[HN Gopher] Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]
___________________________________________________________________
Pepsi: Breathtaking Design Strategy (2008) [pdf]
Author : Jimmc414
Score : 368 points
Date : 2022-07-12 01:08 UTC (21 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jimedwardsnrx.files.wordpress.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (jimedwardsnrx.files.wordpress.com)
| s1k3s wrote:
| This looks very similar to the deliverables I get from my UX
| designers. And then I get a $400 bill with "Research on choosing
| the fonts", the fonts being Roboto.
| pelario wrote:
| Based on a sibling comment[1], it seems that this document is
| authentic.
|
| I had seen it before (maybe here in HN), but I was convinced that
| it was a prank.
|
| Can anyone confirm the authenticity of this ?
|
| 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32064781
| mushufasa wrote:
| despite how silly this may seem to many in the HN audience, I
| will contend that:
|
| if you were running a multi-billion dollar sugar water company
| whose main moat is the brand, and spent hundreds of millions on
| ads each year as one of the key line items in the budget, you too
| would want this level of sophistication and thought put into a
| brand refresh. Probably even more.
|
| And you can imagine that this document was debated for weeks or
| months by the highest level executives as well as whole
| departments of marketers. They probably had multiple documents
| like this from multiple agencies. With that level of internal
| debate, all the granular side-by-side process diagrams are a
| necessary part of the UX here, to guide along the audience that
| only sees the pdf and can't talk to the agency designers.
| jorgesborges wrote:
| I agree that brand and marketing is of paramount importance
| here. But to say this is sophisticated and well-thought is a
| stretch. It's funny precisely for its lack of sophistication,
| for how many millions of dollars and countless hours were spent
| creating something that lacks real value, that's crafted
| together with the well-meaning exuberance of a teenager trying
| to look "deep" or earn brownie points.
| eternalban wrote:
| I think the sophistication is lacking in the criticisms
| voiced in the comments.
|
| Regardless of the excessive & laughable b.s. factor of this
| high level design concept document, the proposal meets its
| brief: design a rebranding strategy that can be used in 2d,
| 3d, kiosks, blah, etc. as required, without each needing
| their own design proposal.
|
| So this designer latched onto geometric features of original
| pepsi logos, extracted some pattern, adjusted the sizing
| using golden ratio (thus the art history tour), and then went
| on to apply it to various use cases.
|
| So maybe the design sucks, or possibly you can think of a
| more sophisticated approach to providing what is effectively
| a meta-design for a product suite, but this fairly simple
| approach that is proposed can in fact satisfy the design
| brief, in a fairly simple manner. Simple is good, right?
| asxd wrote:
| > fairly simple approach
|
| I think we can all agree this PDF goes out of its way to
| convince the reader that it's anything but simple.
|
| - Pepsi DNA
|
| - Pepsi Energy Fields
|
| - The Pepsi Universe
|
| It's all gold, to be honest. I love this document.
| moralestapia wrote:
| LOL, this is not "sophistication", this is bullshit.
|
| A million(s?) dollar study for a global brand is justified by
| things like: * Research to see if the brand
| logos/names are misunderstood or offensive for a particular
| market/culture. * Research regarding brand
| recognition before/after the proposed changes. * A
| lot of design/thought behind how the brand will look in the
| many communication channels/products that it owns.
|
| There's nothing even close to that in this document. Actually,
| the first time I saw it posted I thought it was a joke from
| some internet troll, but no, it turned out to be the real
| thing.
| dhsysusbsjsi wrote:
| > Research to see if the brand logos/names are misunderstood
| or offensive for a particular market/culture.
|
| Can verify this is highly important. E.g. using the letters
| 'Af' as a prefix for a product marketed in Africa. Turns out
| that is a very offensive word.
|
| https://dsae.co.za/entry/af/e00076
| flycaliguy wrote:
| It's a now legendary document designed to promote Pepsi's
| brand. They nailed it. That other stuff was covered in
| another document.
| Teever wrote:
| So, first of all, was this document actually meant for
| public consumption like you suggest?
|
| Second of all, do you actually think anyone who reads this
| document will associate positive feelings with Pepsi?
|
| All it's making me think is "Man, those Coke ads with the
| polar bears were pretty cool."
| omnimus wrote:
| It doesnt matter. It's all freestyling. All the wild
| bullshit in the document is there because some pepsi
| execs reacted to it positively so they went all in on
| that. Then the document becomes infamous so they will say
| it was purposely nuts and use it for their own marketing.
|
| These things are done for the execs not consumers. Same
| goes for Tropicana.
| dereg wrote:
| I don't think so. My visceral reaction was: _SMH, this is
| why I stick with Coke_.
| awestroke wrote:
| Why are you promoting the Coca Cola Company? I assume
| you're not paid to do so
| just-tom wrote:
| Yes, they paid him to promote Coke on HN comment section.
| [deleted]
| spoonjim wrote:
| It's not the level of effort that's weird, it's the terrible
| output despite the level of effort.
| civilized wrote:
| And the unsettling question: is this terrible output actually
| good? Do I just not have what it takes to recognize great
| sugar water salesmanship?
| twobitshifter wrote:
| My question is, bullshit aside, can we measure how effective
| this new logo was for Pepsi? Did it have any effect at all?
| awad wrote:
| The stock has been on a tear since then, so there's that.
| Hard to say what all the inputs were, but it didn't hurt,
| at least, observationally.
| rvba wrote:
| They were supposed to make on field consumer tests - by showing
| them the new logotype.
|
| Consumer research existed long before IT started A/B testing
| everything.
| deltaonenine wrote:
| Metrics to drive up numbers are the way forward. You need to
| test theories and prove them with data and experiments. THIS is
| what is expected in a report; and I see nothing I expect in
| this report.
|
| Everything you see here is NOT sophistication. It has no
| science it's just an illusion.
|
| The use of geometry and technical jargon gives the illusion of
| legitimacy however this stuff is no more legit then the word
| 'science' in 'scientology'. Which means that exactly like
| scientology, the content is illegitimate but borrows vocabulary
| from legitimate fields like "science" to make it seem real.
|
| The use of analogies like DNA help people form connections with
| irrelevant things and these analogies don't actually
| communicate any new information. They serve to create a feeling
| of catharsis when you realize that there is a connection, but
| the connection is actually worthless. You learn nothing new.
|
| Take the analogy: "Life is like a box of chocolates. You never
| know what you're gonna get." The quote is worthless. You
| already know life is random. You already know chocolate boxes
| are random. A comparison is made and a new connection is formed
| in your brain. But is there actually any new information here?
| No. It's a trick to make you think the quote is profound when
| it is really a bunch of mundane stuff you already know.
|
| You've been bamboozled, along with every exec that fell for
| this report. Possibly the person who wrote this report tricked
| himself as well.
| simondotau wrote:
| Maybe this is a generational thing, but the idea of not
| knowing what you'll get in a box of chocolate is an entirely
| foreign notion to me.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Never had favourites, quality street or roses? Maybe these
| are only in the UK? You know what you could get, but not
| how many of each type.
| deltaonenine wrote:
| It's from the US. Sees candy boxes are loaded with random
| chocolates and you won't know what the chocolates contain
| until you put one in your mouth.
|
| The quote was made famous by an old US movie starring Tom
| Hanks. The movie is called Forrest Gump. Fittingly, the
| character who said that quote is mentally challenged.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJh59vZ8ccc
| rawoke083600 wrote:
| >you too would want this level of sophistication and thought
| put into a brand refresh. Probably even more
|
| Yes "sophistication, data-science, a/b testing, consumer
| science(the real type)". None of that is in the pdf.
| awad wrote:
| I always fall back to the Dropbox show and tell post on HN and
| the iPod is lame slashdot meme as a point to everyone on my
| team because it reinforces that the building part is just one
| aspect of a business.
|
| I can laugh at this as agency nonsense with the rest of the
| crowd, and I think some of it may be warranted. But, it is
| still ultimately how business works insofar as brand matters,
| small tweaks to brand can have huge ripple effects; mightily so
| when the product is the brand, and disregarding anything brand
| or marketing related is foolhardy.
| bigDinosaur wrote:
| You could say that about _anything_ that looks silly. At some
| point you gotta actually just say outright and unequivocally
| that something _is_ silly. If this logo redesign wasn 't
| absurd, nothing is.
| hyperhopper wrote:
| Exactly. The above commenter is saying a lot of effort went
| into this. I don't think anybody would disagree.
|
| It's just that the effort is making something completely
| ridiculous
| dymk wrote:
| Pepsi. Universe.
| pwillia7 wrote:
| they lost me at pepsi universe
| jachee wrote:
| So they had you right up to the end!
|
| It's interesting to contrast this with the same company that
| had the awareness to recognize that basically no one ever
| types out "Mountain Dew" in its entirety and adopted the _de
| facto_ name it had acquired in the new millennium: mtn dew.
| gonzo41 wrote:
| No Pepsi Boson. I left disappointed.
| [deleted]
| russelldjimmy wrote:
| Here's how I believe it works:
|
| 1. A link is posted to HN whose content can easily be made fun
| of, because it appears bizarre without context.
|
| 2. People on HN jump at the opportunity to make fun of said
| link so they have something to take a dump on. It's a wonderful
| ego-trip. They cannot get enough of it. Most of those who do
| not need the ego-trip to feel better about themselves usually
| move along without comment.
|
| 3. Comments like yours which are trying to be curious instead
| of mocking are "raining on their party", i.e., ruining their
| ego-trip.
|
| 4. Instead of engaging with you on a level of thoughtful
| discussion, i.e., "let's explore why such a bizarre document
| exists instead of just mocking it because there is nothing to
| be gained by doing that", such commenters are more than happy
| to take a dump on your comment too.
|
| Instead of engaging with your comment in its entirety, they
| will nit pick on the fact that your comment features the word
| "sophisticated" and base their entire response on that.
| Anything to keep the ego-trip and judgement going.
| isametry wrote:
| In general you might be right. But let's be honest - in this
| case, despite _any_ amount of context, respect, critical
| thinking or benefit of the doubt, the content of the link is
| still just stupid. No way around it.
|
| Now granted, there's a lot of ignorance, also in this thread,
| as to why companies develop elaborate philosophies behind
| their brands to an extent which seems far-fetched for the
| average person. But it's also true that in the marketing
| field, especially on the higher levels, it's _really_ easy to
| start bullshitting. And this document is not only a great
| example of this, it's an example dialed up to 11.
|
| I agree with you that content which is presented "to be
| laughed at" inherently spawns some degree of non-productive,
| toxic discussion. But I also believe that we should never
| _not_ call out bullshit when we see it.
| russelldjimmy wrote:
| Yes, we are in agreement.
| chris_wot wrote:
| But are you? He contradicted you on a number of points.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| And if this wasn't spot on already: those taking a dump do so
| with the most recent design critique that most resonated on
| HN, hence the dozen or so comments I found on my way to this
| one bemoaning "sans serif" as if it's some newfangled design
| trend and not the font style they've most commonly
| encountered on screen for 30 years.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| If I dump ten pounds of Lego on your desk, that's not
| sophistication.
| seba_dos1 wrote:
| In a right context, it very well could be.
| paulcole wrote:
| Depends on how much you charge.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Nearly agree -- you would want the level of sophistication that
| this pretends to have. That it tricked management into thinking
| it has? (pretty damning if so)
| SicSemperUranus wrote:
| Any rational individual can see this is chicanery of the
| highest level. It takes an entire committee to be able to
| rationalize away the absurdity.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| I agree that design is far more complicated than most
| developers realize, but I'd be careful to avoid mistaking
| detailed explanations for accurate explanations, and heavily
| discussed topics for usefully discussed topics.
|
| Most of my BFA is in graphic design and it's not my only art
| and design education, so I'm pretty well-versed in artsy fartsy
| Bauhausian high-concept visual communication. From the very
| first days as a Freshmen you start with exercises like finding
| as many ways as you can to create a palpable sense of tension
| with only two black squares on a white background by changing
| the scale and placement, or making two identically colored
| swatches look like two different colors by placing them on a
| field of a different color. Professors deliberately don't give
| you a set guidelines in these exercises because the artistic
| roots of design don't work that way-- you have to understand
| the way visual components work together on a visceral level
| before you can effectively reason about them... even pretty
| straightforward things like effectively setting paragraphs of
| text or kerning letters can be pretty nebulous, and that's much
| more straightforward than at abstract logo design.
|
| Could you imagine the pressure of being the art director
| wielding those nebulous and subjective processes revamp a
| worldwide household name in one of the most image-focused
| markets to ever exist? Or being the executive with zero domain
| knowledge tasked with evaluating the work of this firm? And
| while the early parts of the process can be subjective, there
| are vastly more wrong answers than right ones when it comes
| time to reveal your final product.
|
| This tension means selling your vision is just as much a part
| of the design process as creating it, and that's a tough job.
| Check out this 27 minute long pitch film legendary designer
| Saul Bass made to sell his rebranding of Ma Bell:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKu2de0yCJI
|
| That was a huge initiative and it required a lot of
| explanation-- not just explanation of individual decisions and
| the reasoning behind them, but explaining how he saw the
| context of the company, all its individual parts, and how
| people perceived them before deciding how he was going to
| affect the changes he was hired to affect. But it's all very,
| very digestible because he's a designer and that's what
| designers do. They figure out how to take complex or nebulous
| ideas and concepts and efficiently and effectively communicate
| them (usually) visually.
|
| And while some of this breathless report makes good sense, much
| is far from digestible. Parts of it brought to mind this famous
| Francis Ford Coppola quote:
|
| "We were in the jungle, there were too many of us, we had
| access to too much money, too much equipment, and little by
| little we went insane."
|
| It dabbles in bits of knowledge most folks would consider
| obscure, presents not-obviously-useful conclusions based on
| them and then wraps the whole burrito up in a cloak of
| grandiosity. I mean, when someone places the theoretical
| framework of a corporate identity revamp on a timeline with
| some of humanity's most significant achievements, you better
| strap on your bullshit-proof vest. It seems more designed to
| make readers feel insecure about not connecting the dots (or
| maybe zillions of circles) and therefore less likely to
| confidently push back. I'm really not sure how else the
| assertion that a circle trisected by two very deliberately
| placed, but relatively straightforward lines could even
| subconsciously conceptually intersect with the earth's magnetic
| field. 90% of that study of perimeter oscillations was psuedo-
| analytical pointless bullshit.
|
| This sort of thing annoys the hell out of me because it
| reinforces the view of design as entirely subjective fluff
| propped up with bullshit when most professional design is
| actually pretty well reasoned.
| vlark wrote:
| Gravitational. Pull. Of. Pepsi.
| ErikVandeWater wrote:
| Something tells me the HN crowd wouldn't be looking to invest
| in whether the "Pepsi Energy Fields" are "symmetrical" and "in
| balance."
|
| I agree though that the HN crowd as a CEO would want lots of
| effort to study how to make the most recognizable and liked
| brand.
| ianseyer wrote:
| Worth mentioning that this is the same design company that blew
| $35MM on a terrible redesign of Tropicana Orange Juice, which
| they reverted back within a couple days (but kept the mock orange
| cap)
|
| https://www.thebrandingjournal.com/2015/05/what-to-learn-fro...
| mc32 wrote:
| I don't know how management allowed them to kill the metaphor
| of the straw tapping an orange. It's a good metaphor for the
| product's "fresh" marketing message (putting aside the "flavor
| packets" thing.
|
| The one thing I think the new design had right was the lighter
| green for the type. That's about it.
| exodust wrote:
| The straw in orange is also a fun and friendly image, without
| going overboard. It invites people to "solve" the visual
| equation. Straw + orange = fresh juice. A clever design for
| young and old. Amazing they replaced it with a boring glass
| of OJ.
|
| Replacing the horizontal convex "Tropicana" with the straight
| vertical and using a more serious font, was another blunder.
| thisOtterBeGood wrote:
| They probably just got lost in many design reviews. At the
| end they couln't "see" the designs anymore. Also their test
| group was probably biased: They probably used the same guys
| to review all design iterations, so their opinion developed
| along with each iteration.
| guerrilla wrote:
| $35 million dollars for a package redesign... and they say
| governments are inefficient...
| bitexploder wrote:
| I see high level design docs like this on occasion. I decided I
| am not qualified to comment, but my opinion is very polar.
| Either it is all a very expensive pile of poop or brilliance
| and design beyond my understanding. When looked upon at a
| distance I cannot discern which opinion is correct.
| hammerbrostime wrote:
| This Pepsi redesign is just particularly (spectacularly) bad.
| There are plenty of brand briefs which are intelligent,
| strategic and grounded in reality.
| rvba wrote:
| English Premier League had a fantastic rebrand: where they
| selected a nice color set that stood out (it was "their"
| color set), new font, new visual style guide including new
| animations, new logo (that causes some controversy but it
| prints well). They also made a piece of music that makes
| you feel that you just watched something
| great/fantastic/historic - even if the match itself wasnt
| good.
|
| Most of the time modernizing the logotypes and fonts to
| make them simpler does not work, but here someone came with
| a coherent strategy that simply looks good and is distinct
| enough.
|
| https://medium.com/look-and-logo/a-closer-look-at-the-
| premie...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px3NqI7-v50
| duskwuff wrote:
| It's the first one.
|
| The vast majority of this strategy document is ridiculous
| drivel, written to sound profound but conveying no meaning.
| One early tipoff is the nonsensical timeline on page 6 --
| it's basically just rattling off random bits of art history
| with no relation to the brand or the proposed strategy.
| autoexec wrote:
| I'm guessing the guy who made this spent years working for
| an art degree, getting shackled with decades of debt in the
| process, only to find that it's nearly impossible to get
| work as an artist doing anything meaningful so he had to
| get a shitty 9-5 at a marketing firm and while his dreams
| of being a true artist have been crushed years ago he just
| wanted to do _something_ with even just a little of what he
| learned while studying what he loved.
| barbecue_sauce wrote:
| I would say it looks more like it was produced by someone
| who studied architecture/design, and had fun exploring
| the aesthetics of Pepsi as a brand.
| autoexec wrote:
| As far as I can tell marketing is a very expensive pile of
| poop used to dress up some uncomfortable underlying truths
| about very real and unfortunate vulnerabilities we have as
| humans. It's also one of the few places where artists can
| reliably make money.
|
| The result is that a lot of creative and talented people are
| putting out some beautiful, powerful, and entertaining works
| which are ultimately used to lie and to psychologically
| manipulate the masses in order to shape their views and
| extract money from them.
| guiriduro wrote:
| I'm wholly in favour of artists getting paid work, but
| isn't there a vastly inefficient layer of design
| 'consultancy' that sits in between them, effectively
| wasting money to turn out bullshit for corporate bullshit
| (mostly marketing) departments?
|
| How many more artists could be paid and paid more by
| cutting out the bullshit merchants both inside and outside
| companies?
| barbecue_sauce wrote:
| But what would you pay them to do?
| bqmjjx0kac wrote:
| I always heard that advertising is the dark side of
| psychology, but you've convinced me that it's also the dark
| side of art!
| lxe wrote:
| Wait so this was real?
| dmix wrote:
| The lid really is great. But yeah that's a drastic change (new
| logo, new typography, new slogan, new image, new lid). They
| always have to throw the baby with the bath water and be
| radically modern with every detail.
|
| Reddit's new design went heavy on modern/JS styling and not the
| raw simple HN-style text-heavy interface. They should have
| focused on loading the links->comments, pictures, video as
| quick as possible. They got the comments page to load async but
| video is broken and RES plugin does inline image/video loading
| way better. Everything else is a step back or sideways.
| masswerk wrote:
| Not so sure about the lid: if this is indeed a true quality
| product leading the market, why does it need this gimmick?
| You'd rather expect a basic, functional statement. Together
| with the nondescript sans-serif type, this gives the appeal
| of a me-too product that would want such a gimmick in order
| to raise awareness.
| chris_wot wrote:
| The mobile app notifies me of a new comment, and I have to
| exit the app and reopen it to see the comment.
| pjbeam wrote:
| Tangentially Reddit seems determined to make me stop visiting
| it. When they finally kill old. I won't anymore. The new
| reddit mobile web experience is incoherent, I get that
| they're pushing the app but no thanks.
| spython wrote:
| I see it is a feature - the mobile web experience is just
| bad enough to not get sucked in too much.
| webmobdev wrote:
| Came across a thread yesterday on Reddit on how ads on
| Reddit can now be no longer downvoted. That's an indication
| of where they are headed and who they prioritise ...
| nalinidash wrote:
| Try third party clients like infinity.They are better in
| these things.
| pcurve wrote:
| And guess who did the new Tropicana design?
|
| You guessed it. Arnell Group that did the new Pepsi logo.
|
| "The campaign, which carries the theme "Squeeze it's a
| natural," was created by Arnell in New York, part of the
| Omnicom Group. Arnell also created the new version of the
| Tropicana packaging.
|
| "Tropicana is doing exactly what they should be doing," Peter
| Arnell, chairman and chief creative officer at Arnell, said in
| a separate telephone interview on Friday.
|
| "I'm incredibly surprised by the reaction," he added, referring
| to the complaints about his agency's design work, but "I'm glad
| Tropicana is getting this kind of attention."
|
| Full article about the botched campaign:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/23/business/media/23adcol.ht...
| barbecue_sauce wrote:
| Tropicana was also owned by Pepsi at the time.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Their new design was just yet another example of how the
| currently in vogue "minimalism everywhere" design aesthetic
| sucks. The Tropicana case study is such a great example because
| the effects were so drastic, but only really because there were
| easily substituted goods - consumers basically thought the
| carton was just "generic store brand OJ".
|
| My guess is that other recent brand redesigns to this boring,
| same, sans-serif minimalist aesthetic (recent HN article,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32040506) are just as bad,
| but with "stickier" products (people aren't likely to leave
| Google or Facebook just because the typography is shittier) the
| downside is less noticeable.
| noir_lord wrote:
| Years and years ago we used to have a supermarket here called
| Kwik-Save (here been the UK) and they had a range called No-
| Frills.
|
| Their packaging was absolutely genius because it instantly
| stood out on every shelf.
|
| https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Da0flNiWkAAUda7.jpg
|
| Other than the font it seems like everyone wants to got that
| way, of course if you move with the crowd you can't stand out
| from it.
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| On that subject, https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/
| tracks the desecration of all these once colorful, beautiful,
| expressive logos into this new bland style that's in vogue.
| mrcartmeneses wrote:
| Saying that this guy's designs were terrible therefore all
| modern design is terrible is like saying all children's TV
| presenters are pedophiles (apologies I know that's an extreme
| analogy).
|
| The truth is that the guy behind this design agency is not a
| good designer at all and his career seems to have been driven
| by confidence, greed and the incompetence of his clients.
| It's a sample of one. He's the Jimmy Saville of bad design
| thisOtterBeGood wrote:
| Thinking the same. They've made some fatal mistakes there.
| Heck of a lesson for the agency there :D
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Which is why I linked the related recent HN post about tons
| of different brands, across tech and fashion, that wiped
| out any trace of their individuality for bold, sans-serif
| logos.
|
| I agree, I think this designer is just a particularly
| shitty designer, but he's a shitty designer that's just
| copying the broader trend of minimalist design laziness. I
| think the last section in that linked HN article
| (https://velvetshark.com/articles/why-do-brands-change-
| their-...) _perfectly_ points out what went wrong in the
| Tropicana redesign as well:
|
| > There's nothing bad in wanting your logo to look simpler,
| better, mobile-ready, or universal enough to appeal to the
| broadest possible audience.
|
| > But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
|
| > Shoot for simplicity and legibility, but keep your
| distinguishing features. Don't throw away what the brand
| has been working on for decades.
|
| > Otherwise, you may end up in a situation where you could
| slap any logo on any product and hardly anyone would notice
| a difference:
| ncmncm wrote:
| Pepsi, Tropicana and the like, and their parent companies, are a
| direct cause of the Metabolic Syndrome epidemic in (particularly)
| the US, other former UK colonies, and UK, causing many times the
| preventable deaths from COVID, year in and year out.
|
| The "cause of death" noted for these cases never mentions
| metabolic syndrome (variously, fatty liver disease, cirrhosis,
| processed-food disease), but rather secondary illnesses it
| drives, most notably high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes,
| obesity, and circulatory illness. Most of these are products of
| high uric acid level, itself a byproduct of fructose processing
| in the liver. Fructose is processed only in the liver, like other
| toxins, and most similarly to alcohol.
|
| The standard to diagnose high uric acid has risen sharply in
| recent decades as levels themselves have risen with sugar intake,
| so people with a deadly uric acid level do not learn of the core
| problem. They instead are told of the high blood pressure and
| diabetes, and get medication for that, masking it but not its
| harms.
|
| We should not be allowing sale of these products; or _at least_ ,
| labels should warn of their fructose content. We could start
| seeing "contains no fructose!" on packaging, instead of "non-
| fat". (Because fat, even saturated fat, it now turns out, is
| harmless.)
|
| (Fructose in normal food, particularly fruit, comes with enough
| fiber to divert most of the fructose to your gut bacteria. Juice
| and soda strip away this protection.)
| dm319 wrote:
| Sure metabolic syndrome is a thing, but can you point to me
| evidence it is caused by these drinks? I agree re: the
| metabolic pathways, but yet to be convinced that most of these
| issues are not primarily caused by obesity.
|
| And sure, drinking enough sugar will result in obesity, but so
| will eating too much carbs or fat.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Obesity is a separate morbidity. 30% of obese Americans are
| not actually ill. But 40% of non-obese Americans are sick
| with metabolic syndrome. So, more than are obese and sick, by
| the raw numbers. Obesity is a big problem in the US, but
| metabolic syndrome is a bigger problem, and suffering both is
| worse than either alone.
|
| Pakistan has as much metabolic syndrome as other former UK
| colonies, but remarkably little obesity.
|
| Metabolic syndrome is a product of excess fructose in the
| bloodstream, itself a product of sugar consumed without
| enough accompanying fiber. Beverages are a particularly
| concentrated source, but other stuff packaged as food can be
| as bad.
| danachow wrote:
| > But 40% of non-obese Americans are sick with metabolic
| syndrome.
|
| 40% of the non obese adult population in the US? More BS
| dude.
|
| It should be easy to point to some relatively reputable
| public health agency or peer reviewed publication where
| this is substantiated.
|
| Among non overweight individuals I'm going to peg it more
| around 5%.
| rootsudo wrote:
| This is interesting, would you say the same for other cola and
| juice manufacturers? E.g. Coca Cola, Snapple, Bolthouse, etc?
| ncmncm wrote:
| Yes, all.
| adrian_b wrote:
| During many years, I have been very fat and all attempts of
| losing weight have failed.
|
| Eventually, I made great changes to what I was eating and I
| began to weigh everything that I ate, to ensure that I eat no
| more than planned, and in somewhat less than a year I have
| lost one third of my previous weight, reaching a normal
| value.
|
| Previously, I have not been drinking much Pepsi Cola or Coca
| Cola, but I have been drinking a lot of various fruit juices,
| all of which contain excessive amounts of sugar.
|
| By far the most effective change in my eating habits, leading
| to weight loss and better health, has been to stop drinking
| any other kind of beverage except water and herbal teas
| without sugar.
| [deleted]
| WheatM wrote:
| alexb_ wrote:
| Good point! We should also ban red meat, since it's shown to
| have strong links with cancer and is ultimately harmful. Plus
| we should ban all drugs, for obvious reasons. Anything with
| high sugar needs to be out of the country, and don't even get
| me started on these horrible "energy drinks" people nowadays
| have been drinking.
|
| This is for your own good guys, ban everything that might cause
| harm to someone because big daddy gov't knows best
| ncmncm wrote:
| I.e., dying from liver disease is your God-given Right as An
| American. Like drunk driving without a seatbelt.
|
| (But you could die in a gun accident first, so why worry?)
| eVeechu7 wrote:
| There is plenty of diabetes and obesity in Australia and we
| don't use fructose as a sweetener. I'm not sure fructose is
| necessary.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Table sugar is half fructose. Likewise honey. Agave syrup is
| much worse, 85%. Mango and pear juice, almost as much.
|
| Grapes, almost uniquely among fruits, have practically no
| fiber, so are as bad as juice.
|
| The glucose part of sugar is mostly harmless. So we focus on
| the fructose.
| danachow wrote:
| > Most of these are products of high uric acid level
|
| That's a very unsubstantiated claim. I'm not debating the
| association of hyperuricemia with metabolic syndrome or
| cardiovascular risk factors, but I don't think we have much
| evidence to establish a causal link between hyperuricemia and
| all the morbidities listed.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Robert Lustig:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDJsxw0uMLM
|
| Perlmutter:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6qZKH_xuYl4
| danachow wrote:
| This is not an RCT nor does it point to one supporting your
| uric acid claims.
|
| And Lustig is well known, he's on the border of being a
| crackpot, unfortunately. Mehmet Oz is a professor emeritus
| of Columbia, and contributed some amazing shit to the field
| of cardiology, but now he is undoubtedly a crackpot, so
| just having some credentials and even a good history is not
| an automatic pass to get out of presenting high-quality
| scientific methods.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4822166/
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4078442/
|
| And.. this is not the first time this has come up here
| even: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15760599
| ncmncm wrote:
| ncmncm wrote:
| You will have to take up your objections with the
| endocrinologists. Good luck, though, 'cause endocrinologists
| are the smartest of all medical doctors. Have to be, to do it
| at all.
| danachow wrote:
| This is a non-response - or do you have a specific cite
| linking uric acid as causative of diabetes or
| cardiovascular disease? It can be in a colorectal journal
| for all I care.
|
| > Have to be, to do it at all.
|
| Lol. Yeah bud, I have a ton of friends that are
| endocrinologists, all mostly great and intelligent folks,
| but I'm not letting them touch me with a colonoscope - or
| pretty much any implement. It's not exactly a field for the
| procedurally inclined.
| ncmncm wrote:
| So, ask _them_. It is their job to know. You have already
| said you don 't trust me.
|
| Be sure to report back what they tell you.
| willbw wrote:
| Ignoring who is wrong or right here - you made the claim,
| it's not very helpful if you refuse to substantiate it or
| suggest someone else needs to substantiate it for you.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Notably, this person has not reported any results.
|
| Most likely they don't actually know any
| endocrinologists, or were told that in fact uric acid is
| known to be the connection between fructose metabolism /
| fatty liver and metabolic syndrome illnesses.
|
| Some people just feel compelled to jump up and defend
| sugar anytime it is blamed for illness.
| danachow wrote:
| > this person has not reported any results.
|
| Ironic since you are the one making the claim and have
| not produced any references. I can't prove they don't
| exist but you could easily counter if one did.
|
| Furthermore I linked to one peer reviewed review article,
| again
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4078442/
|
| that is chock full of balanced references if anyone is so
| inclined to peruse them and takes a critical examination
| at the various publications and the arguments can be
| evaluated solely on merits alone. There is continued
| research in this area but so far no smoking gun as to
| causality.
|
| There are no meta-analyses I know of on your specific
| claim as there is a lack of primary research in human
| subjects to even substantiate it.
|
| > Most likely they don't actually know any
| endocrinologists
|
| I'm a practicing academic internist. I know
| endocrinologists both personally and professionally. This
| is absolutely irrelevant though as the literature is
| available for you.
|
| > Some people just feel compelled to jump up and defend
| sugar
|
| I did nothing of the sort. I treat diabetes and
| hyperlipidemia on the daily - that would be ridiculous.
|
| Edit: oh and I missed your edit - a reference to
| Perlmutter? A celebrity neurologist who has widely been
| debunked for making wildly unsubstantiated claims. You
| are not arguing in good faith. You have the entirety of
| PubMed and Google scholar on which to reference peer
| reviewed literature - some of it is also crap - but you
| aren't even doing that - you are sticking to the lowest
| quality unsubstantiated celebrity bilge.
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| The UK uses sucrose, not fructose though?
| danachow wrote:
| Sucrose is hydrolyzed in the gut by the enzyme a-glucosidase
| into glucose and fructose. Without any other absorptive
| buffer, it's basically the same.
| supermatt wrote:
| > it's basically the same
|
| Not really. Fructose is JUST fructose, sucrose is half
| fructose.
| wahern wrote:
| "high fructose" corn syrup--what's typically used to
| replace sucrose--is 55% fructose, not 100% fructose. IOW,
| only 5% more fructose. (It can even be less than sucrose,
| as low as 42%, but for sake of argument 55% seems fair.)
| awestroke wrote:
| ~55%, plus another 50% of the sucrose content once its
| broken down in the gut, which means it's effectively
| somewhere around 75% sucrose for the body to break down~
|
| EDIT: nevermind, assumed the rest was sucrose rather than
| glucose
| wahern wrote:
| I'm not following. HFCS is 55% fructose and 45% glucose,
| not 45% sucrose.
| supermatt wrote:
| Fair point. I incorrectly assumed the parent was
| comparing fructose to sucrose directly.
| ncmncm wrote:
| "Basically the same" _as fructose and glucose
| separately_.
|
| In soda, the ingredients say sugar, but it has already
| been dissociated to fructose and glucose in the bottle.
| [deleted]
| danachow wrote:
| If we're talking about sugar soft drinks in the US this
| is invariably HFCS.
| ncmncm wrote:
| There is no point in quibbling.
|
| "High fructose corn syrup" is the same as table sugar, to
| your body.
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| So why do people make a big deal out of it, does it just
| taste bad?
| ncmncm wrote:
| Hipsterism. You cannot trust the taste of anybody who
| touches either of them.
| dharmatech wrote:
| Video that covers fructose and uric acid:
|
| https://youtu.be/BzwH-94vMis
| [deleted]
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| What about diet sodas? Are they equally risky as well? Does the
| aspartme trigger similar reactions from the body as sugar?
| ncmncm wrote:
| No.
|
| Some people say artificial sweeteners have bad effects on
| your insulin metabolism because your body reacts to the taste
| as if a slug of sugar is on its way. But it must be
| complicated by conditioning; seems like after years of
| drinking it, the association would weaken.
|
| I don't know of any reliable results on that.
| rhabarba wrote:
| I much prefer the earlier logos with more text and less emojis.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| It's as funny today as when I first saw it.
| joshu wrote:
| "graphic design is my passion"
| chris_wot wrote:
| I'd seriously reconsider using Arnell after seeing this.
| kumarvvr wrote:
| What a load of crap. Is this what design boutiques do day in day
| out?
|
| Can anyone tell me if there is even an iota of meaning in the
| design process?
| randombits0 wrote:
| It's a somewhat clever shell script, I believe.
| deebosong wrote:
| I've worked in small and big design shops. When done right, the
| process should make sense to a layperson, like you're
| respecting their intelligence.
|
| This Pepsi rebrand farce feels more like The Emperor's New
| Clothes. My guess, and someone with more knowledge can
| absolutely correct me, is that whatever agency bid for the job,
| they knew they were basically milking Pepsi for every penny
| they could, and it was pure greed. And in order to justify the
| utterly exorbitant estimate, they pulled so much bullshit out
| of their asses hoping to completely overwhelm the clients and
| utterly baffle and confuse them and make them feel too stupid
| to even ask about anything.
|
| Basically, design process should make sense and be
| understandable to the average empathetic, intelligent business
| owners.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| When done right, the process should make sense to a layperson
|
| Yes, absolutely. A company I worked for paid big money for a
| design firm to do a brand makeover.
|
| The head of the design firm cautioned our CEO: "If we do this
| right, the result will not be mindblowing to you. In fact,
| your reaction might be 'duh - that's really obvious.' Because
| _you_ already know who you are. "
|
| (paraphrased)
|
| I really liked that sentiment. I thought that company did a
| great job, both on the brand identity itself and on the
| communication.
| Brendinooo wrote:
| Having done some identity work, some stuff is done on purpose
| and some stuff is justified post-hoc to make the pitch better.
|
| "It looks nice" doesn't play all that well, and doesn't give
| you much protection from a decision maker who (incorrectly)
| says "I think my idea looks nicer".
|
| This is not representative of all design experiences though,
| I'm sure.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| Breathtakingly classic every time one reads it
|
| "Emotive forces shape the gestalt of the brand identity." story
| of my life.
| yarg wrote:
| This reminded me of a presentation of progress meeting that I
| once attended.
|
| I left wondering if I was the only one that noticed they'd said
| and shown nothing at all.
| bilater wrote:
| What the hell is this lol
| dima123 wrote:
| My favorite Pepsi ad of all time: https://youtu.be/qTaOLr9TTkM
| shoo wrote:
| PepsiCo Inc (PEP, Nasdaq) isn't merely a beverage company - as
| explained in this strategy document - it is a space company. The
| Pepsi Universe, with respect to its 8 light year characteristic
| length, reflects the scale of the total addressable market (TAM)
| that PepsiCo can expand into.
|
| Noted short-seller and equity valuation skeptic Jim Chanos once
| described the TAM of space companies as infinite, because space
| itself is infinite. This pessimistic take anchors our low-end
| fair value estimate of PEP to $infinity / share. Since PEP
| currently trades at around $170 / share, we believe there is
| considerable upside to the long term buy and hold investor.
| swyx wrote:
| i'd like to have whatever the author of this document is having
| iancmceachern wrote:
| This is good stuff, you can't make it up.
|
| It looks like lots was going on at the Arnell group at this
| time. In this article it even quotes Arnell as saying this
| work for Pepsi in OP as "Bullshit"
|
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-the-firing-of-weird-
| design-...
|
| You can't make this stuff up
| rob74 wrote:
| Quote from the article about the "Breathtaking Design
| Strategy" document:
|
| > _February 2009: Arnell sold Pepsi a pretentious, mostly
| made-up brand ideology document linking Pepsi to the Mona
| Lisa, De[s]cartes and Hinduism, as part of a successful
| logo redesign. Price: $1 million, reportedly._
| _def wrote:
| Well if I pay someone 1 million $ to redesign a logo...
| It better comes with some life changing philosophy
| throwoutway wrote:
| Well the end of it mentions the "gravitational pull of
| Pepsi" .it has some life changing physics at least
| bobthechef wrote:
| onion2k wrote:
| The amount of media coverage they've had since (we're
| still posting about it 14 years later...) makes that $1m
| a bit of a bargain.
| dchest wrote:
| Oranges. Lots of oranges.
|
| https://www.fastcompany.com/1661802/the-secret-to-peter-
| arne...
| askafriend wrote:
| Looks like you'll be having a Pepsi.
| Anaminus wrote:
| I've been calling it Pepsi Logo Kool-Aid.
| IncRnd wrote:
| Quite possibly that is coke.
| aaronbrethorst wrote:
| They're required to call it "nose candy" when they work on
| the PepsiCo account. /s
| bambax wrote:
| The document broke my BS detector; the needled appears to be
| stuck in the red.
| [deleted]
| tonmoy wrote:
| It will also take infinite time unfortunately
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Imagine trying to conquer space when you can't even conquer
| Coca-Cola!
| retcon wrote:
| Remember that John Sculley has been the only one who could.
| Kinda. Sculley invented the Pepsi Challenge, (and infamously
| failed it on camera) signed Michael Jackson to promote and
| went off to Cupertino and did some interesting things there
| too. But Coca-Cola Company had Michael Bay and still does. If
| you're dealing in visual impact imagination Michael Bay's a
| trump card.
| mherdeg wrote:
| I imagine Pepsi's corporate culture LOVES this stuff. They must
| drink it up like, well....
|
| I'm inspired by Jello Biafra's H2K2 keynote where he brought
| along a vinyl record of corporate training songs:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foFCd5xOrh0
|
| Check it out @ 2:11:28 ; the crowd goes wild for Pepsi:
|
| "Out there It's a Pepsi universe Thriving since time began
|
| On a steady course At a steady pace Bringing pleasure
| everywhere All through time and space
|
| And up here In the Pepsi enterprise We have one perfect plan:
| To bring Pepsi refreshment to all constellations
|
| And if anyone can succeed We know we can It's all there on
| history's pages One refreshment through the ages
|
| [Spoken] Pepsi is the universal refreshment, but has it always
| been that way, Professor? [Spoken] As far as I can remember.
|
| We're proud that the Pepsi enterprise Never, ever stands still
| 'Cause the company's working Side by side with our bottlers And
| if anyone can succeed We know we WILL! "
| jahller wrote:
| you missed a chance here by using "pepsimistic"
| [deleted]
| muaytimbo wrote:
| I left PepsiCo in 2020, they are still eating shit like this for
| breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
| llip wrote:
| It's pronounced "Bepsi" on the rez.
| Dave3of5 wrote:
| I mean Pepsi sells sugary, carbonated drinks. Never thought they
| put this much thought into the brand. I thought it was just was
| looked cool.
| jaidhyani wrote:
| The song inspired by this document:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAG7pye0V1g&t=1s
| niscocity35 wrote:
| zebracanevra wrote:
| See also https://youtu.be/fu3ETgAvQrw which I believe is the
| official video to go with the song
| Semaphore1 wrote:
| ENERGETIC > CAFFEINE FREE PEPSI
|
| C'mon man!
| wlesieutre wrote:
| The "Creation of Identity: Gravitational Pull" page is always
| good for a laugh Typical Light Path > Typical
| Shopping Aisle Light Path with Gravitational Pull >
| Gravitational Pull of Pepsi Relativity of Space and
| Time > Pepsi Proposition / Pepsi Aisle
| peanut_worm wrote:
| When they started to talk about the gravitational pull of pepsi I
| knew they couldn't be serious
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| jbullock35 wrote:
| I am surprised at how most of the comments here are -- I am
| guessing -- deeply misunderstanding the document.
|
| The document is almost unbelievably over-the-top. I think that it
| must be an intentional parody of marketing-speak. If you think
| that it's not, can you offer any evidence in support of your
| view?
| devindotcom wrote:
| It's 100% real and 100% serious. That's why it is so well known
| in the design world.
|
| I wonder if your comment exemplifies some corollary to Poe's
| Law - that someone mistaking real for parody or vice versa will
| confidently assert their view as obviously correct and
| challenge others (even if they constitute a seemingly informed
| majority) to justify their own.
| jbullock35 wrote:
| Perhaps my comment does exemplify Poe's Law. But I can't see
| that it's more likely to exemplify Poe's Law than your own
| comment. You've offered as much evidence for your
| interpretation as I have for mine: none.
| newobj wrote:
| My god it's full of carbs
| theptip wrote:
| > BREATHTAKING is a strategy based on the evolution of 5000+
| years of shared ideas in design philosophy creating an authentic
| Constitution of Design. This chart documents the origin and
| evolution of intellectual property.
|
| Also known as "the circle".
|
| Credit where credit is due, it takes confidence to make this kind
| of pitch with a straight face.
| polio wrote:
| Somebody had a lot of fun making this.
| ydnaclementine wrote:
| Watching mad men for the first time right now, and I feel it.
| Pepsi universe is going to be the name of my next vaporwave album
| w-ll wrote:
| Saint Pepsi fan?
| wisemang wrote:
| A follow-up to the Negativland classic Dispepsi [0]
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispepsi
| Fargoan wrote:
| Woah. This is exactly the type of sampling I've been looking
| for. This is amazing. Thank you.
| philshem wrote:
| This scene lives rent-free in my brain (Kodak pitch, no
| spoilers): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suRDUFpsHus
| kache_ wrote:
| looks like a whole lot of bullshit
| stall84 wrote:
| People get paid a LOT of money to produce a document like what
| you (might have) had the great joy-in-humor to just read.
| kizer wrote:
| I was reading and laughing, wondering if HN was taking this
| seriously. It's a decent logo IMO (though I think it's unpopular)
| but obviously the paper is filled to the brim with complete
| bullshit, LOL. The Pepsi galaxy at the end is what really got me.
|
| Just use common sense and first principles and you can make a
| logo. Make sure it doesn't look like a you-know-what and you're
| golden.
| suction wrote:
| I can't help but feel amused and a bit annoyed when designers
| pretend their work is like a science. Yes color theory and light
| refraction are science-y topics, but let's face after all if the
| people who pay you say they want it in red and bolder fonts, you
| do it.
| rodarmor wrote:
| This is the canonical video on the subject:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmVMh-nT200
| krm01 wrote:
| Having been involved in product design at startups & (very) large
| companies, I can unfortunately say this is what happens at most
| of the big Co's. Which is why we try to avoid working with large
| companies and rather partner up with Startups instead.
|
| Story time...
|
| This one time, I was reviewing a design with a client. We were
| going through this new page design in Figma. In the Zoom meeting,
| there were people from Marketing (SEO, Social, etc.), Legal,
| Product managers, developers, and a bunch more of which I don't
| even know why they joined the meeting.
|
| What happens during those types of meetings is that someone,
| usually the person highest in rank, puts the following words on
| the table: "so what do you guys think, thoughts?".
|
| That's where things start to get messy...
|
| In a large corp, when the boss puts that question on the table,
| people start to feel itchy. They want to say something clever and
| impress the rest of the team. Automatically their starting point
| is: this design isn't good and needs my clever input, so I can
| impress the boss and put my stamp on the project.
|
| The design that was basically approved by the same stakeholders
| over email, suddenly was getting 'feedback' from left and right.
|
| 'Make the font bigger'
|
| 'Make the font smaller'
|
| 'I don't like the shadows here'
|
| 'I really like how Competitor X, does it, can we do something
| exactly like that'.
|
| I tried pushing back, but it was too late. I was getting swamped
| in seemingly clever input from people that were just trying to
| impress the next person.
|
| We went back and designed 2 pages, one we thought was right, and
| the other one based on all the feedback that people were sharing.
|
| Their CEO went with option 1 luckily, but it wasted a ton of time
| for no good reason.
|
| Just looking at the PDF, I can imagine the conversations that
| lead to that 'design strategy'. Large design agencies know how to
| play this game, don't really care about great design and usually
| employ great story tellers to sell the idea to clients for big
| bucks.
| quesera wrote:
| I've been in these meetings too, and they're exhausting. At
| this very moment, I'm trying hard _not_ to be a part of this
| meeting, even though I have strong opinions that I don 't think
| will be represented by the current lot of attendees.
|
| That said, there's often a component of competitive commentary,
| but also consider Parkinson's Law of Triviality, a/k/a
| Bikeshedding:
|
| https://thedecisionlab.com/biases/bikeshedding
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| Ah! We used to refer to this as "Pepsi's $1M Logo Redesign."
| JakeWesorick wrote:
| This is the most galaxy brain thing I have ever read.
| foxbee wrote:
| For me, 1971 Pepsi Geometries: Perimeter Oscillations was peak
| Pepsi brand.
| engineer_22 wrote:
| It's like Pepsi had a psychotic break. Don't worry, friend, it
| happens sometimes.
| askvictor wrote:
| Former Pepsi CEO Thomas Rattigan ran Commodore Computer for a
| bit; former Pepsi President John Sculley ran Apple Computer. So
| there's a certain link to computing, for some unknown reason
| Reason077 wrote:
| Thing is, the current (2009) Pepsi logo just isn't very good.
|
| To me, it looks like the fat belly you're going to end up with if
| you drink too much Pepsi.
| c7DJTLrn wrote:
| Obviously there's a lot of nonsense here but the logo is a good
| one. In a way it's even better than Coca Cola's. I can recognise
| the logo of both brands instantaneously but Pepsi's is simpler
| and has no lettering. It's also aesthetically pleasing.
| dirtyid wrote:
| I couldn't decide if this was guerilla marketing at the time and
| TBH still can't. Has there been other synapse breaking redesign
| campaigns since?
| totetsu wrote:
| pepsi. I thought at the time that this 'leaked document' was a
| brilliant piece of gorilla marketing. It was making an internet
| meme before they were ubiquitous, and we're still sharing it and
| laughing about it today. pepsi. contributing to brand omni
| presence pepsi.
| notsapiensatall wrote:
| A subversive element is called a guerilla.
|
| It's a loan word from Spanish meaning "little war".
| totetsu wrote:
| I wonder how much Richard Stallman gets paid to carry a bottle
| of diet coke everywhere he goes..
| lai-yin wrote:
| Don Draper would have vanished for a year-long bender if he read
| this
| jimbosis wrote:
| The current Pepsi logo has always reminded me of the SeaMonkey
| logo:
|
| https://www.seamonkey-project.org/
| alberth wrote:
| What came first: logo or journey?
|
| I wonder what was created first - the agency creating the new
| logo (and then backing into the justification for it), or did the
| justification for it _actually_ come first & that lead the
| agency down the path to how the logo was ultimately created.
| emehex wrote:
| Seems all very post-hoc
| dusted wrote:
| The graphics and correlations look impressive and somewhat
| convincing..
|
| I'll expose my ignorance here though and say that to this
| unenlightened, it looks like conjured up bullshit ..
| grayrest wrote:
| I've been laughing about this for years. I showed it to my
| graphic designer in 2014. She was delighted and did a small
| t-shirt run so I have the face on page 23 center row far right
| printed on a shirt.
| jat850 wrote:
| I would have been deeply disappointed if that wasn't the face
| you picked for the shirt. It's a complete capture of the
| entirety of the document.
| zhte415 wrote:
| When a marketing company does it for a soft drinks company does
| it, it gets ridiculed.
|
| When an engineer does it for the design of rollercoasters or
| boats, it gets praised.
|
| https://blogs.lt.vt.edu/2ndyearidlab/author/hohsuan/page/2/
|
| I see little difference of concepts used for the 'fair curve' and
| those of designing a bottle.
| walrus01 wrote:
| New band name: Pepsi gravitational field
| stinger wrote:
| they came up with the design first and then the justification :P
| sakarisson wrote:
| This reminds me a lot of Time Cube
|
| https://timecube.2enp.com/
| stinger wrote:
| edriscoll wrote:
| prolly paid millions of dollars for this and there's a typo on
| pg.18 smh
| Yahivin wrote:
| > The Pepsi Ratio is aesthetic geometry.
| bumper_crop wrote:
| When this came out, someone in my dorm made a mock of it on our
| whiteboard. With a few extra lines, it looks like a fat guy
| bending over. People always look for a human shape in what they
| see.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| Ok I'm getting tired of seeing this on HN now
| lofatdairy wrote:
| I don't think the title prepared me for this. I saw the first
| page and thought "oh, that's a terrible graphic, why are you
| moving away from the future". the mona lisa and taijitsu symbol
| seemed a bit over blown but still sorta grounded. I literally
| burst out laughing when I saw the contour lines and energy
| fields. Definitely was not prepared for "Pepsi Universe", either.
| I assume that by that point in the presentation the energy in the
| board room must be fever pitch for no one to point out how stupid
| that looks.
|
| Edit: Upon further reading about the guy who's behind this, Peter
| Arnell, it turns out he's possibly the harvey weinstein of the
| marketing business[^1]. It's a huge shame that neither this
| pseudointellectual bullshit, nor his string of workplace abuses,
| ruined his career. A consolation is that in 2011 his company got
| bought out and he got sacked.
|
| [^1]: The Newsweek article is a good read here:
| https://www.newsweek.com/crazy-genius-brand-guru-peter-arnel....
| There's also a Gawker piece that gives a pretty clear idea of how
| big of a piece of shit this guy is if you can stand the fact that
| it's Gawker: https://www.gawker.com/244608/new-yorks-worst-
| bosses-peter-a...
| iancmceachern wrote:
| And he called this work for Pepsi "BS"
|
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-the-firing-of-weird-design-...
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| > In pre-publicity for Shift, Arnell reveals that his habit
| of eating up to 50 oranges a day has left his hands bright
| orange in color.
|
| Bullshit. You'd be in a permanent sugar rush until your
| pancreas went on fire.
| oboes wrote:
| I don't know about Arnell's case, but it's actually
| possible to turn orange by eating orange things. Although I
| think it's more common with carrots and young children.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotenosis
| doctor_eval wrote:
| I've eaten heaps of young children and I haven't turned
| orange. /JK
| robocat wrote:
| Not even that difficult.
|
| My ex had a few excessive habits when she was 21, but one
| was eating lots of carrots (like a bag a day?) and her
| palms turned a distinct orange.
| astrange wrote:
| That's how flamingos turn pink.
|
| Humans occasionally turn permanently blue by being
| pranked into eating colloidal silver.
| soco wrote:
| No problem they'll just drink bleach to correct it.
| lliamander wrote:
| > if you can stand the fact that it's Gawker
|
| That's a tall order. How about I just take your word for it?
|
| And how is that site still I existence?
| dls2016 wrote:
| Gawker was bought during bankruptcy. I don't think there was
| any new content for many years.
|
| Since Weinstein was mentioned, I have to admit I read Gawker
| and therefore was not surprised when hearing the allegations
| against him in the broader media because Gawker had been
| writing about him for years. They made some big, obviously
| embarrassing decisions (especially Denton's stance on outing
| people), but imo got it right much more often than they got
| things wrong.
| ycombinete wrote:
| Gawker being terrible is a given, but they actually produced
| some good longform stuff for a while; so it's probably a good
| read.
| NavinF wrote:
| >Once he freaked out in a meeting because a CD did not work in
| the CD player, so he took the CD out and smashed it in to
| pieces on the conference room table. The IT guy , who was
| standing behind him, ended up going to the hospital because the
| shards from the CD flew into his eyes
|
| Did the author of this article ever try breaking a CD? They
| don't shatter like that and the shards certainly aren't gonna
| fly far enough to hit the guy behind you. I guess this is what
| happens when you report exclusively on gossip.
| _carbyau_ wrote:
| I sense ambiguity in the sentence: "a CD did not work in the
| CD player, so he took the CD out and smashed it in to pieces"
|
| Did he smash the CD or the CD player? What was "it"?
| hamburglar wrote:
| Having once found myself in a room with a hard tile floor,
| sound-dampening paneling, and a very large stack of old CD-
| ROMs that were to be thrown away, I can assure you that if
| you work on your technique over a few dozen iterations, you
| can reliably get them to shatter very nicely into little
| bitty shards.
| philliphaydon wrote:
| I used to break cds into a plastic bag because of all the
| little pieces that go flying around and difficult to clean
| up.
| scrollaway wrote:
| It sounds like you, and the people replying to you, haven't
| broken enough different CDs in different ways to be aware
| that there are many different ways they can shatter. Some are
| more rigid than others and will shatter hard and you can
| absolutely lose an eye.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> try breaking a CD? They don 't shatter like that and the
| shards certainly aren't gonna fly far_
|
| We once tried to bend a CD. It took a fair amount of effort
| but the opposite outer edges _almost_ touched. Lots of small
| cracks appeared and there was ominous creaking... When pushed
| a little further, I think the edges did touch first, but for
| a fraction of a second before !CRACK!, the disk _did_ shatter
| - there were two large parts (the outer quarters by width,
| approximately) remaining, a few other chunks, and the rest
| was a cloud of small parts liberally sprayed around the room.
| We were finding them for months afterwards, and some were
| sharply pointed. Even without a sharp point such a fragment
| would cause significant irritation if in contact with the eye
| just like any large particulate, and I certainly wouldn 't
| want bits hitting the eye at the speed they must have been
| moving to spread as far as they did.
|
| While the smashing-CD-on-the-table is very obviously
| apocryphal, perhaps holding one side on the edge of the desk
| and impacting the other with significant momentum (with a
| hammer?), or perhaps wedging it in place & kicking, could
| result in a snap what would also spray matter like this?
|
| Also, if that sentence is meaning he smashed the CD _player_
| on the desk rather than the disk then I can certainly imagine
| small parts flying around, if only bits from the plastic
| casing.
| femto wrote:
| The whole CD doesn't shatter, but the edges of the break do.
| To see this effect on steroids, put a CD through a shredder:
| a common security procedure. You're playing Russian Roulette
| with your eyeballs if you don't wear eye protection when
| doing this.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| What on earth are you doing that's causing this? I've never
| seen a shredded do anything other than chop a CD into
| little strips.
| Linda703 wrote:
| zaps wrote:
| So you want to go to graphic design school
| willmadden wrote:
| That's a lot of work to get people to drink carbonated sugar
| water.
| danielvaughn wrote:
| I've never seen this before and I feel like I need to know the
| story. Is this satire or is it real? And if it's real, was it
| leaked or something? No way Pepsi would willingly share this with
| the public lol.
| riffraff wrote:
| AFAIU this is real, but I contend that it's neither satire or
| real: it is in fact a marketing operation, and a very
| successful one.
|
| When this was "leaked" it was discussed for weeks, and you can
| see it is still discussed more than ten years after the fact.
|
| It's probably been more effective than most of the ad campaigns
| I can remember.
| henning wrote:
| It looks like the Time Cube guy got a job in advertising.
| endgame wrote:
| "The Pepsi ratio is aesthetic geometry" could indeed be lifted
| from the writings of Earth's Wisest Human.
| stazz1 wrote:
| it is a work of art
| [deleted]
| nomilk wrote:
| Surprising just how much the logo uses the Golden Ratio in the
| placement of the geometries [page 19], and generation of the
| circle sizes [page 20].
|
| Thought experiment: can a logo that heavily uses the Golden Ratio
| actually look bad? It could be the ultimate 'design for dummies'
| hack.
| kens wrote:
| The diagram of the Pepsi bottles (p7) reminds me of the classic
| computer art from 1968: "Running Cola is Africa", which
| interpolated between a runner, a cola bottle, and Africa. It was
| implemented in FORTRAN running on an IBM 7090 mainframe, and
| printed on a plotter. Maybe a bit tangential, but I've always
| thought it was an interesting piece of art. Kind of trivial now,
| but innovative 55 years ago for its use of interpolation to warp
| images.
|
| https://zkm.de/en/artwork/running-cola-is-africa
| sakarisson wrote:
| They should re-release this PDF as a series of NFTs
| stazz1 wrote:
| really this is a thorough study in upper-management-ese
| wodenokoto wrote:
| While we all love to hate on the design document, I actually
| think the final logo is really good.
| nprateem wrote:
| The thing I never understood was why Pepsi got into running that
| airline out of Korea
| Animats wrote:
| Branding hardly matters any more. If I order Diet Pepsi from
| Safeway, sometimes they substitute Diet Coke. Which is fine with
| me.
| iammjm wrote:
| Page 6/27: ah yes, the progress is truly inevitable - 3000 years
| of human ingenuity, starting off with numeric harmony through
| Euclidian Geometry, the golden proportion, the vitruvian man,
| Mobius and le Corbusier, all just a mere foreplay for the Big
| Thing to come around: behold, the tricolor perfecta of black
| sugared water in a can. what a time to be alive!
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| I see bullshit jobs existed in 2008 also.
|
| "a form of paid employment that is so completely pointless,
| unnecessary, or pernicious that even the employee cannot justify
| its existence even though, as part of the conditions of
| employment, the employee feels obliged to pretend that this is
| not the case."
| niscocity35 wrote:
| This is the most elaborate form of BS i have seen to date.
|
| My only take away from this post is that I like the 1962
| skeuomorphic Pepsi logo with the bottlecap.
| silisili wrote:
| Agreed. Really dig the 1929 and 1962 logos. It seems to just
| keep going downhill from there.
| vlark wrote:
| Wow. They sure do a lot of work trying to justify a shitty logo.
| And it worked. Let that be a lesson for us all.
| dqpb wrote:
| This reminds me of the pseudo science of new age "sacred
| geometry"
| Fargoan wrote:
| I'm not even joking, was this created by someone with
| schizophrenia or maybe during a manic episode? It reminds me of
| the connections my ex would make while she was manic. And those
| absurd connections made their way into her art.
| verytrivial wrote:
| Clearly, the war on drugs has been a failure.
| nicosaul wrote:
| Most expensive circle ever
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| It kind of makes me sad thinking about all the time and talent
| and money that went into this with the main purpose of getting
| people to buy and drink more (unhealthy) colored, carbonated,
| sugar water.
| mushufasa wrote:
| Well, that's what happens when you make what people want... I
| guess.
| toast0 wrote:
| Well, people didn't go for the uncolored version, even with the
| movie tie-in. So unhealthy colored it is. ;p
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| I actually like Crystal Pepsi when it came out and was sad
| when it was no longer available.
| civilized wrote:
| Breathtaking because of the breathing issues caused by obesity-
| induced apnea?
| bigdict wrote:
| It kills you, literally takes the breath away.
| ianseyer wrote:
| A funny parody song of this presentation by the legendary Neil
| Cicierega (potter puppet pals, ultimate battle of ultimate
| destiny, brodyquest, mouth sounds, etc...)
|
| https://youtu.be/fu3ETgAvQrw
| agloeregrets wrote:
| I was shocked to see this down so low. Absolute bop that
| perfectly outlines this nutcase thinking.
| jihadjihad wrote:
| Always a classic, and it never fails to make me laugh when I
| scroll through the smiley face section. Impossible to unsee:
| https://www.cannotunsee.net/post/730928004/pepsi/amp
| bitwize wrote:
| Kind of reminds me of Strong Sad.
| jbmny wrote:
| Anybody else see a resemblance to the awful Microsoft Teams
| emojis?
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| drivers99 wrote:
| I was also thinking of the same thing, which goes to show how
| great a work of culture jamming[1] it is.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_jamming "Tactics
| include editing company logos to critique the respective
| companies, products or concepts they represent[...]"
| guerrilla wrote:
| AdBusters is great for this[1]
|
| 1. https://www.adbusters.org/
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| Yes.
|
| https://www.utne.com/arts/new-pepsi-logo-is-a-joke/
| nbzso wrote:
| A long time ago, I ran a creative agency. One day, I realized how
| my and my colleagues' talents were being used to sell utter
| bullshit. Closed the business and switched to web-design. In
| early 2005, I convinced a big local banking tech company to focus
| on UX and UCD. Started a UX design business. In late 2015,
| overwhelmed by the infinite need for Dark Patterns by my clients,
| I killed "the business" again and switched purely to UI and
| frontend development.
|
| So I guess this is the "progress" we can offer to humanity,
| pretty pictures and shapes with psychological tricks for
| corporate speculation and self-validation.
| barbecue_sauce wrote:
| There's very little in this specific document that has anything
| to do with manipulation besides maybe the manipulation of
| marketing executives.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-07-12 23:03 UTC)