[HN Gopher] 4th Gen KDE Slimbook - Linux Ultrabook with an AMD R...
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       4th Gen KDE Slimbook - Linux Ultrabook with an AMD Ryzen 7 5700U
        
       Author : jrepinc
       Score  : 308 points
       Date   : 2022-07-07 08:44 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kde.slimbook.es)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kde.slimbook.es)
        
       | tlhunter wrote:
       | I love KDE. I've used it as my daily driver for several years
       | now. Despite having so many features it's surprisingly
       | lightweight on the resources. I've used it on everything from
       | beefy Lenovo T- series to little netbooks that I would otherwise
       | run OpenBox on.
       | 
       | KDE Neon was really buggy when I tried the last LTS. Lots of
       | programs had theming issues. The Kubuntu LTS, on the other hand,
       | left me with a much smoother experience. Neither are perfect,
       | sadly.
       | 
       | A core issue with KDE is that of theme installation (Cursors,
       | Window Decorations, etc.) KDE ships with utilities to discover,
       | download, and install theme components. While using Kubuntu,
       | about 25% of the time, I find that a given theme is just
       | impossible to install. Usually it'll be a network error or
       | sometimes the downloaded package seems broken. With Neon, I had a
       | 100% failure rate. Even once you do get a theme installed, it
       | usually looks nothing like the preview. Theme developers often
       | end up relying on third party tools, usually around compositing /
       | GPU rendering. These tools are difficult to install and don't
       | seem to work with all hardware.
       | 
       | The Slimbook ships with Neon. Personally, I'd replace it with
       | Kubuntu.
       | 
       | Of course, there are other distros available where KDE can be
       | installed in. In my experience, the KDE-first distros provide a
       | smoother UX than others. It's as if all the KDE apps play better
       | together when an OS comes with them all bundled in together than
       | if you choose to piecemeal install them.
        
       | nicolas_t wrote:
       | They block any connections from HK so I'm not allowed to access
       | the site. The number of sites blocking any connections from
       | certain countries like Hong Kong as increased lately, it's
       | becoming rather frustrating and I can't really see the reasoning
       | behind it.
        
         | bloopernova wrote:
         | In my experience, China and Russia get blocked by many
         | corporations' web application firewalls (WAFs) or other
         | firewalls. You may be caught by that restriction.
        
         | triknomeister wrote:
         | The number of spam connections emerging from China and Russia
         | are huge. For small firms who might not have the expertise or
         | the budget to host things on CloudFlare, wholesale blocking off
         | IP addresses from the two countries results in almost 100%
         | decrease in spam.
         | 
         | I have a VPS which I maintain for myself to experiment with
         | different services, and I do the same. The number of spam
         | attempt to connect on my ssh port went down from around 10k per
         | day to 1 per week.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | Yup, for all my clients it is Russia, China, Brazil, Vietnam.
           | 
           | It's all floods, spam, hacks, bots, malware, with zero market
           | for my clients. All downside, zero upside in accepting any
           | traffic from those places.
        
         | philliphaydon wrote:
         | I'm in Taiwan and am also blocked. What did Taiwan do wrong?
        
           | bmacho wrote:
           | It's strange, clicking the "International websites"[0] at the
           | bottom right, they explicitly state that they'd allow calling
           | the Mandarin version Taiwan instead of China, if the
           | translator wanted.
           | 
           | There is a public mail list[1][2] of the webmasters at the
           | bottom of the page as well, if you want to talk them.
           | 
           | [0] : https://kde.org/support/international/
           | 
           | [1] : mailto://kde-www@kde.org
           | 
           | [2] : https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/kde-www/
        
           | ezekiel11 wrote:
           | Nothing, the vendors can block/choose where they want to
           | advertise their products in.
        
         | Silica6149 wrote:
         | Is VPN usage not common in HK as it in in China?
        
       | IYasha wrote:
       | > KDE Slimbook 4 > The most popular HTML, CSS, and JS library in
       | the world. What??
        
         | srevinsaju wrote:
         | looks like KDE Slimbook uses bootstrap for the website :P
        
       | jokethrowaway wrote:
       | Incredible to see Wayland on a laptop out of the box, just 13
       | years after their first release
        
       | kogepathic wrote:
       | The Ryzen 7 5700U is Zen2 based: https://www.cpu-
       | world.com/CPUs/Zen/AMD-Ryzen%207%20Mobile%20...
       | 
       | Not that great a deal when Zen3 based notebooks (5400/5600/5800U)
       | have been out for over a year already.
       | 
       | It is baffling to me why AMD chose to have the odd-numbered 5000
       | series (5300/5500/5700) with Zen2, and the even-numbered 5000
       | with Zen3.
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | In the 80's the IEEE determined that CPU part designations must
         | be sociopathic or manufacturers would be heavily fined.
        
           | Wohlf wrote:
           | I don't think anything can top how bad GPU naming from the
           | 2000s was.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | > It is baffling to me why AMD chose to have the odd-numbered
         | 5000 series (5300/5500/5700) with Zen2, and the even-numbered
         | 5000 with Zen3.
         | 
         | Oh no, it's actually even worse than that.
         | 
         | 5300U/5500U/5700U are Zen 2 (Lucienne, Renoir Refresh).
         | 
         | 5300G/5400U/5700G/5700H are Zen 3 (Cezanne).
         | 
         | I find it remarkable how AMD started a completely new, fairly
         | sane naming scheme from scratch and screwed it completely up
         | within two generations (Remember 3200G/3400G? Pepperidge Farm
         | remembers).
        
       | kiwijamo wrote:
       | Interesting that they're building hardware specifically for KDE.
       | Can't be a large market for that. As a GNOME user I love the look
       | of the hardware but find it strange they are not simply
       | supporting one of the common Linux distros and allowing users
       | their choice of desktop environment.
        
         | krageon wrote:
         | More importantly the keyboard is Spanish by default and cannot
         | be changed to a US layout - only the weird localised layouts
         | that (almost) nobody likes. That's easily the weirdest thing
         | about this store for me.
        
           | JaumeGreen wrote:
           | On the US layout it says "Agotado", which means they have run
           | out of them.
           | 
           | BTW, almost no one in US may like those layouts, but for each
           | of the speakers of those languages they are quite important.
        
             | krageon wrote:
             | I disagree. Most people do fine with US-intl keyboards,
             | perhaps with extensions to specific keys such as alt gr to
             | type a few dedicated diacritics or other altered letters.
             | The trouble with regional keyboards is that they frequently
             | move special characters around for very little actual
             | reason (and that isn't saying anything about the whole
             | AZERTY thing, which is incomprehensible).
        
               | fmoralesc wrote:
               | AZERTY is plainly the worst.
        
             | jacereda wrote:
             | Try again, looks like they fixed the page.
        
           | nixcraft wrote:
           | You need to see the laptop page and scroll down to get a
           | Keyboard section. Now you can select en-US
           | https://slimbook.es/en/store/slimbook-kde/kde-
           | slimbook-16-co... I think folks outside the EU zone need to
           | pay customs duty on imports. So, if you are in the US, go for
           | System 76 (AMD/Intel), HP Dev One (AMD), or Dell Dev Edition
           | XPS (Intel).
        
             | krageon wrote:
             | Those keyboards were listed as out of stock when I looked.
             | Perhaps this has changed in the meantime.
        
           | boopmaster wrote:
           | https://slimbook.es/en/us
           | 
           | Good callout. The about page says they are based in Spain +
           | the prices are in Euros.
        
         | Shadonototra wrote:
         | gnome is not the most popular
         | 
         | and you can install what ever you want
        
           | 3np wrote:
           | > gnome is not the most popular
           | 
           | That's a surprising statement. Got any reference?
        
             | Shadonototra wrote:
             | Among gamers it is not:
             | 
             | https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey
             | 
             | And among everyone else it is not:
             | 
             | https://distrowatch.com/
             | 
             | Ubuntu for desktop stopped being popular the day they
             | switched to Gnome3
             | 
             | It coincides with the rise of Manjaro (and Arch) wich comes
             | preinstalled with XFCE, mint also showing strong presence
        
         | circularfoyers wrote:
         | I don't think there's anything specific about the hardware for
         | KDE besides the logo. I think this is more about giving back to
         | the community, which I personally think it admirable and makes
         | me look upon Slimbook more favorably.
         | 
         | > Remember that with every purchase, KDE receives a donation
         | from Slimbook and KDE Community members get a generous
         | discount!
         | 
         | https://dot.kde.org/2022/07/06/new-kde-slimbook-4-now-availa...
        
         | allenskd wrote:
         | I feel like if KDE really wanted to build hardware specifically
         | for KDE then they would and SHOULD bring in Qt Developers (The
         | QT Company) onboard for the best optimizations of the desktop
         | environment....
        
         | elcritch wrote:
         | Because it's a laptop built in co-operation with the KDE
         | Project. It's mean to give KDE developers a "showcase" laptop
         | platform. From the original Slimbook 1 release:
         | The KDE Slimbook allows KDE to offer our users a laptop which
         | has been tested directly by KDE developers, on the exact same
         | hardware and software configuration that the users get, and
         | where any potential hardware-related issues have already been
         | ironed out before a new version of our software is shipped to
         | them.
         | 
         | https://dot.kde.org/2017/01/26/kde-and-slimbook-release-lapt...
        
       | gabereiser wrote:
       | Doesn't exactly look very slim, Bob. I'm not expecting Macbook
       | Air level slimness but we can definitely do better than this. I'm
       | not a fan of older display technology as well. A glossy 1080p
       | screen just isn't good enough anymore. I need more pixel density
       | so I can have more code up on screen (sure, at smaller perceived
       | font sizes). It's almost like all these Linux laptop makers are
       | using older, discarded, excess inventory the factories had lying
       | around.
        
         | vimsee wrote:
         | I can not really tell pixels apart with 1920 by 1080 resolution
         | on a 14 or 15.6 inch monitor as often seen on laptops. For
         | reference. I am using a 24 inch monitor (8 to 10-ish more
         | inches) with 1920 by 1080 and I am not to upset about that.
        
           | sk0g wrote:
           | And for a differing point of view, I had a hell of a time
           | finding 1440/1600p laptops with the specs I was after. Not
           | 1080p, I'd like screen real estate, and not 4K, because
           | fractional scaling on Windows is not that great. So many good
           | laptops have only 1080p options, but I ruled them out
           | instantly because it's a pixelated, rough experience.
           | 
           | Laptops are usually used with the screen much closer to you,
           | so for me at least 1440p is the lowest I'd accept.
        
           | gabereiser wrote:
           | I can tell. Edge aliasing, font crispness, pixel density. I
           | don't want 4k in 14" but we can do better than 1080p now.
        
         | tasuki wrote:
         | How slim do you want your laptop to be? Slimmer than 17mm? Why?
         | What advantage does this give you?
         | 
         | Your backpack is 30mm thick and wouldn't fit a sandwich
         | anymore? You want to slide your laptop under the door and
         | there's only a 12mm hole? You want to look hip in a cafe and
         | 17mm doesn't cut it?
         | 
         | Weight makes a difference, sure. Apart from that I care about
         | the thermals and ability to replace parts, both of which are
         | better on thicker laptops.
        
           | Silica6149 wrote:
           | In addition, this has an ethernet port. Many companies these
           | days remove the ethernet port to make their laptops thinner
           | so at least this one is doing something with the extra
           | thickness.
        
           | gabereiser wrote:
           | The advantage is not needing a backpack but just a small bag.
           | The advantage is less weight. The advantage is being able to
           | hold your laptop and a coffee without one arm feeling heavy
           | and throwing off your balance. The advantage of having a
           | laptop that feels powerful yet elegant.
           | 
           | If this laptop got rid of the Ethernet port in favor of wifi
           | only and it got rid of the hdmi and USB ports in favor of
           | USB-C, and it upgraded to at least a 1440p display, I'd
           | probably buy one as my daily driver.
           | 
           | No one can come close to what my MacBook Air can do and how
           | it feels. I wish they would. It's thin, quiet, comfortable,
           | elegant, but it's arm64 in a world of x86 and that has issues
           | still. I'd love an x86 version (even if it's a few mm thicker
           | to support a fan).
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | > If this laptop got rid of the Ethernet port in favor of
             | wifi only and it got rid of the hdmi and USB ports in favor
             | of USB-C, and it upgraded to at least a 1440p display, I'd
             | probably buy one as my daily driver.
             | 
             | And by ripping out useful features, they'd lose a different
             | part of the market. Some of us like having ports.
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | Wayland would break my workflow (evilwm does not work with it).
       | 
       | Any idea if these can run X11?
       | 
       | Separately, what about OpenBSD?
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | X11 works fine w/ the 4800H version. The 5700U uses the same
         | iGPU so I'd expect it would work fine as well.
        
       | stakkur wrote:
       | I love that there are many offerings like this.
       | 
       | But when it comes to laptops and Linux, I _never_ buy a  'good
       | Linux laptop'--I buy 'a good laptop that also runs Linux well'.
       | There's really no such thing as a 'Linux laptop' for me--I want a
       | great laptop first, Linux compatibility second.
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | I love that there are offering like this too. When I bought the
         | The main thing for me was "is this thing linux compatable", so
         | pre-installed linux was worth the extra $ for me.
         | 
         | I just couldn't bring myself to try and figure out which
         | notebooks where compatible. I couldn't figure out how to
         | determine if a machine ran linux. There are so many models and
         | subtle differences. So I ended up with a "Clevo" rebranded
         | notebook, without actually seeing it physically first.
         | 
         | Its big, oddly decent (I came from a 2015 macbook pro, which is
         | a high bar) and besides one fan grinding, its been solid. (That
         | might be on me.. but I could get a spare and replace it..) It
         | plays steam and over the 4 years I've owned it linux has gotten
         | better and better.
        
       | black_puppydog wrote:
       | Wow this looks amazing.
       | 
       | Non-soldered RAM would be a feature but I'm not sure from the
       | description... If anyone from the team is reading that: add that
       | info to the page, it's a really nice feature.
       | 
       | Non-soldered SSD is the really important one though for me.
       | 
       | And not sure why I can't select two non-samsung 2TB SSDs but
       | that's details anyhow.
        
         | Silica6149 wrote:
         | The second m.2 ssd slot can be configured to be empty so I
         | figure that at least that slot is non-soldered to allow for
         | users to put in their own ssd.
        
         | innocenat wrote:
         | The spec page said "Has 2 sockets, dual channel from 16GB".
         | 
         | Not sure if it was just recently changed though.
        
         | ognarb wrote:
         | KDE team member here: I asked internally to our contact at
         | Slimbook and both the RAM and SSD are non-soldered. This should
         | indeed be on the website, I will try to squeeze some time
         | tonight to do so :)
        
           | WASDx wrote:
           | Is the "8 _GPU_ cores " a typo?
        
           | jseliger wrote:
           | Problem is:
           | https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1542529665449226240
        
       | gkhartman wrote:
       | This seems like a very nice laptop for the cost, but for a bit
       | more you could have the framework laptop. A few hundred bucks
       | more seems like a reasonable trade for something reparable and
       | upgradable in place of a rebranded white box laptop.
        
       | allenskd wrote:
       | I may or may not be super knowledgeable on the subject have the
       | KDE Slimbook team considered going full with ARM chips instead of
       | the x86_64 processors?
       | 
       | I keep reading how ARM is more "efficient" and lower power
       | consumption altogether. I also noticed that some Windows-laptop
       | devices are shipping with ARM as well. (Windows on ARM not being
       | new if you have been following Microsoft closely)
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | Arm is mostly more efficient, but the overall performance is
         | not there apart from Apple silicon. You can get some laptops
         | with qualcomm chips and they're weak - basically an
         | underpowered netbook class. The competition is missing because
         | of a deal between qualcomm and MS for Windows laptops
         | (https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/23/22798231/microsoft-
         | qualc...). So if you want to do something serious, there's very
         | little choice.
         | 
         | Then there's the issue of running Linux on SoC where Qualcomm
         | and others are not super keen on providing open support. M1 is
         | going to get reverse engineered support for all the devices
         | first because they offer hardware people actually want.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | >You can get some laptops with qualcomm chips and they're
           | weak - basically an underpowered netbook class
           | 
           | The new Sanapdragon Thinkpads released a month ago are on par
           | with the Comet Lake i7 CPUs so I'd not write them down that
           | quickly
           | 
           | https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-
           | core-i7-10850...
        
             | StillBored wrote:
             | So, 8 core QC is beaten by a mid range 6 core Intel. Might
             | be a reasonable choice if it actually ran Linux and various
             | other things (bsd/vmware/etc) out of the box, but since it
             | doesn't, it looks overpriced unless you prioritize windows
             | and battery life or want a windows/arm machine for a
             | specific purpose.
             | 
             | AKA, on the general market it doesn't look particularly
             | competitive, even when compared with these amd 5700U's
             | which also slightly best it and are frequently found in
             | ~$600 laptops.
        
               | aposm wrote:
               | I don't think an H series i7 would be considered midrange
               | (it has a 45W TDP, and will only really be seen in
               | workstation/gaming laptops). The Qualcomm processor is
               | not terribly impressive, but being on par with a 45W i7
               | is still very promising.
        
         | 867-5309 wrote:
         | this looks like it's aimed at creative types, graphics
         | rendering and video editing on ARM would be painful
         | 
         | ARM is situated firmly within the efficient end of the
         | efficiency-power Venn, whereas this pushed towards sharing the
         | middle with powerful
        
           | allenskd wrote:
           | Out of curiosity Apple M1 Chips being ARM-based (I own a
           | m1-powered laptop) I... honestly haven't really noticed any
           | slow down while using ffmpeg but granted I don't do
           | encoding/transcoding a whole lot and my usage of editors like
           | Affinity Designer/Photos is pretty basic.
           | 
           | But on that note I feel like a budget laptop for the masses
           | with ARM-chips would be quite the spot for many people
           | include my father. he doesn't need any application just being
           | able to use a browser. ( I guess, a more open, less shady
           | Chromebook-like equivalent).
           | 
           | Well, I guess I just say this because my experience with the
           | m1 chip has been way over the top to the point I haven't
           | really noticed any slow down with docker/vscode/etc etc.
        
             | yywwbbn wrote:
             | Apple seems to be a couple of generations ahead of every
             | other ARM vendor. e.g. the Qualcomm SQ2 doesn't seem to bad
             | on paper but it's several times slower than the m1 and
             | barely competitive with the more power efficient AMD chips.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | scythe wrote:
           | Wasn't NVidia making tablet-scale ARM chips (Tegra) for a
           | while? It seems like they would know how to address this
           | niche, but somehow it hasn't materialized.
        
       | disposedtrolley wrote:
       | I'm disappointed that the three photos in the Gallery with the
       | laptop in use aren't actually showing what the screen would look
       | like IRL; they've been cleverly doctored by overlaying
       | screenshots on top of the display.
        
       | convery wrote:
       | > CPU base GHz (lower is better)
       | 
       | Ehh.. Seems like an odd inclusion when every OS will downclock
       | and put cores into idle..
        
       | StillBored wrote:
       | Does anyone have a full bios manual (and/or the bios unlock
       | sequence to get to the hidden menu's)? While this is shipped with
       | Linux, I'm not sure I trust the slimbook people to have put a lot
       | of work into assuring, particularly that it doesn't drain an
       | unnecessarily amount of battery in standby and/or that it
       | hibernates properly.
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | You can search for the keywords on PF5NU1G, BIOS, AMIBCP, EC
         | and find plenty of discussions there (w/ info on making your
         | own unlocked BIOS if you want), although the Tuxedo/Schenker
         | people have also done a fair amount of work making sure the
         | laptop works well with Linux.
         | 
         | The point general of buying from a Linux computer mfgr is to
         | get a supported machine, so if you don't trust Slimbook, you
         | can order basically the same laptop (w/ a slightly better
         | display) from Tuxedo or similar class Linux laptops from Star
         | Labs, HP, System76, or Framework.
        
       | sto_hristo wrote:
       | Something like that but in the clothes of a XPS (but not as thin
       | for the sake of thinness by sacrificing cooling). I'd eat it
       | right away.
        
       | ezekiel11 wrote:
       | a thousand euros for a linux ultrabook is a bit of a stretch.
       | there are many alternatives AND I can run both operating systems
       | via dual boot.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | darrenf wrote:
       | Similarly, since a couple of weeks ago Starlabs Systems offer
       | their Starbook with Ryzen 7 5800U:
       | 
       | https://starlabs.systems/blogs/news/the-starbook-now-comes-w...
        
       | chirau wrote:
       | Can I eventually install Windows on this machine to replace this
       | OS? Or these devices are like Macs where I can't install another
       | OS as primary.
       | 
       | If I can, what is the value preposition of 'Linux out of the box'
       | if I can install exactly the same OS from a USB?
        
         | tuetuopay wrote:
         | The assurance that all hardware works properly and is
         | compatible with Linux. It's always a gamble to buy a laptop and
         | expecting everything will work with an alternate OS.
        
         | 8K832d7tNmiQ wrote:
         | The same exact reason you've never seen an average person tried
         | to even manually upgrade windows using flash drive. Why is this
         | still need to be discussed again?
        
       | virtualritz wrote:
       | A 2k screen in 2022? I haven't used a non-HDPI laptop since a
       | decade (bought the first retina MBP at the time). I can't
       | understand how people can still use such displays today.
       | 
       | Also the CPU. It's from last year.
       | 
       | I just ordered a Xiaomi RedmiBook Pro with R7 6800H and
       | additional Nvidia GPU - 1.200EUR.
       | 
       | It will Linux just fine but with more 2022ish hardware specs. :)
       | 
       | It's also slimmer than the 'Slimbook' (14.9mm vs 16.7mm).
        
         | sk0g wrote:
         | Confusingly, 2K typically refers to 2560*1440. By that logic 4k
         | would be a resolution greater than 3840*2160 of course, so I'm
         | not sure how sound the naming convention is.
        
         | t-3 wrote:
         | Is 2k bad or good for '22? I still haven't moved past 1080p, so
         | I'm not sure how to take "can't understand how people can still
         | use such displays today."
        
           | Silica6149 wrote:
           | I think most consumers haven't experienced/don't care about
           | high DPI. Programmers on the other hand look at text all day
           | so it's understandable we prefer crisp text.
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | Wayland is usable as a daily driver?
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | Yes. Fedora and Ubuntu are both Wayland by default now. I've
         | been using Wayland for years now and it's pretty rock solid at
         | this point.
         | 
         | I occasionally see a few apps that don't seem to play nice with
         | a HiDPI/1440 mix of displays but that gets better day by day
         | and is now pretty rare for me.
        
       | GrantZvolsky wrote:
       | Does the lid open a full 180 degrees and is the hinge
       | sufficiently strong to support the lid if propped up against a
       | wall?
        
         | waynesonfire wrote:
         | Gosh I really hope so. That's how I laptop.
        
         | ognarb wrote:
         | > Does the lid open a full 180 degrees?
         | 
         | No, only around 150-160 degrees
         | 
         | > is the hinge sufficiently strong to support the lid if
         | propped up against a wall?
         | 
         | Looks strong enough to me for my 3th Gen KDE Slimbook
        
       | totallyblasted wrote:
       | I'd be interested in this if the display had a 2k or higher
       | resolution and 120 hz or higher refresh rate.
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | Here's the version you want:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/vrb1me/tux...
        
       | ruined wrote:
       | 1080p why
        
       | maverick74 wrote:
       | I wish there were more initiatives like this!
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Check also Tuxedo, and several Amazon stores in Europe do sell
         | laptops with Linux pre-installed (that is how I got my Asus
         | 1215B back in 2009).
        
           | maverick74 wrote:
           | Tuxedo!!! I had completely forgotten about Tuxedo!!!
           | 
           | Thanks for the tip :)
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | Arghhh! Why can't Linux laptop manufacturers center touchpads
       | under the keyboards anymore?
       | 
       | Also, this is lower resolution than the display I was using with
       | Linux 20 years ago.
        
         | turbinerneiter wrote:
         | Why would they?
         | 
         | Your hands are not in the center of the keyboard in the base
         | position either.
         | 
         | I'm seriously asking, I have no idea right now what the more
         | ergonomic option would be.
        
           | hedora wrote:
           | Oh, you're right. The keyboard is off center too.
           | 
           | However, the trackpad isn't centered under the base position.
           | 
           | I'd prefer the center of the screen, case, alphanumeric keys
           | and touchpad to all be along the same vertical line -- like
           | literally every laptop I have ever owned.
        
             | turbinerneiter wrote:
             | Why tough? For looks or for ergonomics?
        
             | innocenat wrote:
             | It take your comment for me to realise that the laptop I am
             | typing this on, Thinkpad Carbon X1, doesn't have its
             | trackpad on the exact center either.
             | 
             | And it doesn't bother me one bit.
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | Is there any high-end Linux laptops with matte displays?
       | Everything seems to be using glossy displays, which after being
       | used to use a matte one, is simply impossible to use, especially
       | when using the laptop outside or in a sunny room.
        
         | ensocode wrote:
         | Any of the Tuxedo laptops with Omnia display. They can be
         | configured pretty high-end.
         | https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
        
         | lysecret wrote:
         | Using newest XPS 15 and am really happy everything works (you
         | have to run newest Kernel though). I am using Ubuntu. Even the
         | Bluetooth microphone and fingerprint work !! Haha
        
         | tomclancy wrote:
         | Check out System76 laptops, they have matte displays (at least
         | my Lemur Pro does)
        
         | acomjean wrote:
         | System 76 laptops tend to have matte screens.
        
         | zbobet2012 wrote:
         | I use an ASUS ROG G14 2022 (AMD/AMD) and it works great on
         | fedora minus one bug in 5.18 and newer (I've kept it on 5.17)
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | Depends on what you mean by "Linux laptop", but Dell XPS
         | Developer Edition (comes with Ubuntu) have matte display
         | options.
        
         | bartvk wrote:
         | I have the same problem with MacBooks. I always apply a matte
         | screen protector.
         | 
         | If you live in The Netherlands: https://www.smartfolie.com/
        
           | Silica6149 wrote:
           | Macbook displays, although glossy, are generally better
           | compared to other glossy displays with respect to
           | reflections. Do you use your macbook in a particularly bright
           | room/outside?
        
             | bartvk wrote:
             | No but I've got macOS usually set to dark mode. So the
             | whole thing is really a self-created problem :-)
        
         | joss82 wrote:
         | Dell Precision 5750 has an option for matte display and it
         | rocks.
         | 
         | https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certif...
        
         | gtk40 wrote:
         | I ordered my Thinkpad X1 Carbon with a matte display, and Linux
         | pre-installed.
        
           | adultSwim wrote:
           | My Thinkpad X1 Nano also runs Linux quite well. They come
           | with Windows pre-installed but are certified for Ubuntu.
           | Qubes/Xen also runs pretty well, although Xen doesn't support
           | hibernate (only suspend).
        
         | dmos62 wrote:
         | You can apply a third-party non-reflective screen-protector.
         | 
         | My guess is that the main reason many devices have reflective
         | stock screens is that a reflective screen has higher
         | brightness, while a matte screen is dimmer. I think most will
         | agree that matte is preferable in actual use, but when looking
         | at basic screen benchmarks or when looking at a bunch of
         | screens in a hardware store, buyers are attracted to bright
         | screens.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > You can apply a third-party non-reflective screen-
           | protector.
           | 
           | This is great, I actually had no idea that existed! Very glad
           | I asked the question now.
           | 
           | How well do they work compared to displays that are already
           | matte by default? Is it basically the same thing or would it
           | introduce some imperfections?
        
             | dmos62 wrote:
             | How well it works depends on how well you've applied it.
             | I've seen some botched applications. Good news is that
             | they're cheap, so you can try again with a new one. Try
             | searching Youtube for application walkthroughs and tips.
             | 
             | There could be differences in protector quality as well,
             | I've no idea about that.
        
         | mateuszf wrote:
         | https://pl.starlabs.systems/pages/starbook
        
         | jacek wrote:
         | All Thinkpads have matte displays, including the ones with
         | touchscreens. Some have a glossy option (the ones with HDR
         | AFAIK).
        
         | ThomasGlanzmann wrote:
         | Thinkpads have matte (upto 4k) displays, very good Linux
         | support and are around 2000 USD/EUR.
        
           | owl57 wrote:
           | > very good Linux support
           | 
           | Writing this from a X1 Gen9, I wouldn't call the following
           | "very good". Not sure if it's already fixed in new firmware
           | (and couldn't google the support forum right away), but I had
           | to
           | 
           | * switch sleep mode to stop it from getting hot while asleep;
           | 
           | * disable touchpad in BIOS to stop it from spinning fans
           | while awake -- great for me because I don't like it anyway
           | and vastly prefer the trackpoint, but people not used to this
           | consistently go wtf while trying to show something on my
           | laptop.
        
             | inslee1 wrote:
             | I had some of these issues with the 5.17.x kernels but once
             | I switched to Fedora 36 and 5.18.x, and updated the BIOS,
             | the situation improved dramatically and sleep was fixed.
             | 
             | Never had the touchpad issue though.
        
             | madduci wrote:
             | I have a ThinkPad E595 with Ryzen 7 3700U and it has
             | wonderful Linux support
        
       | minimaul wrote:
       | Is there some hardware limitation of AMD Ryzen laptop processors
       | that prevents a high-res display?
       | 
       | Every time I see one of these laptops (like the recent HP linux
       | laptop, etc), I think they look really interesting except that I
       | wish they had a higher res display - I've not seen _any_ Ryzen
       | laptop with what I 'd call a premium display - something high
       | DPI.
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | This laptop is a refresh based on the Tong Fang PF5NU1G
         | chassis. Tuxedo just announced their version, the Pulse 15 Gen2
         | that has a WQHD 2560x1440 165Hz 350 nit display:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/vrb1me/tux...
         | 
         | There's no limitation for Ryzen itself, it's largely up to the
         | ODM/OEM to decide. For example, Lenovo and Asus have multiple
         | QHD/4K options for Ryzen 5000 and 6000 series (iGPU-only)
         | laptops (just do a search for Yogas, Thinkpads, Zenbook,
         | Vivobook, etc).
         | 
         | Note, certain designs might have display limitations. A couple
         | years ago, for the 1st gen PF5NU1G, Schenker tried to get a 4K
         | OLED panel to run, but failed due to PCON compatibility and
         | then sourcing/logistics issues:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/izg598/no_4koled_pa...
        
           | gigatexal wrote:
           | How's the keyboard on the Pulse 2 from someone who might be
           | very partial to loud, clickety, far travel, mechanical
           | keyboards?
           | 
           | How does Linux do with the high refresh rate display? Does it
           | destroy battery life like I imagine?
        
             | gpm wrote:
             | I don't know how high refresh rate displays affect battery
             | life, but in the worst case I imagine you could turn down
             | the refresh rate when you aren't interested in using it
             | (certainly refresh rate is tunable in X11).
        
             | lhl wrote:
             | If you want a mechanical keyboard, you should probably
             | carry your own, as even the "mechanical" keyboards on
             | laptops like the Eluktronics Mech 15 are IMO pretty
             | lackluster. The NuPhy Air 75 fits exactly over the keyboard
             | deck, btw, so that'd be my recommendation (replaced an Anne
             | Pro I was using, which felt better, but was much bulkier. A
             | Keychron low-profile might work as well, but I can't
             | confirm whether it'll sit on the deck properly or not w/o
             | having to disable the built-in keyboard.
             | 
             | In terms of the built-in keyboard feel, it's adequate. I
             | would say that it reminds me of the keyboards on
             | early-2000s Apple TiBooks. For the previous gen (and in my
             | copy as well) there were reports of slight unevenness of
             | the keyboard deck, although it was more of a curiousity
             | than an actual issue in day-to-day use.
        
           | bodge5000 wrote:
           | I've actually found it quite hard to find Ryzen 6000 laptops
           | with just an iGPU. RDNA2 would be perfect for me, you lose
           | the weight and cooling issues that come with a dGPU but still
           | have enough graphical performance to play some games.
        
             | dxhdr wrote:
             | Look at the Thinkpad T14 / T14s Gen 3. Doesn't have a high-
             | res display though...
        
               | pedrocr wrote:
               | The T14s has a 2880x1800, OLED, 500nit, wide color gamut,
               | 90hz, screen option. It's probably the best screen you
               | can get on a laptop right now:
               | 
               | https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPa
               | d_T...
               | 
               | The T14 has a 4K IPS option:
               | 
               | https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPa
               | d_T...
               | 
               | With that and USB4 the AMD Lenovos seem to be finally
               | uncorked. At this point the Intel-only X1 is suffering as
               | a supposedly top of the line laptop. The chassis is
               | slightly better and that's about its only advantage.
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | Not to say they are common, but they are out there.
             | 
             | https://www.asus.com/us/Laptops/For-
             | Home/Zenbook/Zenbook-S-1...
             | 
             | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadp/t
             | h...
        
           | minimaul wrote:
           | I've scanned through the Lenovo site as an example and I
           | can't find anything AMD with a display larger than 1920x1080
           | (at least on the UK site)...
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | In Germany Lenovo sells a Legion S7 15 with a 4k display
             | and Ryzen 7 5800H (article number 82K800GUGE). There are
             | also variants of the Yoga Slim 7 Pro 16, the IdeaPad 5 and
             | the ThinkBook 16p G2, each with a 2560x1600 display and a
             | Ryzen CPU.
        
               | saghm wrote:
               | A bit OT, but I've always found that beyond 2560x1440, I
               | can't really tell the difference on a laptop-size screen.
               | If anything, the only 4K laptop I've owned was a bit more
               | troublesome than the 1440p ones because so many
               | applications had scaling issues that I had to deal with.
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | QHD with Ryzen https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/legion-
             | laptops/legion-5...
             | 
             | There were a few other QHD Ryzen gaming laptops. Couldn't
             | find any business/workstation ones on the UK site though.
             | 
             | Similarly, the US has a 4K Ryzen gaming laptop.
             | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/legion-
             | laptops/legion...
        
               | sascha_sl wrote:
               | Solid laptops. Enough power for a portable homelab. Went
               | from a Legion 5 to a Legion 7 because I ended up liking
               | it enough to make it my main machine. Much fewer random
               | firmware bugs than AMD ThinkPads. They even do KVM GPU
               | passthrough reasonably well.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | syockit wrote:
         | I have a 4K display AMD Ryzen laptop (Asus ROG Flow X13 2021
         | edition), so yes it's actually possible. The Japanese fonts
         | look really pretty when everything is scaled 200% (to be
         | equivalent to 2K display). But I value real estate so I still
         | have everything on 100%.
         | 
         | For some reason, the 2022 edition lineup no longer offers 4K
         | display.
        
         | starptech wrote:
         | Thinkpad T14 Gen2 is shipped with (14") 4K UHD (3.840 x 2.160),
         | IPS with Dolby Vision(tm), 500 cd/m2 and Ryzen 5850U. Linux
         | certified.
        
           | minimaul wrote:
           | Hm, that's not available on Lenovo's UK store that I can find
           | :(
           | 
           | Maybe it's also a regional issue.
           | 
           | edit: or the US store? shows me a T14 Gen 2 (AMD) - Up to AMD
           | Ryzen(tm) 7 Pro 5850U Processor, Up to 14.0" FHD (1920 x
           | 1080) IPS, anti-glare, touchscreen with Privacy Guard
           | 
           | or
           | 
           | T14 Gen2 (Intel) - Up to 11th Gen Intel(r) Core(tm) i7-1185G7
           | with vPro(tm), Up to 14" UHD (3840 x 2160) IPS, anti-glare
           | with Dolby Vision(tm)
        
         | IYasha wrote:
         | Can you please explain what use hi DPI displays have in
         | general? I bought one and it was almost nothing but
         | disappointment except viewing photos. For me it concludes as
         | purely wasted computational (and electrical) power.
        
           | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
           | Fonts and GUI elements look much sharper. After going HighDPI
           | i can't go back.
        
             | usrn wrote:
             | Honestly adwaita will look like crap no matter what the
             | resolution is.
             | 
             | (And before you get upset about the Gnome dev's feelings
             | getting hurt, they've decided that this is the best theme
             | and no one should ever use anything different.)
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | That's why I use KDE, since I saw how Gnome devs treat
               | font rendering issues from the community[1]. And for some
               | reason this is the most popular linux DE. I feel like I'm
               | taking crazy pills.
               | 
               | [1] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/3787
        
               | usrn wrote:
               | You're not crazy, whatever Redhat decides eventually
               | becomes popular because that's what people get paid to
               | work with. It's very similar to the situation with
               | Windows.
               | 
               | Also, I think most desktop Linux users that care probably
               | use a small WM rather than either Gnome or KDE. Gnome
               | also gets a lot of attention because GTK is easier to
               | work with than QT.
        
               | skeletal88 wrote:
               | I care but I don't understand the craziness about tiling
               | wms, xfce etc. I like the convenience that KDE provides
               | for me.
               | 
               | To me the guys who casually always mention "btw yeah I'm
               | using this tiling wm and ..." are just smugly showing
               | off, like vegans or people who own too expensive
               | bicycles.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | Better text rendering is the main advantage. This means that
           | you can set text sizes smaller and have a lot more usable
           | screen real estate.
        
             | IYasha wrote:
             | I tried using a 4K IPS display for usual programming tasks,
             | but the usual fonts become so painfully tiny that it's just
             | unbearable (and I have almost perfect vision). Combining a
             | normal old display with modern 4K also creates lots of
             | problems. For example, I drag windows and tool boxes a lot
             | between desktops when working with code or in 3D. The
             | perfect resolution for my old-school self is now a WQHD
             | 2560*1440. Not in any "hi-dpi" sense.
        
               | RajT88 wrote:
               | It is for this reason I prefer 2 1080p monitors connected
               | to my work laptop.
               | 
               | I prefer physical size for my screen real estate as
               | opposed to jamming more onto a single display.
               | 
               | Scaling between different display sizes as you move
               | windows around doesn't work well on Windows so I also
               | prefer my laptop display to have the same resolution.
               | 
               | My wife takes a different approach: Giant, cheap 4k TV
               | with windows spread out connected to her work machine.
        
               | KptMarchewa wrote:
               | >4K IPS display
               | 
               | It's not what person above suggests. It's about something
               | like 5K display rendered in 200% resolution, so it's
               | equivalent to 1440p. Then you can have slightly downscale
               | fonts compared to "raw" 1440p since you'll still have
               | more clarity due to higher pixels per inch.
        
           | pivo wrote:
           | As others have said, smooth, crisp font rendering. I've been
           | using high DPI displays for almost 10 years now and would
           | never consider going back. Using a 1440 monitor, say, feels
           | to me like using a machine with a floppy disk: an
           | anachronism.
           | 
           | My wife though swears she cannot tell the difference and
           | doesn't care which she uses. This boggles my mind and is
           | actually a bit frustrating to me, but that's my problem.
           | 
           | So, I'm interested in if you can tell the difference but
           | don't care or if it's something else.
           | 
           | I've always used a Mac though, maybe that's the difference?
           | Never seen Linux/Windows in 4K.
        
             | windowsrookie wrote:
             | I switch back and forth between modern High DPI displays
             | and older ~1440p displays. I don't really care myself. High
             | resolution has never mattered to me.
             | 
             | I'm the same way with video tho, I can still watch 480p
             | YouTube video and it doesn't bother me at all. Whereas some
             | people I know can't stand watching 1 second of video below
             | 1080p.
        
             | zozbot234 wrote:
             | 1440p can be quite crisp if you're using pixel-perfect,
             | antialiased rendering and looking at the whole screen. Even
             | for text. Anything higher is either overkill or (most
             | often) compensating for defects in the rendering pipeline.
             | 
             | (In fact, there's a viable argument that even 1080p ought
             | to suffice, and 768p be "good enough for most uses".)
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | goosedragons wrote:
             | I don't care that much but I do notice. Most PC laptops
             | these days are 1080p and at their sizes this is generally
             | 160+ PPI which is about the same as a 27" 4K display so it
             | looks fine to me.
             | 
             | Apple also has made their text rendering look worse on non-
             | retina screens a few versions back which exacerbates the
             | problem compared to Windows and Linux.
        
           | speedgoose wrote:
           | The text looks a lot nicer, without subpixel rendering which
           | can also save computational power.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering
        
             | mikae1 wrote:
             | Anecdotally, I've used HiDPI alongside 1x res monitors
             | since 2015 now, and I can honestly say I don't care much
             | about which one I'm using for reading and writing.
             | 
             | What _does_ matter though is gray uniformity and the size
             | of the color gamut. Especially for the work I do (video and
             | photography).
        
             | IYasha wrote:
             | I always disable this crap, fine with pixels %)) OK, I
             | understand pixel interpolation is useful in printed media
             | production, but on displays... Win95 still looks great to
             | me.
        
               | atemerev wrote:
               | Well, people have different opinions about it. I
               | personally hate visible pixels with passion. I was an
               | early adopter of HiDPI displays (starting with IBM T221
               | back in 2007), and I don't understand how anybody could
               | settle for less after they see this gorgeous high
               | resolution.
        
               | Silica6149 wrote:
               | It's probably the fact that most people haven't
               | experienced it. Regular consumers think macbooks have
               | magically "better" displays than most windows laptops but
               | can't name the exact reason. But just getting a high DPI
               | laptop/monitor gets the same effect.
        
               | Legogris wrote:
               | It does make a huge difference for readability of
               | Chinese/Japanese/Korean in small sizes (e.g. comparable
               | to reading a normal book or paper).
        
               | IYasha wrote:
               | Now, that makes a good point, thank you!
        
           | hansword wrote:
           | I had an old iPad (before retina) and used it for general
           | tasks, sometimes. My newer hiDPI iPad has become my primary
           | device for everything but actual work.
           | 
           | I would never have read a book on the old iPad, I read
           | several in hiDPI. It really changes the way you read if the
           | fonts are (perceptually) as crisp as print.
        
             | hansword wrote:
             | Having said that, I still use a 1080p display for work and
             | watching video
             | 
             | So my tiny iPad has like twice as many pixels as my big
             | screen.
        
           | minimaul wrote:
           | For me, it's all about text. I spend my whole day staring at
           | text in some form - email, code, etc. A good high DPI display
           | creates a much better text shape for the same physical size
           | text on screen (and doesn't have as much of an issue with
           | trying to snap vertical text to actual pixels, etc).
           | 
           | It makes reading a lot easier for me - and vastly decreases
           | how tired I feel after a day of it.
        
           | zelos wrote:
           | Switching from 1900x1200 to a 4k monitor was night and day
           | for me. So much less eye strain by the end of the day.
        
             | mistrial9 wrote:
             | In the setup you like now, how far away is your monitor
             | from your eyes? How many pages of text do you keep open
             | typically? seen at once
        
           | ISO-morphism wrote:
           | For a programmer, screen real estate (dependent on scaling).
           | I look at 4k 100% scaling as having condensed two 1080p
           | monitors without bezels.
        
             | sk0g wrote:
             | 4k is actually exactly 4 1080p screens' worth of pixels,
             | unless you mean non-100% scaling.
        
         | virtualritz wrote:
         | Nope. See e.g. my reply here elsewhere about the Xiaomi
         | RedmiBook Pro. These are available since a while with ~240ppoi
         | screens (3.2x2k). I.e.the 2021 model already had that
         | resolution.
         | 
         | Also Huawei's MateBook laptop series has been offering AMD CPUs
         | + HDPI screens since years, afaik.
        
         | dhzhzjsbevs wrote:
         | Intel does a fair bit of exclusivity deals to prevent vendors
         | from making certain pairings. It also didn't help that amd
         | mobile CPUs were budget options for a long time. Manufacturers
         | haven't caught on to the demand yet really.
        
         | geokon wrote:
         | Matebook 16
         | 
         | Amazing laptop. I'm never going back to a small screen or a non
         | 3:2 screen
         | 
         | Very hard to source though. Had to have it shipped specially
         | from China
        
           | ClumsyPilot wrote:
           | that looks like an interesting machine, reasonably priced
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | Especially if you purchase on Taobao/VMall - then it's
             | under $1K. I think they also sell a version in Germany, but
             | the price is marked up a lot
        
           | abdusco wrote:
           | How is the serviceability? Can you swap ssd / battery?
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | nothing special in that department.. It's not a framework
             | 
             | You can see the notebookcheck review for details:
             | https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-16-AMD-
             | Review-...
             | 
             | My main concern would be procuring parts. I'd have to order
             | them over Taobao and then have them forwarded and wait a
             | while. Fingers crossed nothing comes up..
        
               | abdusco wrote:
               | Better get a battery replacement before you need it. It
               | becomes really difficult to find replacement parts after
               | a couple of years because the device is not "popular" and
               | most sellers stop keeping stock.
        
           | lhl wrote:
           | A few notes that may or may not matter to people:
           | 
           | * great res/aspect ratio, but claimed 300 nits, which is good
           | enough for most indoor usage, but not in brighter
           | environments) - that being said, Notebookcheck tested theirs
           | at 350 nits
           | 
           | * RAM is soldered so you're locked into 16GB (M.2 wifi and
           | 2280 SSD can be replaced)
           | 
           | * no USB-A ports
           | 
           | Overall though it's a pretty great laptop, can't wait to see
           | how the Ryzen 6000 version performs (and if it had a 32GB
           | version would be high on my personal shopping list).
           | 
           | NBC review for those interested:
           | https://www.notebookcheck.net/Huawei-MateBook-16-AMD-
           | Review-...
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | * no USB-A ports
             | 
             | I'm not sure what you mean. It's got two on the right side.
             | And two USB-C on the left (though one will typically be
             | used by your charger) - which seems to be unusual still..
             | 
             | 16GB hasn't been an issue so far - but it's def my number 1
             | concern. But for under $1k I can't really expect more
        
               | lhl wrote:
               | Ah, you're right, I had a different Huawei laptop page
               | open for the spec sheet. having 2 x USB-A ports is great
               | (personally, I usually have a wireless keyboard and mouse
               | dongle, so it's something I'm still concerned about).
               | 
               | If 16GB is enough then that's great. Sadly, I will
               | usually end up hitting swap even with 32GB, so getting to
               | at least 40GB (8GB+ soldered, 1 SODIMM), but preferably
               | 2xSODIMMs for 64GB ends up thinning out my options
               | considerably.
        
           | dark-star wrote:
           | I wonder what's with all the "3:2 screen" aficionados
           | recently.
           | 
           | Some years ago, a 3:4 screen was considered "bad" and
           | "unusable" and 16:9 or 16:10 was what you needed to have. Now
           | 16:9 is bad and 3:2 (pretty close to 4:3) is back in
           | business?
           | 
           | Is this just about chasing the latest fad? I mean 16:9 or
           | even 16:10 has so much horizontal space that it's perfect if
           | you do software development for example. Why is it so common
           | now to give that up for more vertical space?
        
             | geokon wrote:
             | My guess is this this is a resolution issue. When the
             | resolution was low, moving to 16:9 or 16:10 allowed you to
             | have two side-by-side windows open. Now that the pixel
             | density is higher you can make it 3:2, have two windows
             | side by side even more comfortably, and get your vertical
             | space back as well.
             | 
             | That said, you do sort of need 16 inches. Otherwise things
             | start to get too tiny and you'll want to do scaling (which
             | defeats the point..)
             | 
             | The Matebook 16 for me seems to hit the sweetspot in terms
             | of pixel density and I don't feel the need to scale
             | anything (the DPI is similar to my 1080p 13inch). So I'm
             | actually glad it's not 4K
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | I think people realized that the media-centric 16:9 doesn't
             | handle the piles of horizontal bars (titlebars, toolbars,
             | tab bars, status bars, taskbars, etc) that compose modern
             | desktop UIs all that well, particularly at traditional
             | laptop resolutions (1920x1080 and its 2x counterparts and
             | below).
             | 
             | Personally I don't need a ton of width, the most I have
             | side by side on a laptop screen are two code panes in an
             | IDE. If I need any more than that I'm docked at a desk with
             | dual 27" monitors. I would say my sweet spot is 16:10, but
             | I've not tried a 5:4 or 3:2 laptop and have never used a
             | 4:3 laptop for dev work, so I don't know if I'd find those
             | more suitable or not.
        
             | waynesonfire wrote:
             | 4:3 is not a fad, it's superior but lost out due to
             | manufacturers consolidating tv displays with monitors.
             | 
             | I guess they would like you to think it's bad since they
             | don't make them for cost savings reasons. I'd buy 4:3.
             | There are still a few niche makers for medical and
             | industrial purposes but the specs are crummy and prices
             | high relative to mainstream displays.
        
               | thereddaikon wrote:
               | I'd love to have a 4:3 laptop again. Best general use
               | display. I find it amazing how we have been forced to use
               | widescreens for so long yet our content, except for
               | movies, still doesn't fit it. Office documents can fit on
               | screen. Websites have to pad endless whitespace on the
               | sides. The list goes on. We need to return to 4:3.
        
               | ISL wrote:
               | It is my belief that wider aspect ratio displays are
               | easier to manufacture, too.
               | 
               | At a given pixel-pitch, you need fewer rows. In extremis,
               | imagine a display that is N x 1 -- much easier to limit
               | defects and handle the necessary multiplexing.
        
             | Delk wrote:
             | Back when 16:10 and 16:9 displays became common, I remember
             | they weren't received particularly fondly by many of the
             | developers I knew. Non-technical people seemed to like them
             | more. More hardcore developers rather had to somewhat
             | begrudgingly accept them.
             | 
             | Maybe the 3:2 aficionados aren't the same people who
             | started disliking 4:3 displays when widescreen became
             | popular?
        
         | bedast wrote:
         | I've seen Ryzen 5000 series laptops with premium displays. I
         | wouldn't consider 4K to be the only metric for that, though. My
         | current Ryzen 5900HS laptop (from 2021) gave me the option of a
         | 1920x1200 display or 3840x2400 at a lower refresh rate. Both
         | displays have good color support, HDR, etc, but I went for the
         | 1920x1200 display model for the smoother experience.
         | 
         | When I came out of laser eye surgery, I ended up with
         | exceptional vision. I'd have to pixel peep to see a difference
         | between those 2 display options. I would have preferred
         | something that met half way in the middle, but this DPI is fine
         | for the display size. Outside of that, I get good color
         | accuracy, good brightness with HDR, and the high refresh rate
         | with adaptive sync makes for a very smooth experience.
         | 
         | Do we not consider features like that also premium?
        
         | sudosysgen wrote:
         | None, I have an AMD Ryzen laptop with a highres display
         | (1440p), and there are with 4k displays. It's just that a
         | loooooot of laptops you're seeing are going to be rebrands of
         | these ones.
        
         | bedast wrote:
         | It depends on what you're looking for. There's been a
         | withdrawal on focusing on 4K displays in laptops. Most of them
         | exist as a marketing point, but provide no ancillary benefits.
         | 
         | One thing you might notice is "low res" displays tend to
         | support things like higher refresh rates, might have better
         | color and HDR
         | 
         | I have an ROG Flow X13 2021 with the 1980x1200 display. This
         | "low res" display supports higher refresh rates, variable
         | refresh rate, has good color and HDR support, and works quite
         | well for a 13" laptop.
        
         | oblak wrote:
         | I guess you weren't looking hard enough. I am writing this on a
         | fairly light and slim machine, equipped with Ryzen 5800 and a
         | 16:10 2560x1600 @ 120Hz display. I used to have a 14 inch model
         | with an even higher resolution at same refresh rate. Both were
         | ~1k euro, depending on exact configuration.
        
         | eertami wrote:
         | High DPI on something like a phone screen makes sense since it
         | is often used so close to the face - but are people really
         | getting this close to their computer displays?
         | 
         | For a 1080p 14" screen, and a person with 20:20 vision, you
         | would need to be closer than 50cm to the screen to be able to
         | discern any visual differences. Hackernews has lots of people
         | who like to claim they can tell the difference, but the science
         | of visual acuity is against them and they never back up these
         | claims with studies or experiments.
         | 
         | Given a blind A/B test at a normal desk viewing distance, I'm
         | doubtful any of these people would be able to pick out the
         | difference between 1080p and 4k on a screen so small.
        
           | seltzered_ wrote:
           | High DPI displays have been available for a decade, since the
           | 2012 retina macbook pro. "Science of visual acuity" aside,
           | the difference is noticeable.
           | 
           | I use a tablet pc and find it bizarre some vendors sell the m
           | with 1080p displays when it's meant to be used closer to the
           | face at be times. 2-in-1 budget laptops also have the same
           | issue when using 1080p panels
        
         | ClumsyPilot wrote:
         | everyone talking about HiDPI, but everyone seems to miss
         | display brightness. Standard displays are 200 - 300 nits,
         | woefully inadequate if you are going to use it on the balcony,
         | terrace or even near a big window. Very limiting if you open a
         | laptop and it's unreadable.
         | 
         | For the first time I splashed out on a premium 4K monitor 32",
         | and at 600 nits you forget the word glare - there is no glare
         | if the screen is brighter than the sun.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | Yes, this is crazy frustrating. The problem isn't exclusive
           | to boutique Linux laptops either, a lot of manufacturers use
           | terribly dim panels that are barely usable in a well-
           | daylight-lit room, and exacerbating it they're glossy with
           | extremely ineffective antiglare coating, which adds a thick
           | layer of glare that the dim backlight doesn't have a prayer
           | of cutting through.
           | 
           | Even expensive laptops can have this problem... I briefly
           | owned a $2k+ ASUS ROG G15 that had an otherwise nice screen
           | (15.6" 2560x1440 144hz IPS satin finish), but had a 300 nit
           | backlight which rendered all that moot except at night.
           | 
           | This is one of those things that Apple nails. The MacBooks
           | I've used for work have all had displays bright enough to
           | handle a bright room with ease with very little glare despite
           | being glossy. My Thinkpad X1 Nano also has a matte 500 nit
           | display that's quite nice.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | Which sunglasses do you code with?
        
             | jagger27 wrote:
             | My eyes can't handle the dimly lit room they once could,
             | especially not when reading code. 400 nits is a minimum for
             | me now.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | It's a gpu power consumption/battery life issue. Putting a high
         | res display in an Air clone ("ultrabook") means poor battery
         | life unless you can also make a very efficient GPU (which so
         | far only Apple has done).
         | 
         | The battery life on my 4k XPS13 is atrocious and it gets hot
         | enough to burn my thighs.
        
           | Silica6149 wrote:
           | Battery life vs display resolution is always a balancing act.
           | Even macbooks don't have 4k displays for this reason. Makes
           | me wonder why manufacturers opt to make so many 4k laptops
           | compared to 2k ones.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | 4k looks vastly better and many laptop users seldom or
             | rarely run off battery for more than an hour or so.
        
               | Silica6149 wrote:
               | While I agree that my laptop gets used plugged in most of
               | the time, it is nice for it to last a while for the
               | occasions when I'm away from an outlet (which I argue
               | would be the primary benefit of using a laptop).
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | Economies of scale. Factories are pumping out huge numbers
             | of 4K panels while the more balanced panels Apple uses are
             | likely made to order. So in most cases it's probably
             | cheaper for manufacturers to use 4K panels, despite their
             | problems.
        
         | rez9x wrote:
         | My experience has been that Linux is bad at scaling HiDPI.
         | Maybe KDE is better. In Linux-specific forums and chats, I've
         | seen many people comment that they go out of their way to buy a
         | 1080p display to avoid the scaling issues.
        
         | trynumber9 wrote:
         | Nope. Even HP sells a 13 inch 2560x1600 Ryzen laptop for about
         | $700. Asus goes even higher resolution on their 13 inch OLED at
         | 2880x1800 but it costs more.
         | 
         | But I'm not sure there is a difference between 1920 and 2560
         | for most users at 13-14 inches.
        
         | usrn wrote:
         | If I were to buy a new laptop I'd probably avoid high DPI
         | displays. I can display fonts small enough that I can't read
         | them even though the screen can resolve them on the older 1080p
         | screen my thinkpad has. All the high DPI means is extra trouble
         | and I think they know this.
        
         | sturza wrote:
         | Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Pro has 2880*1800 ~ 3k 90hz display with
         | Ryzen 5800h
        
         | jeffalyanak wrote:
         | It's not a hardware limitation, but many vendors are still
         | using AMD only in their budget SKUs and using Intel in their
         | flagships.
         | 
         | Since the AMD SKUs are aimed at a different price-point, they
         | generally don't have higher end display options.
        
         | leeoniya wrote:
         | currently on a Lenovo P14s with an excellent matte 4k, color
         | calibrated, bright display and Ryzen Pro 5850u.
         | 
         | EndeavourOS (Arch) with KDE/Plasma works great.
        
         | azangru wrote:
         | > Is there some hardware limitation of AMD Ryzen laptop
         | processors that prevents a high-res display?
         | 
         | It's probably a limitation of the company they source the
         | laptops from (Clevo?) :-)
         | 
         | The recently announced Tuxedo Pulse 2 [0] has a 1440p display;
         | and the teased Starlabs Starfighter [1] is expected to come
         | with a 4K display. Both are AMD laptops.
         | 
         | ===
         | 
         | [0] - https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-
         | Hardware/Notebooks/...
         | 
         | [1] - https://9to5linux.com/star-labs-teases-the-starfighter-
         | linux...
        
           | Schinken_ wrote:
           | I didn't even see the Gen2 release. I own the Gen1 after much
           | consideration (and very nice community management from Tom
           | over at the XMG Subreddit). I got it in December of 2021 for
           | about 600 Euros. (Great Deal).
           | 
           | I know I am very susceptible to "the new shiny" and already
           | have the itch to go for the Gen2 since it really brings some
           | amazing improvements to the table. Mainly more external
           | displays. The rest is nice to have (wouldn't have needed
           | >60Hz panel to be honest). Oh and the Gen1 USB-C charging
           | only works with a subset of all available USB-C chargers.
           | Probably some kind of incompatibility with the IC on the
           | motherboard. [1]
           | 
           | If you're thinking about getting it, I can (at least for
           | Gen1) vouch for it.
           | 
           | To clarify: Tuxedocomputers is a subsidiary(?) of
           | XMG/Schenker. Their "Pulse 15" is equivalent to Schenker's
           | "Via 15 Pro".
           | 
           | [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/jx3220/validated
           | _us...
        
             | lhl wrote:
             | I also liked that they fixed the biggest niggles w/ Gen2
             | (higher DPI display, 2 x M.2 storage, DP1.4 w/ the USB-C -
             | rare to see any OEM actually fix the shortcomings of the
             | previous verson). If it were a Ryzen 6000, I'd almost
             | definitely upgrade, however, per Tuxedo's announcement [1],
             | the 35W 5700U (Lucienne, so Zen2, not even Zen3 core)
             | basically just matches the 54W 4800H in performance - great
             | from a noise/heat/power efficiency perspective, but sadly,
             | a total sidegrade when it comes to perf.
             | 
             | "This way the 5700U reaches the already high-end
             | performance from its AMD Ryzen 7 4800H-54-watts-equipped
             | predecessor, but it comes with significantly better power
             | efficiency, delivering on-par-performance with over 30%
             | less power consumption!"
             | 
             | [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/tuxedocomputers/comments/vrb1m
             | e/tux...
             | 
             | I agree that the Gen1 was one of the best Linux laptops
             | around, and the Gen2 is an improvement in every way. My
             | original review from 2y ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/AMDLa
             | ptops/comments/hunyv6/my_mechr...
        
             | lhl wrote:
             | Also, interesting about that charging chart. I was able to
             | use basically every 65W and 100W USB-C charger I had (about
             | 5 different ones over the years) and also 4 different
             | 100W-capable batteries (Zendure SuperTank, SuperTank+,
             | Baseus Blade, and Shargeek Storm 2) w/o problems (the
             | SuperTank is listed as having issues). I wonder if some of
             | the reported incompatibilities were due to bad USB-C
             | cables...
        
           | sdwolfz wrote:
           | The Tuxedo Pulse 2 looks amazing. They really addressed all
           | of the complaints we had (purchased at the beginning of the
           | year for our company).
           | 
           | I still have minor nitpicks with it, but those pale in
           | comparison with the display port upgrade they did.
        
             | mariusor wrote:
             | For me the worst on the Pulse is the battery. Had to change
             | one after one year and the new one is losing charge at a
             | seemingly higher pace than other machines. :(
        
               | lhl wrote:
               | I have a 2y old PF5NU1G (a second run Mechrevo CODE 01)
               | as well, and the battery has decayed to ~73Wh (from a
               | 91Wh original design). The one bright side is that the
               | replacement battery, PFIDG-03-13-3S2P-0, seems to be
               | pretty cheap ($60, shipped by boat from China) if you
               | know you're going to stick to the same laptop for a
               | while...
               | https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3256803017144797.html
        
       | okp2o3ji23j wrote:
       | Linux as a desktop machine is horrible. Dozens of package
       | managers, distros, UIs, everything. Instead of creating one thing
       | right and bug-free, linux devs prefer to waste their time
       | reinventing the wheel.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Correct. Somehow, though, Linux does "everything" better than
         | any other OS I've used in the past. Relative to MacOS and
         | Windows, Linux really can be the best of both worlds. Linux
         | still plays the games that MacOS and even Windows do not. Linux
         | is still getting regular updates on my laptop from 2007. It
         | hosts my Plex server, handles the majority of my work-related
         | tasks, and generally it doesn't really complain. Having spent
         | dozens of hours working around roadblocks in MacOS and tweaking
         | Windows to _just barely_ be a dev environment, I 'm perfectly
         | happy to use Linux even if though it is total garbage, because
         | the kernel is almost undeniably better than modern NT or XNU.
         | 
         | I still think the world of Linux _desktop_ development is a
         | total disaster, though. GNOME is out for blood, KDE is building
         | great stuff on a terrible library, and everyone else is just
         | shifting uncomfortably because Wayland still isn 't desktop-
         | agnostic (much less hardware-agnostic, for that matter). The
         | way things are headed, I wouldn't be surprised if Linux was
         | almost entirely unsupported by Slack/Spotify/Discord in 2025.
        
         | ezekiel11 wrote:
         | what I really dislike is some linux user trying to brush those
         | things off as a non-issue, it sure is for non-seasoned users.
         | 
         | and this to me is the biggest hinderance to its wide adoption.
         | it caters to a specific crowd.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | No, choice is far better, for there is no single solution for
         | all. There just isn't.
         | 
         | It is as if you are arguing that there should only be one
         | motorized personal transportation device. No small or large
         | cars, no trucks or motorcycles.
         | 
         | Different people have different needs.
        
         | fortyseven wrote:
         | Yes, dad.
        
       | ho_schi wrote:
       | I appreciate this effort, even as GNOME-User and while I prefer
       | smaller ThinkPads (13').
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | Which of these comes with a 4K display?
        
         | sscarduzio wrote:
         | None. I cannot understand why. Like all linux-preinstalled
         | laptops. The only exception are Dell XPS line.
        
           | 3np wrote:
           | There are other exceptions from Tuxedo Computers and Starlabs
           | Systems mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
           | 
           | Though yeah, Clevo and others improving their display game
           | would be a gamechanger.
        
           | twaw wrote:
           | I have HP Chrome 13" with 4k IPS. I love it. But it has one
           | bright pixel now.
        
           | philliphaydon wrote:
           | X1 Extreme.
        
         | charles_kaw wrote:
         | I don't know why this is getting down-voted? It's a serious
         | question. 1080p density on a 15in display looks horrible.
        
           | 3np wrote:
           | Because it should be obvious that there is no such option, so
           | the question is not in good faith.
           | 
           | Currently the most top-voted comment raises the same issue
           | with different words.
        
             | rishav_sharan wrote:
             | Why should that be obvious? In fact what the poster above
             | us asked seems to be a more obvious question for any laptop
             | in 2022.
        
               | dingleberry420 wrote:
               | Did you click the link and look at the sales page? Did
               | you see an option for a 4k display? Or does the page
               | explicitly say "1920 by 1080 resolution"? How could
               | something be any more obvious than that?
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | rowanG077 wrote:
       | CPU base GHz(lower is better)? This is a mistake, higher is
       | better.
        
         | Silica6149 wrote:
         | I think they mean that lower base GHz is better because the
         | laptop drains less battery when idle or doing low effort tasks.
        
           | rowanG077 wrote:
           | Those are orthogonal really since your laptop clock can still
           | go below base clock when idle.
        
       | atemerev wrote:
       | 1920x1080 display? In 2022?
        
       | dochico wrote:
       | Would be great to have a 16/10 aspect ratio but what is even more
       | important is a decent brightness.
       | 
       | Does someone know if the RAM is glued in or easily replaceable ?
       | 
       | Wondering when we will finally see a good ARM-Notebook with high
       | memory >=32GB RAM
        
         | red_trumpet wrote:
         | The ThinkPad X13s runs a Snapdragon and allows up to 32 GB RAM.
         | 
         | https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th...
        
         | lhl wrote:
         | You get 2 x SODIMM slots. I run my last-gen (4800H) version w/
         | 64GB of DDR4-3200 w/o any issues.
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | This looks lovely but I'm over pretty slim things, at least for
       | personal use. I have an Apple device for work but at home I want
       | something for _hacking_.
       | 
       | What's the closest thing I can buy to a cyber-deck laptop, these
       | days?
        
         | user-one1 wrote:
         | https://frame.work/
        
         | krolden wrote:
         | https://www.mntmn.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-mo...
        
           | gorgoiler wrote:
           | Very nice. These ARM socs work best when they can run stock
           | OSs. The best ones can, the worst ones need GitHub curl hack
           | after hack. I wonder how MNT's product stands up to this
           | test?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | How much Gbps does the USB-C port support?
       | 
       | Does the HDMI port support 4K displays?
        
       | waynesonfire wrote:
       | So many great laptop options out there besides mac. Wish there
       | was like a laptop conference where one could sample all the
       | offerings. I could never buy a laptop without first trying it.
        
         | schaefer wrote:
         | Make use of the 30 day return window.
         | 
         | I tried hp dev one, but the screen's viewing angle was so bad I
         | couldn't position the screen so that I could see all four
         | corners at once without color shift.
         | 
         | I owned it less than one week.
        
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