[HN Gopher] News engagement plummets as Americans tune out
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       News engagement plummets as Americans tune out
        
       Author : shaburn
       Score  : 49 points
       Date   : 2022-07-12 21:50 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | Yes, some of us have had enough, and we decided to walk away from
       | it. Enough people now realize that it's all BS for clicks.
        
       | bsenftner wrote:
       | We placed trust in News outlets, and they abused that trust to a
       | criminal, near civil war. Let them all go bankrupt.
        
         | spread_love wrote:
         | Glad to hear you don't read any news, presumably including the
         | link to CNBC you submitted.
         | 
         | What's your alternative?
        
           | betwixthewires wrote:
           | Not who you're asking, but my alternative is simply
           | interacting with people around me. I'll hear about basically
           | everything from someone running their mouth, half the time
           | it's their biases and bullshit spewing out, the other half
           | it's actual pertinent information. That's significantly less
           | biases and bullshit than if I followed news, and much less
           | time spent pretending to care, so it's a win for me.
        
             | spread_love wrote:
             | Oh, so hearsay. It's much less efficient to have to ask
             | multiple people for their summaries of the news every day
             | instead of reading a newspaper.
        
               | betwixthewires wrote:
               | The news is hearsay with a veneer of officialness.
               | 
               | I don't ask. You don't have to. If it's important you'll
               | hear about it passively. You'll also hear about
               | unimportant things, but far fewer unimportant things than
               | if you actively looked for pertinent information.
        
         | loudmax wrote:
         | Who do you trust instead?
        
           | overtonwhy wrote:
           | NPR and PBS
        
             | daveslash wrote:
             | I second this. I don't understand why you were down-voted.
             | Somebody asked a question about who _you_ trust and you
             | answered it directly. You didn 't ask, but I too trust NPR
             | & PBS.
        
           | djohnston wrote:
           | Generally long form content
        
       | 99_00 wrote:
       | >In some cases, engagement has fallen below pre-pandemic levels
       | 
       | In other words, in many cases it is back to normal levels.
        
       | georgebarnett wrote:
       | Once you realise that the "bad news" is not current events, but
       | rather a poor experience driven by chasing clicks instead of
       | quality, the reasonable response is to disengage from the machine
       | and go elsewhere.
       | 
       | A simple example is the number of new orgs still running daily
       | live blogs of current events trying to generate hype.
       | 
       | I expect if we looked elsewhere, there would be an uptick in
       | engagement in moderated, thoughtful sources such as podcasts,
       | substacks, etc (and of course plain social).
        
       | yomkippur wrote:
       | It's almost like people no longer trust the mainstream news
       | outlets and its not tough to see why:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fHfgU8oMSo
        
         | hahaitsfunny wrote:
        
       | AzzieElbab wrote:
       | all I see on news twitter is journalists engaging with each
       | other. no civilians are getting involved/harmed
        
       | ohiovr wrote:
       | There are few news stories I find worthy to open. "If it bleeds
       | it leads". For the most part, if isn't someone I know bleeding,
       | I'm skipping it. Also the share of so called news posing as
       | editorials makes it unworthy to open the vast lot of them. Also,
       | editorial or not, Its often about how unfair the left is treated
       | and I'm not interested in that any more. Tech wizz bang stories
       | aren't as interesting to me as it was in the past, mainly because
       | I've heard of it all (almost). Not interested in scandals of the
       | so called elite anymore because nothing ever comes from it,
       | usually.
       | 
       | Other so called news stories like that about inflation, isn't
       | news at all, we all know already. The stuff that is really news,
       | and really important, and really imminent, isn't covered because
       | it embarrasses the establishment. Should you point that out, you
       | are censored.
       | 
       | Funny how a business can survive without customers.
       | 
       | But that is just me.
        
         | tenpies wrote:
         | > "If it bleeds it leads".
         | 
         | Post-2016, the updated version is "If it bleeds and doesn't
         | make Democrats look bad, it leads".
         | 
         | See for example, the near-absolute muteness about the recent
         | Hunter Biden iCloud leak[1]. This is the son of a sitting POTUS
         | - who was just last week at the White House - demonstrably
         | putting himself in positions that are ripe for blackmailing and
         | corruption.
         | 
         | The same son sitting on Boards of private companies with huge
         | international exposure, and directly benefiting from the
         | terrible decisions being made at the White House.
         | 
         | It would be scandalous even in the most Banana of Republics -
         | but not in the US when its about the Democrats.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_iCloud_leak
        
       | rr888 wrote:
       | While I prefer boring politicians, Trump made for some
       | spectacular news headlines. I guess we're getting back to normal.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | I wonder if this is the beginning of the post crisis "high" using
       | the terminology of the fourth turning book. Perhaps the
       | generational shift are having people looking to be self-reliant
       | until those strong communities are rebuilt on trust.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | > The war in Ukraine, a series of deadly mass shootings, the Jan.
       | 6 hearings and the Supreme Court's revocation of abortion rights
       | haven't been able to capture the same level of attention spurred
       | by the onset of the pandemic and the 2020 election.
       | 
       | Did anyone see those comedy sketches on Instagram/TikTok about
       | the fake army draft guy standing around NYC recruiting people?
       | 
       | He got some pretty honest opinions from people about the idea of
       | going to the Ukraine, that mostly matches all of our
       | representatives actions.
       | 
       | Basically "fuck that"
        
         | mappu wrote:
         | Just a casual heads-up - https://time.com/12597/the-ukraine-or-
         | ukraine/
        
       | SnowHill9902 wrote:
       | If it's important enough it'll reach you.
        
         | ohiovr wrote:
         | Yes this is really true. One time a friend told me 3G was being
         | eliminated. 4 days later my phone stopped working.
        
           | phabricator wrote:
           | Exactly, why check for cars before crossing the road?
           | 
           | If it's dangerous enough, it'll hit you.
        
             | JoshCole wrote:
             | Ironically, crossing roads is an example of a time where
             | people tend to feel checking the news is stupid and
             | reckless. The reason being that it calls into stark
             | attention how a lack of awareness of your _actual_
             | surroundings impacts your safety.
        
               | phabricator wrote:
               | ...and a lack of understanding that your phone won't work
               | tomorrow can impact your safety. Presumably the phone was
               | near GP's _actual_ surroundings.
        
       | ceeplusplus wrote:
       | How much of this is just TikTok eating everyone else's lunch? You
       | don't post articles on TT as much as 15-60 second soundbites, so
       | presumably it wouldn't be included here. There's also more
       | "alternative" solo players as opposed to the big newspapers and
       | channels, since TT has better discoverability than YT and FB.
        
       | itqwertz wrote:
       | People miss Trump, even if they hated him. Biden has just been a
       | disaster and the news is no longer about the never-ending drama
       | that Trump could generate at will. Instead, we are given a
       | geriatric old man whose news headlines make the US look weak.
        
         | phabricator wrote:
         | Yes this is covered in the article, except with nuance.
         | 
         | > Instead, we are given a geriatric old man
         | 
         | You understand that Trump is a geriatric old man right? Well
         | over 65 when he got his first government job and nearly the
         | same age as Biden.
        
           | nervousvarun wrote:
           | Surely you understand the context though right? The
           | perception?
           | 
           | Trump was/is a pompous, bombastic, blow-hard, ignorant fool
           | but he's not falling off of bicycles and slurring his speech
           | like a stroke victim.
           | 
           | Well he probably was...but he managed to be lively enough
           | that when he did that wasn't the lasting impression he left.
           | 
           | Maybe Biden's milquetoast persona is what the country
           | needs...but it's not as newsworthy (which again is the
           | context here).
        
             | phabricator wrote:
             | In attack ads for Trump prior to the first time he lost the
             | popular vote, they just played clips of him being himself.
             | The clip of him mocking a disabled reporter, for example.
             | It didn't help our perception.
             | 
             | We had the most deaths-per-capita to COVID of any first-
             | world nation. I find that more embarrassing than falling
             | off a bike, and leaving of a lasting impression.
             | 
             | Trump didn't need to slur his words; when he said "bigly"
             | or misspelled "hamberger" on Twitter for the world to see
             | it didn't help our perception either.
        
         | betwixthewires wrote:
         | There's some pretty spicy news coming out about him and his
         | family right now, significantly more saucy than anything that
         | came out about Trump, but you won't see it on the news. And
         | there's proof of it all too, interestingly enough.
        
       | mberning wrote:
       | News isn't news anymore. What you get most often is activism,
       | propaganda, and doomsday blackpill bullshit. I don't need that in
       | my life.
        
       | ALittleLight wrote:
       | I like this simplified format that Axios has. Reading this
       | article I actually thought "This is good, I should check out more
       | from Axios." I then went to their homepage and by scrolling down
       | counted 11 out of their top 20 articles were about the January
       | 6th riots and an additional 2 or 3 were about Trump. Maybe this
       | is a problem the news has?
       | 
       | My neighborhood experienced rioters. They burned cars near my
       | house, broke windows, ransacked stores, vandalism, looting,
       | attacked people, my neighbors were on the streets with drawn
       | guns, the national guard was deployed, and on the same day our
       | police chief was literally kneeling in solidarity with the
       | rioters. Yet this incident, and countless like it across the
       | country, receded into the far distance almost immediately as far
       | as the media is concerned. An hours long protest turned riot at
       | the Capitol, where the only people killed were protesters by the
       | police? This dominates media coverage more than a year later?
       | 
       | What I'm really getting at is that media coverage seems
       | politically and ideologically driven to me. They want to shape
       | the opinion of their readers to match the political agenda. That
       | seems like a turn off to me.
        
         | bandyaboot wrote:
         | Did you actually see the people kneeling with the police chief
         | actively rioting?
        
         | spread_love wrote:
         | The seventh Jan 6 select hearing committee was _hours_ ago, why
         | wouldn 't a US-focused news site be running stories about it
         | today? It's the hero story for Newsmax, is that because of
         | their "ideology?"
         | 
         | It's all over Fox News too (granted they're also covering _'
         | The View' Hosts React to First Lady Jill Biden's Taco Comments_
         | which sounds very important).
        
       | lcuff wrote:
       | A senior trainer for a method of dealing with trauma once said he
       | didn't think the human nervous system has evolved to be able to
       | deal with the quantity of bad news that is pushed at us.
       | 
       | Thinking about it, evolutionarily we probably dealt with bad news
       | from within a 20 or 40 mile radius (two day's walk...). We are
       | inherently disposed to pay attention to bad news (the creature
       | that ate or mauled a guy in the next village may come this way).
       | Put stronger, it's an evolutionary advantage to pay attention to
       | bad news. But here in 2022, the bad news from thousands of miles
       | away is 99% irrelevant to my life or survival, but my eyeballs
       | get pulled in, and my nervous system gets overwhelmed unless I
       | make a conscious choice to pull away, which I personally do.
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | > We are inherently disposed to pay attention to bad news
         | 
         | Most of us, sure, but not all of us. Some people don't care
         | about bad news. You might argue that's not who we want to
         | select for, but in a noisy information environment, apathy is a
         | fitness function.
        
         | whimsicalism wrote:
         | A senior commentator at Hacker News (me) does not believe that
         | false beliefs are more prevalent today than in the past.
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | > the bad news from thousands of miles away is 99% irrelevant
         | to my life or survival
         | 
         | You reminded me of something. Before the latest US elections
         | me, an Italian, found myself in few discussions about Trump,
         | Biden at dinners with friends and family.
         | 
         | I then realized I've never found myself in a discussion about
         | elections of our city's mayor or province governor which were
         | infinitely more relevant to my daily life. Some of my friends
         | didn't even knew who the candidates were or the ideas they had.
         | 
         | Quite telling.
        
       | pcorsaro wrote:
       | There's a quote from this article under the Cable Viewership
       | section that I found interesting. "Cable viewership across the
       | three major cable news networks -- CNN, Fox News and MSNBC -- is,
       | on average, down 19% in prime time for the first half of this
       | year compared to the first half of 2021. Those losses skew
       | heavily toward CNN and MSNBC, which are down 47% and 33%,
       | respectively. Fox's ratings are up 12% in that six-month span."
       | 
       | That's a very weird, biased way of phrasing that. The two left
       | leaning news organizations are down quite a bit, but the right
       | leaning organization is actually up, but we're going to lump them
       | all together and make it look like they're all down at first
       | glance.
        
         | fullshark wrote:
         | When your team has control -> stick your head in the sand. When
         | the other team has control -> bathe in outrage.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Where does the bias come in? You would have to stop reading
         | literally mid-paragraph to be mislead.
        
           | computerphage wrote:
           | Sounds like it comes in the first half of the paragraph then
        
             | JoshCole wrote:
             | It? That? The? What are you talking about? It seems
             | hypocritical to imply that meanings ought to be understood
             | divorced from context while your own post doesn't meet the
             | standard.
        
             | pjbeam wrote:
             | The point of a paragraph is to thread together sentences
             | into meaning beyond that contained in them individually.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | That every given sentence, when extracted from context,
             | should be totally free of bias, is a ridiculous
             | expectation.
        
         | V__ wrote:
         | From an outside perspective, I always have to chuckle when
         | someone calls CNN, MSNBC left-leaning and FOX right-leaning.
         | One is a full-blown conspiracy-theory right-wing "news"
         | network, and the other two are just regular sensationalized
         | news channels. Does the US even have left-leaning news?
        
           | jquery wrote:
           | The overwhelming power of rural voters in America forces us
           | to pay respects to a lot of nonsense we could otherwise
           | ignore...
        
           | forinti wrote:
           | From the little I know of US media, I would guess The Young
           | Turks and Democracy Now! are probably the furthest left you
           | can go.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | > Does the US even have left-leaning news?
           | 
           | Nothing mainstream. The right wing is fond of calling the
           | other side communists, though in reality you could probably
           | fit every actual communist American into a single stadium.
           | America is a right-leaning country, there is no left to speak
           | of.
           | 
           | Though I suppose it might be fair to say that such constructs
           | only really matter within a single political system, so
           | "left" and "right" don't automatically have to be a
           | particular definition.
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | How can you defend MSNBC for being anything other than
             | left-leaning?
             | 
             | It's not always as _progressive_ as American progressives
             | would like it to be, but not being progressive[?] not left
             | leaning.
        
               | carbadtraingood wrote:
               | MSNBC fundamentally believes capitalism is good and
               | right. They are absolutely left of the Republican party,
               | but they are hardly left.
               | 
               | This is unfortunately a consequence of the two party
               | system in the States. We equate Democrats with Left and
               | Republicans with Right. Anything supportive of Democrats
               | gets labeled "left" even if the policies are really
               | centrist, pro capital ones. Because we don't really have
               | the language here to differentiate the Left and Democrats
               | in mainstream American parlance.
        
           | nsxwolf wrote:
           | American leftists have always shared the same view as you.
           | The left-leaning news networks are simply straight news,
           | unbiased, doing it right... and everything their ideological
           | opponents watch is far-right propaganda.
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | Which is hilarious because that's how everyone feels about
             | their particular taste (taste for bias) in their news.
        
               | nsxwolf wrote:
               | Self-identified conservatives understand that Fox News is
               | intentionally aligned with their ideology.
        
             | V__ wrote:
             | This is not my view at all. News can be
             | biased/sensationalized, even when it's neither left nor
             | right. CNN and MSNBC are (as far as I can tell) the tv
             | equivalent of clickbait. They are just (compared to the
             | extremes of FOX) centrist about it. The only thing I would
             | call straight news in the US would be PBS.
        
             | carbadtraingood wrote:
             | As a leftist who feels the Democratic party is a center-
             | right party, networks like CNN and MSNBC come across as
             | deeply biased but not particularly "left". Maybe Liberal,
             | but certainly not "Left".
        
           | OrangeMonkey wrote:
           | Who defines what bias a news organization have, and what
           | defines if that is a good call or a bad call?
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | Yes, I'm sorry if you don't agree but there's no reasonable
           | way of characterizing MSNBC other than "left-leaning".
        
             | carbadtraingood wrote:
             | Capital L Liberal leaning, maybe. Deeply biased and
             | sensationalist, absolutely. Not particularly leftist.
             | 
             | A Left leaning news source would be much more interested in
             | discussing the demands of workers, pushing for strong
             | labor, nationalization of corporations, etc. When Slavoj
             | Zizek becomes a newscaster somewhere, and the news is
             | talking about how important it is to eliminate landlords
             | then we can talk about left leaning news media.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | They are back to back sentences. Pretty bad attempt at
         | obfuscating. The first sentence claims data "across" all
         | channels, and the following sentence breaks it down.
        
           | starkd wrote:
           | But they included Foxnews in the first sentence where they
           | claimed it was down "across the board".
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Is that not what across the board means? There are 3 news
             | channels, all of them have to be added together for an
             | across the board measurement.
        
               | DiggyJohnson wrote:
               | Not at all - in my opinion.
               | 
               | "Across the board" means something closer "true in every
               | case". Though as I type this, I realize some people my
               | think of it as "in total."
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Note that "across the board" does not actually appear in
               | the article.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | You are right, that is what across the board means. I was
               | mixing up what the person who replied to me wrote with
               | what I wrote. Oops!
        
               | carbadtraingood wrote:
               | "Across the board" means "in every instance" not "in
               | aggregate", at least in my experience.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Yes, that is correct. I was misremembering what I read.
               | It was
               | 
               | "across the three major cable news networks"
               | 
               | Which I paraphrased as
               | 
               | "Across all the channels"
               | 
               | Which the person replying to me changed to
               | 
               | "Across the board".
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Note that "across the board" is not actually a quote here
             | (despite being in quotes).
        
             | spread_love wrote:
             | No, they said it is down "on average." That is true, and
             | immediately clarified in the following sentence.
        
         | datalopers wrote:
         | CNN and MSNBC quote viewership. Fox quotes ratings. Not the
         | same thing.
        
           | jquery wrote:
           | Hmm, I just noticed that. Can you elucidate the difference?
        
       | yablak wrote:
       | I stopped reading the news starting this week, and created
       | another Twitter handle for all politics and news related
       | follows... And I don't read it. The news is all depressing. The
       | options are either focus on daily life & donate to Dems/Ukraine
       | or... go out marching with antifa? There's no middle ground I can
       | see.
       | 
       | I can't listen to this but will just leave it here:
       | 
       | https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-it-could-happen-here-307...
        
       | robryan wrote:
       | It is pretty easy to keep on top of news, just occasionally
       | browse the headlines and pickup more narrow interest stuff via
       | social media.
       | 
       | Most things are just part of the 24 hour news cycle and don't
       | mean much of anything, certainly not worth sitting there with CNN
       | or similar on to get fed to you at a very slow pace and full of
       | ads.
        
       | imgabe wrote:
       | How many of the "news" articles are just worthless manipulative
       | clickbait and people have figured that out?
       | 
       | Check out r/saved your lick to see the nonsense headlines that
       | often have nothing to do with the story, which is then spread out
       | over 50 pages to show more ads.
        
         | carbadtraingood wrote:
         | I feel like "r/saved your lick" is more likely to be run by
         | deer who have opinions on where to find the best salt licks...
        
       | beckingz wrote:
       | Nature is healing!
       | 
       | And by that I mean everyone is just done with it all.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Those bars should have been left aligned. Right-aligning them
       | made them hard to read, due to convention.
        
       | godshatter wrote:
       | > News Engagement crashing 50% on Social
       | 
       | Thank the gods is all I can say. You could replace that headline
       | with "News Enragement crashing 50% on Social" and still be close
       | to the truth.
       | 
       | Anything that shows that we might someday be able to communicate
       | without toxicity is a positive sign.
        
       | spicymaki wrote:
       | I guess I am not the only one. I know it is ignorant and
       | irresponsible, but I have to tend to my mental health. I can be
       | of no help if I completely loose my mind. I now mostly get my
       | news from word of mouth sources. Wikipedia front page has a
       | decent low key summary of the news.
        
         | notjustanymike wrote:
         | We get the NYTimes weekend edition delivered, and that's been a
         | really healthy way to consume news. I read it over the course
         | of the week, often with a nice cup of coffee.
        
         | Dave_Rosenthal wrote:
         | If you think of world/local news simply as form of
         | entertainment that you don't enjoy, you'll feel no moral pain
         | from abstaining. I quit ~15 years ago and have no regrets.
         | 
         | However, I do think it's important to build a larger mental
         | model of the world than you get by just sitting in a room by
         | yourself. But I'd argue that the news is a terrible (biased,
         | emotional, and inefficient) way of building such a model. Far
         | better, for example, to spend a bit of time each month looking
         | into the large scale trends that are shaping your world,
         | country, and town.
        
         | georgebarnett wrote:
         | Its certainly not ignorant or irresponsible and if you feel
         | that way, I suggest its because that's the message the news
         | dealers want you to feel.
         | 
         | Dobelli sums it up best:
         | 
         | https://www.gwern.net/docs/culture/2010-dobelli.pdf
        
         | haolez wrote:
         | I'm doing exactly the same.
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | > I know it is ignorant and irresponsible
         | 
         | It's impressive that, as a society, we've conditioned people to
         | this. I don't read the news, I don't participate in social
         | media outside of forums and IRC, I don't donate, and I don't
         | vote. All things are things I used to do with regular
         | frequency. I was constantly stressed, tired, and depressed. It
         | was difficult to relate to people who had experiences outside
         | of what I was being fed on social media, it was hard to even
         | say I was happy at times because _someone_ wanted to remind me
         | that world was going to end.
         | 
         | All along the way you get these happy coaches who will tell
         | you, "It's a marathon not a race", "empathy exhaustion is a
         | thing", etc while also feeding you a machine of reactions to
         | make sure none of that was true. Even when you're disengaged on
         | purpose, there's societal pressure to stay engaged, and the
         | system knows how to wield that pressure with some level of
         | plausible deniability. It's far easier to tell someone who is
         | saying, "This is too much" that their choices put them at
         | fault; after all, they didn't _have_ to read that next
         | reactionary opinion.
         | 
         | These are all experiences with my hypothetical in-group, not
         | even the categorical "threat". Yet, I wasn't ignorant. In fact,
         | I would read on events - just not as they're happening, and not
         | at a news website. You'd be surprised at the number of people
         | who focus on writing thoughtful post-hoc analysis on actual
         | collected facts - Wikipedia is one such source, as you
         | mentioned. As for irresponsible, your ultimate responsibility
         | is to keep yourself healthy. If you are not here, you cannot
         | affect the world in any positive way - regardless of your level
         | of input or listening. Anyone that tells you to do something
         | detrimental to yourself on purpose is not _actually_ looking
         | out for your best interest.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | I follow the news but don't get it from social media or read or
         | engage in comment sections (except here).
        
         | Zanneth wrote:
         | Wikipedia's "Portal:Current events"[1] page is a relatively
         | good source of news that is boring/balanced.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events
        
         | icelancer wrote:
         | > I know it is ignorant and irresponsible
         | 
         | I am guessing you're just saying this so you don't get flamed
         | by the concern trolls of the Internet who say you must be
         | engaged, but in the case you actually feel this, it's not true
         | at all. You don't owe your attention and reaction to the news
         | to anyone.
         | 
         | Do any good in life for others less fortunate or in need and
         | know that's more than thousands of hours of watching CNN
         | coverage of Ukraine-Russia conflict or Roe v. Wade being
         | rehashed the 76th time.
        
           | konschubert wrote:
           | In a democracy, citizens have a moral obligation to be
           | informed enough to make a qualified decision at the ballot
           | box. There are also other ways than voting to influence
           | political decision making in a democracy, which requires
           | citizens to be informed and educated.
           | 
           | This doesn't require checking the news daily, but maybe at
           | least once a month?
        
             | ajdegol wrote:
             | Laudable, but being informed from any source is fraught.
        
             | blix wrote:
             | > In a democracy, citizens have a moral obligation to be
             | informed enough to make a qualified decision at the ballot
             | box.
             | 
             | Even if you accept this is true, I have a hard time
             | believing that 'following the news' actually achieves this
             | in any substantial way. If anything, it may have the
             | opposite effect, as ad-driven sensationalism selects for
             | disjointed, short-term stories with large emotional impacts
             | over those which enable readers to form far-seeing,
             | rational, coherent world-views.
        
               | icelancer wrote:
               | It's also generally not how people vote anyway. People
               | primarily vote based on their virtues, morals, and issues
               | that they perceive to be important and correct. The news
               | certainly has an impact, but not that much after they're
               | adults.
               | 
               | At some point watching the news is purely entertainment
               | at best, and a way to feel better than others by being
               | more informed at worst.
        
               | epolanski wrote:
               | > primarily vote based on their virtues, morals, and
               | issues that they perceive to be important and correct.
               | 
               | You wish.
               | 
               | People have always voted with their guts and feelings,
               | much less with their brain.
        
               | enumjorge wrote:
               | Imagine a scenario where one the local officials you
               | voted for is caught misusing city funds. I'd imagine you
               | want to know this come election time. How else does
               | democracy work, if voters don't know what happened?
               | 
               | I'm not saying that what currently passes for news is a
               | good solution, but I feel like a lot of people sort of
               | throw the baby with the bathwater and justify completely
               | detaching themselves from what's happening because news
               | are heavily flawed. They are, and I don't blame anyone
               | person from taking a break, but it doesn't scale. If a
               | large percentage of the population does it it causes
               | problems.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | I can't think of anything useful I've ever learned from a
             | major news outlet. I generally feel like they actively
             | drain my IQ points.
             | 
             | NPR or a good magazine, yes. The news described in this
             | article? No.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | I mean, maybe? What about our gerrymandered system (edit:
             | in the US) is democratic? Senators and governors? Most of
             | those have a lock on their votes, both among expected and
             | registered.
             | 
             | I have voted every election that I can physically do so,
             | but at some point you hit the margin described in the myth
             | of the rational voter.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Following some news is important, but nationally things are
             | so ridiculously polarized that a majority of the population
             | could get by with just checking in once a month or so.
             | 
             | Locally -- most people live in solid red or blue states, so
             | if they want to go the extra mile, they could check if
             | there's anyone worth voting for in their local red/blue
             | party primaries.
        
             | prettydeep wrote:
             | The only moral obligation a citizen has in a free republic
             | is to not violate the rights of fellow citizens. Beyond
             | that, you should be free to live your life as you choose,
             | including being apolitical and ignoring the news. It may
             | not be the smartest position to take for maintaining your
             | freedoms, but it is a morally valid one.
        
             | marginalia_nu wrote:
             | Most of what's in the news isn't really news though. It's
             | analyses of news, that turn out to very often just be
             | speculation. Newsworthy events come around like, a couple
             | of times a year. Most of the rest is just gossip.
             | 
             | Last couple of years, I've seen talking heads projecting
             | among other things:
             | 
             | * Covid has a 10% mortality rate
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by march 2020
             | 
             | * Covid is just a flu
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by summer 2020
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by fall 2020
             | 
             | * Trump will join the QAnon protesters
             | 
             | * Trump won the election by a landslide
             | 
             | * Trump will refuse to step down and become a dictator
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by 2021 when the vaccinations get
             | started
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by summer 2021
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by fall 2021
             | 
             | * Covid will blow over by winter 2021
             | 
             | * Putin is just saber rattling, he will not invade Ukraine
             | 
             | * Ukraine will fold like a house of cards
             | 
             | * The Russian convoy will be stuck in the mud forever and
             | it's all Putin's got
             | 
             | * Sanctions will defeat Putin any moment now
             | 
             | * The Russians will turn on Putin
             | 
             | * The Russian Oligarchs will turn on Putin
             | 
             | * Putin will be defeated by April 2022
             | 
             | * Putin will be defeated by Summer 2022
             | 
             | If this is where you get your understanding of the world,
             | I'm not even sure it's a net positive. You might just walk
             | away with a less accurate understanding of things than if
             | you simply weren't told about these things.
        
             | maerF0x0 wrote:
             | There's many other ways to make an informed choice.
             | 
             | Books, develop a moral compass, talk with experts or even
             | trusted friends, observe what is happening in your area and
             | act in good faith to become involved.
             | 
             | IMO I'd trust the vote of someone who volunteers with the
             | poor over someone who just watches $BIGNEWS each night
             | 
             | Making a good choice is more than having data, it's about
             | having wisdom of what even matters in life and which data
             | even matters for moving towards that good life. The news
             | cannot tell you what is Good.
        
             | robryan wrote:
             | Efficiency wise you could probably just put in a day or 2
             | of catch up before going to vote. Would probably actually
             | get a more impartial view on candidates not tainted by
             | whatever the latest controversy is that will be forgotten
             | in a week.
        
             | icelancer wrote:
             | > In a democracy, citizens have a moral obligation to be
             | informed enough to make a qualified decision at the ballot
             | box.
             | 
             | Millions of people are ignoring that advice currently, and
             | unlike action - say, giving to those in need or
             | volunteering your help - a single vote doesn't spur any
             | change; lost to the margins of error.
             | 
             | I personally think many people hide behind voting as their
             | civic duty as a way to get out of action and helping those
             | in need, especially those who are local.
             | 
             | Sure, voting is fine. I do it. It doesn't much matter given
             | the city, county, and state I live in (Seattle, King
             | County, Washington State) since you can guess how issues
             | are quite easily litigated and voted upon, but I'll learn a
             | little bit about the stuff on the ballot and cast my vote.
             | I also don't really think it does much; I mostly do it to
             | silence those who think not voting is some cardinal sin.
             | 
             | Helping those in your neighborhood with food security,
             | transportation, or access to information/services makes an
             | impact that day for that person. They don't much care who
             | you voted for. Little Free Pantries and Little Free
             | Libraries are a great way to get started with hyperlocal
             | giving, if anyone is looking for a way to help locally and
             | disconnect nationally/globally from events that you have
             | vanishingly little (I'm being generous) control over.
        
         | flobosg wrote:
         | > Wikipedia front page has a decent low key summary of the
         | news.
         | 
         | Then you might like Legible News (https://legiblenews.com/),
         | which uses Wikipedia's Current Events portal.
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | There's a high correlation between following news and feelings
         | of anxiety and depression.
         | 
         | At the beginning of 2022 I decided to quit reading news, I
         | realized that it took between 3 and 7% of non-sleeping time and
         | added nothing to my life.
         | 
         | Spent two great months, then Russia invaded Ukraine and I went
         | back to norm.
        
         | shusaku wrote:
         | I really like Tangle News. I get a 10 minute summary of
         | political happenings in the US every day. Reading through that
         | keeps me in the loop but doesn't try and pull you down the
         | outrage rabbit hole.
        
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