[HN Gopher] Project Naptha
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       Project Naptha
        
       Author : workah0lic
       Score  : 300 points
       Date   : 2022-07-11 03:06 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (projectnaptha.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (projectnaptha.com)
        
       | zxexz wrote:
       | I thought this seemed familiar. Discussed on HN 3 years ago [0]
       | 
       | I remember using this for a while on a separate Chrome profile.
       | It was quite useful, albeit quite CPU intensive.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20919147
        
       | mcintyre1994 wrote:
       | I love this idea, Apple recently added it for saved photos on iOS
       | and I think in preview too? It doesn't seem to be working for me
       | though. I highlighted some text, hit ctrl + c and got this in my
       | clipboard:
       | 
       | <[ TEXT RECOGNITION IN PROGRESS / MORE INFO:
       | http://projectnaptha.com/process/
       | (IDX:a:0-a:1-a:2-b:7&a:0&a:0&168&817:XDI) / ELAPSED 26.11SEC /
       | DATE Mon, 11 Jul 2022 08:08:50 GMT / TEXT RECOGNITION IN PROGRESS
       | ]>
       | 
       | The right-click translate doesn't seem to work either, it just
       | selects a whole paragraph.
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | It works on all images in Safari on macOS as well. It's
         | actually been helpful but was very odd when all of a sudden the
         | functionality appeared out of the blue.
        
           | wahnfrieden wrote:
           | it has a full dev sdk as well
        
           | irae wrote:
           | Even though I watch WWDC every year and the iPhone release
           | event, I was surprised with how it works, and how fast it is.
           | Basically hovering my mouse over any image (ouside of Google
           | Chrome/Brave/Firefox) changes the cursor to selectable after
           | half a second or so.
           | 
           | Took me a while to get used to. But it has ben actually
           | useful a number of times. My most common use-case (as a
           | front-end developer) is when people send me screenshots of
           | bugs, and I can select, copy, paste texts from the
           | screenshots to find the source code files =)
        
       | keyle wrote:
       | Interesting but I thought my mac already does this? Maybe just M1
       | and Monterey.
       | 
       | I was trying to debug some image the other day, upon inspection I
       | got confused by the shadow dom doing weird stuff, but only in
       | safari; to then realise that it was macOS converting the text in
       | the image to text in shadow dom! ... Good/bad experience report I
       | suppose.
       | 
       | ref. https://support.apple.com/en-
       | au/guide/preview/prvw625a5b2c/m...
        
         | irae wrote:
         | Macs and iPhones have been doing selectable text for a while
         | now. Especially if you use Safari instead of Chrome. All images
         | have selectable text since Monterey and iOS 15. It existed to a
         | lesser extent in previous years.
         | 
         | Some of the features Naptha aims to do are not part of it
         | though, like translating, removing the text from the image, and
         | some other right click behavior. On the other hand, Apple is
         | using this without any connection, which Napha says it is
         | availble but with degraded quality and slower speed. Apple
         | probably uses their optimized ML silicon, so I would imagine is
         | is more battery efficient for using on the go.
        
           | mzs wrote:
           | seems in English only
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | Android does this too, though you have to go into the app
         | switcher for it to work. Super useful.
        
           | oittaa wrote:
           | It would be great if Google allowed that everywhere. Does
           | anyone know if it's on the roadmap?
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | I think the extra step of going into the app switcher is
             | not really an issue. It works for every app, and I actually
             | like that I know whether I'm using the OCR or traditional
             | copy/paste because OCR isn't perfect. When I copy from the
             | app switcher I know I need to double check the results
             | after pasting. If it just did OCR automatically all the
             | time I'd probably be surprised after copying some text and
             | realizing later that there was an OCR mistake in the result
             | because I didn't realize that OCR had been used.
        
         | brian_herman wrote:
         | Yes I think you can do it in preview too.
        
           | kbouck wrote:
           | ... and on iphone/ipad
           | 
           | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212630
        
         | eastendguy wrote:
         | The Mac built-in tool does not work on Youtube videos, which is
         | one of my use cases for the Copyfish OCR tool. This, and the
         | integrated translation.
        
       | LegitShady wrote:
       | the front page still contains references to google+
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | What's the catch?
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | Today it's replacing the text in PNGs.
         | 
         | Tomorrow it's replacing us. Duh duh duh...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | avmich wrote:
       | > Unfortunately, your browser is not yet supported
       | 
       | Latest version of Firefox? Seriously?
        
       | holler wrote:
       | Really cool! I went to try the translate feature but each time I
       | left-click to open the nav menu (macOs) it deselects the text? I
       | know it says right-click but for me it's left-click to open the
       | menu.
        
       | draugadrotten wrote:
       | This extension is a privacy nightmare. "By default, when you
       | begin selecting text, it sends a secure HTTPS request containing
       | the URL of the specific image... The server responds with a list
       | of existing translations and OCR languages that have been done."
       | 
       | That is some pretty sensitive data to keep around. There seems to
       | be some rudimentary thinking around privacy: "no user tokens, no
       | website information, no cookies or analytics" Yet keeping an
       | index of all the image requests from any IP would not pass muster
       | by any GDPR lawyer I have met.
       | 
       | http://my-support-group/advice-for-disease.jpg http://my-
       | political-group/campaign-ideas.jpg http://my-therapy-
       | group/suicide-prevention.jpg
       | 
       | https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/refo...
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | There are probably some hacking angles too, e.g. I wonder if
         | the API will helpfully tell me the contents of
         | https://mybank.com/user/latest-statement.jpg or whatever
        
       | shubhamjain wrote:
       | This makes me feel old. I saw it for the first time in 2014 on
       | HN, just when it was announced. I felt kind of envious of Kevin
       | Kwok, author of this project. I had just graduated and he was
       | still an undergrad. He had already shipped so many complex
       | projects, including a full-fledged Flash Animator[1] for the web.
       | 
       | It's pretty surprising to see that his site hasn't been updated
       | since 2015 and not many projects have been shipped since then.
       | 
       | [1]: https://antimatter15.com/project/ajax-animator/
        
         | gfd wrote:
         | i remember the last time i saw his name was on
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14894653 (which i guess
         | lost against tensorflow.js?) in around 2017 or so.
        
         | zxexz wrote:
         | Ahh, I did an Algolia search just now and found the 2019
         | post[0] but thought that felt a bit recent for what I remember.
         | I can't find that 2014 post, however - do you have a link?
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20919147
        
           | shubhamjain wrote:
           | Here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7629396
        
       | me_again wrote:
       | What I would really like is a little bit like this but not quite
       | the same: full text search over everything I have ever seen on
       | the computer. It would read and index the emails, web pages, word
       | docs, etc as I open them, then later when I think "I know I saw a
       | doc about cache oblivious algorithms", I can search for it
       | without being distracted by 100K documents I haven't seen. Or I
       | can find that email I read, without finding the same phrase in a
       | bunch of junk mail I never opened.
       | 
       | Does anything remotely similar exist?
        
         | joshu wrote:
         | this has been built before. the problem is that it also needs
         | attention for ranking
        
         | rhn_mk1 wrote:
         | For the web part, there's a tool called Recoll, and a browser
         | plugin Recoll-we.
        
         | ryanfox wrote:
         | I've been working on exactly that! [0]
         | 
         | My info is in my hn profile, if you (or anyone reading) would
         | like to chat about it.
         | 
         | [0] https://apse.io
        
         | aastronaut wrote:
         | There was once a thread here on hacker news about missing
         | features of operating systems, as such a thing could only be
         | achieved on OS level... can't find it anymore, unfortunately.
         | It was mentioned that passwords etc. could be a nightmare. A
         | feature like that would be a big dream of mine: Some kind of an
         | individualized semantic archiving processing and a vector
         | search engine to search through it.
        
         | AB1908 wrote:
         | Try looking at karilicoss' promnesia and it's background for
         | similar ideas and tools.
        
         | applgo443 wrote:
         | I considered doing this - take screenshots of your screen
         | constantly, OCR them and index them. It's fairly simple.
         | However, there are some problems
         | 
         | - OCR constantly running in the background is power consuming -
         | What granularity do you take your screenshots? Imagine each
         | screenshot is 500 Kb and you take one each second. This'd
         | result in 40 gigs of data per day. How are we gonna store it?
         | How many days data do you want to keep?
        
           | billwashere wrote:
           | That's Apse - A Personal Search Engine
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27965979
        
           | nly wrote:
           | Privacy?
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Since parent is taking power consumption and disk storage
             | into consideration, it's fair to assume they are
             | considering a local approach, meaning privacy is as
             | good/bad as any other local data you have on disk today.
        
         | DocTomoe wrote:
         | For Windows, Google used to have something like that. Because
         | it's Google, it has since been discontinued [1].
         | 
         | Mac's finder is close to what you have described, and works
         | reasonably well for me.
         | 
         | On Unix, this sounds like something a grep one-liner (maybe
         | with some document depacking/packing pipe for Office documents)
         | would do.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Desktop
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
         | you know,,,, there was a april fools day annoucement on
         | torrentfreak years ago, maybe a decade, it was describing this
         | behaviour. that was nice
        
         | isaacimagine wrote:
         | I've seen this been called a 'personal search engine' before.
         | One person who is well known for their personal search setup is
         | thesephist[0]. My friend is also working on an extension that
         | uses NLP to semantically index your browsing history so that
         | any text on the internet can be turned into a hyperlink to
         | something else you've read[1].
         | 
         | [0]: https://thesephist.com/posts/monocle/
         | 
         | [1]: (WIP) http://espial.uzpg.me
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | solardev wrote:
         | I think windows and Mac both do this by default, no? Just
         | disable the web search and your local full text is what you're
         | left with.
        
           | The5thElephant wrote:
           | I believe they meant they want something that searches only
           | content the user has personally directly accessed, not ALL
           | local content.
        
             | invalidusernam3 wrote:
             | Ordering by "Date Last Opened" or "Date Modified" does a
             | fairly good job in some cases
        
               | theK wrote:
               | This does introduce sorting contention though, what to
               | sort for first? relevance or date accessed? Ideally you
               | would want to introduce date accessed as an aspect of
               | relevance itself.
        
             | ricardobeat wrote:
             | Spotlight on Mac will show you recently opened, or
             | frequently opened, files first.
        
             | fnord123 wrote:
             | I thought we all disabled access time (mounting with
             | noatime) to avoid trashing SSDs so quickly.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | It doesn't index text in local image files, and it doesn't
           | index over the full text of all the webpages and epubs I've
           | read.
        
         | suby wrote:
         | I've read comments from people (don't remember the forum,
         | perhaps HN) where people have said that they did this. No idea
         | if there's a public project for this that you can use, but
         | people have definitely done it. I agree that it'd be useful to
         | have, though you probably need a good way to filter out
         | irrelevant stuff.
        
         | bitL wrote:
         | Open-text question answering. Just make your own; index all
         | paragraphs of all documents using TF-IDF as you access them,
         | then when trying to search for something, use this index to get
         | a set of candidate paragraphs and run them through BERT-QA
         | trained on SQuAD v2. You can extend this to the content of
         | images - first run image captioning using CNN and transformers,
         | then index the resulting paragraphs the same way (in both
         | cases, include a link to the original in the metadata). You
         | might need to write some browser plugin/system driver to do it
         | automatically as you access documents/images.
        
         | bmn__ wrote:
         | The pieces exist, you can string them together with a Perl one-
         | liner. You are interested in the set intersection of the
         | following two topics:
         | 
         | Full indexing: <https://lesbonscomptes.com/recoll>,
         | <https://userbase.kde.org/Akonadi>,
         | <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/falcon_extension> (If
         | you're not content with a piece, then research substitutes on
         | <https://alternativeto.net>.)
         | 
         | Recent: `.local/share/recently-used.xbel`
         | 
         | This does not help with the email part because email programs
         | do not register opened messages in _recently used_. Work-
         | around: install a DBus or AT-SPI hook and write your own
         | database of recently opened messages.
         | 
         | Happy hacking!
        
           | shishironline wrote:
           | Thank you for sharing this
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | There used to be a project that kind if did this:
         | https://beagle-project.org/. It's long since defunct and I'm
         | always surprised that nothing emerged to fill the gap?
         | 
         | EDIT: I did a bit of Wikipedia rabbit holing only to discover
         | that tracker [1] is currently running on my computer and
         | indexing my files
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracker_(search_software)
        
       | tim-- wrote:
       | I had this extension on my Chrome browser a few years ago, and
       | was dumbfounded when I thought that Chrome had added the ability
       | to not only OCR PNG files - but also replace the text in them!
       | 
       | Completely forgot that I installed this extension years earlier.
       | 
       | Crazy extension!
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Does Naptha still work? I recently reviewed all installed chrome
       | extensions and it seemed broken, so I removed it.
        
       | jtth wrote:
       | I find things like TextSniper to be more useful than this
       | functionality, which has been in iOS and MacOS for a little bit.
       | I use it more on hypothetically selectable elements that for
       | whatever DOM-related reason aren't selectable than I use it on
       | text in images.
        
       | nit987 wrote:
       | Hey, loved it. How much time it took to develop this?
        
       | jordemort wrote:
       | This needs a year annotation - I almost emailed to express
       | interest in a Firefox version until I noticed the references to
       | Chrome 36 and Google+
        
         | crorella wrote:
         | hehe, I was thinking the same, then I read your comment.
         | 
         | I wish they give support to Firefox in the future, getting text
         | (and even modifying it!) is something I need to do often.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | Opening via Firefox shows me this:
           | 
           | > Depending on the number of sign-ups, a Firefox version may
           | be released in a few weeks. If you're interested in Naptha
           | for other browsers, email me.
           | 
           | So they're at the very least considering it.
           | 
           | EDIT: Never mind, it says so since 2014: https://web.archive.
           | org/web/20140425003753/https://projectna...
        
         | Ajedi32 wrote:
         | Yeah, I wonder if there's a more modern version of this
         | somewhere. On-device OCR is probably good enough now that a
         | fully-offline-by-default version of this might make sense, and
         | that's something I might actually use.
        
           | wanderlust2021 wrote:
           | Copyfish uses offline OCr.
        
         | eastendguy wrote:
         | Copyfish is a good alternative to Project Naptha and works in
         | Firefox:
         | 
         | https://ocr.space/copyfish
        
       | ralfd wrote:
       | This is a cool project, but this is a bit embarrassing:
       | 
       | > I started building a text recognizer algorithm specifically
       | designed for Impact font, and it was actually working pretty
       | well, but I kind of misplaced the code somewhere. So, until I
       | find it or replace it, you'll have to use Tesseract configured
       | with the "Internet Meme" language.
        
       | poulpy123 wrote:
       | what I would like to find is a free a cheap way to OCR my
       | handwritten notes. I know that handwritten is much more difficult
       | but it would be possible to use supervised learning mon my
       | specific handwriting.
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | OneNote's recognition of my handwriting--once described by a
         | tutor as 'dogs dribble'--is nothing short of miraculous.
         | 
         | OneNote only does recognition for search and by text-block, you
         | can't select as in the OP; would love that feature.
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | I want something similar for digitization of photos from
         | whiteboarding sessions.
         | 
         | I think it would be an awesome way to capture notes from design
         | sessions while still allowing the fluidity of a real
         | whiteboard.
        
       | _tom_ wrote:
       | Nice! This works slightly better than apple's version, which
       | makes it very hard to select the main image, once it detects text
       | in the image. Naphtha seems to handle this correctly!
        
       | rexreed wrote:
       | This project is almost a decade old! I wonder why it resurfaced?
       | Coincidentally or perhaps not the book in the post "How to do
       | nothing with nobody all by yourself" also is a top HN post right
       | now. Maybe related?
        
       | emmelaich wrote:
       | FWIW, there is a Chrome app for cloud vision, OCR.
       | 
       | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cloud-vision/nblmo...
       | 
       | By a Google employee I understand but not official Google product
       | of course.
        
       | Nition wrote:
       | A related trick for _text_ that you can 't usually select: Hold
       | Alt. For instance try using the mouse to select text in
       | http://www.google.com with and without Alt.
        
       | a-dub wrote:
       | last time i saw this the ocr component of it was tesseract
       | (originally hp's c++ ocr engine, later acquired and open sourced
       | by google, even later rewritten to use neural networks) compiled
       | into webassembly.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | conorcleary wrote:
       | Submitters need to get back to more descriptive titles on HN. If
       | this post is the first and only exposure to this project for a
       | user, "Project Naptha" alone doesn't give me confidence to roll
       | the dice and click on an unknown link unless there are existing
       | comments I can investigate. Thus, chicken and egg, scroll by.
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | True, that said, it made it to the front page... and while not
         | everything on the front page is super interesting, it does give
         | it a bit weight on the dice roll fun.
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | I never heard of it and I clicked because the name intrigued
         | me. You might benefit from a link preview extension to reduce
         | the friction to explore links before comments.
        
         | jessmartin wrote:
         | Adding the "subtitle" from the site itself would provide at
         | least a bit of helpful context: "highlight, copy, and translate
         | text from any image."
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | They probably put a descriptive title and then had a mod edit
         | it to use the non-descriptive page title instead, as per HN's
         | usual policy and practice.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | i don't think that happened. in my understanding that rule
           | applies to article titles, not to site titles.
           | 
           | in my opinion, when posting a site, then a description,
           | ideally taken from the site, should be included.
           | 
           | this is kind of a variation of a "show HN", like "look what i
           | found"
        
         | cyberbanjo wrote:
         | Browser extension OCR: From the homepage "Project Naptha
         | automatically applies state-of-the-art computer vision
         | algorithms on every image you see while browsing the web. The
         | result is a seamless and intuitive experience, where you can
         | highlight as well as copy and paste and even edit and translate
         | the text formerly trapped within an image. "
        
       | adastra22 wrote:
       | > Unfortunately, your browser is not yet supported
       | 
       | Safari on macOS.
        
         | terramex wrote:
         | Safari has its own, built-in implementation of that called Live
         | Text since last year. Just try highlighting any text in the
         | image and voila - it works.
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/preview/prvw625a5b2c/m...
        
         | WesternWind wrote:
         | Same with Firefox on MacOS here.
        
           | irae wrote:
           | Very interesting that Firefox would have this level of
           | integration with the OS. Firefox of old was criticized
           | specifically for being completelly not native to macOS. Times
           | change. I might give Firefox a shot in the recent future.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | I don't think he is saying it is working?
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | Ironic, because Safari already does this natively.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-11 23:02 UTC)