[HN Gopher] EU moving closer to Facebook ban
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       EU moving closer to Facebook ban
        
       Author : AdriaanvRossum
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2022-07-07 21:37 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.simpleanalytics.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.simpleanalytics.com)
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | A little bit off-topic: Do people here satisfied with DuckDuckGo?
        
         | pumkesjaan wrote:
         | Pretty much yeah, sometimes I feel its a bit off but not going
         | back to Google or Bing
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | DuckDuckGo is still (using) _' Bing'_ but using privacy as a
           | meaningless buzzword.
        
           | sylware wrote:
           | duckduckgo is making money using microsoft online
           | advertisment company and mostly using bing and it runs on
           | azur... plz guys...
        
         | lemoncookiechip wrote:
         | I use DDG as my primary search engine, but satisfied wouldn't
         | be how I would describe myself, because even at it's worse,
         | Google is still better than all the competition, and I find
         | myself using !g a lot.
         | 
         | DDG, Yandex, Bing, and other indie search engines just don't
         | seem to have the broad range of Google for a lot of obscure
         | searches. It probably doesn't help that a lot of information
         | nowadays is behind places like Discord servers and other random
         | blockades.
         | 
         | EDIT: And yes, Google UI and functionalities are getting worse
         | and worse, but the their search results are still the best
         | (even if you have to scroll down).
        
         | ratww wrote:
         | Google also hasn't been working too well for me lately, so
         | yeah.
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | nah, Facebook is never going to literally go offline as it would
       | be too disruptive, but it'll hopefully accelerate the push
       | towards processing all European user data on the continent
       | itself.
       | 
       | The lesson from this should be that regulation should be
       | proactive. Privacy frameworks and safeguards to make sure EU
       | citizens have EU protections ought to have been in place 10 years
       | ago when these platforms were going global.
        
         | tiernano wrote:
         | Would this technically mean that any eu Facebook user is not
         | visible to us users?
        
           | ceeplusplus wrote:
           | More likely you have to connect to EU servers from the US to
           | view EU users. But this is not really any more complex than
           | adding another sharding split. Since model weights and
           | embeddings are widely considered to not be user data either
           | (they are derivative works) I don't think the EU's
           | requirements have any real impact to privacy or FB's ability
           | to operate.
           | 
           | All this regulation will only entrench the big players who
           | can afford expensive software engineers to run globally
           | distributed systems that respect privacy regulations. You
           | can't just spin up some servers in us-east-1 and focus on
           | building your app now. Your data is still getting vacuumed
           | up, just on the EU continent instead of in a US datacenter.
           | But NSA/Five Eyes has everywhere wiretapped anyways so your
           | data is equally as unsafe as it would be in a US datacenter.
        
             | rdxm wrote:
        
       | Arrezz wrote:
       | I honestly hope that Facebook is banned so that all the events
       | and organizational stuff can go to a more open and honest
       | platform.
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | What FB products though? WhatsApp?
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | I think a lot of this discussion, ignores geopolitics.
       | 
       | If the EU really causes serious pain to the likes of
       | Facebook/Google all that money spent on lobbying will come into
       | play. Especially now, the US holds a lot of cards with respect to
       | the EU, especially Germany.
       | 
       | My guess is that this issue will resolve with an agreement with
       | some cosmetic changes, but will still, in actuality, allow the US
       | to get at the data it wants.
        
         | nivenkos wrote:
         | Yeah, the EU has pretty much no competing companies unlike
         | Russia + China.
         | 
         | And it is now completely reliant on the US for LNG imports,
         | meanwhile the Euro is collapsing since it has to be sold en
         | masse for USD for those imports, and also for Rubles for
         | Russian gas now that Russia only accepts Ruble payments.
         | 
         | Turkey is also on the verge of complete collapse and is
         | currently holding over ten million refugees for the EU.
         | 
         | This winter through next spring looks like it will be a
         | complete disaster.
        
       | the_duke wrote:
       | The amusing thing is: Schrems2 basically established that any US
       | based company storing EU citizen data is not allowed because US
       | agencies have access without any due process, even if the data is
       | stored in the EU.
       | 
       | It's just that the entire industry has decided to ignore the
       | implications and go on like that ruling never happened.
       | 
       | Well, almost. There is a serious effort by some companies to move
       | off of AWS/GC/Azure and various other SaaS services.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | European Microsoft Azure operates as an independent German
         | entity, or was some time ago at least.
        
           | the_duke wrote:
           | As far as I know they initially essentialy leased out the
           | technology to an independent operator, but stopped doing that
           | quite a while ago. No hard source to point to tough.
        
             | someweirdperson wrote:
             | Deutsche Telekom. I also remember it being stopped, but
             | looks like it has been revived.
        
             | hobos_delight wrote:
             | This was winding down about 12 months ago, unsure of the
             | current status of it.
             | 
             | It's the same model they use for operating in China.
             | 
             | From an operational perspective this makes things very hard
             | - as you don't actually get access to the services - you
             | need to run an operator from the independent company
             | through the troubleshooting / mitigation for any incident.
        
           | AdriaanvRossum wrote:
           | Why don't they all do that? They have EU "businesses" for tax
           | reasons already. So not starting it for privacy reasons (and
           | no money reasons) as well?
        
       | pessimizer wrote:
       | This would be a good move for the EU. If they faithfully clone a
       | competitor, especially one more utility-focused (i.e. taking
       | public funding) than marketing-focused, Americans would ditch
       | facebook faster than people left Digg.
       | 
       | I have doubts about the EU's ability to execute on that, but all
       | they need to do is give people the exact same shit without the
       | contamination of Meta, and make data import from facebook
       | seamless.
        
         | dataking wrote:
         | France and Germany tried their hand at a publicly funded Google
         | (search engine) competitor [0]. It is also worth reading up on
         | EU projects such as Galileo and Gaia-X. If history is any
         | guide, it would not likely go according to plan.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaero
        
       | lemoncookiechip wrote:
       | I doubt this would end well for the EU if it actually got banned.
       | Social media platforms like FB, Instagram, TikTok..., are too
       | ingrained in people's daily lives for them to just accept it
       | without causing a massive backlash for politicians (who likely
       | also use it, as well as their families).
       | 
       | Not to mention WhatsApp is used by a lot of mid-sized companies
       | as a method of rapid communication (for whatever weird reason),
       | as well as small local businesses that rely on it to directly
       | communicate with their customers (the same type that uses gmail
       | for businesses purposes). And just used in general by everyone is
       | most of the EU region.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | "Without a massive backlash?"
         | 
         | I'd actually be surprised if this was true.
         | 
         | I'm probably addicted to scrolling social media. I'm tired of
         | it. If it was forcibly removed from my life and there was no
         | social pressure for me to use it. I'd be happy.
         | 
         | I'm sure I'm not alone.
        
           | unicornporn wrote:
           | You're not. :)
        
         | difosfor wrote:
         | I don't know.. I'd hope enough of us value their privacy to be
         | able to support this. I'd sooner expect Facebook to give in and
         | just process their European data in Europe.
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | Probably depends on where.
         | 
         | Here in Germany I suspect it would be mostly met with shrugs
         | and "good riddance". Sure there would be some teenage tears,
         | but that's to be expected.
         | 
         | >Not to mention WhatsApp is used by a lot of mid-sized
         | companies as a method of rapid communication
         | 
         | They'll move to something else within a day, while regular
         | people will need two.
         | 
         | All this stuff is easy and fast to replace - and it _will_ be
         | replaced almost literally over night. It has happened to
         | messaging services and social networks in the past, and it will
         | again. MSN and ICQ disappeared incredibly fast, as did social
         | networks like schulerVZ /studiVZ/meinVZ in Germany.
        
       | nequo wrote:
       | It's already banned around here.                 $ grep facebook
       | /etc/hosts       127.0.0.1 facebook.com www.facebook.com       $
        
       | AdriaanvRossum wrote:
       | Would it ever come that far?
        
         | frouge wrote:
         | Fingers crossed!
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-07 23:01 UTC)