[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Is it possible to get an 18-year-old to spen...
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Ask HN: Is it possible to get an 18-year-old to spend less time on
the computer?
A relative of mine asked for help with their 18-year-old child and
computer time. The teen spends 9+ hours a day playing games and
watching anime. When I was a kid, I got around a lot of
restrictions, so I'm concerned a software-based approach won't
work. The parent has tried locking the computer in a different
room, which works, but it lacks nuance. It's okay to play video
games as long as it is a healthy amount. Parents of HN, what
measures or completely different approaches have worked to
establish healthy computer time limits for your kids?
Author : pvillano
Score : 40 points
Date : 2022-07-13 17:33 UTC (5 hours ago)
| ilamont wrote:
| Easy to understand consequences.
|
| For instance, my 17 year old once let his friend drive our car.
| He lost driving privileges for a week. Did not happen again.
|
| For excessive computer use, the 18 year old looses access to
| home-cooked meals, driving the car, money, laundry, etc. You
| could also tie it directly to the computer, such as limiting wifi
| or phone connectivity if usage goes above a certain level.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| I was this kid because I wanted nothing to do with my abusive
| parents.
|
| Please don't be an enabler.
| kleer001 wrote:
| There's not enough information here to help nor is there any
| leverage OP (or really the parents) could use to change their
| behaviour without threatening their relationship with the kid.
|
| If it is an addiction like behaviour the person needs to see the
| negative impact their addiction has on their life and what they
| love before they are willing to change.
|
| I bet this kid had free access to screens since they were very
| little.
|
| Why doesn't this kid have a job? Why doesn't the kid have a
| social life or other responsibilities that takes them outside?
| Are they special needs, physically or mentally? Are they being
| solely supported by their parents?
|
| It sounds harsh, but tell your relative "The horse has long left
| the barn."
| jordanpg wrote:
| I'm so nervous about the horrible spirals possible on the modern
| internet that I think I will be grateful if my kids at 18 are
| wasting their days having relatively harmless and somewhat social
| fun.
|
| Hopefully they will be doing something more productive, but if
| it's just this, I'll be OK with that. 28, maybe less so. This
| seems to be the way of the world now.
| cstrahan wrote:
| Make not being in front of their computer more enticing (unless
| you want to pursue the alternative: coercion).
|
| If not in front of their computer, what would they fill their
| time with? What _would_ they do, if only they didn't have some
| other roadblock -- and what exactly is stoping them?
|
| I know for me at that age, the computer represented a means for
| endless intellectual stimulation (between the endless depth and
| breadth of software dev, 3D modeling, mastering/exploiting game
| mechanics, etc). Books on their own held no value to me, as I'm
| interested in doing -- not merely rote memorization -- so you
| couldn't have paid me enough to sit with my nose in a book all
| day.
|
| My other "options" weren't really options at all. I had crippling
| anxiety, so going out with (or making) friends was not a very
| appealing idea, when I could instead get lost in my own thoughts
| without assuming any risk.
|
| Does their child have similar challenges? If so, maybe address
| that first. Help them discover and unlock activities that,
| perhaps with a bit of initial work on their part, will be every
| bit as satisfying (if not more so) than sitting in front of a
| glowing rectangle all day.
| dimitar wrote:
| Isn't an 18 year old an adult? They don't seem to be treated like
| one
| picsao wrote:
| chimineycricket wrote:
| The parents should've taken action when this first started, not
| after it became a habit/addiction. Not that this helps you find
| your solution.
| Karsteski wrote:
| How about just spend some time with the person...
| TYPE_FASTER wrote:
| I have been known to turn off the internet using a variety of
| methods, ranging from using the NetGear parental controls that
| can be used to block content of various categories, to physically
| disconnecting it.
|
| If they figure out how to get around it, at least they're
| learning something.
| ergonaught wrote:
| There is no such thing as an 18 year old child.
|
| Either let them decide for themselves because they're an adult,
| or kick them out so they live on their own and decide for
| themselves because they're an adult, but in either case, they
| decide for themselves because they're an adult.
|
| Hint: they decide for themselves, because they're an adult.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Charge rent.
| popotamonga wrote:
| i rerouted his computers connections to a linux box that adds a
| random 100-1000ms delay on packets and limits bandwidth. I guess
| we have bad internet kid, maybe if you get a job we can afford
| better internet. It's ok he'll never find out
| Shadonototra wrote:
| Try to get interested to what he is doing, talk to him, that way
| you can mention to him some cool stuff he can do with a computer
| like programming, even gamedev
|
| He found an escape with computers, he found friends probably
| playing online, don't restrict that to him
|
| Reading books 9h a day or staying on your computer 9h a day is
| the exact same
| sevenf0ur wrote:
| Instead of focusing on computer use, have your relatives set up
| some rules to continue living at home and largely letting go.
| This could mean staying enrolled in courses or working a set
| number of hours in a job.
|
| Spending all day being unproductive is a warning sign so bring up
| the option of therapy.
| causi wrote:
| Spending 9+ hours a day engaged in escapism is a form of self-
| medication. You must address the problem(s) causing them to feel
| the need to self-medicate.
| [deleted]
| stevieb89 wrote:
| I was like this and went on for years. I personally have always
| had problems with social anxiety. Go join a jujitsu club and go
| with him/her and build their confidence. Don't restrict them as
| they'll just double down and at the end of the day they are who
| they are and they are 18 and very unlikely to listen to their
| parents until they are way older.
| luhego wrote:
| Someone who is 18 is already an adult. Trying to enforce
| restrictions to an adult will only generate pushback and
| resentment. At that age, it is too late. You can let him play and
| live that way or you may try to fix it. The later will only cause
| discussions and fights.
| millzlane wrote:
| And before you know it, your 31 year old man child is still
| sitting in the basement and you're still buying their games.
| throwaway5959 wrote:
| So the trope goes at least. I wonder how many cases are
| actually like that though.
| luhego wrote:
| There are multiple ways to try to stop this behavior. I will
| tell you the ways that didn't work for my parents. Turning
| off the internet, cutting the electricity off, hiding the PC
| or consoles, knocking the door at night asking if I am
| playing or studying. They annoyed me so much that I stopped
| playing for a while, got a job and moved out from my parents
| house at the first opportunity. Now, I continue to play as
| before but no longer talk to them. If that is the outcome the
| op friend is trying to accomplish then ok.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| Surely there must be a line you can take between letting them
| use their free time how they want, and enabling them to never
| need to do anything else.
|
| What my parents did with me when I was 18 is: I could love at
| home rent free if I was enrolled in classes at university, or
| I could start paying rent.
|
| Frankly, I don't see much of a problem with someone staying
| at home into adulthood, many cultures do that already.
| However the caveat is usually they have to contribute to the
| household, either with rent or housework or whatever. I don't
| see that as a problem.
| lwansbrough wrote:
| I had a full time job at 18. Probably time to give them the ol'
| ultimatum.
| larrik wrote:
| There's a lot of differing opinions here, but there's something
| that's important to note:
|
| Playing video games _feels like progress_. It gives you all the
| satisfaction of a job well done, without actually providing any
| benefit whatsoever. Finishing a tv or anime series can have this
| affect as well.
|
| It can be difficult to break free of that and direct energies
| towards actual productivity.
| ejb999 wrote:
| If my kid was spending 8+ hours a day on the computer, it would
| tell me they don't have enough to do - and should have a job.
|
| Stop buying things for 18 year olds - including clothes and other
| necessities other than the absolute basics (assuming they live at
| home) - 8 hours per day free time means they have enough free
| time to get a job and pay their own way.
|
| As a parent of 4 successful kids - all now grown - leaving them
| wanting more than you provide them for free - that they then have
| to work and pay for themselves, can do wonders.
| corrral wrote:
| I don't plan to let mine have their own cell phones (we'll
| probably get a dumbphone for them to share when they go out
| places or for their friends to call them, as they get a bit
| older) until they can pay for the phone _and plan_ themselves.
| If they stop paying for the plan, I 'll lock the MAC out of our
| wifi. Can't pay for it, not ready for it. 8 year olds shouldn't
| have a smartphone.
|
| [EDIT] Just to back up your "if you can't pay for it, you don't
| get it" approach, that is. Strong agreement. Risky perks like
| Internet access must be earned. As for video games, the Switch
| is nice because you can easily physically remove it to
| somewhere else without having to unplug a bunch of stuff.
| Switch isn't there = no video games right now. Switch is there
| = video games are OK. Zero monitoring required.
| josephcsible wrote:
| Is your goal to socially stunt all of your kids? Because
| that's what happens when they go for years being the only
| ones in their peer groups with substantially less ability to
| communicate with each other.
| larrik wrote:
| This was my plan too, but when they hit middle school and are
| literally the only kid without a phone, and it is the
| difference between being invited places vs not, it just
| doesn't work.
| corrral wrote:
| Depends a _lot_ on the school. Locally, in public schools,
| half or more of kids have their own smartphone by fourth
| grade. The situation at at least _some_ private schools is
| _very_ different. Low rates of ownership up until 8th grade
| or so. Helps that some of the private schools haven 't gone
| batshit insane and started letting kids carry their phones
| around with them all day, like, inexplicably, all of the
| public schools have.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _haven 't gone batshit insane and started letting kids
| carry their phones around with them all day_
|
| Would you expand on why this is "batshit insane"?
|
| Phones are one of the most ubiquitous pieces of tech on
| the planet, have several very beneficial uses, make it
| easier to connect and stay in touch with friends, etc.
| Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and
| appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of
| "batshit insane" to me.
| orev wrote:
| > Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and
| appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of
| "batshit insane" to me.
|
| Giving them unrestricted access to phones is not how you
| do this. That's like saying that for every kid who wants
| to eat ice cream for dinner every night, that you'd give
| them an unlimited supply and "eventually" they'll figure
| out why that's not good (after they're already morbidly
| obese and have diabetes).
|
| The starting point for a limitation is that they have to
| be forced into the limit (by the parents setting and
| enforcing the rules), which mentally creates a baseline
| of what's acceptable vs not. Then you can progress into
| something that's less restrictive over time, which is
| where the shifting of responsibility happens.
| corrral wrote:
| > Teaching kids how to use the technology responsibly and
| appropriately at an early age seems the exact opposite of
| "batshit insane" to me.
|
| They do not and cannot realistically do this. Meanwhile,
| it's like they're letting them walk around with gameboys
| that can also be (and _constantly_ are) used to
| clandestinely bully people and take creepy photos and
| share them and shit. It 's _plainly_ insane.
|
| [EDIT] Further, they're _at school_. How much "stay[ing]
| in touch with their friends" do they need to do?! They're
| either in class, so shouldn't be fucking around on their
| phones (the problem: they do, a lot, and at least around
| here most admin won't take their phones away or ban them
| from having phones at school for it) or they're between
| classes or at lunch or whatever _and can just talk to
| their friends_.
| ziddoap wrote:
| > _They do not and cannot realistically do this_
|
| I guess we disagree on the fundamentals. I believe kids
| can be taught how to interact with technology
| responsibly. In fact, my whole goal as a parent is to
| teach my kid how to responsibly navigate through life
| (which has increasing amounts of technology that they
| must eventually learn how to interact with).
|
| Sometimes they need a bit more hand-holding (e.g.
| parental controls on a phone so it isn't a gameboy) until
| we can properly discuss something and settle on
| appropriate boundries. Other times they surprise me with
| how responsible they are. But if you're starting from a
| position of "kids can't learn to use a phone
| responsibly", I'm not sure what to say.
| corrral wrote:
| > I believe kids can be taught how to interact with
| technology responsibly.
|
| _A school_ cannot do this while doing all the other
| stuff they have to do, and you don 't get to teach your
| kids' peers not to do horrible things with their devices.
|
| AFAI am concerned teaching them responsible use would
| include teaching them that a smartphone has no place in
| school. Shit, they never let us carry _dumb_ phones and
| it was only near the end we could even keep them in our
| lockers, and _that was the right decision_. I don 't
| think they let our predecessors carry Electronic Football
| around at school, either, and that was _also_ the right
| call, despite those devices posing ~no danger and being
| about 1% as disruptive as a smartphone.
| spunker540 wrote:
| Lol-- I had a friend whose parents took this approach. The
| parents eventually gave in because they got tired of never
| being able to reach their son through failed attempts to call
| friends (like me) in an effort to reach him.
|
| Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old
| (still not really working age but definitely socializing
| independently age).
| corrral wrote:
| Hence the shared dumbphone to take places. If we have to,
| we'll get one for each. No personal smartphones until they
| can pay for it themselves, at which point I reckon that's
| proof enough that they're responsible enough for it until
| they prove otherwise.
|
| [EDIT] Also:
|
| > Also big difference between an 8 year old and 15 year old
| (still not really working age but definitely socializing
| independently age).
|
| I started my first job at 15, as did tons of my classmates.
| Is that no longer a fairly ordinary age for a first job?
| Has it changed that much changed in a bit over two decades?
| chucksta wrote:
| AFAIK nothings really changed, but 14 has been on the
| fringe of legal employment age in most scenarios for a
| long time and is regulated. 16+ is fair game, plus
| depending on location there is the whole issue about how
| they get to work.
| [deleted]
| breadbreadbread wrote:
| I think the issue requires a bit more nuance and understanding
| than "Get a Job". If there are core issues underlying the
| symptom of "my kid is on the computer", getting a job might
| make those issues worse. Not to mention that many jobs ARE
| online. Your kid could actually be hustling too hard and
| neglecting their personal life and suffering for it.
| fiftyfifty wrote:
| This. As someone who has 3 adult children all out of the house
| now, I would take this a step further and say we have an
| obligation as parents to teach our young adult children how to
| be self sufficient. Learning how to find a job and stay
| employed, pay rent and bills etc are all life skills that we
| should be teaching our kids as they mature. If they don't have
| plans to continue with school then they should be working. It
| is a mistake to let kids stay dependent on you for the long
| term when they should be starting their own careers and/or
| finding their place in the world.
|
| I had a neighbor years ago who passed away suddenly and he had
| two adult kids living with him in their early-mid 20s that
| weren't working or going to school. After a few months the bank
| foreclosed on their house and kicked the kids out. They had no
| money and no place to live, I'm not sure what ended up
| happening to them. Give your kids a fighting chance in the
| world people by helping them become functional adults.
| hutrdvnj wrote:
| Don't restrict his access, he is 18, you do more harm than good
| to go that way. Tell him that you are worried and offer him
| alternatives.
| solarmist wrote:
| Removing computer time won't help without replacing it with
| something else.
|
| What are they proposing he do with his time instead?
| ziddoap wrote:
| No context given, how do you expect reasonable answers?
|
| Just some things that would _majorly_ influence what the
| appropriate actions would be:
|
| 1) Does the 18 y/o (an adult, by the way!) have a job already,
| and this is how they spend their free time?
|
| 2) Have the family tried the revolutionary tactic of talking to
| each other about their concerns?
|
| 2a) If so, what were the results of the conversations?
|
| 3) Is there other influencing factors (e.g. social anxiety, other
| underlying medical conditions, etc.) that aren't being addressed?
|
| 4) Did the behavior start recently? If so, what triggered the
| change? If not, why is it suddenly a problem?
|
| 5) What is the end goal? Have them move out? Have them be more
| physically fit? Contribute more to the household?
|
| Edit:
|
| Reading through some of these comments is disheartening. It
| sounds like a bunch of managers figuring out the best ways to
| discipline an employee rather than parents trying to foster
| healthy relationships with their kids and encourage healthy
| lifestyles. Being a parent requires _effort_ , not just stripping
| your kids of every luxury or slightly positive aspect of their
| life until they become the model robot/employee.
| spoiler wrote:
| This was me, albeit not when I was 18 due to existential problems
| and shit living situation, so I was forced to get a job around
| 17/18, but that's a bit off topic for this. But it was me for
| most of my teens, and to an extent still is today.
|
| Even after I found a job, I spent most of my free time online,
| and made lifelong friends; most of whom I've met many times in
| person. I even moved to London to be able to hang out more often
| in person.
|
| Often, extreme escapism can be ways of coping. Either coping
| because the parents haven't taught their children any coping
| mechanisms, or because they have childhood trauma that they're
| not processing (either due to a still traumatic environment,
| often caused by parents).
|
| Obviously, laziness exists, but contrary to popular opinion, I
| don't believe anyone who plays a lot of videogames is _lazy_
| because games often exert a lot of mental effort.
|
| There's also the possibility of addiction, but addiction is often
| a maladaptive coping mechanisms that has roots in traumatic
| childhood and is often a symptom of Complex PTSD. Sorry for kinda
| making a circular argument.
|
| So, anyway, my advice would be to--instead of forcing the child
| into stopping using the computer--get them into therapy.
| Therapists who deal with children of abusive narcissistic parents
| is my recommendation; narcissism in the family is incredibly
| insidious, especially to children. It's often impossible to spot
| from the outside due to the narcissists false self they present
| to the rest of the world.[0]
|
| On a more positive note, spending so much time watching anime,
| "playing games", and hanging out in various creative online
| communities sparked my interest for software development. My care
| giver called it "playing video games" too, but I was actually
| writing my own visual roleplay software used by a few hundred
| people (not much I know, but it was a niche community and it felt
| as an achievement in my teens). Obviously, I played games too,
| but the point I'm trying to make is that maybe the parents can't
| even tell the difference, lol.
|
| This is all from personal experience and it's very anecdotal,
| though.
|
| [0]: https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2016/04/22/raised-by-
| narci...
|
| https://narcissistfamilyfiles.com/2020/04/30/5-things-childr...
|
| The narcissistic family files websites is a morbid treasure trove
| on anyone who wants to educate themselves. If people are morbidly
| curious or this resonates with them, I also recommend checking
| out Dr Ramani's YouTube channel, as well as potentially checking
| out her healing programme. Additionally, look for a support group
| of you think you might have been exposed to narcissism in
| childhood. I'm also available to talk if you have no one else to
| talk to that "gets it" but I'm not an expert and I'm still
| struggling/recovering myself, so I can't give and sound advice,
| but I can at least offer compassion. It gets better; you just
| gotta believe in the process.
| Miner49er wrote:
| Is the goal for the 18 year old to get a job or to socialize
| more, or what?
| chefkoch wrote:
| Get him a girlfriend.
| EddieDante wrote:
| What is OP supposed to do, take this guy down to the Girlfriend
| Store and have him pick one he likes off the rack? You know
| women don't actually work like that, right?
| chazeon wrote:
| I would say it would be better if the 18-year-old could redirect
| energy to some meaningful stuff, e.g., learn to program. I
| remember I came to college and spend even more time a day to
| struggle Python. It then open me up to a lot of other
| opportunities later.
| Moldoteck wrote:
| Aside from what others said, is the environment where he live
| good enough for outdoor activities? Like parks, public sport
| playgrounds, bicycle lanes, lake/river across the city and so on?
| Because if not, you can't do much. If yes, the best option would
| be spending some time together outdoor or having some interesting
| experiences together (climbing, tenis...).
| shishy wrote:
| I spent more time than that around that age and everything was
| fine. Not saying it's always fine but more context would give you
| better answers here.
|
| What games are they playing? Anything competitively? What anime
| are they watching? Do they talk to friends / discuss them online?
| Do they get excited by it?
|
| Your friend could try to engage with them around their kids
| interests instead of taking them away and forcing other things
| that may not be of any interest and just stress their
| relationship.
|
| Maybe it was a lot but I turned out fine... in my case I was
| playing DotA / TF2 competitively at the time and so I learned a
| lot of transferable skills (that come to anyone that competes at
| a reasonable level), even though "I was in front of the computer
| for a long time", which is exactly how my parents would have
| described it.
|
| I watched movies and anime a lot in "front of the computer" but I
| had communities online to discuss them and engaged with them
| deeply (i.e. not just a mindless activity). Here I was lucky that
| I had friends to talk to / watch with.
|
| It all depends really and I would push back to understand if
| their child's time on the computer is actually wasted.
|
| Also, 18 year old isn't really a teen anymore... basically an
| adult!
|
| For the record I don't spend that much time these days but my
| interests just sort of shifted as I grew older naturally to other
| things, but the way the post is phrased just makes me wonder if
| it's actually a bad thing...
| clownworldclown wrote:
| What measures "healthy"?
|
| Most "healthy" individuals indulge in addiction: television,
| food, news.
|
| What do the parents hope for the kid's future? What makes a good
| life? Why is it bad that someone spends 9+ hours a day on the
| computer when that's the standard for all software engineers?
|
| What do they hope to accomplish by restricting internet time?
| What does the kid want for the future?
| josephcsible wrote:
| An 18-year-old is an adult. Parents have no right to enforce
| computer time restrictions on their adult children and should not
| try to.
| xeromal wrote:
| Warning: This is a very American opinion so know that I realize
| that many people don't feel this way.
|
| If my kid is 18 and living at home, I have some say in the
| life. If they want 0 say, they can find their own way.
| Obviously, I don't give a rat's ass that my 18 year old games
| becasue as long as they have a healthy lifestyle, I'm glad
| they're enjoying themselves but if they're starting to become a
| hermit and losing friends, not working, not taking care of
| their health, etc, then they're going to have some pressure
| from me.
|
| You don't get to live off the teet and also not listen at all.
| striking wrote:
| The way this is phrased makes it sound unreasonably
| judgmental, all stick and no carrot. If anyone had spoken to
| me like this at 18 I'd have been furious. There's not a word
| of how you might help the kid be less of a hermit, lose less
| friends, find a job, take care of themselves. Just "some
| pressure". Who do you think is responsible for the kid being
| the way they are? Thanks for prefacing it with a warning, I'm
| wishing I hadn't disregarded it.
| xeromal wrote:
| > There's not a word of how you might help the kid be less
| of a hermit, lose less friends, find a job, take care of
| themselves.
|
| I understand your comment and I just want to say that my
| comment is assuming we're past that point that you're
| talking about. I didn't want to write an article. Some kids
| can be stubborn. Anecdote: My great grandma tried that with
| my great uncle (all carrot) and he lived in her basement
| playing videos games until he died of a heart attack. I
| thought he had the best life because he got to be lazy, but
| it didn't server him very well. The end. Being a pushover
| and being considerate is a very fine line that is easy to
| fuck up.
| striking wrote:
| I'm not saying you should only give out carrots, either.
| I just think assuming the responsibility lies on the kid
| to behave correctly doesn't make sense.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| If the 18 year old is not self-supporting (ie lives at home,
| does not pay own expenses) the parent has every right to make
| restrictions on how the child spends their time.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Flip side, parents don't have to provide room and board, or
| power. And if it is their computer, they don't have to provide
| access to it.
| lawkwok wrote:
| If the child is really an adult, they should contribute to the
| house like one. They don't get a free ride of autonomy without
| the responsibility.
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| Yes, if they're bothered enough by it, kick him out of the
| house. You're a grown-up now, figure it out.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| > kick him
|
| do unto others as others have done to you?
| kleer001 wrote:
| If I was wasting my time at 18 and my parents had kicked me
| out, and depending on how they did it, I might very well
| appreciate it when I was older.
| refurb wrote:
| Exactly. They are an adult so should be self-sufficient and
| support themselves.
|
| If said 18 year old has the money to live on their own and play
| video games, all the more power to 'em!
|
| But seriously, the computer isn't the issue. Kid needs to start
| pulling their own weight or they're going to be in for a rude
| awakening.
| daenz wrote:
| >no right to enforce
|
| If you want to go down the "no right" path...
|
| Assuming the adult(child) is not contributing financially to
| living expenses, the child has no right to an internet
| connection, electricity, room & board, usage of any equipment
| that they do not own, etc. So while the parent has no right to
| tell their adult child what to do with their time, the adult
| child has no right to free resources.
| [deleted]
| namecheapTA wrote:
| This is almost not a child question but a question about any
| friend/person you care about. They're old enough that just
| setting restrictions is going to make them replace one unhealthy
| habit with another if the underlying issue is not fixed. Is it
| really better if you forcibly take away the computer and they
| replace it with going to pool halls all day?
|
| If I had a friend that was wasting their life away, I'd try to
| find out what they were interested in doing in this decade or 5
| years of their life and then I'd try to help them and motivate
| them to begin on it. You'd then probably have to actively try to
| help along the way because they probably don't have the skills
| yet to push through at every single minor roadblock they might
| hit. Basically you'll have to repeat this motivation/help hourly,
| then daily then weekly for a long time.
|
| "People discount motivational speeches because it doesn't last.
| Well, neither does bathing and that's why we recommend it daily."
| -zig ziglar
| drooby wrote:
| I was once this kid..
|
| So from that perspective I can say... the internet and video
| games were very much filling a void in my life. It took spiraling
| into deep depression and thoughts of suicide to realize I needed
| to make the change myself. I suspect any degree of forceful
| action wont work sufficiently.
|
| Find out what this kid wants out of life, _actually get to know
| them_ , something my parents never really did. _And this might
| mean asking to play video games with them_.
|
| Once you know what they want, _what they truly want_ , you can
| help provide the tools and guidance for achieving those things
| outside of a television or computer screen.
|
| Making the effort to actually connect with the person before
| suggesting an alternative lifestyle is key.
|
| That being said, this person is a young adult and many people
| live happy lives spending lots of time in front of a screen.
| mikkergp wrote:
| Agree with everything above. I would also say, I spend more
| than 9 hours a day on my computer. Sure, it's my job, but I'm
| curious what "healthy computer habits" means in a world where
| this person will very likely be expected to spend 9 hours a day
| on the computer for their work. Unhealthy computer habits as a
| teenager are what made me able to get a job in this field
| without a degree. Certainly some of this was unhealthy for me,
| and 9 hours a day playing video games can be problematic, but
| ultimately I went from spending 9 hours a day in front of a
| computer to.... spending 9 hours a day in front of a computer.
| bartaxyz wrote:
| > And this might mean asking to play video games with them.
|
| I double this. It breaks so many barriers to just embrace the
| hobby and go along with it. Once the barriers are down, you'll
| get to know the person behind that face much much better.
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| I feel like this advice is the best that I've skimmed through
| here.
|
| I am _still_ this kid (though now older and working). All the
| people calling to just unilaterally cut all computer access
| make me wonder if they themselves even remember being 18 or
| lived similar to this way when they were that age.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| > many people live happy lives spending lots of time in front
| of a screen.
|
| Though the screen with its infinite entertainment capacity can
| easily prevent you from finding what brings you actual
| fulfillment.
| rasz wrote:
| carrot: sex, get him a one time babysitter
|
| stick: sell the computer, require rent
| slothtrop wrote:
| That ship has sailed. This behavior did not start at 18. If
| parents are still confidently in a position they feel they can
| "parent" (doubtful), then one option is to create alternatives
| rather than mere restrictions, i.e. sign them up for extra-
| curriculars. Otherwise, unless this legal adult wants to change,
| they won't.
| brandon272 wrote:
| 18 is an age where a person needs to be transitioning into
| adulthood and the behaviours and responsibilities that go along
| with that. That means less time on the leisure activities
| associated with the common teenager (like spending all day
| playing computer games and watching YouTube), and more time on
| choosing and investing time in a career or education pathway.
|
| And if that child is not getting the message that the time for
| that is now, then it's up to the parents to enforce that
| boundary.
| diegof79 wrote:
| A 18yo is not a child, do not to treat him/her as one.
|
| The violence of taking stuff away and the lack of conversation,
| is more problematic than the screen time.
|
| Have one (or many) respectful conversations about screen time
| addiction. Every addictive habit has a feedback loop of
| "Trigger/Routine/Reward". Talk with her to change some parts of
| that cycle. For example, instead of watching anime alone, it
| could be social -in person- activity with friends (same reward,
| different routine). What is the trigger for these activities?
| Perhaps this person is depressed, and the depression is the
| trigger for that routine (even if is not that rewarding). In that
| case, ask for professional help.
|
| Summary. Be creative, patient, and *listen*.
| cvccvroomvroom wrote:
| No. Turn off their internet between 11 pm and 7 am.
| b20000 wrote:
| an 18-year old is not a child.
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| Depends. I know many in their 40s who are definitely more of a
| child than some are forced to be adults at 15.
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| You haven't met a lot of 18 year old from the last couple
| generations.
|
| Regardless of reasons, there appears to be a huge deficit of
| "growing up" in a large fraction of modern 18 year olds.
|
| Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have been at
| age 18 either.
| Rayhem wrote:
| > Looking back, I was pretty much not where I should have
| been at age 18 either.
|
| I offer no conclusion and intend no oblique subtext, but is
| it not equally valid to suggest that, historically, we have
| expected too much of eighteen year olds? Particularly since
| we now know human brains don't usually "set" until the mid to
| late twenties.
| cvccvroomvroom wrote:
| Both sets of my grandparents were adults by 16. One set were
| starving Dust Bowl refugees who their parents could afford to
| feed (think modern day Somalia). The other had terrible
| foster and actual parents they had to escape.
|
| When times are easy and in the absence of challenges, people
| people rarely mature as quickly or develop grit.
| cvccvroomvroom wrote:
| The ones in the US now are often children until 26 or so. YMMV.
|
| I speak from extensive experience interacting with college and
| non college graduates across the generational ranges (21 to
| 60+) in professional and personal settings. Also, including
| people from Western and Eastern Europe, India, and China.
| EddieDante wrote:
| I'm not a parent, but I've been in this kid's position. I didn't
| have a computer at 18, and I certainly didn't have internet
| access. So if I wasn't at work or at school I'd hang out at the
| public library or hide behind books at home. I did this because I
| had learned that nobody actually gave a shit about me as long as
| I stayed out of their way. They didn't want me around, and
| weren't interested in how I felt or what I thought as long as
| "did my part" to raise my brothers and didn't drop out of school,
| get a girl pregnant, or murder my brothers or classmates. It was
| plain that I wasn't welcome in the society around me, and I had
| come to decide that society didn't deserve me.
|
| There's a discussion on r/menslib that touches on this at <https:
| //teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>.
|
| This comment at
| <https://teddit.net/r/MensLib/comments/vucpf1/boys_need_help_...>
| is particularly relevant:
|
| > So, as you say, the question is: did society create the
| computer kid by ignoring them, or did the computer kid disregard
| society because computers were more interesting?
|
| > Both, possibly. But there's no smoke without fire. If you force
| a kid into solo, insular hobbies and to find their own ways to
| connect to things without the opportunity for those things to be
| other people, you really can't complain decades later that he's
| socially inept.
|
| I felt forced to find ways to entertain myself because I grew up
| without friends, was emotionally neglected, and never figured out
| how to _make_ friends as a kid because my parents figured that I
| was somehow "smart enough" to not need help with social skills.
| It wasn't computers for me; it was books, heavy metal albums, and
| console gaming.
|
| You're not going to fix this "addiction" without first
| confronting the root causes. Chances are this kid was emotionally
| neglected, and they're using the computer to cope.
| eushebdbsh wrote:
| we live in a SOCIETY
| mrjay42 wrote:
| Well their comment was actually interesting, had you read it.
|
| It's one of the only ones so far, mentioning the fact of
| discussing with the 18 yo son, trying to find the cause(s) of
| his behavior.
|
| Most of the other answers are as stupid a "blablabla when I
| was 18 I had a fulltime job", good for you Jake, it made you
| into the pretentious adult applying one solution to everyone
| else problems and even worse giving those advice randomly to
| people on in the internet.
| LinkLink wrote:
| As a kid coming fresh out of a similar phase at 18, now 22 I
| might be able to provide some insight from my self reflection.
|
| First off if your kid is medicated especially with high dose ADHD
| medication it is likely way over prescribed, and to deal with the
| literal mental overclocking storm the best way is to have an
| environment and stimuli you have complete control over, IE a
| computer in a room.
|
| Secondly as somebody else mentioned the child has likely been
| emotionally neglected, not only by their parents but by their
| peers. Its very hard to fit in these days and with social media
| it is overly apparent when you do not. Looking back the best
| thing that helped me claw my way out of the funk caused by this
| is most importantly that I wanted to, and secondly that my
| parents cared enough to try and involve me in social programs.
| One of the blessings of being young is that when you are forced
| into situations by your parents such as clubs or social circles,
| you have no need to justify being there. It sucks at first but it
| really helps. Also if theyre obese A health coach would be a
| great first step.
|
| If the young adult is defiant and very hard headed, forcing them
| to get a job will likely not work, but if theyre just soft
| getting them a job where they work with others is a great way to
| foster social intelligence.
|
| TLDR: If theyre from a rough and emotionally neglected
| background, be tender and encourage growth. If theyre from an
| easygoing and supportive background, be harsh and force them to
| grow.
| braingenious wrote:
| Just to make sure that I have this straight: The parent didn't
| know how to successfully influence this individual, you also
| don't know how to influence this individual, so you're appealing
| to strangers on the internet for advice about how to forcibly
| change an adult's behavior?
|
| I doubt you're going to find any truly applicable advice about
| forcing this person to behave the way you want them to here.
| You're talking about _an individual human adult_ , not some
| theoretical cookie cutter "18 year old."
|
| > The parent has tried locking the computer in a different
| room...
|
| This is the strategy that I use to keep my cat from eating all of
| his treats. I have never considered treating a human adult in
| such an infantilizing way.
|
| Considering the fact that you're playing a game of internet
| telephone to figure out how to modify behavior that you don't
| like, I'd suggest helping this adult get away from his or her
| parents.
|
| Or at the very least, ask yourself why you are fixated on this
| particular behavior and why you feel entitled to eliminate it.
| You _didn't_ ask "How can I help make this person happier or more
| successful?" or "How can I improve communication with this
| person?", you asked "How do I stamp out this behavior that my
| relative finds distasteful?"
|
| If your family member boils their relationship problem with their
| child down to a single negative behavior, it's likely that there
| is a mutual disdain that's _much, MUCH_ worse than gaming. If the
| parent isn't interested in addressing underlying issues, then the
| solution is to help that adult to move out!
| 1123581321 wrote:
| Asking the Internet for ideas can work when the respondents can
| suggest new things or approaches, and the asker can evaluate
| their usefulness in light of their contextual knowledge of
| their situation.
| millzlane wrote:
| Start with wifi. It's 30 bucks a week to use. Tell them it starts
| in two weeks. That will give them enough time to make 20 bucks
| for wifi use.
|
| Start shutting off wifi during the 9-5 hours.
| josephcsible wrote:
| You want to charge your kids more to share your Internet
| connection than it would cost for them to buy dedicated ones of
| their own, and then you'd add insult to injury by not giving
| them full use of what they're paying for?
| softcactus wrote:
| Is the relationship with the parents good? If yes then maybe try
| taking him to the gym, going camping/on a hike etc. Once you
| realize that you can get dopamine from sources other than a
| screen it becomes easier to break that cycle of addiction.
|
| The actual root cause to me sounds like lack of fulfillment or
| maybe social anxiety. You can't just take away the computer if
| you don't have anything to replace it with.
| fiftyfifty wrote:
| When my 3 kids were teenagers (though younger than 18) I had an
| Asus Router that had pretty good access controls, I assume most
| Asus Routers still have the same controls. You could actually
| limit internet access by MAC address to certain times of day. For
| all of my kids' devices (phones, video game consoles, computers)
| I found their MAC address in the table in the router management
| website and limited the devices internet access to just a couple
| of hours a day that we agreed the kids could have screen time.
| For the most part it was easy enough to figure out which device
| was which, for a couple I had to do a little experimenting like
| just cutting off MAC addresses while they were playing a game
| until I heard yelling (;
|
| I agree with the sentiment here that this is no substitute for
| parenting and having an actual conversation with your kids. But
| it is a tool that you can use to enforce you're rules. I caught
| my boys on multiple occasions playing video games late on school
| nights after we had gone to bed, and this was after we had
| discussed with them not playing games on school nights. Shutting
| down their internet access at the router put an end to the
| problem and grades came back up fairly quickly after that.
| kaz-inc wrote:
| Get them into programming. I spent hours a day on the computer
| playing games when I was 18, then I got into programming. Making
| games is more fun than playing them, I only worry I forget what
| fun means to my audience.
|
| Instead of criticizing what your kid is doing on the computer,
| spend time engaging with them and participate in their hobbies
| with them. At 18, the kid will leave the house soon, and if you
| have things to talk about/do together over the internet, you
| might have a better relationship with your child.
| elzbardico wrote:
| No. Should have done this years before when kid was an actual
| kid, not a young adult.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| 18yo is an adult who can tell you to pound sand.
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