[HN Gopher] Analytic versus Continental Philosophy (2009)
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       Analytic versus Continental Philosophy (2009)
        
       Author : bluetomcat
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2022-07-21 07:48 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (philosophynow.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (philosophynow.org)
        
       | bluetomcat wrote:
       | I think it can be better summarised as "Anglo-French rationalism
       | versus post-Kantian German idealism". The first view asserts that
       | we can accumulate knowledge by reason alone, whereas the second
       | view asserts that our mind constructs representations of the
       | real-world objects by ideas alone. It's an intellectual lineage
       | that has given birth to most political ideologies and grand
       | narratives.
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | I'm rather a dilettante on this, so perhaps a question will
         | help me clarify it.
         | 
         | I'm a bit surprised that you call it "Anglo-French"
         | rationalism. I'd always associated the French with the
         | continental tradition; the main names I know associated with
         | continental philosophy are French. I'd thought it was called
         | "continental" in explicit contrast with the British (and
         | Anglophones in general).
         | 
         | Is there a large French "analytic" tradition that's getting
         | swept under the carpet here?
         | 
         | I gather that the entire argument about the distinction is
         | rather moot here. But I think I may also be missing your point
         | entirely, and I'm curious if you could elaborate.
        
           | bluetomcat wrote:
           | > Is there a large French "analytic" tradition that's getting
           | swept under the carpet here?
           | 
           | Rene Descartes is considered to be the father of rationalism,
           | meaning that knowledge can be obtained through reason and
           | logic alone. The British tradition is more deeply rooted in
           | empiricism with regards to observing natural phenomena, but
           | it is not at odds with rationalism.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Ah, thank you. That's the context I needed.
        
         | thyrsus wrote:
         | I am reminded of the recent experiment confirming quantum
         | mechanics: reality does not exist until it is measured, but
         | once measured it is a _shared_ reality among the observers[0].
         | And what is measurement? The assigning of names such that the
         | name can be shared among observers - and once the names are
         | assigned, you can manipulate the names in a more (mathematic)
         | or less (poetic) rigorous fashion (there are, of course,
         | gradations in rigor). So: Anglo-French rationalism is true, at
         | least for pure mathematics which explicitly disclaims
         | application to any specific real-world object - but once we
         | start discussing experience, perception (an accumulation of
         | measurements, again, more or less rigorous) must occur so that
         | reason can be applied. Until each of us has multiple universe-
         | size supercomputers available, mathematical rigor cannot be
         | applied to to the most important aspects of life, such as love
         | (and even then, only if it escapes a Goedel-like
         | undecidability).
         | 
         | [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/reality-doesn-t-
         | exis...
        
           | gus_massa wrote:
           | > _reality does not exist until it is measured_
           | 
           | It's a weird way to explain the result of the experiment. The
           | experiment is some variant of the ERP paradox and the result
           | is that the polarization of a pair of entangled photons is
           | not defined until it's measured, that is well known since
           | many years. They use two properties of the photons (for some
           | strange game for technical reasons?), but the result is not
           | more surprising that the usual Bell inequality experiment.
           | 
           | It just means that polarization of a pair of entangled
           | photons is not defined until it's measured, not that reality
           | exists or not.
        
         | __sisyphus__ wrote:
         | This is how I've always understood it as well. It's probably
         | not quite this simple, but for a couple of sentences, I can't
         | imagine having a much clearer picture.
         | 
         | Part of me wants to replace "post-Kantian" with some sort of
         | Hegelian descriptor, but I suppose the difference in meaning
         | would be somewhat negligible. I've just always felt like every
         | continental philosophy since Hegel has essentially been a
         | response to him less than Kant, but Kant certainly provided the
         | foundation for what was to come.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | They should have started with this Cicero quote instead:
       | 
       | "There is nothing so absurd that it has not been said by some
       | philosopher."
        
       | gexaha wrote:
       | The summary is a bit outdated (as can be seen by the year). I
       | don't know any articles about recent intersections between
       | analytic and continental philosophies (and the split between them
       | seems irrelevant nowadays), but you could check various
       | philosophers, like Robert Brandom, Quentin Meillassoux, Reza
       | Negarestani or Ray Brassier.
        
         | thebooktocome wrote:
         | It is interesting that the split does seem irrelevant these
         | days.
         | 
         | Reflecting back, it seems to me like a lot of the wind spilled
         | from continental sails after Derrida died with no clear
         | intellectual inheritor.
         | 
         | Anyway, this is an interesting insight, thanks.
        
           | thomasjudge wrote:
           | Recovering former philosopher (well, grad student) here, can
           | one of you say more about why "the split does seem irrelevant
           | these days"?
        
             | Schiphol wrote:
             | While there is much more cross-talk these days, and relying
             | on the A-C distinction is (at least in the analytic camp)
             | frowned upon, rumors of its demise have been greatly
             | exaggerated.
        
       | zvmaz wrote:
       | > Analytic philosophy should be able to enter into phenomenology,
       | existentialism, literature, and politics with the same enthusiasm
       | as continental philosophy
       | 
       | It _is_ able and very good at that, and way better then what
       | continental philosophers have produced.
       | 
       | A few examples: Colin McGinn for Literature: Ethics, Evil, and
       | Fiction, David Benatar for "Existentialism": The Human
       | Predicament, Peter Singer for Politics: The Darwinian Left.
        
         | Schiphol wrote:
         | Analytic philosophers (I am one of them) have produced
         | excellent work that engages deeply with the phenomenological
         | tradition. Dan Zahavi or Tony Chemero come to mind. But
         | "continental" philosophers (Merleau-Ponty, Sartre, Heidegger)
         | have produced extremely deep, much more influential work.
         | That's because they _are_ the phenomenological tradition.
        
       | hyperpape wrote:
       | This article is not entirely bad, but I think it still overstates
       | the distinction.
       | 
       | It is true that there's something of a divergence, where analytic
       | philosophers are much more likely to read Russell, Wittgenstein,
       | Quine and Lewis, while continental philosophers are more likely
       | to read Heidegger or Derrida. There are accompanying differences
       | in style and "feel". But it is extremely hard to generate robust
       | generalizations about differences. For any high level
       | philosophical position, you can find authors on both sides
       | arguing for or against it.
       | 
       | Additionally, while early in the 20th century, you could try to
       | argue that analytic philosophy had a core of logical analysis (in
       | the sense of Russell/early Wittgenstein, Logical Positivism,
       | Carnap) and ordinary language, starting in the 1960s, the field
       | increasingly fragments, and becomes more varied in the topics it
       | studies, the approaches it takes, and so on. By the present day,
       | we have "analytic philosophers" like Kieran Setiya writing a book
       | on Mid-Life Crises, or Laurie Paul writing about whether one can
       | anticipate the experience of parenthood
       | (https://lapaul.org/papers/whatCantExpect.pdf).
       | 
       | All in all, it's true that there are two relatively independent
       | traditions, it's hard to say much more about them than "people
       | tend to read different books, and that has some influence on how
       | they approach matters."
        
       | [deleted]
        
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