[HN Gopher] Help me identify possible tracking device found in m...
___________________________________________________________________
Help me identify possible tracking device found in my car
Author : jeffbee
Score : 455 points
Date : 2022-07-09 23:21 UTC (23 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (gist.github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (gist.github.com)
| mrslave wrote:
| Is there a community for those interested in removing factory
| tracking from newer model cars? A recent discussion here
| mentioned how prevalent they are in vehicles made in the last
| decade. (No link, sorry.)
| repler wrote:
| On the off chance it's meant to do something useful:
| https://fccid.io/frequency-explorer.php?lower=435&upper=435
| intrasight wrote:
| I want to point out something. Even though this device is/was
| most likely innocuous, it should also be clear that such non-
| factory, seemingly innocuous devices could easily contain and
| cloak something of concern. Quick googling finds for example:
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-04/the-big-h...
| altano wrote:
| That story and the followups have always been and remain
| extremely suspect.
| https://www.google.com/search?q=bloomberg+supermicro+story
| bschwindHN wrote:
| Wasn't that Bloomberg article found to be false? Don't take my
| word for it, look it up, but I remember hearing Bloomberg take
| a big reputation hit after that one.
| deathanatos wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloomberg_News#Suspected_fake_.
| ..
| intrasight wrote:
| I just copied the first thing I found. Thanks for the update.
| My point still stands. We have to be increasingly careful
| about accessories we plug in. Here's perhaps a more relevant
| example: https://counterespionage.com/malicious-usb-cables/
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| I'm far from an expert in this field, but that looks an awful lot
| like a 3rd part remote start add on.
|
| Here's a tear down of one that looks pretty similar in principle:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chw__TwMgdI
| irjustin wrote:
| Aftermarket remote start.
|
| Tracking devices don't need to be nearly so complicated nor hard
| wired into the ignition.
|
| If it's a remote kill for a lease/lender then you'd expect some
| ability to transmit it's location. Why go through all the trouble
| of installing a remote kill that can't transmit it's location nor
| actually disable the car (it still works after removal)
|
| [edit]
|
| Going with the KARR "dealer alarm" per other post.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Hrmm, must be a master-key type system as stated above because
| this car comes from Honda with remote start, which is still
| working after I excised this weird thing.
| vcryan wrote:
| Most of the time, when people think law enforcement is tracking
| their vehicle location, it turns out to be that the person's wife
| is aware that they are cheating, and is building a case.
| jowsie wrote:
| If you google KARR Honda or KARR Alarm you should find some
| better information.
|
| I found identical looking devices by using Google Lens and
| focusing on just the black box with the green button.
|
| https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/08/never-buy-car-alar...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/whatisit/comments/rnr48t/found_unde...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/subaru/comments/7m9dv9/mysterious_b...
| riffic wrote:
| I wouldn't buy a new car without demanding this to be removed
| and restored to factory condition at the pre-delivery
| inspection.
|
| used cars, on the other hand, are a different story. complain
| to American Honda perhaps? Contact info for anyone's
| convenience:
|
| https://owners.honda.com/help/customer-relations
|
| American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
|
| Honda Automobile Customer Service
|
| Mail Stop: CHI-5
|
| 1919 Torrance Blvd.
|
| Torrance, CA 90501-2746
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| How is it allowed for a dealer to cut wires and install a non
| OEM-approved electronic device onto the CAN bus? This seems
| like it would void all the manufacturer warranties and
| potentially create liability for the manufacturer if it
| malfunctions.
| AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote:
| Because they didn't think they would get caught
| userbinator wrote:
| _This seems like it would void all the manufacturer
| warranties_
|
| That's what the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%
| 93Moss_Warranty... is for.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Not really...
|
| This is a complete hack job and I doubt there is a single
| component related to the electrical system that wouldn't be
| an easy denial from Honda unless the dealer played along...
| and in a modern car so much is tied to the electrical
| system that, while technically they didn't just void their
| _entire_ warranty, they did just gut it to the point of
| being nearly useless.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Manufacturers must prove a modification to a car caused the
| fault in a product to deny an otherwise-covered warranty
| issue, regardless of who installed it. As for if this device
| kills the battery or what-have-you, i'm not sure what sort of
| liability the dealership is taking.
| themulticaster wrote:
| Does this apply even if the manufacturer adds a clause like
| "any modification not authorized by [manufacturer] or
| performed by a [manufacturer]-approved repair shop voids
| the warranty"?
| judge2020 wrote:
| It doesn't matter what the manufacturer says, they cant
| void the entire car's warranty due to a modification. If
| a 3p repair shop performs eg. a brake pad replacement and
| then your brakes fail, then that repair shop is liable
| and not the manufacturer.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| The law isn't limited to cars.
| franga2000 wrote:
| It is in practice. Rooting a smartphone? Overclocking
| your CPU? Replacing parts in a laptop?
| hedora wrote:
| All of those things are protected. If the firmware melts
| the board, the CPU overheats, or the replacement part
| shorts something out then the warranty is void. However,
| if the failures are unrelated, then it's fine.
|
| I once caught a motherboard on fire, then found some
| unrelated mechanical issues with it. (It still worked,
| except for the bad connector.)
|
| The burn marks were cosmetic, and the shop sent me a DOA
| replacement. (That's more a story about the shop being
| awesome, but they were technically legally obligated to
| honor the warranty.)
| gambiting wrote:
| Replacing parts in a laptop absolutely does not void your
| warranty no matter what the manufacturer says.
| franga2000 wrote:
| What do you mean "no matter what the manufacturer says"?
| If the manufacturer says your warranty is void - it is.
| If they broke a law in doing so is a separate issue that
| you would have to battle out in court.
|
| When your 800$ laptop's speakers start buzzing and the
| service center says you need to pay 80$ for the repair
| because the tamper seal on the RAM was broken, are you
| really going to spend 30k and a year of your free time to
| sue them over it?
| gambiting wrote:
| >>are you really going to spend 30k and a year of your
| free time
|
| Are there no small claims courts where you live?
| Ombudmans? It really isn't a huge deal, nor is it very
| expensive. It's not 30k - more like $50. And not a year,
| usually few weeks at most.
|
| >>? If the manufacturer says your warranty is void - it
| is.
|
| No, it isn't, that's the whole point.
| hedora wrote:
| If you can get the big company to say they're denying the
| warranty for that reason in writing, you could probably
| find a no-win, no-pay lawyer to file an eight digit class
| action lawsuit.
|
| They know that as well as you do. I've found they usually
| do more passive aggressive / ambiguous stuff than overtly
| break the law.
|
| Once we had a Toshiba laptop with a bad motherboard. They
| replaced it with some other board that didn't have
| drivers for Linux, or even for Windows.
|
| Lenovo took over thirty days to repair my IBM thinkpad
| (broken screen connector), and when it came back, the
| high voltage screen transformer was shorted to the case,
| so it shocked the heck out of me when I turned it on.
|
| On top of that, they didn't replace the broken screen
| connector, and claimed it was "no fault". This was after
| the local lenovo repair people found the fault, and
| lenovo said they couldn't ship the required part.
| nopenopenopeno wrote:
| The relevant context is, though.
| hedora wrote:
| When we bought a brand new GMC, Dealer A installed a
| counterfeit backup camera.
|
| Half a tank of gas later, Dealer B claimed the warranty was
| void because of the camera. We brought it in because the
| radio kept freaking out and it would drain the battery if
| left off over night.
|
| There was an active recall for both those issues. Dealer C
| fixed them by installing a firmware update.
| api wrote:
| Has anyone ever had an actual good experience with an auto
| dealer?
| temp_praneshp wrote:
| We got a car two weeks ago, the experience at the Acura
| dealership was pretty good (of course, we got presented
| the bullshit warranty stuff in the finance manager's
| room, but we were able to turn everything down for a
| couple of minutes and things were ok).
|
| We also had a good time at a Toyota dealership, but any
| car buying with them had a $6290 markup....
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| Next time try generating the sales documentation using
| markdown.
| temp_praneshp wrote:
| Re. markdown, why should I? Also, what's sales
| documentation, is that something I should have received?
|
| Given the state of the market, choosing between many cars
| wasn't an option, but outside of that, I care that the
| process is fast, there aren't sneaky charges, and the
| interaction is respectful. I prefer all my paperwork
| printed out, and that's what they did by default.
| sgtnoodle wrote:
| Our certified pre-owned GMC Acadia spent two months in
| the dealership. They needed a special tool to fix an
| emissions issue. GM said it would take 6 months to get
| the tool, so the dealership ordered one on eBay. They
| gave us a rental car the whole time, and even swapped it
| out for a premium trimmed GMC Terrain when we went on a
| family road trip.
|
| The dealership had previously repaired the moon roof, and
| inadvertently damaged the headliner. So, while working on
| the emissions issue they replaced the whole headliner.
| The replacement is a little cheesier than from the
| factory, but good enough.
|
| There's still an exterior rattle that they claimed they
| fixed 3 times now. At least they're trying. Last time I
| took it in, they removed several trim pieces and drove it
| around. I'm just going to have to track it down myself I
| guess.
|
| I bought a new Mustang in 2010, and paid for the 5 year
| extended service plan. The hood paint corroded and the
| dealership repainted it, and gave me a rental car for the
| week. The hood has since corroded again and it's out of
| warranty now. I am mulling over splurging on a new paint
| job, with a classic Mustang racing stripe.
|
| Buying the Mustang, I went to three dealerships. The
| first one, I got a test drive, and then the salesmen just
| walked away. I think he assumed I wasn't serious when I
| said I was buying a car that day. The second dealership,
| the salesman was super sleazy and pushy, and so I walked
| away. The third dealership, the salesman was really
| relaxed and professional. He asked if I was financing,
| and when I said no, he said he didn't like to waste time
| haggling and was happy just to move inventory. He offered
| me a price just $200 above the friends-and-family x-code
| price.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Nice, that's exactly the switchgear at least.
| honkdaddy wrote:
| It's amusing to me that someone would go through the effort of
| deconstructing it, writing a gist, and posting it on HN before
| literally just googling "device under steering wheel" and
| seeing other people posting about the _exact_ same device.
|
| People tend to imagine their lives are more interesting and
| worthy of surveillance than they really are :)
| rocqua wrote:
| He googled the device name, which I would also expect to show
| up in posts by others.
| sakurashy wrote:
| burrows wrote:
| Yeah, people are just imagining the NSA led global
| surveillance apparatus.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| the NSA is certainly real, the likelihood of them bugging
| your car unless you're smuggling nuclear secrets is rather
| low
|
| the three letter agencies don't care about people who play
| video games and watch cat videos all day
| brigandish wrote:
| And yet they engage in mass surveillance, even of their
| own citizens.
| iratewizard wrote:
| No, no. That's done by the contractors they ship data to.
| Otherwise they would be breaking federal laws.
| nebulousthree wrote:
| You make it sound like the NSA can never fail. If it's
| monitoring you then you are likely doing something
| deserving of monitoring. They can be wrong though and
| you'll still have been spied on and information collected
| for future use. Consider a career in politics, perhaps?
| burrows wrote:
| behringer wrote:
| The NSA is known to surveil people who are completely
| harmless, including spouses, loved ones, romantic
| interests, etc.
| natch wrote:
| > unless you're smuggling nuclear secrets
|
| unless you're _suspected of_ smuggling nuclear secrets
|
| ftfy
| worker767424 wrote:
| For several months, keyless entry stopped working on my
| car. It fixed itself. My unlikely conspiracy theory is I
| was being tracked and interference kept the keyfob from
| working.
| markhahn wrote:
| never attribute to malice (or conspiracy) what can be
| explained by incompetence (or bugs).
| jll29 wrote:
| depends what's embedded in your cat videos.
| 867-5309 wrote:
| sublimiaow message? stegaMOGraph?
| burrows wrote:
| If your car has a networked computer it's probably
| bugged/backdoored imo.
|
| (Talking out of my ass)
| fknorangesite wrote:
| lrvick wrote:
| If it is a Tesla they advertise this as a feature.
| influx wrote:
| If this is America, it would be the FBI who has
| jurisdiction. If this was outside America, CIA would be
| more likely to be installing hardware on a vehicle. If
| you hear the guys breathing on your phone line, that's
| probably the NSA ;)
| hannasanarion wrote:
| The NSA isn't interested enough in you to send somebody to
| your house to break into your car and install a gps
| tracker.
| kevinh456 wrote:
| Imagine if they got some in at an F&I company and
| convinced car dealers to install the surveillance without
| the installers even being aware of it
| thinkingemote wrote:
| They are imagining being part or the target of a
| conspiracy. It's a paranoid quirk of American politics, all
| sides see scheming and conspiracy.
|
| Catholics, Communists, Woke subversives, or white
| supremacists. If you are part of American politics there is
| a mainstream conspiracy theory that your group has.
| kersplody wrote:
| Nah, the NSA doesn't need to bug your car. All cars after
| 2016 or so come pre bugged with an OnStar/StarLink/BMW
| Assist Remote/etc Telemetry System continuously sending
| data over 3G or LTE. Conveniently, the manufacturers
| already sell this data in an "anonymised" form. ( _cough_
| Otonomo _cough_ Wejo).
|
| Private companies are so much scarier than the NSA when it
| comes to privacy -- you have none -- your life's data is to
| be mined, brokered, and sold to the highest bidder.
|
| The NSA only cares about you if you are talking to a small
| number of known hostile foreign people who are already a
| party to a FISA warrant.
| nephanth wrote:
| I wonder how those telemetry systems work for EU
| customers. Cause that sounds pretty much illegal under
| GDPR (non-consented tracking, data stored overseas...)
| mellavora wrote:
| Works just fine. The major German carmakers have an
| alliance to share data, and treat cars as roving sensor
| networks.
|
| The data is used for improved road safety (real-time
| traffic jam awareness) and also so premium clients can
| find parking spots.
| closewith wrote:
| Do you have a source for these claims? Without informed
| consent, they would be significant breaches of both
| national data protection legislation and the GDPR.
| JPLeRouzic wrote:
| I do not know for cars, but some major news websites in
| France and Germany are still not GDPR compliant (no
| cookie consent), yet nothing happens.
| closewith wrote:
| There's definitely a decided lack of enforcement across
| the bloc. Location data collected via vehicle telemetry
| would be a significant breach, though.
| RuggedPineapple wrote:
| People tend to VASTLY overstate what sort of protections
| you get under the GPDR, to the point that I tend to
| assume nobody has actually read the regulations built off
| it.
|
| In this case, there is no protection for data from your
| car, beyond the fact that carmakers don't want to share
| it. Writing regulations to cover it is being done now,
| and the tug of war is between giving any company who
| wants it access and giving companies the car
| manufacturers themselves select and get paid by access to
| it.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/your-c...
| closewith wrote:
| This is nonsense. The protections of both national and EU
| regulations apply to personal data collected via your
| car.
|
| I can only ask that you refrain from spreading
| misinformation - it muddies the waters.
| RuggedPineapple wrote:
| Read the article I linked yourself, no misinformation.
|
| Quoting:
|
| The contest is entering a pivotal phase as EU regulators
| look to hammer out the world's first laws for the
| ballooning industry around web-enabled vehicles, pitting
| carmakers against a coalition of insurers, leasing
| companies and repair shops.
|
| [...]
|
| Car manufacturers, guarding their gatekeeper role in
| accessing data from their vehicles, have resisted
| specific regulations for in-vehicle data, saying that
| protecting consumers is paramount.
|
| "Europe's auto industry is committed to giving access to
| the data generated by the vehicles it produces," said a
| spokesperson for the European Automobile Manufacturers'
| Association (ACEA). "However, uncontrolled access to in-
| vehicle data poses major safety, (cyber) security, data
| protection and privacy threats."
| closewith wrote:
| I did read the article. It doesn't make the same claims
| that you do, and - strangely - it doesn't superceded
| national and EU regulation.
| tinus_hn wrote:
| Or if you are making a phone call or transferring data
| over the internet. They might not be bugging just any guy
| but they track everything they can.
| toast0 wrote:
| Welp, my car is now effectively bug free. It shipped with
| 2G, got a free upgrade to 3G, because 2G was being shut
| down. It has an optional upgrade to LTE but the features
| don't justify the cost and the mounting is derpy (new
| modem is a different shape, so it's velcro + double sided
| tape)
| andrepd wrote:
| I wonder what percentage of people are aware that their
| car is tracking them at all times. Surveillance
| capitalism is scary.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| > "Private companies are so much scarier than the NSA"
|
| We are in the long swing where people think only state
| tyrany matters. They forgot how bad private tyrany can
| get, of robber barons were.
| mellavora wrote:
| or state-enabled abortion vigilantes.
| yonaguska wrote:
| > Private companies are so much scarier than the NSA when
| it comes to privacy -- you have none -- your life's data
| is to be mined, brokered, and sold to the highest bidder.
|
| Intel agencies privatize their spying to get around
| warrants. Private companies spying on you are not a far
| step from the NSA spying on you directly.
|
| > The NSA only cares about you if you are talking to a
| small number of known hostile foreign people who are
| already a party to a FISA warrant.
|
| Hah. If you have any political aspiration at all, you are
| a potential target. FBI lied to attain FISA warrants, and
| the lawyer responsible got a slap on the wrist. DC juries
| will never convict one of their own, there is zero
| accountability at this point.
| bsenftner wrote:
| And this is exactly why I have a manufactured in 2016
| Subaru. I saw this regulation going into effect,
| investigated what vehicle would last the longest, and
| purchased the last available non-snitch personal vehicle
| generation.
|
| We're in the initial stages of a new dark age for
| humanity. Surveillance Capitalism and our generalized
| Adult Immaturity is going to swallow the free world, and
| it may be hundreds of years before actual human maturity
| develops to allow whatever comes after.
| blakespot wrote:
| KARR - Knight Automated Roving Robot
| midnitewarrior wrote:
| I prefer K.I.T.T.
| AmVess wrote:
| Remote starter. They are hack jobs to install. 435 MHz is the
| frequency the remote uses to start the car.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| What is the usecase for a remote starter? I don't really
| understand why someone would want this. Could even be dangerous
| if it's left in gear.
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| I've looked at remote start systems. The specs always require
| an automatic transmission. The use case is simple: Today's
| high is 111F (44C), if the car is parked in the sun it's
| going to be a lot warmer than that inside. In those
| conditions we typically open the doors and wait a little bit
| before entering--using a remote start to turn the AC on a
| minute or two before getting in would be nice.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| To heat your car when it's cold outside, prior to your entry.
| pixl97 wrote:
| Also to cool your car when it's hot outside. Was 105F/40C
| today where I live. The parking lot will can significantly
| hotter than that in direct sun on tarmac surfaces.
| shotta wrote:
| Living in winter. Preheating the vehicle. (That's what I use
| mine for, which is factory installed.)
| carom wrote:
| Most people in the US do not drive manuals. You can get them
| in manuals but you have to hack some stuff, and yea, it will
| stall your car out if you start it in gear. In the US they
| are largely for convenience so you can heat or cool your car
| before you go out.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| No manual I have ever driven will even start without the
| clutch engaged, so I assume a remote starter can bypass
| that somehow?
|
| I always leave my manual car in gear in the opposite the
| direction the car would be likely to roll if the emergency
| brake ever failed. (If the car would roll forward, put it
| in reverse. If it would roll backwards put it in 1st).
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| Just to clarify for less automobile oriented people: The
| clutch is engaged when the pedal is not being pressed,
| and disengages when pressed. Starting a manual car in
| gear _without_ the clutch pedal fully pressed leaves the
| power train connected to the motor, and so the car moves
| when the starter motor turns the engine.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| I am the GP of the comment, and that was my mistake.
| Thank you for the clarification because I did not know
| this. I meant, "the clutch pedal fully pressed" in my GP
| comment.
| ealexhudson wrote:
| There's plenty that do, and in fact UK driving test
| examiners would frequently slip a car into gear before
| the candidate makes their first start. If they hop the
| car, it's an automatic fail, before you even get out on
| the road.
| gsich wrote:
| Subaru Forester and XV do that. No gear in - car starts
| without clutch.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| You haven't driven a lot of manuals then. My friend's dad
| once got his hyundai up the porch starting it with a gear
| in.
| BayAreaEscapee wrote:
| I think that modern cars have electronics that keep you
| from starting the car without the clutch pressed. Cars I
| owned in the 80s and 90s would engage the starter when
| you turned the keys. Cars since then won't engage the
| starter unless the clutch is in.
| mtrower wrote:
| Even my 80s and 90s cars have a clutch switch (though the
| 87 is Japanese, can't speak for American cars in that
| decade). No pedal, no start.
| avidiax wrote:
| There's nothing preventing the engine from turning
| backwards. Engage the highest gear if you are worried
| your handbrake will give out.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Put it in 1st to stop the car from moving. Put it in 4th
| to push start it.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| I've had most success with 2nd or rear
| hirvi74 wrote:
| Same, I have used 2nd gear before, and it worked
| perfectly fine.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| All the cars I've owned in Europe (all manual) had no
| lock out whatsoever.. No need to press the clutch or
| brake for the starter too work.
|
| Having said that, when I still had a car I used to drive
| old cars. My newest car was a 2005 Volvo S40. But this
| was also perfectly capable of starting in gear and with
| the clutch engaged.
|
| My first car still had a choke :)
| hirvi74 wrote:
| All of my vehicles were owned in the USA, and maybe that
| has something to do with it? Every model of car I have
| driven had this -- late 80s BMW, multiple Volkswagens,
| and a Jeep Wrangler. Hell, the John Deere farm equipment
| I grew up using (tractors, old lawn mowers, etc.) all had
| this too.
|
| > My first car still had a choke :)
|
| What car? Was it a Datsun by chance?
| WalterBright wrote:
| Mine will.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Ah I forgot about that. All my own cars were manuals.
|
| And I've lived mostly in countries with pretty mild
| climates so there wasn't any need for this. Though even in
| the Netherlands this could be handy in the middle of winter
| or summer. Beats scraping the windows.
| [deleted]
| dahdum wrote:
| Cold weather primarily. You need the engine to warm up before
| driving and it's much nicer to have the heater warm up the
| car and loosen ice on the windows.
|
| You can run outside and start the car then come back, as I
| did growing up in a cold region, but remote start is sooo
| much nicer.
| mgbmtl wrote:
| Cars built in the last 15 years usually don't need to be
| warned up:
|
| https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-
| technology/a19086/...
|
| But yeah, icy/foggy windows are a pain to clear.
|
| I live in Montreal, and when I had an ICE car, most days,
| it was fine to just de-icing the windows, then start the
| motor, and slowly roll out of the alley. Admittedly, most
| winter days, it's not that cold.
|
| Kind of drives me crazy, the smell and pollution from
| idling ICE cars :/
| FireBeyond wrote:
| > But yeah, icy/foggy windows are a pain to clear.
|
| I've had cars with auxiliary heat just for this purpose.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| > Cars built in the last 15 years usually don't need to
| be warned up:
|
| They don't need to be warmed up for the _engine_. They
| still might need to be warmed up for the _driver_ ,
| though.
| erik_seaberg wrote:
| Sometimes you can't drive until the defroster is warm
| enough to keep your own breath from fogging the
| windshield.
| dahdum wrote:
| I had wondered if the engine bit was still necessary,
| thank you.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Makes sense yeah. Sometimes I'd do this manually but
| because I used a shared car park I'd need the spare key to
| do this safely with the main key in the ignition. I didn't
| consider this option. I haven't owned a car for many years
| and the last one was already pretty old :)
| sokoloff wrote:
| The one I installed tied into the brake light circuit,
| such that pressing on the brake would kill the remote
| starter's completion of the "run" circuit. That's a
| simple and fairly effective way to prevent a casual
| drive-off.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| It's hyper super duper useful in rough climates. Primarily
| when it's minus 40 outside and you have kids, it's nice to
| warm up the car slightly before entering it. If you get
| spoiled, you might then also remote start it when it's plus
| 40 outside and you want ac to at least start.
|
| Also note that "if it's left in gear" is virtually irrelevant
| in North America, fwiw - something like under 2 percent of
| cars here are manual. Vast majority of vehicles and models do
| not have it as an option.
| ehnto wrote:
| I didn't realize the percentage of manual transmissions was
| so low, no wonder the car culture there seems to idolize
| it.
|
| In my climate, on a 45c day, inside the car's going to be
| more than that. It's definitely a workout for the generally
| imported car's A/C unit. I am guilty of turning the car on
| and waiting under a tree or something for the AC to bring
| the temperature down to at least ambient.
|
| I'm looking at a series hybrid car. I must admit, pre-
| conditioning the car off the battery would be pretty
| luxurious.
| mtrower wrote:
| > I didn't realize the percentage of manual transmissions
| was so low, no wonder the car culture there seems to
| idolize it.
|
| Yeah, it's getting more and more difficult to even buy
| them at all over here. Rather slim pickings.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Thanks also, I get it now. I used to do this manually
| sometimes in the Netherlands to warm up the ice to make it
| easier to scrape off. But it involved the spare key to
| relock it while running and also to set the heat to full
| blast. We never get minus 40 though and where I live now it
| doesn't even freeze :)
|
| And as we also have pretty tiny engines here, it takes a
| long time to heat up this way because first the cooling
| water needs to get warm which takes ages with the engine
| running stationary. So I only did this once in a while if
| it was really needed.
|
| My old Volvo did have an option to open all the windows
| with the remote though which was great to let the heat out
| in summer.
| rocqua wrote:
| Note that, for emmesions, heating up the car in
| stationary is actually positive. It prevents driving a
| car with a cold engine. Cold engines cause horrible
| inefficiency in cars. It's one of the reasons why city
| driving is worse for mileage and emissions than highway
| driving. Shorter trips.
| junga wrote:
| I am unable to find a source for this. Until now I
| thought heating up stationary is bad concerning all
| possible aspects, including emissions.
| throwaheyy wrote:
| Seems to be caused by the period before the catalytic
| converter gets up to normal exhaust temperature.
|
| "Vehicles fitted with catalytic converters emit most of
| their total pollution during the first five minutes of
| engine operation; for example, before the catalytic
| converter has warmed up sufficiently to be fully
| effective."
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter
| junga wrote:
| Sure. But otoh the car is idling for tens of minutes
| maybe and possibly no single part of the engine and
| exhaust system is gaining the needed temperatures to
| operate cleanly. This means more emissions, more wear and
| more stressed out neighbours. I'm sure about the last one
| at least.
| rocqua wrote:
| There is probably a sweet spot. Certainly, you want to
| avoid loading a cold engine too much. But don't idle for
| qn hour either.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| But then you cause those bad emissions in your car park
| while it's heating up :)
|
| I don't there is a big benefit overall.
| oogali wrote:
| Almost every car I've recently owned and/or rented has
| this option: unlock the car, then hold down the unlock
| button to roll all the windows down (and in some models,
| additionally open the sunroof).
| tfigment wrote:
| I hate this feature with all my heart. Ive never needed
| it or wanted it and can easily roll down my own windows.
| 4-5 times ive come back to my car and windows rolled down
| after shopping or working as i must have accidentally
| activated it.
| lodovic wrote:
| Same for the remote trunk opener. I can't count how many
| times people rang my doorbell at night to alert my the
| trunk is open.
| nopenopenopeno wrote:
| Why on earth?
| tbihl wrote:
| I hate it when it's operated by remote, but it's really
| nice to do it with the key in the lock. If you have to
| leave your car outside in the sun and you know it won't
| be raining, you can easily crack all the windows 1.5
| inches or so to let the heat easily escape your car.
| WalterBright wrote:
| My car is manual, and I always leave it in gear when parked
| in case the parking brake fails.
| post_break wrote:
| That's why they make remote starters with clutch
| lockouts. Can't remote start if in gear.
| wruza wrote:
| Spoiled? Being low tolerant to anything above 23C I find
| getting into these pressure cookers a very uncomfortable
| experience. I'm simply refusing to get a taxi when such
| happy summer driver arrives with windows down in 35C+. I'd
| better get into an ice cold car rather than that.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I live in a country where it's above 23 degrees most of
| the year :) I got used to it. When I first got here I
| used to wear T-Shirts in winter at the agony of my
| colleagues. But the second year was a lot tougher..
| ospzfmbbzr wrote:
| Here it's cold in the winter and it is definitely illegal
| to install a remote start system in a car with a manual
| transmission.
|
| Before my life in tech I worked in car audio installs back
| in the 90s.
|
| One day one of the senior installer techs put a remote
| start in his own Mazda truck which had a manual
| transmission. A bit of time went by and we were outside
| smoking one day when he must have hit the button in this
| pocket. Apparently the e-brake wasn't on, and the truck was
| in first gear, so it started and drove across the parking
| lot and hit the wall of a building as we all watched.
| kube-system wrote:
| A proper remote starter for a manual transmission has
| sensors to ensure the vehicle is in neutral with the
| handbrake on.
| ospzfmbbzr wrote:
| > A proper remote starter
|
| That's the key part. Proper :)
|
| IIRC he just bypassed the sensor that would have been for
| Park on an automatic, since there were no manual
| transmission kits for sale as they were (and I think
| still are) illegal for sale where I live.
|
| He would even refuse to do this sort of thing for other
| people so it was pretty funny it happened to him.
| WalterBright wrote:
| A remote start should have a slider switch and a lock for
| it, so you can't "push the button" by sitting on it.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| My factory one on a factory fob requires 3 presses within
| a second to activate.
| ospzfmbbzr wrote:
| It was and add-on to a car alarm and controlled via
| second or third button on the fob. Also 1994.
| [deleted]
| forinti wrote:
| What an interesting coincidence, I was just watching a video on
| how people keep their cars warm in Yakutia, and this is the
| sort of thing they use.
| [deleted]
| krnlpnc wrote:
| It looks like a remote starter to me
| crikeyjoe wrote:
| How about the tracking device I'm your pocket?
| [deleted]
| fulafel wrote:
| If you are in EU and/or a civilized country you should probably
| notify your national privacy / GDPR responsible ombudsman.
| xwowsersx wrote:
| On a forum, someone identified this is a "KARR" aftermarket alarm
| system and included a pic of, what appears to be, the same
| device. https://www.ramforum.com/threads/what-is-
| this.187308/#post-2...
| SergeAx wrote:
| GitHub required me to log in to see the content on this link. Are
| they going all the way of Facebook, Twitter and other shady
| patterns practitioners?
|
| Update: was unable to reproduce, maybe an a/b test or security
| check.
| ehnto wrote:
| That's strange. I did not have to. I wonder if it was based on
| your user agent, or some anti-crawler detection?
|
| I have noticed this with a lot of websites recently, things
| like Twitter and Instagram only sometimes ask me to log in to
| view things. Reddit as well, will be happy to show me some
| article, then later that same day it'll ask me to log in.
| SergeAx wrote:
| You are right. I logged out, and then proceeded to view the
| gist without logging in. Maybe they left some tracking cookie
| after log out (like device id), or they invalidated my
| previous session and triggered login on that invalidated
| session.
| the_only_human wrote:
| no
| riffic wrote:
| blame your stealership, and don't buy cars from them unless they
| remove this garbage at the pre-delivery inspection
| gpas wrote:
| If the car is new ask Honda if the device should be there, if not
| ask the dealer a new car. I would never feel safe driving a car
| tampered by who know who.
|
| You say it's a 2020 car, how many miles have you driven with the
| unknown device plugged and doing its job? Crazy stuff.
| gjs278 wrote:
| osamagirl69 wrote:
| Looks like a dealer installed 'alarm system'. I bought a mazda in
| 2011 which had a similar system, as best as I can tell the dealer
| installs them as asset trackers for cars on the lot and then
| tried to upsell it to me as an 'alarm system'. Its a bit sketchy
| that they didn't mention it to you when you bought the car...
|
| The 433MHz is likely a keyfob receiver (and possibly transmitter
| to spoof the original key).
| djbusby wrote:
| Time for SDR inspection?
|
| https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433
| oceanplexian wrote:
| I had this exact system. If anyone is interested in removing it:
|
| It has a bunch of "fake wires" acting as taps into the wiring
| harness, and it detects if you remove a tap and then trips trip a
| relay where it cuts the ignition wire that is rerouted through
| the unit. So I removed the device, and put the ignition wire back
| together and the car was back to normal. I think if OP's car
| still has warning lights go off, he likely nicked some of the
| other wires inadvertently, or broke them while pulling the taps
| out.
| felipesoc wrote:
| This reminds me of that time a guy on Reddit found a tracker on
| his car and ended up being FBI's.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dmh5s/does_this...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/doe17/update_to...
| olalonde wrote:
| Wow, that's insane. I thought those "I'm definitely bugged now"
| / "I'm on a list now" comments on Reddit were just jokes but
| apparently not.
| lostlogin wrote:
| That's a fascinating read. Thanks.
| worker767424 wrote:
| Now they just ask your cell phone company.
| incompatible wrote:
| I'm guessing that nearly everybody knows this by now, and for
| those occasional times when burying a body or whatever, would
| leave the phone at home.
| mpol wrote:
| Down here there was a murder case recently. The suspect
| always replied prompt on his messages, except for the 2
| hours during that murder. His phone was supposedly at home
| with him being out.
|
| There were many more juicy bits in that case, but this part
| is somewhat in the context of the discussion. The message
| seemed to be, plan better next time :)
| thisistheend123 wrote:
| Could you provide a link where I can read more details
| about it? .. thanks
| mpol wrote:
| It is a case with many updated news articles as the story
| unfolded.
|
| Here are 2 links in Dutch:
| https://www.destentor.nl/zwolle/de-gier-hangt-27-jaar-
| cel-bo... and https://www.destentor.nl/zwolle/de-gier-
| vrijgesproken-van-mo...
|
| Aha, this is about the phone :)
| https://www.rtvoost.nl/nieuws/2089361/27-jaar-celstraf-
| geeis...
| buran77 wrote:
| Joke aside, your car probably has a mobile connection by
| now and even the dealer/manufacturer has access to the data
| which means authorities don't need more than to purchase
| it. So you might want to leave the car at home too. And the
| smartwatch.
| incompatible wrote:
| Actually, I don't have a car. Is there any good way to
| check for trackers embedded into shoe soles?
| bregma wrote:
| I suspect the cameras on buses can used to track where
| you're taking the body. Maybe also where you tap in/out
| with the extra fare for the bulky cargo.
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| Wear flipflops.
| actionablefiber wrote:
| This gives me a morbidly hilarious mental image of
| someone trying to dispose of a body using a bike trailer
| or cargo bike. Perhaps the rider might even feel a little
| self-satisfied about how environmentally friendly they're
| being by doing so.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| You joke, but some shoes have RFID tags in the soles.
| octoberfranklin wrote:
| ... and claim that they got the data from "apps".
|
| Really, we swear. But we can't tell you which ones. Maybe the
| apps running on the cell towers.
| carabiner wrote:
| Puzzled at the upvotes. Like everyone says, this is a run of the
| mill aftermarket alarm system installed by a dealership. It's the
| car version of crapware. This is not a tracker.
| yellowapple wrote:
| Any chance you could add a photo of the full board?
|
| Looks like an aftermarket alarm system (and some of the other
| comments seem to confirm that).
| tombrossman wrote:
| OP, check your camera settings and maybe replace the images with
| ones containing less metadata. No contact info in your bio or I
| would have privately notified you. Privacy is difficult, so good
| luck to you. (edited to make comment less specific)
| greggsy wrote:
| Ironic that they tracked themselves, but less overt ways of
| informing OP...
| tombrossman wrote:
| Thanks and good point.
| [deleted]
| w0mbat wrote:
| Amazingly paranoid post about what is obviously a car alarm.
| csilverman wrote:
| Obvious? I wouldn't have known what the hell that was. Going by
| the comments, it looks like a lot of other folks weren't sure
| what it was either.
|
| Don't be so quick to put other people down. It's not good to
| have that kind of thing in a community.
| chrsig wrote:
| not a car person here: what make it obvious that it's a car
| alarm?
| burrows wrote:
| What about the guys who thought it was obviously a remote
| starter?
| throwaway742 wrote:
| It's an aftermarket car alarm and the button is the valet button.
| Pretty stupid to install one in such a new car as the car itself
| likely has better security than the alarm (exception of
| KIA/Hyndai).
| somenewaccount1 wrote:
| I'm guessing it's remote ignition, triggered by a fob key. Not
| all that suspicious really
| dapids wrote:
| I've seen this quite a bit from dealerships that purchase rental
| vehicles from suppliers after they've become out of date, or the
| rental company wants to offload them. The rental company won't
| bother removing the tracking/remote start bundle, and the dealer
| will happily sell it none the wiser, or worse, as a added
| feature.
| xwowsersx wrote:
| Wow. I can't help you identify the device, but curious if you
| have any ideas as to who might've installed this. Did your car
| have a previous owner?
| duxup wrote:
| I've seen people find tracking devices on former rental cars.
| jeffbee wrote:
| New car, bought from dealer, who swear they did not install it
| and are blaming another dealer from whom they acquired the
| vehicle.
|
| As far as the dealer goes I intend to make a lot of over-the-
| top demands and threats until they replace the wiring with all-
| new OEM parts and a lifetime warranty, but I think I'll start
| from just pointing to California Penal Code 637.7, demanding a
| completely new vehicle, and seeing what happens.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| Did you finance it?
|
| Found this: https://thriveglobal.com/stories/drivers-need-to-
| be-aware-th...
|
| But you'd think it'd be more clearly a GPS device.
| nkozyra wrote:
| My Honda dealer back when I had crummy credit "included" a
| gps but it was never explained why and I tried to say I
| wasn't really interested. Somehow I ended up agreeing,
| likely due to some interest rate bait and switch as
| referenced elsewhere.
|
| They couldn't "install" it there so I drove off the lot.
| They started calling the next week to schedule the
| installation and I wasn't very eager to go quickly. It
| became apparent they really wanted this installed and
| eventually bothered me enough that I acquiesced.
|
| This brought no gps functionality to the car itself so I
| quickly realized this was because I had ~ 610 FICO and they
| expected to repo the thing at some point.
|
| I paid it off but never bothered to remove it and the whole
| thing really bugged me. Nobody mentioned anything the last
| time I bought a car with an 800+ FICO so this is either for
| bad credit buyers or they just do it without asking now.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Have you pulled a Carfax report for the vehicle? What's the
| title history look like?
| lisper wrote:
| > I think I'll start from just pointing to California Penal
| Code 637.7
|
| I would strongly advise not doing that until you can prove
| that this was in fact a tracking device. I think a remote
| start/cutoff is much more likely, c.f.:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32040472
| gjs278 wrote:
| kube-system wrote:
| You're better off just disconnecting it than getting new
| wiring. Wiring harness replacements are notorious for
| requiring obscene amounts of interior disassembly, and you
| might just end up with annoying squeaks and rattles.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Depending on the car it may not even be possible, some
| Volvos for instance are notorious for being complete write
| offs if the wiring loom is faulty because it ends up being
| sandwiched in between the bottom shell plates prior to
| welding and there is simply no good way to replace it
| without wrecking the car in the process.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _New car, bought from dealer, who swear they did not install
| it and are blaming another dealer from whom they acquired the
| vehicle._
|
| It's possible. Something like that happened with my wife's
| car. We only found out about the tracking device when they
| sent us a bill in the mail to activate the tracking service.
| nullfield wrote:
| I encourage heavy demands, and talking with an attorney if
| they so much as twitch about it. "All the warning lights on"
| in a brand new car is a special hell.
|
| Then, regardless, perhaps file a complaint with the
| appropriate state agency # they're probably quite interested
| in what a prior dealer might've done...
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| > New car, bought from dealer
|
| Call the automakers regional representative.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| Did they (or will they) tell you who the other dealer is? If
| they won't, then maybe the "other dealer" is a fiction to try
| to make you stop blaming them.
|
| (I would expect that they would be reluctant to name another
| dealer that was actually innocent, knowing that it could turn
| into a libel lawsuit.)
| thrdbndndn wrote:
| Warning: all photos shot by Apple iPhone SE in your gist have GPS
| info.
|
| So.. yeah, this post may expose your location better than this
| device.
| mdp2021 wrote:
| Hint that suggests a "world" where people keep the GPS
| connection on as standard practice. Which is perplexing on so
| many levels, not last that the GPS is one of the most energy
| costly services I know - consideration relevant between impact
| on battery life and general "keeping the lights on and the
| engine running when away".
| thrdbndndn wrote:
| They mostly don't really use actual GPS. Instead they use
| AGPS [1] tech that uses nearby hotspots, cellar signal
| triangulation etc. to get your location.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
| mdp2021 wrote:
| And can you disable it when unneeded (i.e. "99%" of the
| time) - like you would with GPS (not only because of
| consumption)?
|
| According to the provided page, Assisted GNSS only works
| through an Internet connection - to connect to servers that
| provide cached GPS data. Triangulation comes from other
| technologies.
| [deleted]
| mutant wrote:
| I've heard of banks, and/or leasing agents install things so they
| can repo the vehicle even if it's not at a registered location.
| sircastor wrote:
| I know some lower-end dealerships will install remote disable
| components on vehicles to disable in event of non-payment. This
| happened to a friend of mine. I don't know if it goes as far as
| to report GPS coordinates.
| judge2020 wrote:
| Utilizing GPS for the repossession tracking has been a thing
| since at least 2012 https://youtu.be/npw4G1DOqaI
| autotech wrote:
| I'm a technician at a dealership, I can think of a couple of
| possibilities. First off, I think it's an add-on remote start
| module. It's possible that a different customer wanted one
| installed and then the deal fell through. Or they got the stock
| numbers mixed up and the tech installed it on the wrong car. That
| would explain no paperwork associated with the install. It could
| have been a "dealer trade" where your dealer trucked a car in
| from a different dealer. It's not a huge deal, rip that stuff out
| and restore the stock wiring. We get 1 - 2 hours labor for that.
| It's a cakewalk.
| [deleted]
| avalys wrote:
| So, long story short, it's not a tracking device, it's an
| aftermarket alarm system?
|
| Guess what folks: with few exceptions, no one cares about
| tracking you. Enough with the paranoia already.
| pixl97 wrote:
| > with few exceptions, no one cares about tracking you.
|
| HN is one of those places with a higher than average number of
| people that groups would be interested in tracking.
| chrsig wrote:
| what's leading you to that conclusion?
| paulgb wrote:
| Although this does appear to be an alarm system, there are
| several links in these comments to evidence of dealers using
| tracking devices on financed vehicles. It's not inconceivable
| that one of these devices could end up on a vehicle bought
| outright.
| andai wrote:
| Damn, is that legal?
| xeromal wrote:
| Yeah, and this thing probably didn't appear overnight. It's
| probably always been there since he's had the car.
| voganmother42 wrote:
| Tracking has gotten trivial, airtags are being used this way
| pretty regularly.
|
| Try respawning as a woman and see how far this few exceptions
| attitude gets you?
| avalys wrote:
| The author of the linked post is not a woman.
| voganmother42 wrote:
| "Guess what folks: with few exceptions, no one cares about
| tracking you. Enough with the paranoia already."
|
| Few exceptions: Like you know, being one of the 49.6% of
| people...
| aspectmin wrote:
| Ahh. Looks familiar. A dealer in the PNW installed one of these
| (without our knowledge) in a Honda CRV we purchased. Something
| about anti theft and vehicle recovery by finance, for all the
| cars on their lot.
|
| The car had all sorts of crazy power problems. Smart display
| would randomly crash, interior lights wouldn't work, just...
| flakey.
|
| Called the dealer and demanded they remove this. Electrical
| problems went away instantly.
|
| Super frustrating.
| sgtnoodle wrote:
| They put them in so that they can use a single key fob to open
| up all the cars in the lot. There's a socket that accepts a
| module. When they sell the car, they pop out their key fob
| module and pop in the "security system" blinking LED module and
| try to upsell you $1K for the privilege of having your wire
| harness butchered.
| fortran77 wrote:
| This is the most accurate answer in this thread. Toyota
| dealers in Northern California did this to me twice on new
| cars. (A third party autosound guy removed it and fixed the
| harness for me)
|
| Even though we always pay in full for cars, the dealer has
| you talk to the finance guy who will try to sell you useless
| addons like undercoating and an "alarm system" which has
| already been butchered into the car by the dealer. (If you
| buy it they would stick a key module with a blinking red
| light under the dash somewhere, but most of the circuit is
| already there.)
| toast0 wrote:
| They also like to install brake light flashers, and pull
| them out if you object. So annoying.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| "Brake light flashers"?
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| https://www.customled.com/collections/brake-light-
| flashers-a...
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| That's pretty wild that this is sold as aftermarket. This
| is baked into VAG & BMW car products for at least the
| last 12 years, and it was on my 2015 S1000XR, but it'll
| only activate under hard braking scenarios. I don't know
| if i'd want this to activate for every brake press, at
| least here in the UK i've gotten used to the idea
| flashing brake lights = car ahead is braking very hard.
| closewith wrote:
| Flashing brake lights in certain circumstances are
| required in the EU ( _Uniform provisions concerning the
| approval of vehicles with regard to the installation of
| lighting and light-signalling devices 2016 /1723_),
| although the linked brake light flashers seem to be
| unlawful as they flash on onset of braking rather than
| extreme braking force.
| Gordonjcp wrote:
| I've never seen flashing brake lights, but indicators
| flash on very hard braking. It first showed up on the
| first-gen Citroen C5, and was copied by everyone else
| after that. On the C5, it was part of the "emergency
| brake assist", which would basically work out that if you
| were doing an emergency stop, you really wanted to throw
| out the anchors and dump all the hydraulic pressure into
| the brakes.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Ahh you're right - it's hazards that flash, it's not the
| brake lights.
|
| OT: I was wondering if you were gordonjcp of scotlug fame
| (i don't expect you'd remember me, i used to attend / was
| briefly active circa 2002-2004) but the mention of
| Citroen sealed it :-) hope you're well!
| rightbyte wrote:
| > useless addons like undercoating
|
| Bad example really. Depending on car age that might be
| insane value.
|
| If people treated their cars like boats the car bodies
| would last for 30 years easely. Take it up once a year and
| paint the belly ...
| fortran77 wrote:
| On a new car? No. In fact the Toyota owner's manual
| warned against after-market undercoatings. The dealer was
| trying to do something that the manufacturer warned
| against.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Ok ye not worth it the first 6-10 years or what ever it
| takes until the original coat gets bad.
| driverdan wrote:
| Dealer undercoatings are a scam. They are significantly
| overpriced. You can get it done elsewhere for much less
| or do it yourself.
| rightbyte wrote:
| Oh ok. I assume they entomb dirt and rust in the coating
| to keep costs down? Or do it when it is not needed?
|
| I just wanted to defend the awesome concept of "painting"
| the belly of cars.
| chaz6 wrote:
| That sounds like something that would invalidate an insurance
| policy and exposes the dealer to all sorts of liability.
| torginus wrote:
| _Anti theft_ and _Vehicle recovery_ look strange next to each
| other.
| fargle wrote:
| Previous discussion of another device from the same crappy
| vendor:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30833566
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30833566#30838294
|
| I discovered it when my new car started having the same issues
| you saw.
|
| NOTE: it's somewhere between a scam and a crappy business
| practice. Here in southern california it's by no means only
| used cars or shady financing. The dealers install them on all
| the cars to keep track of their own inventory. Then they try to
| sell it to you as a kind of lojack for $$$$. If you are smart
| and decline, they just deactivate the unit (stop paying for the
| service), but do you think that they remove it? or repair the
| wiring?
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| > A dealer in the PNW installed one of these (without our
| knowledge) in a Honda CRV we purchased
|
| Why do I get the feeling that If i did that to the car I sold
| privately, I would be in jail really fast?
| YuccaGloriosa wrote:
| Garage door opener? Odometer modifier? Remote kill switch?
| TravisLS wrote:
| r/whatisthisthing might be your friend here
| jeanlucas wrote:
| Indeed, there's a larger community over there.
| zbird wrote:
| Not a car hacker but:
|
| > The device uses the car's cellular data peripheral to send this
| information somewhere.
|
| Maybe somebody can find what that somewhere is, or help with how
| to go about that.
| josephcsible wrote:
| The second picture at https://www.ramforum.com/threads/what-is-
| this.187308/post-26... is rather concerning to me. Does this
| thing being installed irreversibly damage the car in some way,
| such that it will never be drivable again if you fully remove it,
| so if you don't want it anymore, you need to keep it forever
| anyway, just with their "de-activation module" inserted?
| johnnyo wrote:
| Could it possibly be some sort of aftermarket Remote Start?
|
| That's not a tracking device, and those are pretty common
| aftermarket additions.
| contravariant wrote:
| > Car starts and runs without it, but every warning light on
| the dashboard comes on.
|
| Yeah, the simplest explanation is still that it is supposed to
| be there, but has been spliced in there to save some time and
| has an as of yet unknown purpose.
| _Microft wrote:
| Just in case you want to look at the transmission with an RTL-SDR
| or something like that: it transmits on 433.92MHz for an an
| external reference of 6.7458MHz. It's on page 8 of the CY800
| datasheet.
| pdq wrote:
| If you have a loan on the car, it's quite possible the lender or
| the dealer installed it.
|
| You can search YouTube for repo tracking devices.
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| Where'd you buy it? If from loanshark used car lot, it's probably
| a remote shutoff to be used if you miss payments.
| mmastrac wrote:
| Looks like a crappy remote starter honestly. Those things butcher
| the wiring. You'd find something to bypass the ignition lock
| somewhere on the canbus network as well, I wager.
| ktm5j wrote:
| You could get some cheapo usb data logger and use sigrock to try
| and catch/decode whatever is being sent over the CAN bus! Would
| be fun to see!
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| This is probably to aid repossession, I saw similar discussions
| on jalopnik which means it was on Reddit cars inevitably
| userbinator wrote:
| _When I got home I looked under the dash and straight away I
| could see someone other than Honda had been in here. The first
| thing I saw was this surface-mounted switch that doesn 't belong
| there._
|
| Does anyone else find it odd that he just bought a car and
| effectively started using it without going over it thoroughly and
| familiarising himself with what controls it contains? Then again,
| my experience has been with far older and simpler vehicles, so
| perhaps newer ones are so complex that people have given up
| spending any time to become acquainted with them.
| sokoloff wrote:
| You acquaint yourself with the underside of the dash of a new-
| to-you car before driving it?
|
| I'm quite interested in cars (do all the repairs in our
| household except body, paint, and tires) and I've never looked
| under the dash before driving off, unless I was attaching a
| scan tool on a used car I was buying.
| userbinator wrote:
| Not before, but certainly after --- and certainly some models
| have controls like the hood release as well as adjustments
| for the steering wheel and pedal position there.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Ha, well blame me for that I guess, but none of this stuff is
| visible from a normal seated position. You have to crawl under
| the steering wheel to see any of it.
|
| When buying a factory-new car I do not ordinarily rip off the
| dashboard trim panels to see if the wiring has been tampered
| with.
| ineedasername wrote:
| No, this was not in a location you would see during normal end-
| user operation of the car given that most users will never do
| much more than wash the car and refill fluids. Neither is it
| _expected_ behavior by an official dealership to install
| undisclosed components. Especially when the salesperson will
| (in my experience) do a pretty thorough tour of the car, under
| the hood, obscure storage compartments etc, and the aftermarket
| component in this post would not have been in a locations
| reviewed as part of that.
|
| If this was a desktop computer I certainly would expect even a
| moderately knowledgeable user to open a computer direct for the
| manufacturer or retailer before using it to see if there were
| unauthorized components present.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Do you literally crawl under the steering wheel of a car before
| you drive it? Why?
| avalys wrote:
| No, I don't find it odd. All the critical controls are in
| basically the same place in every car. Steering wheel, pedals,
| turn signals, etc. The rest I can figure out as needed. No need
| to study in advance.
| ineedasername wrote:
| It's part of a new public relations & civic service initiative
| offered by the NSA. If you forget where you parked your car all
| you have to do is whisper near your phone (Even if it's off!)
| "Hey, NSA guys, where's my car?"
|
| They'll honk the horn and, if necessary, send a micro drone to
| your location that you can follow to it if it's too far away to
| hear the horn or you're hearing impaired.
| q1w2 wrote:
| willcipriano wrote:
| First hit on DDG for "PL884-200" is a asset tracker:
| https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22PL884-200%22&t=fpas&ia=web
|
| Perhaps this is a part of one of those units? They have "hard
| wired" as a option on the site, but it's greyed out.
|
| Speculation: the site used to talk about a PL884-200 hardwire kit
| but they have since stopped selling it.
| wildrhythms wrote:
| That 'first hit' (to the logistimatics result) appears to not
| contain the string 'PL884-200' anywhere on the page.
| willcipriano wrote:
| That's what my speciation covers. At some point the search
| engine decided that page is a good result for that string,
| the content may have shifted since then as it currently
| isn't, or perhaps someone is back linking to it with
| "PL884-200" in the href? Either way it's something a dealer
| would add after market to a car and it has some connection to
| PL884-200.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| This is probably to aid repossession, I saw similar discussions
| on jalopnik which means it was on Reddit cars inevitably
|
| Dealers suck, I know everyone hates Tesla but they showed the
| path to getting rid of dealers
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-07-10 23:02 UTC)