[HN Gopher] Google Kubernetes Engine adds support for Arm nodes
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       Google Kubernetes Engine adds support for Arm nodes
        
       Author : crb
       Score  : 96 points
       Date   : 2022-07-13 16:59 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cloud.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cloud.google.com)
        
       | Aissen wrote:
       | Pricing is in line with the cloud: expensive. That's it, they
       | made it: now Arm servers are mainstream.
        
         | runlevel1 wrote:
         | Dell and HP are still nowhere to be seen in the on-prem Arm
         | server market. Is there not enough of a cost advantage for
         | there to be demand?
        
         | mathnode wrote:
         | I am very ignorant of the current ARM cloud offerings. Is it
         | similar prices but less power usage? Or have they had to ramp
         | up the watts to compete?
        
           | justizin wrote:
           | not sure about pricing here, but graviton on aws has
           | generally offered more performance at a lower price point,
           | which is likely linked to lower power usage and perhaps lower
           | cost of custom silicon vs intel.
           | 
           | the notion, "the cloud is expensive", ignores the fact that
           | the cloud is not just rented hardware, but staff, facilities,
           | planning, management, etc..
           | 
           | there are businesses where it makes more sense to own
           | hardware and employ your own staff, but if you just want
           | generic compute and storage, you're unlikely to do it as well
           | for less.
           | 
           | also you cannot easily source arm hardware commercially,
           | there is the honeycomb lx2, and its' lead time is _months_
           | for a single unit. if you want hundreds of nodes, you 're
           | gonna use a cloud provider who manufactures their own
           | silicon.
        
             | goodpoint wrote:
             | > the notion, "the cloud is expensive", ignores the fact
             | that the cloud is not just rented hardware, but staff,
             | facilities, planning, management, etc..
             | 
             | Not at all. Any organization that runs its datacenters can
             | calculate a TCO.
             | 
             | It's really business 101.
        
             | vbezhenar wrote:
             | > you cannot easily source arm hardware commercially
             | 
             | Buy Mac Minis and run virtual linux inside?
        
               | api wrote:
               | You can (in theory) run Linux straight on Apple Silicon.
               | It's not locked like the iPad and iPhone. The M1 Ultra
               | would be a pretty solid high volume server if you can
               | manage to plug a 10-40gbps LAN dongle into it. I believe
               | USB-C and/or thunderbolt connectors like that exist.
               | 
               | In theory so far because I'm not sure if there are mature
               | installers and such yet.
        
               | dochtman wrote:
               | The Asahi Linux installer worked flawlessly on my MacBook
               | Pro M1 Max, though it asks you to do some low level
               | things like repartitioning the drive.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | I've been passively curious about this for a homelab--
               | does linux virtualize on apple silicon today? I was of
               | the impression this didn't work when they announced m1 in
               | 2020, but I could be misremembering.
        
               | vbezhenar wrote:
               | Absolutely. It worked from day one. There are issues with
               | emulating x86 Linux, but that's a different story. For
               | ARM Linux -- just ordinary qemu works fine.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | Oh, interesting. That's great to hear!
        
         | jonatron wrote:
         | I always found the CPU pricing of cloud to be relatively
         | reasonable. It's everything else that's expensive, and egress
         | bandwidth just ridiculous.
        
           | dilyevsky wrote:
           | Meh cpus/ram most likely have lighter margins for cloud
           | vendors compared to storage and bandwidth (which is just
           | ridiculous) but they have to keep a lot of spare capacity for
           | scaling so if you don't scale by much you can do way better
           | on metal even on cpus
        
           | api wrote:
           | Typical cloud bandwidth pricing is known as "roach motel
           | pricing" after the old roach motel pest control slogan of
           | "roaches check in but they never check out." The idea is to
           | make ingress free but egress expensive to make it easy to
           | move all your data in but costly and hard to move it out.
        
       | Klasiaster wrote:
       | It's quite light on details: What properties does the
       | (virtualized) ARM CPU that one gets have? Can it do KVM itself
       | (meaning the underlying real CPU has support for nested KVM)? Can
       | it do ARMv8.3 pointer authentication?
        
         | my123 wrote:
         | It's an Ampere Altra for those first instances. So no on both.
        
           | Klasiaster wrote:
           | They could have named Ampere and give credit to them, I think
           | it's common in cloud instance offerings to have AMD or Intel
           | also being named as underlying physical CPUs, even with the
           | generation.
        
             | milesward wrote:
             | They did in the docs, 2nd paragraph of the blog post, etc
             | 
             | https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/compute/tau-t2a-is-
             | fi...
        
               | Klasiaster wrote:
               | Thanks, yes, makes sense to look at the GCE announcement
               | instead of the GKE announcement for this info.
        
         | bogomipz wrote:
         | I'd be curious to hear what the use case is for nested KVM.
         | What hardware support is required for that as well?
        
           | vocram wrote:
           | The instance exposed by GCE is virtualized. If you want to
           | run any hw virtualized workload inside it, you need nested
           | virtualization.
        
             | bogomipz wrote:
             | I'd be curious to hear about your Kubernetes workloads.
             | Generally the reason people run VMs with Kubernetes is for
             | security. If GKE is providing you with a Kubernetes worker
             | node that is running in an ARM VM why would you not just
             | run a regular pod on it?
        
       | FooBarWidget wrote:
       | Great. Hopefully Azure is next, so we can get ARM Github Actions
       | runners on which I can build ARM binaries. I can already do it
       | with qemu-user but it's slow.
        
         | cagataygurturk wrote:
         | You can already self-host GH Runners on ARM.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | What kind of ARM machine should I buy if I want to self-host
           | an ARM server? My not-that-recent look at the market shows
           | everyone kind of doing their own thing; Amazon makes Amazon's
           | ARM servers, Apple makes Apple's ARM chips, etc. As some
           | random guy who wants to test on ARM, it's annoying. Maybe
           | things have improved recently, though?
           | 
           | (I'm guessing self-host realistically means "get a VM on
           | AWS", which is probably fine for CI if you already use AWS. A
           | little annoying to have another monthly bill to pay if you
           | don't, though.)
        
           | FooBarWidget wrote:
           | The point is to not have to self-host. It costs money, is a
           | pain because maintenance is required, and there are security
           | issues with running CI for public pull requests.
        
       | wmf wrote:
       | People would probably be more interested in the underlying Google
       | Cloud ARM announcement:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32084887
        
         | milesward wrote:
         | Yup, my team did a little copy-paste lab if folks want to kick
         | the tires: https://github.com/sadasystems/gke-multiarch-guide
        
           | Cidan wrote:
           | Also, the PM's are going to do an AMA for this on reddit
           | tomorrow:
           | 
           | https://www.reddit.com/r/googlecloud/comments/vy8hx3/ama_wit.
           | ..
           | 
           | Come join us! Also, hi Moles :)
        
       | markdog12 wrote:
       | Looks like it's only available in NA central for now, boooo:
       | https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/regions-zones#availabl...
        
         | milesward wrote:
         | Where did you want it?
        
           | BillinghamJ wrote:
           | In every zone, obviously. AWS has had widespread ARM support
           | for many years.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-13 23:01 UTC)