[HN Gopher] How Urban Legend Destroyed the Ball Pit
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Urban Legend Destroyed the Ball Pit
        
       Author : bcohen123
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2022-07-18 13:08 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (meghanboilard.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (meghanboilard.substack.com)
        
       | xwdv wrote:
       | I've forgotten what it's like to be in ball pits. Are they even
       | swimmable or do you just sink straight down? What if there was a
       | very deep ball pit, think 12 feet or so. Could it be escaped by
       | swimming back up?
        
         | 9991 wrote:
         | I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. The balls are very
         | light, so there's almost no buoyancy. The only way to support
         | yourself is if the balls are locked in place from the force of
         | your foot stepping on it, which might work for a stack 2~3
         | balls in height at the most before it becomes unstable and
         | slips out from underneath you.
        
       | rootsudo wrote:
       | I came here thinking it was the infamous tumblr Ball Pit.
       | https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/dashcon
        
       | darkstar999 wrote:
       | The Rise & Fall of The Ball Pit - Theme Park Crazy
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uahX7iEl_fI
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | I just assumed they were removed because they were too hard to
       | clean.
        
       | yxwvut wrote:
       | The article describes the lack of sanitation as a baseless part
       | of the negative mythology, but a dearth of scientific studies
       | (and questions of generalizability of the existing studies) does
       | not mean that their reputation is without merit. When your kid
       | finds turds in the ball pit you don't need a study to know
       | there's a sanitation problem. Anecdotally, as a child I had a
       | near 100% rate of coming down with an infection after visiting
       | the local ball pit and witnessed the discovery of fecal matter by
       | another child, which, combined with the repeated illness, led to
       | a ban on further visits.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | Based on the frequency of my kids getting infected at daycare,
         | I assume any activity where toddlers or even a little older get
         | together has a near certain chance of transmission. Although, I
         | still would not take my chances with a ball pit that I doubt is
         | ever thoroughly cleaned.
        
           | hgomersall wrote:
           | Except, strangely enough, according to my anecdata, not
           | COVID-19. For nearly 2 years there were, AFAICT, almost no
           | cases of COVID transmission through our nursery. I'd love
           | this to be followed up properly. I have a theory that not
           | only are the kids more resistant, but the parents are too due
           | to the circulation of the other coronaviruses in pre-school
           | children, along with all the other various infections.
           | 
           | It's all changed somewhat with Omicron, but then it has
           | everywhere.
        
             | Dennip wrote:
             | But could this simply be down to the fact that people were
             | actively managing/combatting COVID-19?
        
               | hgomersall wrote:
               | Maybe, but have you tried actively managing infection
               | control policy in a group of 0 to 5 year olds?
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | That could be said until this year, but in France all
               | restrictions where lifted before the presidential
               | elections in April this year (for real) and weren't
               | reintroduced ever since (even though we've had 2 Covid
               | waves and 27k death in the meantime).
               | 
               | Yet, there's still no covid outbreak at my sons'
               | daycare...
        
         | spacemanmatt wrote:
         | SAME. We learned fast that other parents gambled with diapers
         | in public/shared places.
        
         | romwell wrote:
         | As an adult who grew up in country where ball pits simply
         | weren't a thing:
         | 
         | My own ball pit? Hell yeah!
         | 
         | A public ball pit _for adults_? Depends on the crowd.
         | 
         | A ball pit for _children_? Haha no, there 's no way someone
         | didn't pee their pants in there, or dropped some food or snot.
         | 
         | It's surprising just how much mess a single chocolate bar can
         | create.
         | 
         | I'd say actual junk playgrounds sound more sanitary.
        
         | x0x0 wrote:
         | And ignores all the people saying that cleaning them is the
         | problem.
         | 
         | I'm yet another person who worked at a place with a ballpit as
         | a teen. I loathed it. One Karen lets her brat with diarrhea in,
         | and it's closed for 2+ hours as someone making minimum wage
         | loads every single ball, some with shit on them, into a net bag
         | and runs it through the commercial dishwasher. Then hand wipes
         | every tube.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, a line of other Karens are taking out their rage at
         | not having the ballpit available to them Right. This. Instant!
         | on a bunch of minimum wage coworkers.
         | 
         | At least three times a month during summer, btw.
        
           | plasma_beam wrote:
           | Is there any other term than "Karen" you can use here? It's
           | pretty offensive to anyone with a Karen in their life.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | thecans7 wrote:
         | Exactly! And anecdotally speaking, almost every single one that
         | I entered as a kid smelled like urine. Not that it ever stopped
         | us from playing in it, but even as kids we knew that it wasn't
         | a clean place.
        
       | noasaservice wrote:
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | The playground my city just opened (new suburb: was a corn
         | field 2 years ago) has several merry-go-round things. They are
         | speed limited unlike the ones of the past, but they exist. I've
         | seen park catalogs with them - the tic-tac-toe game is a cheap
         | option for a playground, the good stuff is expensive. (several
         | companies have their prices online if you google - don't
         | confuse park with home playgrounds though when you search)
        
         | InefficientRed wrote:
         | I just enumerated the playgrounds our exurb and ALL except 1
         | have at least one of the things you mentioned. Most have both
         | monkey bars and swings.
         | 
         | The exception is a splash pad playground, so not really
         | indicative of any sort of trend (except perhaps that our
         | summers got a lot hotter over the last 20 years).
         | 
         | There are parks that do not have any playground, but those are
         | mostly either dedicated sports fields, "adult-oriented parks"
         | (eg the city commons), or nature-oriented parks (with trails,
         | trees, and water). So not the sort of parks that ever had
         | playgrounds in the first place.
         | 
         | Additionally, we now have some parks with natural climbing
         | walls that you need to bring ropes to use, which is quite a bit
         | less safe than marry-go-rounds and what-not. (I've never seen
         | them used without adult involvement, but TBF a fall from the
         | top would probably actually kill/seriously harm a kid).
        
         | scohesc wrote:
         | I've noticed this too compared to when I was younger there's a
         | lot more mental games in playgrounds, replacing the physical,
         | more "risky" activities.
         | 
         | I guess it's easier for schools/cities to eliminate any
         | possible risk of getting sued at the expense of childhood
         | development.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | If it makes you feel better, the kids usually end up
           | scampering around/on top of the play areas anyway, sometimes
           | a good 20 feet off the ground (the equivalent of jumping from
           | roof to roof on something like
           | https://www.playgroundequipment.com/figgs-landing/ ).
        
             | scohesc wrote:
             | Ah heck, maybe the kids will be fine then lol
        
         | seabea wrote:
         | Yeah, as a parent of a young child, all those things are still
         | extremely common (at least at all the playgrounds I've see
         | constructed in the past 5 years). Many even have 10ft+ rope
         | structures and 15ft tall slides.
         | 
         | Sure there are more "thought games" and the merry-go-rounds
         | won't pin and drag a child across the ground.
         | 
         | I mostly take my child to metroparks in my area. I wouldn't be
         | surprised if school playgrounds have been made _safer_ due to
         | less individual supervision and liability for the school.
        
           | xattt wrote:
           | I've gone to a recently constructed playground with my child
           | over the last few years, and I was able to observe the risk
           | assessment strategies they took as they developed.
           | 
           | The playground in question has a truss ladder leading up to a
           | playground platform that's about two storeys off the ground.
           | Dangerous stuff for a toddler just getting the hang of the
           | playground, and they would self-select themselves out of it.
           | However, as they grew, so did their abilities and they
           | climbed higher and higher.
           | 
           | Yes, overly risk-managed playgrounds were a thing late 90s
           | and 2000s, but risky play structures are making a comeback.
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | _laughs in German_
         | 
         | Go through the pics here:
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/maps/place/Spielplatz+mit+Kletterspin...
        
           | roflyear wrote:
           | Looks like many playgrounds in the US. I searched for "Best
           | NYC Playgrounds" and these look seriously awesome!
           | 
           | https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x89c258ed8c5b1c0d%3A0x.
           | ..
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | But... the children! Won't somebody think of the children!
           | Oh, they did, you say? I see :)
        
             | Traubenfuchs wrote:
             | To be honest, that thing is scary even for me as fit adult
             | male. One little mistake and I could seriously hurt myself.
             | Same for the children. I would be very uncomfortable
             | letting my own child climb around on this to be honest. I
             | would probably let it, but feel bad the whole time.
        
               | Cockbrand wrote:
               | I used to play on that kind of thing in my childhood. A
               | child can (and probably at some point will) fall down,
               | but usually not from the highest point, but rather while
               | climbing. Also, there's sand underneath, so the landing
               | is somewhat softened. That said, it's still easy to
               | seriously hurt oneself on that, but I was aware of that
               | as a child and acted accordingly.
        
               | schwartzworld wrote:
               | Those rope structures are harder to fall off than you
               | think. Ropes are easy to grab and don't get slippery or
               | hot.
        
           | bhandziuk wrote:
           | This looks like every new playground I've been to in the US
        
             | corrral wrote:
             | Yeah, all of our new ones around here seem to use some
             | Dutch or German (I can't remember which) company and look
             | almost exactly like that. All their merry-go-round type
             | things _are_ very different from the old ones we were used
             | to, and IMO less good, but they probably also produce fewer
             | injuries than the old design. They tend to come with
             | notices warning that you probably don 't want to let your
             | 4-year-old get on some of the equipment, because it's _not_
             | extremely safe for all ages. Some have climbing structures
             | like the one in the picture that go up to about 2.5
             | stories.
             | 
             | Middle of the country, and we're usually like a decade
             | behind trends on the coasts. There was a brief "rip out all
             | the fun stuff" trend but it didn't last long and that was
             | more of an '00s thing.
        
             | seabea wrote:
             | Yeah, it seems that a lot of folks haven't seen a new
             | playground in the last 25 years.
        
         | ehutch79 wrote:
         | It sucks that tic-tac-toe is not mentally stimulating enough
         | for you.
         | 
         | But... Just what are you doing at those playgrounds?
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | I like the monkey bars :-)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I'm watching my kids play with all the other kids. tic-tac-
           | toe is an indoor game and you rarely see kids finish a game
           | before running off to do something else. Once in a while a
           | kid will move something, but I've only once seen a complete
           | game.
           | 
           | Parks need more swings, slides, merry-go-rounds, and lots
           | more interesting obstacles to run over/under/around. (run is
           | key: if you can't navigate it without getting caught in a
           | game of tag it is too slow and won't be used much) The other
           | stuff isn't what kids go to a playground for.
        
         | clintonb wrote:
         | That's just wrong.
         | 
         | My favorite park in Sacramento, McKinley Park [0], has a merry-
         | go-round with spinning cages, swings, and multiple places to
         | climb.
         | 
         | Jean Sweeney [1], in Alameda, has one of the coolest slides,
         | and a zip line!
         | 
         | Emeryville [2] I'll has a vertical playground!
         | 
         | I'm jealous of the fun my kid has at these parks, and try to
         | join in on the fun as often as I can.
         | 
         | [0] http://www.raebear.net/2016/07/mckinley-park-in-east-
         | sacrame...
         | 
         | [1] https://www.alamedaca.gov/Departments/Recreation-
         | Parks/Jean-...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.510families.com/eccls-vertical-playground/
        
           | djbusby wrote:
           | Jean Sweeney is very new, and not completed yet either. Has a
           | fun tower to climb (tight for those over 180cm) that wide
           | slide and the zipline is pretty good. When the rest is
           | finished it should be even cooler. Also, if you're around
           | there check out the Pinball Museum on Webster (used to be the
           | record store)
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | This is anecdotal "in my day" knee-jerk stuff... I've seen new
         | playgrounds go up in my city and they've got monkey bars,
         | swings, and merry-go-rounds with nets that kids can climb on.
         | 
         | AFAIK Kompan is the most popular playground equipment company
         | around, and you can see all sorts of the stuff you list in
         | their catalog: https://www.kompan.us
        
         | youngNed wrote:
         | Facebook is leaking.
        
         | midasuni wrote:
         | Certainly not my experience, I can't think of a single
         | playground I've been to recently that didn't have at least 3 of
         | swing, monkey bar, see saw and slide
        
         | Pxtl wrote:
         | The playground nearest my home is brand new and has a merry go
         | round, swings, and metal monkey bars.
         | 
         | And I live in Canada, which modern political discourse has
         | decried as a communist dictatorship.
         | 
         | If anything, there has been a shift away from the overly-kiddy
         | playgrounds of the late '90s/early-'00s into playgrounds that
         | allow kids to embrace their desire for mayhem. Heights may
         | still be disappointingly low, but otherwise there's plenty of
         | tools for kids to spin themselves sick. One of the larger
         | playgrounds in my city has a gigantic teeter totter that
         | support a dozen kids crammed onto the platforms on each side,
         | which is AFAIK a new invention. It also sports a pump track for
         | adventurous kids on bikes.
        
           | memcg wrote:
           | The dangerous playgrounds of 1900s through vintage
           | photographs
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31855163
           | 
           | Maybe this explains all the "You Probably Have Less
           | Testosterone Than Your Grandfather (and Grandmother??) Did"
           | claims.
        
         | wnevets wrote:
         | When was the last time you were at a playground? You're
         | sounding like a facebook parody post.
        
       | cbanek wrote:
       | Here I thought this would be about dashcon and the beloved ball
       | pit. Extra time in the ball pit for all.
        
       | peggmeg wrote:
       | Hi! This is the author of this piece, and since a lot of you seem
       | to be interested in rise and fall of the ball pit, I wanted to
       | add that there are two exceptions where the ball pit seems to
       | live on (at least in the US):
       | 
       | - Here and there, you'll find ball pits that seem to exist for
       | the sole purpose of providing Instagram photo ops and seem to be
       | more for adults than children (The Color Factory chain of museums
       | is a notable example)
       | 
       | - There also seems to be a growing demand for private ball pit
       | rentals in the same vein of the rental bouncy houses you'll find
       | sometimes at children's parties
       | 
       | I couldn't find a ton of up-to-date information concerning ball
       | pits outside of North America, so it's interesting to hear that
       | they're still alive and well in Europe! I suspected they might be
       | thriving elsewhere based on this sort of silly article about a
       | woman getting stuck in a ball pit in Singapore
       | 
       | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/desperate-mum-drown...
       | 
       | Anyway, thanks for reading!
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | FYI, there is a big business of playplaces in Canada, and by
         | and large, they appear to be independently run. Most of the
         | ones I've been to have ball pits. The _good_ ones have
         | pneumatic  "cannons" that kids can shoot the same balls out of.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | _Here and there, you 'll find ball pits that seem to exist for
         | the sole purpose of providing Instagram photo ops and seem to
         | be more for adults than children_
         | 
         | Come to think of it, the last time I saw a ball pit was at a
         | party where Lipton was promoting sparkling iced tea (so there
         | was a general bubble theme). You jumped into a ball pit and
         | they took a video so you could post it to Instagram, or
         | whatever.
        
         | philliphaydon wrote:
         | In Taiwan and Singapore, ball pits exist in like every single
         | childrens in-door playground.
         | 
         | https://honeykidsasia.com/indoor-play-centres-in-singapore-f...
         | 
         | Few of these have photos.
         | 
         | Here's a couple of local articles about the mum drowning in the
         | ball pit and the response from AirZone.
         | 
         | https://mothership.sg/2018/02/airzone-suspended-playground-s...
         | 
         | https://mothership.sg/2018/02/suspended-playground-net/
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | I can't help but think of the Dashcon ball pit meme whenever ball
       | pits are mentioned. See at about 3:40
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZgxeX2dCnQ
        
         | dgaaaaaaaaaa wrote:
         | An almost hour long Dashcon video:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPwgSXZJcok
        
         | sn0w_crash wrote:
         | JUMP IN THE PIT
        
         | ta988 wrote:
         | For those that don't want or can't watch a video:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DashCon
        
       | dosman33 wrote:
       | Heh, before the internet rumor mill existed, I had friends who
       | worked at fast food joints with ball pits. They ALWAYS complained
       | about kids pissing in the ball pits. That scared me off from ever
       | messing with them as a young adult (and they didn't have them
       | around my area when I was the right age/size to play in one).
        
       | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
       | I really hope the adventure playgrounds mentioned are still a
       | thing.
       | 
       | The ones in Germany were a bit more organized than just a pile of
       | junk, but you basically went there, maybe parents paid some
       | (nominal) fee or deposit, and you got a toolbox with basic hand
       | tools like a saw, hammer and nails and there was plenty of wood
       | to build with.
       | 
       | Larger structures were clearly built with some guidance and
       | probably a civil engineer because there were multi-story
       | buildings.
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | Yeah, I don't think we're giving kids saws and nails to play
         | with.
         | 
         | Saying that where I grew up there were a lot of homes being
         | built so there were piles of scrap wood, etc all over and we'd
         | raid them and build forts using saws and nails from our dads'
         | workshops. So maybe we are overprotective today.
        
           | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
           | The nice thing about such basic hand tools is that you
           | usually get to learn from mistakes without permanent
           | consequences. Will a child hurt themselves at least once with
           | a saw and a hammer? Probably. Will they _seriously_ hurt
           | themselves? Probably not. Will they learn to not hurt
           | themselves? Almost certainly.
           | 
           | I also don't remember how exactly supervision works, but it
           | definitely isn't just dumping a bunch of kids at some
           | unattended construction site. Parents and/or the team
           | managing the place are at the very least nearby.
        
       | secondcoming wrote:
       | TLDR: They got rid of them due to a hoax originating from South
       | Africa that a child got spiked with a heroin needle and died from
       | an overdose.
        
       | namdnay wrote:
       | I guess this is limited to the US? Ball pits are going strong
       | here in Europe, they're a staple of every indoor playpark.
       | 
       | There's a special machine for cleaning them, it looks a bit like
       | the robot from teletubbies
        
         | chomp wrote:
         | No, ball pits are ubiquitous at most indoor play parks here
         | too, the author is extrapolating their disappearance from fast
         | food restaurants, and correlating it to the 90s rumor mill.
         | These rumors were definitely a thing, but more than just ball
         | pits have been removed; most McDonald's locations have had
         | their entire PlayPlaces removed, due to the fact that people
         | don't sit down in fast food restaurants anymore, and also a
         | general race to the bottom in terms of economics to remain
         | competitive.
        
           | richiebful1 wrote:
           | They've almost entirely eliminated fast food play areas in
           | the Northeast, but I was surprised to see them everywhere in
           | Lexington KY. I wonder why.
        
             | bfuller wrote:
             | A lot of McDonald's are franchised, its probably up to the
             | franchise owner whether or not to build a play area. In the
             | age of covid and monkeypox I doubt many franchisees would
             | shell out the cash.
        
           | tinus_hn wrote:
           | And of course they have been closed for COVID for a few
           | years.
        
           | chrisco255 wrote:
           | They're still common in Chick-Fil-A, and they complement the
           | playgrounds with family night activities for kids on certain
           | days of the week. Chick-fil-A prob doing better than ever
           | too.
        
             | bpodgursky wrote:
             | Chick-Fil-A's core demographic is somewhat wealthier than
             | McDonalds (the food is somewhat more expensive), and I
             | think that helps keep the play areas clean and organized.
             | 
             | (fewer parents trying to use it as free daycare...)
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | They require the franchisee to be a full time manager so
               | they are more invested in the cleanliness of the store.
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | I've never been to Chick-Fil-A, I'm not a big chicken guy,
             | but now I think about it the one near me does have a spot
             | for play place and none of the other chains do. Guess I'll
             | have to try them out, any business that goes out of their
             | way to make the experience fun for kids will get some of my
             | money.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Research their political donations first before deciding
               | to patronize them.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | given that they're closed on sunday you don't really have
               | to do any research to know they're a christian
               | organization
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | That isn't the issue. Lobbying the government to strip
               | people of their liberty is.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | yea, like i said, christian organization
        
               | dole wrote:
               | From what I've noticed, the Chik-Fil-A playplaces are
               | considerably smaller than the McD's and BK places of
               | yore, just fair warning, YMMV.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I did not even know chick fil a had play areas (between
             | west coast and north east). I thought all the play areas in
             | McDonalds and Burger King had closed down due to liability
             | reasons.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I haven't seen a _new_ play area in years, but some of
               | the older franchise locations continue to run the ones
               | they have.
        
             | collegeburner wrote:
             | Tbh Chick-Fil-A is the only fast food restaurant where im
             | like "damn this slaps" not "meh its food ig". Food i
             | actually like eating at fast food prices.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | Chicken Fillet is good; but I'd hardly describe it as
               | "fast-food prices." Although it is fast food. It's more
               | like a chain restaurant prices (think Olive Garden and
               | such).
        
               | corrral wrote:
               | No fast food places have "fast food prices" anymore
               | unless you heavily coupon and/or use their apps. Seems to
               | be a method of price discrimination. If you're poor you
               | know about the app and coupons and never pay menu prices.
               | If you're not then you think "god damn, fast food got
               | expensive" and pay menu price anyway, when you happen to
               | go to such an establishment.
               | 
               | Like, they've always done coupons, but menu prices used
               | to also not be a complete rip-off. They are, now.
        
               | aerostable_slug wrote:
               | In-N-Out is a nice exception. I don't think I've ever
               | even seen an In-N-Out coupon.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | mlyle wrote:
           | Yah, and to be honest-- good riddance. PlayPlace was
           | definitely non-core, not-well maintained, etc.
        
             | foolfoolz wrote:
             | because they used to market to kids. the whole place was
             | kid oriented. fast food switched their demographic to
             | adults about 15 years ago with great success
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | I'm glad you have a machine for cleaning them. One thing I
         | noticed in the US, even as a child, was that ball pits were
         | filthy and musty. I don't think they were ever cleaned.
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | Video of the "Ball Washing Machine" (this is actually from
           | the US):
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrHvFiePokI
           | 
           | This is UK:
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8VjIJuMyiE
        
             | Baeocystin wrote:
             | Huh. That goes a lot slower than I would have expected. I
             | wonder at their procedure for getting all the dirty ones
             | out before the freshly-cleaned ones start piling back in.
             | 
             | Not complaining, glad to see them taking hygiene seriously.
        
       | asdff wrote:
       | Playgrounds in restaurants take staff time to clean. You have to
       | do the windows since they get all fingerprinted. You have to
       | sweep and mop the floors. Usually you send someone into the
       | structure itself with a pack of sanitizer wipes and hope for the
       | best. At a busy fast food place like chickfila, where they staff
       | 15 people on a closing shift, they can afford to have an area
       | like this. At a mcdonalds with a staff of 2, no chance.
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | My kids' school has actually retained some elements of the junk
       | playground. In the courtyard play area, there is a wealth of
       | scrap wood that the kids use for building projects. When we did
       | the tour before enrolling our kids, the older kids had just built
       | a shed which I thought was appropriate because the school is
       | based on John Dewey's progressive education ideals, with his
       | central example he returned to many times in his writings being,
       | building a shed.
       | 
       | Amusingly, the director of the school, didn't know this.
        
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