[HN Gopher] Can a Biologist Fix a Radio?
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       Can a Biologist Fix a Radio?
        
       Author : tambourine_man
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2022-07-10 14:41 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cell.com)
        
       | kens wrote:
       | The radio schematic in the paper looks kind of unusual, with a
       | dual-gate MOSFET. Also a bunch of varactor diodes for tuning. Any
       | radio experts want to comment on this circuit? I think it's FM,
       | but I'm not sure.
        
         | iasay wrote:
         | 330uH is a pretty big inductor for FM/VHF. RV1 controls RF gain
         | (think of TR1 as two JFETs, one a current source and one a
         | common source amplifier in a small signal model). TUNE VOLTS
         | changes the resonant frequency of the two tank circuits.
         | TR2/TR3 is an impedance buffer. The rest is decoupling.
         | 
         | Looks like a tunable preselector to me rather than a receiver.
         | So part of a receiver yes.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | I don't think that's a radio, just an antenna amplifier. I'm
         | not seeing where demodulation would happen. Some values seem
         | kinda weird to me, like R4 on top of the cascode seems sorta
         | high for something that oughta have a lot of bandwidth (and the
         | way L2+C6 are drawn is odd). Likewise 390k on the emitter of
         | Tr3, seems like very little room for bias for something that's
         | supposed to drive 50 ohms. Bandwidth at the input looks to be
         | <2 MHz, so maybe it's meant for AM broadcast or 160m.
        
           | iasay wrote:
           | R4 controls the output impedance of TR1. It'd have to be high
           | to keep the loaded Q of the L2 tank high. R10 looks like a
           | mistake to me. Probably should be 390 ohms.
           | 
           | Agree with your assertions though.
           | 
           | It might have been reverse engineered from something badly or
           | drawn up by someone smoking crack. Even Tektronix had that
           | problem on occasions in their service manuals ...
        
       | joshuahedlund wrote:
       | My impression from reading _The Computer Scientist's Guide to
       | Cell Biology_ is that the reason for woefully inadequate
       | descriptions of cellular systems, rather than any fundamental
       | deficiency on the part of biologists, is that the systems are so
       | dang tiny and crowded, with every molecule running into every
       | other molecule every second or so, at sizes literally below the
       | widths of light waves, that we just don't have the tools to
       | physically observe what's happening in real-time. Even the
       | primitive equivalents of "shooting individual components" took so
       | much clever innovation and hard work to figure out how to do that
       | frankly it's amazing that we know everything that we do.
        
         | nextos wrote:
         | There are interesting attempts at modeling cells using Boolean
         | networks (for example inferred using SAT/SMT), differential
         | equations (preferably stochastic) and also with process
         | algebra. Some are pretty successful.
         | 
         | > [...] we don't have the tools to physically observe what's
         | happening in real-time
         | 
         | We do have single-cell technology, which is pretty close as you
         | can get thousands of snapshots of different cells from the same
         | lineage. One can then reorder them into some sort of
         | pseudotime. There are also interesting real-time reporting
         | systems for bacterial cells, but they are not high throughput.
         | 
         | I think the field is still very young, and the current
         | generation of biology professors is mostly allergic to
         | formalism. Some departments are not, a notable exception are
         | Caltech and Cold Spring Harbor (where the author of the essay
         | is based).
         | 
         | A related read is Luca Cardelli's followup: Can a systems
         | biologist fix a Tamagotchi?
         | http://lucacardelli.name/Papers/Can%20a%20Systems%20Biologis...
         | 
         | And much deeper: Abstract Machines of Systems Biology
         | http://lucacardelli.name/Papers/Abstract%20Machines%20of%20S...
        
         | SilasX wrote:
         | >is that the systems are so dang tiny and crowded, with every
         | molecule running into every other molecule every second or so,
         | 
         | Per my two earlier comments [1], I would phrase it as an issue
         | of biological systems optimizing soley for fitness, while
         | (human-designed) computers are also heavily optimized for
         | intelligibility, modularity, and ease of reasoning about. This
         | makes it much easier to isolate and experiment with the
         | subsystems and gain an understand, in contrast to biological
         | systems, which will constantly bleed state across the entire
         | system.
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31710268
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16818220
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | The author kinda touches on that with:
         | 
         | > Another argument is that we know too little to analyze cells
         | in the way engineers analyze their systems. But, the question
         | is whether we would be able to understand what we need to learn
         | if we do not use a formal description. The biochemists would
         | measure rates and concentrations to understand how biochemical
         | processes work. A discrepancy between the measured and
         | calculated values would indicate a missing link and lead to the
         | discovery of a new enzyme, and a better understanding of the
         | subject of investigation.
         | 
         | > Do we know what to measure to understand a signal
         | transduction pathway? Are we even convinced that we need to
         | measure something? As Sydney Brenner noted, it seems that
         | biochemistry disappeared in the same year as communism
         | (Brenner, 1995 ). I think that a formal description would make
         | the need to measure a system's parameters obvious and would
         | help to understand what these parameters are.
        
       | jwilk wrote:
       | (2002)
       | 
       | Previous discussions:
       | 
       | June 2022: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697757 (22
       | comments)
       | 
       | January 2022: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30120457 (19
       | comments)
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
         | 
         | Related:
         | 
         |  _Can a biologist fix a radio? Or, what I learned while
         | studying apoptosis (2002)_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31697757 - June 2022 (21
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Can a biologist fix a radio?-Or, what I learned while
         | studying apoptosis (2002) [pdf]_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30120457 - Jan 2022 (18
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Can a Biologist Fix a Radio?_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=624695 - May 2009 (4
         | comments)
         | 
         | Note the small thread from 2009 there. I could swear there have
         | been others though?
        
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