[HN Gopher] FBI Child ID App
___________________________________________________________________
FBI Child ID App
Author : 0xedb
Score : 108 points
Date : 2022-07-06 13:06 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.fbi.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.fbi.gov)
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| > _The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information
| that you enter in the app._
|
| So what's the advantage of using this vs. the photos you probably
| already have of your child, and a notes app for recording height
| and weight?
| abirch wrote:
| My only guess is that when your kid is missing, you may not be
| thinking clearly. It's why we say nine-one-one instead of nine-
| eleven. This app probably prompts you to take a mugshot of your
| kid so it'd be easier for the police to recognize.
| idontknowmyacc wrote:
| It's just me or their logo is cheesy as floor.
| worksonmine wrote:
| Janie and Johnny Doe don't feel very appropriate as examples in
| this context.
| can16358p wrote:
| It says:
|
| We're sorry... The request has been blocked.
| [deleted]
| palencharizard wrote:
| judging by the photo I'm guessing this will be available for the
| iPhone 5
| mtmail wrote:
| Version 1 got released June 2011, so it supported iPhone 4.
| tyingq wrote:
| There's a funny rendering problem with the pdf brochure where
| their assurance that it's not collecting information is split up
| and pasted in the wrong places. Making the document start with
| this sentence: "collecting or storing any photos or information
| that you enter in the app".
|
| https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/child-id-app-brochure.pd...
| namelessoracle wrote:
| It says a lot about the FBI that most people's initial reaction
| is "whats the trick here?". BOTH sides of the political aisle
| too.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| I think a lot of people are put off by the fact that the FBI
| took the time to make this instead of doing more important
| duties. The app seems to have good intentions, but its
| execution needs work, so there's not much benefit.
| Tao3300 wrote:
| It almost _has to be_ a summer intern project.
| fuj wrote:
| SN76477 wrote:
| News media has driven fear and fear will drive authoritarianism.
| system16 wrote:
| Going by the version history, this app has been around for over a
| decade. You'd think in that time they would have changed the
| exceptionally hideous app icon.
| r3trohack3r wrote:
| > The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information
| that you enter in the app. All data resides solely on your mobile
| device unless you need to send it to authorities.
|
| If true, this sounds thoughtfully designed.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| Maybe they should open source it for third parties to verify it
| then.
| Dma54rhs wrote:
| What's the point if you can't verify what they upload to play
| store / app store anyway? They can publish as code anything
| but that doesn't mean you run it.
| r3trohack3r wrote:
| > All data resides solely on your mobile device unless you
| need to send it to authorities.
|
| Network chatter can be viewed without source code access. If
| what they're saying is true, this app should not make network
| requests unless initiated by the user.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| This is a good point. Still, apps generally get updated
| frequently. So they could change it at any time, which is
| why it would be nice if others could audit it at any time.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| That's a good point, shouldn't the FBI's apps be open source?
| egberts1 wrote:
| Unless the app software needs to be secured ... for
| national security reason; read that last part again.
| zanethomas wrote:
| "The FBI is not collecting or storing any photos or information
| that you enter in the app."
|
| Anyone in the market for a bridge?
| jeezzbo wrote:
| Fraudulent bureaucracies leave fossil trails.. and 80 million
| supporters to harvest.
| celticninja wrote:
| why does the inner cycnic in my think this is just to get some
| facial recognition data
| bklyn11201 wrote:
| I remember being fingerprinted in elementary school. Is this
| still common practice in USA?
| h2odragon wrote:
| Yes, AFAIK. It's still "voluntary" in that a child can refuse
| to do it if they're willing to raise enough stink and make a
| scene. Of course, one could paint their fingers with nail
| polish on that day, too...
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Do the schools have to get the parent's permission somehow?
| This can't seem like a situation where the child has to
| make a commotion in order to not consent.
| [deleted]
| h2odragon wrote:
| I believe it's probably covered in the mass of stuff you
| sign at the beginning of the school year.
| striking wrote:
| I don't remember anything like that happening to me. I hope
| that's not common.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Our entire school district did it for decades.
| okwubodu wrote:
| Very common. I suspect they slowed down post-2020.
|
| https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=elementary%20(fingerpri
| n...
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I had no idea you could do querying for twitter like
| that...
| okwubodu wrote:
| Yep, it has almost the same feature set as the dev API.
| You can get really specific without knowing what exactly
| you're searching for.
| drannex wrote:
| Very, very common.
| Miner49er wrote:
| I don't think it ever was?
| CompuHacker wrote:
| It may be regional. Not sure how their marketing worked.
| See "Ident-A-Kid" (https://identakid.com/)
| commandlinefan wrote:
| They took ours when I was in third or fourth grade (so
| early 80's). They took us on a field trip to a police
| station and everybody lined up to have their fingerprints
| taken - I don't know if they actually kept them or did
| anything with them, though.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| What? Did you ever find out what the fingerprints were used
| for?
|
| This is like taking a DNA sample from child when they're born
| nowadays, it seems harmless now, but we can already see
| companies using this kind of data maliciously.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| In the US it was very common. My kids did it at school in
| the 90s.
|
| The point was that if your child goes missing, you have
| their fingerprints available so they can be used in
| investigations. In our case, the fingerprints were given to
| us to take home in case they were ever needed. At the time
| I didn't think to ask if the police kept a record for
| themselves, but I doubt it (just because local PD wasn't
| very organized).
| 13of40 wrote:
| I still have my card from the early 80s, in semi rural
| Oregon. The way I remember it (with a caveat of me being
| six) was it was the only copy. I don't think my parents
| would have done it if the government was keeping one.
| jeezzbo wrote:
| where did you go to school?
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| New England.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I went to school in the 2000's when I moved to Florida,
| and I don't remember this, maybe I was too old, I went to
| school in Puerto Rico prior to this.
| navjack27 wrote:
| Never did that in NJ in the 90s
| sph wrote:
| It's an excellent long term plan. Children today are adults
| tomorrow.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| That's what I was thinking -- what incentive does the FBI have
| to develop this?
| mminer237 wrote:
| To prevent child crimes? That's a big mission of the FBI.
|
| See also ECAP: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/ecap
| macksd wrote:
| Some department head got patted on the back, and a bunch of
| "analysts" burned 10 times what it should have taken to put
| this together. They're all getting salaries, good retirement
| benefits, and the satisfying feeling of having ended child
| exploitation (or at least telling people that).
| bostonsre wrote:
| I know it seems like a long shot, but could they potentially
| be trying to do good and help people?
| Silica6149 wrote:
| The US doesn't have a good track record in that regard,
| even towards its own people.
| bostonsre wrote:
| You are really saying the fbi does more bad than good?
| excalibur wrote:
| Scully: Why would the aliens ONLY abduct people who installed the
| FBI app on their phones?
|
| Mulder: They must have a mole inside the Bureau!
|
| Skinner: If you go down this road I can't protect you.
|
| Smoking man: _smokes_
| navjack27 wrote:
| Lol
| Silica6149 wrote:
| "An important note: The FBI is not collecting or storing any
| photos or information that you enter in the app."
|
| Thanks for answering the question we all had, FBI.
| namelessoracle wrote:
| "The FBI" is not collecting is the key weasel word here.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| You should have that question no matter the author of the app.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Yup. It's just that they went out of their way to answer
| it... Almost like they're worried people won't download the
| app if they didn't say it upfront.
| logicalmonster wrote:
| Surely, the FBI would never tell a lie.
| theden wrote:
| 2.4/5 on Apple's App store...
|
| The UI needs a lot of work going by the screenshots, it doesn't
| look appealing and there's some obvious contrast issues
| Pakdef wrote:
| lawgimenez wrote:
| Can't wait to decompile their Android apk tomorrow. I'm curious
| how FBI codes Android.
| jwozn wrote:
| I would be interested to see if you have any intriguing
| findings!
| lawgimenez wrote:
| I just hope my house won't get raided before I publish my
| findings.
| theseobosscom wrote:
| WTF, literally!
| eckza wrote:
| Nice try, FBI.
| egberts1 wrote:
| Perhaps another day, DoHS.
| jerkstate wrote:
| Not today, NSA.
| [deleted]
| h2odragon wrote:
| > Please read your mobile provider's terms of service for
| information about the security of applications stored on your
| device.
|
| Is this weasel words? Apple already has some terms about being
| able to scan things locally before "potential upload", no?
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Interesting... the FBI could ask or already have a backdoor
| provided by Apple.
| namelessoracle wrote:
| It makes me wonder if downloading this app gives the FBI a
| ready made backdoor into your iPhone. (not sure if that's
| even possible with the iOS infrastructure)
| bbarnett wrote:
| Apple scans apps, code, as does Google.
|
| But what if an Apple employee works for the FBI? Large
| firms are known to have moles in them, both from
| competitors, and from government.
| smoldesu wrote:
| What if _just one_ employee works for the FBI? We don 't
| need to guess about that sort of stuff, supposedly Apple
| has complied with PRISM for nearly a decade now. I'd bet
| there's a lot more than just one US intelligence officer
| working at Apple.
| jaywalk wrote:
| Apple would have to be complicit. And at that point, why
| tie it to an app that almost nobody will download? Just
| build it into iOS/iCloud and call it a day.
| N-Krause wrote:
| Initially I thought that it would be satire, then I recognized
| the domain. I have a weird feeling about this, but can't put a
| finger on it.
| eddieroger wrote:
| There's no way of saying it without sounding sarcastic that
| yes, this feels like a scam, if not just a bad idea. The fact
| that they have to come out and say, "no, we're not storing
| pictures of your kids" doesn't help. The idea of the app is
| sound, and one would hope you could trust the Federal
| Government with such information (like they don't have it
| already), but the iOS6 era screenshots and verbiage feel like a
| real scam.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I think this might be abandonware.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Their news site looks like abandonware.
| andymockli wrote:
| From page source: <meta name="DC.date.created"
| content="2018-01-24T18:18:24+00:00">
| Silica6149 wrote:
| I agree the design is definitely outdated. It's also
| hilarious that it's exactly the kind of look I would've
| expected from an app released by the FBI.
| mminer237 wrote:
| It would be pretty easy to do a packet inspection and see if
| they're telling the truth about not transmitting the photos.
| [deleted]
| bbarnett wrote:
| And how does one do packet inspection:
|
| * if packets are only sent via carrier, not wifi
|
| * if packets are sent to aws instances, which is very
| common
|
| * if it all stops when phone is rooted, which is common for
| many apps
| gzer0 wrote:
| * deep packet inspection of carrier based communications
| is a thing [1].
|
| * Gov't is mandated to use AWS Gov instances which are
| quite easy to distinguish [2].
|
| * there are ways to bypass those rootchecks to make a
| rooted phone seem not rooted [3].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection#
| United_...
|
| [2] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-govcloud-
| earns-dod...
|
| [3] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68661134/root-
| detection-...
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Gov't is mandated to use AWS Gov instances which are
| quite easy to distinguish
|
| That's not, in fact, true. The certifications that apply
| to AWS Gov make it easier to meet certain government
| compliance rules that apply to certain categories of
| data, but it is possible to meet the standards on a
| platform that isn't certified or certified to a lower
| level (but it means more administrative work for the org
| using the platform) and many Commercial AWS offerings
| have FedRAMP certifications, anyhow. I work in an org
| touched by FedRAMP, and which is almost entirely on AWS
| commercial, not Gov.
| samatman wrote:
| Consider that AWS Gov can offer a service disguising
| instances as ordinary.
|
| Consider that they wouldn't have to tell us, indeed,
| might face criminal penalties for disclosing it.
|
| Conclusion: the FBI can do this.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| The app seems like a great idea and there honestly seems to
| be no particular reason why the FBI had to make it.
|
| In the case of a child disappearing, it could save a lot of
| time.
| eddieroger wrote:
| If I was going to download /any/ app from the App Store in
| which to store pictures and factual data about my kids, I
| would hope I could trust the FBI more than Joe's App Shack
| or another anonymous developer. But in this case, if
| they're not going to tend to their app and it's marketing
| site, hard pass.
| Akronymus wrote:
| I personally suspect that it'll be used as training data to
| generate avatars for the FBI to entrap people with.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Isn't this fairly easy to investigate and find out? If the app
| never phones home then it really isn't an issue.
| perlgeek wrote:
| A future update of the app might start phoning home.
| Tao3300 wrote:
| Installing any kind of channel back to the FBI on an
| Android device from who-knows-where with who-knows-what
| malware running on it feels like a disaster waiting to
| happen.
| UweSchmidt wrote:
| People who are have the skills to investigate home phoning
| might get a version pushed that doesn't phone home.
|
| /tinfoil
| perlgeek wrote:
| You don't even have to assume tinfoil hattery to think
| that a future update might phone home -- just a change in
| internal politics / leadership can lead to that.
| game-of-throws wrote:
| I have that weird feeling too. I'll try to put my finger on it
| in a non-sarcastic way.
|
| 1. This plays into the US's helicopter parenting culture of
| fear
|
| 2. Most kidnappings are by someone you already know. The
| "shopping at the mall" example is again, more fear mongering
|
| https://journalistsresource.org/politics-and-government/chil...
|
| > Parents were the perpetrators in more than 90 percent of
| kidnappings and abductions
|
| 3. The app is to store photos of your kid? Just use your camera
| gallery. I guarantee it's easier to use than the FBI's clunky
| app (inferred from their screenshot of a 10-year-old iOS
| version)
|
| 4. This is life, you can't solve everything with an app. Get
| your head out of your phone and open your eyes and look for
| your kid, they're probably one store down at the arcade
| Tao3300 wrote:
| Felt off to me too. My guess is that it's a makework project
| they put a batch of summer interns on to keep them out of
| trouble.
| bradtheappguy wrote:
| My guess is some subcontractor got to build it and charge an
| obscene amount of money for it.
| egorfine wrote:
| Troll level: FBI.
| alsetmusic wrote:
| There's a television ad that stands out in my memory from when I
| was a kid (80s). The camera pans across patrons at a diner and
| the voiceover is about how a kidnapped child was recovered as the
| camera stops on a young girl (~8yo). The child is described, but
| the child the camera landed on has different features (hair dyed,
| cut, whatever). The explanation for how she was identified is
| that her fingerprints were on file. The message? Get your
| children fingerprinted!
|
| In adulthood, I've often thought back to that ludicrous ad. No
| child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul play is
| already suspected. The likelihood that the child would fall into
| police custody and get checked is already slim; fingerprints
| aren't going to help until that happens. We don't have campaigns
| to fingerprint children as a proactive precaution today (of which
| I'm aware). Clearly, that wasn't a major breakthrough in
| reuniting kidnapped children with their parents that endured.
|
| I'm very cynical, but I've always thought that was a campaign to
| gather biometrics from the population using fear as a motivator.
| I don't necessarily think this is that, but I can't help
| wondering the perverse incentives of the FBI as I'm reminded of
| the ad.
| red_phone wrote:
| I remember that as well. Just assumed that the unstated reason
| was to assist in identifying deceased kids.
| Tade0 wrote:
| Fingerprints aren't even particularly useful here.
|
| Our irises are considerably more information-dense, accessible
| and stable over time as evidenced by the famous identification
| of Sharbat Gula: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~jgd1000/afghan.html
|
| A close-up photo should be enough to reliably identify a person
| years after they went missing.
| SapporoChris wrote:
| While most people do have stable iris patterns it is not the
| case for everyone. Numerous conditions can cause changes in
| the eyes. Glaucoma being the most obvious one, but there are
| a whole host of other conditions like lisch nodules, Uveal
| melanoma, etc.
|
| However, perhaps with training, identification could be made
| in spite of changes to the iris.
| lwswl wrote:
| Interesting
| shapefrog wrote:
| > Our irises are considerably more information-dense
|
| Someone should give you free cryptocurrency for a scan of
| your iris.
| hugodutka wrote:
| It's already been done:
| https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/10/21/sam-altmans-worldcoin-
| wa...
| sblom wrote:
| (That was the joke.)
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Still worth linking because that is quite an obscure
| reference.
| JadoJodo wrote:
| I suspect GP was being facetious.
| klyrs wrote:
| Poe's law strikes again. Any joke about crypto scams has
| already been implemented for real...
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| As someone who wants to enter and profit from the
| burgeoning underground iris transplantation economy,
| where do I start? I get the sense that there is an
| arbitrage opportunity between the cost of eye surgery and
| crypto returns but exactly how do I capitalize on this?
| thrr0wawayy wrote:
| Everest uses biometrics to tie your information to your
| wallet. The tech is actually pretty cool in my opinion -
| they have the Everest ID coin itself, but I am more
| interested in the identity management part of it.
|
| I'm not sure I'm 100% on board, but the tech is really
| interesting and their approach to privacy seems much better
| than I would expect from an offering like that. The aim is
| to be able to offer Know Your Customer using their identity
| platform to a mulititude of services.
|
| Everest.org is their site
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Did not know that! How easily can irises be identified in
| person, though? Has a handheld scanner been developed yet?
|
| Fingerprints can also be left on objects, which can be
| helpful for tracking someone.
| Tade0 wrote:
| > Has a handheld scanner been developed yet?
|
| Yes - I used one as far back as in 2010 on a science fair
| where we enrolled people to a research database.
|
| A phone camera close-up should be enough in the right
| conditions, but additionally Samsung's Galaxy line used to
| include and iris scanner, which was just a near-infrared
| LED and a camera.
| NullPrefix wrote:
| Regular photo camera can take photos of irises
| x86_64Ubuntu wrote:
| Yes, they were using them to catalog folks in Afghanistan
|
| https://www.wired.com/2010/09/afghan-biometric-dragnet-
| could...
|
| Of course, the Taliban were able to seize this collection
| of data.
|
| https://theintercept.com/2021/08/17/afghanistan-taliban-
| mili...
| lwswl wrote:
| But your irises don't tend to leave traces everywhere, and
| are thus only valuable for telling who you are, not where
| you've been.
|
| Although that depends on the number of cameras around, access
| to them, and how much they are recording. Fingerprints are a
| lot simpler and easier to access.
| JTbane wrote:
| Yep, I remember getting fingerprinted at a mall. Thanks to my
| folks for preemptively snitching.
| AndyMcConachie wrote:
| Happened to me as well. Now the FBI has my fingerprints on
| file even though I've never committed a crime.
|
| I had a discussion with my Mom a couple years about this and
| she admitted she screwed up. I can't blame her of course.
| Especially since at the time there was plenty of FBI
| propoganda about missing kids terrifying parents and claiming
| this was a solution.
| procombo wrote:
| In the U.S. we used to collect palm/foot prints on every
| child within a few days of birth. Newborn fingerprints are
| difficult to collect, as skin is very delicate. Now we
| require DNA collection at birth.
|
| https://www.aclu.org/other/newborn-dna-banking
|
| With my youngest I found a clever way to "opt-out".
| Unfortunately at my child's 6 month pediatric appointment
| at a private clinic, the nurse charged in and demanded a
| sample to send in on the spot. She said they couldn't
| proceed with any services unless they sent the card in, as
| their license would be revoked unless doing so.
|
| https://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/04/baby.dna.government/i
| n...
|
| In my state you can REQUEST to have the collection card
| destroyed after 6 weeks, and before 18 years. But they do
| not guarantee it gets done. Which is just for the
| collection card. They make sure to "transfer but not sell"
| the samples to separate entity between that time, which
| keeps a copy and digitizes it.
| DrFunke wrote:
| Tell us how you cleverly opted out?
| upsidesinclude wrote:
| This is bizarre and should not be legal. There is
| definitely not any public awareness of this practice.
| Increasingly people are aware of the very real
| implications of allowing the government and insurance
| agencies to have your data. Your genes are your data
| capableweb wrote:
| I remember reading about a country doing DNA collection
| of every single person born, since the 80s or something
| like that, leading to that country now sitting on the
| most extensive DNA database of its kind. I can't remember
| which country it was though. Searching for "most
| extensive DNA database" and similar just leads me to
| various voluntary databases from the US, but I think this
| database I'm thinking about was involuntary, and every
| single person in the country is basically registered in
| it.
| mc32 wrote:
| I think most states [edit: apparently only some states] in
| the US require a fingerprint in order to issue a drivers'
| license or for a state ID. So I guess you could be somewhat
| anonymous till you had to get your state ID and then they'd
| know who it was.
| twunde wrote:
| Well this sent me down a tangent since I had never heard
| of this. Per
| https://www.cga.ct.gov/2001/rpt/2001-R-0858.htm (circa
| 2001) the only states that require a fingerprint are
| California, Colorado, Georgia, Texas although apparently
| Alabama and Florida used to do so. Feels pretty crazy to
| me
| BrianGragg wrote:
| Oklahoma requires a thumbprint. Electronically.
| toast0 wrote:
| IIRC, California just takes a thumbprint, so obviously
| don't use that thumb while committing crimes and you're
| fine. OTOH, I got the full set of fingerprints (in ink!)
| and affirmed an oath to uphold the constitutions of the
| US and California as a condition of working for a school
| district, so I'm not available for crimes anymore.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| I've never had a print taken for a license in four
| states.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| > I can't blame her of course. Especially since at the time
| there was plenty of FBI propoganda about missing kids
| terrifying parents and claiming this was a solution.
|
| So long as we keep giving people a pass for falling for
| this crap they have no incentive not to fall for this crap.
| autoexec wrote:
| Let's keep the blame on the government which is meant to
| serve us, not the people who were only doing what they
| thought was best after having been deceived by that same
| government.
|
| Holding your mom accountable for a mistake she made when
| you were a baby isn't helping anyone, holding your
| government accountable for building a database of our
| DNA/fingerprints against our wishes helps everyone.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >Let's keep the blame on the government which is meant to
| serve us, not the people who were only doing what they
| thought was best after having been deceived by that same
| government.
|
| At some point the people enable the government. People
| need to feel stupid for falling for that crap or they
| will keep falling for it.
|
| >Holding your mom accountable for a mistake she made when
| you were a baby isn't helping anyone, holding your
| government accountable for building a database of our
| DNA/fingerprints against our wishes helps everyone.
|
| This is not how it works.
|
| If people cannot find the will to hold the people in
| their lives accountable then they will never find the
| will to hold the government accountable.
|
| I'm not saying the dude has to pistol whip his mom and
| set the house on fire over it but it'd be nice if people
| would resent those kinds of decisions made by their
| parents and other people in their lives (like the aunt
| who submits her DNA to one of those ancestry services
| that shares it) a little more.
| thayne wrote:
| I'm not sure that's relevant to this. This app just makes it
| easier to give police or security the information they ask for
| if you lose your child (note not necessarily kidnapped), like a
| photo, age, and height. And they claim the info is only stored
| locally. Maybe that claim is false, but if it was, then once
| that was discovered it would probably cause a lot of legal and
| PR problems for the FBI.
| trey-jones wrote:
| This was a very big thing in the late 80s apparently. Our local
| Kiwanis Club had provided IDs for parents in the community who
| wanted them. They just had a photo of the child with some other
| physical descriptions like eye color and birthmarks. Still,
| kind of a local, analog version of this, but without the
| dystopian bent.
|
| I agree, this feels more creepy than useful/helpful service.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| There was a moral panic about kidnapped children in the '80s
| that resulted in parents getting their kids fingerprinted.
| The macabre side of it is that it wasn't for reuniting
| _living_ kids... Very many children who can talk (i.e. 8
| years old) would be able to describe their parents to the
| cops well enough to track them down from phone book data. It
| was really useful data for identifying John and Jane Doe
| corpses though.
| libraryatnight wrote:
| I remember this! I got finger printed at some event where
| police had a booth next to the fire dept (who were espousing
| bike helmets and teaching kids how to properly wear one etc,
| actually useful safety info). It wasn't until I was a teenager
| when my first car was broken into and the speakers stolen that
| I realized how useless that endeavor must be. The officer who
| responded (my first time calling the police, not running from
| them!) was pretty upfront with me. As he took finger prints
| from the area where the door was jimmied, I was like "cool,
| finger printing!" and he told me this wouldn't likely lead to
| anything. First he said "You'll never get your speakers back,
| even if we found them we wouldn't call you, they'd probably be
| in a lot of all kinds of other stolen stuff and it's impossible
| to sort through and return stolen items." Bummer number one.
| Then he explained that the finger prints would only be useful
| if the thief got picked up for doing something else, he wasn't
| going to go run the prints and try to find the person etc like
| I was probably imagining (I was, I admit, thinking that's what
| happened when they took finger prints - thanks TV). Standing in
| my driveway I flashed back immediately to that finger printing
| booth where my parents were told it would help if I got
| kidnapped, and thought "Oh great, I'm in the system." Not that
| I had a life of crime in mind, but the internet of the early
| 90s really gave me a healthy distrust of being tracked, logged,
| etc. (Oh if we only knew the hellscape ahead.)
| dredmorbius wrote:
| There's a science-fiction short story I've been trying to
| remember for quite some time.
|
| I'd all but certainly read it in an anthology during the
| 1970s or early 1980s, probably one of the award compilations
| (Hugos, Analog, etc.).
|
| A computer programmer and his boss are working on a large
| data tracking system that is about to be activated, in which
| everyone's identification and personal information are
| entered. The boss gives the programmer the choice of opting
| out of the system. The programmer opts out.
|
| For the life of me I cannot remember the rest of the story,
| the author, year, etc. But it's stuck with me, and comes to
| mind often as a slew of ever-more-invasive online information
| systems (ISP email, some early LinkedIn-type start-ups,
| MySpace and Facebook, Google Gmail, Google+, etc.) have come
| on to the scene.
|
| If anyone can remember what story this was, or others
| reasonably similar to it, I'd be grateful.
| xg15 wrote:
| > _" You'll never get your speakers back, even if we found
| them we wouldn't call you, they'd probably be in a lot of all
| kinds of other stolen stuff and it's impossible to sort
| through and return stolen items."_
|
| Wait what? So police simply keeps stolen goods with no option
| for the original owners to get them back? Because civil asset
| forfeiture isn't enough I guess?
| xen2xen1 wrote:
| I suspect running fingerprints is much easier now, depending
| on how long it's been. It's very automated now.
| gonzo41 wrote:
| I got bonded (Police background checks with fingerprinting etc)
| for a job which had a large cash handling component. dealing
| with > 100K in twenties and fifties in a Casino. My prints were
| kept for elimination after the process, but the police were
| very eager to inform me that they don't get kept past two
| years.
|
| The police had petitioned the government under the guise of
| privacy laws to make sure they had to throw away the records.
| Which seems counter intuitive until you realize it'd require me
| to go through the same process again at a later date. More
| money for them.
|
| I've less fear of my biometrics being tracked than I do of rent
| seeking behavior from public officials.
| lazyasciiart wrote:
| It also means they don't have to deal with the problem of
| having shit tons of fingerprint data. Depending on the laws
| around who was responsible for it, that could be quite a
| hassle.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| For those of us with an inverted threat model, the profit
| motive here seems an interesting approach.
| [deleted]
| Silica6149 wrote:
| If it was a ad, was a company involved? Sending biometrics to
| any company should always make someone think twice.
| [deleted]
| rbanffy wrote:
| > No child's fingerprints are getting checked unless some foul
| play is already suspected.
|
| A simple way around it is to have the kid fingerprinted and
| only release the information if the kid needs to be
| tracked/located.
| GavinMcG wrote:
| I think the comment is pointing out that if your child is
| kidnapped and raised elsewhere, there will not be a reason to
| fingerprint them _then_ for comparison unless there 's
| already a reason to think they may have been kidnapped.
|
| That is, it might help on the back end, but the comment is
| suggesting that mass fingerprinting is not likely to move the
| needle much.
| rbanffy wrote:
| A small chance is better than no chance. I was answering to
| the privacy concern, not the effectiveness of the method.
| It seems like a plausible business model to professionally
| collect hold biometric data encrypted with the owner's
| keys, opaque to the party storing the data.
|
| It's a bit like the businesses that store umbilical cord
| stem cells for the very unlikely chance they'll be useful
| at some point in the future.
| GavinMcG wrote:
| Got it. I had thought you were responding to the part you
| quoted.
| rbanffy wrote:
| That's a very good point. Sorry for the confusion.
| vanattab wrote:
| I think thier point was even if you registered your kids
| fingerprints with the police they are not going to go around
| to every kid in all the dinners checking fingerprints to
| compare to.
| rbanffy wrote:
| My point was to only release the information to the police
| if and when the kid needs to be located.
| bobkazamakis wrote:
| release what valuable information here? What information
| is being "released" that is going to be helpful in a way
| that if it wasn't for the FBI App, you would be
| regretting it?
| rbanffy wrote:
| My suggestion was to have the information with you, and
| release it to the police if and when privacy concerns are
| not as relevant in comparison.
| 300bps wrote:
| My parents were paranoid about kidnappings. It was like perfect
| social engineering on my parents' generation with TV movies
| like Adam - the story of John Walsh's son who was kidnapped and
| beheaded:
|
| https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085136/
|
| My parents had me and my siblings watch that movie with them -
| it is still unsettling to me thinking about it.
|
| And then the FBI contacted my school and provided a voluntary
| program for parents to have their children fingerprinted. From
| my memory 95%+ of kids all lined up in my school and got
| fingerprinted to "protect them from kidnapping".
|
| It honestly seems surreal - looking back it sure seems like a
| black ops campaign to get biometric data on a large portion of
| the U.S. youth population.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Or, they actually were thought to be useful for kidnappings
| and this was an honest attempt. Perhaps largely security
| theatre, I could imagine there have been a handful of cases
| where this was enough.
|
| The ever growing mistrust in government and society will
| become a self fulfilling promise. I worry about our future
| when no good and honest talent wants to work for the greater
| good at reduced pay.
| samatman wrote:
| There is abundant evidence suggesting that arrow of
| causality between FBI activity and public perception of
| them as dastardly flows in the opposite direction from the
| one you have presumed here.
| Markoff wrote:
| no need for any campaign anymore, most kids in EU have
| biometric passports, though not sure at what age they start
| fingerprinting them, which they don't do because their hands
| are growing too much so fingerprints world be quite useless
| under certain age
|
| though some countries like Germany issue some simplified
| passports for kids, Czechia and Slovakia for instance issue
| same as adult passports, only difference being validity
| yellowapple wrote:
| > An important note: The FBI is not collecting or storing any
| photos or information that you enter in the app. All data resides
| solely on your mobile device unless you need to send it to
| authorities.
|
| I'd believe that about as far as I can throw it.
| f38zf5vdt wrote:
| FBI seems to be making the best out of their recent partnership
| with Clearview AI.
|
| https://iapp.org/news/a/fbi-agrees-to-licensing-contract-wit...
| beeskneecaps wrote:
| Or just take photos of your child in advance and call 911 if they
| go missing.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| I am not a fan of this idea. My preference would be that parents
| could use an open source application and store-bought kit to
| gather/store datapoints on their children _fingerprint kit, iris
| scan, DNA gathering_ and if /when something bad happens the
| parents can share the data with the appropriate law enforcement
| agencies that are actually involved in the case. There would also
| need to be data retention/destruction laws on the books that
| mandates when the copy of the data must be destroyed by law
| enforcement and serious consequences for a law enforcement agency
| should they side step the data retention requirements.
|
| Anything short of this feels like a catch-all extension of ID.me
| and hospitals now gathering DNA from babies without the parents
| knowledge or consent. Children can not consent to their data
| being captured in this manor. This should be a role of parents
| and they should be securely storing this data in my very less
| than humble opinion. One copy on-site and one copy in a bank
| safety deposit box and/or one copy stored off-site with a
| relative, ideally someone legally designated as an emergency
| legal guardian.
| giantg2 wrote:
| You can't remember this info or write it down? The normal photos
| on your phone can't be sent to authorities?
|
| Seems like an app to fix a nonexistent problem.
| Covzire wrote:
| Cynically, it seems like a way to normalize an orwellian social
| credit system in the west where eventually everyone will have
| something similar on their phones, like China is doing.
|
| "You already keep an app with photos, this just adds a
| barcode... "
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| Low grade corruption ...and here's why:
|
| The FBI is understaffed, misdirected & underfunded for its real
| mission, which I would argue must be fighting public corruption,
| organized crime and counter-espionage. Any objective analysis
| would conclude the Bureau has been politicized and its resources
| have been directed at operations, investigations and training
| that does not fulfill its core mission.
|
| The bad PR and mistrust the FBI has earned in recent years is the
| public product of what I'm describing, and the solution is not
| mobile apps of marginal utility made to make the Bureau look
| good. No, the solution is arrests of corrupt politicians, crime
| bosses & spies.
|
| Its not just the FBI suffering from feel/look good boondoggles.
| The Air Force struggles with hypersonics but excels at new
| uniform design. The DOT is a leader in equity & diversity, but
| has failed to upgrade & regulate rail infrastructure & procedures
| that make derailments a regular occurrence.
|
| Tax revenues have been their highest in decades, possibly longer.
| We deserve better.
| MarkMarine wrote:
| The FBI and other 3 letter agencies have been vacuuming up
| every communication between us, warrantless, for so many years
| it's crazy. That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do
| what exactly? No I really want to know. It's not keeping us
| safe, because someone who is basically a cartoon caricature of
| a school shooter can scare everyone they come in contact with,
| get a long gun and ammo, and execute a mass shooting, but
| somehow the panopticon keeps missing it.
|
| If we're not giving up our rights for safety, what are we
| giving them up for? Cause we have neither.
| davidro80 wrote:
| pwython wrote:
| > "That unconstitutional overreach has been used to do what
| exactly? No I really want to know. It's not keeping us
| safe..."
|
| Unpopular opinion, but you know the old saying: No one hears
| about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has stopped a terrorist
| act, you only hear about the disasters that eventually played
| out.
|
| For every one sick person that went on to do something crazy,
| hundreds have been caught before anything happened.
|
| I don't understand the upset for "warrantless wire-tapping"
| unless you have something to hide, especially when these days
| people are begging the government to protect us from
| extremists/terrorists and not sit on their hands.
| artificialLimbs wrote:
| "hundreds have been caught"
|
| [citation needed]
|
| You are going to get flagged to death. Rightfully so.
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| >For every one sick person that went on to do something
| crazy, hundreds have been caught before anything happened.
|
| If their dragnets had even a shred of utility for that
| purpose they'd be telling you about it at every
| opportunity.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| MarkMarine wrote:
| samatman wrote:
| For this to be true, the FBI would have to: capture 'sick
| persons' without charging them with a crime or sending out
| a press release.
|
| I'm curious. What are the other differences in the parallel
| universe you come from? Does boot leather taste like
| strawberry shortcake?
| Taek wrote:
| Unpopular opinon because its not backed by data. We can use
| terrist events in countries that don't live under a
| panopticon as a control group.
|
| Mass surveillance is not improving general safety.
| nobody9999 wrote:
| >I don't understand the upset for "warrantless wire-
| tapping" unless you have something to hide, especially when
| these days people are begging the government to protect us
| from extremists/terrorists and not sit on their hands.
|
| Okay. Let's assume for the moment that _you_ "have nothing
| to hide."
|
| Let's go to your house and set up cameras and microphones
| covering the premises.
|
| Then, let's do the same for your automobile(s).
|
| And for good measure, let's have you wear a microphone 24/7
| too.
|
| Once that's done, we can set up a website where we can all
| watch/listen to you.
|
| If you have nothing to hide, that should be no big deal,
| right?
|
| What's that? You don't consent to such monitoring? Why? Do
| you have something to hide?
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| > No one hears about the times the FBI, CIA, etc has
| stopped a terrorist act
|
| We _should_ be hearing about them, if they actually exist,
| especially with how rabid the media is in reporting any
| potential terrorism stories[1]. A policy of not just
| quietly "disappearing" people is supposedly what sets us
| apart from those authoritarian countries that the US likes
| to paint as boogeymen. If what you're saying was true, it'd
| be a horrifying breach of ethics and the literal
| constitutional right to due process.
|
| [1] https://ourworldindata.org/does-the-news-reflect-what-
| we-die...
| int_19h wrote:
| They're welcome to tell us all about all those terrorist
| acts that they have supposedly prevented.
|
| And if you don't understand the upset for having some
| stranger rife through your private data, may I have a full
| dump of your email inbox?
| tyleo wrote:
| I think you are reading a lot into the development of an app.
| For anything the government does it seems like folks are ready
| to pop out and say, "the resources would be better spent on X."
| Maybe true but I'd argue doing slightly wrong things is better
| than listening to the orchestra of naysayers and doing nothing.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| I know it goes against majority of what people think on the
| subject, but sometimes doing nothing is the absolute best
| thing to do. Doing something badly at best can keep things as
| is; not to mention the worst case scenarios.
| Silica6149 wrote:
| Why does the FBI have to develop an app, though? Shouldn't
| they focus on what they're good at and able to do, like
| investigating crimes?
| xnyan wrote:
| >new uniform design
|
| From unflattering dress blues to incredibly uncomfortably and
| noisy (yes, noisy as in creates loud sounds) workout clothes,
| Air Force uniform design is terrible in my experience and
| subjectively seems to be the worst of all the services (I was
| always envious of Navy PT gear, looked a lot better than ours).
| maxwell wrote:
| > its real mission
|
| The FBI's primary objective in practice seems to have always
| been "maintaining the existing social and political order" [1],
| with some swaying justification of national security and
| preventing violence, corruption, espionage, terrorism, cyber
| attacks, and other vague, broad, non-specific, topical threats.
|
| 1.
| https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/9475...
|
| > mistrust the FBI has earned in recent years
|
| Do you consider COINTELPRO-BLACK HATE recent?
|
| https://archive.org/details/FBI-COINTELPRO-BLACK/100-HQ-4480...
| ejb999 wrote:
| couldn't agree more - the things the FBI choses to spend time
| and money on are mind boggling; most egregious that comes to
| mind was all the wasted time and resources tracking down and
| recovering Tom Brady's jersey in Mexico - I don't care how much
| it was worth, Tom Brady or the Patriots each have hundreds of
| millions of dollars available to them if they wanted to track
| it down with their own money.
| Cyph0n wrote:
| Wow, that is the kind of story you'd expect to see on SNL.
| giantg2 wrote:
| What you're describing isn't necessarily corruption. It sounds
| more like incompetence paired with worrying more about
| appearances than actual results.
| AndyMcConachie wrote:
| I've read letters from NKVD agents located in the USA in the
| 1930s talking about how this new guy J Edgar Hoover is using
| political blackmail so effectively. They were reporting back to
| the USSR telling their superiors how political blackmail was
| something that the new USSR needed to perfect and use to its
| advantage.
|
| I think we can have a long discussion about what the real
| purpose of the FBI is. And I bet even within the FBI they can
| have this long discussion. It is many purposed, some of which
| we may determine to be pro-social, or pro-democratic. While
| others are probably more anti-social and anti-democratic.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| The FBI has seized assets through civil forfeiture for decades.
|
| https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-06-09/fbi-beve...
|
| That's not "low grade" corruption. It's the plainest form of
| corruption conducted en masse and in a highly organized
| fashion. When an arm of the government can take your property
| without due process, any suspicion towards them is warranted.
|
| With regards to this new app, I wouldn't be surprised if this
| becomes a way to tap into every phone in the country.
| beeboop wrote:
| The simplest explanation for this really crappy, worthless
| app is that someone with budget wanted to give some
| overpriced FBI contract to a friend. I'm sure the FBI paid
| millions for this app when some college kid could do the same
| thing in a week.
| bun_at_work wrote:
| Surely the FBI doesn't need this app that only appeals to
| people with children to tap every phone in the country.
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| Case and point: I get Amber alerts on my phone.
| thrown_22 wrote:
| The first FBI director had Washington by the balls for forty
| years. Nixon didn't fire him because he expected him to
| retaliate with blackmail, neither did Truman or Kennedy.
|
| The FBI is working as intended.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| When one learns about who controlled him and how they are on
| the road to real understanding of the FBI in history. (Hint:
| Trumps former mentor was involved!) Unfortunately, in my
| analysis of the various 3-letters, they are so
| compartmentalized that the top-down corruption is not seen by
| the generally good intentioned middle and lower men. So the
| bureaucratic momentum keeps the agencies preserved when in
| reality they are often the most egregious violators of the
| constitution and need to be reigned in.
|
| https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-
| epste...
|
| "The connections Roy Cohn built during the 1950s made him a
| well-known public figure and translated into great political
| influence that peaked during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.
| Yet, as Cohn built his public image, he was also developing a
| dark private life, which would come to be dominated by the
| same blackmail pedophile racket that appears to have first
| begun with Lewis Rosenstiel.
|
| One of the "blackmail parties" Susan Kaufman attended with
| her then-husband Lewis Rosenstiel was hosted by Cohn in 1958
| at Manhattan's Plaza Hotel, suite 233. Kaufman described
| Cohn's suite as a "beautiful suite...all done in light blue."
| She described being introduced to Hoover, who was in drag, by
| Cohn, who told her that Hoover's name was "Mary" in a fit of
| barely concealed laughter. Kaufman testified that young boys
| were present and Kaufman claimed that Cohn, Hoover and her
| ex-husband engaged in sexual activity with these minors.
|
| New York attorney John Klotz, tasked with investigating Cohn
| for a case well after Kaufman's testimony, also found
| evidence of the "blue suite" at the Plaza Hotel and its role
| in a sex extortion ring after combing through local
| government documents and information gathered by private
| detectives. Klotz later told journalist and author Burton
| Hersh what he had learned: Roy Cohn was
| providing protection. There were a bunch of pedophiles
| involved. That's where Cohn got his power from -- blackmail."
|
| Perhaps the most damning confirmation of Cohn's activities in
| Suite 233 comes from statements made by Cohn himself to
| former NYPD detective and ex-head of the department's Human-
| Trafficking and Vice-Related Crimes Division, James
| Rothstein. Rothstein later told John DeCamp -- a former
| Nebraska state senator who investigated a government-
| connected child sex ring based in Omaha -- among other
| investigators, that Cohn had admitted to being part of a
| sexual blackmail operation targeting politicians with child
| prostitutes during a sit-down interview with the former
| detective.
|
| Rothstein told DeCamp the following about Cohn:
| Cohn's job was to run the little boys. Say you had an
| admiral, a general, a congressman, who did not want to go
| along with the program. Cohn's job was to set them up, then
| they would go along. Cohn told me that himself."
|
| Rothstein later told Paul David Collins, a former journalist
| turned researcher, that Cohn had also identified this sexual
| blackmail operation as being part of the anti-communist
| crusade of the time.
|
| The fact that Cohn, per Rothstein's recollection, stated that
| the child sex blackmail ring was part of the government-
| sponsored anti-communist crusade suggests that elements of
| the government, including Hoover's FBI, may have been
| connected at a much broader level than Hoover's own personal
| involvement, as the FBI closely coordinated with McCarthy and
| Cohn for much of the red scare."
| thrown_22 wrote:
| Ironically this could well be a brilliant counter
| intelligence post pretending to be as stupid as it sounds.
|
| What better way to make sure the FBI keeps removing
| people's freedom than by making it a partisan issue?
|
| Trump, born in 1943, was responsible for Hoovers cache of
| compromat. A word that entered the Russian lexicon because
| the KGB was so impressed by what he was doing in Washington
| in the 1930s.
| int_19h wrote:
| Is there any evidence that the word has entered the
| Russian lexicon from English? The Russian "kompromat"
| feels like a straightforward contraction of
| "komprometiruiushchie materialy", following the same
| pattern as many other Soviet neologisms like "narkom" or
| "kombed".
| thrown_22 wrote:
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-does-
| komp...
|
| >Kompromat refers to materials collected specifically for
| the purpose of blackmailing the target. It's a Russian
| portmanteau of komprometiruyushchiy, "compromising," and
| material, "material," and if those Russian words look
| familiar, it's because they are; they were borrowed into
| Russian from English.
|
| The sheer stupidity of two nations borrowing a word from
| the other to sound smarter and more worldly ought to blow
| your mind. But it happens so often that anyone who is
| polylingual just has to deal with it.
|
| The worst example is Latinx. Americans who wanted to
| cosmopolitan in the 90s decided that Latin wasn't good
| enough since everyone knew what Latin meant. So they
| started saying Latino instead. With the 10s craze of
| gender neutrality Latino was now problematic so it was
| changed to Latinx only in the way someone who has never
| passed high school Spanish could. Now instead of the
| English word Latin we have the abomination Latinx being
| forced on Spanish speakers by English speakers in the
| name of progress.
| int_19h wrote:
| Merriam-Webster is certainly not a reliable source when
| it comes to etymology of non-English words.
|
| I'm Russian myself, and I find it extremely dubious that
| either of the constituent parts of the word was borrowed
| into Russian from English. Russian Wiktionary gives 1720
| for the first known use of "material" (material), and
| illustrates "komprometiruiushchii" (compromising) with a
| Dostoyevsky quote from 1846. Both predate the time when
| English was the primary source of borrowings, so they're
| far more likely to have been borrowed from French or
| German.
|
| This M-W article is wrong about other things, too - e.g.
| "propaganda" (propaganda) is from German.
| arminiusreturns wrote:
| Merely mentioning Trump doesnt make the post partisan at
| all. On the contrary, I think its obvious compromise
| operations target everyone, in both parties (and
| business, etc) So Im not sure what you are getting at.
| Seems like you are strawmanning (things I didnt say)
| unless Im misunderstanding your point.
| Managor wrote:
| The words FBI and Child so close together make me a bit
| squeamish.
| nly wrote:
| What's the point in this app? Surely most mothers/fathers have
| pictures of their kids on their phone these days anyway
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| After the July 4 mass shooting a 2 year old was found wondering
| the scene unattended. He was safely returned to relatives. Sure
| I have pictures of my kids but am I alive to display them?
|
| https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62047223
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| > _Sure I have pictures of my kids but am I alive to display
| them?_
|
| So how does this app help?
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| A lot of people have social media, or send photos to their
| family. My wife and myself send photos of our baby to close
| relatives across the country all the time. I know every
| situation is different though. It's an unmaintained app is
| another issue.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Doesn't that demonstrate the app _isn 't_ needed?
| ct0 wrote:
| Security theater
| bad416f1f5a2 wrote:
| Who is going to unlock your phone to open the app when you
| are dead?
| kuramitropolis wrote:
| Face ID
| fortuna86 wrote:
| Grim.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| From some of the photos of the scene, that's... not gonna
| work on some of the victims.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| The same reason the government produces actually half decent
| financial literacy courses aimed from kids to adults. The same
| reason the CDC has instructions on how to brush your teeth. The
| same reason why the FDA will literally give you cooking tips
| for peas.
|
| There is some class of people out there who don't understand or
| aren't capable and the government is acting as a gap filler.
| ren_engineer wrote:
| when's the FBI going to start charging Epstein's clients? I'll
| use their app when they start arresting those people instead of
| hiding their identities
| pettycashstash2 wrote:
| While i understand the skepticism, at least they are trying to
| streamline a process. a quick search reveals the startling
| statistic:
|
| Every 40 seconds, a child goes missing or is abducted in the
| United States. Approximately 840,000 children are reported
| missing each year. having access to rapid id/photo. Minutes are
| precious. I'm no expert but + for fbi, minus for the cynics. Just
| my 2 cents
| johnbellone wrote:
| I do not think that access to digital photos and measurements
| has been a limiting factor in finding abductees. In fact, with
| the ubiquity of cameras on nearly every device nowadays along
| with social media we routinely see amateurs dig up information
| faster than authorities are able to put it out officially.
| [deleted]
| ceejayoz wrote:
| That stat isn't as startling as it seems when you dig in; most
| of those are custody disputes.
|
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/most-kidnapped-childr...
|
| > But contrary to the dominant narrative, nearly all child
| abductions are perpetrated by family members. Stranger
| abductions -- certainly alarming and tragic -- actually occur
| with "lightning-strike rarity," as a report in the journal
| Criminal Justice Studies put it, in contrast to the more than
| 200,000 parental abductions committed each year that meet the
| criminal criteria and are not merely delayed visitations or
| misunderstandings.
|
| And the 840k number massively overstates actual active cases;
| reports can be solved in a matter of minutes/hours, like a lost
| kid at an amusement park.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-us-missing/fact-ch...
|
| > Therefore, of the 365,348 missing children (between the age
| of 0 and 17) reports recorded in 2020, only 30,396 - or about
| 8% - were still active cases at the end of the year.
|
| (Good luck explaining that to a QAnoner, though.)
| usrn wrote:
| ceejayoz wrote:
| I don't think "prevent divorced couples from hating each
| other afterwards" is all that high on the QAnon priority
| list.
| Akronymus wrote:
| I find it sad that nowadays it seems that divorce is
| pushed for, rather than trying to reconcile/rebuild a
| healthy relationship.
|
| A LOT of problems are caused by a lack of at least one
| parent/parental role.
| usrn wrote:
| 1) How many QAnon followers do you know? I know quite a
| few IRL.
|
| 2) Preventing divorce in the first place certainly is.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| > Preventing divorce in the first place certainly is.
|
| Via which specific policies?
|
| Simply bemoaning "urban" people's "broken families"
| doesn't count, and they might start with their favorite
| President's marriages.
| TrueGeek wrote:
| That stat is shared among parents so much. "840,000 missing a
| year" in a nation of 73 million children is interpreted as
| meaning in any given year you have a 1 in 87 chance of never
| seeing your child again at any given time.
|
| My brother won't return his shopping cart to the shopping
| cart return area because, in those 30 seconds where his back
| is turned, someone is likely to take his children. One parent
| told me they take it one step further and they won't use
| passenger door to put their children in the car. Instead,
| they reach through the car from the driver's door. This way
| they don't have to walk around the car which would allow
| someone to take their child.
|
| I've suggested just locking the children in the car but it
| seems like solving the wrong problem, really.
| rlt wrote:
| > One parent told me they take it one step further and they
| won't use passenger door to put their children in the car.
| Instead, they reach through the car from the driver's door.
| This way they don't have to walk around the car which would
| allow someone to take their child.
|
| This is borderline mental illness.
| [deleted]
| ComputerCat wrote:
| Interesting idea. Not sure how well it will be adopted by the
| public though...
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Clearly the optimal solution is RFID subdermal microchipping for
| all children, isn't it? Technology exists for boosted RFID
| (basically a tiny battery and solar PV linked to the RFID tag)
| which should work under the skin fairly well. Then install
| scanners at all public venues and schools, and link to the NSA
| database out in Utah, so that everyone can be safely location-
| tracked at all times. Removing the chip would of course be a
| felony.
|
| Why stop there? Facial recognition, retina scan, DNA marker
| databases... a personalized AI minder for each troublesome human
| being (oh, that's your Alphabet/Meta tracker & recommendation
| algorithm, isn't it)?
|
| This of course is all for the safety of the children and the FBI
| would never dream of using it to spy on citizens for political
| reasons, or implement a Chinese style social-credit system, or to
| ensure you're watching your daily dose of Orwellian positivity
| content.
| azinman2 wrote:
| This kind of attitude takes all the oxygen out of the room and
| makes it impossible to actually do good.
| buscoquadnary wrote:
| Exactly finally someone gets it, and for all you people who are
| opposed you're probably just a drug dealer or a terrorist,
| after all only drug dealers and terrorists have something to
| hide, every good citizen should want something like that.
|
| I mean what's more important you're imaginary freedom, or being
| able to bring porch pirates to justice?
| whoomp12342 wrote:
| is this a joke?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-07-06 23:02 UTC)