[HN Gopher] ChromeOS Flex is now ready to scale to PCs and Macs
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       ChromeOS Flex is now ready to scale to PCs and Macs
        
       Author : binkHN
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2022-07-14 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cloud.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cloud.google.com)
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | This is supposedly Desktop Linux's 'finest' example of being the
       | 0.1% out of the 99.9% of other free and open-source Linux distros
       | that have failed to become useful or mainstream enough at a large
       | scale and to be used by everyday users to just get things done.
       | 
       | ChromeOS seems to be _the only_ example close to this, but it
       | sadly succeeds more in surveillance of its users with its mostly
       | closed system, which goes against the point of choosing Linux in
       | the first place. In a couple of years time, ChromeOS will be just
       | replaced with Fuchsia underneath and the best part is the users
       | won 't care and will not even know it.
       | 
       | Which means Desktop Linux is once again, back to square one.
        
         | jchw wrote:
         | Open source isn't a competition or a race. This has no
         | practical impact on the traditional Linux desktop stack.
         | 
         | Heck, ChromeOS Flex seems to be shipping Crostini. Similar to
         | Windows, ChromeOS Flex is embedding a traditional Linux desktop
         | stack inside of it's walled garden.
        
           | ibejoeb wrote:
           | If it's shipping crostini, I'll probably give it a shot. I've
           | got a stack of old laptops that will probably run it just
           | fine. It'll work great for browsing or playing media, and
           | then anything special can be run on crostini. Pretty
           | convenient to keep old devices updated.
        
       | bedast wrote:
       | Despite my opinions on Google, ChromeOS is interesting to me. But
       | the most interesting aspect of it is missing in Flex: Access to
       | Android apps.
       | 
       | This is not ChromeOS, but a subset of it. ChromeOS Flex is not
       | interesting to me.
        
       | gravitate wrote:
       | If you want to install this:
       | https://chromeenterprise.google/os/chromeosflex/
        
       | fupimeng wrote:
       | This used to be a hot topic a few years ago. When will it be
       | actually ready?
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | It is amazing. It is my main driver right now. If you use VSCode,
       | make sure to set Title Bar Style to custom so you get rid of
       | ChromeOS's white title bar.
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | ChromeOS and all of its derivatives suck. End of story.
       | 
       | Every other general purpose OS, free or proprietary, is more
       | capable.
       | 
       | Most other alternatives, I would argue, are better user
       | experiences that are easier to use for the average person.
       | 
       | An iPad or tablet is more capable. A phone is more capable.
       | 
       | The sole value of ChromeOS is in the hardware: you get better
       | laptop hardware for your money by buying a Chromebook. Why else
       | would you choose ChromeOS?
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Many organizations choose Chrome OS because the users can't
         | break or degrade it. Of course that's mostly due to Chrome OS
         | being less capable.
        
       | real_kaipi wrote:
       | they make a big show to say that macs are supported, but in
       | reality only x86 macs are supported, M1/M2 are not.
       | 
       | They hide this in the required specs, 2 clicks after the main
       | announcement. Pretty misleading given that Apple currently sells
       | 2 non M1/M2 macs: an i5 Mac Mini and the Mac Pro (cheese grater).
        
       | invisible wrote:
       | The only thing that this reminded me of is that my relatively
       | expensive Chromebook (Pixelbook Go) just stopped receiving
       | feature updates after a few years. This seems great, but there is
       | no mention on how long they'll support the certified devices.
        
         | throwawy6362828 wrote:
         | The pixel book go gets updated until 2026, am I missing
         | something?
         | 
         | https://support.google.com/pixelbook/answer/9413900?hl=en
        
           | invisible wrote:
           | Huh, maybe the date on my laptop was wrong and a notification
           | was triggered? I definitely got a notification and was sent
           | to https://www.google.com/chromebook/older/
           | 
           | (Looking in settings, it has the 2026 date now.)
        
       | ijidak wrote:
       | Poor marketing. Doesn't show screenshots of the OS in use.
       | 
       | Doesn't go into detail about productivity applications.
       | 
       | Doesn't tell us about the apps available from the ecosystem. (Not
       | even the main product page.)
       | 
       | Not much to get customers excited.
       | 
       | This is why Apple always wins. (Well... Steve Jobs era Apple)
       | 
       | They've always been better at conveying what their new hotness
       | does.
       | 
       | I'll never forget the "app for that" campaign.
       | 
       | Pure genius.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Jemm wrote:
         | Marketing on value died decades ago. Now we sell emotion and
         | shiny.
        
           | jimt1234 wrote:
           | Don't sell the steak. Sell the sizzle.
        
         | gravitate wrote:
         | Chrome is the main app and I imagine you install apps from
         | Chrome itself, so no need to advertise then
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | > Poor marketing. Doesn't show screenshots of the OS in use.
         | 
         | It's the same as Chrome OS on Chromebooks
         | 
         | > Doesn't go into detail about productivity applications.
         | 
         | Google Docs or anything you can use on the web
         | 
         | > Doesn't tell us about the apps available from the ecosystem.
         | (Not even the main product page.)
         | 
         | There are none. Chrome Apps are deprecated so unless you use
         | linux via crostini (on normal chrome os devices you can also
         | use android apps but I don't think chrome os flex supports that
         | currently) there aren't any apps except PWAs.
         | 
         | > Not much to get customers excited.
         | 
         | It's for companies that want an easy to manage OS that just
         | provides a web browser, basically. They're not trying to market
         | chrome os flex to consumers. If you wanted a chrome os device
         | as a consumer you would buy a chromebook.
         | 
         | > This is why Apple always wins. (Well... Steve Jobs era Apple)
         | 
         | Chromebooks have been incredibly successful with elementary
         | schools in the US. iPads and macbooks have obviously been
         | successful too but they basically inhabit completely different
         | niches so it's not necessarily possible to say that apple is
         | "winning" against chrome os (apple would have to change their
         | approach somewhat to try to make a cheap ipad laptop at the
         | risk of cannibalizing the market for macbooks to try to compete
         | with chrome os). Chrome OS flex has a good chance at being
         | successful with companies that already have their own desktops
         | and don't need any offline applications.
        
           | stonogo wrote:
           | Chromebooks have been incredibly present in elementary
           | schools in the US. I haven't seen any metrics for
           | "successful" that go beyond "make sure every kid has a Google
           | account."
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Does "schools didn't switch back to iPads" count as
             | success?
        
       | epakai wrote:
       | I put it on a 2012 Macbook Air about a month ago. Things went
       | pretty well. Having a reasonable amount of drive space for the
       | Linux environment was nice for once. The keyboard backlight was
       | non-functional, but otherwise hardware seemed to work.
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | ChromeOS has gotten progressively worse over the years.
       | 
       | I have a Pixelbook and it used to be great, but now I get
       | constant freezes and crashes with android apps, unresponsive
       | windowing UI and launcher, etc. It's also constantly updating
       | itself, which isn't inherently bad, but it's asking for restarts
       | what feels like twice a week.
       | 
       | Linux containers is half-baked (takes >30 sec to launch), the
       | stability of Android apps is questionable.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | I have a cheap chromebook with much worse specs than a
         | pixelbook and it has been extremely reliable.
         | 
         | The linux containers are slow to start but that only applies to
         | the first time you run a linux app after restarting the
         | computer or logging out/in. Otherwise they work great.
         | 
         | Android apps are more of a mixed bag.
         | 
         | The bigger problem is that PWAs don't quite seem ready and
         | Chrome apps are deprecated so there's no good way to make apps
         | that specifically target chrome os right now.
        
           | invisible wrote:
           | I know it's not a requirement, but running docker containers
           | is a nontrivial headache. Additionally, running VSCode
           | resulted in a number of frustrating bugs:
           | 
           | - copy+paste not working, or only working on small strings
           | 
           | - font size issues and anti-aliasing issues
           | 
           | - delays on keystrokes
           | 
           | Any type of advanced networking in Linux was also a huge
           | headache (e.g. a wireguard interface) and didn't interop with
           | the browser. So as needed, I was at one point running both
           | the Chrome on ChromeOS and another Chrome in Linux.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Are you sure you didn't switch it to dev channel? The last five
         | production ChromeOS releases were on June 23, May 26, April 28,
         | March 31, and March 3, 4 weeks apart as usual.
        
           | turtlebits wrote:
           | Pretty sure im on stable - I guess I'll try a powerwash.
           | 
           | The biggest frustration is that all I use it as a glorifed
           | PDF reader for sheet music- I use an Android PDF reader and
           | the Scribd app and it's hit or miss it those work after
           | waking sleep.
        
       | edmcnulty101 wrote:
       | Whatever happened to Fuschia?
        
         | mhoad wrote:
         | Under active development but still at an early stage, last I
         | looked they were solving problems like standardising various
         | configuration APIs file formats etc so a long way it seems from
         | a daily driver let's say.
         | 
         | However, maybe a year or so ago they started a strategy with
         | Nest where they started rolling out updates which swapped the
         | underlying OS with an early release of Fuchsia on some models
         | and they seem to be expanding that into other models at the
         | moment.
         | 
         | But still very much a thing with meaningful but not
         | particularly public process.
        
           | mulderc wrote:
           | I'm still confused on what problem Fuchsia is solving.
        
       | cosmojg wrote:
       | Can't wait to run an operating system on my operating system on
       | my operating system! Maybe I'll even run an operating system on
       | it! Can it run Emacs?
        
         | antonvs wrote:
         | Chrome OS Flex is intended to run directly on the host device,
         | not on top of some other OS.
         | 
         | Chrome OS is basically a Chrome UI running on a customized
         | Linux distribution, and most apps the target users would run
         | are going to run directly in that environment - no "OS on your
         | OS on your OS."
         | 
         | The exception is native Linux apps, which on Chrome OS run in
         | an LXC container inside a Chrome OS VM, mainly for security
         | reasons. However, any GUI for such apps is proxied to the host
         | display, so the virtualization is purely a back end detail -
         | similar to how most web back ends run in containers and VMs on
         | the internet somewhere.
        
       | fmakunbound wrote:
       | Unfortunately my first thought is to wonder if they'll scrap it
       | after I've invested some time into it.
        
       | lifeplusplus wrote:
       | giant privacy concerns
        
         | yomkippur wrote:
         | was my immediate thought thinking this is an OS that is running
         | inside google's servers?
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | I glanced at the list of certified devices. You know what's _not_
       | on the list? Google 's own Chromebook Pixel.[0] Which
       | coincidentally stopped getting OS updates from Google around
       | 2018. [1]
       | 
       | The specs are a little long in the tooth now (especially that
       | battery life which was _always_ crap), but I still love the form
       | factor of it. I removed the write-protect screw from it a couple
       | years back and threw Linux Mint onto it, but it would be real
       | nice to have it as an up-to-date Chromebook again.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel
       | 
       | [1] https://chromeunboxed.com/news/original-chromebook-pixel-
       | upd...
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | Ironically, the best way to have a supported Chrome browser has
         | always been to buy a Windows PC. Google will continue to
         | support every single Windows 7 PC until January 15th, 2023, an
         | operating system released 13 years ago, in 2009. Most Windows 7
         | PCs can also run Windows 10 for free, which punts that out
         | probably at least another decade, but with no end of life
         | officially yet set.
         | 
         | Meanwhile, Chromebooks have a three year lifecycle, and LOL if
         | you spent real money on one.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | Chromebooks are supported for six years (just be sure to get
           | the latest model).
        
             | abraham wrote:
             | Chromebooks are starting to get eight years.
             | 
             | https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/02/07/chromebooks-will-
             | no...
        
       | johnvaluk wrote:
       | I just want to download the image and dd it to a flash drive.
       | Nobody uses ChromeOS without a Google account, so why add extra
       | hoops to jump through?
        
       | bityard wrote:
       | Well this link is to a fluffy marketing piece that tells you
       | exactly zero about what the product is, why I should care, or how
       | it's different from ChromeOS. Must be nice to get paid to write
       | lots of words without actually saying anything.
       | 
       | Some links that may be more helpful for the HN audience:
       | 
       | How to install it without handing over your personal info to a
       | salescritter:
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529
       | 
       | Supported devices:
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094 (No
       | information on whether it will refuse to install on other devices
       | or whether it's more of a "it could work, but you'll be on your
       | own" situation. Interestingly, there are Apple products listed.)
       | 
       | Differences between ChromeOS and ChromeOS Flex:
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11542901
       | 
       | Edit: One important difference that pretty much wipes out what a
       | lot of us would be interested in: "Google Play and Android apps:
       | Chrome OS Flex does not support Android apps or Google Play."
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure all the Apple devices listed support Bootcamp.
         | So it wouldn't be all that difficult to load another OS on it.
        
         | Macacity wrote:
         | From the page about the differences:
         | 
         | > While many non-certified devices might work, Google
         | guarantees only those on the list.
        
         | chaostheory wrote:
         | > One important difference that pretty much wipes out what a
         | lot of us would be interested in: "Google Play and Android
         | apps: Chrome OS Flex does not support Android apps or Google
         | Play."
         | 
         | If they added that, it would kill Chrome OS's main benefit:
         | security.
        
           | solardev wrote:
           | Why would it kill security? Chrome OS already supports Play
           | and Android apps:
           | https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/7021273?hl=en
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | Many of ChromeOS's security guarantees evaporate as soon as
             | you install or enable the android subsystem.
        
               | mato wrote:
               | I beg to differ on this. Went to a presentation by the
               | ChromeOS engineers who developed the Android support, at
               | LinuxCon 2016(?) in Berlin. Everything shown there
               | pointed to an explicit distrust of Android, their
               | security posture was essentially 'sandbox the hell out of
               | it'.
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | I wonder if this is related to Flex's "supported" devices not
           | having verified boot, which is via a chip provided by Google.
           | Some detail at https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/p
           | latform/ec/+/c....
        
         | adamredwoods wrote:
         | I read it as a point-of-sale / service OS for business-level
         | security. I don't think its audience is home consumer.
         | 
         | (edit: as others have stated)
        
         | ospray wrote:
         | >One important difference that pretty much wipes out what a lot
         | of us would be interested in: "Google Play and Android apps:
         | Chrome OS Flex does not support Android apps or Google Play."
         | 
         | Looking at the OS I think Flex isn't targeted at consumers but
         | at enterprise who want an idiot proof Google docs/chrome
         | workspace for employees.
        
       | gravitate wrote:
       | How is this different than Cloudready by Neverware?
        
         | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
         | Chrome OS Flex is the new name for Cloudready now that Google
         | owns it. The Cloudready download page now directs to the
         | installation instructions for Chrome OS Flex. More info about
         | the acquisition is at
         | https://cloudreadykb.neverware.com/s/article/Neverware-is-no...
        
         | Commodore63 wrote:
         | Google bought Neverware.
        
       | nehalem wrote:
       | Chrome OS's easy administration is great, but Google Accounts are
       | just not an option in many environments. Are there any approaches
       | with self-hosted auth/admin/control servers?
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | >"cloud-first"
       | 
       | Sorry, I do not want my personal OS install to be cloud first. I
       | want it to be cloud last.
        
         | happyopossum wrote:
         | This is really not targeted at personal use
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-14 23:01 UTC)