[HN Gopher] Being declared dead is automated, so why is resurrec...
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       Being declared dead is automated, so why is resurrection such a
       nightmare?
        
       Author : rntn
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-07-15 10:51 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | worker_person wrote:
       | India has the same issue. Apparently bribing an official is an
       | easy way to settle a dispute. Without the messiness of actually
       | killing someone.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh_Association_of_D...
        
       | GuB-42 wrote:
       | There was a story where an employee was fired by mistake. It was
       | an automatic procedure and he had all his access revoked,
       | computer and physical.
       | 
       | No one could un-fire him, the only solution was to hire him again
       | as if he was a new employee.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | The good news is that you get the new employee salary increase
         | instead of the token half-inflation-rate increase.
        
       | ncmncm wrote:
       | Cf. Doc Daneeka in Catch-22, listed (as a courtesy so he could
       | collect flight pay) on the flight manifest of a bomber that
       | crashed, and that he was not counted to have parachuted out of.
       | His persistent existence was resented by company officers, and
       | eventually his wife.
        
       | LocalH wrote:
       | A quite macabre example of "computer says no"
        
         | ncmncm wrote:
         | Nice rejoinder to the mid-20th-century assertion about runaway
         | automation that "we can always just turn it off". Not when it
         | would be against the law to turn it off.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | Love Dabbsy's stories.
       | 
       | There's a traditional way to screw over co-workers. On a day they
       | are not in the office, scrawl "DECEASED" on all their mail, and
       | drop it in the outbox. It's said to take years to undo. That long
       | predates computers.
       | 
       | The Motorhead vid was a bit sad, though. R. I. P., Lemmy.
        
         | Stratoscope wrote:
         | I think this is the first of his stories I've read, and what a
         | treat.
         | 
         | I love this part of his autobio at the end:
         | 
         | > _He still stings from having to provide proof to the French
         | authorities that he was not a bigamist prior to getting
         | married. Most countries have such a thing as a Wedding
         | Certificate but in France, there is also an official
         | Certificate of Unmarriedness, and it is a right old bugger to
         | find someone to draw one up when you're not French. In the end,
         | he persuaded a British consul to sign a letter stating that the
         | aforementioned - a person he didn't know and had never met -
         | was, as far as he could guess, probably not already married,
         | perhaps, maybe, I dunno, I hope not. The French authorities
         | accepted it without further question._
         | 
         | Back to the story, sometimes here in California we have the
         | opposite problem, where someone really is dead, deceased, an
         | ex-person, pushing up the daisies, kicked the bucket like Jimmy
         | Durante [1], but no one will let him Rest In Peace.
         | 
         | Every week or so I get a piece of mail with an offer for
         | guaranteed issue of a life insurance policy for an acquaintance
         | who died a few years ago. He never actually lived at my
         | address, but through a chain of events his forwarding address
         | was set to here.
         | 
         | Since they are so insistent, I am tempted to fill in one of
         | those applications on his behalf and see what happens. Maybe
         | they will bring him back to life? After all, they do call it
         | Life Insurance.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w00Kab17aeI
         | 
         | "Did you see it? He _(slap)_ sailed right out there! "
        
           | moistly wrote:
           | > tempted to fill in one of those applications on his
           | behalf...
           | 
           | ...and then send in his death certificate. It should be
           | amusing, provided you aren't nicked for filling in the
           | policy.
        
       | thedanbob wrote:
       | Falsehoods that programmers believe:
       | 
       | - Someone declared dead will never be declared alive again
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Joeri wrote:
         | This applies to so many systems that have irreversible status
         | transitions. I have seen this again and again over my career as
         | a developer. A foolproof system is designed and then some fool
         | of a user puts it in a different state from reality, after
         | which it requires all kinds of tricking the system to make it
         | match the observable universe.
         | 
         | By now this should be system design 101: the system should
         | always have an override to move a record from any state into
         | any other state.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | I try to design systems on an accounting principle. Every
           | persistent state change is basically a journal entry, and you
           | can always create a new entry to correct a prior entry.
        
             | moralestapia wrote:
             | This is almost always the right decision and it applies to
             | pretty much any thing that needs to record anything. It
             | also is one of the few down to earth use cases for a
             | blockchain.
        
             | Brian_K_White wrote:
             | THIS. No unaccountable editing, but always allow new
             | entries that accommodate the same needs. There is no legit
             | reason any legit error correction can't have a log that
             | shows the error and the correction. There are reasons, but
             | no legit reasons.
        
           | inglor_cz wrote:
           | I am just now programming a system where you can make a
           | temporary deactivation and a permanent deactivation of a user
           | account. And a permanent deactivation is irreversible from
           | the UI, though it can be reversed by flipping a boolean in
           | the DB proper. It is intended for situations where, e.g., the
           | employee leaves the corporation.
           | 
           | Should there be an override in the UI? Why? The way you are
           | stating it sounds like a mathematical axiom, but I would like
           | to see it treated as a theorem: with a proof, or at least a
           | powerful set of reasons.
           | 
           | I can see that a particular person may rejoin the same
           | corporation later, but IMHO they should be given a new
           | account, not just have their old account reactivated. They
           | aren't really "the same person" anymore, they might have a
           | different job description etc.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | The more curious parts of my brain are wondering whether being
       | offically declared dead and not fixing it would have any
       | advantages.
        
         | jamiek88 wrote:
         | It seems a great hack for a new life.
         | 
         | Declare _yourself_ dead and start again!
        
       | CTDOCodebases wrote:
       | The mechanics of birth/death registrations was once covered in a
       | Blackhat talk.
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/9FdHq3WfJgs
        
       | mike_hock wrote:
       | Use of an object after the destructor has been called is UB.
        
         | zen_1 wrote:
         | Time to introduce governments to placement new.
        
       | drdaeman wrote:
       | Well, people die all the time, so the process of registering such
       | events is well known - it had to be repeated millions of times,
       | and thus is typically well implemented and optimized.
       | 
       | But people are falsely declared dead, or get revived after being
       | declared dead quite infrequently, and that's why this process is
       | typically not automated and sometimes even entirely missed.
        
         | closeparen wrote:
         | Dead people's identities are also great targets for e.g. spies,
         | illegal immigrants, and money launderers, so governments have a
         | strong interest in making sure the identities of the deceased
         | get turned off promptly and thoroughly.
        
       | asr21 wrote:
       | The People need to use tombstone logic with a field as
       | markAsDead.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-15 23:01 UTC)