[HN Gopher] Photos Always Pointing at the Pointer (2012)
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       Photos Always Pointing at the Pointer (2012)
        
       Author : Gedxx
       Score  : 398 points
       Date   : 2022-07-12 13:27 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pointerpointer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pointerpointer.com)
        
       | readingnews wrote:
       | This could be a serious time sink for someone. After just a few
       | moments I was like "wait, I am going to sit here and keep moving
       | this mouse... must leave".
       | 
       | Seriously though, I wonder where it pulls the images from...
       | seems like a lot of parties and drinking.
        
         | quenix wrote:
         | It looks like it "cheats" sometimes.
         | 
         | It reuses pictures by zooming and moving the entire picture
         | around until the point position and cursor position match.
        
           | epalm wrote:
           | Sounds like a feature, not a bug.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | This is hilarious
        
       | goatcode wrote:
       | I wonder what is the worst picture in its source. I managed to
       | find a bird being flipped in one (as the pointing finger). How
       | deep does this rabbit hole go?
        
       | p5v wrote:
       | Ehh, the good old college party years :)
        
       | EForEndeavour wrote:
       | I'd never seen this. So cool!
       | 
       | After an image loads, you can resize your browser text (Ctrl + /
       | Ctrl -) to instantly reveal a different image with each resize
       | event. By sweeping through very small and very large zoom levels,
       | you can make peoples' fingers trace out a diagonal line from top-
       | left to bottom-right as the registered point moves with the
       | underlying voronoi canvas as it scales up and down.
       | 
       | Side note: how hard would it be to reduce the time delay between
       | identifying a point and displaying an image? Could this be made
       | realtime by preloading all images? The flicker would be terrible
       | but I'd want to try it at least briefly.
        
         | dspillett wrote:
         | _> how hard would it be to reduce the time delay between
         | identifying a point and displaying an image_
         | 
         | Easy, I expect. I assumed there were two reasons for the delay:
         | 
         | * Simply a transfer delay, though even for images not seen
         | before I'm only seeing between 20ms and 80ms in total for that
         | each time (though it does seem to request each twice).
         | 
         | * Debouncing, to avoid requesting many images needlessly while
         | a user moves the mouse around the page.
         | 
         | * For show, to make it look like it is doing something more
         | clever that requires noticeable processing time!
         | 
         | All but the transfer delay can be removed easily as I think
         | they are put in deliberately, and the transfer+render delay is
         | short enough not matter for what you describe wanting to try.
        
         | ksala_ wrote:
         | As for the other comment, there is an artificial 2s delay
         | between image loads. It might be to reduce the load on the
         | server, or just to make it seems like it's doing more work than
         | it is.
         | 
         | A very hacky way to remove it (I'm sure there are better ways!)
         | is to redefine the setTimeout function to just ignore the delay
         | and call the function directly. Open the console and type
         | setTimeout = (x => x())
         | 
         | On a fast connection with this loading it's almost immediate -
         | it's pretty cool to just drag your cursor across the screen.
         | 
         | But yes, the flicker is pretty bad. This is not handled very
         | well (as expected), it would be nice if it tried to "stick" to
         | one image for a few ms instead of flickering between the same
         | two while moving.
        
       | SilasX wrote:
       | There were too many NSFW/L photos with no warning. For me, 2/3
       | before I gave up.
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | Are you talking about people who appear inebriated? Because
         | that's all I saw. Nothing truly NSFW. Just went back for
         | another dozen. No inappropriate skin showing, no illegal
         | activities (unless, of course, there are underage people
         | drinking, but it's hard to tell that for sure.)
        
           | SilasX wrote:
           | Male lifting up his shirt, which, while not obscene, is also
           | not SFW. Another picture had a bloody finger.
           | 
           | I don't know why people seem to be so incredulous/outraged at
           | my observation. Is it that hard to believe such pictures made
           | it into the set? Am I supposed to be supporting the team
           | here?
        
             | furyofantares wrote:
             | Although your description doesn't sound like anything I'd
             | expect most people to call NSFW/L, if it is for you then
             | yeah I don't think you should browse it from work. FWIW I
             | think you also got real unlucky on the ratio, I did quite a
             | few and didn't come across any blood and only one male
             | nipple
        
             | dspillett wrote:
             | _> I don 't know why people seem to be so
             | incredulous/outraged_
             | 
             | I think you are overreacting to a reaction that barely
             | exists there. It looks like one person has responded (at
             | the time I'm writing this) and while they didn't agree with
             | your assessment, they stated so quite calmly rather than in
             | a manner I would call outrage. Unless you have been
             | inundated by personal messages that I can't see?
             | 
             | There was a lass in a bikini, but even that is safe for my
             | work. If your work is pretty strict about images of these
             | natures, I would suggest refraining from browsing non-work-
             | related sites at all until you are at home or at least on a
             | device that is not using the corporate network.
             | 
             | [edit: having had a scan through the images (someone posted
             | a link to where they are all visible) there are a couple of
             | people flipping the bird too, those might get a reaction if
             | the bikini does]
             | 
             | HN itself is pretty much SFW (aside from some comments, but
             | they get downvoted to oblivion or otherwise hidden pretty
             | quickly) but IIRC makes no guarantee that anything linked
             | from it will be likewise.
        
               | SilasX wrote:
               | I wasn't looking at it from work, I don't have an office
               | job right now (see profile).
               | 
               | Perhaps you just weren't aware that neither of those
               | things are prerequisites to warning others about the high
               | probability of seeing such images? You're allowed to care
               | about SFW/L beyond work contexts, and it's helpful to
               | alert others who might care.
               | 
               | It feels like an attempt at invalidation when you expect
               | someone to _not even be able to warn others about
               | content_ simply because _some_ people might not care
               | about whether it's in that category. Hence why it comes
               | across to me as outrage: you have to feel pretty strongly
               | to oppose a mere warning.
               | 
               | It's kind of funny how common trigger warnings are, but
               | when I mention the possibility of an image set being
               | surprisingly unfiltered and having frequent NSFW/L
               | content, I have to rehash the entire concept.
               | 
               | Also, I would say your work is unusually lax if you see
               | nothing wrong with pulling up bikini images there.
               | (Similarly unusual deficit of empathy, while we're at
               | it.)
        
               | dspillett wrote:
               | I did not object at all to you raising what you feel is a
               | valid warning. Nor, as far as I see did the other poster,
               | they simply disagreed politely.
               | 
               | My comment about you overreacting wasn't about the
               | definition of what is/n't safe for work/life, but that
               | you referred to one polite disagreement as "people being
               | outraged".
               | 
               |  _> Also, I would say your work is unusually lax if you
               | see nothing wrong with pulling up bikini images there._
               | 
               | Deliberately pulling up such images, perhaps for the
               | purposes of ogling them, would be inappropriate.
               | Happening upon them while taking a break and looking as
               | at random site would not, any more than there would be an
               | issue with such an image coming up as you browse a
               | newspaper that happens to have an image of that sort
               | illustrating an article about the current heatwave, or
               | some holiday offer, or a beech fashion event. Sensible
               | rules have room for context.
               | 
               |  _> (Similarly unusual deficit of empathy, while we're at
               | it.)_
               | 
               | I find your comment on empathy ironic, given the rest of
               | this bit of thread!
        
               | SilasX wrote:
               | >I did not object at all to you raising what you feel is
               | a valid warning. Nor, as far as I see did the other
               | poster, they simply disagreed politely.
               | 
               | If you're saying that people are wrong to not want a
               | massive bloody finger or a drunken flashing photo on
               | their screen, then yes, you are objecting to the warning,
               | and you are showing an empathy deficit. Sorry, where was
               | the irony you claimed to see? Because as far as I can
               | tell, I have empathy for people who don't want those
               | images on their screen, while you don't.
               | 
               | Generally speaking, I imagine there's a high threshold
               | for objecting to a mere warning (the point about triggers
               | you ignored), so I assumed if anyone were actually
               | disputing that this merited a warning, they believed the
               | wrongness of my comment met that threshold. But sure, I
               | was wrong to assume anyone thinks that far ahead or tries
               | to be consistent.
        
           | Akronymus wrote:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32070771 Maybe check out
           | the image I got?
        
       | mauriciolange wrote:
       | Good point!
        
       | nalinidash wrote:
       | Oh...here is an exception https://imgur.com/a/In4MtJY
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | I got that image earlier. You're getting a crop on mobile but
         | there's a guy out of frame on the left who is pointing across
         | the image.
        
           | ASalazarMX wrote:
           | Yup. Some apparent misses are because the images are zoomed,
           | so they can be shifted and reused with different coordinates.
           | Unfortunately some images end up with the pointing finger out
           | of frame.
        
       | toyg wrote:
       | This would be useful if only I could save the resulting image
       | somehow, and reuse it in my presentations / memes.
        
       | bbbbbenji wrote:
       | Well, it's not wrong: https://i.ibb.co/8sydp6V/Screenshot-
       | from-2022-07-12-16-23-59...
        
       | ImJasonH wrote:
       | Some people would call this pointless, but I obviously disagree.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pkdpic wrote:
         | Yeah those people are the worst. This project rules.
        
         | bestouff wrote:
         | I see your point.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | It's very clear what direction this conversation has taken.
        
             | EGreg wrote:
             | I had some pointed criticism of this thread but I'll keep
             | it to myself. I'll limit myself to asking: are the photos
             | themselves simply cropped? In that case there doesn't have
             | to be that many photos.
        
             | mypastself wrote:
             | It's almost clear to me, but I can't quite put my finger on
             | it...
        
               | pointlessthrwy wrote:
        
               | nedpat wrote:
               | This thread seems to be pointing towards reddit
        
               | zw123456 wrote:
               | You guys are so sharp...
        
               | rlt wrote:
               | Back to Reddit, all of you.
        
       | john-doe wrote:
       | Made by Studio Puckey: https://puckey.studio/projects/pointer-
       | pointer
        
       | nsxwolf wrote:
       | This is the greatest use of machine learning I've ever seen.
        
         | woudsma wrote:
         | No ML, just JS and voronoi!
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ZXW2HBLPM
        
           | apetresc wrote:
           | How do Voronoi diagrams help you figure out the trajectory of
           | a finger in a photo?
        
             | mynegation wrote:
             | They do not, at least in this implementation they do not.
             | If you watch the video, pointing finger position is
             | actually preset in the data (by human analysis most
             | likely). Voronoi (it is pronounced with "oy" not "ay" btw)
             | is only used for proximity matching.
        
           | ta988 wrote:
           | The voronoi is just used to map the x,y coordinates to tiles
           | that then map to images. Doesn't say how the images were
           | selected and the finger coordinates mapped in the first place
           | to generate that map.
        
             | silentsea90 wrote:
             | I assume it is done manually?
        
               | naillo wrote:
               | It's funny how many cool things could be created with
               | just a few hours of manual labelling labor.
        
               | PebblesRox wrote:
               | Reminds me of a recent HN comment about the difference
               | between mechanical and mathematical magic tricks.
               | 
               | "A magician I know talks about the three kinds of magic:
               | sleight of hand, mechanical, and mathematical. The first
               | requires a lot of skill and practice (e.g., palming
               | coins, manipulating cards). The second requires a lot of
               | preparation and engineering (e.g., sawing a person in
               | half, floating person illusions). The third relies on the
               | nature of reality (e.g., dividing sets of cards in a
               | known pattern that forces a result, or manipulating
               | numbers that force an unexpected result)."
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31924453
        
             | olalonde wrote:
             | I could be wrong but when this was created, pre-2012, it
             | would have been quite hard to get a computer to annotate
             | those pictures accurately. 2012 was the year that kick-
             | started the deep learning revolution[0], which greatly
             | simplified the realization of such tasks.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_learning#Deep_learni
             | ng_re...
        
       | onionisafruit wrote:
       | This is where the magic happens: https://pointerpointer.com/new-
       | positions.json
        
         | melony wrote:
         | Train neural net and generate it dynamically!
        
       | jonnypotty wrote:
       | Why do I find this so funny? Good work. Thanks.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I noticed they are all white people. Does the algorithm have
       | trouble with other skin tones?
       | 
       | That is actually a serious question, and it has nothing to do
       | with the personal bias or motivations of the author.
       | 
       | I was once shown an algorithm for removing red-eye from photos,
       | and noticed that every example they showed, was of drunk white
       | Irish people (usually with light eyes). Turned, out, the library
       | didn't do so well, for other skin tones.
       | 
       |  _[EDITED TO ADD] I actually enjoyed the heck out of it. Many of
       | the comments, below, explain why it seems that way. Also, it may
       | just be "the luck of the draw." I suspect that most images are
       | from a common demographic, because that was who the photographers
       | that supplied the images, came from. The tech, itself, seems to
       | be quite basic, and is a fun idea._
        
         | onionisafruit wrote:
         | You're observation is generally correct. Here's an exception
         | that proves the rule: https://pointerpointer.com/images/678.jpg
        
         | yakubin wrote:
         | FWIW I got 30%+ Asians. The rest was White.
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | Shrug, the first image that came up for me was people with dark
         | skin.
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | I got asian and black people too. Not all of them white.
        
         | ravedave5 wrote:
         | I had several people with darker skin tones.
        
           | zweifuss wrote:
           | Me too.
        
             | mellosouls wrote:
             | Snap!
        
           | mellosouls wrote:
           | Me too.
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Strange, I did get photos with black people in the first tries.
        
         | jer0me wrote:
         | My guess is that the location of fingers were manually
         | identified so it's more an issue of where the photos are
         | sourced from.
        
         | Klathmon wrote:
         | IIRC this wasn't made by an algorithm, the pointing locations
         | were mapped by hand and the list of images is fixed.
         | 
         | So I think in this case it _is_ because of personal bias of the
         | author (regardless of how unintended it might be)
        
           | fullmoon wrote:
           | Since "Implicit bias" could not have been proven to actually
           | exist your charge is a direct personal one based on nothing
           | concrete at all.
        
         | pkdpic wrote:
         | I really love this project but that is a super on point
         | observation. I should have noticed that. And I think the answer
         | to your question is probably obviously yes. Like I know what
         | I'm talking about...
         | 
         | Also very curious on the source for these images. They seem
         | like scraped Facebook photos from a very specific time range.
         | Maybe early 2000s?
         | 
         | Anyway whatever this is its art and I love it and it should be
         | at the MoMA.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | I agree. It is super fun. Kudos!
        
         | mynegation wrote:
         | I watched the video mentioned in another comment just to figure
         | out exactly that question. From my understanding Voronoi
         | diagrams are not used to find finger position, it is most
         | likely preset, probably by human.
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | There are other skin tones but you're right it's mostly white
         | people. However it's worth baring in mind that this is an old
         | site. Wayback machine has it at 2012. I'm sure I've read an
         | explanation that said each image was manually curated and then
         | the angle of the pointing manually plotted. So I wouldn't say
         | there's any algorithm bias beyond whatever images the author
         | had access to at that point (no pun intended) in time.
        
       | archibaldJ wrote:
       | oh wow this cracks me up in ways unbeknownst to me, almost in the
       | same fashion as the first time I experienced the surreality of VR
       | ping pong. There is something strange about human reactivity (and
       | interactive humourous side-effects) that we need to research more
       | on.
        
       | Akronymus wrote:
       | That was fun.
       | 
       | Until there randomly was a finger seemingly with a crush injury
       | along with a large pin shoved into it lengthwise.
       | 
       | WHY wasn't that vetted out?
       | 
       | This one, specifically https://i.imgur.com/JimNuUL.png (Showing
       | the injury/pin, so dont click if you dont wanna see it)
        
       | positus wrote:
       | Delightful!
        
       | andrew_ wrote:
       | These are all photos that look like they were taken with
       | disposable cameras in the early 2000s. First thought was "why do
       | all of these look like they were taken at my college parties?"
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Half of the people look drunk. Which makes sense. Being this is
         | selected for photos of people pointing at random places!
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | Yeah someone got their hands on a Myspace image crawl..
        
         | pchristensen wrote:
         | Apparently this site goes back to at least 2012, so the pics
         | would have to be older than that:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4095237
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Probably fishing from the golden age of Facebook sharing.
        
         | AustinDev wrote:
         | Seriously I think I saw someone I hung out with in RVA in the
         | late 2000's
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > These are all photos that look like they were taken with
         | disposable cameras in the early 2000s. First thought was "why
         | do all of these look like they were taken at my college
         | parties?"
         | 
         | You're probably not too far off.
         | 
         | This is apparently all the photos it uses: https://gist.github.
         | com/Q726kbXuN/6937cf84ac6debcb2027cdba13.... I eyeballed it for
         | a bit and all those that had timestamps were from 2004-2006. I
         | also saw a Bush-Cheney 2004 campaign sign in the background of
         | one.
        
       | vladf wrote:
       | Didn't work for me: https://ibb.co/56rr18X
        
       | banana_giraffe wrote:
       | If you're like me and just want to see all of the images:
       | 
       | https://gist.github.com/Q726kbXuN/6937cf84ac6debcb2027cdba13...
        
         | deepspace wrote:
         | The guy in the 13th photo just looks _wrong_ somehow, like a
         | CGI person down in the uncanny valley.
        
           | shrimpx wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure that's a wax figure or a painted wood
           | sculpture.
        
             | deepspace wrote:
             | Yes, on closer inspection, you are right. The camera threw
             | me off.
        
       | kebman wrote:
       | Ok I get the point!1
        
       | felipelalli wrote:
       | What is the point?
        
       | dannyphantom wrote:
       | I remember this from StumbleUpon :)
       | 
       | Something that I did as a teenager and just tried again is take a
       | sticky note, cut a small square in it and place it on your
       | screen, you can "refind" pictures so it's not all random.
       | Probably obvious to those more knowledgeable than I but
       | nonetheless amusing.
        
       | speps wrote:
       | HN thread from 2012 (67 comments):
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4095237
       | 
       | HN thread from 2020 (68 comments):
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25372356
        
         | jwilk wrote:
         | 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8583179 (31
         | comments)
        
       | adamredwoods wrote:
       | Why Voronoi? Why not circle-line collision, the line being from
       | the start of the finger to approximate end space. The lines can
       | be done manually, maybe drawn in with an app.
        
       | shreyshnaccount wrote:
       | I saw this site YEARSSS ago, brings back memories of bunking
       | class to play games xD
       | 
       | really cool!
        
       | egorfine wrote:
       | I'd like to point out
        
         | zanethomas wrote:
         | what's the point?
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | At some point I might get the point up to a point at least,
           | IDK what point I'm trying to make but I'd like to point out
           | the point.
        
       | flerchin wrote:
       | Wonderful! Good work.
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | Meta: title lacks "at", right?
        
         | egorfine wrote:
         | Good point!
        
         | Gedxx wrote:
         | Solved! Thank you.
        
         | dev_amiga wrote:
         | Disappointing.
        
       | dzonga wrote:
       | wow!!
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-12 23:02 UTC)