[HN Gopher] 40 years ago, Tron changed sci-fi movies
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       40 years ago, Tron changed sci-fi movies
        
       Author : bryanrasmussen
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2022-07-12 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fatherly.com)
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | I feel Tron was a masterpiece of style, art direction and graphic
       | design. The color palettes are incredible.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The music as well, which famously uses 7/8 meter:
         | https://youtu.be/gWEU5apbY0E?t=38s
         | 
         | There's also an 8-bit homage to the soundtrack:
         | https://youtu.be/NzRWXn5KNFI
        
           | olivermarks wrote:
           | Much as I personally like the Wendy Carlos Tron work, I've
           | got a feeling it didn't resonate with Disney audiences and
           | that really hurt the film at the box office. The visuals were
           | really slick but the music was very jarring and sometimes
           | discordant for people used to saccharine soundtracks...
           | 
           | https://www.wendycarlos.com/+tron.html
        
       | mrandish wrote:
       | TRON was technologically notable because it was the first wide-
       | release film to extensively use high-res CGI. Getting high-res
       | electronic images transferred cleanly to film was still being
       | figured out. I remember reading in an effects magazine about how
       | they cobbled together a workflow to get images from the 4096 line
       | frame buffer onto film.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | This was mind-blowing to watch as a kid:
       | https://youtu.be/jyqS4IS7h8Y
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Yup, especially when ones only exposure to computer graphics
         | were things like Space Invaders and Asteroids. Definitely next
         | level.
        
         | gfxgirl wrote:
         | I love the movie, but just FYI, pretty much every scene with
         | people in it is not CGI. It's hand draw backgrounds and tripled
         | exposed live actors who were then physically hand compositied
         | together
         | 
         | Watch a makng of movie to see
         | 
         | There's pleny actual CGI like the light cycles, the recognizer
         | scenes, the MCP, the light sail.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | What was mind-blowing was the aesthetics, and the concept of
           | being "beamed" or digitized into a computer. I didn't care a
           | lot as a kid what was CGI or not.
        
             | gfxgirl wrote:
             | neither did I. Only passing on how amazing it is that so
             | much was hand made. Example, in the clip above: 2:15 to
             | 3:10 and 4:35 to the end there's no CGI but it looks like
             | CGI
        
           | usrusr wrote:
           | The aesthetic choices for those "not CGI" scenes rarely get
           | the praise they deserve. That high contrast b/w film stock
           | that looks like straight out of something Fritz Lang if you
           | ignore the neon overlays, brilliant. That's why it's aging so
           | well, it simply does not look as "1982" as it could have, it
           | looks like the entire history and future of movies at once.
           | 
           | Perhaps the most important role of the CGI is that of a
           | distraction, because aesthetic choices like that tend to work
           | best when you are not aware of them.
        
         | LaserDiscMan wrote:
         | I distinctly remember being mesmerized by this scene at the
         | time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kyiQzc4134
         | 
         | Super Mario 64 was a similar experience of "wow, this is new!".
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Tron led me to code a 2D version of the lightcycle game on
           | the C64, but it was super slow because I didn't know assembly
           | :). I then added random obstacles to the playing field to
           | make it more interesting. A good friend later wrote
           | Armagetron.
        
       | js2 wrote:
       | Semi-related:
       | 
       | TANK - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEdQ3mwyrQ4
       | 
       | And how it was made:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRkYP7wnD40
        
       | W-Stool wrote:
       | When Tron was first released I was in a grad level computer
       | graphics class at a university in the USA midwest. I convinced
       | our rather stuffy professor to take the class across the street
       | to the "Cinema Twin" and watch the movie. In those days computer
       | graphics consisted of mostly pen plotters and Tektronix vector
       | displays - pretty dry stuff, lots of theory in the class but not
       | much interesting output was generated. To say the collective
       | minds of the class were blown away by the movie would be an
       | understatement. In its own way it showed the future of CGI and
       | what the this domain could look like. If you haven't seen it
       | lately, give it spin - it holds up well.
        
         | retcon wrote:
         | Precisely because of the minimal gfx world I can't imagine it
         | ageing. Ironically I think it's possible only Disney of the
         | major studios could have understood the necessity as well as
         | potential of audience imagination to fill out the emotional
         | picture.
        
           | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
           | Yes. Tron still looks good, while Polar Express already does
           | not.
        
             | WorldPeas wrote:
             | I take your polar express and raise you blade(1998)
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | So what was the professor's take on it?
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | "Call me when they can do shaded polygons" :)
           | 
           | IIRC James Clarke (who developed the early graphics chips SGI
           | was famous for) said something like "reality is just 80M
           | polygons a second" (at least, in a gross approximation of how
           | the real world is presented to our neuro-optical system).
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | They did better than that and had curves as well. See the
             | multiple youtube links on this page.
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | I think I'm jaded, but even when I saw Tron originally, I
               | was only modestly impressed with the CGI. It felt very
               | wire-framey (similar to the Star Trek II genesis
               | sequence) to me, even if (as you say) it had curves and
               | filled polygons.
               | 
               | After some time working in computer graphics I realized
               | that what I really needed/wanted was renderman and an
               | entire team of animators/technical directors, circa 2010.
               | So, basically subsurface scattering, monte carlo
               | sampling, many light sources, rich models and textures.
               | Obviously, none of that was really accessible at the time
               | Tron or Star Trek II was made, but those movies opened
               | the path for the necessary brain and money investment to
               | make the Pixar rendering computer and the rest is
               | history.
        
               | sammalloy wrote:
               | > I think I'm jaded, but even when I saw Tron originally,
               | I was only modestly impressed with the CGI.
               | 
               | You're being downvoted, but most of us who saw it when it
               | was originally released were not impressed. My thinking
               | on this is because we were searching for a different
               | aesthetic, likely what we would see much later with
               | Avatar. However, today, the Tron aesthetic has come back
               | in a big way as a retro art style. This is not
               | surprising. It may very well be the case that as
               | contemporaries of the original Tron, it was not intended
               | for our generation, but for the ones who would come
               | later. Perusing art history, this seems to be very much
               | the case. Most generations do not properly appreciate the
               | art from their own time, either because they can't or
               | they are too focused on their own personal vision of what
               | art should be. I can't tell you what the real reasons for
               | this are, but I think that the audience is a prisoner of
               | their time, while the artist has more freedom with their
               | vision to see farther than the species is able to do on
               | the level of the group, which is confined by the herd and
               | the status quo.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | There's a short part of the solar sailer sequence with
               | various landscapes that I always found particularly
               | impressive for the time:
               | https://youtu.be/8ruRruqKf5M?t=2m32s (the music isn't the
               | original in that clip)
               | 
               | For a long time I thought the sandy planes were a
               | mandelbrot-like set, but it's really a Mickey Mouse logo.
               | :)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _Tron changed cinema, predicted the future of tech_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32033622 - July 2022 (107
       | comments)
        
       | js2 wrote:
       | > While The Last Starfighter would push the boundaries of
       | computer-generated special effects two years later.
       | 
       | Glad this got a mention. It may be cheeseball, but I can watch
       | TLS even today and suddenly I'm 12 years-old again.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | "Greetings, Starfighter. You have been recruited by the Star
         | League to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-dan
         | Armada."
        
       | mikey_p wrote:
       | It's been more than 40 years, but for some reason I thought
       | Disney's weirdest failure would have been The Black Hole.
        
         | chiph wrote:
         | They got so much right with that film. And so much wrong. It
         | could stand a remake, or even a sequel where the Cygnus
         | reappears after surviving it's apparent destruction.
        
           | LaserDiscMan wrote:
           | Although different in many ways, I think Event Horizon shares
           | some similarities with The Black Hole. The Gothic style of
           | the ship, the setting, the plot etc...
        
         | remoquete wrote:
         | I was about to say that but... Turns out TBH grossed 35 million
         | dollars, more than its cost.
        
         | tcbawo wrote:
         | Another strange failure for Disney was the Black Cauldron.
         | Although, I knew it wouldn't have impacted science fiction.
        
       | Legion wrote:
       | > It also had the misfortune of trying to compete with two other
       | huge sci-fi blockbusters in the summer of 1982: Star Trek II: The
       | Wrath of Khan and E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial.
       | 
       | I miss when "summer blockbuster" meant something other than the
       | 40th Marvel comic movie and the 20th DC comic movie.
        
         | Gibbon1 wrote:
         | Blade Runner totally got hammered by those three.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | Wow, '82 was a year for sci-fi:
           | 
           | E.T.
           | 
           | Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
           | 
           | TRON
           | 
           | Blade Runner
           | 
           | The Road Warrior
           | 
           | ...and Fantasy:
           | 
           | Raiders of the lost Ark ('81 release, but stayed in the
           | theater for 80 weeks)
           | 
           | Conan The Barbarian
           | 
           | The Secret of NIMH
           | 
           | The Last Unicorn
           | 
           | Beastmaster
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | > the 40th Marvel comic movie
         | 
         | This is exactly how they lost me. I have no idea which ones
         | I've seen and which I haven't, because from the title or a
         | little blurb, they tend to smudge together. So rather than
         | watching repeats, I just quit.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | The 2010 Tron movie has a good bit of outdoor Vancouver, BC in
       | it, standing in for whatever generic American city it's supposed
       | to be set in.
       | 
       | Fairly typical example of Hollywood North re-dressing a city to
       | match its needs.
       | 
       | The building with the parachute base jump is actually the
       | Shangri-La condo tower downtown.
        
         | gnulinux wrote:
         | > generic American city
         | 
         | Hmm, it's imho inaccurate to put it that way. I don't think
         | there is a single "generic city" in the US. I think most
         | American villages, towns and small cities look and feel the
         | same (they all have the same CVS, Walgreens etc, you need a
         | car) but when it comes to big cities, US cities are vastly,
         | _vastly_ different. Living in NYC feels nothing like living in
         | Boston, which feels nothing like SF, which feels nothing like
         | LA etc... When someone says  "generic American city" I really
         | can't think of any streotypes... E.g. you can say American
         | cities are very car-centric which is 100% correct for e.g. LA.
         | But e.g. NYC and Boston ([1]) are very much the opposite, where
         | arguably it's more comfortable to live _without_ a car
         | (especially the case in Manhattan or Cambridge). Just a few
         | data points, I realize this is not a very important discussion.
         | 
         | [1] I was told Chicago is like this too, unfortunately never
         | lived there myself.
        
           | pchristensen wrote:
           | Not the original commenter, but I presume they meant that if
           | the location of the city isn't important to the story, then
           | filmmakers can use buildings, streetscapes, etc to convey
           | "city" without conveying "New York" or "Chicago". It didn't
           | come off as disparaging American cities in general.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | I don't know that Tron (2010) actually specifies any city
           | name, so it's left up to the viewer's imagination what US
           | city it's supposed to be. _Presumably_ ENCOM is a US company
           | and their  "headquarters" tower is supposed to be somewhere
           | in the USA.
        
             | schlauerfox wrote:
             | Flynn's arcade exterior is in Culver City, California.
             | Right around the corner from the hotel the actors for the
             | Munchkins of The Wizard of Oz (1939) stayed.
        
       | systemBuilder wrote:
       | I remember it well (I was 20). It was a very boring movie. I
       | think it's famous just for being 1st, i guess they poured all the
       | money into the CGI because it's a 2-star story.
        
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