[HN Gopher] Show HN: If VS Code had a data-centric IDE sibling, ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: If VS Code had a data-centric IDE sibling, what would that
       look like?
        
       Author : jonathan_re
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2022-07-18 09:09 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | rubenfiszel wrote:
       | Hey, you mention that it is open-source but I cannot actually see
       | the source code in that repo.
       | 
       | EDIT: I can some sources in other repo of the same org, for
       | instance: https://github.com/code-kern-ai/refinery-ui so it's
       | just a matter of making it easy for dev to navigate the code.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Hi Ruben,
         | 
         | you can take a look at our architecture overview here:
         | https://github.com/code-kern-ai/refinery#-architecture
         | 
         | A bit below it, you find a table with the links to all
         | repositories. All of them are open-source. But thanks for the
         | feedback, I'll try to make it a bit easier to understand! I
         | appreciate that! :)
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | It would look a lot like JetBrains DataGrip.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | knighthack wrote:
       | Jetbrains has one specifically for this: DataSpell -
       | https://www.jetbrains.com/dataspell/.
       | 
       | It's like a tweaked version of DataGrip + PyCharm, but catering
       | specifically to the particular needs of data scientists.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | I just got this to make working with Zeppelin worksheets more
         | bearable. It's such an improvement over the web interface, it's
         | hard to describe. At least for someone already used to their
         | software. As a bonus, I also get the best Cassandra GUI I've
         | seen so far.
        
       | tunga_ wrote:
        
       | Tom_Brune wrote:
       | Looks nice! Which data types does the software support?
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Hi Tom! Thanks, happy to hear that :)
         | 
         | We've focused on JSON as the user-specified data model. So you
         | can upload anything fitting into a JSON. We're using pandas to
         | process the uploaded data, so spreadsheets or CSV-ish also
         | work.
         | 
         | We've got a public roadmap (https://github.com/code-kern-
         | ai/refinery/projects/1), and we're looking forward to also
         | integrate e.g. native PDF labeling sometime soon.
        
       | KindAndFriendly wrote:
       | As a fellow HPI graduate, I wish you all the best :)
        
       | belalw wrote:
       | That looks cool. Are there any similar tools? Did not have seen
       | something like that before.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | The most famous is arguably Snorkel, which started with an
         | open-source library as a research project. We used that a lot
         | ourselves, but the library by now is deprecated.
         | 
         | We aim to extend on that idea by providing something that comes
         | as close to a programmable interface for data-centric tasks as
         | possible, and do so via open-source.
         | 
         | There are lots of cool tools out there btw. in that area.
         | Definitely worth to have a look at a landscape (haha idea for
         | the next HN post incoming I guess :D)
        
       | faheel wrote:
       | In case you're looking for a VS Code extension to quickly
       | preview, filter and plot data from various file formats you can
       | check out vscode-data-preview [0]
       | 
       | [0]:
       | https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=RandomFr...
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Awesome, thanks for the suggestion. Already installed :)
        
       | p1anecrazy wrote:
       | Looks very promising! Are you planning to release it as an
       | application?
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Hey, thanks! :) What exactly do you mean with application? You
         | can just pull the repository. As mentioned in the installation
         | section, it is quite easy to start the app on your local host.
        
         | jkukul wrote:
         | Looks like a managed application is already offered:
         | https://docs.kern.ai/docs/saas-application
        
       | lightbringa wrote:
       | Kind of hard to imagine a VS Code sibling for the whole data
       | centric eco system. Maybe something like a base platform with
       | multiple extension points for different tasks and the ability for
       | others to extend the platform? (so like extensions in VS Code)
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | I think so too. Mostly that it is something open. I also
         | believe that it will change the workflow a bit, and that DVC
         | will play a major role in it for versioning your different data
         | hypotheses. Let's see, exciting times ahead!
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | The title should probably reflect that this is specifically for
       | managing NLP labeling tasks. It looks like a great project! Years
       | ago I bought a book on data prep and labeling for NLP, and based
       | on that book this project looks like it covers the main workflows
       | you would need.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Hey Mark, I totally agree. We're focusing on NLP, but we're
         | generally interested in what programming will develop into.
         | 
         | To exaggerate a bit, but I like that idea: With "regular
         | programming" (not the best term, but I mean rule-based systems
         | etc.), you used to develop via punch cards. You had to think
         | multiple times before "compiling" something, right? I believe
         | that we're currently in that phase regarding supervised
         | learning development. If you have a labeling project, you need
         | to plan this long in advance, ...
         | 
         | We're in love with VS Code, but we're missing something like
         | this for AI. Our application tries to show how developers can
         | program their training data, i.e. refine raw data into training
         | data, and do so with many programmatic approaches. We're trying
         | to show how something like this could look like (hence the
         | title), and do so in NLP.
         | 
         | But again - I agree with you :)
        
       | franciscop wrote:
       | Data-centric IDE screams like Excel!
        
         | localhost wrote:
         | I'm curious: what would need to be added to Excel to do this?
        
           | jhoetter wrote:
           | My guess (some if this we already have, some we don't): -
           | automation: integration of heuristics (multiple columns that
           | you can program via formulas and such) - exploration: finding
           | outliers or most similar records given some reference (e.g.
           | "I want to label more rows that are about business news in
           | some extent") - monitoring - labelmanagement [which we don't
           | offer yet in the extent we'd like to]: merging and splitting
           | labels etc.
           | 
           | generally anything that scales and "somewhat" guarantees the
           | users to input valid labels.
           | 
           | But it definitely offers something that new tools don't:
           | users are super familiar with it.
        
             | localhost wrote:
             | Do NLP users use Excel naturally already?
        
       | hadrien01 wrote:
       | Microsoft has a fork of VS Code called Azure Data Studio. It's
       | made for DB queries and notebooks:
       | https://github.com/Microsoft/azuredatastudio
        
         | wanderingmind wrote:
         | Followup: Is there a VSCodium equivalent for that (reproducible
         | build, no tracking)
        
           | notpushkin wrote:
           | I think there isn't, and if there is it would be illegal:
           | 
           | > You may not sublicense the Software Code or any use of it
           | 
           | https://github.com/microsoft/azuredatastudio/blob/main/LICEN.
           | ..
        
             | shhsshs wrote:
             | To publish a version of Azure Data Studio with open-source
             | binaries would fall under copy/modification rules, which
             | are explicitly allowed in the license:
             | 
             | > Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") grants you a
             | nonexclusive, perpetual, royalty-free right to use, copy,
             | and modify the software code provided by us ("Software
             | Code").
             | 
             | It would not be a sublicense.
        
         | BrentOzar wrote:
         | > Microsoft has a fork of VS Code called Azure Data Studio
         | 
         | It's pretty buggy, and they haven't made much progress on
         | fixing the bugs. I've used it pretty much since it came out - I
         | do Microsoft SQL Server & Postgres work on my Mac - and the
         | _thousands_ of open issues on a relatively new product say
         | something:
         | 
         | https://github.com/microsoft/azuredatastudio/issues
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | I've also had queries (usually really large ones) run without
           | issue in SSMS but crash Azure Data Studio. The only
           | advantages that Azure Data Studio really has over SSMS is
           | that it's a lot snappier (unless you're working with really
           | large queries) and it has a dark mode. Other than that SSMS
           | seems better in just about every way still.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | SSMS is also a multi-GB install full of stuff not useful to
             | anyone who isn't a 100% fulltime DBA versus Azure Data
             | Studio is barely more than the usual Electron app install
             | footprint and leaves the lesser needed functions to
             | plugins/extensions, and ADS supports cross platform work
             | (the above commenter mentions working on macOS) where SSMS
             | is not cross platform at all. Azure Data Studio has plenty
             | of advantages over SSMS.
             | 
             | As a developer, I understand my need to have all 20-120+
             | GBs of Visual Studio installed, but between SSDT in Visual
             | Studio and Azure Data Studio, I am happy to avoid spending
             | all that hard drive space on SSMS for features I don't need
             | as a developer.
        
           | nojito wrote:
           | >and the thousands of open issues on a relatively new product
           | say something:
           | 
           | That's generally a good thing. If a product had no issues
           | that would mean that there's no uptick in usage.
        
           | linsomniac wrote:
           | I've been using Azure Data Studio for a few tasks over the
           | last year or so, and it's worked fine. Just another data
           | point. I'm running it under Linux, because SSMS is not
           | available for Linux.
        
       | John23832 wrote:
       | It would look like Datagrip without the ridiculous yearly
       | subscriptions.
        
         | mgkimsal wrote:
         | It's likely because I buy 'individual' license, so my costs are
         | lower, but I'm not sure what's all that 'ridiculous' about the
         | subscription. If you pay for a year, you get that version
         | forever, just without updates to newer versions. VERY similar
         | to ... back in the 90s... going to a store and buying a CD with
         | software on it, and using it 'forever'. Eventually, it didn't
         | work with newer stuff, so you upgraded to a new version (with
         | more money).
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | That is a really fantastic model. It makes so much sense in
           | retrospect. Kudos to all at Jetbrains!
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | Their subscriptions couldn't possibly be fairer. An annual
         | individual license costs what, two hours of wages? And you get
         | a perpetual fallback, and a 40% continuity discount. It's
         | incredibly reasonable.
        
           | mgkimsal wrote:
           | Even more "incredibly reasonable" behaviour: giving 30 day
           | access to EAPs which always seem to be updated every 30 days
           | anyway means that almost anyone could, with a bit of work,
           | use their products for 'free' long term.
           | 
           | I know the price is going up in Oct, and I will likely 'buy
           | ahead' 2-3 years at the current price now to save a bit
           | extra.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | MLEngeneer wrote:
       | Certainly looks interesting! Will give it a try.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Nice, thanks. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate
         | to contact us. Here's our Discord:
         | https://discord.com/invite/qf4rGCEphW
        
       | pdenton wrote:
       | Excel
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Maybe also PowerPoint?
        
         | intrasight wrote:
         | Also Power BI
        
       | xpil wrote:
       | As I work mostly on MSSQL Server, the sweet spot for me is SSMS
       | with RedGate SQL Prompt.
       | 
       | For non-MSSQL things, it's usually DBeaver.
       | 
       | No need for a new IDE for me.
        
         | pak9rabid wrote:
         | DBeaver is my go-to for anything that it supports (PostgreSQL,
         | mainly). It's glorious.
        
       | Francis_Wuton wrote:
       | Amazing project! After testing it for a few minutes, I think this
       | is a handsome tool. Smooth and functional.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Thanks Francis! Means a lot :)
        
       | bvm wrote:
       | This actually seems like a major leap forward in a really
       | underloved space. Congratulations on your release.
       | 
       | If anyone is remotely interested in data-labelling/exploration, I
       | would definitely recommend checking this out, it has some really
       | exciting features, for example, built-in zero shot classification
       | for heuristics/baselines: https://docs.kern.ai/docs/building-
       | zero-shot-classifiers
       | 
       | I'm also really impressed with the architecture! Very neat.
       | 
       | Not affiliated with the project, just very pleased to see
       | something like this as an open source release.
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Thanks, means the world!
        
         | belalw wrote:
         | I really think that too. This space is driven by non open-
         | source labeling tools without any possibility for
         | customization. really appreciate that we see something like
         | that as an open-source project. Will definitely bring this
         | space in the right direction.
        
         | tunga_ wrote:
        
         | SiDeGraf wrote:
         | team member of kern.ai here
         | 
         | > I'm also really impressed with the architecture! Very neat.
         | 
         | thank you very much for your feedback, really appreciate it :)
         | We work hard on the architecture of the product and are
         | wrapping our heads constantly around how to make things faster,
         | more stable, and scalable, which is much fun to do for such a
         | data-intensive application. We are open to constructive
         | feedback on our tool so please feel welcome to join our
         | community on discord https://discord.gg/JzA3zDH2
        
       | anotherhue wrote:
       | I'm fond of Visidata, not an quite IDE but a good start
       | 
       | https://www.visidata.org/
        
         | jhoetter wrote:
         | Looks interesting, I'll check it out!
        
       | jhoetter wrote:
       | Hey, I'm Johannes - one of the maintainers of refinery. Thanks
       | Jonathan for sharing!!
       | 
       | Would be super excited if you guys have any feedback. It's
       | nowhere near perfect yet, but you can already use it to build
       | some great data-centric use cases. Amongst others for sentiment
       | analysis, conversational AI or finetuning of your embeddings
       | (which you can check out here: https://github.com/code-kern-
       | ai/refinery-sample-projects).
       | 
       | Let me know what you think :)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-07-18 23:01 UTC)