[HN Gopher] Teams is killing my Mac every day
___________________________________________________________________
Teams is killing my Mac every day
Author : sogen
Score : 335 points
Date : 2022-07-13 15:27 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (techcommunity.microsoft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (techcommunity.microsoft.com)
| hurril wrote:
| It's an incredible piece of crap on an M1 Max too. It's by far
| the heaviest piece of software I run on it, and that's counting
| games and heavy Scala and F# development. A flippin video chat :)
|
| Slack, which is also an incredible pos, feels snappy and
| lightweight in comparison.
| lostlogin wrote:
| > A flippin video chat
|
| The video chat is less terrible than it's worst parts. Managing
| documents through it is just gross.
| hurril wrote:
| Didn't even know that was possible. But yes: huddling and
| sharing screens in slack actually deserves some credit
| because that always works well. (Jesus C. - I just gave
| software credit for working.)
|
| In my mind Slack does not add one iota to mIRC 4.5 (?) which
| fit a single 1.44M diskette and came as a single executable.
| That shit started before the MouseUp event was even fired on
| pre-pentium hardware. What in the name of something holy
| happened?
| prepend wrote:
| Whoever thought that I'd want to edit a word doc in a frame
| in teams is insane. I'm not sure the use case where anyone
| wants to do that rather than launch Word or launch a browser.
|
| It's so dumb as it has a limited subset of functionality and
| takes over my screen from a meeting and only opens one
| document at a time.
|
| That and if I try to link to a document it links to opening
| the document in teams. It's so bizarre.
|
| I can't imagine the Teams team dogfooding Teams. Or perhaps I
| can and it's some schizophrenic bizarre group who thinks it's
| all intuitive.
|
| It kind of reminds me of how crazy the Steam client is with
| it's crappy browser stuff. But at least they have links
| working properly.
| thecrumb wrote:
| I believe it's using Sharepoint behind the scenes, so yeah...
| gross.
| michelb wrote:
| Are you running the apple silicon version? Still beta i think.
| It's a whole lot better.
| ragebol wrote:
| I really don't understand why Teams is so frikkin' popular.
|
| Anyone who ever used something else than Teams before the
| pandemic knows how bad a chat app it is, but since eg. management
| folk never used that stuff before the pandemic but now had to
| also WFH, they already had Teams from day 1 (M$ pre-installs it I
| guess, Linux-only guy here), so they forced that horseshit on
| everyone.
|
| There really is no other excuse for it being the default in many
| cases these days. But it's absolute terrible.
|
| /rant
| Turbots wrote:
| cbtacy wrote:
| I'm going to argue that Teams has replaced Powerpoint as my most
| hated MS software product.
|
| The only way I now use Teams is from the browser. And even then,
| as others have said, I keep a prepared Zoom link ready in case
| everything goes to s*t.
| geodel wrote:
| Once I used Microsoft Office lens on iPhone for scanning some
| documents. It was absolutely confusing to use for a multipage
| document. It took me ages to figure out. After finishing that
| 10-12 page document, I had to upload on a HR website. However ,
| it failed as total scan size was like ~100MB so above size limit.
| So I had to rescan whole thing with notes app in iPhone which
| finished in few min with only ~10MB of scanned document.
|
| Sure, there would be a detailed 100 pages of document on how to
| properly use it. But as a normal user I found it stunningly
| crappy, confusing and inefficient for my usage.
| bedast wrote:
| At my previous job, I despised using Teams. I know, we're not
| supposed to be multitasking during meetings, but Teams harmed the
| performance of my computer so much during meetings that I was
| forced to focus on them. Heaven forbid if I had to be presenting
| (had to turn off incoming video for this to even be at all
| usable)! And, of course, one should assume if it's dragging
| performance down, that means the fans are going full speed the
| entire time. I have sensitive hearing, so I had to apply a power
| profile that turned down the fans without the computer
| overheating, which means lowering performance and making the
| Teams performance vampire worse.
|
| And this wasn't on a mac. This is not a mac only issue.
|
| I was so glad to learn my new job uses Slack, instead. It has its
| own set of problems, but it doesn't try to kill my computer.
| hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
| Tangentially related but Teams also bricked my phone.
|
| Long story short: I didn't want to run Teams on my laptop as it
| was draining the battery super-fast, and I didn't want to install
| a work account on my private phone either, so I bought a cheap
| Chinese phone just for teams. It worked fine for 6 months just
| getting warmer a bit during meetings. But then I had a marathon
| of 3 meetings one after another and at some point it turned off
| and never turned on again. I bought another phone but now I make
| sure to turn incoming video off during calls.
| visionscaper wrote:
| Only tangentially related; why is Teams removing space
| indentations in chats on MacOS? It's so annoying when you type a
| piece of (pseudo) code, all leading spaces are removed! It drives
| me nuts, why would anyone implement this!
| hbn wrote:
| It's been doing that for a while, and I don't think it used to.
| I can't imagine it's intentional. Pasting formatted/styled text
| into Teams always ends up outputting some butchered version of
| what it originally was.
| Pbhaskal wrote:
| Correct. It happens in my windows 10 too. It messes all yaml
| content.
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I think I still haven't found a message/phone/video app that
| works.
|
| Skype is extremely buggy (crashes, freezes, regular ui bugs,
| loses conversations, etc). Teams is a resource hog, and is hard
| to search. Symphony is great for chat, but unpleasant for phone
| calls.
|
| I'm a bit surprised, since I'd expect it to be a solved problem.
|
| Any suggestions?
| infinityplus1 wrote:
| Google Chat and Meet as well as Slack just work fine for us.
| kroltan wrote:
| I've had a good experience with Discord. At work we use it as
| our primary voice communication software, and it hardly ever
| has issues with audio quality. Screen sharing is also
| configurable, which is good as you can better decide where your
| bitrate goes.
|
| Sure, it's still Electron, but as far as Electron apps go, it's
| pretty responsive. Uses about 500MB RAM even on my personal
| account with literally hundreds of joined communities, some of
| them with thousands to tens of thousands of members.
|
| It also doesn't drop notifications and the read indicators are
| not insane.
|
| I still prefer Slack's text chat for business use, mainly
| because threads are frictionless to create, while on Discord
| they are more like "temporary sub-channels" where you still
| need to give them titles. But it's otherwise pretty good, and
| it has GFM-style highlighted code formatting.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| For me (2019 16-inch MBP, i9, 64 GB RAM) Teams in _normal_
| operations is no problem... but for some reason, when involved in
| large video calls, it will hog the dGPU during the call (probably
| for transcoding the streams) but not release it, which makes the
| battery go empty faster than a Porsche 's tank on a German
| highway...
|
| If you ever notice blaring fans after a video call, open Activity
| Monitor and check if the GPU indicator in the Energy tab says
| High Performance or Integrated, and if the former, sort by "GPU"
| column to see which app is hogging it.
| garren wrote:
| I ran into something similar. 2019 15" MBP, i9, 16gb
|
| Video calls while using an external monitor (40" Dell),
| particularly when screen sharing, dramatically slow the machine
| down. Enough to render it unusable during the call and for a
| little while afterwards. Not an issue I recall hitting in Zoom
| or WebEx.
|
| I disconnect my external monitor while taking Teams calls now.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| The reason may be having a second screen attached. As soon as
| you have, the Macbook will _always_ enable the dGPU -
| probably because Apple saved a couple dozen bucks for a
| displayport matrix chip so that the TB controllers ' DP
| inputs could also be served by the iGPU.
| dunham wrote:
| For me, on an intel mac, the issue is overheating. The CPU will
| throttle down to about 25% once it gets to hot and everything
| gets laggy/janky. Teams seems to crank stuff up enough to trigger
| this.
|
| I've found that disconnecting the external monitor helps. (I'm
| guessing additional heat from the discrete GPU is part of the
| problem, but that is just a guess.) Probably wouldn't hurt to
| clean out the fans too.
|
| For my non-work laptop that had performance issues while hot (for
| non-teams reasons), I resolved the issue by buying an M1.
| sliken wrote:
| Does teams use more CPU/Ram resources than it should ...
| definitely.
|
| Does the Apple MBP i9 laptops have terrible performance under
| load ... definitely.
|
| Any number of things (compiling, crashplan backups, video conf
| teams/zoom/bluejean, etc) causes the CPU load to spike, the
| laptop to get too hot, fans spin up loudly, and huge thermal
| throttling that continues until the system is idle for awhile.
|
| Seems like about half the blame is Apple's.
| dkonofalski wrote:
| I think this is all on Microsoft's shoulders. I have an M1 Max
| machine, an i9 machine and a PC with an i7 and Teams runs
| equally horribly on all platforms. I would say that I have
| "less" issues on the M1 Max but I don't think it has anything
| to do with the machine itself other than it's more powerful
| than the others so can handle it.
| droopyEyelids wrote:
| Should a video chat client, running on a computer with hardware
| video encoders, make the computer work as hard as compelling
| software, or scanning compressing and transmitting the entire
| hard drive?
| cyberge99 wrote:
| No. I'm on a state of the art M1 Max and it takes 20-30 seconds
| to start Teams. About 15-30 seconds to join a meeting. On my
| intel mbp it was even worse.
|
| Any other app loads near instantly (aside from Affinity Photo,
| which I expect).
|
| If there's a fault in Teams for Mac it's either due to
| incompetent design/implementation or maliciousness.
| Kaze404 wrote:
| I think I've mentioned this 5 times before on this website, but
| on Linux Teams will keep recording your microphone after you
| leave a meeting (which is easily verifiable through pavucontrol).
| In the year and a half that I worked at a company using Teams,
| this was always the case. The only way to make it stop is to
| restart the process.
| desindol wrote:
| Deactivate the ultrasonic sensing for meeting equipment and you
| are good...
| flir wrote:
| The answer: Two macs, and Universal Control. (You think I'm
| joking... you should see my desk)
| ngrilly wrote:
| Happened today again on my Mac. Had to kill Teams twice.
| lizardactivist wrote:
| I have similar problems with all the popular apps for video and
| voice chat: Zoom, Teams, Discord.
|
| There is something very peculiar about it: I can have these apps
| running with literally no voice or video activity and all costly
| noise filters turned off, and while the CPU moves between 5-10%
| (which is still outrageous when nothing is happening), the fan
| will be running at max, and the battery drains fast.
|
| There is nothing else hogging the CPU, GPU, network etc. in the
| system, as the process explorer clearly indicates, so there is no
| reason for the fan and battery to do this.
|
| I keep concluding that there is some hidden process running in
| the system that causes this, and while I can never prove this,
| based on some thoughts and discussions by others, and the fact
| that it happens with video and voice chats, we suspect that
| advanced analysis on the audio input (voice analysis) is being
| done whenever the mic is turned on.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| >MacBook Pro 16" i9 with 16GB RAM every day. This was supposed to
| be the most kick-a$$ laptop at the time
|
| Firstly that entire era of MacBooks is hot garbage, literally.
| The case can't handle the heat the processor creates. Even for
| basic tasks they all sucked and were probably the poorest
| performing Macs in multiple decades.
|
| But here's the real issue, end of the day there is no incentive
| for devs to build proper performant Mac apps anymore. The sheer
| cost and team required to ship one of these natively as well as
| on top of the iPhone and iPad apps which again require custom
| work each is absurd compared to just shipping a chrome wrapper
| that doesn't seem to impact the success of an app at all, hard to
| name a popular Mac app these days that isn't just a chromium
| wrapper, outside of video/audio/3D software.
| windowsrookie wrote:
| I hear this all the time, but my 15" 2018 i7 model has been
| great. The 16" i9 models in particular seem to have the most
| complaints. Not sure what went wrong with those models.
| hu3 wrote:
| This is what I don't understand.
|
| MacBooks, which are frequently advertised as being "the
| greatest ever", run Teams so poorly while mediocre Windows and
| Linux laptops barely feel Teams running.
|
| I write this from a client-issued $1000 Windows laptop that is
| running a ton of crap plus Teams with no fan sound to be heard.
| While the Intel MacBook next to me is screaming from just a few
| browser tabs and slack.
| astrange wrote:
| A browser tab and "just" shouldn't appear in the same
| sentence, any given browser tab is running a large piece of
| complex software written entirely in JavaScript with no
| performance testing.
| hu3 wrote:
| I just checked the tabs. 2 google searches, 4 stack
| overflow, spotify, azure devops git repo with a medium
| sized file opened. None of which are CPU intensive
| according to Chrome task manager.
|
| So yes, they are "just" some tabs.
|
| Intel macs are notorious for being literal hot screamers. I
| read similar complains frequently on HN.
| parentheses wrote:
| The solution use their product to run this software in the
| cloud.
| mouzogu wrote:
| >This was supposed to be the most kick-a$$ laptop at the time
|
| cry me a river, post comes across kind of entitled.
|
| I used this MS bloatware app on a 2015 macbook and it runs ok,
| no worse than slack at least - but I'm 2 Os's behind.
| pawelduda wrote:
| At one point I thought slack is bad, until I worked for a company
| that used teams. Never again!
| jasoneckert wrote:
| If you don't want to use the Microsoft Teams app (which uses a
| lot of resources), you can:
|
| 1. Install the Microsoft Edge Web browser on your Mac
|
| 2. Log into https://teams.microsoft.com
|
| 3. Click ... > Apps > Install this site as an app
|
| This will create an Edge app for Teams that uses almost no
| resources but has feature parity with the regular Microsoft Teams
| app.
|
| We tell all of our students to do this, and it has solved all
| Microsoft Teams performance issues on student Macs (both Intel
| and Apple Silicon).
| animesh wrote:
| I did this, but the problem was that I never got any
| notifications. I did not block notifications at all, but I got
| little to no notifications especially for when meetings
| started. I had to revert to full app because of this.
| winston_bruce wrote:
| I just tried this as well, didn't work at first but I enabled
| notifications when it prompted me & now appears to have
| worked (once at least).
|
| Any idea how to get notification badges to work (if
| possible)?
| mmis1000 wrote:
| Messing around the edge://flags to toggle native
| notification on or off, I remembered that the default
| notification mode has bug currently. Also ensure you grant
| it permission of notification in system setting. That isn't
| done by default.
| winston_bruce wrote:
| Thank you! I checked windows system notifications & it
| looks like edge notifications were already enabled but I
| did need to turn on the teams.microsoft.com notifications
| in edge.
| solarkraft wrote:
| This also works with Chrome. I would recommend using that to at
| least have slight vendor diversity (did you know that Microsoft
| likes to EEE?).
| babypuncher wrote:
| If you are actually worried about diversity then Edge and
| Chrome are no different. Both contribute to the Blink
| monoculture.
|
| If we want to split hairs then Edge is slightly better purely
| because it doesn't have the same 65% market share as Chrome.
| harha wrote:
| One note on that: last time I tried installing edge it asked me
| to enter my password, which I find unnecessary.
| obert wrote:
| it's optional to sync your settings across devices, not
| mandatory
| harha wrote:
| See step 8 on the installation instructions [0], the
| installer prompts the password, I don't recall firefox or
| chromium requiring that.
|
| [0]: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-
| us/microsoftedge/forum/all/...
| sogen wrote:
| Thanks! I made the HN submit link because I was looking for
| solutions to the performance, greatly appreciated, downloading.
| goodfight wrote:
| You are my hero!
| k6hkUZtLUM wrote:
| This tip is gold. I had no idea Edge had this feature on Mac. I
| have used a variety of other tools in the past to create
| website "apps". Thanks!
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Also possible with Chrome.
| dstroot wrote:
| How?
| rictic wrote:
| Hot dog menu -> More tools -> Create Shortcut -> check
| the "Open as Window" checkbox
|
| For PWAs (web apps that do additional things to make them
| work more like apps) there may also be a simpler install
| button in the url bar itself
| xeromal wrote:
| Just check out the little button in the address bar on
| the right.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| Since we're on this topic: Up until a few weeks ago I swear
| when I got an invitation link and opened it in Firefox I could
| just join with the browser. Then two weeks ago it forced me to
| download the app for linux, no way to join with the browser.
|
| Is there any workaround for that? Faking the user agent? I
| didn't have the time then to grab an extension and start
| fiddling around, so I just spun up a VM and installed the
| app...
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| And you can have multiple windows.
| peppertree wrote:
| Nice. Fight cancer with cancer.
| hjek wrote:
| Yea, or just use a Firefox add-on[0] to change the user-agent
| to Edge for the Teams web app
|
| [0]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/teams-
| phone-f...
|
| (or even better, don't use Teams at all, obviously)
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| This is great especially because there is still no M1 version
| of teams and running the Intel version of teams on M1 makes the
| whole computer slow to a crawl.
|
| But, at this point, I have to wonder if teams is just
| abandonware. Stuff like this thread and the lack of M1 support
| 2.5 years after the M1 transition was announced and over a year
| after you could walk into an apple store and buy an M1
| computer? I don't understand what could prevent them from
| releasing an M1 version besides a complete lack of will to do
| so.
| haxxorfreak wrote:
| If you're running an Apple Silicon Mac you can get an early
| build of Teams osx-arm64 from the exploration build link
| listed here.[0]
|
| I've been running a daily build for a few weeks and it's
| noticeably better than the Intel build on an M1 Pro. It
| launches in half the time and feels far more responsive
| (probably due to not needing to use the Rosetta JIT for
| Electron). That said it's still a daily "exploration" build
| so YMMV.
|
| [0] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/ItzLevvie/MicrosoftTeam
| s-m...
| [deleted]
| jshier wrote:
| How do you prevent it from automatically updating to the
| Intel version? I keep downloading the preview builds and
| they keep getting updated.
| SpaghettiX wrote:
| Maybe try to delete the launch agent
| (`com.microsoft.update.agent.plist` in
| `/Library/LaunchAgents`)
|
| and launch daemon
| (`com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist` in
| `/Library/LaunchDaemons`)
| bigtex wrote:
| Can confirm it is snappier on a M1 Macbook Pro and using *
| _less*_ RAM, maybe about 10% less.
| btgeekboy wrote:
| Given how hard MS has been pushing RTO, and how unlikely they
| are to be Mac users, I wouldn't be surprised if they just
| don't feel the pain like everyone else and therefore don't
| care.
| dallasg3 wrote:
| RTO = Return to Office ?
| thecrumb wrote:
| Looks at Teams on Linux... yeah... abandonware
| bradwood wrote:
| Abandon suggests it might have been half-way decent to
| start with.
|
| This was a pile of steaming shit from the get-go.
| solarkraft wrote:
| Almost all Microsoft software feels like abandonware, which
| is wild when you consider how heavily they're promoting and
| profiting from it and how many and how heavily people use it.
| AdamJacobMuller wrote:
| I use excel/word daily and they work great on my M1 mac and
| feel modern.
| m463 wrote:
| Do you mean a mac version?
|
| Honestly just having microsoft software adhere to apple
| human interface guidelines and the menu system improves
| it infinity percent ([?]%)
|
| Using office360 is a confusing jumbled mess.
|
| I can't help but think it's on purpose.
|
| I remember talking to an ex-microsoft guy decades ago
| about some incompatibility with some third party thing. I
| said sometimes new engineers didn't know how their
| software would be used or interact with other stuff. He
| told me not to be naive. Microsoft had meetings trying to
| figure out "how can we own this?"
| uoaei wrote:
| My Win10 laptop has started shutting off the WLAN device at
| the worst times, and it seems to happen when a Bluetooth
| mouse is connected and a battery charger is plugged in at
| the same time.
|
| The troubleshooter and report forms both crash on opening.
|
| I guess that's one way to hit a "zero negative feedback"
| KPI!
| Aloha wrote:
| The symptoms (aside from the feedback reporter issue)
| likely point at a hardware issue with the underlying
| machine, and probably not a software bug.
| peteradio wrote:
| I've had WLAN shutoffs related to drivers, would you
| consider that hardware or software? Are you thinking
| power droops or what's the hardware history of WLAN
| shutoffs look like?
| Aloha wrote:
| I'm suspecting a power issue and that the internal WLAN
| and Bluetooth device are likely on the same USB root hub.
| Have you checked the manufacturer for newer USB drivers?
| lordnacho wrote:
| Isn't it precisely when they can do that that you know it's
| a good business?
| etempleton wrote:
| I agree, I know it isn't new with Microsoft, but they sure
| do consistently release slow buggy software. It would seem
| that a company as large of Microsoft could get ahead of the
| issue, but perhaps it their size and beurocracy actually
| make it harder to quality control.
| clem wrote:
| I think a lot of their products are only held together by
| the hopes and dreams of their sales department.
| thatfunkymunki wrote:
| I've had nothing but negative experiences with Microsoft
| and their products on macOS. Unsurprisingly, dealing with
| their "support engineers" is maybe even more frustrating
| than using a macOS device that is infected with their
| software.
|
| Speaking as an experienced person when dealing with M365
| products in our fleet, I absolutely, 100%, cannot, in
| good conscience recommend for any company that supports
| macOS devices to purchase or use any Microsoft products.
| There is simply no amount of money you can pay (I'm
| fairly certain we have one of the highest license tiers)
| in order to get any assurance that you will get any
| meaningful functionality or support from them.
| twoquestions wrote:
| Can you still share your screen with this version?
| twoquestions wrote:
| Took me a minute to set up a test meeting, but it looks like
| you can!
| jasoneckert wrote:
| Yes
| abujazar wrote:
| It <<works>>, but still takes up a lot of resources (gigabytes
| of RAM and a whole CPU core while in video meetings),and
| depending on sso policies might require you to sign in several
| times a day. It's also limited to four video streams.
| deltarholamda wrote:
| Very nice tip. I've filed this away in my brain for later. Many
| thanks!
| nostromo wrote:
| The Teams webapp is hot garbage though. On video you can't even
| see all the participants. It's years behind Google Meet and
| Zoom.
| spicybright wrote:
| It's the same for the desktop version. Not being able to see
| everyone is egregious.
| DHPersonal wrote:
| I think it's meant to save on bandwidth/resources by only
| showing the "speaking" video feeds.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| It's most likely still receiving all feeds in the
| background though.
| DHPersonal wrote:
| You may be right. I don't know how it works. I've noticed
| that when a new video-enabled user shows up on the
| screen, there is a delay between the user profile showing
| and the video overlay presenting itself, so I was
| assuming that was where a stream was being started for
| that video feed.
| pvorb wrote:
| It's somehow still using more bandwidth than Google Meet
| with the same number of video streams.
| chazeon wrote:
| Notion is also better as an Edge App than its own standalone
| app.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Forgive my ignorance, but what makes these apps practically
| different from say, a bookmark?
|
| I find it hard to conceptualize these apps as little more than
| your browser, but ever so slightly more pointed
| slantyyz wrote:
| They are just a bookmark, but on Windows, they become a first
| class citizen on your task bar.
|
| If you are the type to have a ton of tabs open across many
| windows, this also makes the "app" easier to spot.
|
| You can also pin the app to the taskbar and have it launch
| with Windows.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Ah I see, thank you!
| vel0city wrote:
| Continuing on with what the other poster said, when run as an
| "app" it then also eliminates the regular address bar and
| other buttons that are common on a full web browser so it
| "feels" more like a native app. There's also metadata that
| the app can use to add to the "jump list" feature of the
| Windows taskbar. You can then also get added as a target to
| "share" on Windows. There's a number of features that you get
| access to as an installed PWA at least on Windows compared to
| just being a webpage in the browser.
| gerdesj wrote:
| I quietly use Teams every day. I'm not a particular fan of it
| but it doesn't get in my way more than an Electron splash at
| boot and an ugly purple icon at bottom right. This is on a
| rather elderly HPE laptop - dmidecode says: "HP 250 G6 Notebook
| PC"
|
| I used to have audio snags with it but those went away and I
| migrated to pipewire about 12 months ago and the audio quality
| has improved.
|
| I do lack some "features" like background blurring etc but I
| note that BBB manages to do it fine.
|
| It does look like there is a lack of love for Team on Linux but
| it sounds like the third class citizen is Mac.
| klipklop wrote:
| > 1. Install the Microsoft Edge Web browser on your Mac
|
| You had me up until here. It is pretty amazing how slow
| "modern" chat apps run.
| gnicholas wrote:
| What features does this allow that aren't available if you just
| use the website via FF/Brave?
| Foivos wrote:
| When I tried to do the same, it complained about lack of
| features on browsers other than edge, without specifying
| anything.
| fnord123 wrote:
| Teams doesn't work with Firefox on Linux or macos. You need
| chrome or chromium. Brave probably works.
| uselpa wrote:
| On macOS Teams audio does work in calls, but video does
| not.
| solvitor wrote:
| I do this on a Pixelbook (Linux version of Edge). Works quite
| well for all of Office 365, for me.
| hank_z wrote:
| You can allow cross-site tracking and third party cookie in
| safari, then use teams from safari. I have been using it this
| way without any issues for all my Teams meetings.
| gambiting wrote:
| Teams is hands down the worst piece of software I have used in my
| entire career. Not just because it's slow and resource heavy -
| the amount of bugs, idiotic design decisions, artificial
| restrictions and the constant wheel of changing features without
| giving the user any choice or say about any of them.....it all
| adds up. It's just an awful awful awful product.
| P_I_Staker wrote:
| I'm amazed by the extreme high quality of software that you've
| worked with. It doesn't come close to cracking any list for me.
| Tbh, I find it quite usable, with lots of useful features, and
| I can mostly count on it.
|
| It really doesn't do anything especially bad IME. Teams on Mac
| just doesn't work at all. It's astonishing.
| jiggawatts wrote:
| You're on the "happy path".
|
| A lot of Microsoft software is like this, where they imagined
| one type of user and for them the product is great..
|
| E.g.: Teams is okay for Project Managers permanently employed
| at some (single) mega corp.
|
| For consultant developers switching between many clients,
| it's a trash fire.
|
| Both scenarios should work well, but Microsoft simply ignored
| the second case.
|
| Why? Because it was designed by... PMs working at a single
| mega corp: Microsoft.
| borissk wrote:
| Memory is so cheap nowadays. 64GB laptop memory on NewEgg are
| $149.99. Surely a very easy investment for anyone working in a
| company that uses Teams. Just refuse to buy laptops with non-
| upgradable memory.
|
| Having 64GB will solve all performance problems with Teams and
| other Electron apps.
| gpderetta wrote:
| This must be sarcasm, right?
|
| 64 GB for a glorified IRC chat...
| simplyinfinity wrote:
| I would like to see you present and video chat to 100+ people
| on irc.
| int_19h wrote:
| For a couple years, until it becomes the new norm, and devs
| will assume that now they can ignore even more perf issues.
| borissk wrote:
| So you think stuff like C, C++, Java, Python, etc. should not
| exist and all code should be written in assembler?
| int_19h wrote:
| Writing stuff in C or C++ doesn't give you substantial perf
| benefits over assembler in most cases, so they don't belong
| to this list.
|
| That aside, no, I don't think we shouldn't be using higher-
| level abstractions. The problem is that we're using them
| without any consideration of performance impact at all, and
| increasingly without consideration of the actual
| cost/benefit ratio from developer perspective. For that
| matter, at some point, if you keep piling abstractions on,
| the amount of leakage from them all the way to the top
| layer is a tax on the developer operating on that layer -
| and that tax can, at some point, exceed the purported
| benefits of the abstraction.
|
| Do we _really_ need to package a browser with every app
| just to make it easy to do (horribly designed more often
| than not) cross-platform UI? Or is it just the most
| expedient hack to avoid having to solve that problem
| properly?
| Nextgrid wrote:
| It's also a pile of shit CPU-wise when trying to actually _do_
| anything with it, so lots of memory alone wouldn 't help.
| borissk wrote:
| You may be right, but that's not my experience. Chrome is
| very fast on modern CPUs if it doesn't have to use a swap
| file.
| chinabot wrote:
| Give the developers Corei3/8GB Laptops, I'm sure the next
| version would improve dramatically
| borissk wrote:
| You may be up to something. The best video player I've used
| was Crystal Player - the developer used an old Pentium
| machine.
| astrange wrote:
| "Video player" developers don't do any of the actual hard
| work, they just use ffmpeg, so it doesn't matter how
| virtuous they personally are.
| mulderc wrote:
| When I need to use Teams I just have it on my iPad and use
| universal control. My iPad basically turns into a Teams terminal
| during certain hours of the day.
| smoldesu wrote:
| They're using an i9 16" Macbook Pro. I don't mean to split hairs
| here, but if there's a single modern Mac advocate who will say
| that it's not a hardware issue then I suggest idling one of those
| machines with Safari open. You'll have no problem rocketing past
| 45c with barely anything open!
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Every _laptop_ I 've used runs far above 45C. As far as I can
| tell, Laptops are expected to run around 60-80C.
|
| My Intel Mac Laptops frequently go into the 90C range. As far
| as I've been able to tell, that's expected. Back in 2008, my
| Macbook Pro would run into that range with no problems. I
| remember looking at the CPU specs and Apple was using CPUs with
| higher than average temperature tolerance.
|
| Beyond thermal throttling, I don't see what harm it would be to
| run a CPU hot. They are expected to run hot and automatically
| throttle to keep heat in the designed range. It's not an
| emergency mechanism that kicks in to avoid CPU damage.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > Every laptop I've used runs far above 45C.
|
| Really? That should be a sign that your OS or hardware is
| malfunctioning. Intel CPUs (particularly everything post-
| Haswell) can idle just fine under 30c. Certain chips can even
| get near-ambient temps if you pull the clock speed down to S0
| sleep mode. If your laptop turns on, with nothing open, and
| hits 45 degrees Celsius, I think there's an issue with the
| cooling system. That, or you own a G3 Powerbook.
|
| Macs in general have really strange thermal profiles. I don't
| think a single one of my Linux machines, laptop or desktop,
| has ever peaked 70c in a sustained workload. The only time I
| ever consistently hit that temp range is with my Macbook,
| when it's compiling something or plugged into a 5k monitor.
|
| > Beyond thermal throttling, I don't see what harm it would
| be to run a CPU hot. They are expected to run hot and
| automatically throttle to keep heat in the designed range.
| It's not an emergency mechanism that kicks in to avoid CPU
| damage.
|
| Well, yes, there is a risk of damage running chips at ~90c.
| Intel chips have a junction temp of around ~95-105c, once it
| reaches that range the silicon will cut power to the chip to
| avoid risking damage and to force the component to begin
| cooling off. Sustaining higher temps for burst workloads is
| fairly negligible, but running your machine hot all the time
| will eventually take a toll on the internal storage and
| memory (doubly so if you're using an SOC like M1).
| orang2tang wrote:
| I had one for work and it would get so hot that it would freeze
| just browsing with a few browsing tabs and Teams open. Not
| every single time but enough to be annoying. Fastest spec
| laptop I have ever owned and also the slowest.
| amluto wrote:
| I used to use various video chat programs on an original Athlon
| 64. It worked just fine. There is really no excuse for video
| meetings to work so poorly on a modern-ish laptop.
| rootsudo wrote:
| Aim, Yahoo, MSN, Skype, what else was running back in the
| day?
| amluto wrote:
| IIRC Google Talk or Chat or whatever it was called (the
| XMPP product that worked quite well) had some video
| support, and there was even a degree of their party client
| support.
| fswd wrote:
| I remember... I had half dozen chat clients open, 100+
| open tabs in Mozilla Phoenix browser, editors with large
| projects open for weeks,... compiling, building kernels,
| running SQL servers, running multiple window VMs, ... all
| with 100-200 day uptimes. This was back in 2004-2006. AMD
| Athlon 64, RHEL 3. 512mb of ram... dual 19" LCD displays.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| An Intel i9 will _always_ dispatch an absurd amount of heat.
| The real advantage a MBP has over a lot of Windows systems is
| that the MBP has a full metal case so the fans can run on
| silent and divert all the heat away, while a Windows i9 laptop
| made out of plastic will always have the fans blaring.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Well, it doesn't really feel like an advantage when the
| palmrest's surface temp is hot enough to cook pork. Even
| Windows will do a fairly good job of keeping laptop thermals
| in a more comfortable 70-80c range, but Macbooks are the only
| devices I've seen that will push themselves so close to the
| tJunction temp of the chip. It must be some absurd MacOS
| performance ramping decision, I've found that leaving my
| machine in Low Power Mode will at least prevent it from
| cooking my hands when I just want to work on a VM.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| That's not entirely true, some macbooks actually have
| insulation between heat generating parts and the chassis so
| that the user doesn't get burnt. The maximum acceptable
| temperature of the chassis is actually quite low, in the
| 40degC range.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| The old ninth gen i9-9880H in this is a rough processor to have
| in a laptop.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Moreover, it's simply a bad choice for a laptop that doesn't
| have the cooling to support it. There's plenty of devices out
| there with a chassis thick enough to support a chip like that
| (Lenovo and HP have shipped Xeon laptops for years), but a
| Macbook isn't one of them. Even the lower-end Intel chips
| ended up getting undervolted to run comfortably in a Macbook
| chassis, I don't know what Apple was thinking when they put a
| workstation CPU in an Ultrabook form factor.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| If you assume malice, Apple could have been purposely
| limiting performance and setting up the M1 to look better
| by comparison.
| smoldesu wrote:
| I don't think it was malice, it was probably just an
| honest mistake. Apple comes out with a larger laptop than
| the 15", and Intel comes out with a processor better than
| the i7: as an engineer, you can put 2 and 2 together. I
| totally see how they'd think that a larger version of
| their i5 laptop could handle the i9. Apple's cooling is
| designed around low-wattage chips though, and those i9s
| are consuming much more power than an i7 for much less
| relative performance scaling. It also didn't help that
| they were keen on marketing it as a new-age mobile
| workstation, which was really not the case for a lot of
| daily users.
|
| The whole thing came together to create a disappointing
| product. Pretty much the only saving grace of those
| machines was their really-good Bootcamp performance, but
| it was no reason to pay $3,000+ for one.
| turtlebits wrote:
| I only had issues on the Intel 16" Macbook pro when attached to
| an external monitor (I forget which side). Otherwise, Teams is
| that bad.
| adzm wrote:
| I know teams was originally written on classic AngularJS, and was
| supposedly undertaking a significant rewrite in order to resolve
| performance and maintainability problems. Anyone aware if this
| was ever completed?
| spystath wrote:
| It may happen eventually but they have no incentive to make it
| so. They've captured a significant part of the corporate market
| by bundling with O365 for Enterprise. Teams has fulfilled it's
| purpose just as Office did. At least Office is decent software.
| tester756 wrote:
| Office is nice, as long as they dont hide Desktop downloaders
| on their website and try to force you to use their Web
| version which is like 1/3 of real desktop office.
| kurupt213 wrote:
| I have the same Mac but with 64 GB of memory and run windows in
| bootcamp and teams does this to my system
| pomatic wrote:
| Install a windows VM. Run teams in the VM. Problems mostly
| solved, although teams is flaky when run natively under windows
| anyway.
| euroclydon wrote:
| I have my MacBook configured to never sleep and I leave Teams
| open on it. Even though the program is right there staring at me,
| if I work on another computer for a couple hours, after some
| time, Teams doesn't show me any incoming chats until I click on
| it, and then they flood in, showing me everything that I've
| missed.
| animesh wrote:
| This is my biggest issue with it. I log in at 10AM and keep
| working until 1230 or so. Then I click on Teams tray icon. I
| get all the messages flooding in. My team who needs me think I
| am an asshole who has been online for at least 2 hours and not
| responded to them. I have to remember to click on the tray icon
| the moment it appears in the tray to fix this.
| RajT88 wrote:
| I had the same issue with a Surface Book 3 running Win11.
|
| It seemed more pronounced after the Win11 upgrade. But it was
| still bad on 10.
|
| The eventual fix was switching machines to one with 32gb RAM.
| Smooth like butter now.
|
| Yes it is ridiculous that 16gb is not enough for day to day
| stuff.
| iasay wrote:
| Our modern software stack, processes and attitude leaves us with
| this sort of product. It's broken at every level.
| tonymet wrote:
| Teams is the worst Microsoft app i've used in terms of
| performance and reliability. critical UI elements like the mute
| button will suddenly disappear permanently. features like chat
| will disappear and reappear on reboot . i've been suddenly logged
| out in the middle of calls and prompted to enter microsoft login
| when it's not needed . and ditto to the comments on memory and
| cpu consumption
|
| Microsoft needs to fix teams asap
| prepend wrote:
| As much as I hated Skype for Business it was at least reliably
| terrible.
|
| Teams has a habit of silently logging me out even though I'm
| using it in a call. Stuff will just stop working because it
| decided it needed to reauth me without prompting. So I'll be in
| a meeting and screen share will stop working or chat will stop
| working until I shut down and log in. Of course the top right
| profile still shows me logged in, but it lies.
|
| It was real fun trying to figure out what was happening there.
| I found out because multiple people had IM'd me but Teams
| wasn't showing me the messages. It was saying delivered to the
| sender. When I restarted I had a stream of new, unread
| messages.
|
| The unreliability is the most frustrating part. How can the app
| lie about delivering messages?
| derjames wrote:
| I use a Dell laptop from 2017 with an AMD E2-6110 Quad core, SSD,
| 8GB memory and Debian 11 with an extra screen attached to the
| HDMI port. In this laptop I have Teams-Preview v1.5.00.100453
| which I use heavily everyday for work (calendar, voice, video and
| chat). Teams takes about 30 seconds to start but after that just
| runs very well. No crashes, no issues with sound or video.
| Everything is responsive considering a laptop with such a slow
| processor.
| polskibus wrote:
| I think MS should rewrite teams into .net or c++ just like the
| rest of office is written. Nobody would use Outlook if it was
| performing like Teams is today.
| Jaruzel wrote:
| I invite you to read up on the truly awful Teams style
| OneOutlook client that MS are about to roll out:
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/18/23125532/microsoft-new-on...
| dickersnoodle wrote:
| This is what happens when management gets sweet-talked into
| thinking you can make everything a web app.
| mikestew wrote:
| Any new user to Teams on macOS will almost instantly be exposed
| to how little Microsoft gives a shit the first time they Cmd-Tab
| to Teams. Haha! Where's your focus now, loser?
|
| Between that, and the beachball that appears because I dared type
| _:)_ and it 's trying to...what the hell _is_ it doing? Go find
| smiley.jpg in your bag of resources and throw in the stream of
| bytes, how could you _possibly_ fuck this up, Microsoft?
|
| $DEITY, I hate Teams.
| mattmcknight wrote:
| I just run it in the browser- then it's subject to normal out of
| control browser tab limitations.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| Teams is the definition of what's wrong with microsoft
|
| Nobody gives a shit anymore at that company
|
| I keep say the same shit, but nothing changes, they have major
| culture and hiring problems, at this point i'm not sure "major"
| is enough to describe how horrible it is
|
| They fire random people, and keep the problematic seeds, worse,
| they reward them!
| zokier wrote:
| Teams is hot garbage. But posting Teams bashing threads on HN
| feels just preaching to the choir and beating dead horse for some
| fake internet points. As per guidelines, I don't find the topic
| to gratify ones intellectual curiosity.
| gpderetta wrote:
| It is cathartic.
| prepend wrote:
| I feel like Teams is gaslighting me. And my org's IT signs its
| praises and is never able to recreate any of my issues.
|
| These threads help me understand that it's not just me. So it
| definitely helps gratify my intellectual curiosity as to
| whether I've broken with reality.
| ActorNightly wrote:
| Teams definitely sucks, but this statement made me chuckle
|
| >Teams is murdering my MacBook Pro 16" i9 with 16GB RAM every
| day. This was supposed to be the most kick-a$$ laptop at the time
|
| Its quite surprising how supposedly tech people are actually out
| of touch with tech.
| lghh wrote:
| I don't understand. What's specifically out of touch about
| this?
| ActorNightly wrote:
| First, the specs on the Intel MBP weren't even top of the
| line. You could get laptops with slighyl higher spec CPUs,
| and much better discrete graphics like the 2080 that blew the
| AMD graphics in MBPs out of the water.
|
| Secondly, and most importantly, having a powerful chip, in a
| small chassis without adequate cooling = hard thermal
| throttling.
|
| The M1 chips are an upgrade on top of this with much less
| power draw for same performance, however both M1 Air and Pro
| still throttle, and M2 will throttle most likely more.
|
| If you want top of the line performance in a laptop, you have
| to buy one of those bulky ones with very loud fans, and
| expect that running at full performance on battery will drain
| the battery quickly There is no way around this. And to call
| those machines "laptops" is really a misnomer even,
| considering that its almost painful having them on your lap
| due to the heat.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| I think you're more out of touch here, though. Apple did have a
| number of iterations that used outdated chips, but IIRC the 16"
| i9 was part of the generation that finally caught up with the
| rest of the high-end market before they crushed the competition
| with the M1. Those definitely weren't slow by any realistic
| metric and I don't think there was that much competition at
| this level of portability.
| ActorNightly wrote:
| Lets not pretend that people actually are willingly making
| the tradeoff of some performance for portability when it
| comes to Macbooks. Many, many technically minded people are
| convinced that Macbooks are the best performing laptops there
| are, completely oblivious to physical laws surrounding heat
| transfer.
|
| Meanwhile, the crowd that builds their desktops up from
| scratch seems to be well aware of this.
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| I'm sure most "technically-minded" people will be well
| aware that a desktop would offer better performance. I'm
| equally sure portability does play a big role in taking or
| issuing a laptop for most people. Kinda hard to take a
| desktop along for wfh days or travel...
|
| Besides, the Apple Silicon ones do come out first in tons
| of benchmarks and the thermals of the 16" ones have
| received a lot of praise. There may be some desktop-in-a-
| laptop-shell monsters that outperform them, but for most
| workloads a 16" M1 Max should be very hard to beat. I have
| a M1 Pro from work and it's a beast, does a bunch of
| stressful things a lot faster than my built-from-scratch
| desktop (not brand new but also not ancient). Maybe read up
| on Apple silicon and Macbook thermals, a lot has changed
| since 2018.
| ripper1138 wrote:
| Out of touch? That was a top of the line laptop when it was
| released and it cost >$2000
| dbrueck wrote:
| Citing the cost of an Apple product doesn't really add weight
| to your point. :)
| epolanski wrote:
| I've got the same top of the line MBP 2020.
|
| How in the hell does it performs worse as a native application
| than google meets does inside the browser on a 10 years older
| piece of hardware?
| onikolas7 wrote:
| Lets set a new standard: if it doesn't run on raspberry Pi don't
| ship it. Not running on a Pi should be a rare, special-case
| exception (e.g. need to train a model on GPU).
| kposehn wrote:
| I'm curious if anyone here on an M1 has tried installing the
| iPad/iOS version on their computer. I've done this for some badly
| misbehaving apps (Slack for example) and found it to be a
| significant improvement in performance, even if some interactions
| don't work as well.
|
| Caveat: It may require jumping through some hoops to load on a
| Mac and some infosec policies may stop you from using it.
| partiallypro wrote:
| I've experienced this but with Slack. Slack always used to bog
| down my computer and randomly disconnect. My news company uses
| Teams and I've had very limited problems with it. The search on
| Teams though is genuinely awful and you can't find anything
| especially the context it's in. It's terrible.
| mirekrusin wrote:
| Teams is by far the worst application I had to interact with in
| the last decade.
|
| Sometimes I have to go to incognito to open meeting link.
|
| Other times I have to open link from Chrome because opening from
| FF doesn't work.
|
| Sometimes I have to reinstall it.
|
| Sometimes audio decides not to work.
|
| It takes 1 minute to launch it.
|
| I mean, if you have a meeting, 10m notification in advance is
| about right as that's the time you need to start launching it and
| you should be just on time or just a little bit late.
|
| I have no idea what the team developing teams is doing.
|
| They should be all fired and rehired just to be fired again.
|
| Maybe they're using teams for standups/meetings or something?
| muhaaa wrote:
| Microsofts way to say: buy a windows laptop!
| AnonC wrote:
| Microsoft needs to disband the Teams team and start afresh with a
| non-Electron base that's better designed. MS Teams is awful on
| Windows too. It's slow to respond and makes the system slower.
| Having 16GB RAM and not running anything else that's heavy
| doesn't make much of a difference either. MS Teams is like the
| camel in the story "The Arab and the Camel". Teams won't stop
| until it occupies the entire tent!
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| The problem isn't with Electron. Electron is really fast. It
| isn't even with voice or video or whatever. Those are native
| DLLs/libraries with good codecs if you have the desktop app
| installed.
|
| No. The problem is that Teams was rushed to market a few years
| back to compete with Slack and whatnot. Using Angular.js
| (that's right, not Angular 2+ which was already available).
| Years passed. Stuff keeps getting added. It's still Angular.js.
| bob1029 wrote:
| > Using Angular.js (that's right, not Angular 2+ which was
| already available). Years passed. Stuff keeps getting added.
| It's still Angular.js.
|
| Wait. Teams is using the _original_ version of Angular JS to
| serve as the UI framework?
|
| This is substantial news to me. Certainly would explain
| _everything_.
|
| The amount of technological shame I am witnessing continues
| to grow without bound. Microsoft is worth how much money on
| the open market?
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| They used AngularJS a long time ago but Teams today is an
| React app. The problem is clearly with JS/Electron. Slack
| have also performance issues.
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| It absolutely still is Angular.js. Just one click with
| Dev Tools and I already found _ng-if_ and _ng-class_
| attributes.
|
| That's not to say Angular.js can't be used for apps that
| complex! It's just a lot easier to get it wrong compared
| to more modern frameworks.
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| How do you open Dev tools in the Teams app?
| mdavidn wrote:
| I don't know about the app, but you can open the same
| thing in a normal browser:
|
| https://teams.microsoft.com/
| ghosty141 wrote:
| Discord doesn't, it's Electron too. That's not the root
| of the problem. Discord is pretty fast, I haven't really
| noticed it "chugging" and lagging like MSTeams does.
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| My problem with Discord is that I can't tell if it just
| poor UX or if it performance issues as well. Horrible
| app, I only use it cause I am kinda forced to keep up to
| some things going on there. Not unusual that you miss out
| on things even when you think you done everything to get
| notified. I don't even understand how the crap is
| supposed to work to be honest. Seems utterly broken. Fast
| of what? I can't understand wtf it is showing half of the
| time.
|
| Edit: HN surprises, comments that can't be replied.
| Anyways. To stay up to date in the biz is hard enough. No
| need to add random Gremlins to that. Like not following
| basic UX rules.
| nopcode wrote:
| Took me a while to to get into discord UI too.
|
| Sucks getting old doesn't it?
| pronik wrote:
| Don't give them ideas. The one thing I don't need right now is
| Microsoft killing Linux compatibility in Teams.
| dellIsBetter wrote:
| The version of teams for Linux sucks too!!!
| solarkraft wrote:
| A lot of hate for Teams in the comments. I don't like it either,
| but it's the best big Microsoft (end-user) app I'm aware of.
|
| It's _not_ well designed, it _is_ glitchy as hell - the other
| stuff is just worse. I was ecstatic when my work place added the
| calendar app to Teams because unlike Outlook that actually
| managed to do simple operations without freezing, crashing and
| reloading all the time.
|
| Big tech's software quality standards are appalling. It's as if
| your bank's elevators don't have walls and everything smells like
| piss.
|
| I'd also like to note that Teams calls are actually surprisingly
| stable and work better for me than most other options.
| hestefisk wrote:
| Hehe that's an interesting allegory.
| SigmundA wrote:
| I run Teams 24/7 on both my current M1 Pro and old i9 for the
| last 3 years without "killing" my Mac. Yes the fans on the i9 ran
| when in a meeting not now on my M1. I use constantly and works
| well for our business for so many different things.
|
| It has steadily improved over time and performs pretty well as
| they have gone to newer electron versions and moved over to react
| from angular.
|
| Apple Silicon native supported is in beta and makes things even
| better for my M1.
|
| Safari is much more of a problem currently eating up 10+ gigs of
| ram over time "killing" my Mac requires a restart of safari to
| free up.
| gnicholas wrote:
| The worst part is that every time you launch Teams, it adds
| itself to your login items (on Mac, at least). It doesn't matter
| how many times you've removed it before, it just keeps happening.
| I heard you can turn this 'feature' off, but you have to log in
| with an MS account to do so. No thanks -- I exclusively use Teams
| on the web.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| Back when I had to use teams I would try going on a VC and if
| Slack was also open, my battery would drain in about 30-45
| minutes (on a new-at-the-time MacBook Pro) and be super laggy the
| whole time.
|
| Ever since then, as long as I'm not presenting, I'll only call
| into video calls from an iOS device, regardless of whether we're
| using Meet, Teams etc. It's improved the situation a lot.
|
| Also I always turn off my video feed while others are talking. I
| never understand why on a call with hundreds of people, they'll
| all be constantly uploading their live video stream. Seems
| wasteful and inefficient, maybe somebody could comment on just
| how much or little it really is.
| siva7 wrote:
| Anyone else doesn't receive anymore Teams Messages on their
| Macbook when you close the lid and then reopen? I have to restart
| teams, and i own 3 Macbooks with different Versions of MacOS and
| CPU Architecture, all show the same problem since a few weeks.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Some times I only get messages on the (Windows) desktop client
| when I open the app on my phone... So, well, it's normal.
| brokenkebab2 wrote:
| Teams is likely the worst communication software I ever used on
| any OS. It can't even consistently sync messages across devices.
| zelphirkalt wrote:
| Lets have no illusions. Teams is the absolute worst I have seen
| for teams. Basically every other tool I tried worked better.
|
| However, Slack isn't that much better. It still gaslights Firefox
| users and tells them their browser is not supported. What a nice
| way to put it, that after friggin' years, they still have not
| managed to implement voice chat in a standard conform way.
| Discord and others have had this for years! Only Slack and Teams
| (in browser) seem to have incapable development teams behind
| them, who are comfortable with gaslighting unsuspecting users
| into using Chromium-based browsers, furthering web mono-culture.
|
| There are so many issues with Teams, that I am wondering, what
| they are even working on. Surely they cannot be bugfixing all
| day, if so many bugs remain after years. We've had 2-3 years of
| pandemic now. What the heck are they doing!? They could have made
| the business. Instead they shove this broken thing down our
| throats and time will come, when people will just run away
| screaming, just like they did with Skype. Another business
| opportunity of MS ruined by bad quality software output.
|
| Stuff like that should get banned immediately, before it can harm
| the web any more, than it already has.
| gsk22 wrote:
| > However, Slack isn't that much better. It still gaslights
| Firefox users and tells them their browser is not supported.
|
| Where do you see that? I exclusively use Firefox and have never
| seen such a message from Slack.
| lkramer wrote:
| If you use the built in "huddle" or voice chat.
| potatolicious wrote:
| > I am wondering, what they are even working on
|
| Without any inside knowledge, but having been part of many
| mega-projects like this I'm willing to take a stab at it: new
| features vs. QoL is a huge, huge tension that exists in
| projects like these.
|
| New features get new customers, and more importantly gets execs
| excited and people promoted. Refactors, performance
| improvements, etc, are almost never appropriately rewarded or
| prioritized, so QoL problems tend to accumulate until a crisis
| moment, where the organization is forced to shift priorities to
| address a user experience that has badly degraded to the point
| of significant customer revolt.
|
| I saw this with a front-row seat with Google Maps: features
| kept getting piled in to the app (did you want to know what the
| most popular dishes at a restaurant is? Now you can!) while
| renderer performance continually regressed, map overlay
| rendering bugs accumulated, and the original "slippy map" UX
| degraded. At this point the mobile app is deeply unpleasant to
| use - it hitches regularly and has trouble hitting 60FPS even
| on top-flight flagship phones. The product clearly hasn't
| reached the "crisis" moment yet, but it is on a trajectory to.
|
| Teams seems like it might be at (or near) the crisis moment.
| It's a shame that organizational dynamics prevent these sorts
| of issues from deteriorating to this point, but it's a pretty
| common feature among product teams to prioritize new feature
| dev while existing (and _way_ more core) features degrade.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| The Google Maps site and application are both deeply
| unpleasant to use if only because, when you click on a search
| result, the fucking map doesn't zoom in from an almost state-
| level view _to show you where the fuck the listing is._
| potatolicious wrote:
| Yeah, that's the kind of basic QoL stuff that's really the
| nuts and bolts of a product, but tend to get glossed over
| in planning.
|
| When working out their OKRs teams generally do not have an
| entire Objective for "iterate, prevent regressions, and
| improve upon existing core features". They instead have a
| litany of Objectives to add completely new things.
|
| Performance regressions are just the tip of that iceberg
| (though it is most noticeable), but a component of this
| upkeep is keeping up with the competition on your core
| already-shipped stuff. IMO Apple Maps' zoom behavior,
| rendering behavior, overlay behavior, etc, are far superior
| to Google's. It wouldn't be rocket science to implement
| their version of these changes, but clearly it's not being
| prioritized.
| ploxiln wrote:
| > refactors, performance improvements, etc, are almost never
| appropriately rewarded or prioritized
|
| Another variant that I've seen: actual refinements and
| improvements just aren't simple enough to sell to management,
| or to new junior devs. So they'll be all excited about
| switching over to the next big framework that finally makes
| things fast and refreshing, for the first time ever! But the
| migration still has some bugs that haven't been worked out
| and some features that haven't been ported ... and a year
| later things are actually worse than where we started, so
| repeat with the next big framework that finally makes good
| software possible for the first time!
| potatolicious wrote:
| This is a huge failure of management where it occurs - and
| one of the chief causes for it is short leadership tenure.
|
| Places where leadership remains stable over long periods
| tend to do better on this front. You pay for some big
| architectural overhaul, but you insist that you live on the
| new thing long enough to actually _ship features_ before
| you go into the next cycle of renewal.
|
| But in some companies leadership tenure is short - execs
| stick around for 2-3 years max, which is just enough time
| to complete an architectural migration but not enough to
| ship stuff on it!
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > It still gaslights Firefox users and tells them their browser
| is not supported
|
| I checked in to this a few weeks, and it really doesn't work
| for technical reasons. They use some deprecated experimental
| Chrome API (which is also slated for removal). Slack in general
| is an absolute mess in terms of engineering.
|
| It just so happens that I had to use Teams the other day for a
| job interview, and at the last possible moment it notified me
| that Firefox doesn't work for video :-/ Had to hastily install
| Chromium. Didn't look in to the reasons for that.
| 202206241203 wrote:
| Teams works fine, just don't use exotic laptops, even if they
| are machined from solid aluminium.
| duped wrote:
| This seems unnecessarily toxic. Slack is an app first, not a
| webpage. Just install the app.
| kelnos wrote:
| You mean the "app" that's just a Chrome instance that wraps
| the webpage, and sucks up GBs of RAM while doing so? No
| thanks.
| raydev wrote:
| I leave it running continuously for weeks on my Mac, with
| no issues. It is currently using 700MB across all of its
| processes (5 by my count). Doesn't seem like that big of a
| problem.
|
| I understand it used to be a much larger problem. Maybe
| it's time to try it out again.
| Mo3 wrote:
| Almost a GB for a chat application? I definitely see a
| problem there..
| raydev wrote:
| Memory is designed to be used. I guess if I'm memory
| constrained I can close it, but it's never been the
| source of any of my day-to-day problems while coding.
| SahAssar wrote:
| My problem with the app isn't resource usage, it's that a
| chat client that's already a webpage shouldn't need me to
| install a app. It's ridiculous how far slack will go _on
| purpose_ to not support the platform their app is built
| on.
| raydev wrote:
| As a chat client that facilitates communication with my
| coworkers, I don't want to limit it to a tab in Chrome.
| Chrome is an app that I close often, I can't recall a
| time I've wanted to close Slack.
| SahAssar wrote:
| I never close my browser unless I have to, but sure that
| might not be the normal behavior. I still don't get why
| they can't give an acceptable experience on the platform
| they built it on without wrapping it in a useless
| wrapper.
|
| Keep the app, just make sure I can use your service on
| the platform it's built on.
| hackmiester wrote:
| That's fair, but don't confuse your habit of quitting
| your Web browser for typical behavior.
| zelphirkalt wrote:
| Actually I don't want the app, as I don't trust Slack as an
| organization. Who knows what their app does on my computer or
| what it could do, even if it is an electron app? I prefer
| running things in the browser sandbox, at least limiting them
| somewhat.
| stalfosknight wrote:
| Slack is a not an app. It's a webpage bundled with an obese
| browser.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| I installed the Slack app and it was _even slower_ than using
| it from Firefox. There 's a noticeable delay when typing
| (sometimes more than other times) like you're typing over
| ssh, and starting the thing takes just as long as just
| opening it in Firefox.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Toxic? It aligns exactly with my personal experience today.
| Coworkers often try to call me using Slack, but I'm always
| present "Nope in Firefox" dialog.
|
| And if you think the Slack app is anything other than a
| webpage, then you really need to look into that more. As
| someone else posted, it is a webpage wrapped in a bundled
| chromium package.
| duped wrote:
| It's an electron app. That's not a webpage bundled with
| chromium, it shares a large number of components but
| functions quite differently. It's not surprising that your
| web experience sucks relative to the app.
| [deleted]
| mrtksn wrote:
| There's Ripcord[0], which is a native app that can connect to
| Slack and Discord.
|
| [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
| jeroenhd wrote:
| So, everyone hates Teams, I can get behind that. But has anyone
| actually found out what Teams is doing in the background? Several
| people mention that Teams seems to be overloading the processor's
| I/O capabilities, but what is it doing exactly? What files is it
| writing to?
|
| I know the i9 Macbook's cooler doesn't come close to the thermal
| output of an i9 so it's unsurprising that an overloaded laptop
| will cause all kinds of problems, but I wonder how MS managed to
| screw up _this_ badly.
| bob1029 wrote:
| Teams needs a native rewrite or simply be relegated to a dumbass
| web app (which it effectively already is today).
|
| The amount of bullshit my team puts up with around this product
| still shocks me. I sometimes wonder if this software is _bad on
| purpose_ to condition us for something worse down the road.
| codebolt wrote:
| I was an early adopter of Teams and generally feel like MS gets
| too much criticism for e.g. Windows. I really wanted to like
| Teams. But having used it daily for two years, the only thing I'm
| impressed with is how badly they managed to mess it up. Whatever
| software team worked on this should be ashamed.
|
| It caused my 3 year old high-end Windows laptop to hang
| completely after a few minutes of conversation, sometimes eating
| all my CPU with no activity whatsoever. Tried to do a clean boot,
| didn't help. Had to get a new laptop just because of Teams.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| Whenever someone invites me to a meeting with MS Teams, I request
| them if we can do an alternate. Even if not, I still keep the
| alternate link handy. When the meeting starts and things don't
| work, I just give them the alternate link and they usually go,
| "This just works."
|
| Most corporate users are not aware of alternates and just use the
| ones their company picks without questioning.
| hestefisk wrote:
| Amen.
| oregano wrote:
| I had a contracting gig at MSFT a few years ago. I remember one
| occasion where I voiced some gripes about using Teams with some
| FTEs I worked with and receiving nothing but blank stares. I
| couldn't believe they didn't find Teams as frustrating as I did.
| Maybe they were just used to using crappy MSFT tech?
| nittanymount wrote:
| I was wondering if MS use Teams internally, the answer is yes.
|
| (asked here before and asked a friend moved to MS... haha, not
| sure how they could bear with it...)
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31186894
| ricardobayes wrote:
| Interestingly, it works well on windows 11. Using it cca. 8-10
| hours a day very actively and never really had any big issues, I
| recall maybe an issue of joining a meeting once in the past 2
| years. However it's a very different experience for my mac-user
| colleagues.
| isusmelj wrote:
| Not solved yet. I still struggle a lot with Teams. Ended up using
| the browser version instead. Used fine until today. Suddenly
| camera was not working and laaaagg. This is bad. Google Hangout
| and Zoom work fine. Since years...
| Cyberdog wrote:
| Remember Skype? How it could run in the background and get text
| messages and calls and not really cause any problems?
|
| And then Microsoft bought Skype, and every subsequent version
| just kinda got a little shittier? And then MS puts effort into
| MSN Messenger and other not-Skype things despite Skype having a
| huge established userbase for both personal and professional use?
|
| IIRC, they gave up with the later versions of Skype and used
| Electron for those too, but I still remember them being at least
| a little bit better than the absolute heap of shit that is Teams.
| I mean, it's almost like you have to put effort into being a
| shittier-than-average Electron app.
|
| Thankfully there is only one person inside of one client company
| who insists on using Teams. I couldn't imagine having to use it
| every day. I have to presume that nobody inside of Microsoft uses
| it... I can't imagine this shit is being dogfooded.
| mywacaday wrote:
| I'm rapidly losing faith in Teams and Microsoft, I've been
| playing with powerapps to have a function that adds a teams
| comment to Onenote to track actions that come in through chat. So
| far at least half the time the page generates in Onenote but
| doesn't sync any content, when it does sync the link back to the
| chat crashes Teams 100% of the time. Have tried the same link
| into email and that crashes Teams too.
| amarraja wrote:
| Not sure if electron is the issue, I believe vscode is based on
| it (I may be mistaken). Really wish they would sort Teams out.
|
| I like the concepts and product, but when in a video chat I have
| to close most apps. I tried opening a JIRA ticket whilst on a
| video call the other day... my quads still have the scars
| cutler wrote:
| Apart from the app itself ~/Library/Appliction
| Support/Microsoft/Teams was eating up 1.1Gb before I sent it
| packing to Trash. Same old Microsoft.
| Aaronstotle wrote:
| I had an issue with Teams where it would open for a short period
| of time then exit immediately, this was on an 2019 15" MBP.
|
| Teams is an impressively awful product
| corrral wrote:
| It's bizarre to me that smallish teams in the 90s were able to
| make native "apps"--sometimes even multi-platform--for markets
| so tiny that they'd be considered beneath notice now, but huge
| companies today only seem to be able to produce fragile low-
| quality resource-eating webtech shitware, with much larger
| teams. WTF happened?
| dkonofalski wrote:
| $$$$
|
| Companies realized that they could save money by using
| mediocre coders to create MVP products using things like
| Chromium and then, instead of refining those products, they
| scale them up massively (which the MVPs were never intended
| for).
| ta8903 wrote:
| This might not be entirely related but something I've noticed
| is that whenever you see the promotional material for a
| modern UI toolkit you will find that it's marketed for ease
| of use for developers rather than making easy to use
| applications for users.
| ryandrake wrote:
| This is a developer culture problem as much as it is a
| technology problem. Developers (and their bosses) care less
| and less every year about runtime performance, stability,
| quality and so on. Management just figures it's easier to
| find a truck full of JavaScript developers than it is to
| find two good C++ developers, so everyone just agrees to
| choose technologies that are popular and trade off end
| user's needs for developer speed and comfort. The industry
| has sacrificed so much at the altar of "developer
| convenience".
| cevn wrote:
| Management wants you to make a cross platform app, but with
| the minimum "cost". Who is going to spend all that time
| making 5 good apps when you can make 1 shitty one instead? I
| guess what actually happened is cross platform tech advanced,
| but this ease of development has actually worsened the user
| experience.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| As the saying goes, two programmers can always create in two
| months what one programmer can create in one week.
| michelb wrote:
| But that's just it. Markets are huge now. You have to be fast
| to market to grab a big chunk and dominate. No company who
| has Teams will use Zoom, and equally shitty product that was
| also rushed. If you have O365, you probably won't use slack,
| Microsoft wins.
| arccy wrote:
| was at a big corp, you could be contacted over teams,
| skype, slack, or email, with meetings in teams or zoom.
| vijaybritto wrote:
| I share similar frustrations and resort to Zoom for screen
| sharing because sharing screen with code editor is miles better
| on Zoom.
|
| I wonder why MS is not writing Teams in React Native, on which
| they pioneer for multiple platforms!
|
| Also these performance problems seem like the perfect fit for
| WASM. What a validation it would be for the tech!
| sgt101 wrote:
| This is not Teams; it's the last gen of Mac.
|
| There is a process (can't remember the name) that is kicked in
| when the temperature reaches a certain level. The job of this
| process is to turn down the processor. Unfortunately it consumes
| more more process time when it does this because it preempts
| everything. So the temperature goes up, which creates more
| interruptions and so on and so on.
|
| The core reason is that the temperature sensor is just next to
| the power supply and so is kicking in too early.
|
| The solution - unplug the mac. Let it cool down completely and
| then run it with the power plugged in on the other side.
| astrange wrote:
| This is false. Thermal limiting on an Intel Mac is indicated by
| kernel_task CPU but it isn't using any power to do it.
| marricks wrote:
| You can use Teams in chrome on Mac and it works fine. I'd never
| let that tech touch my Mac. I have no clue how MS forced so many
| people to use that app but I'm glad my team uses something else.
| riffic wrote:
| Good old Microsoft quality as usual.
|
| I have _no idea_ how VSC is actually a decent product though.
| epolanski wrote:
| Because the Monaco editor was a do or die for the TypeScript
| project so they threw everything in it to make it good and
| prove to MS higher ups to double down investing in TypeScript.
|
| Also, it's open source which helps.
| millzlane wrote:
| And here I am 12:49 up 57 days, 22:14, 2 users, load averages:
| 4.08 4.80 5.17
|
| With teams (1.5.00.17261) running on a 2017 imac 2.3 dual core i5
| 16gb all day.
|
| I wonder why his computer is running this one app like that. I
| can't be the anomaly.
|
| $ top -l 1 -n 0
|
| Processes: 662 total, 3 running, 2 stuck, 657 sleeping, 3063
| threads 2022/07/13 12:56:03 Load Avg: 5.04, 7.65, 6.85 CPU usage:
| 43.62% user, 35.80% sys, 20.57% idle SharedLibs: 332M resident,
| 59M data, 18M linkedit. MemRegions: 189673 total, 7200M resident,
| 53M private, 1022M shared. PhysMem: 16G used (3372M wired), 19M
| unused. VM: 22T vsize, 3135M framework vsize, 453825346(0)
| swapins, 462064845(0) swapouts. Networks: packets: 107141152/85G
| in, 49052373/11G out. Disks: 88964543/2627G read, 134036320/2890G
| written.
|
| $ vm_stat
|
| Mach Virtual Memory Statistics: (page size of 4096 bytes) Pages
| free: 35882. Pages active: 1334360. Pages inactive: 1336020.
| Pages speculative: 1259. Pages throttled: 0. Pages wired down:
| 870879. Pages purgeable: 1650. "Translation faults": 9544416536.
| Pages copy-on-write: 254263151. Pages zero filled: 4849057170.
| Pages reactivated: 1257299202. Pages purged: 18555371. File-
| backed pages: 787054. Anonymous pages: 1884585. Pages stored in
| compressor: 8987653. Pages occupied by compressor: 615543.
| Decompressions: 341213320. Compressions: 400079701. Pageins:
| 148819424. Pageouts: 1660395. Swapins: 453931279. Swapouts:
| 462133043.
| dathinab wrote:
| What is fascinating about Teams is in how many different ways it
| fails for different people and setups.
|
| I mean things like the electron app being behind the chrome web
| view (even through it's not much more then a web view and doesn't
| really add anything) is not surprising.
|
| Like I have seen one or two cases of "uh teams fucked up my
| Laptop I have to restart", including with the electron app.
|
| Many cases of "oh today teams decides to not allow screen sharing
| for me, this morning it did work?" (which then also randomly
| works again sometimes just by rejoining the call).
|
| Also many cases of audio/mic randomly being terrible until you
| restart (through that might be the fault of chromes auto mic
| level adjustment).
|
| My favorite is that when you hard switch of a mic it decides to
| warn you with a huge banner that you are muted ... but doesn't
| set your icon on muted. Which looks a lot like "we want to listen
| in even if you mute so please don't mute the mice on the OS
| level".
|
| Also it sometimes randomly mutes you, like when you join a call
| (in chrome) to fast it hadn't yet loaded the "default mic on"
| setting so it's off (which for someone muting their mice with a
| physical button is just terrible UX).
|
| But besides all it it still works better then Slack or worse Zoom
| in my experience. I mean it at least does work somehow most of
| the time even if with bad UX and drawbacks. While Zoom in my
| experience sometimes just doesn't work at all (on Linux/the web
| app). And in Slack if the connection is sup-par it's de-facto
| unusable.
| asdajksah2123 wrote:
| This might help someone.
|
| Do you have adblock of some sort? Especially something at the DNS
| level, like the PiHole operating on your computer or network?
|
| Because that will absolutely destroy Teams.
|
| Teams tries to send Telemetry to MS, and the code is poorly
| written, where it keeps stacking up all those messages it was
| supposed to send, and keeps trying to resend them. This adds up
| and brings it to a grinding halt.
|
| Try disabling the ad/dns blocking and see if it helps.
| jen20 wrote:
| > Teams tries to send Telemetry to MS,
|
| > Try disabling the ad/dns blocking and see if it helps.
|
| Absolutely the fuck not.
|
| It wouldn't surprise me if this turned out to be an issue, but
| the idea that the solution is to allow Microsoft to exfiltrate
| whatever the hell they like on the whims of their product
| management is abhorrent - not a solution.
| asdajksah2123 wrote:
| This is not a solution. It's a tip on determining whether
| this is your problem.
|
| For many people who are required to use Teams, and have this
| issue, it might be a necessary solution until MS gets its act
| together.
|
| For many who have alternatives, they may choose to abandon
| Teams itself.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >until MS gets its act together.
|
| So, in other words, permanently disabling ad blocking
| pawelduda wrote:
| Maybe they can add an opt-out telemetry checkbox which will
| magically reset to default state after every update
| GranPC wrote:
| For what it's worth, I run Microsoft Teams in its own isolated
| Chrome profile with almost no extensions (definitely no
| adblockers). It's been sitting in the background 99% unused for
| the past 4 hours and is currently wildly fluctuating between
| 500 and 850 MB of RAM usage + 8-12% CPU usage, despite not even
| being the focused tab in said Chrome profile.
|
| That being said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a content
| blocker made it even worse. It's just... not very good
| software.
| [deleted]
| sswaner wrote:
| Curious if I had a similar usage of resources. My experience
| hasn't been impacted, and I use Teams all day every day. The
| Activity Monitor line item for Microsoft Teams was not concerning
| ( 566MB of memory), but then searching for "Teams" showed a total
| of 5.4 GB of memory consumption for various Teams processes. Not
| cool.
| pulketo wrote:
| mine was killing my linux laptop, so I decided to open teams in
| chrome and i works well
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Protip: using the web app version that runs in Chrome is a little
| better than the standalone app.
| jleyank wrote:
| Sept 2021. What is current day performance on intel or apple
| chipsets?
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| It's a glorified chat program. Why does it need a top-of-the-
| line computer from last year for ?
|
| My experience with Teams is that it uses by itself about double
| the RAM the rest of the entire operating systems is using (and
| that includes a web browser and a office suite).
|
| They've recently used tricks to reduce the RAM usage, such as
| practically unloading the entire "tab" (in the Chromium sense)
| when the window is not focused, but this leads to out-of-date
| information in the window (such as presence status) whenever it
| is not focused.
| rayiner wrote:
| Garbage. Teams may be the worst Microsoft product in a decade.
| justusthane wrote:
| Skype For Business was worse.
| arprocter wrote:
| They recently changed something in Teams (I first noticed at
| the beginning of June) - now if you don't move your mouse for
| 5 mins it automatically marks you 'idle' and...stops
| receiving messages. Then when you move the mouse all the
| messages people sent while you were idle arrive at once.
|
| If you don't run it on your main machine this becomes pretty
| annoying pretty fast, and there doesn't seem to be an option
| anywhere to change 'mark me idle after' time
| nullwarp wrote:
| Oh thank god it's not just me, I searched around and
| couldn't figure out what was going
|
| I've missed soooo many notifications because of this
| garbage I have to remember to manually go check it.
| Kaze404 wrote:
| At my previous job I had to tell people to completely
| ignore my status and presume I'm marked as online because I
| couldn't get it to stop marking me as Away. I'd be
| programming for a couple hours, only to realize I had been
| marked as away that entire time.
| arprocter wrote:
| It also seems to mark you as 'in a meeting' whenever
| there's anything on your Outlook calendar, so if you
| block out lunch...
| juice_bus wrote:
| I find the auto idle exceedingly frustrating - sometimes it
| doesn't kick in, sometimes it kicks in very quickly.
| Sometimes i have to restart the whole application to get it
| to flip back to Available.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| I don't even look at the indicators anymore. A lot of
| people get stuck on yellow or red and never change to
| green.
| Karsteski wrote:
| That idle time seriously needs an option to change it. It's
| stupid how it works now.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| They seem to have a strategy to make every feature worse
| over time. For a long time voice calls worked well but it
| seems their feature worsening strategy has finally reached
| voice calls and I constantly have people drop off or bad
| voice quality.
| vitaflo wrote:
| Teams is the worst software I've used since Lotus Notes.
| [deleted]
| rafaelturk wrote:
| I've never installed Teams. Always used from chrome.
| sublimefire wrote:
| Teams crashed on my Mac when I was interviewing at Microsoft. In
| 3 interviews. Funny enough nobody understood my issue, but if you
| think about it only a small minority of folks have non windows
| computers in MS.
| bnycum wrote:
| I have also had a bunch of issues with Teams on Mac. Honestly I
| just use an iPad for meetings on Teams these days, it is the only
| way to get it to work. However I can never get the government
| Teams meetings to work on my iPad at all, end up just dialing in
| for those. On the Mac they just crash.
|
| My work uses Skype for all conversations, I have noticed it
| getting just as bad for Mac. Randomly killing my webcam until
| restarting, absolutely stuttering.
| yborg wrote:
| No BigCorp is going to cancel O365 because Teams sucks. Teams
| accomplished its objective of squashing Slack in enterprise,
| Microsoft has no incentive to improve it.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I can only assume the bosses at Microsoft are out golfing all
| the time and not using Teams or rather iMessaging each other.
|
| Otherwise it makes no sense that they themselves would put up
| with the garbage that they have control of fixing. I would also
| be embarrassed of such low quality product, but I know that
| sentiment may not be shared universally.
| tester756 wrote:
| Discord is probably the only company that can make
| voice+chat+streaming software right.
|
| It's insane how bad Teams' chat is.
|
| I don't know who was crazy enough to paste fucking formating with
| text,
|
| so when you copy from IDE/docs/whatever then Teams applies font
| sizes / colors and makes mess, so you have to copy stuff to e.g
| notepad and then to Teams. Additionally leaving `` block sometime
| doesn't work <wtf>
|
| Cool software doesn't do crazy shit with Clipboard and Links
|
| __________
|
| lack of Push2Talk option (not mute/unmute btn) is tragedy, did
| those people ever play some video games with teams/guilds?
|
| Ventrilo had this feature in probably 2003, Discord uses it too,
| but enterprise communicators struggle to figure this simple
| feature despite being so good, especially when everybody was WFH
| and had people in the house talking.
|
| ____________
|
| On the positives side - calendar and its integrations are
| unparalleled and meetings are decent.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| > Discord is probably the only company that can make
| voice+chat+streaming software right.
|
| I still don't understand why they did not not release it as a
| business software, exactly the same but with reskinned without
| that gaming cringe.
|
| I actually was using it as business communicator at ~2018...
| but at gaming company.
| bobkazamakis wrote:
| >Discord is probably the only company that can make
| voice+chat+streaming software right.
|
| it's absurd to a level where they could white-label their
| existing stuff and aim it at commercial applications.
| bob1029 wrote:
| I've desperately wanted to spend money on a better solution
| like this, but gaming being the only major use case makes it
| a difficult sell to the rest of the team. That cute UI
| bullshit wears thin very quickly in a work setting. It's also
| really tricky to get other 3rd parties and vendors to join
| your discord meetings in 2022.
|
| All they would need to do is _remove_ a bunch of gaming-
| related crap and sell it as Discord for Business to take our
| money from us. Maybe just a light sprinkle of outlook
| integration would be nice too. I 'd sign annual agreements
| for this _today_ if it was an option.
| mark_and_sweep wrote:
| Agreed. Don't understand why they don't do it. Would love
| to have my employer spend money on Discord, indirectly
| financing free voice chat for my evening gaming sessions...
| lkramer wrote:
| I'm so happy Microsoft's attempt to buy Discord died.
| Intuitively it would have been great, MS would be able to
| leverage Discord tech and make their other products better. The
| reality would have been, like their purchase of Skype, to
| continuously make the product worse until it becomes as bad as
| all the other MS products.
| gpetukhov wrote:
| To fix Teams formatting issue on MacOS once and for all you can
| go to System Preferences->Keyboard->Shortcuts->App Shortcuts,
| then add a new shortcut by pressing (+), choose "Application":
| "Microsoft Teams", "Menu title": "Paste and Match Style",
| "Keyboard Shortcut": "[?]V", and click "Add". Done!
| walls wrote:
| If you hold shift while you paste it will remove all
| formatting.
| thefz wrote:
| > lack of Push2Talk option (not mute/unmute btn) is tragedy,
| did those people ever play some video games with teams/guilds?
|
| If you are muted you can press spacebar to temporarily unmute
| yourself. Look for it in the options.
| tester756 wrote:
| That's not how Ventrilo, TeamSpeak and Discord implement it.
|
| That's poor-man implementation of this.
|
| Push2Talk is literally "you talk when pressing button" and
| combined with e.g MOUSE buttons,
|
| so it's comfortable when playing games or coding in your IDE,
|
| you have 100% control over when talking and you don't have to
| have focus on the communicator(!)
| Kaze404 wrote:
| Discord is still lackluster on many fronts. Their
| implementation of threads is probably the worst I've ever seen
| or used, for example.
|
| That said, it is a great platform to use nowadays. But as
| someone who's used it (literally) daily since 2015, it's worth
| pointing out that it took them a significant amount of time to
| get to this point, and they still have ways to go.
| millzlane wrote:
| I sometimes want to keep formatting when copy and pasting
| documentation from the KB in the web. Keeping formatting helps
| with emphasis and colored text and bullets in documentation.
|
| In teams on Mac, to paste as plaint text on a mac, when you
| paste, use Shift + Option + Command + V, it appears to work for
| me. The Shift + Option modifiers doesn't seem to work with the
| right-click menu, but it does with the keyboard. For windows it
| may be Control+Shift+V.
| https://www.howtogeek.com/807223/ctrlshiftv-is-the-best-shor...
|
| Cheers!
| dylan604 wrote:
| See, that's just ridiculously backwards. If you want to paste
| something special, then you use paste-special. Otherwise,
| just paste the damn text like every other thing on the
| planet. Paset Special shouldn't do the normal/expected thing.
| It should do something other, _special_ , thing that is
| outside of the normal/expected thing.
| silksowed wrote:
| i enjoy sharing live copies of microsoft office documents for
| collab work with peers. it works fairly well as a shared file
| repo for simple things like powerpoint/excel. the purley chat
| functionality of teams needs work, but doesn't seem like to
| heavy a lift to accomplish long term. my experience with
| meetings has always been pleasant, the audio switches seamless
| when i connect my bluetooth audio and the meeting UI is solid.
| not sure i understand where all the hate comes from. works well
| enough when your company is already an MS office shop
| tester756 wrote:
| Chat.
|
| Teams' Chat is its weakest point.
|
| Slow (up arrow to edit message),
|
| Unstable (sometimes you cannot escape `` block),
|
| Sometimes it's hard to expand reaction emojis on latest
| message
|
| lack of code coloring unlike Discord
|
| ```sql
|
| SELECT * FROM
|
| ```
| bearjaws wrote:
| Not to mention call latency is 500ms+ consistently, living on
| East Coast USA...
|
| Teams calls have way more instances of cutting off and having
| to go "no you go first".
|
| It's absolutely pathetic, its basically like I am talking to
| someone in India over landline.
| PhasmaFelis wrote:
| > Discord is probably the only company that can make
| voice+chat+streaming software right.
|
| This made me chuckle ruefully. I mean, you're not _wrong._
|
| I'd describe Discord's UI as "okay" at best. It's missing some
| features that were standard in chat clients from _twenty years
| ago._ But it 's so much better than every other "collaboration"
| app out there that it looks stellar by comparison.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| I take it that Teams doesn't support Ctrl+Shift+V to paste
| without formatting? If so that's plain stupid.
| 369548684892826 wrote:
| Yes, this is the answer. Ctrl-Shift-V does paste without
| formatting in Teams, I use it every day!
| tester756 wrote:
| But why?
|
| The default behaviour that's used by like every other
| software is different than that.
|
| Seriously people who copy paste Excel tables to Teams are
| the majority?
|
| Cannot they just add edge cases for stuff like tables and
| leave normal text alone?
| 369548684892826 wrote:
| But I think this does match the default in other
| software. I'm sure if you copy/paste from Excel to Word
| the default would be the fully formatted table not plain
| text.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| I've checked Google Docs and Libre Office and they both
| use Ctrl+V for formatted paste, and Ctrl+Shift+V for
| unformatted paste (Libre office gives a menu to choose).
|
| I cant check MS word as I don't have it installed, but it
| seems to me that Teams is closer to using the default
| behaviour here.
| tester756 wrote:
| Google Docs and Libre Office are document editing
| software,
|
| Browsers (but it may be due to lack of support in
| controls?), Text Editors like Notepad++, Notepad,
| Discord, Textboxes do not behave like this
|
| Idk honestly.
|
| While I do expect format to follow between excel/word,
| then pasting it to other apps not something I expect.
| That's really rare case where I've found it useful.
|
| The most ridiculous situation is when you paste from docs
| to github and it creates screenshoot or some weird, giant
| xml that causes site to hang for 10sec
|
| Since that I'm heavily against programs messing with
| CTRL+V
| u801e wrote:
| The online chat experience is subjectively worse in the last 5
| years or so compared to how it was in the '90s, '00s, and early
| '10s. I don't have the issues the OP has, but I do have
| significant lag with text input when typing in Teams or Slack.
| This was never an issue with IRC clients, XMPP clients, or
| aol/msn/aim/yahoo/icq instant messenger clients. I'm not sure
| about screen sharing, but I do know that video chat was supported
| by later versions of the proprietary ones.
|
| At least screen sharing and video/voice chat works well on Zoom,
| even on Linux distros.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Worst part is Microsoft had Lync (not the post-skype reskin)
| which was a perfectly adequate office communication suite. The
| integration with the phone network was also quite nice.
| commandlinefan wrote:
| Same problem with Zoom video sharing - I often have to completely
| restart after a video call (which I do all the time these days).
| wishinghand wrote:
| I'm on a Windows laptop and use Teams for work. It's not as bad
| as the OP but still impressively substandard. Often times I won't
| be able to join a call and it'll freeze the entire program. I'll
| use ctrl+alt+delete to clear it from Task Manager and restart it
| and it still can't connect. A full reboot is needed.
| pronik wrote:
| Slack has been great for my company for about seven years now.
| There is a feeling that the development stalled a couple of years
| ago, probably due to Salesforce, Teams' market sweep and
| struggling to keep up with Discord's feature set, however, Slack
| still feels very polished for me -- a long time ago I've tried
| Mattermost and immediately noticed quite a lot of "paper cuts",
| tiny problems like wacky keyboard focus control that would be
| ignorable if I didn't know that Slack gets them right.
|
| Teams is a nightmare. Don't get me wrong: I like Teams just
| because it's not Office Communicator/Lync/Skype for Business
| anymore, i.e. I can actually chat with people, but it's abysmal
| in every other way. Just today, I tried copy&pasting a quote, so
| I typed in "> ", the quote box appeared, but I couldn't leave the
| box anymore (to add a comment to the quote). Moving around with
| keyboard, clicking with the mouse didn't help. I tried inserting
| a couple of empty lines before pasting and noticed that I can
| move down in the text with the down arrow key, but the up arrow
| key would switch me to the "edit previous message" mode. And this
| stuff is everywhere and I'm not even talking about elementary
| stuff like being unable to stay logged in into different
| workspaces in different browser tabs at the same time. I'm happy
| to be using Slack right now and it pains me immensely that their
| fate is basically set, since their enterprise market share has
| been mostly eaten by Teams, they are way behind by user count and
| it will get even worse with Google Chat on the rise (which
| probably sucks too, but haven't tried it).
| somecommit wrote:
| Teams is so annoying even on windows.
|
| Why when someone react on a chat message, opening the chat
| channel is not enough to dismiss the notification counter? No! I
| need to click on "Activity" tab. Here I see a list of my
| activities. The reaction is still here! Someone put an emoji on
| my text. I exult. Teams can now dismiss the notification
| counter...
| noSyncCloud wrote:
| Go to Settings > Notifications and turn off activity
| notifications for reactions. Significantly nicer experience.
| selykg wrote:
| You can fix that without going to activity.
|
| I hate it, but... goto the chat channel and click in it.
|
| I had someone on the team here send one, I was already in the
| chat and it still showed up in Activity. I just click in the
| message area and it goes away.
|
| I hate Teams. So much.
| gpderetta wrote:
| I still haven't figured out the logic behind dismissing
| notifications. Sometimes they just get stuck forever.
|
| But the worst bug is that from time to time the freaking
| arrow keys stop working in the edit box! Last time it
| happened to me it lasted weeks and survived reboots. I can
| find references to this issue from 2019.
|
| How can such basic functionality be broken I have no idea.
|
| Mind, it could be worse. It could be Webex.
| solarkraft wrote:
| Teams is worse on Windows, but so is everything, especially
| Microsoft apps for some reason. I find them to be annoyingly-
| glitchy-but-usable on macOS but entirely unusable on Windows.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| > Teams is worse on Windows
|
| For me, it has one killer feature it doesn't have on other
| platforms: it can use native notifications, as opposed to
| showing a random window.
|
| > but so is everything, especially Microsoft apps for some
| reason
|
| This reminds of the Remote Desktop client. Until maybe a year
| ago, when they've introduced a similar client for Windows,
| the best RDP experience to be had was hands down on the Mac.
| A close second was Remmina on Linux. Windows was a complete
| shitshow. In particular, it wouldn't support resizing a
| connection window once it was open (technically it did, but
| it wouldn't update the resolution of the remote end).
| hackmiester wrote:
| How do I get the new client for Windows? The one I'm using
| still looks basically unchanged from Windows 2000.
| bwat48 wrote:
| It's on windows store, called 'Microsoft Remote Desktop"
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| The activity notification issue is annoying.
|
| Also: how can you provide a wiki module that's not searchable?
|
| Teams feels to me like it's thrown together by a bunch of
| interns that are learning Agile. Keep changing things without
| any strategy.
| [deleted]
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| It's actually even more dumb: Teams does dismiss notification
| as they come into view. _As they come into view_. Notification
| is about a message you already see? Scroll away a little,
| scroll back again, bingo, notification dismissed. Works at
| least 90% of the time.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| My Teams installation for work isn't dismissing even messages
| nowadays (it updated recently). It never dismissed
| notifications just by viewing them.
|
| In fact, it doesn't even reliably _receive_ messages. At
| times there are days of delay from the message being sent to
| me receiving it.
|
| Anyway, no two people seem to have similar experiences with
| the application...
| gpderetta wrote:
| Sometimes it randomly misses entire bits of chat history.
| Once a colleague replied to an old chat message. I clicked
| on it and nothing happened. I scrolled up and I found out
| that I had an hole of 3 days on my history.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| The one thing I hate about Teams and Outlook on Mac is that it
| takes a full minute to convert a smiley face :) to the emoji
| equivalent. Sometimes it even crashes the apps.
|
| I haven't had this experience with Teams on my similar MBP 2016,
| but do experience it on a Surfacebook 2. I could never understand
| why these electron apps just destroy certain machines though. I'm
| not doing anything intensive on them. It would be lovely to have
| light-weight clients similar to mIRC just to do the daily
| chatting.
| adamrezich wrote:
| it's kind of wild that Teams is as bad as it is--doesn't it ship
| with Windows 11? it should be a first-class tool, but instead
| it's terrible. Discord, Slack, and countless other applications
| have figured out how to do markdownesque formatting, yet nine
| times out of ten I can't send a simple code block without
| resorting to using the "code snippet" button... but one out of
| ten times it works alright. baffling.
| Komodai wrote:
| > This was supposed to be the most kick-a$$ laptop at the time
| but Microsoft is slowly killing it with Teams.
|
| Made me laugh
| cyberpunk wrote:
| I love the way I have to restart it every few hours because it
| becomes impossible to alt*tab to it otherwise. I mean, alt tab
| and select teams and whatever you have open loses focus, but it
| doesn't actually switch to teams.
|
| Superb. 0/10 software.
| rienko wrote:
| To me this happens when the CPU starts throttling due to high
| temperatures, if you don't have something like menumeters
| installed it probably won't show itself on any other native Mac
| GUI.
|
| For a long time the workarounds I've used to deal with this
| issue:
|
| 1) Charge from the ports on the right! The charging circuit on
| the left aggravates the issue.
|
| 2) Disable turbo charge by setting the mac into low power mode
| inside system preferences -> Battery
|
| 3) Raise the computer from the table for increased air flow, and
| not be in contact with latent warm from the table. Which has been
| heated by the mac itself.
|
| 4) Lower AC temperature
|
| 5) Change the Fan Speed from Automatic (default) to fullblast, or
| make it sensor based but lower the min/max temperatures for the
| fans to start spinning faster 38-60 celsius
| ndrake wrote:
| I was having throttling issues with a new 4k monitor. Teams
| seemed to make the issue worse. Pointing an external USB
| cabinet fan at the laptop has resolved my issues.
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| On the plus side, deciding for a Mac-friendly project as a
| freelancer means I don't have to use Teams.
| vannevar wrote:
| Your Mac, and my soul.
| aaronyarborough wrote:
| I've developed such a deep-rooted, passionate, magmatic hatred
| for Microsoft Teams that I'm now infamous amongst my friends for
| my mini rants. I'm a freelance software consultant, and many of
| my clients have their own Microsoft Teams Teams (?), and there's
| no easy way to join and switch between multiple teams using the
| same account. Typing is slow, and literally _everything_ else is
| too, and video calls regularly bring my 2019 i7 MacBook Pro to
| its knees.
|
| If a witch approached me and told me she could make Microsoft
| Teams disappear for good at the cost of severing a finger
| (presumably for a potion...I've got no idea; I'm a developer, not
| a witch), I'd offer her two for the trouble.
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| A tell that Teams and HN users mostly are Americans. The biggest
| problem with Teams is that the volume is too low. Every other
| service has some sort of volume normalization. Teams still
| expects mainly loud mouths! Every Teams meeting has this talk
| louder segment. Does not happen with huddle, meet, zoom and so
| on.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Lol last time I had a company issued laptop Teams would consume
| so many resources my browser wouldn't even be able to open up
| again until I rebooted. Worst application of all time...
| CryptoBanker wrote:
| Teams will literally crash my 16 inch i9 Macbook Pro (2021).
| Failing that, it will drain the battery in an hour or two (even
| when nothing is happening on teams). God forbid I try to copy or
| paste some text on teams...
|
| Teams is an absolutely garbage app and platform....on a good day
| _fat_santa wrote:
| My company uses Teams (thank god for meetings only, we use
| Slack for chat) but it's become a running joke of sorts that I
| have to "drop for memory". At least once a week I'll be in the
| middle of the meeting and have to say: "sorry I have to drop
| and join again, Teams is eating my memory". For context I have
| a 16" MBP, i7, 16GB RAM.
| edgefield wrote:
| Teams chat seems to work fine on my 2021 MacBook Pro with M1
| processor. We typically use zoom for video calls. MS Outlook on
| the other hand frequently crashes. Maybe there's a memory leak
| issue?
| gnicholas wrote:
| My wife uses Outlook (but not Teams) on her 2021 M1 MBP and
| there is some sort of leak. Her SSD fills up with swap files
| or something, and restarting gives her back 90GB of space.
| Literally. It is crazy.
|
| I don't know if it's Outlook though. I have similar issues
| with my Intel MBP, and I don't use Outlook. I slowly drain
| from 20GB available down to 2, and then I have to restart.
| It's like living in the early 2000's, restarting all the
| time.
| tapanjk wrote:
| > MS Outlook on the other hand frequently crashes. Maybe
| there's a memory leak issue?
|
| Off-topic but I need to get this off my chest: Outlook on the
| web is a much better experience than the native app on the
| Mac.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I don't know if the native app on the Mac is the same as
| the Windows one, but the latter is absolute crap. It's sooo
| laggy. Sure, I don't have a 64 core thread ripper or other
| ridiculous CPU, but even on my 11th gen i7 work laptop, the
| webapp runs circles around the native app. Even on Firefox
| on Linux.
|
| However, they must have caught wind of this, because there
| have been some "improvements" recently, where they reduced
| the vertical screen space with an empty menu line, and it
| also feels a bit less snappy than before.
| anotheracctfo wrote:
| It isn't just a Mac issue. I had a i9 / 64GB Ram windows laptop
| which turned into a furnace when I ran teams. I've been doing a
| lot of work on the couch over the pandemic and it was too hot
| to set on my lap.
|
| I have since switched to a M1 macbook and it heats up too, but
| at least the processor is efficient so it doesn't become
| uncomfortable.
|
| These issues simply did not happen on either laptop with Zoom.
| Teams is simply a horribly written piece of crapware. MS should
| be ashamed of themselves.
| onetimeusename wrote:
| It works fine on Windows so you and your team will just have to
| switch to Windows on your PCs in order to continue using
| Microsoft's Office 365... /sarcasm
| hbn wrote:
| All the developers at my company have Macs and everyone else
| is given Windows laptops (mostly Surface Laptops and Pros)
|
| The Windows people have WAY more issues. The Mac experience
| isn't great but not nearly as bad as the Windows users.
| swasheck wrote:
| if i have the app open for longer than 4 hours the memory
| footprint bloats to 6GB. it's absurd.
|
| using the msedge webapp i _only_ bloat to about 2GB.
|
| edit: on my win10 machine
| lostlogin wrote:
| > It works fine on Windows
|
| No it doesn't.
|
| Video calls are worse than Skype or Google meets.
|
| The Word thing in Teams is buggy, 'open in app' leads to
| better behaviour but you can end up in version hell. The
| online Word version doesn't do the same things as Teams Word
| or the native app.
|
| As a test, try moving a picture or editing a footer.
| [deleted]
| bobkazamakis wrote:
| >It works fine on Windows like hell it does.
|
| crashes all the time. I actually had a better experience with
| it on Mac more often than Windows.
| lkois wrote:
| Am I the only person who likes teams? My company uses it
| heavily for text and video chats and I think it's pretty great,
| and don't get the bugs and slow performance issues of others. I
| wouldn't call it snappy, but still fine, and makes
| communications very easy.
|
| I'm using a surface laptop 3. Maybe MS did the apple thing of
| making software that only works properly on their own hardware
| neogodless wrote:
| I don't feel strongly one way or another.
|
| As another said, the dismissing of notifications is onerous.
|
| But I have no issues with performance, and no apparent
| bugginess either.
|
| No Surface here - custom AMD Ryzen / AMD Radeon desktop.
| Windows 10 Pro.
| hbn wrote:
| The video conferencing is pretty good. Everything else is
| horrible. It's so clunky and limited. Especially coming from
| Slack at my last job.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| Pretty great compared to what? I can make it usable, but
| Slack has always just worked.
|
| As an aside though, on Surface it was Google Meet that
| destroyed performance. I repeatedly got overheating warnings
| while in meetings.
| [deleted]
| wollsmoth wrote:
| Yeah I used it on a MBP for months before I left my last job.
| It struggled when a lot of people had their camera on but it
| seemed to improve over time. I wonder if it has to do with OS
| version or something. I didn't love it, but for video
| meetings it worked well enough for me.
| the_jeremy wrote:
| search feature is horrendous. Very difficult to remind
| yourself about something you know you talked about person X
| with.
| sgerenser wrote:
| I work for Microsoft (not on Teams). I actually don't mind
| Teams much, it does the job and doesn't seem much worse
| than Slack. But the crappy search is absolutely my biggest
| pet peeve.
| jiggawatts wrote:
| All Microsoft products have terrible search, Teams isn't
| exceptional in this regard.
|
| If you work at Microsoft, and have any influence on the
| WinDev team, please tell them that the Start menu search
| is simply shameful.
|
| There hasn't been a single major Windows release --
| server or client -- capable of consistently, reliably,
| and correctly finding start menu items. Worse, every
| major release is broken in new and creative ways. This is
| especially true for a fresh install, because apparently a
| 64-core server needs several days to index 500 KB of
| text. (Microsoft support told me this with a straight
| face, almost verbatim.)
|
| Seriously, what is that team _doing!?_
|
| Is this the same code that's in Outlook and Teams search
| too?
|
| It feels like it...
| InitialLastName wrote:
| For being descended from (and forcibly superseding) what
| was once the genericized trademark for video chat
| (Skype), it's pretty egregious that "not much worse than
| Slack" is the best Microsoft can do.
| mattnewton wrote:
| I think so? Everyone I know at companies that have bought it
| also had employee-lead efforts to buy slack and/or zoom, and
| employees use those instead, like Adobe for example. I
| haven't used it personally but I have only heard very
| negative things in my network.
| gabythenerd wrote:
| I use slack regularly at work, discord for gaming and teams
| at university. The worst of all 3 is teams by far, just the
| startup is too slow.
| croes wrote:
| MS software works on MS hardware with an MS OS. Who would
| have thought.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Copy pasting code snippets do not work in Teams. It randomly
| inserts nbsp.
| dham wrote:
| To be fair any app will crash the last Intel macs. They're
| probably one of the slowest computers in existence. You have to
| run fan control at full blast for it to even be usable.
| int_19h wrote:
| How does "slowest" translate to a crash?
| tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote:
| Not sure if I understand you properly, but if the entire
| operating system crashes due to one malfunctioning app then it
| sounds like a serious bug in the OS, right?
|
| I don't use Mac myself but these days the operating system is
| supposed to continue running even if some specific app does
| something stupid.
| pdx_flyer wrote:
| To be fair, Teams brings my Windows machine to a screeching halt
| as well. Macs aren't alone in the crappy Teams experience.
| INTPenis wrote:
| For the last 2 years that I've used teams on Linux it has had a
| constant issue, even across Pulseaudio and Pipewire. If a BT
| headset is connected when Teams starts it never shows up in the
| device list.
|
| I always have to killall teams thrice, wait a while for some
| cache to expire , because otherwise I start Teams and it's still
| logged in for a few minutes and will disconnect the middle of a
| call just to logout, and THEN start teams.
|
| And today was another nightmare, people complained about my mic
| quality, so I did a test call, sounded fine, killall teams
| thrice, restarted it, reconnected to meeting, sounds fine now.
| wtf...
|
| And besides that today alone Teams malfunctioned in at least one
| other way I can't remember now.
|
| So I love that Teams for Linux exists, but damn is it shit.
|
| My co-worker in the same call today also runs Linux but he runs
| wired so he has no complaints.
| an-allen wrote:
| Same for me. This only started happening in the last 4-6 weeks.
| Prior to that it was relatively stable.
| AtNightWeCode wrote:
| Teams is an Electron app. Hardly the first in line with poor
| performance. Why there is no better option than Electron in 2022
| for cross platform UI apps is a mystery. (VSCode is a fork...)
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