[HN Gopher] Lichess: The free and open source chess server
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       Lichess: The free and open source chess server
        
       Author : perihelions
       Score  : 418 points
       Date   : 2022-07-10 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | elliotpage wrote:
       | I use the android LiChess app to play my dad, works wonderfully.
        
       | triyambakam wrote:
       | This is synchronistic. Just a few days ago I started playing on
       | Lichess after I remembered hearing about it here on HN. Actually
       | I haven't played many games there, my favorite thing as someone
       | actively studying to get better is watching live games on
       | Lichess. Its better than Youtube.
        
         | Vvector wrote:
         | Signed up in 2017, and have over 5000 games. It's a great site,
         | all free.
        
         | teucris wrote:
         | My son and nephew are playing lichess right now. It's been an
         | incredible summer activity for them!
        
       | cdelsolar wrote:
       | This site is one of the best things I've seen on the internet. It
       | inspired me to make a similar site for crossword board games
       | (think Scrabble, Words With Friends, etc). See https://woogles.io
       | - also AGPL. The backend is Go-based, and the site has around
       | 6500 MAU (we're about to hit 2M total games). We just released a
       | puzzle mode that is pretty popular and is already making people
       | improve - some of us anecdotally report better word-finding in
       | live tournaments :)
        
         | mlinksva wrote:
         | It wasn't obvious to me (though I may have blundered to
         | see/search) from the site where the code is, so to save others
         | the search it seems to be at
         | https://github.com/domino14/liwords ... the repo name
         | underlines the source of inspiration I guess!
        
       | asah wrote:
       | want to sharpen tactical skills and replace wordle at the same
       | time?
       | 
       | https://lichess.org/training/mix
       | 
       | I watch my score float up into the 2000s, get distracted/tired,
       | then float back down...
        
         | hiptobecubic wrote:
         | I do the same, although haven't broken 1800 yet...
        
           | asah wrote:
           | Try this: look for pieces that are defended by a single
           | piece, and see if you can force that other piece away. Look
           | for undefended pieces and ways to attack and capture them by
           | attacking/threatening something else - a classic are two
           | undefended projects that one piece can attack (fork).
           | 
           | Also check for "mating nets" where you can get a checkmate or
           | threaten a mate. Often that can force a sacrifice.
           | 
           | Lastly, look for pawn promotions - they can be tricky puzzles
           | but also occur in real matches.
           | 
           | Good luck!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | benreesman wrote:
       | This is kind of a side-note, but any time chess comes up on here
       | I smile at the resurgence in interest via Twitch/Blitz. I'm a
       | miserable chess player but I fucking love watching it.
       | 
       | Carlson playing the Botez sisters in Blitz may be a publicity
       | stunt, but the best chess player in the world is also model-
       | photogenic and surrounded by serious fucking players who also
       | photograph well?
       | 
       | Good for the game.
        
         | CSMastermind wrote:
         | Today there's a really interesting tournament going on between
         | NFL players on the chess.com twitch channel:
         | https://www.twitch.tv/chess
         | 
         | People like Larry Fitzgerald, Will Davis, and Amari Cooper.
        
       | platz wrote:
       | If chess interests you but are looking for a change, try learning
       | to play go/baduk online at https://online-go.com/
       | 
       | - how to play go (beginners)
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTWujSwL2bQ&list=PLW5_cMTm0w...
       | 
       | - basic openings/joseki
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW5_cMTm0wvZOTchMWZag...
       | 
       | - joseki made popular by AlphaGo/AIs (intermediate)
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW5_cMTm0wvZU5pQhmQFw...
       | 
       | [Michael Redmond's Go TV]
        
       | StanislavPetrov wrote:
       | Just like to point out that FICS has been going strong for over
       | 20 years!
       | 
       | https://www.freechess.org/
        
       | jsf01 wrote:
       | Yes! The front-end code for Lichess is what got me to learn
       | Mithril years ago. Really clean code for such a complex
       | application. Here's a great example:
       | 
       | https://github.com/lichess-org/lichobile/blob/master/src/ui/...
        
         | ajkjk wrote:
         | It's decent, but can be cleaner! Better classnames, usage of
         | the classnames library, and type-only imports, off the top of
         | my head.
        
       | searchableguy wrote:
       | Lichess is amazing given how little they receive in funding. The
       | interface is miles ahead of commercial competitors.
       | 
       | They also handle guest plays much better. I've faced less
       | cheating bots and no annoying pop ups on lichess when playing as
       | a guest compared to chess.com
       | 
       | Can anyone point me to how they handle cheating detection? I
       | would love a high level overview of how it works especially when
       | you have no data on the player.
       | 
       | fun nugget: HN users hosted tournaments on lichess at the start
       | of the pandemic [0]
       | 
       | 0] https://lichess.org/team/hacker-news
        
         | cjbprime wrote:
         | I imagine (without research) that it's just "what percentage of
         | your moves are the same as top computer moves", with a
         | threshold.
        
         | mNovak wrote:
         | Not sure about lichess specifically, but I know many game
         | servers are a bit cagey about their cheat detection systems,
         | since they don't want to give the cheaters any hints.
         | 
         | But as a broad concept, one technique is to compare moves
         | against bot suggested moves. i.e. if a high % of your moves are
         | those that a strong AI would make, something is fishy.
        
         | myle wrote:
         | It is open source also the neural network that they use for
         | that. It is called Irwin and you can find it on GitHub.
        
         | bkishan wrote:
         | > Can anyone point me to how they handle cheating detection?
         | 
         | You can listen to Thibault talk about here [0]
         | 
         | 0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZgyVadkgmI
        
         | sgjohnson wrote:
         | > The interface is miles ahead of commercial competitors.
         | 
         | I much prefer the chess.com UI
        
           | sib301 wrote:
           | Same. I love lichess and I'm so happy it exists, but I prefer
           | the chess.com interface for playing, and analyzing games.
           | 
           | Probably because I started there
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
        
             | matsemann wrote:
             | "Those disagreeing with me are wrong". Seriously?
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Not what I said at all. There's always comments agreeing
               | with me and I never see an elaboration by the lichess
               | hoards who dominate every thread involving it
        
         | edgyquant wrote:
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | EMIRELADERO wrote:
         | They seem to use two projects:
         | 
         | Irwin: https://github.com/clarkerubber/irwin
         | 
         | Kaladin: https://github.com/lichess-org/kaladin
        
       | baxuz wrote:
       | Everytime I see "lichess" I think of the D&D term - like a female
       | lich.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Current ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Irwin - the protector of Lichess from all chess players
       | villainous_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32047230 -
       | July 2022 (62 comments)
        
       | wjossey wrote:
       | Always excited when chess pops up on HN once a month or so. As
       | someone who picked it up as a hobby in December, I can attest
       | that lichess is a great app and site for folks looking to get
       | back into the game or get started (I'm also a premium chess.com
       | member as I use both products).
       | 
       | For those of you thinking about picking up chess, I'd highly
       | recommend watching the Chess Brah "Building Habits" series on
       | YouTube. Watch the first five or so videos, and just start
       | practicing those habits in rapid games (recommend 15 minute with
       | 10 second increment on lichess, which shows up as 15+10). Embrace
       | the losses, and just keep working on not hanging your pieces for
       | free.
       | 
       | If you're intimidated by playing other humans, you can try the
       | "Maia 1" bot on Lichess. It'll likely beat you up for a while if
       | you're a beginner, but it's a bot designed to play more like a
       | human, and it'll help you get the reps to feel more comfortable
       | playing other humans.
       | 
       | From there, just enjoy yourself. Chess can be frustrating because
       | by design you always lose about 50% or your takes, but once you
       | learn to accept the losses, it can be a great mental exercise to
       | keep your brain sharp.
        
         | Wherecombinator wrote:
         | Any tips on handling losses? I've become a puzzle only player
         | recently because I end up getting pissed off with myself after
         | a loss
        
           | Arch-TK wrote:
           | For me the biggest blocker was over-focusing on the numbers
           | going up and down. On lichess you can make all ratings
           | invisible (bottom of the preferences page, "Show player
           | ratings"). This means you can't see your own rating or your
           | opponent's. Your opponent can obviously still see both if he
           | or she doesn't have this option enabled.
        
           | alfiedotwtf wrote:
           | I'm a Lichess puzzle player. I find it more entertaining than
           | a full game, and can fit a puzzle or two anytime rather than
           | a match (even a bullet game is too draining for a quick time-
           | filler)
        
           | m12k wrote:
           | Think of the loss as a form of payment. What it buys you is
           | experience. So whenever you lose, ask yourself what
           | experience that just bought you? What improvement does it
           | allow you to bring into your future games?
           | 
           | If your mindset is to become a better player, rather than
           | winning, then a loss is still a way to gain something. And
           | long term, you'll win more games if you think this way
        
           | brian_herman wrote:
           | You don't learn anything with a win. You learn a lot with a
           | loss.
        
             | CSMastermind wrote:
             | I find a lot of beginners have this mentality and skip over
             | analyzing games they win to their detriment.
             | 
             | In general, the way to get better at chess, or anything
             | really, is all about intentionality.
             | 
             | I'd recommend reviewing every game, win or loss, and
             | looking for things you missed, what your opponent missed,
             | thinking about what your opponent was thinking, why did
             | they play the moves they did, etc.
        
           | iambateman wrote:
           | Because of how ELO works, your win-loss ratio will pretty
           | quickly normalize to 50-50, regardless of how good you are.
           | 
           | Over time your increased rating will reflect increased skill,
           | but even if your skill was doubled tomorrow, you would still
           | hit a 50-50 W/L because you would be playing people at the
           | same skill level.
           | 
           | However...if you want to feel better, play for a couple weeks
           | and then challenge an occasional player. Once you obliterate
           | them, you'll feel better about the losses it took to get
           | there. :)
        
           | xedrac wrote:
           | I had a very strong coach work with me on this exact problem.
           | He required me to reframe my definition of what it means to
           | win. Basically it came down the the quality of effort I put
           | into the game. If I put everything I have into a game and
           | lose, it now feels like a win, because I know it will make me
           | stronger. Conversely, if I don't give a good effort, but
           | happen to win the game, I count that as a loss. This only
           | applies to longer time control games. I still play blitz now
           | and then for light fun.
        
           | cjbprime wrote:
           | People will tell you to not care about losing or your rating,
           | but that didn't work for me.
           | 
           | What worked for me is "the rating I care about is my rating
           | in three months from now, not today", which gives space for
           | learning from losses etc.
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | Also learn the "London System", and try play correspondence
         | style games.
        
         | smugma wrote:
         | Curious, why do you subscribe to chess.com? What does it offer
         | that lichess does not?
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | For me it's just leagues better. The UI/UX is nicer, the
           | lessons are nice videos with a roadmap to understanding
           | chess, etc.
           | 
           | The only benefit I ever got from Lichess is that it's open
           | source which is nice.
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | The ux is indeed nice but I'm not paying to have stockfish
             | nnue wasm running on my phone.
             | 
             | I personally wouldn't use much more than analysis and I can
             | just get it for free exporting the game.
             | 
             | Puzzles feels like their better quality than lichess but
             | I've heard discording opinions.
        
               | Scarblac wrote:
               | For puzzles, Chesstempo was the first site to generate
               | them automatically from games, and it's still the best at
               | them.
        
             | throwaway6977 wrote:
             | I disagree with almost everything you just said, as someone
             | who has bounced back and forth for almost 4 years now.
        
               | dubeye wrote:
               | The poster only mentioned two things. So you answer just
               | makes me think you just don't admire commercial chess
               | sites!
               | 
               | To take the video lessons, chess.com are clearly leagues
               | ahead of lichess. They can pay the contributors to
               | produce quality productions. You can't really open source
               | the time of experts .
        
               | throwaway6977 wrote:
               | I agree with most everything you just said!
        
               | forty wrote:
               | Isn't all open source built from the time of experts?
               | (Not experts in chess, but in programming, design, etc)
               | :)
               | 
               | I mean in theory, nothing prevent a professional chess
               | player to make a nice video lesson and share it for free.
               | And there is no reason to assume this video would not be
               | as good as videos made for money (just like it's the case
               | for software)
        
           | wjossey wrote:
           | Both platforms are worth supporting. Com does a lot of great
           | events and creates great content, and I like supporting it. I
           | also prefer their UX.
           | 
           | Lichess has Maia bot, some good course material as well, and
           | I like to use my lichess account sometimes as an "alt" where
           | I can experiment with less stress about losing rating. Rating
           | doesn't matter, but it still makes me queasy if I tilt 100
           | points while trying out a new opening.
        
         | rearend-dev wrote:
         | I agree. I would also recommend Daniel Naroditsky's speed run
         | video series. He starts with new account and explains his ideas
         | and thoughts as he progress to higher and higher elo.
        
           | heartbreak wrote:
           | Naroditsky has the most accessible teaching videos on YouTube
           | as far as I'm concerned. He's also writing a regular chess
           | column for NYT.
        
           | randomNumber7 wrote:
           | I really like Yasser Seirawan's lectures on youtube. Its
           | amazing how he can talk about a chess game and make it appear
           | exciting.
        
       | rococode wrote:
       | Even their expenses are open source!
       | 
       | https://lichess.org/costs
        
         | lukeschwartz wrote:
         | wow, $409,644.10/year; now I really wonder how much money they
         | make from donations.
        
           | Scarblac wrote:
           | Roughly the same amount, I think? They seem to spend what
           | they receive.
        
         | matesz wrote:
         | $53k per year for main developer salary - from what I
         | understand it's quite complex Scala codebase.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | aspanu wrote:
       | Lichess as an application is very impressive, and I use it
       | frequently. The one thing that is somewhat more annoying is the
       | way in which there is a (daily?) restart of the servers, causing
       | strange behaviour in-game. For example, around the restart time,
       | sometimes the restart warning falls away and it seems like you
       | are waiting for the other player to make a move, when in fact you
       | are disconnected.
       | 
       | Is there a reason why restarts happen this way and there isn't
       | traffic draining between servers as they restart one at a time?
        
         | benediktwerner wrote:
         | There is only one server. Or well, there are lots of servers
         | that make up Lichess but they mostly do different stuff. There
         | is only one main server which handles all the core stuff
         | including games.
         | 
         | Also, restarts usually aren't daily. They generally are around
         | once a week. Though sometimes when a new feature is seeing
         | rapid iterations or an important enough bug is found, restarts
         | can happen a few days in a row.
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | I have said it before and I'll repeat it again: Lichess is the
       | best thing that happened to chess since castling.
        
       | dpratt wrote:
       | I've always thought that this was an amazing project and I've
       | enjoyed many many games on it, but I worry that she may not have
       | put the proper precautions in place to protect her phylactery.
        
       | actfrench wrote:
       | I run an education company that has some clubs for kids. One of
       | our families told us about Lichess and used it to start a chess
       | club. We LOVE Lichess and our kids use it all the time at Modulo
       | to play together or with a chess instructor.
       | 
       | We'd love to expand our little group.
       | 
       | If you have a kid (Grades K-12th grade) who wants to play chess
       | with us, please get in touch with me, tell me a little bit about
       | your kid and how you found us on Hacker News and we'll add you to
       | our club! It would be so great to have more fun families playing
       | with us.
       | 
       | https://lichess.org/team/modulo-learning
        
       | nikivi wrote:
       | I want to buy an electronic chess board to play over the board
       | but have each move sync to Lichess for later analysis. Wonder how
       | feasible that is to do.
        
         | gurchik wrote:
         | Any board that allows you to download the games in PGN format
         | can simply be copy-paste into Lichess. Additionally if you have
         | a DGT board and it is plugged into a computer you can sync it
         | directly to Lichess:
         | https://lichess.org/blog/X6l9bBUAACQAXE8M/play-on-lichess-us...
        
         | Scarblac wrote:
         | There is the Chessify app, which allows you to point a phone
         | camera at a normal chess board and it will recognize the
         | position and sync with Lichess.
         | 
         | I haven't used it myself and don't know if it handles _playing_
         | , but it's an interesting idea.
        
           | nikivi wrote:
           | Yea I want to avoid taking a photo of board after every move.
           | Essentially I want one of those boards they use in
           | tournaments like the recent candidates.
        
         | skeletonjelly wrote:
         | I've been using a local engine for analysis. Firstly it saves
         | Lichess CPU time, and secondly it's more powerful (running on
         | GPU). I prefer the Lichess interface so do use it occasionally
         | but otherwise the Nibbler front end over lc0 has been handy.
         | You can paste in FEN or PGN format which as others have
         | mentioned should be available from some physical boards.
        
       | dubeye wrote:
       | Ah the monthly 'open source is superior to commerical enterprise'
       | hymn.
       | 
       | I use both sites equally and lichess is inferior in pretty much
       | every respect. Assuming you pay of course .
        
         | bananamerica wrote:
         | You seem to be the only one making that comparison.
        
       | mNovak wrote:
       | Related (-ish) is the free and open source Go server [1,2], OGS.
       | A great community, and ad free. I've been playing there since the
       | pandemic started; lately even some professional/tournament games
       | were being hosted there.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/online-go [2] https://online-go.com
        
         | spot wrote:
         | agree, this is where i play now.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-10 23:01 UTC)