[HN Gopher] Love Song to Costco
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Love Song to Costco
        
       Author : prostoalex
       Score  : 350 points
       Date   : 2022-07-10 22:16 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (longreads.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (longreads.com)
        
       | atlgator wrote:
       | I wish Costco still had early entry for elderly and disabled.
       | That was really nice during the pandemic.
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | Somewhere there's a grandma that still has a garage full of
         | toilet paper thanks to getting in the door early.
        
       | jnord wrote:
       | Great story, thanks for sharing!
        
       | W-Stool wrote:
       | In 2005 my wife and I lived in a part of the USA that had no
       | Costco within a half day's drive. We soon secured jobs in a part
       | of the USA that had two (two!) Costcos in the same city that we
       | would live. True story - before we even looked for housing, I
       | went online and joined Costco. Years later my diabetic cat even
       | had a Costco pharmacy account (best place to buy insulin by far)
       | and received a discount for being without health insurance.
        
         | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
         | I have a Costco account and a Sam's Club (Walmart's Costco
         | equivalent) account. Even though I do something like 98% of my
         | bulk shopping at Sam's club (due to proximity, the Costco is ~
         | 15 min drive away vs 5 mins for the Sam's club), it's still
         | worth it for me to hold the Costco membership for specific
         | purchases. Notably I've purchased (because there's no better
         | place to buy these things and the vendor vetting is amazing)
         | bedsheets, smart thermostats & a sauna from Costco over the
         | last year and those have easily made back the $60 USD it cost
         | me to buy the membership. I'll probably end up buying a gazebo
         | kit from Costco sometime in the next year.
         | 
         | I think for semi-big purchases ($USD 200 to $USD $20,000) as a
         | consumer Costco has huge value. The vendor vetting thing may
         | not be as important when it comes to a bag of chips, but when
         | it comes to a $4,000 gazebo or some $2,000 appliance I have
         | really come to trust Costco's vetting.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | > when it comes to a $4,000 gazebo or some $2,000 appliance I
           | have really come to trust Costco's vetting.
           | 
           | How does that jive with selling Samsung (and LG) appliances?
           | Samsung is easily the worst appliance manufacturer in North
           | America across pretty much any appliance. LG's not too much
           | better but supposedly their dryers and front load washers are
           | decent.
        
             | noSyncCloud wrote:
             | > Samsung is easily the worst appliance manufacturer in
             | North America
             | 
             | > LG's not too much better
             | 
             | Any sources for these blazing hot takes? Or are we supposed
             | to take your hearsay at face value?
        
               | pooper wrote:
               | > Samsung is easily the worst appliance manufacturer in
               | North America
               | 
               | I don't know this firsthand but I too have seen a lot of
               | this recently. Even before COVID. I am specifically
               | thinking appliances like refrigerators, oven ranges, and
               | washer/dryers. Maybe some microwave ovens.
               | 
               | Maybe Samsung just outsells everyone else making the
               | problems more visible but it seems a lot of people love
               | complaining about Samsung.
        
               | rascul wrote:
               | For a couple years I delivered and installed appliances
               | for Lowe's. We brought back (ie customer returned) LG and
               | Samsung just as much as Whirlpool and GE, even though we
               | sold significantly less of the LG and Samsung appliances.
               | I was told that the closest person able to service them
               | was 250+ miles away. Also, LG and Samsung tended to scrap
               | an entire new fridge for seemingly trivial stuff, such as
               | an ice maker not working. I've never owned a LG or
               | Samsung appliance but from the number of returns I've
               | seen, I certainly wouldn't want a fridge or front load
               | washer from either manufacturer.
        
               | christophilus wrote:
               | Last time I shopped for a fridge (2 years ago, maybe)
               | every single sales guy and maintenance guy I talked to at
               | maybe 4 different stores said: "Never buy a Samsung."
               | 
               | They all seemed to think that LG had gotten its act
               | together, though. I ended up with an LG fridge.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | I've currently got an LG fridge that's a year old.
               | Everyone's said that this is one of their most reliable
               | refrigerators and yet here I am with a 60deg freezer. The
               | nicest thing I can say is that the warranty process is
               | hugely disjointed and parts are 2+ weeks out.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | I'll pile on Samsung being absolute garbage. Same is true
               | for GE and LG. Went through three fridges before the
               | warranty ran out. Then just bit the bullet and bought a
               | Bosch 800 and have had zero trouble since.
        
               | IntelMiner wrote:
               | I think they were stated as opinions, not citable facts
        
             | adwi wrote:
             | Tangential but have been buying appliances for the first
             | time and have been deep in research of what to do with a
             | small-moderate budget.
             | 
             | I had indeed heard the same about Samsung, and more
             | generally designed service lives < 7 years across brands
             | with better reputations.
             | 
             | I elected to buy all used but (good condition) late-model
             | Miele appliances. They're rated at 20+ years, they focus on
             | reliability and repairability, and if you're patient you
             | can get them for less than even the cheapest Samsung etc
             | models, especially when taxes are taken into account.
             | 
             | Not to mention they're the best quality appliances money
             | can buy. I definitely don't need a paella mode on my
             | dishwasher, but it makes me smile every time (and remember
             | I paid $200 for it)
        
               | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
               | It reminds me of the very popular Reddit thread from
               | about a decade ago where a vacuum cleaner repair guy said
               | that Miele's were his preferred vacuum and recommended
               | them above most others: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/com
               | ments/1pe2bd/iama_vacuum_re...
        
             | dhd415 wrote:
             | In addition to the manufacturer, the type of appliance and
             | its manufacture date really matters. I have an LG front-
             | loading washing machine from the late 2000s that has been
             | working fine for 14 years with one minor circuit board
             | replacement. My appliance repair guy says that LGs from
             | that timeframe are very reliable. When the motor bearings
             | on that washer go out, I'll have him replace the motor if
             | OEM replacement motors are available rather than buy a new
             | one.
             | 
             | Refrigerators are a completely different animal as are
             | dishwashers, etc. Despite my great experiences with LG
             | washers, I'd avoid LG refrigerators. I've had good
             | experience with multiple Bosch and Miele dishwashers, but
             | mediocre experiences on all the new fridges I've bought in
             | the last 10 years.
        
             | rexf wrote:
             | Shopping for appliances is not easy.
             | 
             | For my recent purchase, I looked at wirecutter as a
             | starting point and bought from Costco. Also I got a 3rd
             | party extended warranty (since you never know with water-
             | using appliances).
             | 
             | According to Wirecutter (NYT): "If you're a member, Costco
             | offers the cheapest delivery and installation of the big
             | national chains, you'll get an additional year of warranty
             | coverage for many products, and it will help you make
             | warranty claims with the manufacturer."
             | 
             | https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/where-to-buy-
             | appl...
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | kfrzcode wrote:
             | I've been happy with my Samsung range, fridge, dishwasher
             | and TV
             | 
             | It's been 6months. When should I expect issues?
        
               | greenthrow wrote:
               | The TV will probably hold up just fine, other than the
               | ads it will show if connected to the internet.
               | 
               | Samsung/LG appliances (washer/dryer, fridge, etc.)
               | usually last 5 years or less. Whereas a quality appliance
               | should last 10 years or more. My source on this is
               | friends who work in the industry plus the experience of
               | family members who bought LG/Samsung appliances anyway.
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | 1-5 years typically
        
           | cyberge99 wrote:
           | Costco also works out deals to sell "special" revisions of
           | major brand offerings. One example is a Sony Bravia that has
           | a physical microphone disable switch.
        
             | anotherman554 wrote:
             | If you are referring to the A80j model the Costco exclusive
             | Bravia has a microphone disable switch because it has a
             | microphone. The standard Bravia has no microphone at all.
        
             | alliao wrote:
             | wow. I'm sold.
        
             | 8ytecoder wrote:
             | Or the Sonos Arc SL that doesn't have a microphone at all.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | Though it's worth keeping in mind that they also have a lot
             | of items with unique model numbers/SKUs that are actually
             | entirely identical otherwise, to make it less obvious that
             | the version at Costco is $X cheaper than the one available
             | everywhere else.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _Years later my diabetic cat even had a Costco pharmacy
         | account (best place to buy insulin by far) and received a
         | discount for being without health insurance._
         | 
         | IIRC, you don't need a membership to:
         | 
         | * shop at the pharmacy
         | 
         | * buy alcohol
         | 
         | * eat at the food court
         | 
         | I believe the first two are due to govt regulations, and may
         | only apply in certain states.
         | 
         | It's also much easier for anyone to shop at Costco with a
         | spouse's/friend's membership card now that they have self-
         | checkout. You used to have to worry about the cashier flagging
         | you if the cardholder wasn't there, but now there's no one who
         | even looks at your card.
        
           | rdl wrote:
           | Just get someone to give you Costco gift cards; you can then
           | enter the store with that gift card, and use other payment
           | mechanism for the balance of purchase.
        
           | legalcorrection wrote:
           | > _It 's also much easier for anyone to shop at Costco with a
           | spouse's/friend's membership card now that they have self-
           | checkout. You used to have to worry about the cashier
           | flagging you if the cardholder wasn't there, but now there's
           | no one who even looks at your card._
           | 
           | Or how about don't be a liar/cheater and buy your own
           | membership. It's not expensive and it pays for itself fast.
           | Shame on whoever does this.
        
             | nwatson wrote:
             | Yeah. I almost think of Costco as a privatized utopian
             | socialist mini-state. One should pay to be a good citizen.
             | ... But then I've also thought it would be cool to build an
             | app to help people organize trips to Costco from "food
             | deserts" to split memberships and bulk-sized items and the
             | bill.
             | 
             | Also, once on a trip to Hawaii with my wife and extended
             | family I had my arm around my wife in the Costco checkout
             | line. I mentioned that "it feels so good and so right." My
             | wife was at first flattered and then realized I was talking
             | about the universality of the Costco experience.
        
             | tacocataco wrote:
             | It's been a while since I was a member, but I remember
             | being able to get my sister her own card attached to my
             | account. I just gave the cashier her name and the next time
             | she went in by herself she got her card.
        
               | legalcorrection wrote:
               | Yes, the standard membership covers two people for the
               | base price. Makes circumventing the membership
               | requirement all the more scummy and petty.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | I don't know about the food court, but alcohol is
             | definitely true for legal reasons in some states. In
             | Connecticut our local Costco had its alcohol sales in a
             | separate entrance next to the main warehouse, on the
             | opposite end from the tire department.
             | 
             | To add another one, the same is true nationwide for their
             | optometrists, you can get your eyes checked there without a
             | membership but won't be able to buy glasses. If you want a
             | place to get your prescription without a hassle from the
             | optometrist (who is legally required to give you the
             | prescription but isn't necessarily happy about that),
             | Costco is a reliable option.
             | 
             | https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/
             | 8...
             | 
             | https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-
             | ey...
        
               | legalcorrection wrote:
               | I mean using someone else's membership card. Nothing
               | wrong with using services that don't require membership.
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | Yes. This is what people should be ashamed about. Good for
             | you for shitting on people! /s
        
           | ortusdux wrote:
           | The alcohol restriction is at the state level, so some stores
           | do require a membership.
           | 
           | Namely : Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii,
           | Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Texas,
           | & Vermont have laws that ban requiring memberships for the
           | purchase of alcohol.
           | 
           | IIRC, Costco's lobbiests played a large role in Washington's
           | privatization of liquor sales, and the final law did not
           | include such a restriction.
           | 
           | For those interested, the break even on a 2% cash back
           | membership is at the $2k/year.
        
             | karlding wrote:
             | I think the break even point for the upgrade is actually
             | $3k/year, not $2k/year?
             | 
             | The standard Gold Star Membership costs $60/year, and the
             | Gold Star Executive Membership costs $120/year [0]. This is
             | an additional $60/year (ignoring sales tax, etc.).
             | 
             | In order to break even, you need to earn at least $60 using
             | the 2% cash back from the Executive Membership in order to
             | cover the upgrade. This works out to ($60/year) / 0.02 =
             | $3k/year.
             | 
             | [0] https://customerservice.costco.com/app/answers/detail/a
             | _id/8...
        
               | walrus01 wrote:
               | The standard $60 a year membership can pay for itself
               | fairly quick just in gasoline price savings (often 20c or
               | more better than other local stations) if you happen to
               | frequently drive along a freeway that has a Costco on
               | your route.
               | 
               | Can easily be a $8 per tank difference.
        
               | ThunderSizzle wrote:
               | Definitely true now. Under Trump, Costco was only beating
               | by 1-5 cents, sometimes. Now, they can be half a dollar
               | cheaper easily.
        
               | IgorPartola wrote:
               | You also save money compared to shopping elsewhere which
               | is really the major contributor to it being worth it.
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Do you? None of the stuff we buy from Costco is cheaper
               | compared with other local grocery stores. I mean,
               | ignoring the hot dogs and rotisserie chicken, obviously.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | Fun fact, if you get the upgraded membership and don't
             | spend enough to make up the difference from the regular
             | membership, they will refund you the difference if you ask.
             | 
             | So technically it doesn't make any sense to not get the
             | premium membership as long as you're willing to float them
             | the difference for a year.
        
               | Caboose8685 wrote:
               | Where is this stated in their rules or whatever?
               | Something I can reference if I need to try this and the
               | person pushes back.
        
               | frumper wrote:
               | They're more than happy to tell me about this, so I'm
               | sure if you ask they will be happy to share with you.
               | They'll even refund the whole membership
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Never seen it written down. They just told me once at
               | customer service when I went to cash my rebate check and
               | they noticed it was smaller than the membership price
               | difference.
        
               | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
               | I can confirm that this is true.
        
               | aix1 wrote:
               | > as long as you're willing to float them the difference
               | for a year
               | 
               | ...and remember to ask for a refund.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | Unless something has changed recently, if you don't make
             | enough in cash back to cover the difference between the
             | regular membership and the executive one, you can go by
             | customer service and they'll comp you the difference.
        
               | labster wrote:
               | I think the 2% thing is a customer incentive thing, and
               | not intended to be a profit center. And that doesn't work
               | as well if people feel like they're gambling on whether
               | they will make enough purchases to justify it, if they
               | feel like losers in the end.
        
             | wil421 wrote:
             | Georgia lets you buy liquor without a membership but it's a
             | separate store within a store that has its own entrance.
             | Corporations and families are also limited to owning 2
             | liquor stores in the state so only 2 Costcos sell liquor.
        
             | wyldfire wrote:
             | In Texas the Costcos have a liquor store that does not
             | require a membership. But so far as I can tell, the alcohol
             | sold in the Costco-proper likely does require a membership.
             | Perhaps the presence of the liquor store satisfies the
             | legal requirement.
        
               | tristor wrote:
               | In Texas, liquor (spirits) sales and non-spirits sales
               | are different classes of licenses with different rules.
               | Costco in Texas does NOT sell any spirits/liquor inside
               | of the membership area, only beer, wine, and premixed
               | cocktails (e.g. margarita in a bottle, which is made with
               | agave wine not tequila anyway). The attached non-member
               | liquor store is the only part which sells spirits, and as
               | required by Texas law is open to the public without a
               | membership.
               | 
               | Related to this, Texas also has "blue laws" which ended
               | in 1985 other than the parts covering automotive dealers
               | and liquor stores. So in Texas, liquor stores cannot be
               | open on Sundays (nor can car lots). This is another
               | reason Costco may be incentivized to not sell liquor
               | within the member-only part of the store separately from
               | the other requirements from TABC, because they are open
               | on Sundays.
        
               | wil421 wrote:
               | We have similar liquor/beer/wine laws in Georgia.
               | Recently they did away with no sales on Sunday and some
               | local "mimosa" brunch laws that allow restaurants to sell
               | alcohol before 12:30. Good forbid someone drinking
               | watching sports before church gets out.
               | 
               | Anyway, grocery stores will turn off the beer cooler
               | lights on Sunday morning and put a note with the time
               | they will be able to sell it.
        
             | ghufran_syed wrote:
             | It's also worth knowing that you don't have to spend the
             | "Cashback" voucher in the store, you can go to customer
             | services and they'll give you actual cash instead! I just
             | learned this after being a member for 14 years...
        
             | labster wrote:
             | Just buying gasoline at Costco is more than enough to pay
             | back the membership fee in California. It's about
             | 50C//gallon cheaper than other fuel in the same city.
        
               | merlyn wrote:
               | In Minnesota it is about $0.20 cheaper than the discount
               | gas places.
               | 
               | I'd definately pay $2.60 more to avoid the crazy people
               | jamming Costco's parking lots trying to get that 20 cents
               | off. I've narrowly avoided many people going anywhere
               | they could at ramming speed while I was visiting a
               | neighboring business.
               | 
               | I now avoid their neighboring businesses on every weekend
               | as I value my life and car to avoid that whole scene.
        
               | sammalloy wrote:
               | > I'd definately pay $2.60 more to avoid the crazy people
               | jamming Costco's parking lots trying to get that 20 cents
               | off.
               | 
               | It might have something to do with the age of their
               | pumps. My Costco just put in new pumps and the long lines
               | go really fast. I don't know for sure what changed, but
               | more people are tapping to pay now (or using the Costco
               | keychain chip) and the pumps flow twice as fast than
               | before. It has really made a noticeable difference.
               | Before, I would spend 5-10 minutes in the line as well as
               | pumping, and now it's less than five minutes total when
               | it's busy.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Costco gas is also Top Tier branded, and I trust Costco
               | to maintain their equipment and tanks and source better
               | quality gas than other independently owned stations.
        
               | sammalloy wrote:
               | This is the primary reason I use Costco gas. I've had
               | nothing but problems with bad gas from other companies in
               | my area.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I used to think this. The Costco in Redwood City is a
               | good deal compared to most stations, but the cheap
               | station on Woodside Rd. (< 2 miles away) is basically the
               | same price. It also never has long lines, which I often
               | find at Costco.
        
               | labster wrote:
               | I used to think it was false, and that the price drop
               | wouldn't pay for the extra distance to Costco, but times
               | have changed since the invasion of Ukraine. It's probably
               | location dependent. I'm in Ventura County.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Good to know! I'm sure it varies by location, and it's
               | also possible the quality that I'm getting at the no-name
               | station is not as good.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | > eat at the food court
           | 
           | That changed a couple years back.
           | 
           | https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Costco-food-court-
           | me...
        
             | walrus01 wrote:
             | Realistically if you want to eat at the food court just
             | walk backwards into the exit and be like "oh yeah I'm going
             | to the pharmacy", most states have a law not allowing
             | Costco to require membership for pharmacy, and the just go
             | buy your food from the automated kiosk.
        
               | m-ee wrote:
               | It's not new and that strategy doesn't always work. I
               | tried to get a hotdog in SF in like 2014 and they
               | wouldn't let me through. When I asked about purchasing
               | alcohol he said that was allowed but they would have an
               | employee escort me to the liquor and then checkout to
               | ensure I couldn't go to the food court.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | That seems like a dbag employee. Possible that sort of
               | person will make your time difficult regardless of the
               | official rules
        
               | inferiorhuman wrote:
               | I've used the ATM at that Costco and nobody followed me
               | or nagged me. But that location is right by a bunch of
               | good places to get food so I've never tried to push my
               | luck.
        
       | sntran wrote:
       | Couple counter points:
       | 
       | Appliances shipped from Costco.com are in their original
       | packaging. They usually come with damages. I have had a couple
       | items that I had to bring them back to the store to return.
       | 
       | Another thing is how they choose which items to sell at a
       | particular warehouse. I used to visit one to buy a Sony Bravia
       | 77" OLED and was told that the model was only sold at locations
       | with high-income neighborhood.
       | 
       | Other than that, they have a way to get my money. It seems like
       | we go there every week or so.
        
       | throwawayarnty wrote:
       | Amazing how much China has changed over the past 60 years. From
       | backwards and famined to a global super power.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | speed_spread wrote:
         | But are there Costcos in China?
         | 
         | Also, do people in China get out of the city to go camping for
         | the weekend?
         | 
         | These are honest questions I'd like to have answers for.
        
           | mchaver wrote:
           | > But are there Costcos in China?
           | 
           | Yes, I know there is one in Shanghai.
           | 
           | https://www.costco.com.cn
           | 
           | > Also, do people in China get out of the city to go camping
           | for the weekend?
           | 
           | I am not sure about camping, but glamping is popular with
           | young people.
           | 
           | https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/glamping-china-
           | trend-...
        
           | merlyn wrote:
           | Yes, Costcos, Sam's Clubs. Ikea. Carrefour. Walmart. Apple.
           | Oppo stores.
           | 
           | Probably not around at the time that the article's author's
           | parents emigrated.
           | 
           | There are people doing more of the outdoor thing in China
           | now. Probably none going about 20 years back. Last time I was
           | there, there were recreational bicyclists (ie. taking them
           | off the back of their car) in the cities, as opposed to my
           | first visits where many more bicycles for their comute than
           | cars.
        
             | Markoff wrote:
             | Their prices (Carrefour and Walmart) are not really
             | competetive though, they have (Carrefour) some special
             | stuff not carried in other shops if you wanna buy foreign
             | goods, but for regular grocery you are better off with
             | Wumart, BHG (and for small Chaoshifa) or others.
             | 
             | I was especially stunned with how bad was Chinese Macro,
             | you must buy in bulk, but you will get higher prices than
             | small Chinese shops, in Europe they pretend to be wholesale
             | where you msut buy in bulk, but at least their prices are
             | oftena bit lower, often can't really compete with
             | Kaufland/Lidl/Penny, but in China they didn't even try.
             | 
             | Anyway by the end of my 5+ year stay in China I was doing
             | already my groceries though the app, delivered to my 5th
             | floor apartment without elevator.
             | 
             | OPPO is Chinese brand, so dunno exactly how is it worth
             | mentioning they have stores in China.
        
           | markles wrote:
           | Most cities have plenty of hiking and camping groups you can
           | join. Hiking and other outdoor activities have grown
           | considerably in popularity in the last couple of decades.
           | 
           | Lots of stone path walkways which people will refer to as
           | hiking, but isn't what most in Europe or the US would
           | consider it to be. There are groups that build off old paths
           | that connect villages or which were used for hunting. Some
           | areas have really nice networks of trails, though, just not
           | to the extent you'd find elsewhere.
        
         | pirate787 wrote:
         | Really the progress started with Deng Xiaoping, so just in the
         | last 45 years. But China has 20% of all humanity, so really
         | just stepping back into its rightful place after the disaster
         | of Maoism.
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | I've always had a gut feeling that Costco's customers represent a
       | broader swath of socioeconomic diversity than most other stores.
       | Don't know how true that is and would love to learn if there's
       | real data behind it.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | The median Costco shopper makes over $125,000.
        
           | listenallyall wrote:
           | No, according to a dubious "research firm" that provides no
           | data, the "typical" Costco shopper (define typical however
           | you want) earns 125k. The same firm also states the typical
           | Wal-Mart shopper earns $80k, same as both Whole Foods and
           | Target. You can decide how close their numbers are to
           | reality.
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-walmart-shopper-
           | demo...
        
             | lallysingh wrote:
             | That's one faang employee and two broke people. Wal Mart
             | has stuff you can't get at WF or Target.
        
         | caymanjim wrote:
         | Minor anecdotal evidence, but I live in a small semi-
         | rural/semi-suburban town in NJ, and Costco appears to have a
         | full cross-section of people. It does seem slightly more
         | economically-diverse than the regular grocery and retail
         | stores, in that you'll see a lot more rich people (by virtue of
         | driving Porsches and Mercedes) at Costco than you will at
         | Walmart.
        
         | insightcheck wrote:
         | Business Insider hired an analytics firm named Numerator to
         | create a report that finds on the average Costco customer [0].
         | I couldn't find the original data or report in Business
         | Insider's summary, but from its article:
         | 
         | "Numerator found that Costco's typical shopper in the US is an
         | Asian American woman between 35 and 44 years old who is married
         | and living in a city in the Pacific Northwest. (Costco was
         | founded in Seattle and is based in Washington.) She typically
         | has a four-year degree or higher level of education and earns
         | more than $125,000 a year."
         | 
         | I'm not sure whether the income of the "typical shopper" was
         | defined based on a median or mode, so there could well be a
         | large variance of customers with a lower socioeconomic status.
         | A separate article by Investopedia [1] also asserts that Costco
         | mostly opens stores in affluent suburban areas, and originally
         | targeted college-educated and financially wealthier customers.
         | 
         | So, Costco's customers are likely skewed to have a higher
         | socioeconomic status, based on the location of most of its
         | stores in wealthier suburban areas and findings from an
         | analytics report (with some skepticism towards the article
         | about the report, as the raw data and methods weren't shared,
         | as far as I could see).
         | 
         | [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-costco-shopper-
         | demog...
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/061516/whats-...
        
           | TheRealNGenius wrote:
           | that doesn't make sense. It says that the "typical shopper"
           | is one very specific gender/age/income/racial category.
           | 
           | What the heck does that mean? Am I supposed to believe that
           | the most common category of people are that category, or that
           | those attributes are the more common ones? I'm positive I see
           | an almost even split of male/female when I go to Costco.
           | Otherwise, that wording is jacked by any metric.
        
             | lallysingh wrote:
             | Assume statistical mode for enums, mean for floats.
        
           | divbzero wrote:
           | I couldn't find the original data either. Numerator offers
           | snapshots of customer distribution [2] that go beyond just a
           | median or mode, but does not share it publicly for Costco.
           | 
           | [2]: https://www.numerator.com/snapshots
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | > A separate article by Investopedia [1] also asserts that
           | Costco mostly opens stores in affluent suburban areas, and
           | originally targeted college-educated and financially
           | wealthier customers.
           | 
           | This is obvious simply by searching for Costcos on a map. Or
           | the fact that any time your total is less than $100, the
           | cashier and the customer joke about how lucky and rare the
           | sub $100 receipt is.
        
       | rdl wrote:
       | My favorite Costco is in Iceland: a place where things are
       | normally absurdly expensive, and Costco Iceland is merely
       | somewhat expensive. Arrive, stock up on food for a week (to
       | supplement with restaurants, but some savings). Costco Japan
       | would be really fun to visit too (haven't yet).
       | 
       | Also Costco + Internet (Amazon, B+H, etc.) are essentially 99% of
       | my shopping here in Puerto Rico.
       | 
       | Visiting Costco, Walmart, etc. immediately after returning from
       | war zones with limited supplies is a pretty shocking experience;
       | I can only begin to imagine what it's like for someone new to the
       | country who is actually from such a place.
        
         | johnwalkr wrote:
         | Costco in Japan is great. Even without an American sized fridge
         | and freezer it is definitely worth shopping at. It's by far the
         | cheapest place to buy American snacks, bacon, good peanut
         | butter, tortillas, brown sandwich bread and kind of the only
         | place to buy bulk. It's an hour away from me and requires a car
         | rental but it's easily worth going once every 2-3 months.
        
         | lostmsu wrote:
         | How's the Internet in Puerto Rico?
        
       | Wistar wrote:
       | I really like that piece.
        
       | seanc wrote:
       | Somewhere I read a quote from some cranky business analyst
       | complaining about how the low prices, quality products and high
       | wages impact profits. "It's better to be a Costco customer or
       | Costco employee than it is to be a Costco shareholder."
       | 
       | To which I responded "That sounds like a well run company!"
        
         | beachtaxidriver wrote:
         | If you look at COST it was pretty darn good to be a shareholder
         | too.
         | 
         | Somehow they made that work out where all three of them won.
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | And a company that will stand the test of time, because as
         | Warren Buffet says, it's providing value.
        
       | hillsboroughman wrote:
       | In the last 20 years, I did several jobs. The jobs I was happiest
       | in were those where my boss was a loyal Costco shopper. I dont
       | know if the two are connected.
        
       | jamiek88 wrote:
       | Costco blew my tiny little mind when I was fresh off the boat
       | too!
        
       | kepler1 wrote:
       | Related to the story's underlying topic, as an immigrant I find
       | significant attitudinal/philosophical differences in how I regard
       | saving money and spending money versus, for example, my American
       | coworkers and friends, especially younger ones who grew up around
       | relatively well-off families. Maybe the affection for Costco
       | embodies that. I'm sure I sound like an old fart for saying this,
       | like "those younguns don't know the value of a dollar any more".
       | 
       | By comparison at least, they are much freer with their money and
       | don't have the same baggage about it. An example especially
       | apparent for me is their willingness to spend on clothing, where
       | I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe just not having been
       | brought up around parents who were ever dressed that nice, or
       | allowed me and siblings to be. Or for example, their lack of
       | concern about overpaying for small things, which yes in the
       | bigger picture, who cares if you're overcharged for a drink once
       | in a while?
       | 
       | I suppose it's because the information or concern about not
       | having money was already passed down or imposed on me as a lesson
       | early in life (whether intentionally or not). Sometimes I view it
       | as an advantage as I see that my friends (those spending freely)
       | will encounter those lessons when they get married, have kids,
       | etc. and need to save. On the other hand, I wonder if I'm just
       | handicapping myself with that baggage and not allowing myself to
       | enjoy the freedom that a good income now brings, and living too
       | much in the restraints of my family's past...
        
         | joveian wrote:
         | While not necessarily the particular examples you give, there
         | is a destructive side to the willingness to spend as well in
         | terms of environmental impact. Lots of people in the US end up
         | with basements or garages of stuff they don't use and can't
         | even remember what is there or find it if they were ever to
         | want to use it. I think there is a religion of wealth not just
         | among the super wealthy where people think the environmental
         | impact doesn't matter or if it does someone else will fix it or
         | if not then they deserve it anyway. Ethically there can also be
         | major issues, including with clothing, and the more likely to
         | be ethical stuff can be more expensive (but not that expensive,
         | the most expensive stuff is usually just expensive in order to
         | show off wealth). The freedom of wealth is the freedom to shit
         | on other people if you want to or just don't care enough to not
         | do so. I suggest continuing to be careful about what you buy
         | but with a wider ethical consideration rather that just looking
         | for the best price.
        
       | Pasorrijer wrote:
       | Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, while it doesn't
       | directly affect the experience, is how well Costco treats their
       | employees. Almost all of their policies are progressive and
       | employee first, and that's something I'm also willing to support.
       | 
       | https://www.huffpost.com/entry/costco-pay-benefits-glassdoor...
        
       | lbrito wrote:
       | Haven't read the piece yet, but I definitely will - for a long
       | time I would like to understand why people are so enamored with
       | Costco. I recently joined because they have some good food that
       | is hard or more expensive to find elsewhere, but that's about it.
       | To me it's just a store. Outside of the US/Canada I've never seen
       | people evangelize a store so much.
        
         | findjashua wrote:
         | 2 words: quality control
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | You are right that at the end of day it is just a store. I know
         | many people who keep renewing Costco membership every year but
         | goes like once or twice a year. I on the other end is in same
         | category that author describes. Even for gallon of milk I'd
         | prefer going Costco and if there is more than one item it is
         | not even a question.
         | 
         | To me most basic thing would be great quality at that price
         | level that I guess everyone else is also looking for. At deeper
         | level by reducing choice it sets a familiar pattern of food I
         | eat on daily/weekly/monthly basis. Or for clothes just like
         | people wear brands and proud to announce it. For me it is I do
         | not wear brands and similarly proud of the fact.
        
         | 14 wrote:
         | It you eat the food they offer you can definitely get it at a
         | better price. Furthermore Costco demands a higher quality for
         | certain products. I don't have the source on that but read
         | somewhere once that say the can of soup you get at a regular
         | grocery store then compare it to Costco they have better
         | ingredients things like higher protein for example. I also know
         | things like protein powder were the same price but much larger
         | at Costco. Meat is much better quality and cheaper. Their
         | return policy is hassle free. Probably a lot more I could say
         | about Costco.
        
         | shp0ngle wrote:
         | The piece is not really about costco though. I mean it is, but
         | not _really_.
        
           | bloppe wrote:
           | ya lol it feels like 90% of the people on HN go straight to
           | the comments without reading the pieces
        
         | sammalloy wrote:
         | > I would like to understand why people are so enamored with
         | Costco
         | 
         | I've been going to Costco since it was Price Club in the 1980s.
         | I can explain why people love it. There's an aura of mystery to
         | the shopping experience because of the philosophy behind the
         | layout. They basically want you to shop around the whole store
         | because nothing is ever in the same place and product longevity
         | beyond basic consumer staples is unheard of. In other words, it
         | is unlikely the special product you find one week will be there
         | the next. This kind of unpredictability goes against the grain
         | of the reliability built into the shopping experience, and it's
         | what I find so attractive about it. Not only will you be
         | exposed to something new and different, but you'll have to
         | settle for an entirely different product than the one you
         | planned on buying because of the surprise factor at work.
         | Obviously, this consumer approach won't work for everyone,
         | especially those who stubbornly buy the same thing every week
         | or month.
        
           | throwaway0a5e wrote:
           | Sounds like Ocean State Job Lot or Mardens but with a
           | membership fee to keep the wrong crowd out.
        
             | sammalloy wrote:
             | The more interesting thing is how they weed out their
             | vendors, not their members.
             | 
             | Edit: you're right, it sounds like they stole some of their
             | ideas from Marden's.
        
           | firebird84 wrote:
           | When I worked a summer at BJ's (a similar wholesale club) the
           | manager informed me that this was by design. I was asking why
           | we needed to move all the stuff, if we were discontinuing or
           | something. He said nope, we just have to do this every now
           | and then because it keeps people shopping longer. There may
           | be an added "experience" element to it as well, but this was
           | an eye opener to me as a teen.
        
         | grapeskin wrote:
         | I was a member for 2 years, although outside of the US.
         | 
         | The store is mostly US/UK/Australian imports of questionable
         | quality, prices far higher than local goods (which is to be
         | expected when shipped long distance for one specific chain),
         | and questionable desirability (e.g. sauces not used much in
         | local cuisine, of far lower quality than local brands, in
         | containers far larger while also more expensive per gram).
         | Products Americans would want from home are also almost non-
         | existent. So it caters to nobody.
         | 
         | I think it had a lot of novelty at first since it's a very
         | "American" thing and kind of a fun trip, but I'm not sure of
         | the longterm viability. There's only so much you can do with a
         | store that sells oversized budget-brand ketchup at luxury
         | prices and stale jars of nuts.
         | 
         | Never visited while I was living in the US, but I doubt it
         | could beat Winco. Bulk, low prices, often local, and no BS
         | membership fees.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | Winco is great, but it is not competing with Costco, which
           | has a reputation for selling curated products with somewhat
           | higher quality.
           | 
           | Winco is solid though, and living near both is extremely
           | convenient.
        
         | kvark wrote:
         | For me, it's a modern equivalent of the soviet stores. There is
         | no 10 kinds of everything, but the ones available are
         | guaranteed to be fairly good quality and at an affordable
         | price.
         | 
         | Speaking more modern, it saves the mental effort of researching
         | choices. Need something? Check Costco, buy if there, done.
         | 
         | Of course there are negatives associated with them, too.
        
           | el-salvador wrote:
           | PriceSmart, (Costco's Latin American cousin), does something
           | similar too.
           | 
           | They research/test the products before selling them so that
           | they comply with their quality standards. So once products
           | are on the shelves its likely that they are good.
           | 
           | This make buying decisions easier. Which is a much better
           | shopping experience than having to read a dozen product
           | reviews while shopping online.
        
           | mantas wrote:
           | > soviet stores
           | 
           | > but the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good
           | quality
           | 
           | Yeah, right... Nope.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | That's true for some categories of goods but not all. They
           | have way more than 10 kinds of wine.
        
           | f1refly wrote:
           | > soviet stores. There is no 10 kinds of everything, but the
           | ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality
           | 
           | According to people from the former soviet block I know, the
           | reason they got so good at fixing stuff is because the first
           | thing they did after buying an appliance from a store (after
           | it became available eventually) was fixing it because nothing
           | ever worked as expected. I guess "nothing" is an
           | overstatement but I still wouldn't use the soviet union as an
           | example for great product quality.
        
             | rtpg wrote:
             | I feel like that was generally a property of everything
             | everywhere though. I still remember sticking a fork into my
             | VCR (probably made in USA?) or basically every car having
             | something wrong with it.
             | 
             | Things have gotten more reliable across the board imo.
        
           | namdnay wrote:
           | I guess the european equivalent would be LIDL
        
             | p_l wrote:
             | Lidl, at least in most places, doesn't run bulk stores like
             | Costco apparently is.
             | 
             | There are some bulk stores with memberships, some of them
             | limited to B2B sales, some accepting normal people as
             | customers - places like MAKRO and Selgross - but they
             | obviously are mainly a warehouse supplier for shops and
             | companies.
             | 
             | I don't know how Lidl is in terms of selection in other
             | countries, but especially with smaller stores the joke is
             | that "every week something new" which refers more to
             | somewhat random selection, and they tend to have lesser
             | known brands (which, while not necessarily a bad thing,
             | isn't also a sign of quality, and sometimes you really like
             | the specific brand). Personally when I shopped more at Lidl
             | (had one opposite of office), I compared the selection to
             | "what recently fell of the truck and will stay till it's
             | all sold"
        
               | DocTomoe wrote:
               | It is always interesting to read how different such
               | brands are perceived in different countries. Over here in
               | Germany, Lidl is considered "the better discount store"
               | as compared to Aldi (especially Aldi Nord), and has made
               | a push to more high-level products (which often are
               | better than name-brand stuff that they also carry).
               | 
               | When I talk to British friends, the idea of shopping at a
               | Lidl seems to be sacrilegious to them. Still, when I went
               | into one somewhere in Yorkshire before the plague, it was
               | pretty much what I expected.
        
               | lowercased wrote:
               | We got a Lidl near us - one of the first when they were
               | planning their US East Coast invasion. Apparently,
               | they're scaling back new stores, and ours is one of a
               | handful of 'large' footprint stores, and almost
               | everything after that is (or will be) probably half the
               | size.
               | 
               | We love Lidl mostly because of the price. Almost
               | everything was/is around 20-30% less than the stores
               | around it. Much of this is from 'store brand' items, but
               | the price diff is lower even against other 'store brand'
               | pricing.
               | 
               | When they opened, they had a wider variety of items,
               | including a wide variety of daily baked breads. That got
               | scaled back a lot, as apparently there's not enough
               | support/demand in this area for fresh breads outside of
               | 'white'.
               | 
               | There's a weird circle of grocery stores that have sprung
               | up in my area. Within a 3 mile radius, there's Target,
               | Walmart, Lidl, Aldi, Wegmans, Food Lion, Harris Teeter,
               | Publix and Lowe's (2?). It seems excessive to me, but the
               | area is growing, and they likely wouldn't have invested
               | in this area without a strong expectation of not losing
               | money.
               | 
               | There's still a Lidl stigma around here. Many folks I
               | talk to think of it as some 'poor person' shop.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | > the ones available are guaranteed to be fairly good quality
           | and at an affordable price
           | 
           | I bought into the hype and got a Costco membership a few
           | years back. One of the first things I went looking for was
           | whole bean coffee (Peet's xmas roast). The local Costco had a
           | bunch of coffee from Starbucks and Peets (meh quality to
           | start) but only the painfully dark roasts and all of it was
           | ground. Pre-ground coffee in bulk has a pretty limited use
           | case (and relatively short shelf life).
           | 
           | Fast forward to last week and I went looking for a new fridge
           | at Costco dot com. They prominently featured LG (ugh) and
           | Samsung refrigerators. While some LG models seem to review
           | pretty well I've never seen anyone say anything positive
           | about Samsung, their service, or the serviceability of their
           | appliances. I'm in the middle of dealing with a defective LG
           | fridge and that's about the nicest thing I can say about LG's
           | warranty and customer support.
           | 
           | Costco may have a permissive return policy and decent
           | customer support but I would never blindly buy something
           | without doing a bit of research just because it's at Costco.
           | Especially with a big ticket item like a fridge I'd rather
           | use my Amex anyhow.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | > I've never seen anyone say anything positive about
             | Samsung, their service, or the serviceability of their
             | appliances
             | 
             | I have all Samsung appliances at my home. They are the best
             | appliances I have ever owned. I can't speak to their
             | service because I have never had a single issue with any of
             | them.
        
               | lowercased wrote:
               | > I have all Samsung appliances at my home. They are the
               | best appliances I have ever owned.
               | 
               | Congrats. I think you're in a minority. Our washing
               | machine 'fabric softener' compartment started rusting
               | less than a year after getting it. We had a _long_ time
               | and many back and forths trying to get them to
               | acknowledge the problem. Their  'fix' initially was
               | "don't use that". Finally - months later - they agreed to
               | have someone come fix it, but it was going to be hundreds
               | of dollars because we were "out of warranty". "But... we
               | reported this to you with months left in the warranty
               | period". "Well, tough luck" was basically the response.
               | 
               | My wife kept persisting - this dragged on for months -
               | and eventually got some service rep to 'cover' this and a
               | service guy came out. "Oh this is common - see this a lot
               | with Samsungs in the last few years".
               | 
               | Relatedly, we had a dryer guy come out to fix the Samsung
               | dryer. He indicated Samsung and LG were among the worst
               | consumer-level brands for home appliances, based on their
               | workload as service techs. But Samsung and LG have
               | gigantic foot prints in the major retail outlets, so
               | continue to get sold in to many households.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | I've heard enough stories from friends and family about
               | samsung fridges and washing machines dying shortly after
               | their warranty and Samsung wanting crazy money to fix
               | them. Also a friend who bought their top of the line
               | "frame" TV and returned it within a week because the TV
               | had stutter when watching live TV and there is an
               | 800-pages long forum thread about it on their forums,
               | with Samsung basically replying "we're aware of this
               | issue and we aren't planning on fixing it".
               | 
               | On the other hand I have their phone(S21) and I'm very
               | happy with it.
        
             | DocTomoe wrote:
             | > I've never seen anyone say anything positive about
             | Samsung, their service, or the serviceability of their
             | appliances.
             | 
             | I've never had problems with Samsung appliances. Can't say
             | the same for (supposedly high-quality) Bauknecht or Miele.
        
             | anonAndOn wrote:
             | Costco.com is where to look for coffee and other
             | foodstuffs. You may have to buy the coffee in 5 lb bags,
             | but the selection is superior and the quality is generally
             | very good.
        
             | iudqnolq wrote:
             | My experience is the big ticket items are all fine products
             | at normal prices, but there's no reason to pick Costco for
             | them. I suspect it's where they make a lot of their profit,
             | considering their groceries are famously low margin. I buy
             | groceries and gas exclusively there.
        
               | shaftway wrote:
               | I strongly suspect it's the extra services that third
               | parties sell through them. Like the vacation packages,
               | air conditioning installation, etc. We almost got a
               | Puronics filter through them, but stopped short when we
               | found out that it was $9000 at Costco, but $6000 through
               | an independent installer.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Costco's profit is all membership fees. Everything else
               | is (in aggregate) sold at cost. This is public
               | information in their 10-K filings.
               | 
               | For the hotel and travel stuff, they get a commission
               | like other travel agents/channels.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | The reason to pick Costco for appliances is because you
               | get a 4 year warranty if you use Costco credit card (in
               | the US).
        
               | mikebonnell wrote:
               | Almost all of their profit is from membership fees.
               | https://investor.costco.com/node/24021/html
               | 
               | Sales almost equal merchandise cost plus selling
               | expenses. Membership fees add $984 million on top of
               | that.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | Here in UK the #1 reason to get them from Costco is that
               | they give 5 years warranty on all electronics and home
               | appliances, way beyond what the manufacturer offers. I'd
               | happily buy a new TV or a fridge from them for that
               | reason alone.
        
           | badpun wrote:
           | > soviet stores. (...) but the ones available are guaranteed
           | to be fairly good quality and at an affordable price
           | 
           | Must be different soviets that I lived in. The quality was
           | often terrible (e.g. "chocolate" that did not contain cocoa
           | at all, ugly clothes and shoes that would break down quickly,
           | beer that tasted like piss etc.) and that is assuming the
           | goods were in the store at all. Basic western goods, such as
           | Levi jeans or can of Coca-Cola were celebrated as artifacts
           | of an alien, infinitely more advanced civilization.
        
             | p_l wrote:
             | At least with chocolate, during communist times in Poland
             | AFAIK if someone was packaged as "chocolate" it had to be
             | chocolate - it was "chocolate-like product" that you had to
             | be wary of which was closer to american "chocolate"[1]
             | 
             | [1] I jest, I jest, but what is legal to be in store-bought
             | chocolate in USA, based on things I actually ended up
             | getting while visiting, was literally one of the ways
             | communist poland cut chocolate to make "chocolate-like
             | product" :V
        
           | rexf wrote:
           | Yeah, Costco has OK selection and OK/good prices. The
           | downside for groceries is the bulk sizing can be much more
           | than you want to buy.
           | 
           | Their return policy is also very good. Obviously do _not_
           | abuse this (or you are being a jerk). This means you can buy
           | things without hesitation since you can easily return it
           | should you run into an issue later.
        
         | Suzuran wrote:
         | Costco is generally clean, Costco doesn't have the corporate
         | reputation for extreme exploitation of their workers that
         | Walmart does, Costco's store brand is actually decent, there
         | appears to be no overt cost-cutting in store operations, and
         | for me the big deal was that Costco was the only place around
         | here that attempted to actually _enforce_ mask mandates after
         | you were inside the store. I saw one lady getting escorted out
         | for taking her mask off and starting a fight when asked to put
         | it back on; She screamed  "I'LL NEVER SHOP HERE AGAIN!" and the
         | employee escorting her out said matter-of-factly "Yes, that's
         | what trespass means."
         | 
         | In short, they give the appearance of doing ask if the things a
         | business should be doing in line with the intent of the law, as
         | opposed to just doing the bare minimum to the letter of the
         | law, and doing what you are supposed to do is so rare as to be
         | considered exceptional.
        
           | dmos62 wrote:
           | > Costco is generally clean
           | 
           | That makes it sound like cleanliness is not the norm in
           | grocery stores in US.
        
             | convFixb wrote:
             | Thanks to our old friend Baumol [1], cleanliness is not the
             | norm in any typical grocery store in the 1st world.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol's_cost_disease
        
               | dmos62 wrote:
               | You're saying that people who work in grocery stores
               | don't care about their job performance, because their
               | level of pay is guaranteed by workers in other industries
               | being productive? That's a cynical thought.
               | 
               | By the way, where I'm from (EU), cleanliness is
               | definitely the norm for grocery stores.
        
               | harpersealtako wrote:
               | US grocery stores in general seem no less clean than
               | western European grocery stores from my limited
               | experience. I don't know what the parent poster is
               | talking about -- even Walmarts in the bad parts of town
               | seldom seem conspicuously "dirty".
        
               | mercutio2 wrote:
               | Come on. I've been to many, many small grocery stores in
               | Western Europe.
               | 
               | Some had obviously old/dirty fixtures, signage, and
               | floors, some had newer cleaner looking equipment. The
               | average in Europe was much, much "dirtier" than Americans
               | on average will put up with.
               | 
               | "Dirty" in this context means not-new-looking.
               | 
               | I'd much rather not pay for someone to replace things
               | that are perfectly functional.
               | 
               | But many consumers ( _especially_ Americans) prefer
               | extremely well lit, very new looking equipment.
               | 
               | So I think you may have this exactly wrong. Europe has
               | much dirtier stores, because it doesn't value cosmetic
               | polish as much as health and cost savings.
        
               | dmos62 wrote:
               | To be fair, different countries in Europe are culturally
               | different. And, to be even fairer, what we mean by
               | "dirty" is wildly personal, I think.
        
             | Spivak wrote:
             | That depends, are you the health inspector? But yeah,
             | unless you live in an area where the average home is 400k+
             | and the average car is a Mercedes your local grocery stores
             | will be "grimey". Not really dirty, but staffed by people
             | who (rightfully) aren't paid enough to care. By comparison
             | Costco is basically sterile.
        
           | the_doctah wrote:
           | I'm not sure we should be proud of businesses having to force
           | their hourly employees to act like bouncers for surly anti-
           | maskers.
        
         | slyall wrote:
         | New Zealand is getting our first store in a couple of months
         | and people are obsessed with it. Stories in the media nearly
         | every week. Long queues for membership.
         | 
         | A lot of this is because the local Supermarket Duopoly avoids
         | competing on price and makes great profits. People are looking
         | forward to cutting their costs and also a flow-on as the
         | supermarkets cut their prices a little to compete.
         | 
         | Similar to IKEA which is a year or so away. Easy to take for
         | granted when you have it but the alternative is paying a lot
         | more for similar to worse quality.
        
           | divbzero wrote:
           | It would be fascinating to be part of that team at Costco or
           | IKEA planning to open a new store in a new country. On top of
           | the challenges you can think of, there must be aspects of
           | running the business that you take for granted in your home
           | country and don't realize will be a challenge in the new
           | country.
        
             | DocTomoe wrote:
             | If you want to read an example of people failing at that
             | task, read up on Walmart trying to conquer Germany. [1]
             | 
             | [1] many, many articles, but https://www.theguardian.com/bu
             | siness/2006/jul/28/retail.mone... is as good as any
        
             | barry-cotter wrote:
             | > On top of the challenges you can think of, there must be
             | aspects of running the business that you take for granted
             | in your home country and don't realize will be a challenge
             | in the new country.
             | 
             | New Zealand has an educated, English speaking workforce,
             | uses the English common law and actually has rule of law.
             | They know how to do this. IKEA has stores in Vietnam, where
             | all of those are much less true. They're not going to learn
             | much about international expansion they don't know already.
             | This is very different from a Canadian company opening up
             | in the US, or a French one in Belgium. IKEA, and I presume
             | Costco know how to do this already.
        
             | pionar wrote:
             | You hire people from the new market who do know those
             | quirks. Or, you can be like McDonald's and most fast
             | food/QSR companies, and simply license your name to "master
             | franchisees" in those markets.
        
           | lordgrenville wrote:
           | I would guess that island conditions naturally lead to (at
           | least tacit) price collusion, such that the entry of a
           | multinational might not lead to prices going down. (In the
           | US, the classic case is _White vs. Packer_ , about gas prices
           | in Martha's Vineyard.) IKEA prices vary a lot between
           | countries. https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-
           | style/homed/latest/121925681/no...
        
           | surfmike wrote:
           | Costco entering Iceland also had a measurable effect on the
           | country's inflation rate.
           | 
           | https://www.icelandreview.com/news/food-prices-drop-
           | thanks-c...
        
         | freeqaz wrote:
         | The simplest answer to this is Kirkland Signature. It's a very
         | genius idea that Amazon is starting to copy now with
         | AmazonBasics, but Costco has been doing it for years.
         | 
         | This article explains it better than I can:
         | https://every.to/napkin-math/how-costco-convinces-brands-to-...
         | 
         | TL;DR: If you buy something like Grey Goose vodka, it's going
         | to be the same product as the Kirkland Signature version on the
         | shelf next to it. It is often literally from the same factory.
         | Costco AND Grey Goose make more money by being able to sell to
         | multiple market segments.
         | 
         | Read that article. It's genius and one of the many reasons I
         | love shop at Costco.
        
           | pirate787 wrote:
           | Store brands (private label brands owned by the retailer)
           | have been around forever and are not a Costco innovation.
           | Every US grocery store and most big box stores sell them.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | The source for this article's core claim is a pair of Reddit
           | comments, FYI.
        
         | gopalv wrote:
         | > I would like to understand why people are so enamored with
         | Costco
         | 
         | The first thing someone told me when I got to the US was to go
         | to Costco, pay the membership and get an AMEX charge card for
         | Costco.
         | 
         | If you are someone with zero credit history and want to buy
         | groceries without having cash on you all the time, then Costco
         | is a big part of the "welcome to America" package.
         | 
         | What Costco lacks in variety, it made up in quality and
         | quantity (no, that's not a choice). The food is good, most
         | things are sold at cost, gas is cheaper, diapers are cheaper
         | ... everything with a Kirkland label is middle-of-the-curve
         | good.
         | 
         | So Costco runs become a regular thing. Before you know it, it
         | is like church - go there, show your membership and eat the
         | wafers.
         | 
         | Not quite a religion, but something you still proselytize.
        
           | base698 wrote:
           | Costco only takes Visa.
        
             | unixhero wrote:
             | Wrong It takes American Express too.
        
               | mcronce wrote:
               | They used to be AmEx only. They're now Visa only.
        
               | unixhero wrote:
               | I paid with Amex at Costco yesterday.
        
             | jmacd wrote:
             | In Canada it is Mastercard only. Used to be Amex.
        
             | chiyc wrote:
             | I want to say that's a relatively recent change.
        
               | ridgered4 wrote:
               | Yes, sometime within the last 5 years they broke their
               | long partnership with AMEX. It seems to be Citibank now.
        
               | ianai wrote:
               | Have to wonder whether it'll change in another 5 years.
               | 
               | Making 4% back on gas is mega killer though.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | My understanding is that they changed because Citi
               | offered them a better deal.[0]
               | 
               | That said, I do kinda miss the Amex and its automatic
               | extended warranty.
               | 
               | [0]https://money.cnn.com/2016/03/31/pf/costco-visa-
               | american-exp...
        
             | subliminalpanda wrote:
             | In Canada they only accepted Mastercard for some time.
        
             | anotherman554 wrote:
             | Visa or Mastercard debit (not credit). They used to be
             | American Express exclusive.
        
         | bigtones wrote:
         | Australians have had Costco for 2 years and they absolutely
         | love it. Very popular.
        
         | eddieroger wrote:
         | Plenty of good points made already - gas is cheap, products are
         | good - but what keeps me a Costco shopper is the consistent and
         | frequent stories about them being a genuinely good employer.
         | Maybe because I've spent my career in retail IT, but I hear all
         | the time about how good of a place Costco is to work. Staff
         | turnover is low, wages are good, and they close for most
         | holidays. I may not need 48 AA batteries often, but when I do,
         | I'd rather buy them at Costco.
        
           | lbrito wrote:
           | I was totally unaware of that. Thank you for pointing it out.
           | 
           | I assumed Costco had shitty employee treatment like other
           | large chains. Its sad that this has become the default we
           | have come to expect from stores and not even think about it.
        
       | ernestns wrote:
       | In some areas where it can be costly to import goods, like
       | Hawaii, Costco tends to be one of few reliable stores to find
       | products at relatively reduced prices. With this type of
       | reputation, it's understandable why their following is loyal and
       | enthusiastic.
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | as usual most people react to the headline without reading the
       | article :)
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | I am amused by how clear it is to spot those that didn't even
         | bother to open the link. All of them, no exceptions, could be
         | summarized as "I am completely ignorant of what's actually
         | being talked about and I am not really inclined to dig deeper
         | into it. Anyway, let me interject with my worthless opinion and
         | find a way to make this about _me_. "
         | 
         | But then again, perhaps this could be a meta-commentary about
         | how American hyper-individualism makes everyone's worldview so
         | small that they can not see anything but themselves, and _yet_
         | this somehow  "works"?
        
           | skinnymuch wrote:
           | What's wrong with someone coming to HN for the comments? The
           | headline allows for commenting about that subject.
           | 
           | For all you or I know, this story has most of its upvotes by
           | people who want to talk about or read comments about Costco,
           | not the story of the article.
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | > What's wrong with someone coming to HN for the comments?
             | 
             | I don't mind reading the comments without reading the
             | story. I mind people _writing_ comments without reading the
             | story.
             | 
             | > most (...) want to talk about (...) Costco, not the story
             | of the article.
             | 
             | And that is _incredibly_ shallow. If I wanted to read
             | senseless comments based on the title of an piece, I 'd
             | just prompt GPT-3 for random wikipedia entries.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | GPT-3 comments of any kind would certainly be incredibly
               | shallow. Comments from actual grown people are different,
               | even if it's just based off domain + headline + a
               | possible skim.
               | 
               | Edit: I'm not sure senseless comments even correlate more
               | with not reading an article.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | Are you taking literally something that I wrote just for
               | rhetorical effect?
               | 
               | Let me try in another way: I don't think that wading
               | through tens of comments saying "I like/love/dislike
               | Costco" or "I prefer Wegmans/Kirkland/whatever" is the
               | type of thing that hits the mark for being a place that
               | "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity".
               | 
               | This would be for boring conversation already if the
               | topic at hand was a discussion about retail stores, but
               | it's made even worse because the post itself has so many
               | more interesting things to be talked about, that engaging
               | in this type of shallow talk becomes a nuisance to the
               | ones that actually made just a bit of effort to read the
               | piece and are ready for a more interesting conversation.
        
       | ComputerCat wrote:
       | Costco stresses me out! It's always so crowded, they move stock
       | around so I can never find anything and the lines to check out
       | are huge! BUT I do love how wide the aisles are.
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | Costco is amazing.
        
       | wude935 wrote:
       | As a child of AAPI immigrants, this piece really hit home,
       | especially when the author mentioned how the struggles of her
       | parent's generation impacted the way she was raised.
        
       | thethought wrote:
       | Enjoyed the post.
       | 
       | I shop at Costco for
       | 
       | - wine, single malt, brandy, cheese, and bread
       | 
       | - sea food, mutton, sardines, tuna, canned stuff, tomato and
       | citrus fruits
       | 
       | - dog food and bird feed
       | 
       | And of course their food court pizza + hot dogs
       | 
       | Great place.
        
       | mongol wrote:
       | Costco will open in Sweden soon. On the opposite part of
       | Stockholm from where I live, so I don't think it will be useful
       | for me. I don't know much about it but I am excited to see what
       | it will bring, and if it will affect the general grocery market
       | around here.
        
         | unicornmama wrote:
         | Hmmmm I wonder if they will try the bulk model. Americans have
         | very large fridges and grocery shop once a week. Grocery stores
         | are often a 20-30 minute drive away. In my European country
         | people have small fridges and may buy groceries several times
         | per week. Grocery stores are a 5-10 minutes away.
        
           | mongol wrote:
           | People that live in houses here usually have one fridge and
           | one freezer, about 180 cm or so tall. In apartments, usually
           | less.
        
         | CorvusCrypto wrote:
         | The thing that will be interesting to see as well is how they
         | approach a market where delivery has been increasingly
         | important over bulk availability. Thinking about prices of
         | services like MatHem and picsmart etc and if they can shake it
         | up
        
         | ArtemZ wrote:
         | Stockholm is a horrible place to live long term. You are
         | basically banned from owning a car, but there are no convenient
         | connections to huge shopping centers like Kungens Kurva (and
         | stores likes IKEA doesn't offer delivery for most items!) and
         | huge retail/warehouse stores like Biltema.
        
           | CorvusCrypto wrote:
           | I am curious if your perspective comes from someone that is
           | swedish or not. The general consensus locally is the opposite
           | sentiment ime and ofc you can easily rent cars for the day or
           | a small trailer for very cheap. That coupled with the fact to
           | for example Kungens Kurva it is somewhere you can get to
           | within an hour from within even the city center is quite nice
           | and the bus stop is literally next to the IKEA (ofc you go to
           | Barkarby if more north and again the station for the bus is
           | right next to center). The delivery is interesting that you
           | note considering we have always been able to get things
           | delivered to our apartment though maybe it depends where you
           | live...
        
             | ArtemZ wrote:
             | Curious if being swedish national has to do with
             | perspectives. From what I heard, perspectives of swedish
             | nationals usually involves leaving Sweden.
             | 
             | I'm living on Kungsholmen for several years already if that
             | matters.
             | 
             | Getting to Kungens Kurva from Thorildsplan involves one
             | change and realistically takes a bit more than an hour to
             | get there. Of course, you can't bring a huge box with your
             | new sofa to a bus or metro and Ikea won't deliver bigger
             | items too, so you have to deal with either renting a car or
             | paying insane prices for delivery. Same goes for bringing
             | larger items to manned garbage collection stations.
             | 
             | I don't rent a car because I feel insecure about driving
             | someone's else car after many years without driving
             | experience.
        
           | mongol wrote:
           | Beg to disagree. You are not banned from owning a car.
        
             | ArtemZ wrote:
             | There are virtually no free parking places unless you own a
             | house in Stockholm. You can't park your car long term on
             | the street near your apartments block because there is
             | always a day in a week during which parking is forbidden,
             | so you have to move the car at least once a week. If you
             | get sick and end up in a hospital for more than a week or
             | want to go to a long term vacation you will face HUGE
             | penalties and likely outstanding towing and penalty parking
             | fees.
             | 
             | This makes car ownership a constant headache, I don't want
             | to deal with this.
        
               | mongol wrote:
               | Too bad for you but that is far from being banned.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | That's how it is or was in NYC. I never saw it or heard
               | about is being a huge deal. Just something you lived
               | with.
        
         | klyrs wrote:
         | I love Costco for many of the reasons people are citing here,
         | but I didn't have a membership until very recently because the
         | store is a bit useless if you don't have a car and a pantry. I
         | really wonder how well they'll do in dense European cities
         | where those aren't the norm.
        
           | mongol wrote:
           | The store will be in Arninge. This is quite a bit from city
           | center. Many of the richest neighbourhoods are nearby.
        
       | dont__panic wrote:
       | A lot of people I know in the tech space seem to love Costco.
       | I've been. It's fine -- compared to a lot of other dingy, sad,
       | depressing grocery stores, it is absolute MILES better. So I
       | understand the fondness.
       | 
       | But for me, it can never compare to Wegmans. At Wegmans, the
       | store brand is always a sensible default purchase in a category,
       | and often the best option in a category. The employees all seem
       | happy because Wegmans has been one of the best blue collar
       | employers in the country for a couple of decades now. The hot
       | bar, burger shop, and sub shop are all fantastic: relatively
       | cheap, and often better than any fast/casual alternatives in the
       | area. They have a great beer selection, if you live in a state
       | that allows beer sales in grocery stores.
       | 
       | Caveat: if you've only ever visited the Brooklyn Wegmans, or
       | honestly any Wegmans outside of the core central-western NY zone,
       | you're missing out on the best qualities of Wegmans. For whatever
       | reason, the stores they've started in new regions in the past few
       | years just don't capture the same Wegmans spirit. The creme de la
       | creme Platonic form Wegmans will forever be Rochester's Pittsford
       | Plaza location. If you're ever in Rochester, it's worth the
       | visit.
        
         | stuff4ben wrote:
         | Wegmans is just another overpriced grocery store with a huge
         | wine selection going for it. Literally here in NC I'd rather go
         | to Harris Teeter or Whole Foods than Wegmans. Some HT's have a
         | bar to hang out at which I occasionally do before I do my
         | shopping. I just don't see the appeal of Wegmans except the
         | transplant northerners who are reminiscencing.
        
         | ecopoesis wrote:
         | Wegmans has recently come to New England. They are generally
         | much nicer, cleaner, and organized then our big local chain,
         | Stop & Shop.
         | 
         | However Wegmans has a weird inventory. Many things you could
         | find in any New England grocery store like steak tips, salt-top
         | rolls, or brown bread are simply missing.
         | 
         | It wasn't until I was perusing Wegmans' extensive cured meat
         | department that I realized I was thinking of Wegmans the wrong
         | way: it's not a grocery store, it's an ethnic food store, like
         | a Super 88. But instead of being Chinese, Wegmans is a midwest
         | ethnic food store.
        
         | rockostrich wrote:
         | Everything you said about Wegmans is true of Costco. Kirkland
         | brand is usually the best option if they make it and Costco is
         | known for their high starting wages, benefits, and treating
         | their employees well. Their hot dog (1/4 lb all-beef) + drink
         | deal has stayed at $1.50 for decades and is legitimately a
         | solid lunch. Their beer selection is good (at least in NY)
         | although I would recommend just going to a local brewery to buy
         | beer in pretty much any state.
        
       | KillerRAK wrote:
       | Costco is the best!
       | 
       | In addition to having a great curated product selection that one
       | can trust, they appear to treat their employees well as they
       | always have a great attitude and top-notch customer service.
        
       | notkurt wrote:
       | Did anyone else read Costco as Contoso first? Or am I the only
       | one holding out for a love song dedicated to Contoso
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | Apparently Microsoft keeps the domain for contoso.net and
         | contoso.com registered and its mx receives a vast quantity of
         | mail from misconfigured things out in the wild.
        
         | vxNsr wrote:
         | You've spent too much time reading Microsoft documentation
        
       | tomc1985 wrote:
        
       | sexy_seedbox wrote:
       | I've never been in a Costco in my life but have eaten so much
       | Kirkland products.
        
       | bobsmooth wrote:
       | I think one of the things in becoming an adult is understanding
       | the trauma of your parents. This was a nice article.
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | Nice isn't the word I'm reaching for. Very well written, hard
         | to deny, quite angry. The one thing it isn't is a love song.
         | 
         | Great writing. Good read.
        
         | jiscariot wrote:
         | I enjoyed this piece immensely. Might be a "missing the forest
         | for the trees" thing, but it was odd needing to scroll so far
         | down for a comment that grok'd the theme of the article,
         | instead of chiming in on discounted gas and Kirkland vodka.
        
       | edmcnulty101 wrote:
       | As a native born and poor American without any parents I feel the
       | same way going to Costco. Its miraculous.
       | 
       | After being homeless a few times as a native born American I
       | still feel like showers are the ultimate luxury.
       | 
       | I'm always happy to see immigrants with jobs in America and
       | Europe but I can't help but wonder what can we do to make other
       | countries as desirable as America?
       | 
       | Theres billions of people. Why aren't their countries desirable
       | as well?
       | 
       | Why is North America and Europe the main destination for the
       | entire world to wish to immigrate to?
       | 
       | Why doesn't almost any country in Africa South and Central
       | America, Asia, and India continents have immigration problems and
       | what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want to be
       | in their homes?
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | Because they are higher trust societies with less low level
         | corruption, allowing one to have more peace of mind in day to
         | day life.
         | 
         | Simply going out in a vehicle is magnitudes riskier in the
         | country my parents come from. My whole extended family can
         | afford maids, cooks, and drivers, yet they all moved because
         | they wanted a lower volatility life for their children, even if
         | it meant doing your own laundry, cleaning, cooking, and
         | driving.
        
           | formerkrogemp wrote:
           | > Because they are higher trust societies with less low level
           | corruption, allowing one to have more peace of mind in day to
           | day life.
           | 
           | Certainly this is a factor, but let's not forget the decades
           | of destabilizing influence, coups, assassinations, wars,
           | sanctions, and foreign policy promulgated by the US to keep
           | some countries poor to maintain US interests.
        
             | edmcnulty101 wrote:
             | I didn't see where the US interfered with China or India's
             | elections. I didn't see where the US interfered with
             | Mexico's elections.
             | 
             | Those are a huge portion of the immigrants to the U.S if
             | not the majority.
        
           | elbigbad wrote:
           | Can you say more? My spouses family was same, I go visit them
           | in their country and they have lavish wealth (comparatively
           | to others in the country) and maids and cooks and such. But
           | they moved to developed nations like AUS, US, and UK.
        
             | dominotw wrote:
             | better air quality.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Less worry about needing to bribe, especially for everyday
             | stuff. Less worry about getting shaken down by cops. Stable
             | governments with government insured bank accounts and money
             | that loses purchasing power at a much slower rate. Ability
             | (and threat) of the court system to potentially right a
             | wrong.
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | > _Because they are higher trust societies with less low
           | level corruption_
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
           | 
           | (Also, if you are comparing places, don't forget to also
           | consult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)
        
             | skinnymuch wrote:
             | These sort of things should have more transparent and
             | correct naming. Corruption is high as can be in the west
             | too. It's just mostly lobbying so the average person
             | doesn't have safety concerns. Something like stability,
             | comfort, and safety concerns makes much more sense. Or as
             | quoted, less low level corruption works too.
             | 
             | The Democracy Index being done by The Economist and being
             | used as a respectable index to look at is pretty funny, but
             | in line with the status quo.
             | 
             | How many low end countries in these indexes have been used
             | and abused by the western countries liberal/conservative
             | political regimes The Economist, its ownership, and many of
             | its readers love? Sadly, dozens upon dozens upon dozens.
        
           | edmcnulty101 wrote:
           | What can we do to make India, Africa, Asia, and South/Central
           | America filled with high trust societies like Europe, North
           | America, and Australia?
           | 
           | And keep these current high trust societies trust from
           | continuing to be eroded? On the front page of HN at the same
           | time this article is.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050417
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | The simplest answer is that good, capable people need to
             | participate in the civic process. Not just voting every
             | year. Running for office, campaigning, donating, knocking
             | on doors, participating and starting civic organizations,
             | having children, raising those children with the proper
             | values.
             | 
             | Unfortunately, a lot of that can be undone by things like
             | lack of resources, which means things like securing your
             | own or your tribe's future is more important than advancing
             | everyone's.
             | 
             | It is possible that those in developed, stable countries
             | are simply lucky enough to be at the right place at the
             | right time. As boundary conditions and parameters change,
             | the situation can evolve or devolve with little control.
        
               | edmcnulty101 wrote:
               | The countries in Europe, North America, and Australia
               | were all in the right place at the right time.
               | 
               | While the countries in Africa, Indian, Asia, and South
               | America weren't.
               | 
               | That's one possible explanation.
        
           | wyldfire wrote:
           | > higher trust societies with less low level corruption
           | 
           | Without a doubt this seems like a big/major factor. But we
           | have corruption in the US. Do we have less corruption because
           | of enforcement of anti-corruption laws? Or do we have those
           | laws and an expectation that they're enforced because of some
           | other factors? Not rhetorical, I just don't know. Casually it
           | seems like many European countries have the same or greater
           | expectations and similar prosperity. When I read stories
           | about Russia and the former Soviet republics it makes me
           | think that there's so much mistrust and hopelessness that a
           | corrupt government is taken for granted.
           | 
           | I have no idea whether or not the US is exceptional but if it
           | is I wouldn't jump to describe it as virtuous. But I do wish
           | I could understand what policies we could pursue that might
           | make other societies similarly high trust.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | > Do we have less corruption because of enforcement of
             | anti-corruption laws? Or do we have those laws and an
             | expectation that they're enforced because of some other
             | factors?
             | 
             | Neither answer is complete. Laws and enforcement can only
             | go so far. It is not feasible to police every single
             | interaction between people.
             | 
             | My amateur hypothesis would be a combination of a wealth of
             | resources, growth outlook, shared struggles, traditions and
             | cultural outlooks that provide utility and propagate
             | downstream, etc. Probably impossible to intentionally
             | recreate. And of course, very possible to lose.
             | 
             | If everyone in society decides they want to screw each
             | other, then no amount of laws will help. Unfortunately, in
             | many societies, the game is very adversarial with dire
             | consequences, and you have to play that way.
             | 
             | On the other hand, a society where people are mostly out to
             | engage in good faith transactions can greatly benefit from
             | reduced friction, enabling more transactions and each actor
             | wasting less energy in preventing themselves from being
             | screwed.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | > Do we have less corruption because of enforcement of
             | anti-corruption laws? Or do we have those laws and an
             | expectation that they're enforced because of some other
             | factors?
             | 
             | I think there's an expectation that at least egregious
             | corruption will be enforced against; typically in a court
             | of law, but if not, in the court of public opinion. But
             | also, petty bribes are offensive to be offered or demanded.
             | There's a sense that bribing your way out of a minor
             | offense is a more serious crime than whatever the offense
             | was.
             | 
             | There's still higher level corruption, regulatory capture
             | and all that, and other cases of interested parties making
             | decisions with conflicts of interest. Those are trickier
             | than bribes.
        
         | pm90 wrote:
         | > Theres billions of people. Why aren't their countries
         | desirable as well?
         | 
         | Because whenever they have political systems that promote
         | stability or justice, those leaders are overthrown in favor of
         | those who will obey diktaks of the IMF/World Bank/WTO which
         | generally promote privatization and wealth concentration.
         | 
         | So other countries are desirable but have low social/economic
         | mobility.
        
           | foogazi wrote:
           | > Because whenever they have political systems that promote
           | stability or justice, those leaders are overthrown in favor
           | of those who will obey diktaks of the IMF/World Bank/WTO
           | 
           | simplistic reasoning, but IMF was funded in 1945 - what's
           | your explanation for the previous 20 centuries?
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | You may want to look up the history of European
             | colonization of most of the world.
        
           | Panzer04 wrote:
           | By and large, the problem is unfortunately the reverse.
           | 
           | If you have resources, your government ends up either an
           | corrupt, nepotistic authoritarian hellhole or a corrupt,
           | nepotistic socialist paradise (until the
           | oil/gold/diamonds/gas run out, at which point it becomes a
           | corrupt, nepotistic authoritarian hellhole)
           | 
           | Most countries have the problem of corrupt, nepotistic
           | governments that look after the insiders at the expense of
           | the rest of the population - subsidies for their mates,
           | tariffs on overseas imports the help your friend but screw an
           | industry, etc. The simplest way of avoiding the most
           | destructive consequences of bad governance is often to just
           | remove the government from the equation.
        
             | usrn wrote:
             | That didn't seem to happen in the Nordic countries.
        
               | jahewson wrote:
               | They had strong governments long before they discovered
               | their natural resource (oil).
        
         | lbrito wrote:
        
         | throwamon wrote:
         | > Why aren't their countries desirable as well?
         | 
         | Yup, that would be pretty nice. If only America would let them.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in...
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
        
           | TulliusCicero wrote:
           | > Yup, that would be pretty nice. If only America would let
           | them.
           | 
           | And yet, if you ask people actually from those countries,
           | rarely will they pin Uncle Sam as the primary reason they're
           | still not well developed.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | I just had my bike stolen from me in broad daylight. I said
           | to myself "this is the kind of thing that happens in Brazil,
           | not here".
        
             | mise_en_place wrote:
             | Sorry to hear that. Costco has a nice selection of bikes
             | for you to choose from.
        
           | edmcnulty101 wrote:
           | I didn't see where the US interfered with China or India's
           | elections.
           | 
           | I didn't see where the US interfered with Mexico's elections.
           | 
           | Those are a huge portion of the immigrants to the U.S if not
           | the majority.
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | > Why aren't their countries desirable as well?
         | 
         | See e.g. _National IQ and Economic Development: A Study of
         | Eighty-One Nations_ , by Lynn and Vanhanen.
         | 
         | There is a superlinear relationship between average IQ and
         | GDPPC.
         | 
         | Research precludes a predominant causal relationship from GDPPC
         | _to_ IQ (e.g. via Flynn effect); all that is left is that
         | population intelligence causally precedes GDPPC.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | > Why doesn't almost any country in Africa South and Central
         | America, Asia, and India continents have immigration problems
         | and what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want
         | to be in their homes?
         | 
         | Some countries do have immigration problems and emmigration
         | problems. If they're more desirable than nearby countries, but
         | not nearly as desirable as US/EU, then they'll pull in their
         | neighbors, potentially too much at times, but still have those
         | with resources leaving when they can.
         | 
         | IMHO, things people are looking for are physical safety,
         | political stability, economic stability and opportunity, legal
         | stability (rule of law, predictable courts, timely access to
         | courts, reasonable law enforcement).
         | 
         | The top reasons people I hear people say they come to the US
         | are because it's unsafe for them where they live, or to have
         | the opportunity to make more money.
        
         | Panzer04 wrote:
         | Mostly less stable governance, often with less protection of
         | private rights (though obviously most of these countries are
         | just poorer as well).
         | 
         | If you have no assets, it's also far easier to make money in a
         | rich country and move back rich, rather than the reverse.
        
         | akomtu wrote:
         | Here is an unscientific explanation. NA and EU are populated by
         | older souls: some of them see the value of giving, while
         | others, who've chosen the wrong path, are adepts at scheming;
         | but both are similar in their maturity. The less mature souls
         | are still busy with mastering their emotions and their nations
         | are too chaotic for this reason: they either fall apart without
         | a leader, or when a mature leader presents itself, they have to
         | be ruled by an iron fist (China, India). Eventually the focus
         | will shift to another place on Earth: the most advanced will
         | move on there and America will join the long list of empires
         | that were once great, but that event is still a thousand years
         | away.
        
         | prostoalex wrote:
         | > what can we all do to make it desirable for people to want to
         | be in their homes?
         | 
         | Great book on the subject is
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail It explores
         | precisely this phenomenon - why certain places that have
         | geographic proximity (Dominican Republic and Haiti, Nogales AZ
         | and Nogales Sonora) drifted so far away from one another
         | economically, why some places with vast natural resources
         | (Nigeria) are undesirable while some other countries with
         | limited natural resources (Japan, Singapore) are economic
         | successes.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | My great grandfather moved to a different part of Asia and never
       | went back. My grandfather moved elsewhere and never went back. My
       | mother moved to another continent and then later, with my father,
       | to a third, where I partially grew up. And I moved to yet another
       | continent (with another emigree), speaking a language that, like
       | my mother, I had learned after growing up.
       | 
       | Yet today I spoke English with a stranger, a woman born to Indian
       | immigrants and she spoke with the same hand gestures I do.
        
         | permo-w wrote:
         | what does this have to do with Costco?
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Thanks for asking if it wasn't clear.
           | 
           | The article used Costco as a vehicle for exploring the
           | experience, and yet so some degree trauma, of moving away
           | from your birthplace. I read it through the lens of a common
           | belief that Asian families in particular are very close and
           | don't handle migration well.
           | 
           | I mentioned my story because it's a contradictory example,
           | but also because I believe that the belief that somehow
           | "Asians" can't handle family separation is not correct -- I
           | believe all people have roughly the same percentage of "gotta
           | stay here" and "gotta go somewhere else" -- it's just human
           | nature.
           | 
           | The last part of my story also relates to the Costco article:
           | despite a lot of time there I never lived in India, nor,
           | thanks to the laws and attitudes of where I was born did I
           | speak much of any Asian languages with my mother yet decades
           | later I, and some American woman of Indian decent whom I'd
           | never met before, used the same body language and gestures
           | while speaking. Where did that come from?
        
             | permo-w wrote:
             | thank you for the detailed explanation :)
        
         | godelmachine wrote:
         | Did you ask her out for a coffee?
        
         | smugma wrote:
         | Sounds like the beginning of a true love story.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | deweywsu wrote:
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-11 23:02 UTC)