[HN Gopher] Microsoft banned me from playing Minecraft until I p...
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       Microsoft banned me from playing Minecraft until I provide personal
       info
        
       Author : vkoskiv
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2022-07-18 19:56 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | vkoskiv wrote:
       | Curious to hear the HN take on this. Some people I talked to
       | seemed to think this is a small hill to die on. Am I just weird
       | that I find this uncomfortable? The stated purpose is spam
       | prevention, but CAPTCHA exists for that purpose. I'd be more than
       | happy to fill out a CAPTCHA.
       | 
       | I've been happily playing Minecraft for 12 years now, and I've
       | gotten more than my money's worth out of that game. If my
       | insistence on privacy means that I can't play it anymore, then
       | perhaps that is a price I'm willing to pay. :(
        
         | norwalkbear wrote:
         | Minecraft is not a hard game to clone and even make better.
        
         | bravetraveler wrote:
         | I'm with you. Even if it's an over-exaggerated response to
         | something truly honest, I still support the sentiment. It's the
         | inevitable response to the frog [us] being boiled to where we
         | have no trust
         | 
         | With that said, I see this as thinly veiled data collection
         | under the guise of spam prevention. There are perfectly capable
         | methods that respect privacy as you mentioned. They chose to
         | have a mountain of data as a responsibility instead
         | 
         | I really wish the industry acted more like we do where we have
         | to (eg: HIPAA) -- if you don't need it, don't collect it.
        
         | nathanaldensr wrote:
         | I've been playing Minecraft with my kids since very early on.
         | It's now banned in my house. The heavy-handed approach from
         | Microsoft, including essentially making the game unplayable
         | after I already purchased it _multiple times_ (four to be
         | precise), is a bridge too far. I do not believe in  "renting"
         | games; if I purchase something, it's mine. If I don't take a
         | stand _somewhere_ then someday I will  "own nothing," and that
         | ain't happening. We'll proceed with other games like console
         | emulators, Stardew Valley, Terraria, etc.
        
           | cinntaile wrote:
           | Do you use Netflix or a similar service? If yes, what's the
           | difference?
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | I don't think it is very difficult to understand the
             | difference.
             | 
             | In the Netflix scenario, you know that you are purchasing a
             | subscription service that lets you access content
             | owned/distributed/licensed by Netflix. They aren't
             | advertising that you can _own_ Stranger Things, for
             | example. They advertise that you can _watch_ Stranger
             | Things on-demand. I don 't know of anyone who has purchased
             | a Netflix subscription and thought that they _own_ copies
             | of everything on Netflix.
             | 
             | In the game scenario, you believe that you are purchasing
             | the game. That's how they market it. The expectation is
             | that once you've made that transaction, you now own that
             | copy of that game to do with as you more or less please.
             | Play it offline, run a local server, put it away and pick
             | it up 10 years from now and still be able to play it, etc.
             | 
             | It's increasingly apparent that in many cases, even when
             | you buy something from a game store (MS, Sony, etc.) that
             | you aren't actually purchasing _the game_ , you're
             | purchasing the rights to access it through a particular
             | service. But that's _not_ how the advertise it. And no, I
             | don 't think burying this fact behind a few thousand words
             | of legalese is really addressing the issue at all.
             | 
             | If you don't understand why that distinction might upset
             | people, I don't know what to say.
        
               | daviddever23box wrote:
               | You can continue to play the game, up to a given version,
               | provided that you do not upgrade the launcher during that
               | period of time to a version that requires that you
               | provide personal data. You are not entitled to subsequent
               | updates or upgrades.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | You are forced to update the launcher and game if you
               | reinstall the OS or get a new computer, and most likely
               | it'll just auto-update without asking. There is no way to
               | download or archive old versions.
               | 
               | > You are not entitled to subsequent updates or upgrades.
               | 
               | Then those should be truly optional and the store page
               | should visibly state this limitation while keeping the
               | purchased version accessible.
        
               | cwillu wrote:
               | Worth noting that when I purchased minecraft back in
               | 2011, the store page did in fact (according to
               | archive.org) say:
               | 
               | "When you purchase Minecraft you do so as is, be it in
               | the early stages of development or already fully
               | released. Subsequent updates are only an added bonus and
               | not a guarantee, as icing on a cake. Purchases during the
               | development of the game are discounted and include the
               | full game upon release."
               | 
               | and
               | 
               | "When you purchase a game from us, you fill in your
               | personal/company details. You agree that we store and use
               | your information in our organization to complete the
               | agreement towards you. You have the right, according to
               | the law Personuppgiftslagen (PUL) in Sweden to know about
               | the information registered about you. If it is wrong,
               | insufficient or irrelevant you have the right to make
               | sure that it gets corrected or removed."
               | 
               | But the rest of your comment stands.
        
               | daviddever23box wrote:
               | I keep copies of any downloadable installer I use for
               | this very reason, as it's always possible that you'll
               | wish later that you'd kept that n-1th version.
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | Netflix doesn't have a "purchase" button under every
             | movie/series.
             | 
             | Buying games like Minecraft has always been marketed and
             | communicated as a purchase, just like you'd permanently buy
             | a physical product. Now publishers are slowly attempting to
             | effectively steal or lock away those products after we paid
             | for them. Those two things in combination are not okay,
             | publishers should either be honest or keep their word.
        
               | daviddever23box wrote:
               | ...or not get acquired.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | A purchase is a purchase. Whether I buy a TV or a game,
               | nobody should be able to take away access after I paid
               | for it. Otherwise write "rent" on the button and clearly
               | state that I might lose access at any time if the
               | publisher feels like it.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | > Some people I talked to seemed to think this is a small hill
         | to die on
         | 
         | This phrase always rubs me the wrong way, this thinking is how
         | our freedoms slowly slip away.
         | 
         | I've been told the same about the TSA, people checking
         | receipts, avoiding most social media, etc etc. It's maddening
         | that so many people are blah about things that they probably
         | shouldn't be, and then further try make others feel bad for
         | standing up for what's right.
         | 
         | In short, no you aren't weird - everyone else is. Doing what
         | you believe in is noble. But that's coming from another weirdo
         | :).
        
       | daviddever23box wrote:
       | After multiple attempts from third parties to co-opt my kids'
       | accounts (and the resulting multi-factor authentication efforts
       | required to take them back), I'd happily take the Microsoft-
       | account path than the Mojang approach.
       | 
       | Small hill? Yes, life's too short.
       | 
       | Also, surveillance-state concerns aside, personal info is one way
       | to keep child predators aware of the fact that their actions can
       | be traced back to a real person.
        
         | ls15 wrote:
         | > personal info is one way to keep child predators aware of the
         | fact that their actions can be traced back to a real person.
         | 
         | And in case of a data leak, all the (anonymous) predators know
         | which players are children and where they live.
        
           | daviddever23box wrote:
           | They can get that from census data. Thank you for playing.
        
         | discretion22 wrote:
         | You're really going there?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
        
           | daviddever23box wrote:
           | You're going there? It has less to do with them than me
           | having to take the time to address an issue that should never
           | have existed in the first place.
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | Are you implying that everything done in the name of
           | protecting children is always a Helen Lovejoy kind of
           | overreaction?
        
       | lacker wrote:
       | They should give you a refund if you don't want to provide
       | personal information and you didn't agree to this up front, but
       | at the same time, I do want Minecraft to police its userbase
       | pretty actively, because my kids use it and they are not
       | sophisticated about things like phishing attacks. Roblox is far
       | more unsupervised and anecdotally it's far easier to stumble into
       | kid-inappropriate things on Roblox.
       | 
       | Captcha just isn't as good, spammers and other bad actors can get
       | captchas done at scale a lot cheaper than they can acquire burner
       | phone numbers.
        
         | gmemstr wrote:
         | _Is it_ up to Mojang/Microsoft to police this? Most multiplayer
         | activity takes place on third party servers (I'm pretty sure
         | this is the case for their Bedrock edition as well as Java
         | edition), which have their own teams of moderators and
         | administrators, or are small and private. Not quite sure how
         | phishing etc. plays into this.
        
       | antonymy wrote:
       | I paid for my Minecraft account a long time ago, over a decade,
       | and I've generally felt like it was money well spent. I've got a
       | lot of hours of enjoyment out of Minecraft and I was glad to
       | support the developer. The fact this purchase was honored for so
       | long across changes in ownership and account migrations also made
       | me feel good about the purchase. Now though, I'm not feeling like
       | having a paid account is a good value. It's just subjecting me to
       | ever more levels of control by Microsoft that pirates don't have
       | to put up with.
        
       | norwalkbear wrote:
       | Embrace, extend, extinguish.
       | 
       | I truly hate Microsoft.
        
         | Koshkin wrote:
         | In Soviet Russia, Microsoft hates _you_! Oh, wait...
        
       | cwillu wrote:
       | The text purchase screen that was displayed to me when I bought
       | minecraft back in 2011, in case anyone cares:
       | Purchase now!         When Minecraft is finished, it will sell
       | for EUR20.00.         If you pre-purchase now during beta, you
       | pay just EUR14.95!              Please note that when you buy the
       | game, you're paying for the game as it is right now!         You
       | will also get the full version of Minecraft when it is released.
       | Read the copyright information for more information on your
       | purchase.         Please log in or register to pre purchase.
       | (Click here to buy the game for someone other than yourself)
       | Here's what you get:         .* You get early access to the game
       | to a discounted price!         .* You help fund the development
       | of Minecraft         .* Custom skins in multiplayer         .*
       | Once you've bought the game, it's yours. No DRM.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-18 23:02 UTC)