[HN Gopher] Entire telecomm infrastructure of Iceland sold to pr...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Entire telecomm infrastructure of Iceland sold to private equity?
        
       Author : openfuture
       Score  : 148 points
       Date   : 2022-07-18 21:00 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ardian.com)
        
       | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
       | How are the PE going to make their money back?
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Like a python digests its prey: by squeezing its customer base
         | and labor.
        
           | nwiswell wrote:
           | I didn't know pythons were predatory capitalists. I thought
           | they ate small mammals.
        
             | AaronFriel wrote:
             | I don't follow - on the scale of rodents to whales, I'd say
             | we're still on the smaller side.
        
             | formerkrogemp wrote:
             | We're all in the rat races avoiding the pythons. That's too
             | rich for me.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | Private equity firms have a long track record of killing
             | and leaving behind what they meant to eat.
        
               | nwiswell wrote:
               | Carl Icahn is actually three pythons in a trenchcoat
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Yeah, I can't see any way this will go wrong...
        
       | geenat wrote:
       | Privatising your internet utility never goes well, as we know
       | from USA, Canada.
       | 
       | Telecoms are extremely profitable, the "lower taxes" reasoning is
       | complete BS - this smells bad.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | postingawayonhn wrote:
         | Here in New Zealand all of the telecom companies are private
         | and the fibre/copper networks are owned by companies that are
         | separate from the retailers. Something like 90% of the
         | population has access to at least 1Gbps speeds.
        
         | formerkrogemp wrote:
         | > Privatising your internet utility never goes well, as we know
         | from USA, Canada
         | 
         | Works out well for Rogers and Telus shareholders ;).
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | These were always private companies from day 1 though.
           | 
           | edit: see upthread, I am wrong about Telus.
        
         | ceeplusplus wrote:
         | It only fails in the US because of corruption and NIMBYism.
         | These telecoms buy off the local city council and prevent new
         | development of any lines. Then local residents complain about
         | the hassle of digging trenches, having utility trucks on the
         | block, etc.
         | 
         | When you ban this sort of bullshit permitting process it goes
         | extremely well. Sometimes local authority has to be sacrificed
         | for the long term benefit that residents don't see.
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm not convinced. New York has been ardent about
           | trying to get internet providers to do their damn job and it
           | just simply doesn't seem to work. The companies make out like
           | bandits and routinely flout deadlines and requirements.
           | 
           | - Charter: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/03/ny-
           | says-charter-...
           | 
           | - Frontier: https://arstechnica.com/tech-
           | policy/2021/05/frontier-knowing...
           | 
           | - Verizon: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/03/nyc-
           | sues-verizon...
           | 
           | It just keeps going. I could provide dozens of links here. I
           | just don't think you can make enough laws to get these
           | companies to do the dirty work of wiring up unprofitable
           | connections, and to stop lying about internet speeds.
        
             | ceeplusplus wrote:
             | Oh I don't mean big buildout contracts - those are bound to
             | be failures. It's like the government paying Lockheed to
             | develop the F-35.
             | 
             | I mean if you relax zoning regulations and permitting
             | processes significantly, then private enterprise will get
             | external funding and build it out. You can already get 5G
             | home internet in a lot of areas from Verizon or TMo for way
             | cheaper than the wired companies and it's just as fast in
             | both bandwidth and latency. If we had a mmWave node on
             | every block then the buildout problem gets solved pretty
             | quickly.
             | 
             | > dirty work of wiring up unprofitable connections
             | 
             | It doesn't need to be wired to the home. See: Webpass. The
             | problem is that NIMBYs will block ugly antennas sticking
             | out from every building so you get mired in environmental
             | reviews, neighborhood comments, etc. and nothing gets
             | built.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | Eh? Telecom networks were always privately owned in Canada and
         | the US. They were never privatized.
        
           | ulrashida wrote:
           | Incorrect. Saskatchewan (SaskTel), Manitoba (Bell MTS, now
           | sold), and Alberta (AGT, sold) maintained crown corporations
           | for telecom.
        
           | goosedragons wrote:
           | No. Telus was formed from the privatization of Alberta
           | Government Telephones. MTS was previously a crown corp for
           | telecom in Manitoba but was later privatized and then bought
           | by Bell. Saskatchewan still has their telecom crown corp
           | SaskTel, although there has been rumblings of privatizing it.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | Fair enough, I see I am off about Telus, and I presume
             | Sasktel.
             | 
             | Still, I seldom get the complaints. Our industry is
             | private, but heavily regulated.
             | 
             | Yes, there are bumps over the years, and the CRTC at times
             | is not optimal, but the whole "must lease last mile" thing
             | is part of that regulation.
             | 
             | A mix of public control, and private industry can work
             | well. To speak to that, Bell, Rogers constantly squrim and
             | writhe, under their forced requirement to lease to
             | competitors.
             | 
             | They hate it, which to me means it can't be all bad.
        
               | ulrashida wrote:
               | They're very good at managing that image, it's true. It's
               | hard to believe that we're in an equitable spot as
               | consumers with reports showing the big three are among
               | the most profitable telcos in the world.
               | 
               | That's not even starting in on the obvious price
               | coordination that highlights the dearth of competition in
               | the sector.
        
             | ulrashida wrote:
             | Thankfully that matter was resolved back in 2018 when Bill
             | 40 was repealed. Saskatchewan has plenty of evidence from
             | other provinces what happens when natural monopolies are
             | privatized.
        
         | Inhibit wrote:
         | What! I refuse to believe every American premises isn't wired
         | for fibre. Since we've paid for it so many times. And required
         | it in many lucrative exclusivity contracts.
         | 
         | Some of the spending, for instance:
         | https://www.jsonline.com/in-depth/news/2021/07/14/weve-spent...
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | > We have given away $40 billion in the last 10 years ... and
           | haven't solved the problem... I always thought the definition
           | of insanity was doing things the same way over and over and
           | believing that, somehow, something will change
           | 
           | Damn, I miss Wheeler. I hope Rosenworcel makes some
           | meaningful progress on this front.
           | 
           | I'm hoping the new GIS data (obviating the inaccurate Form
           | 477 reporting) will help drive a lot of this conversation
           | this year: https://www.appgeo.com/gis-data-is-the-key-to-
           | unlocking-new-...
        
           | andrewstuart wrote:
           | In the 1800's the US government paid for the building of its
           | transcontinental railroad by offering cash plus land for
           | _every mile of completed laid railway track_ , with
           | competition for completed miles coming from the other side of
           | the country. That worked incredibly well. If you can find a
           | good documentary on it, it is a fascinating story. There was
           | an unbelievably intensive effort to get that project complete
           | in the quickest possible time, including blasting tunnels
           | through the Rocky Mountains - nothing stopped those companies
           | from delivering the completed tracks.
           | 
           | You'd have fibre to the home if the government paid _by the
           | home tested to have symmetric gigabit_ , with competition
           | between telco's to complete the available homes.
           | 
           | Instead, governments pay for things other than the outcome.
           | 
           | No surprise they don't get the outcome.
           | 
           | Pay close attention to the attempts to build semiconductor
           | manufacturing in the USA. This will fail for the same reason
           | - the government is paying big money, but for the wrong
           | things. It should be paying the big money when the first
           | production quality wafers are delivered in real products.
           | There's a big fail coming up there because they don't heed
           | the lesson of the railway.
        
             | pkaye wrote:
             | > Pay close attention to the attempts to build
             | semiconductor manufacturing in the USA. This will fail for
             | the same reason - the government is paying big money, but
             | for the wrong things. It should be paying the big money
             | when the first production quality wafers are delivered in
             | real products. There's a big fail coming up there because
             | they don't heed the lesson of the railway.
             | 
             | Is that how it is structured in the EU?
        
             | not2b wrote:
             | And even today the largest private landowner in California
             | is Catellus Development Corporation, which was one of the
             | companies spun off from the railroads. They were given way
             | more land than necessary to build the tracks.
        
         | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
         | >Privatising your internet utility never goes well, as we know
         | from USA, Canada.
         | 
         | Never? Really? You're very wrong, privatized internet can work
         | very well, I'm paying $10/mo for 1Gbps up/down here in Eastern
         | Europe.
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | > Telecoms isn't the winner-take-all game it used to be. Now it
       | is much more about experimenting and collaborating; having Mila
       | as the owner of the 5G network is going to help that process.
       | 
       | When I hear "private equity", I think "strip it to the bone to
       | profit off an existing captive customer base without making
       | additional investment", I don't think "experimenting and
       | collaborating".
       | 
       | I guess Iceland will find out!
        
       | gonesilent wrote:
       | NSA just buying up whole telecoms.....
        
       | Kukumber wrote:
       | History repeats itself, that's unfortunate, but that's what they
       | chose to do
        
       | kristjank wrote:
        
       | beambot wrote:
       | I'd be less worried about this and more worried about regulatory
       | capture of spectrum (e.g. for mesh WiFi and satellite internet
       | providers).
        
       | dijit wrote:
       | I would be interested to hear the reasoning.
       | 
       | I can't think of a time that this has been good for the
       | population, even if you include "lower taxes" (because, honestly,
       | that doesn't seem to happen).
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | I'm sure the reasoning starts and ends with the icelandic
         | krona. Always follow the money.
        
         | whimsicalism wrote:
         | I think it can be difficult to prove cases where it has been
         | "good" because the counterfactual case is not there to compare
         | with.
         | 
         | You can find situations where the government has implemented
         | something fairly poorly, but that isn't often evidence to say
         | "the private sector could have done this so much better!"
         | 
         | But on the other hand, you might find situations where there
         | has been an enormous amount of advance/innovation driven by the
         | private sector, but that isn't evidence to say "the same thing
         | would have occurred with government ownership!"
        
         | karmicthreat wrote:
         | Not only will it not lower taxes, people will pay even more for
         | the service with higher increases each year.
         | 
         | And in 10-20 years with no investment they will wonder why the
         | telecom system is breaking.
        
       | oyas wrote:
       | It seems like the deal is off since Ardian is unwilling to close
       | due to demands by the The Competition Authority of Iceland.
       | 
       | https://www.visir.is/g/20222288293d/hluta-brefa-verd-simans-...
        
         | westpfelia wrote:
         | As someone who is interested in moving to Iceland in the next
         | year or so, WOOOOOOOOO
        
           | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
           | How's your Icelandic?
        
         | openfuture wrote:
         | Nice, good news. The competition authority was revamped post
         | financial crysis and has some good people at the helm.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | teruakohatu wrote:
       | It probably should not have been done (why ever sell an asset
       | like that) but it didn't go terribly in New Zealand.
       | 
       | The sale stipulated that the government would regulate the
       | wholesale price of copper and that the copper lines, and later
       | the exchanges, could be accessed by competing telcos.
       | 
       | Years later the government, no longer owner of any copper lines,
       | set up a fibre network. The fibre network is owned 50% by central
       | government and 50% by private or local government owned
       | corporations and its pricing is highly regulated.
       | 
       | 87% of the population can now get a 4000/4000mbs connection for
       | 117 USD/month.
        
         | dhsysusbsjsi wrote:
         | NZ is a great success story. Compared to Australia who
         | privatised Telecom copper (now called Telstra), who let the
         | copper rot and were also forced to allow access which caused
         | 3rd party retailers and consumers large problems with poor
         | access. Then the government announced a full fibre to the home
         | network which started being built. Just before the large
         | upwards curve in rollout, the government changed, and bought
         | the rotting copper infrastructure back off Telstra (plus some
         | cable) at astronomical prices. So now we have slow, expensive
         | internet and the taxpayer has spent more than it would have
         | cost to rollout the fibre, and it's years later.
        
         | postingawayonhn wrote:
         | > The fibre network is owned 50% by central government and 50%
         | by private or local government owned corporations
         | 
         | Does the government actually have an ownership stake? I just
         | thought they provided some grants and debt financing?
        
           | teruakohatu wrote:
           | There are many fibre companies, each with a monopoly in a
           | geographic area. For the largest Chorus the government own
           | non-voting shares and gave them a loan, and for the others I
           | believe the government had a 50% stake originally. That all
           | might have changes over the years.
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | I think it's okay to lease out or let private entities operate
       | that kind of infrastructure under supervision but to sell off
       | your national communications infrastructure, in particular to a
       | foreign entity is absolute insanity for national security reasons
       | alone, costs aside.
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | A better approach would have been to split the network and sell
       | off portions of it to private equities to prevent monopolization.
        
         | dv_dt wrote:
         | For infrastructure, especially in smaller markets, it seems
         | like a public monopoly would be the most cost efficient - even
         | if you contracted out periodic private operational and upgrade
         | contracts.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | It's a country with the population of Sunnyale. I'm not sure it
         | could support much competition.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | whiskeytuesday wrote:
         | Didn't almost all of Ma Bell end up inside the deathstar
         | eventually anyway? [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/24/13389592/att-time-
         | warner...
        
       | jaimex2 wrote:
       | We did this in Australia years ago. The result was well... were
       | 61 billion in so far creating a new national broadband network
       | because the privatised company has a monopoly and had no
       | incentive to upgrade anything.
        
         | Gustomaximus wrote:
         | My understanding is there were 3 big failings in this for
         | Australia.
         | 
         | 1) Selling Telstra. The whole issue never would have happened
         | if the govt still owned. Thanks Mr Howard
         | 
         | 2) Forcing local Labor requirement in the tender. This was
         | Labor union movement trying to spread money with the roll-out
         | but made Testra drop out as until this they were always
         | guaranteed to win. Thanks Mr Rudd
         | 
         | 3) The 'we dont need fibre well use mixed technology'. That's
         | were it truly became a waste of money and potential. Thanks
         | Abbott & Turnbull.
         | 
         | Such a failure for Australia. And as someone now using
         | Starlink, so glad Musk came along and saved us bad internet
         | people.
        
       | joisig wrote:
       | The purchase has not yet gone through, Ardian are saying they
       | cannot continue without changes to the agreement, I believe this
       | is due to some requirements by the anti-monopoly authorities [0].
       | 
       | Mila is the company being sold, it was spun out of the national
       | monopoly a long time ago to provide base layer services to all
       | operators equally but was initially (and still mostly, I'm hazy
       | on the details) owned by the old monopoly. The old monopoly has
       | also been privatized a long time ago but has significant
       | competition.
       | 
       | I agree selling the infrastructure part to PE is almost 100%
       | guaranteed to give bad results for the nation. It's like people
       | never stopped to look at what the typical PE playbook is. But I
       | guess it's harder to stop when everything is privatized already
       | and in the hands of very many shareholders, each of them acting
       | in their own short-term best interest.
       | 
       | Source: I'm Icelandic.
       | 
       | [0] (in Icelandic)
       | https://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/2022/07/17/ardian_saett...
        
       | solarkraft wrote:
       | Has privatizing public infrastructure EVER gone well?
       | 
       | Is there any indication this will be different from all the many,
       | many, many failed privatizations?
       | 
       | What were they thinking (really, what was the discourse over
       | there? Doesn't Iceland usually tend to do reasonable things?)?
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | I'd really want to know the same.
         | 
         | Also, in similar vein, is there any examples of making
         | something that was private before into public infrastructure,
         | with good success?
        
           | brianwawok wrote:
           | Toll roads in the US for both cases.
           | 
           | There were some crazy routes to get from A to B. Toll roads
           | cut an hour or more off some popular routes.
           | 
           | And in reverse, some states have bought out some toll roads,
           | after they were deemed not profitable.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | I think the problem with the reverse (private -> public) is
           | that it usually happens after the company has been mismanaged
           | for so long it's ready to go bankrupt.
        
           | pram wrote:
           | Most commuter rail in the US fits that bill, doesn't it?
           | Amtrak, Septa etc
        
         | openfuture wrote:
         | The CEO that is being interviewed there was in the panama
         | papers. He bought the house he lives in from the wife of one of
         | the people who was jailed after the financial crysis.
         | 
         | The people who were jailed didn't really receive much time at
         | all and the whole thing has been misunderstood abroad.
         | 
         | Honestly the country is no longer independent, the biggest joke
         | is that our ruling political party, the independence party, is
         | anything but...
         | 
         | But these things are just the slow march to making it clear who
         | rules us. Can't wait to see the identity company (also private)
         | being sold in a similar way.
         | 
         | I am doing an uprising (except the icelandic word 'uppreisn'
         | also has the added meaning of 'dignity') - what does that
         | entail? Well I believe that coercion is not a good foundation
         | for anything supposedly legitimate. I want a more persuasive
         | foundation and I guess that starts with making guix a useful OS
         | for non-technical users via my "datalisp" project... I guess I
         | should stop dragging my feet and make the website (datalisp.is)
         | since I am opening this discussion.
         | 
         | Whatever. The key idea is; we need to be able to trust our
         | operating system, for that to happen we need a way to receive
         | automatic updates without having a central source of truth,
         | this is the oracle problem in disguise. The solution is to keep
         | track of probabilistic estimates of trust and basically do
         | science (we haven't got a better way to do physics so I don't
         | see how we are expecting anything better from "AI") to assess
         | legitimacy...
         | 
         | You can see my thing at sr.ht/~ilmu and if you are Icelandic;
         | uppreisn.is (note that this thing is lost in google
         | translation).
         | 
         | I've decided I would rather die than earn money doing things I
         | don't believe in and that almost happened recently so
         | everything is a bit scattered. However I have a meetup starting
         | next month and then there will be steady progress on datalisp.
         | 
         | Edit for some clarifications, the sale discussed is blocked
         | right now by the 'competition control' agency but I don't think
         | they have enough grounds and the agencies that do are clearly
         | corrupt.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | > Has privatizing public infrastructure EVER gone well?
         | 
         | There has been a huge amount of privatisation of infrastructure
         | in New Zealand over the years, and it is hard to find good
         | examples of consumer harm (unlike the harmful examples for
         | private electricity networks in California or Texas).
         | 
         | The only real problem appears to be that the public keep buying
         | things back or propping up private enterprise (giving billions
         | to Toll for an uneconomic rail network, or bailing out our
         | national air carrier Air NZ).
         | 
         | One counter-example could be our airports which are part
         | private enterprise, and man they gouge consumers with their
         | monopolies. Although I think Wellington and Christchurch
         | airports are private-public partnerships with local government.
         | 
         | New Zealand is similar to Oregon in area and population, to
         | give you an idea of how big our problems could get.
        
         | quitit wrote:
         | The problem with this approach is that these are entities which
         | were entirely paid for by the population. Tax dollars built the
         | company, and further taxes plus operating fees were paid by the
         | population to keep it running. Unless the business was able to
         | sell services to foreign states (like how electricity is often
         | exported), then the entity exists solely on the backs of the
         | population.
         | 
         | A sell off is rarely going to result in more than what the
         | population has already paid towards the business. It turns into
         | a short-sighted budget booster while depriving the population
         | of the unique advantages of state-held entities, such as not
         | needing to turn a profit, having to answer to elected
         | representatives, the power to change the management, or hold
         | priorities that solely benefit the population (such as
         | performing costly upgrades for economic or national security
         | purpose).
         | 
         | When looking at utilities there are few avenues that the new
         | owner can take to improve profit other than cost-cutting
         | exercises and increasing fees. Neither of these weren't
         | possible beforehand, but an entity that needs to make profit to
         | justify the purchase price will find ways of generating that
         | profit.
         | 
         | This is usually where the problems start - it's the assumption
         | that a private profit driven entity possesses unique market
         | knowledge, efficiencies and access to larger scales of
         | economies that weren't available to prior company management.
         | In most situations these benefits are overstated and don't
         | render any real benefit to the population, instead the business
         | usually increases costs at an outpaced rate (hello inflation)
         | due to having a state granted monopoly and this levies the
         | entire population with a higher cost of doing business for the
         | long term.
        
         | 6510 wrote:
         | no
        
           | gsk22 wrote:
           | Which question in the parent are you even responding to?
        
         | danielmarkbruce wrote:
         | What are the many failed privatizations?
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | My parents talk about how getting a new telephone in the UK
         | went from a month-long process to next day once it was
         | privatized and there was profit to be made.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | viccuad wrote:
       | Infrastructure is a natural monopoly [1]. The cost to enter the
       | market is unfavourable, and the incumbent has all the margins.
       | 
       | Privatizing it is always a bad move for the citizens, and a good
       | move for the private company.
       | 
       | At worst, countries should keep one publicly owned company that
       | owns the infrastructure and rents it to others, and also keeps
       | the playing field leveled with low prices for the customers (this
       | is the case in some countries but not all..).
       | 
       | [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly
        
         | snidane wrote:
         | The outcome for citizens is the same as in soviet style
         | communism, except in communism the state enterprises were
         | supposed to serve the commons. In this case they don't even
         | have to pretend to.
        
         | AmericanChopper wrote:
         | A majority of the telecom infrastructure in New Zealand is
         | privately owned, and the service there is generally very good
         | and not especially expensive.
         | 
         | This level of service was established by government giving
         | interest free loans to private companies to build the fiber
         | infrastructure (with one company getting about 70% of it). So
         | you might want to revise your use of the word "always".
        
           | viccuad wrote:
           | I can recommend this timeline of the history in New Zealand:
           | http://www.wordworx.co.nz/KiwitelcoTimeline.htm
           | http://www.wordworx.co.nz/Kiwitelcotimeline2.htm
           | http://www.wordworx.co.nz/Kiwitelcotimeline3.htm
           | 
           | In short; since privatization in the 90s, the spending in R&D
           | went to 1% (median in other countries is 7%). Rising costs,
           | and lagging on implementing DSL in 00s. OECD list it among
           | the most expensive countries to own a landline, and
           | cellphone. Then, lagging in DSL+, and then, lagging in Fibre.
           | Bottom of the OECD list.
           | 
           | This is for a country that in the 50s, 60s, and 70s had an
           | amazing copper infrastructure, and a computer and technology
           | univerisity sector even.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | limpbizkitfan wrote:
           | So you would prefer a monopoly that serves a small family and
           | investors vs. a monopoly that has revenue go back into the
           | government?
        
             | AmericanChopper wrote:
             | I only care about price and quality of service. I don't
             | have any ideological axe to grind about where the profits
             | go. When I was in NZ, their privately owned telco
             | infrastructure services my needs very much to my
             | satisfaction.
        
           | ccooffee wrote:
           | Interesting. I was unaware of the state of telcos in NZ. I
           | found this wikipedia article to have some additional content:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_in_New_Zeal.
           | ..
           | 
           | Using only that article as a resource (lazy, sorry), it seems
           | that the telco infrastructure improved because of
           | competition. It doesn't really seem to be a private/public
           | issue, but that multiple companies got into the action.
           | 
           | All of Iceland's infrastructure was sold off in one huge
           | chunk, forming a private monopoly. This may become a decent
           | test case for whether government-operation or private-
           | operation makes a difference. (In contrast to the wiki
           | article, which suggests that competition is the thing that
           | matters.) Like the grandparent comment, I expect very little
           | from the private operation of Iceland's telco infrastructure,
           | but I'd love to be surprised.
        
             | onionisafruit wrote:
             | If you want a preview you can look at what has happened in
             | Iceland since 2005 when the privatization happened. It will
             | probably continue to be the same with different private
             | owners of the monopoly.
        
           | creakingstairs wrote:
           | > A majority of the telecom infrastructure in New Zealand is
           | privately owned, and the service there is generally very good
           | and not especially expensive.
           | 
           | It used to be quite expensive. This only changed thanks to
           | the ruling[1] that the conduct of charging monopoly price was
           | anti competitive.
           | 
           | [1] https://comcom.govt.nz/case-register/case-register-
           | entries/t...
        
           | marricks wrote:
           | Well they actually have competition and regulation, with a
           | diverse set of telecom options and expanding public broadband
           | to boot.[1]
           | 
           | I think all of Iceland's internet getting bought by one
           | company is not a reasonable comparison.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_New_Zealand#Pri
           | cin...
        
             | AmericanChopper wrote:
             | A majority of the infrastructure is owned by one company,
             | with some smaller companies servicing regional areas. There
             | is no local competition in regards to infrastructure. No
             | matter where you live, there will only be one fiber
             | provider available for your address.
        
         | danielmarkbruce wrote:
         | This is overly simplistic. And pieces are just flat wrong.
         | 
         | How are you defining infrastructure? Why is there an assumption
         | it's good for the company buying it? There is virtually always
         | a bidding competition, these assets don't go for cheap.
        
           | Retric wrote:
           | There are few bidders, and no bid is going to be high enough
           | to make the acquisition unappealing let alone unprofitable.
           | 
           | So it's generally just a question of how screwed the public
           | gets.
        
             | danielmarkbruce wrote:
             | What makes you say there are few bidders?
        
             | onionisafruit wrote:
             | The winning bid will be high enough to make the acquisition
             | unappealing to all but on bidder.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Not quite, there are two basic strategies either make a
               | high but profitable bid to try and win or make a very low
               | bid on the off chance nobody does the first strategy.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mikkergp wrote:
         | Why are politicians so eager to do this? Is it because
         | politicians get bribes, or because they represent the investors
         | some how?
        
           | Invictus0 wrote:
           | They get short term funds for their agenda.
        
           | danielmarkbruce wrote:
           | Because they get a truckload of money to spend.
           | 
           | There is also the reasonable argument that government run
           | entities are wasteful.
           | 
           | So, it's not a simple thing.
        
             | Gustomaximus wrote:
             | I've thought a good policy would be govt asset sale profit
             | gets held in trust for ~12 years.
             | 
             | This way it cant be a balance the budget act, and the cash
             | might benifit your opponent 3 election cycles down the
             | track.
             | 
             | It probably wont stop overselling of assets but would
             | definitely take away a short term incentive.
        
               | danielmarkbruce wrote:
               | It's probably a good idea. Or, if they can't run deficits
               | (many US states have this) and asset sales don't count as
               | revenue you'd probably be in a similar situation.
        
           | Latty wrote:
           | If it is anything like the UK, it's a simple cycle of:
           | 
           | - Under-fund the public service because it "costs too much"
           | (ignore the value it generates for the public).
           | 
           | - Service performs poorly when underfunded, so you can
           | manufacture consent to sell it, argue that private ownership
           | will be more efficient.
           | 
           | - Sell it, creating short-term income you can use to spend on
           | stuff people (and your mates) like (often tax cuts), making
           | your government seem effective. You can also sell it to your
           | mates who then get easy profit milking a natural monopoly for
           | profit, probably kicking some back to you in the form of a
           | cushy "advisor" gig when you retire.
           | 
           | - Inevitably end up making the unprofitable parts of it
           | public again when the private providers simply stop doing it,
           | or go under trying to. You then have these expensive bits of
           | public service with no income-generating bits to offset them
           | you can point to and say public services are inefficient.
           | Private profits, public losses.
           | 
           | - Hey look, public services cost too much! We should under-
           | fund some other ones...
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | Yes.
        
       | dhsysusbsjsi wrote:
       | Imho anything that is a natural monopoly (where it makes zero
       | sense to build two of them), that requires a regulator to stop
       | citizens being taken to the cleaners, should be owned by the
       | state. Even if run "inefficiently" (you can find examples of
       | both, this is not clear), it is typically better for the people.
        
       | gtvwill wrote:
       | Erf bad luck people of Iceland. Remember folks cost + shareholder
       | profit will never be less than cost alone. Privatisation will
       | never make things cheaper.
        
       | moralestapia wrote:
       | This happened in Mexico around the 90s (IIRC) in a deal that was
       | heavily criticized within the country. The guy who acquired it
       | later became the richest man in Mexico (also worldwide for a few
       | years). So yeah, these are lucrative deals.
        
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