'm considering of buying ultrasonic cleaner for
       | brewing my coffee. I wonder if that's going to work.
       | 
       | Watching YouTube videos on smoking / flavouring liquor using
       | these cleaners gave me the idea.
        
         | zoltar wrote:
         | James Hoffmann tried it here:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2meeYcxXoVs
        
           | andreareina wrote:
           | N.B. not cold brewed coffee
        
         | peddling-brink wrote:
         | That doesn't sound food grade. Is there a method to line the
         | cleaner basin with something food grade?
        
           | hasperdi wrote:
           | They put the drink in a mason jar
           | https://youtu.be/YlQT4ptwLKs?t=15h34m
           | 
           | And that jar goes in the cleaner
        
             | daniel_reetz wrote:
             | This also works for cleaning items in solvents and
             | flammable liquid. Put a secondary reservoir inside the
             | ultrasonic tank.
        
       | tmikaeld wrote:
       | Queue a Kickstarter to buy an expensive but extremely attractive
       | coffe-laser brewer, expected to arrive July 2023, already in pre-
       | production with "not"-rendered images.
        
       | leobg wrote:
       | So how does that work? How does the laser help extraction? Is it
       | like they're just heating small bits of grounds over at a time
       | for short durations only, as opposed to heating the whole heat
       | and all the water at once? So still heat extraction?
        
         | bertolomeos wrote:
         | A German article [1] summarizes the technique as using the
         | laser to reduce the size of coffee grains without generating
         | enough heat to break apart the aromatic compounds. Based on
         | this explanation, I would say this method is not equivalent to
         | heat extraction.
         | 
         | https://www.scinexx.de/news/technik/skurril-cold-brew-per-la...
        
         | tmitchel2 wrote:
         | Hard to heat something transparent with light radiation,
         | whereas I guess the powder can absorb it
        
           | tmitchel2 wrote:
           | So yes still heating? Ah no I see the alternate explanation
           | now
        
       | vanattab wrote:
       | I bet you would get similar results just putting your container
       | of coffee in an ultra sonic clear type deal. Probably a lot
       | cheaper then buying picosecond pulsed laser
        
         | zemvpferreira wrote:
         | Unfortunately far as I know coffee sonication produces horrible
         | results. If I remember reading correctly the sonication
         | produces a lot of cavitation on the surface of the grounds and
         | leads both to the extraction of horrible flavours as well as
         | the suspension of micro-fines in the brew that never settle.
         | The reputation is it being undrinkable.
        
       | peteforde wrote:
       | Last year I backed a project called Osma. https://drinkosma.com/
       | 
       | It uses acoustic cavitation to extract flavor and caffeine from
       | coffee without any heating in about one minute.
       | 
       | I use it every day and I like it. I love the strong flavor of
       | cold brew, and my stomach appreciates the lack of acidity. There
       | is a learning curve but if you're a HN reader, chances are the
       | amount of experimentation required to dial in your version of
       | perfection is an upside, not a downside.
       | 
       | I paid less at the time, but today the kit is selling for US$695.
       | Note that as with all things coffee, it's only as good as your
       | grinder. I ended up pairing my Osma with a Sette 270:
       | https://baratza.com/grinder/sette-270wi/
        
         | clairity wrote:
         | i'm honestly baffled by the cold brew fad, as every cold brew
         | i've tried tastes like the day old, cold coffee that it is, not
         | rich and nuanced like freshly hot brewed coffee.
         | 
         | but i'm with you on the grinder. i have the sette 30 and it's
         | fast and consistent, with little waste. i primarily do single
         | serving grinds for brewed coffee with it. the gearbox broke but
         | baratza sent me a new gearbox for free (i believe there was a
         | manufacturing defect in the early models). i got the 30 (the
         | number of grind settings) because i wanted it primarily for
         | pour over rather than espresso. the great thing is that the
         | grind adjustment mechanism can be upgraded (along with the
         | controller faceplate to get presets) and effectively turns the
         | 30 into the 270, which i may do if i ever decide to get an
         | espresso machine.
         | 
         | edit: i also got the courser burr, taking the grind size up to
         | roughly a medium grind, which is perfect for pour over. the
         | included burr is better suited to the fine grind needed for
         | espresso.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | I am not a food snob in any sense, but cold brew tastes
           | _very_ different from old coffee. It is not even close.
        
         | sfmike wrote:
         | My eyes read soma
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | I'm a little confused about the "acoustic cavitation" and what
         | a "diaphragm pump" is.
         | 
         | The majority of home and "prosumer" espresso machines use
         | vibratory pumps - how is this any different? Also, the
         | recirculation of already brewed coffee back into the pump seems
         | really strange to me. Didn't the coffee world decide
         | percolators we're gross a couple decades ago precisely because
         | of this reason?
        
           | dendrite9 wrote:
           | I wonder if the cavitation is a reference to using ultrasound
           | for extraction? Something like what is described here: https:
           | //www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2022.84981...
           | 
           | This looks like an interesting machine, I wonder if there's a
           | way to try one?
        
       | pushedx wrote:
       | I'm constantly baffled by cold brew coffee seeming like a
       | mysterious and arduously-obtained concoction.
       | 
       | Stick ground coffee in some filter bags and put it in some cold
       | water in the fridge. Come back the next day and drink it. Leave
       | it in there however long you want.
        
         | ct0 wrote:
         | Cold brew should be brewed at room temperature, then stored in
         | the fridge. It's considered cold because it's not brewed at
         | 190*f.
        
           | dangerlibrary wrote:
           | What are the consequences of brewing in the fridge vs. at
           | room temperature?
        
             | amit9gupta wrote:
             | I have a very sensitive stomach; I get an upset stomach
             | (watery stools) and pimples all over my forehead and head
             | when I have coffee. With cold brew, (if made properly), I
             | do not get any of this. So there is definitely some
             | difference in the chemical constituents of hot-coffee vs
             | cold-brew-coffee. Some other papers state less caffeic acid
             | and less quinic acid.
             | 
             | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-34392-w
        
             | goldenkey wrote:
             | Fungus and mold will likely appear if you brew anything
             | with water at room temperature.
             | 
             | Use the fridge - trust my experience. It may take a bit
             | longer to brew at colder temperatures, due to decreased
             | convection of the liquid, but it will taste much better, as
             | it prevents bacterial and fungal growth.
        
               | hericium wrote:
               | I believe fungi aren't too fond of caffeine.
        
               | DontchaKnowit wrote:
               | As someone who has terrible kitchen cleaning habits-
               | definitely not true lol.
               | 
               | Wet coffee grounds will grow mold quicker than any other
               | food product I've seen.
               | 
               | Even a pot of coffee will get mold on the top within like
               | a week.
        
               | foobiekr wrote:
               | I wonder if this is that the grounds, post use, are
               | somewhat sterilized and vulnerable to rapid colonization.
        
               | goldenkey wrote:
               | Perhaps, but I've cold brewed black tea enough times with
               | moldy results to forewarn y'all.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | Mold (a fungus) has grown in my refrigerated cold brew
               | enough times for this to be false.
               | 
               | More here - https://kitchenappliancehq.com/can-cold-brew-
               | coffee-mold/
        
               | traverseda wrote:
               | Huh... that hasn't been my experience. I notice that
               | article uses a lot of affiliate links, are you sure it's
               | not fear-mongering in order to sell it's special cold
               | brew coffee maker?
               | 
               | Not saying that mold is impossible, but I don't think the
               | solutions is to buy their amazon affiliate coffee maker
               | and special coffee butter.
               | 
               | If you have mold issues after 24 hours of cold brewing I
               | think you have some deeper issues at play. Consider
               | getting mold tests for your house, sterilizing the
               | tools/containers you use, and switching out your beans.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | I wasn't endorsing the article, merely providing it as
               | evidence of mold following my anecdote.
               | 
               | I generally face it 3-4 days in, not 24 hours.
        
               | krageon wrote:
               | This is nonsense. Fungus and mold takes a while to
               | develop, and most probably that timeframe is not over
               | night in ground coffee (or tea). It is still better to do
               | it in the fridge, because if you put it straight in it's
               | less work and tastes good if you leave it overnight.
        
               | traverseda wrote:
               | I'm not a doctor or a biologist. But I do have a water
               | cooler and have brewed both alcohol and cold brew in the
               | past. There's no super special sterilization process for
               | cold brew, we don't use sterilite on the spike that opens
               | up the bottles, we don't store the water in an especially
               | cool place, or otherwise take any special precautions.
               | 
               | That water turns out fine, often for weeks at a time.
               | 
               | Store the cold brew out of direct sunlight, don't leave
               | the grounds in for a super long time, and you'll be fine.
               | It's not like brewing alcohol, you're not adding a bunch
               | of sugar to it or anything like that. The coffee grounds
               | you're adding are shelf-stable, the water you're adding
               | it to is shelf-stable, you're not introducing any real
               | food for bacteria/fungus. Water will eventually go off if
               | you leave it in direct sunlight (mostly due to algae),
               | especially after introducing extra organic matter, but
               | the actual risks of following established methods for
               | brewing cold-brew at room temperature are very low in my
               | opinion. Especially chlorinated water like you probably
               | get out of your pipes.
        
             | nibbleshifter wrote:
             | Maybe lower extraction, but honestly, I'd have to get a
             | refractometer or some shit to test it, and I can't really
             | justify that expense.
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | In the Abstract part of the paper, they highlight some
             | distinct chemical differences to validate that their
             | process works more like cold brew vs hot brew:
             | 
             | >> "Furthermore, the liquid phase's alkaloid content,
             | analyzed by reversed-phase liquid chromatography coupled to
             | high-resolution mass spectrometry, is dominated by caffeine
             | and trigonelline and is comparable to traditional cold-
             | brewed coffee rather than hot-brewed coffee. Furthermore,
             | analyzing the head-space of the prepared coffee variants,
             | using in-tube extraction dynamic head-space followed by gas
             | chromatography coupled to mass spectrometry, gives evidence
             | that the lack of heating leads to the preservation of more
             | (semi-)volatile substances like pyridine, which provide
             | cold-brew coffee its unique taste. "
        
             | jghn wrote:
             | Takes more time to get the right amount of extraction
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | I make cold brew in an Aeropress. I fill mine with fresh grinds
         | and room temperature water at the start of making my breakfast
         | and put it over a cup of ice. It drips most of the way through
         | while I'm preparing my meal and I squeeze out the last bit of
         | water as I plate my eggs, so maybe 5-10 minute brew time. I'm
         | drinking a cup now.
         | 
         | It's obviously weaker than hot coffee, but though I drink my
         | hot coffee black, I prefer a weaker iced coffee with a bit of
         | milk or cream. The only way to get a really strong iced coffee
         | is either to brew hot and let it cool before pouring over ice
         | or to make coffee ice cubes, both of which are too much trouble
         | for me.
         | 
         | So between pouring stronger hot coffee over ice which melts a
         | lot of the ice or pouring weaker cold brew over ice and melting
         | less ice, the dilution ends up about the same, but the flavor
         | profile is different with the cold brew being more subtle and
         | less acidic. Truthfully I enjoy it both ways. Just depends on
         | my mood.
         | 
         | The Aeropress is very flexible. Experiment with it. No one brew
         | will work for all beans/roasts. I've found some beans/roasts
         | taste better brewed at 175deg and others at 190deg. Besides the
         | Aeropress, the thing that upped my coffee game the most is an
         | electric kettle.
         | 
         | Other than percolated, there's almost no brewing method I don't
         | enjoy. I use an Aeropress most of the time, but I also make
         | coffee in an ibrik, a mokapot, a Chemex, a simple silicone pour
         | over mold; it just depends on my mood.
         | 
         | The only style of coffee I gave up on at home is espresso. I
         | was just never able to pull consistent shots and got tired of
         | how much work it was to clean the machine and the space it took
         | on my counter. And before you say it: I just can't countenance
         | pod machines.
        
           | varispeed wrote:
           | Am I the only one who thinks areopress seem like a giant
           | scam? I bought this and I honestly can't see a difference
           | between simply pouring hot water over a ground coffee.
           | Aeropress seems like a bothersome extra step that does not
           | add anything, actually I think the coffee doesn't even taste
           | that good from aeropress.
        
             | kibibyte wrote:
             | I left my Aeropress unused in my drawers for years for that
             | reason, until some smart people worked out a technique that
             | turns it into a highly effective immersion brewer. Check
             | this technique out
             | https://coffeeadastra.com/2021/09/07/reaching-fuller-
             | flavor-...
             | 
             | The gist of it is: 1. Grind finer (like, nearly espresso
             | fine) 2. Steep for much much longer (like 10 minutes) 3.
             | Don't press too hard
             | 
             | (3) is generally applicable advice and may already improve
             | your current results. Pressing too hard results in
             | channeling and uneven extraction.
             | 
             | Of course, goes without saying, use good coffee and an
             | appropriate grinder.
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | I just had some of this last week. I'm not a cold brew
           | drinker, more out of habit than anything else, but it was
           | delightful! Make the exact same way you would an espresso
           | shot.
        
           | rsfern wrote:
           | I do this too, but I like to use the inverted aeropress
           | method, and I put a bit of honey in at the end before I put
           | on the filter and flip it over a cup of ice. It's my favorite
           | iced coffee method
           | 
           | (Just saw you use room temp water; I use hot and let it brew
           | for like 2min. Do you get a strong enough extraction? How
           | long do you let it go for?)
        
             | js2 wrote:
             | When brewing with room temp water it doesn't seem to matter
             | much whether I press the water through right away or let it
             | sit for 10 minutes and then press it. It is not a strong
             | extraction either way. I've expanded my comment since you
             | replied.
        
         | __alexs wrote:
         | You don't even need filters. Shove ground coffee in a plastic
         | bottle. Fill it with water. Shake it briefly. Leave it in the
         | fridge for 8 hours. Pour the coffee out slowly so the grounds
         | stay at the bottom.
        
           | 13of40 wrote:
           | Several years ago I spent a few weeks in a country that as
           | far as I could tell didn't have a "coffee culture" and all
           | that was readily available was packets of instant coffee. I
           | hunted around and found a vacuum packed brick of ground
           | coffee at a shop, but didn't have any equipment to brew it.
           | Then I worked out that you can throw some in a glass bottle,
           | pour in some hot water from the kettle, let it sit until
           | everything settled to the bottom, pour out the liquid, and
           | "voila!"
           | 
           | Later on the trip I bought a Turkish coffee maker, which
           | works on the same principle, so it's not so much an
           | innovation as it is a hotel survival tip.
        
             | nescioquid wrote:
             | Cowboy-coffee is just a pot with water and coffee grounds
             | on a fire. Apparently there is a trick involving adding
             | egg-shells to the grounds to make them settle more quickly
             | (never tried it, though).
             | 
             | Glad you prevailed! My nightmare scenario is having coffee,
             | but no way to grind it.
        
               | sgtnoodle wrote:
               | That's a very common misconception. The egg shells are
               | for their calcium carbonate, in order to cut down acidity
               | and improve the flavor. The classic trick to causing the
               | grounds to settle quickly is simply to add a little bit
               | of cold water at the end of brewing.
        
               | nanomonkey wrote:
               | The egg whites that remain on the shells also acts as a
               | flocculant for suspended solids.
        
               | 13of40 wrote:
               | The trick for that is to use two identical bowls, one as
               | a mortar and the other as a pestal.
        
               | dskinner wrote:
               | Beat the coffee grounds into an egg while bringing water
               | to a boil, then get the whole mass into the water. Can
               | boil for an extended time (say 3-5 minutes) and use old
               | stale coffee and it will improve the flavor and keep the
               | grounds suspended in the boiled egg making the pour off
               | easy.
        
           | Fargoan wrote:
           | Oh. I thought you were going to say centrifuge
        
           | anon84873628 wrote:
           | This is the best way to do a French press too. Pushing the
           | plunger all the way down just disturbs the grounds that have
           | already settled. Better to keep the screen at the top of the
           | liquid level then pour out slowly.
           | 
           | And the cupping procedure doesn't even do that, but still
           | produces reliable tasty cups.
        
         | peteforde wrote:
         | My read of the materials presented is that this process is
         | legitimately faster (three minutes vs 8-20 hours) and makes no
         | claim about easier.
         | 
         | Sure, you can just make some that will be ready tomorrow. But
         | if you want some _right now_ , it seems legitimate that being
         | able to press a button and get cold brew is novel.
         | 
         | If that doesn't sound like you, don't buy it.
        
           | anon84873628 wrote:
           | Most coffee innovations are focused on cafes as the customer.
           | If you can make on-demand cold brew you no longer need to
           | worry about anticipating demand, throwing away waste, etc.
           | You can probably even market the "fresh brewed" aspect of it.
           | 
           | Cafes will make an effort to increase extraction yields 1%
           | because that means 1% less coffee needed over the many pounds
           | used per day.
        
       | rvrst wrote:
       | This is prime Ig Nobel prize material.
        
       | seanhunter wrote:
       | ...or you can just make a French press/cafetiere using cold tap
       | water, put it in your fridge overnight and in the morning plunge
       | it and run it through a drip filter. It's not complicated, the
       | equipment is super cheap, and the coffee is delicious.
       | 
       | To the extent there's a surprising secret, the coffee will taste
       | better if you grind it fine like espresso rather than coarse like
       | you normally would for French press/drip coffee.
        
         | krageon wrote:
         | If you've already fixed it in a french press why follow that up
         | with a drip filter?
        
         | ngcc_hk wrote:
         | Are you for real ?
        
       | ajaimk wrote:
       | Just take my money!!!
        
       | prewett wrote:
       | Ha, this article sounds like some coffee-loving physics grad
       | students procrastinating on their thesis, and their professor
       | said, hmm, maybe we can publish this!
       | 
       | When the Mentos + Diet Coke thing was first a big thing, a friend
       | of mine who ran a biotech firm (so was always writing funding
       | proposals), submitted a proposal for an aerosolizer using a
       | similar process, as a mass dispersal system for the military, if
       | I recall correctly. Don't know if it ever got funded, though.
        
         | anon84873628 wrote:
         | There are several groups focused on coffee research. Lots to
         | learn about taste perception, extraction dynamics, fluid flow,
         | etc. And because the coffee market is so large, any discovery
         | can have a big practical impact.
        
         | titanomachy wrote:
         | "Mass dispersal system" is a euphemism for "chemical weapon",
         | right?
        
           | kurthr wrote:
           | Not the same, but pretty post apocalyptic:
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/BHiWygziyso?t=943
           | 
           | Devil's Toothpaste
        
       | Alex3917 wrote:
       | Similar to this, anyone here tried Osma and have thoughts?:
       | 
       | https://drinkosma.com/
       | 
       | (Extracted via acoustic cavitation.)
        
         | anon84873628 wrote:
         | Check out the Lance Hedrick review of this device on YouTube.
        
         | selimnairb wrote:
         | This has inspired me to try running room temperature water
         | through my Flair espresso maker to see what happens. It's worth
         | a shot!
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | Just tried it with some medium roast beans. I ground it a
           | little finer than normal. The water shot through very
           | quickly, like 1-2 seconds. I poured the results back into the
           | brewing vessel and pressed it through again. This time it
           | went through slower (likely because the coffee was saturated
           | by this point) and even made a little crema. It's not quite
           | cold brew, but reminiscent the of cold brew. Definitely worth
           | more experiments.
        
             | sgc wrote:
             | Try pre-infusion. Press slowly until you get one or two
             | drops through, wait 30 seconds or so for the grounds to
             | absorb water, then finish the single pass as slow as you
             | can reasonably do so.
        
       | midislack wrote:
        
       | tiborsaas wrote:
       | Is this the sort of thing that bored engineers invent? :)
        
       | aj7 wrote:
       | Utter nonsense. And everybody got paid for doing this. An
       | industrial grade picosecond laser is $150k. It has so little
       | throughput that it must be used only for very high value
       | products.
       | 
       | In fairness, did anyone notice a finding in this paper that might
       | lead to a cost-effective process by a different technology?
       | 
       | Was this the April 1 issue?
        
         | bbatha wrote:
         | The paper proposes this as an _industrial_ process to reduce
         | waste and brew time.
        
         | xbar wrote:
         | Utter nonsense is an exaggeration.
         | 
         | Is this good, important, or foundational science? I do not
         | think so, but there may actually be practical applications for
         | rapid production of high-caffeine cold brew coffee.
         | 
         | Do you find the method fraudulent or were the outcomes poorly
         | selected or measured?
        
           | ajot wrote:
           | Maybe not even coffee. Maybe this can extrapolate to other
           | liquid extraction methods from ground solids, if it can help
           | reduce heating, or time for processes that are nowadays done
           | at room temperature. Think minerals, beer, soy-sauce;
           | economies of scale could afford this type of technology.
        
         | findalex wrote:
         | This is how general research works. For better or worse.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Also, they didn't scientifically evaluate the taste of the
         | coffee using a test-panel? Disappointed.
        
       | denton-scratch wrote:
       | I've never drunk cold-brewed coffee. According to the article,
       | cold-brew has "less acidity and bitterness".
       | 
       | I happen to like coffee with fruit and citrus tones. I'm not a
       | coffee bore, but I have understood that coffee bores refer to
       | that fruitiness as "acidity". Does that mean that cold-brew would
       | be less fruity? The authors take "acidity" to mean "pH", which is
       | obviously easier to measure than "fruitiness", but I wouldn't
       | describe the taste of e.g. spirit vinegar as "fruity".
       | 
       | Supplementary question: why's it got to be a picosecond laser?
       | They say that a nanosecond laser's pulses are too long, and cause
       | heating. How hot does it have to get for that to be a problem?
       | Can't you just cool the brewing vessel?
       | 
       | Supplementary supplementary: can apparatus for doing this be
       | built at home? How much ps-laser power needs to be delivered to
       | the brew? At what wavelength? You can get handheld picosecond
       | lasers for things like mole and tattoo removal, for under $100;
       | would one of those do the trick?
        
         | ahsima1 wrote:
         | You cannot get picosecond lasers for under $100, not even under
         | $1000. Those devices that you see are dangerous diode lasers
         | that do not work for the advertised application, lie about
         | their specs and are supplied without adequate eye protection.
         | Youtuber Styropyro made a video about them here
         | https://youtu.be/DbzbIGkPW-o
        
           | syntaxing wrote:
           | Besides just diodes, there's also the Q-pulsing aspect (hence
           | the pico and fempto part of laser nomenclature)
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | Thanks for that! So those devices on Amazon are just powerful
           | diode lasers that switch on and off ten times a second -
           | they're not even millisecond pulsed lasers.
           | 
           | That powerful beam looks like (dangerous) fun; I've always
           | wanted a laser that can burn things. My inner arsonist would
           | like to be able to set things on fire from 100m. But I'm sure
           | the device must be illegal here.
           | 
           | Styropyro says you can damage your eyes just by looking at
           | the projected laser spot. I wonder whether he's exaggerating
           | his warning a bit.
           | 
           | OK, so no homemade picosecond-laser coffee for me any time
           | soon.
        
             | syntaxing wrote:
             | Not sure what you're being downvoted but Styropyro is
             | correct. There's one other aspect that people don't talk
             | about and that's Q-pulsing. When you turn on 10W diode, the
             | room gets pretty bright from the stray light. The moment
             | you turn on Q-pulsing, the room glows uncomfortably bright,
             | even with eye protection
        
             | krastanov wrote:
             | The warning is *NOT* exaggerated. It is incredibly easy to
             | damage your eyes with these tools.
        
               | sgc wrote:
               | I bought a cheap cat toy laser on amazon that was so
               | powerful our eyes hurt just from testing the thing on our
               | light gray walls etc. Some things are not worth messing
               | around with.
        
         | thejosh wrote:
         | It depends on the cold brew, they all have different tastes.
        
         | hericium wrote:
         | > I happen to like coffee with fruit and citrus tones.
         | 
         | That would likely be seeds of Coffea arabica - one of three
         | coffee plants. Those tones come from a specific plant rather
         | than a brewing method or temperature.
         | 
         | The other popular is C. canephora (robusta coffee) which is
         | almost globally (outside espresso world) considered as inferior
         | to arabica and cheaper. Robusta has some chocolate and nut
         | aromas but some people would say that it resembles burned
         | rubber stench.
         | 
         | The third plant - C. liberica - is very rare in comparison. To
         | me it has a somewhat woody/smoky/fruity aftertaste but I have
         | only tasted beans from two roasters so far.
         | 
         | Most of store-bought ground coffee are arabica/robusta blends
         | so people can enjoy full taste spectrum but aren't discouraged
         | by the burned rubber thing.
         | 
         | I, on the other hand, LOVE robusta and my morning ritual of
         | throwing mainly robusta roast (currently from Harley Estate in
         | India) with 5-25% arabica seeds of choice into coffee blender
         | is the best and most benefiting first decision making process I
         | can imagine in the early morning.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | I've noticed that espresso barristas seem to favour robusta.
           | 
           | > Those tones come from a specific plant
           | 
           | No doubt; but I'm sure that "terroir" and growing conditions
           | are also important.
           | 
           | Also, from what I can tell there are two ways of separating
           | the berry-pulp from the bean: mechanical separation and wet
           | fermentation, which create different flavour profiles.
           | 
           | The two I'm alternating at the moment are both pure arabica,
           | both from East Africa, and both high-grown; but they seem to
           | be processed differently.
        
           | anon84873628 wrote:
           | When people talk about the flavor of "third wave" specialty
           | coffee, they are talking about C. arabica.
           | 
           | The current US Barista Champion (Morgan Eckroth) did use C.
           | eugenioides in one of her beverages, but that is still priced
           | out of reach for all but the most dedicated enthusiasts.
           | 
           | Robusta is only used in "traditional" espresso blends
           | (meaning the original Italian style) or, stereotypically
           | lower quality products. (Edit: not to denigrate anyone's
           | choice of using Robusta in their morning cup - please do
           | whatever you enjoy the most.)
           | 
           | The thing about arabica is that there are many different
           | varieties, from Ethiopian heirlooms to Typica, Bourbon,
           | Pacamara, Gesha, etc. They are grown in varied soils,
           | elevations, and climates. And as a sibling comment points
           | out, the "natural process" and experimental fermentations are
           | becoming popular because of the secondary flavors imparted.
           | (Though my view of the scene is that most snobs still scorn
           | natural process coffees for lacking cleanliness).
           | 
           | The brewing method and temperature will ABSOLUTELY alter the
           | flavor tones of the cup. And the quality of grinder is the
           | most important factor by far. Tweaking grind size can take
           | you from a flat, mediocre cup to something with distinctive
           | flavors and sweetness.
        
         | itronitron wrote:
         | Earlier this year I had a cold-brewed coffee from a local
         | coffee shop that tasted more like lemonade (unsweetened) than
         | coffee. It was bad, and I'm not sure if the cold-brew was the
         | exact trigger or just the final nail but I haven't had any
         | other coffee in the months since then despite drinking coffee
         | multiple times per day for years and years.
        
           | foobiekr wrote:
           | Lots of coffee shops think that tannic, acidic coffee is good
           | coffee.
           | 
           | For those in the bay area, Red Rock in Mountain View has this
           | issue with their brewed coffee. It's often downright sour.
        
           | peteforde wrote:
           | I'm so sorry that this happened to you. It legitimately
           | sounds like you were either pranked or offered a product that
           | contained something humans are not intended to drink.
           | 
           | There's absolutely nothing about cold brew coffee that is
           | anything like unsweetened lemonade. I'm cringing just reading
           | this.
           | 
           | What it does taste like is super-strong coffee, with none of
           | the burnt note that comes with heated coffee. It could very
           | easily be considered "too strong" by supertasters... but
           | unsweetened lemonade sounds like dishwater.
        
             | anon84873628 wrote:
             | The "burnt note" doesn't typically come from the brew
             | method, but rather how darkly the beans have been roasted.
             | 
             | Light roasted (aka "Nordic" or "third wave") beans will
             | produce more acidic cups because of their different
             | chemical components. They are also less likely to taste
             | burnt or astringent.
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | It really depends what coffee beans you are starting with, and
         | the roast, just as it does with "regular", hot brewed coffee.
         | 
         | I also like lighter-roasted fruity beans, and cold-brewed tends
         | to reduce the "sourness". IMO cold brew really shines for non-
         | fruity beans though, greatly reducing the bitterness.
         | 
         | You should try it!
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | Hmmm. I've been alternating Ethiopian Harrar with Kenya AA. I
           | buy them ready-roasted - I don't know how to characterise the
           | roast other than "medium" (the beans don't glisten with oil).
           | I alternate specifically to catch the fruity aroma, which
           | seems to my jaded old palate to fade after a week of the same
           | bean.
        
             | GordonS wrote:
             | Fruity varieties are almost always a light or medium roast
             | - often you can see this in the colour of the roasted
             | beans, which will be much lighter; I'm colour blind, but I
             | think they're more brown/tan than black.
        
         | andreareina wrote:
         | Yeah it's going to tone down the fruitiness, though some may
         | remain depending on how fruit-forward your coffee is.
        
         | tapland wrote:
         | A lot of people say cold brew is fruitier. I'd give it a shot
         | if I were you
        
         | johnny_canuck wrote:
         | You might enjoy Japanese iced coffee.
         | 
         | I find that cold brew tastes the same no matter the quality of
         | coffee (therefore great for lower quality coffees) where as
         | Japanese iced coffee retains the original notes of the coffee.
        
           | baxtr wrote:
           | What's the recipe?
           | 
           | PS: ofc I could google that. But then again google results
           | these days are...
        
             | bhrgunatha wrote:
             | It's a pour over method [1]
             | 
             | You can also use a regular drip machine though. Use half
             | the normal water. Add the equivalent ice (by weight) to the
             | flask. Brew as normal, but turn it off as soon as it's
             | finished. The slow drip of hot coffee is cooled immediately
             | as it hits the ice.
             | 
             | Since the brewed coffee is cold, you can add extra ice to
             | your cup without it melting and diluting the taste too
             | much.
             | 
             | Adjust the water / ice ratio as desired.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3jxJv5UiPg
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | I wonder if extracting the coffee with half the water and
               | then diluting it gives a different result than just
               | brewing at normal strength?
        
           | petre wrote:
           | Is it any different from espresso fredo? In South Korea they
           | drink iced americano, which is espresso dilluted with water
           | and then dilluted with ice. In Greece I always drink espresso
           | fredo as most shops will make a good cup and frappe is just
           | not my cup of coffee.
        
       | yawgmoth wrote:
       | I had trouble understanding the method - were there 2 lasers?
       | "Nd-YAG-laser centered at 532 nm" and "A ps-laser (Edgewave) with
       | a pulse duration of 10 ps, a repetition rate of 80 kHz, and pulse
       | energy of 125 uJ"? Perhaps they are one and the same?
       | 
       | Where can I find cheap lasers to try something like this?
        
         | rsfern wrote:
         | I think the second sentence is just describing the manufacturer
         | and the pulse configuration of the one Nd-YAG laser. Sometimes
         | a second laser is used to pump the output laser in pulse laser
         | systems, but that's an implementation detail and I'm not sure
         | about the specific system used here.
         | 
         | You might be able to find a laser system to hack around with
         | (they are used for tattoo removal). Probably not cheap.
         | 
         | Make sure to take laser safety super seriously if you work with
         | lasers
         | https://ors.od.nih.gov/sr/dohs/safety/laboratory/Pages/laser...
        
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