[HN Gopher] Brazil's answer to the Sichuan pepper
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Brazil's answer to the Sichuan pepper
        
       Author : Stratoscope
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2022-07-15 06:51 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | zzbzq wrote:
       | Anybody tasted it? Sichuan pepper doesn't just give a tingling
       | feeling, it also tastes really good. Curious if this does, too.
        
         | showerst wrote:
         | These don't taste great on their own (kinda grassy) but they
         | give a more intense pins & needles feeling.
         | 
         | They're much stronger than any sane amount of Sichuan pepper --
         | but shorter lasting, and they change food's flavor in a
         | slightly different way. I can't quite describe how, as I've
         | only had them with a specific cocktail at Mcclellans Retreat in
         | DC.
         | 
         | I'd recommend it if you're ever nearby, cool drink and it's
         | also a great neighborhood cocktail bar.
        
         | wawjgreen wrote:
         | Yes it can be ground into a powder and you can cook it
         | alongside any meat dish--it gives the dish a nice, underground-
         | ish taste.
        
       | TheCowboy wrote:
       | If people are interested in trying something different, they also
       | mention cachaca. Sometimes called "Brazilian rum" which is a bit
       | inaccurate. It's getting easier to find, but it's still best to
       | avoid the cheap versions (such as the 51 brand which is
       | terrible). Look for restaurants serving a cocktail called a
       | caipirinha, which is the national drink of Brazil, as the best
       | intro.
        
       | dedemenezes wrote:
        
       | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
       | Visiting the deep amazon during COVID, I literally ate too much
       | stuff (one of those nice, AYCA amazon lodges). Every date, I
       | mixed all kinds of delicious things in a buffett setting, and
       | constantly loaded with carbs. It was vacation, after all.
       | 
       | I normally do intermittent fasting and stay away from carbs
       | during the work week. I don't do buffet and usually don't have 2
       | daily meals, let alone 3.
       | 
       | So, after 2-3 days of repeating the feast -3 times a day-, my
       | stomach and intestines finally went on strike. I ended up with a
       | strong reaction with a loose stool. 2 days later, it would still
       | not go away. It was constant. I was chained to the bathroom. The
       | rest of the family didn't overeat + mix everything, so naturally
       | they were totally fine.
       | 
       | Finally on the 3rd day, I gave up on waiting it out and asked for
       | help from our jungle guide.
       | 
       | He told me to have oregano tea, so had 2 cups. The change was
       | instantaneous. Just like the article, all the locals from the
       | amazon knew this was the standard remedy for diarrhea.
       | 
       | I googled this afterwards. None of the top hits for home remedy
       | for diarrhea even mentioned oregano tea once in their articles. A
       | medical dietitian had a 1 word link back to diarrhea in a
       | "oregano health benefits" article [1].
       | 
       | Its crazy how ignorant we are of natural methods, and makes me
       | wonder what other wonderful natural medicines are waiting to be
       | re-discovered in the amazon.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/266259
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | It's amazing how little we know about the benefits of plants
         | that cannot be easily monopolized.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | Do you have a recipe for that oregano tea?
        
           | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
           | its simpler than you think.
           | 
           | Fill a 1/3 cup with oregano leaves. Dump hot water. That's
           | all it takes.
           | 
           | I had 2 cups! (i was desperate lol)
        
             | silicon2401 wrote:
             | Thanks, just wasn't sure how much oregano should be in
             | there. Glad it worked for you lol, in those circumstances
             | any relief is a real godsend
        
         | marcodiego wrote:
         | I'm Brazillian and lived in Rondonia, extreme west of the
         | Amazon. Never heard about oregano tea being good for the
         | intestines, will try it if I ever need again.
         | 
         | Now, don't put so much trust on the "knowledge of the natives".
         | That knowledge is not maintained by centuries because native
         | indians didn't develop writing, so recipes vary a lot even from
         | one city to another; there are different fruits or plants which
         | have the same name in different regions and the same fruit or
         | plant may have different names in different regions. It is also
         | not tested with a large genetic pool since these groups are
         | very small, familiar with little genetic diversity.
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | Where did you go in the Amazon and how did you get there? I was
         | surprised to learn that not many Brazilians have ever been to
         | the Amazon. But it makes sense once you realize that it's hard
         | to get there and it takes a long time.
        
           | d0100 wrote:
           | There isn't much to do there if you aren't a fan of raw
           | wilderness and extreme heat
           | 
           | Brazil has too many nice vacation places and the Amazon isn't
           | it
        
             | marcodiego wrote:
             | > There isn't much to do there if you aren't a fan of raw
             | wilderness and extreme heat
             | 
             | Mostly this. If you want to see exotic animals, you'll be
             | probably more comfortable on a Zoo. Favorite touristic
             | points of Brazil seems to be northeast beach or coldest
             | parts of the south. I was in vacation in Florianopolis, a
             | capital city in the south, in 2019 and every time I said I
             | was from the northeast they asked me: "and why are you
             | wasting your vacation here?"
        
             | Sporktacular wrote:
             | I imagine it would be interesting to learn about and get to
             | know some of the tribal people.
        
           | SPascareli13 wrote:
           | I came from Amazonas, a Brazilian state which contains most
           | of the Brazilian Amazon. And yes not many Brazilians know the
           | Amazon, most probably live as far from the Amazon as US is
           | (Brazil is really big!).
        
             | InitialLastName wrote:
             | It's wild how close this is to true, but by my measurement
             | the shortest distance between the US mainland (so not
             | counting Puerto Rico) and the nearest point I can see in
             | the Amazon [white outline in 0, for lack of a better
             | reference] is ~1,650 miles, and there is nowhere in Brazil
             | that is more than 1600 miles.
             | 
             | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_rainforest#/media/F
             | ile:...
        
           | IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
           | I was in Ecuador, actually.
           | 
           | You can get to the Amazon from Quito with a 5 hour drive that
           | is very pleasant. Then the road ends and you take a boat that
           | can be anything from 30mins to several hours, depending how
           | deep into the jungle you are going.
           | 
           | Once there, there's tons to do. Floating in an amazon
           | tributary river -with no sound other than the occasional
           | bird- and closing my eyes was one of the most incredible zen
           | moments in my life. Could have stayed hours. That week went
           | by too fast.
           | 
           | Regarding your brazil experience - doesn't seem uncommon.
           | I've asked Peruvians, Ecuadoreans, Brazilians etc if they
           | have gone to the Amazon. The answer is no.
           | 
           | Its not dissimilar to the experience you would get in the US
           | if you asked someone if they have been to Mt Rushmore,
           | Florida Keys, Grand Canyon, or even Yellowstone. Its far, and
           | mostly out of reach for most americans (and we are far
           | wealthier than our southern neighbors).
           | 
           | Also, I get a sense that touristic developments deep in South
           | America wilderness tend to cater to foreign tourists. Such
           | prices may be out of reach for most upper class locals. This
           | is different from most US landmarks, which seem to cater
           | primarily to middle class Americans (anecdata).
        
           | Qem wrote:
           | Visiting the Amazon is a 2000-3000 km trip from most large
           | cities in the country, fuel prices and plane tickets are
           | awfully expensive right now, and for most history, so it's a
           | trip that would cost multiple times the minimum wage in
           | Brazil. So it's not that surprising most people in the
           | country din't ever visit there, unless they were already born
           | close to it. Also, the most easily reachable parts are
           | already very degraded. Roads spell doom to the forest.
           | Pristine forest is far from the areas with affordable
           | amenities that would please most tourists. In the brief time
           | period air travel became more affordable, in the Lula-Dilma
           | government terms, most people that could travel skipped
           | domestic tourism and went straight into international travel,
           | as from large cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro a
           | plane ticket to Argentina, Chile, or even Europe used to be
           | very often cheaper than a ticket to, say, Manaus.
        
             | dlisboa wrote:
             | > Also, the most easily reachable parts are already very
             | degraded. Roads spell doom to the forest. Pristine forest
             | is far from the areas with affordable amenities that would
             | please most tourists.
             | 
             | That's not really correct in my experience. You can find
             | "deep wilderness" in about 30-40 minutes from the city of
             | Manaus (by boat), as in places with no human activity at
             | all. And Manaus is very reachable (actually what people
             | consider "the Amazon").
             | 
             | The city doesn't sprawl too far, and you have deforestation
             | along the roads, but it's quite impressive how the "deep"
             | jungle starts just after the last man-made structure. There
             | are more areas of uninterrupted forest than in any other
             | region probably in the world. And I visited in 2020, not
             | really long ago.
             | 
             | I'm Brazilian and I didn't really expect that, knowing our
             | bad track record of deforestation. I thought the "real"
             | jungle would be much further away. Coming from the
             | Southeast of Brazil I can see the difference, and I'd call
             | forests in this region definitely degraded. But up there
             | it's as close to pristine as it gets with human
             | involvement. The tragedy is that it's not for long.
        
         | jcmoscon wrote:
         | Read about Copaiba oil. It's a Brazilian oil from a tree. This
         | thing is amazing. I used to always have earache after a couple
         | of days diving in the ocean until I used one little drop of
         | Copaiba oil in my ears. No more earache. Never again! It has
         | multiple uses. Take a look at it.
        
       | mmanfrin wrote:
       | This title is a little weird considering that these are sometimes
       | called sichuan buttons:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acmella_oleracea
        
       | tambourine_man wrote:
       | You might want to listen to this song while you taste it. Its
       | lyrics are a homage to Jambu:
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ETqUAfnN47M
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | Liniker also has a reference to jambu but it's only a passing
         | reference and not the main theme:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bVTGFkayqw
        
           | tambourine_man wrote:
           | Nice to see Liniker being recognized outside of Brazil
        
             | Kaze404 wrote:
             | I saw her live a few weeks ago on her latest tour and
             | wow... Her performance is absolutely breathtaking. To any
             | bystander reading this, if you ever have the opportunity
             | it's a must.
        
       | Nihilartikel wrote:
       | I was a bit obsessed with Sichuan peppercorns a few years back..
       | 
       | If one wants to have a good introduction to them, Huang Fei Hong
       | Spicy Peanuts are on Amazon and many asian grocers.. they
       | consistently have fresh and numbing pods mixed in.
       | 
       | I've never got good numbing Sichuan peppercorns retail in the US,
       | but have gotten some really strong ones off of Amazon.
        
       | ryangittins wrote:
       | I once had these in a speakeasy in downtown Louisville, KY with a
       | cocktail called "Acid Cat Spirit Guide." We ordered a round of
       | them and all the guy said was, "eat the flower and drink the
       | drink."
       | 
       | It was a pretty fun experience! The flower itself does not taste
       | good--very grassy with an unpleasant texture--but the numbing
       | effect was really fun, especially experienced as group.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acmella_oleracea
        
         | showerst wrote:
         | Mcclellans Retreat in DC also does a cocktail with them. Cool
         | to see that's a trend.
        
       | kolencherry wrote:
       | Ah! Acmella oleracea -- also known as a Szechuan Button.
       | Chandelier Bar at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas famously does an
       | off-menu cocktail with Jambu called The Verbena.
        
       | twalla wrote:
       | Minor nit: Sichuan pepper is not a chili pepper or closely
       | related to black pepper. It's the husk of the fruit of a tree
       | that grows in the region. It's not particularly spicy on its own
       | - the appeal is the numbing, tingling sensation (called mala,
       | literally numbing spiciness) which serves as a complement to the
       | capsaicin-based spiciness that Sichuanese cuisine is known for.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | Thanks for explaining that. I always wondered how sichuan
         | pepper could cause such a different reaction to regular black
         | or chili pepper, and now it makes sense
        
         | lofatdairy wrote:
         | Even more minor nit: ma2la4 is actually the combination of
         | flavors of both numbness (ma2, Ma ) and spiciness (la4, La ).
         | The latter is commonly used outside the combined descriptor to
         | signify normal capsaicin spice in food.
         | 
         | Off topic, but the "ma" in mapo tofu also uses same character
         | from ma2la4, but also serves to give a visual description of
         | the dish. That character is also used to refer to a pockmarked
         | person, and the po2 is from one of the various ways to refer to
         | grandmother. You could probably go as far to say it's something
         | of a pun.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > spiciness (la4, La ). The latter is commonly used outside
           | the combined descriptor to signify normal capsaicin spice in
           | food.
           | 
           | True, but it isn't restricted to that; it also describes the
           | taste of garlic.
           | 
           | (Whereas in English, I would never describe garlic or onions
           | as "hot". If I needed a descriptor, I'd call them "sharp".)
        
             | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
             | Garlic has a different chemical in it (allicin), but it
             | hits the same receptors as capsaicin. If you've ever tasted
             | a chimichurri with a ton of raw garlic before it's had a
             | chance to mellow out in the oil, you'll attest that garlic
             | can indeed be spicy.
             | 
             | Here are the main chemicals that are usually described as
             | spicy - they all use the same mechanism to create a "heat"
             | sensation, with the exception of the Sichuan peppercorns:
             | 
             | - Chile Peppers: Capsaicin
             | 
             | - Onions/Garlic: Allicin and Pyruvic Acid
             | 
             | - Ginger: Gingerol
             | 
             | - Black Pepper: Piperine
             | 
             | - Mustard/Horseradish/Wasabi: Allyl Isothiocyanate
             | 
             | - Sichuan Peppercorn: Hydroxy-Alpha-Sanshool
             | 
             | [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna8963709
        
               | Zababa wrote:
               | That's interesting, I wouldn't describe mustard as spicy.
               | Mustard is shorter and more intense than capsaicin.
        
               | whoisburbansky wrote:
               | What about wasabi or horseradish?
        
             | kaycebasques wrote:
             | > I would never describe garlic or onions as "hot"
             | 
             | Eat a raw garlic clove and then get back to me on that!
        
               | fein wrote:
               | It's the same in German. Hot mustard is "scharf" meaning
               | sharp, but in the USA you would buy "spicy" brown
               | mustard. Horseradish is sharp. Habaneros are hot/spicy. I
               | agree that a raw garlic clove or the right raw onion can
               | be "spicy", but they dont have a heat profile like
               | something loaded with capsaicin.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | I've done it many times. Is one more going to be
               | different somehow?
        
             | paraph1n wrote:
             | Actually it's quite normal in American English to describe
             | garlic as hot or spicy, especially raw garlic.
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | Maybe somewhere, but it's not a usage I've encountered.
               | Chilis are described as hot; garlic is usually just
               | described as "garlic".
        
               | paraph1n wrote:
               | Have you tried chewing on a fresh raw clove of garlic?
               | You may find yourself using different words :)
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > Have you tried chewing on a fresh raw clove of garlic?
               | 
               | Come on. You could at least read my comments before
               | responding to them.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32111461
               | 
               | You really think "sharp" is a bad descriptor for raw
               | garlic?
        
           | angrais wrote:
           | Any reason why your Pinyin is written in ASCII and not
           | unicode (as OP)?
        
             | lofatdairy wrote:
             | Honestly I could've just copied and pasted it but I'm used
             | to just typing the numbers since I didn't learn the alt
             | keybindings on my keyboard.
        
         | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
         | Is the numbing sensation similar to that of cloves?
        
           | ch4s3 wrote:
           | Sort of, but not exactly. Cloves contain eugenol which can
           | act as a mild anesthetic. Sichuan peppers contain hydroxy-
           | alpha-sanshool another organic alcohol that is pretty
           | different chemically, I think.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | No it's more slightly numbing with some kind of electricity
           | or bubbly (Effervescent) feeling.
        
           | tintedfireglass wrote:
           | cloves are sweet right? cloves have a pleasant taste and they
           | don't taste "spicy" at all. I occasionally chew some cloves
           | as a mouth freshener and I don't feel any overwhelming spicy-
           | ness like black pepper or chilli pepper
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | Sichuan peppers are also not spicy at all. They have an
             | intense herbal/mineral/fruity flavor that's hard to find
             | comparisons for but it is nothing like the "heat" you get
             | from any other foods considered hot like chili pepper,
             | black pepper, ginger, raw garlic, etc.
        
               | loeg wrote:
               | To be clear, black pepper, chilis, and szechuan peppers
               | are all distinct and unrelated plants.
        
               | mcguire wrote:
               | And cloves. :-)
        
       | hvs wrote:
       | I only recently became aware of the Sichuan "pepper" or at least
       | its effects. Maybe I had somehow managed to never get it in large
       | enough quantities to notice (I have certainly eaten
       | Sichuan/Szechuan food many times in my life), but a recent
       | experience with a a Sichuan dish that had a lot of Sichuan oil in
       | it gave me the full mouth-numbing experience. I have to say I
       | have been hooked ever since.
        
         | BashiBazouk wrote:
         | For decades Sichuan pepper was loosely banned then required to
         | be heated to import in to the US (and likely other countries)
         | because of a fear of citrus canker and the heat killed the
         | numbing chemical. That has changed but you still need properly
         | prepared and relatively fresh husks to get the effect. I've
         | eaten Sichuan food my entire life but never had anything
         | numbing until I went to China.
        
           | hvs wrote:
           | I've since bought Sichuan peppercorns from a local Asian
           | grocery store and made my own oil and have gotten a good
           | effect.
        
           | jayceedenton wrote:
           | > you still need properly prepared and relatively fresh husks
           | to get the effect
           | 
           | In the UK here. I've found that any old bag of dried, ground,
           | Sichuan pepper, or dried Sichuan pepper corns that you grind
           | yourself, will cause the effect. No need for 'proper
           | preparation' or freshness, just sprinkle Sichuan pepper on
           | the food.
           | 
           | The pepper is greenish in colour. Just add liberally and
           | you'll get the numbness.
        
             | nemetroid wrote:
             | I recently opened a bag of Sichuan pepper bought from a
             | street vendor in Sichuan fifteen years ago. Still highly
             | potent, more so than the stuff carried by local import
             | stores.
        
             | dumb1224 wrote:
             | We don't usually eat them raw as it is just like
             | peppercorns. The common treatment is to pour heated oil (a
             | higher smoking one) over it to excite its flavour. Still
             | numbing though if you happen to chew one.
        
             | BashiBazouk wrote:
             | I bought a jar from my local high end gourmet market and
             | got nothing from them. Then bought some off Penzeys and not
             | only do I get the numbing effect but the husks have an
             | intense fruity flavor that is not present in the other
             | brand.
        
               | alisonatwork wrote:
               | There are two different kinds - red and green. The red
               | ones are the ones you usually find in dried format, and
               | imo they aren't very numbing unless you really crush up a
               | lot of them. The green ones tend to have more fruitiness
               | and numbing power, especially if you can get them fresh.
               | Otherwise it's probably easier to just buy the pre-
               | seasoned oil.
        
               | resoluteteeth wrote:
               | > There are two different kinds - red and green. The red
               | ones are the ones you usually find in dried format, and
               | imo they aren't very numbing unless you really crush up a
               | lot of them. The green ones tend to have more fruitiness
               | and numbing power, especially if you can get them fresh.
               | Otherwise it's probably easier to just buy the pre-
               | seasoned oil.
               | 
               | The red ones are the ones that are normally used in
               | Sichuan cooking and they are plenty numbing.
               | 
               | The green ones (from a slightly different species) are
               | more common in Japanese cooking
               | 
               | You don't really want to substitute them for each other.
        
               | alisonatwork wrote:
               | I don't know enough about Japanese cooking to comment
               | extensively on that, but I do know that there is an
               | ingredient called sansho that looks similar to green
               | Sichuan peppers. That is not the ingredient I am talking
               | about.
               | 
               | From my observations living in China, shopping at wet
               | markets and eating in restaurants, green Sichuan pepper
               | is quite commonly used. Both red and green variants are
               | sold in dry format, but the red ones are the ones you
               | will find more often pre-packaged in supermarkets. They
               | do both work to create a numbing sensation, but in my
               | opinion, the green ones get you more bang for your buck.
        
               | resoluteteeth wrote:
               | It seems like you're right and they're different; there
               | are apparently a whole bunch of different species.
               | 
               | Sansho is Zanthoxylum piperitum and green sichuan pepper
               | apparently may be Zanthoxylum armatum, so red sichuan
               | pepper, green sichuan pepper, and sansho may all be
               | different species.
               | 
               | There is also Zanthoxylum schinifolium which is
               | apparently used in Korean "Sancho".
        
         | spaceman_2020 wrote:
         | its so good, isn't it? Sichuan chili oil has become my favorite
         | condiment. I make it at home in batches and add it to
         | practically everything.
         | 
         | Incredible how good just rice, a dash of light soy sauce, an
         | egg, and a good helping of chili oil can taste.
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | Do you make it yourself? What kind of oil do you use? Do you
           | have a link to a recipe? I want to try it! Sounds yummy
        
             | spaceman_2020 wrote:
             | I've modified it slightly over time, but the base is pretty
             | much this recipe:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrXPNq3QdfY
        
               | leobg wrote:
               | Lovely. Thank you! Any modifications you can recommend?
        
         | Stevvo wrote:
         | Your use of of the Wade-Giles "Szechuan" is telling; when
         | written as such it refers to subclass of Chinese-American food
         | catered to American tastes. It's great food in its own right,
         | but not what its name suggests.
         | 
         | In Sichuan they put this stuff in _everything_. Start off with
         | a breakfast of Numbing  & Spicy beef noodle soup. Mid morning a
         | snack of cold rice noodles with lajao & haujao paste on it.
         | ChuanChuan for lunch, Hot Pot for dinner and finish it off with
         | a spicy BBQ in the evening.
        
       | giraffe_lady wrote:
       | There's also a prickly ash native (I think) to the american
       | midwest. It must be pretty closely related to the sichuan one
       | because the husks look very similar and have the same tingly
       | property, though the other flavors are muted in comparison. It's
       | equivalent to mediocre quality imported sichuan pepper.
       | 
       | I used to forage it back when we could only get the really shitty
       | stuff in the states, though I haven't gone looking for it for
       | years now since we can get the high quality easily these days.
        
       | Sporktacular wrote:
       | It was exported to the Indian Ocean in colonial times too. It's
       | known as Anamalo in some Creole languages.
        
       | kaycebasques wrote:
       | Jambu!! My wife and I are obsessed with this stuff, hah. We went
       | to north Brazil (near Fortaleza) to spend time with her family.
       | Her stepdad kept trying to find cachaca (pronounced "cashasa")
       | infused jambu for me to try. No luck. Even in Brazil jambu is not
       | that well known and is hard to find. It's easier to get in the
       | north (closer to where it grows supposedly). We've been doing a
       | running poll where we ask all her Brazilian friends, family, etc
       | if they've tried jambu and most have never heard of it. Back to
       | our time in north Brazil: eventually we're at a wonderful gourmet
       | restaurant and we ask if they have any jambu and the waiter goes
       | to the kitchen and comes back with the chef. Not only did they
       | have a quality cachaca with jambu for us to try but the chef also
       | prepared a jambu flower with some kind of oil. My whole mouth got
       | numb. Also if you find yourself quite drunk the first time you
       | try cachaca with jambu (like I was) take care to only have a
       | little sip because a big one could make you throw up. Side note
       | Brazilians call the "pins and needles" sensation of having a leg
       | fall asleep "formigando" which comes from their word for ants
       | ("formiga"). In other words instead of "pins and needles" they
       | think of it as ants crawling on your leg. Anywho jambu is
       | definitely an experience and Brazil is a very cool place. Also
       | you can gain brownie points with Brasilians by spelling Brasil
       | with an "s" ;D
        
         | marcodiego wrote:
         | I'm from Fortaleza and never heard about Jambu before. I
         | actually thought it was Jambo misspelled.
         | 
         | Everything you said about Brazil seems true to me. And for
         | anyone thinking about visiting us: people from here a very
         | receptive, especially with curious and respectful tourists.
        
         | jlg23 wrote:
         | No problems finding it in Belem 6 years ago. +1 on the "a
         | little sip" - but I think that's true for any alcoholic
         | beverage one drinks for yet another effect than the ones
         | induced by alcohol (e.g. Absinthe).
        
         | muaytimbo wrote:
         | Probably more widely available in Manaus than Fortaleza.
        
         | alecst wrote:
         | Love that tidbit about formiga. Same in Italian: formica (ant)
         | and formicolare ("to ant" or "to tingle").
        
           | kaycebasques wrote:
           | Yet another tidbit: your use of "tidbit" here is very
           | appropriate given its etymology and the fact that we're
           | talking about food! https://www.etymonline.com/word/tidbit
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | Oh hell, cachaca in general is such a strong liquor. I remember
         | when I was in Brasil last I went to a restaurant where they had
         | a bottle sitting in the front with little cups just to pour
         | yourself a shot if you wanted one, almost like where you'd find
         | free mints and toothpicks in many other countries. It took me
         | by surprise that they'd have such a strong liquor sitting in
         | the front of a place to drink for free after lunch like that,
         | but when in Brasil... Would love to try some with jambu in it.
         | Reminds me a little bit of salmiakki koskenkorva out of Finland
         | [1], which is salty licorice vodka, salted with ammonium
         | chloride, not NaCl, which definitely has a bit of a weird
         | effect on your mouth.
         | 
         | Amazing cuisine in that country and the people are incredibly
         | nice and friendly. Would love to return some day again.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki_Koskenkorva
        
           | happyopossum wrote:
           | > Oh hell, cachaca in general is such a strong liquor
           | 
           | In my experience it runs from ~80 to <120 proof (and most
           | commonly ~80), which is in the same range as rum and bourbon,
           | unless you're in a state/country with some crazy restrictions
           | I guess?
           | 
           | Everclear and Bacardi 151 are waaaay stronger than any
           | cachaca I've ever seen.
        
         | O__________O wrote:
         | Jambu (Acmella oleracea) is native to southeast Brazil:
         | 
         | https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:9...
         | 
         | Also known as: Electric Daisy, Paracress, Eyeball Plant,
         | Toothache Plant, Jambu, Brazilian Cress, Sichuan Buttons, Buzz
         | Buttons, Tingflowers, Novacaine Plant, Phak Khraat Hua Van,
         | Brede Mafane, Agriao Do Para, Peek-a-boo, Spilanthes acmella
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acmella_oleracea
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | Well, Fortaleza is on the North-East, not North.
         | 
         | As you said, you will only find jambu on the North. I have no
         | idea why people don't ship it around.
        
         | Kaze404 wrote:
         | Not sure if you're still taking responses to that poll, but
         | I've personally tried jambu in uh... _other_ contexts. It's
         | great :)
        
         | eliseumds wrote:
         | I did a road trip from the extreme south to Sao Paulo (1500km+)
         | last month and found jambu-infused cachaca in the four
         | different states I've been to. Def a recent thing though. I
         | even saw jambu risotto and pastel (stuffed fried crust pie).
        
           | soneca wrote:
           | So a recent thing indeed. Living in Sao Paulo I never heard
           | of jambu (I also do not drink alcohol, and apparently it is
           | more interesting to consume with alcohol, so it might
           | explain).
        
             | jeanlucas wrote:
             | Sao Paulo resident here as well... You may find it in
             | several restaurants around Paulista avenue.
        
             | eliseumds wrote:
             | I've had jambu in Sao Paulo many times, although I admit
             | that I visit the city multiple times a year just to eat.
             | It's easy to find tacaca, pirarucu, chicken/duck with
             | tucupi and so on.
        
               | soneca wrote:
               | I would imagine so. There is a lot of good things in SP,
               | probably never heard of a lot of them.
        
           | pvorb wrote:
           | First time I've heard of pastel outside of my mother's
           | family. I thought it's a very local thing.
           | 
           | My mother is from Santa Catarina, but I grew up in south west
           | Germany.
        
         | Zababa wrote:
         | > In other words instead of "pins and needles" they think of it
         | as ants crawling on your leg.
         | 
         | It's the same thing in French, we say "J'ai des fourmis dans
         | les jambes" ("I have ants in my legs").
        
       | ConfusedDog wrote:
       | I was wondering about what Sichuan Pepper is. It's Huajiao. Yeah.
       | I loved the numbing effect along with other actual hot peppers
       | for hot pot. My Chinese ex, however, loved it so much literally
       | got stomach ulcer and later also had Cholangitis and had to have
       | surgery. It's a lot of pain, so please do not over indulge.
        
         | firekvz wrote:
         | Im sorry for laughing at your comment, it was fun to read and
         | now Im wondering how much does it affect on general population,
         | surely chinese population must have a huge % of people with
         | ulcers at the very least
        
           | wawjgreen wrote:
           | They do as far as my observation can be a valid evidence. A
           | decade ago when I went to a hospital in China, the line to
           | the ailments of the stomach and intestine was the longest,
           | and this was true in several hospital across different
           | provinces.
        
       | mytailorisrich wrote:
       | I wouldn't call Sichuan pepper a stipple of Chinese cuisine. Its
       | use is very regional.
        
         | bpodgursky wrote:
         | True, but I'd say it's a staple of international/exported
         | Chinese cuisine.
        
           | lofatdairy wrote:
           | Honestly, I wish it was more of a staple if anything. It's
           | surprisingly hard to find really good Sichuanese food. I've
           | had mapo tofu that ends up tasting more like a poorly done
           | Hunan dish because of an unpleasant sourness and thickened
           | sauce, even in restaurants that claim to be Sichuanese.
           | 
           | By far though, one of the best Sichaunese dishes which is
           | unfortunately (and surprisingly) overlooked is their
           | whitefish. If you know you know.
        
             | bathMarm0t wrote:
             | Tei Feng. The best. Milwaukee does it proper. Szechuan
             | Restaurant on National.
        
         | tlss wrote:
         | Whole Sichuan peppercorns are most prominently used in Sichuan
         | cooking where they can be the star of a dish (e.g. mapo tofu).
         | However, the powder form is a central ingredient in the so-
         | called "Five Spices" mix:
         | 
         | - star anise - fennel - cinnamon - clove - sichuan peppercorns
         | 
         | This "five spices" powder is used very often in Northern
         | Chinese cooking as a meat or tofu rub.
         | 
         | In addition, sichuan peppercorns are often used in lushui in
         | the south:
         | 
         | https://soupeduprecipes.com/chinese-master-brine-recipe/
         | 
         | and also it can be found in a lot of braising recipes.
        
         | tamade wrote:
         | Dried peppercorns are found in most Chinese kitchens. It's not
         | used in every dish, but it's certainly a staple in any Chinese
         | pantry. The related Sansho peppercorn is used like black pepper
         | in Japanese cooking.
        
           | mytailorisrich wrote:
           | Looks like we're quickly going into semantics but I maintain
           | that it isn't "a staple" of Chinese cuisine in general. It's
           | very regional and many regions will not notice a shortage of
           | them.
           | 
           | Bread is a staple of French (and European) cuisine, cayenne
           | pepper is found is found in most kitchens but isn't.
        
           | angrais wrote:
           | Dried peppercorns are not necessarily Sichuan peppers, which
           | are distinctly used in Sichuan cuisine. So while it may be a
           | staple in Chinese pantry (and mine too) it is certainly tied
           | to specific cuisine.
        
       | wil421 wrote:
       | I grow these and you can find them on rareseeds.com known as
       | toothache plant. They are also know a Sichuan Buttons. It's fun
       | giving them to guests. This year some bugs got to them but I
       | think they will recover. I wanted to make a cocktail with them.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | any tips on creating cocktail recipes, or good cocktails to
         | make at a party? I want to learn to make fun cocktails now that
         | the standard starting price of a cocktail in the DC area is
         | $12-15 (way too expensive for my taste) but don't know how to
         | start. Buying liquor is easy because it can be used in
         | different cocktails, but I want to avoid spending a lot for
         | some ingredient that only works in a single recipe
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | To learn, I'd suggest:
           | 
           | 1. Buy a cocktail book. I got one ages ago, so I'm not sure
           | what I'd recommend today.
           | 
           | 2. Pick one cocktail that you like and get the ingredients
           | for it. Master it.
           | 
           | 3. Slowly branch out to nearby cocktails that only vary by an
           | ingredient or two.
           | 
           | 4. Keep exploring that way.
           | 
           | Like other culinary stuff, cocktails tend to be organized
           | into a large web of related drinks. So once you pick a
           | starting point, you can just incrementally explore the graph
           | without having to buy a pile of ingredients.
           | 
           | Eventually you _will_ amass a pile of ingredients. But,
           | fortunately, most last a very long time.
           | 
           | As far as a party goes, it depends a lot on your guests. In
           | particular, their age. Cocktails go through fashion cycles
           | like everything else and younger guests are more dialed in to
           | those so will probably prefer whatever cocktails are big
           | right now. I'm too old to know what that is but I know mules
           | got super popular for a while.
           | 
           | Older guests will generally have a standby or two that they
           | know they like.
           | 
           | If you just want to ensure everyone has a good time, I'd get
           | sufficient beer and wine and then pick a popular cocktail or
           | two. Anyone who doesn't like those particular cocktails can
           | simply default to beer or wine.
           | 
           | If you want to have a "cocktail party" where everyone is
           | encouraged to focus on those, then good coverage would be:
           | 
           | 1. Something sweet and fruity for those who don't like a
           | strong liquor taste. Cosmopolitans are good for this.
           | Tropical drinks like mai tais can be good too, though rum
           | might be too strong for some.
           | 
           | 2. Something long for people who want a lighter, larger
           | drink. "Long" means mixed with a carbonated beverage. This
           | could be as simple as a Jack and coke or fancier like a Tom
           | Collins. Gin and tonics are great.
           | 
           | 3. Something whiskey-based. People who like whiskey really
           | like whiskey. Old fashioneds work well or manhattans if
           | you're a little more adventurous.
           | 
           | Talking to bartenders when you're at a bar is always great
           | way to learn more. Just try not to bug them if they're
           | clearly busy attending to patrons.
        
             | silicon2401 wrote:
             | Your steps make sense so I'll give that a try.
             | 
             | > once you pick a starting point, you can just
             | incrementally explore the graph without having to buy a
             | pile of ingredients.
             | 
             | That's exactly what I was picturing so thanks for the tips.
             | Especially your intro steps and the coverage points. I
             | specifically want to be able to make cocktails for friends
             | at regular hangouts or as a fun activity at get-
             | togethers/parties, so having good coverage is an especially
             | important goal for me. I feel motivated to give it a shot
             | now; I think I'll try Death & Co since a past coworker got
             | into that, or just look around and see what's popular these
             | days.
             | 
             | One more follow-up question, after getting some experience
             | with cocktails, have you been able to replicate cocktails
             | you try at bars? That's another skill I'd enjoy having
             | because I really enjoy most craft cocktails at bars, but I
             | draw complete blanks when I try making my own recipes at
             | home (unsurprising since I haven't really gotten into the
             | craft), so I'd love to be able to replicate ones I try
        
               | bcbrown wrote:
               | It hasn't been updated in a while, but www.drinkboy.com
               | is a nice site for learning cocktail recipes. The author
               | also has a series of videos demonstrating how to mix
               | various cocktails on YouTube:
               | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL87FA3F25BCD5B827
        
               | munificent wrote:
               | I haven't been as into cocktails as I used to be (having
               | kids and getting older curtailed it), so it's been a long
               | time since I've tried to replicate the cocktail
               | experience I've had at bars.
               | 
               | I don't know if I ever tried to directly replicate
               | cocktails that I've had in bars. I mostly just focused on
               | picking recipes and then iterating on them until I got
               | them dialed in. It's a fun place to just explore.
               | 
               | What I did learn, though, is that almost all of the craft
               | cocktails I see on menus are really just variations on a
               | few basic classic cocktails. They'll give it a fancy name
               | and tweak a few secondary ingredients, but in general, if
               | it's got whiskey, it's often a variation on an old
               | fashioned or Manhattan. (City names are a clue for the
               | latter.) If it has simple syrup and citrus, it's in the
               | ballpark of a sour.
        
               | alisonatwork wrote:
               | I highly recommend the book Joy of Mixology by Gary
               | Regan. It categorizes cocktails into logical groupings
               | that explain how to methodically substitute an ingredient
               | to adjust the flavor without creating an imbalanced
               | drink. Most unique cocktails you find at bars are twists
               | on existing themes, so once you grok those fundamentals
               | it becomes easier to recognize what was tweaked.
        
         | kaycebasques wrote:
         | Great tip, thank you. Would love to grow some. Any lessons
         | learned regarding how to care for them / things to avoid?
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | Don't overcrowd them and watch out for insects. They don't
           | seem to mind the heat once established. I started them inside
           | and I should've used a larger container. They overgrew the
           | seed start containers fast.
        
       | joking wrote:
       | Nice, now I have the urgent need to go to one of the true Chinese
       | restaurants that I know, the sichuan style beef maybe is not the
       | same that you are going to find in china, but it's really
       | different enough from the rest of Chinese restaurants that I know
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | Does it have the same perceived 50 hertz frequency as Sichuan
       | pepper? https://www.science.org/content/article/tuning-buzz-
       | peppers
        
       | twostorytower wrote:
       | Does anyone know where we could order jambu (for cooking with) in
       | the US?
        
         | cwkoss wrote:
         | I'm also interested!
        
         | safeimp wrote:
         | I found a site that lists them but they're too expensive/in too
         | large of quantity for something I'm only interested in
         | sampling: https://www.marxfoods.com/Sechuan-Buttons-Buzz-Button
         | 
         | If anybody has a source I'd be curious.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-15 23:01 UTC)