[HN Gopher] He dropped out to become a poet - now he's won a Fie...
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       He dropped out to become a poet - now he's won a Fields Medal
        
       Author : digital55
       Score  : 302 points
       Date   : 2022-07-05 07:31 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.quantamagazine.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.quantamagazine.org)
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | This shows the power of IQ. Having a sufficiently high IQ means
       | you can become a world-class master at a hard subject quickly,
       | easily surpassing others who have decades of experience. It's the
       | ultimate cheat code or power-up in life, second to have rich and
       | well-connected parents, I suppose. Freddie Deboer is right that
       | parents consider IQ to be very important, as much as society may
       | try to downplay its importance or predictive value.
        
         | burntoutfire wrote:
         | Jordan Peterson always says that, when it comes to predicting
         | success in life, IQ has the highest predictive value of all the
         | traits that we can currently measure.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | Koreans might be discouraged there because their national
           | example didn't do anything with his IQ.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Ung-yong
           | 
           | The other problem being that "high IQ explains everything"
           | people don't actually go around personally going around
           | giving people IQ tests. They just read somewhere that X guy
           | has IQ Y and then decide that's evidence for something.
        
       | gfd wrote:
       | "Good, he did not have enough imagination to become a
       | mathematician.
       | 
       | [Upon hearing that one of his students had dropped out to study
       | poetry]"
       | 
       | -- David Hilbert
        
       | ken47 wrote:
       | This passage caught my attention:
       | 
       |  _He proceeds just as deliberately when doing mathematics. Wang
       | was shocked when he first witnessed it. "I have this math
       | competition experience, that as a mathematician you have to be
       | clever, you have to be fast," he said. "But June is the opposite.
       | ... If you talk to him for five minutes about some calculus
       | problem, you'd think this guy wouldn't pass a qualifying exam.
       | He's very slow." So slow, in fact, that at first Wang thought
       | they were wasting a lot of time on easy problems they already
       | understood. But then he realized that Huh was learning even
       | seemingly simple concepts in a much deeper way -- and in
       | precisely the way that would later prove useful._
       | 
       | Having gone through the American education system, I felt like I
       | was in a factory being evaluated as a potential end product.
       | Steamroll through as much material as quickly as possible.
       | Optimize behavioral patterns for the next performance metric.
       | Rinse and repeat. Is this really the best system we can come up
       | with? Can the pace of mathematical and scientific advancement be
       | optimized by steamrollers? I wonder how much potential we've
       | missed as a society because the education system has been trying
       | to force everyone through the same hole, and destroying
       | intellectual curiosity in the process.
       | 
       | Personally, my experience with this educational system turned me
       | off from "math." It was only much later in life when I learnt
       | that the mindless algorithms that I had to personally execute for
       | years on end to get into university could barely be considered
       | math at all. Only then could I begin to appreciate how elegant
       | real math could be. And I doubt I'm alone in my experience.
        
         | buchoo wrote:
         | That passage reminded me of a remark by the 2002 French Fields
         | Medalist Laurent Lafforgue:
         | 
         | "My specificity today among French mathematicians is not to
         | know more mathematics than others, I can even admit that I know
         | less mathematics than most French and foreign mathematicians.
         | It's not about being 'great' either, I'm not great at all, on
         | the contrary I have a rather slow mind. When I listen to a
         | seminar, I'm probably one of those who understand the least
         | what is being said: an idea in an hour, for me, that's already
         | a lot. No, the only explanation for the successes that I have
         | been able to obtain in mathematics is my being imbued by the
         | reading of the great classics."
         | 
         | https://www.biennale-lf.org/b22/index.php?p=https://www.bien...
         | 
         | As for your experience, you are indeed very far from alone.
        
           | ask_b123 wrote:
           | I wonder which great classics would those be.
        
             | buchoo wrote:
             | Not very specific, but he says:
             | 
             | "In my parents' house, there were a lot of books: all the
             | great authors of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries,
             | translated foreign authors. I spent my youth, and still
             | today I spend most of my time, reading literary works, and
             | particularly those of French literature."
        
               | adamsmith143 wrote:
               | He totally learned Abstract Algebra from Dumas.
        
               | Agingcoder wrote:
               | Thanks, this made made laugh :-)
        
               | Viliam1234 wrote:
               | The Three Musketeers -- Athos, Porthos, Aramis, and
               | D'Artagnan
               | 
               | If this doesn't make you think about math, nothing will.
        
         | nmfisher wrote:
         | I felt the same way, but interesting that he grew up in South
         | Korea. From what I gather, it's very similar to the Chinese
         | system over there, particularly when it comes to maths. Endless
         | rote learning and an overwhelming focus on standardized test
         | results, to the exclusion of the type of slow, deep, "playful"
         | learning referred to in the article.
        
         | Azrael3000 wrote:
         | Well if you look at todays economy what do companies require?
         | Fast and faster is the way. The schools are here to produce
         | fast workers. There's hardly a day a year where you can sit
         | down and work on a project without time pressure.
        
           | Viliam1234 wrote:
           | Ah, the pleasures of agile development! There is never time
           | to implement something properly, but at least we are sure
           | that all developers are kept busy every week.
           | 
           | If you think about the problem, discuss it, and then
           | implement the solution properly, it's only one ticket. But if
           | you make a half-assed solution, change it twice, and fix
           | seven related bugs, that is _ten_ tickets, with a potential
           | to make even more tickets in the future.
        
         | rfrey wrote:
         | My kid was enamored by math from the earliest age, and pretty
         | good at it too. He read proofs for fun at about age 6, and was
         | writing them for fun by 7. Calculation seemed to come pretty
         | easy to him as well.
         | 
         | But he is slow! He did a bunch of cognitive tests where he was
         | testing 3rd std deviation on most tasks. Except processing
         | speed, where he was in the 2nd percentile. You'd present him
         | with his times tables, and he would take 15 seconds to get
         | "8x7"... but he didn't slow down as as the psychiatrist
         | progressed through the test. He'd get to some 6th grade
         | problem, and it'd be the same 15 seconds and blank look before
         | the solution came out. He was an O(1) machine with a huge
         | constant.
         | 
         | And school utterly killed his interest in math. From grade 2
         | onwards it was speed competitions and public humiliation in
         | front of his class. After grade 3 he refused to do anything
         | related to math outside of what's required because he was "way
         | to stupid for that".
        
           | colineartheta wrote:
           | I'm curious why you didn't get involved as the parent and
           | possibly engage his interest outside of the classroom, or
           | even put him in a different school or situation where he
           | wouldn't be humiliated? I'm sorry for how this is going to
           | sound, but your anecdote reads to me more that you killed his
           | interest in math through your own (in)actions; the school
           | simply serves as a useful copout.
        
             | kshahkshah wrote:
             | I don't think the 6 year old was getting access to proofs
             | to read on their own. It sounds like OP very much did
             | encourage his interest.
        
           | Agingcoder wrote:
           | Laurent Schwartz (former fields medallist) states in his
           | autobiography (which I do recommend) that he was particularly
           | slow - however being slow doesn't mean you're bad. It just
           | means that you're slow, but this has no implication as to how
           | far you'll go!
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | make haste slowly
        
         | blabberwocky wrote:
         | Curiosity negative feedback loop aside, I wonder if the
         | steamrolling incentive is also why so many people eventually
         | "hit a wall" in their math studies. You can only get so far
         | without a solid base for a cumulative knowledge area like math.
         | 
         | The bar for SATs and similar college admissions tests is set
         | remarkably low, though, such that one may never run into this
         | problem without going into a mathy field. But it does seem like
         | a slow-and-steady approach taken by a greater number of people
         | could encourage more interest and deep thinking, and possibly a
         | greater contribution to the field and society overall.
        
           | Viliam1234 wrote:
           | > I wonder if the steamrolling incentive is also why so many
           | people eventually "hit a wall" in their math studies. You can
           | only get so far without a solid base for a cumulative
           | knowledge area like math.
           | 
           | There is a known (but mostly ignored) educational method
           | called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastery_learning -- you
           | should teach kids until they _actually get it_ , and only
           | then move to the next lesson. This method may be slower at
           | the start, but later gains speed because kids with solid
           | background understand the new concepts faster, and do not
           | need to relearn the old concepts all the time.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | Without school systems failures, there's a value in not
         | rushing. I used to be quick, I'd iterate thousands of times in
         | my head, until I could find an answer. But I didn't grasp the
         | breadth of mathematical beauty, the coherence of abstractions,
         | the various ways to interpret them, play with them. I was
         | obsessed by finding "one answer".
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | I am both a slow thinker and forgetful, but I've learned that
         | those are not required skills for being good at maths.
         | 
         | When I started my undergrad in maths (in the UK) they gave us a
         | day 1 test to check we could recall certain pre-requisites from
         | school. I did poorly because I had forgotten all the tricks for
         | those particular exam questions and was put in an additional
         | "catch up" class. It was a real gut punch and I questioned
         | whether I was cut out for maths at all. Fast-forward six years
         | and I ended up with a PhD in pure maths from the same
         | university. Turned out that when given the time to read and
         | think at my own pace and allowed reference to books and my own
         | notes I was pretty good at abstract math.
         | 
         | Fast-forward another ~15 years and I'm a machine learning
         | researcher for a SV company. The same issue rears it's head now
         | as an inability to contribute usefully in meetings. I can't
         | think fast enough to keep up and don't have anything useful to
         | say when put on the spot. I much prefer to read written
         | communication and take the time to formulate my responses. This
         | is not the company culture though, so I do suffer problems with
         | effective collaboration.
        
           | lordnacho wrote:
           | This thread struck a nerve with me. As a kid I loved math,
           | did all the math contest stuff, even won one at one point,
           | skipped a year in math. I went to visit my old retired math
           | teacher a couple of weeks ago, he's in his 80s.
           | 
           | In school I never had a problem with speed or understanding,
           | nor at university. But what hit me was the realization that
           | "actual math" is probably not a load of little riddles. I
           | often wondered how I'd ever solve something that someone
           | hadn't contrived to have an elegant solution, something
           | completely new and insightful that nobody had proven before.
           | There's quite a leap from your tricky olympiad problem that
           | you can find a good video for, and proofs of things in higher
           | math.
           | 
           | The other thing that struck me was that our current system
           | destroys all appreciation for beauty. There's so many
           | beautiful things in math, but we're forced to calculate,
           | quickly. Especially in the engineering side I went into, it
           | ended up becoming very mechanical.
        
           | filipmrc wrote:
           | Your post made me create an account because I'm in a very
           | similar situation. I was not "good" at math until later years
           | of undergrad, where more abstract topics made me fall in love
           | with it. I never could follow courses by going to class and
           | had a much easier time just reading and taking notes. I'm now
           | finishing a robotics PhD where I had the opportunity to do
           | pretty well as a slow thinker by taking the time to
           | understand and apply concepts from computational algebraic
           | geometry.
           | 
           | Currently I'm doing an ML research internship at a SV company
           | and this problem of "slowness" at meetings is really
           | resonating with me. I have a hard time following quick verbal
           | communication, I just need the time to think in order to
           | contribute. I don't know it's like I just phase out or forget
           | what we were talking about.
           | 
           | Have you found any useful techniques to do better in this
           | type of environment? Is there any advice you would give your
           | younger self?
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | The modern world wants you to be spontaneously correct. To
           | answer quickly and confidently. To be thoughtful without
           | thinking about it.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Good thing. If he had dropped out to become a programmer, be
       | probably would have ended up addicted like the rest of us :)
        
         | rrishi wrote:
         | need a clarification ... addicted to what?
        
           | rizzaxc wrote:
           | to money and a lazy life I assume
        
       | sam_lowry_ wrote:
        
         | spaceman_2020 wrote:
         | I come to HN for such nuanced insight /s
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | Nor is "developer" if we go by the traditional definition of
         | the professions.
        
         | cinntaile wrote:
         | If you get paid for it, it is.
        
         | aqme28 wrote:
         | If you can get paid to do it, is it not a profession?
        
           | circlefavshape wrote:
           | I'd have thought a profession was something you made a living
           | from, not something you sometimes got some money for - I
           | sometimes get paid to play music in bars, but music is not my
           | profession. Neither Philip Larkin nor Seamus Heaney made a
           | living from poetry, so I'd guess nobody else does either
        
           | martyvis wrote:
           | Depends on how you think about the act of professing. Taking
           | it literally it would be those that profess - articulate,
           | exude, demonstrate, apply - their knowledge, skill and
           | experience. Remuneration could be seen as irrelevant in this
           | context.
        
         | FreakLegion wrote:
         | _" 'Poet' must be used cautiously; it names an aspiration, not
         | an occupation. In other words: not a noun for a passport."_ --
         | Louise Gluck
         | 
         | Your statement is too short to read much into, but I'm amused
         | at the negative response given its similarity to Gluck's. For
         | anyone who doesn't know, Gluck is a former US Poet Laureate and
         | won the 2020 Nobel Prize in Literature.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | There was also a Twitter incident where a poetry magazine
           | editor got cancelled and lost their job for saying that most
           | people don't read poetry.
           | 
           | https://www.dailydot.com/unclick/barren-poetry-magazine-
           | fire...
        
             | seoaeu wrote:
             | > I want to be very explicit that I didn't get 'cancelled'.
             | Everyone made a series of decisions and those decisions
             | have consequences. That's it. It is merely consequential.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder, but that seems
               | like a situation where they'd want to be careful not to
               | hurt their industry relationships, or end up right-wing-
               | coded by becoming "cancelled".
        
         | vivegi wrote:
         | At least in the Indian film industry, we have songs and
         | lyricists. Popular music may call them songwriters. Many
         | lyricists are published poets and identify their vocation as a
         | poet/writer.
        
       | Markoff wrote:
       | Ah yeah, everyone quickly drop out to be successful... /facepalm
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
        
         | ktownsend wrote:
         | I can empathize with the gut reaction, and the title is
         | clickbait-y, but the article does elaborate that it's not the
         | same tired trope of privileged kid drops out of
         | Stanford/MIT/Harvard to become startup billionaire:
         | 
         | > he dropped out of high school to become a poet. It would take
         | a chance encounter during his university years -- and many
         | moments of feeling lost -- for him to find that mathematics
         | held what he'd been looking for all along.
         | 
         | Having taken a similar path myself -- I dropped out of high
         | school due to a combination of factors, but was still able to
         | get into university 6 months later -- I can empathize with
         | mandatory education NOT being something people fit into, and
         | where making the right career choice isn't always clear or
         | easy.
         | 
         | Not everyone who 'dropped out' did it because of unlimited mom-
         | and-dad-money and boundless professional and social
         | opportunities, nor wears it like a badge of honor.
         | 
         | I get tired of the trope and survivorship bias as well, but in
         | this case it seems like the author did still put in the hard
         | work of learning his niche the traditional way, if in a round-
         | about manner: through a lot of hours of study, personal
         | investment, natural curiosity, and using the abilities he has
         | to the best of his abilities.
        
           | tester756 wrote:
           | >but was still able to get into university 6 months later
           | 
           | How does that even work?
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | Some countries' systems rely on entrance exams, not your
             | high school transcripts. I've seen it claimed it's common
             | to drop out of high school in Korea to focus on the exams,
             | though I don't really understand the details.
        
         | bsaul wrote:
         | I must say after reading the article that i don't even
         | understand the title.. He seemed to have done a regular maths
         | curriculum at university.
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | "it feels like you're grabbing something that's already there,
       | rather than creating something in your mind."
       | 
       | This is why the conceit of "intellectual property" has always
       | bothered me. I relate to what he describes as "finding things".
       | Those things are are eternally "out there" for all to find. I can
       | put up a signpost or build a road to show you the way, but how
       | can a mere man _own_ what is part of the infinite and eternal?
        
         | justsomeguy123 wrote:
         | But you don't "own" that. You get a temporary rent. The problem
         | is society (and tech) moves so fast it feels like the rent is
         | too long.
         | 
         | The idea to incentivize public sharing of knowledge for a short
         | term rent is not so stupid.
        
           | nwah1 wrote:
           | In economics there is a concept called "search costs." And
           | those costs need to be compensated if you want to encourage
           | searching. But, of course, as you said, such compensation
           | should not be in perpetuity. A patent, in this sense, is
           | infinitely more reasonable than a land title as currently
           | conceived.
        
             | andrepd wrote:
             | Henry George would agree :p
        
         | slightwinder wrote:
         | Ownership is a legal right. You found/created it, so society
         | gives you the right to rule about it's usage for a certain
         | time. The same applies to physical objects. You own something,
         | because society gives you the permission, not because you have
         | the actual power to protect it with your own muscles.
         | 
         | And there is nothing wrong with this concept; it encourages
         | people to search and create, and prevents people from being
         | abused by the strong and getting their findings stolen.
         | Generally, this is beneficial for everyone and lets society
         | moving forward and to higher levels of quality.
        
         | bluecalm wrote:
         | It's hard to say a novel you can write or a computer program is
         | "out there" for everyone to find though. I find this argument
         | very compelling against patents but not against copyright in
         | general.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | keiferski wrote:
         | This assumes that Platonism is the correct model of reality. In
         | mathematics specifically, Platonism is but one of many
         | positions and is not accepted by all philosophers or
         | mathematicians.
         | 
         | https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/philosophy-mathematics/
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | But Platonism is not a model of anything at all. It's just a
           | philosophical idea which, by the way, has no impact on
           | mathematics proper, either.
        
             | keiferski wrote:
             | Platonism is a metaphysical model of the universe. It's
             | also one of the most popular approaches to the philosophy
             | of mathematics. This is explained in the link I posted.
        
               | Koshkin wrote:
               | In the link, they only talk about "models of a theory"
               | and the "mathematical/set-theoretical universe," none of
               | which has to do with "a metaphysical model of the
               | universe."
        
               | keiferski wrote:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonism
               | 
               | This is...basic philosophical knowledge about Plato's
               | ideas. It's not up for debate.
        
         | InefficientRed wrote:
         | Interestingly, patent law agrees with you -- mathematical
         | theorems, for example, cannot be patented.
         | 
         | In principle, a patent should cover specific
         | machinery/process/material designed for a task rather than the
         | underlying more ephemeral/indefinite concept powering the
         | invention.
         | 
         | The interesting thing is that, of those, machine and process
         | seem like the least conceited. Composition of matter seems more
         | like sticking a flag in infinite ground. But in practice it's
         | the former two that power most of what I consider an abuse of
         | the spirit of patent law. But perhaps that's just my personal
         | bias and the bio or materials people will disagree.
         | 
         | What can we say? Profit motive is a strong incentive and
         | lawyers/judges are clever.
         | 
         | Anyways, with 7B people and counting, a term limited right to
         | one idea in the infinite space of ideas seems less harmful than
         | perpetual rights to a piece of land.
        
           | onedognight wrote:
           | > seems less harmful than perpetual rights to a piece of
           | land.
           | 
           | Interestingly, society agrees with you; for the most part, we
           | don't grant perpetual rights to a piece of land. Instead we
           | charge property tax to ensure you are doing something
           | productive with it. You have to generate enough free cash
           | flow to pay the taxes or you lose the land.
        
           | j-pb wrote:
           | Except that they are in the form of software patents.
           | 
           | We live in this complexity nightmare partly because all the
           | simple and obvious solutions are easily patented.
        
         | gsatic wrote:
         | Maybe question could be - what to do about those people who
         | have high loss aversion, status seeking traits, mindless
         | ambition etc baked deep into their code? How to handle these
         | type of people when they stumble upon something useful to
         | everyone.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | That's actually a refreshing way of looking at something. The
           | pathologically acquisitive are naturally a small part of the
           | population suffering insecurity, often driven by early
           | deprivation. Our natural instinct is to share intelligence,
           | wrt food, predators, resources.
           | 
           | I have a theory that the misnomer "intellectual property" is
           | most ardently championed by (perhaps older)
           | intelligent/creative people who fear losing their power. Fear
           | that this may be their last great idea fosters withholding
           | and subtracts from the opportunities of the many.
           | 
           | This comes up in other contexts. In cybersecurity, if one
           | discovers a new exploit the natural instinct for most people
           | is responsible disclosure, even without a bounty. However,
           | the temptation to privatise that knowledge as a sellable
           | "zero-day" is powerful. But what we see is that it's the
           | mediocre who do that more. Top 0.1% hackers are so confident
           | in their ability to find more and deadlier exploits at will,
           | they don't hoard as it's beneath them.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | That logic applies as well to minerals and fossils as to
         | inventions. If I stumble upon a lump of gold, how can I _own_
         | it? After all, it was merely "out there" to find.
         | 
         | Also, the question whether math is discovered or invented is an
         | old one, with arguments going either way. It's not like people
         | just stumble upon certain proofs, or that Newton was just
         | lucky.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mathematics#Math...
         | , for example, holds that math would still exist if there were
         | no life anywhere in the universe (maybe even if there were no
         | universe)
        
       | DecayingOrganic wrote:
       | Although this article is well-written, I'm not convinced that he
       | was "lost," or that he didn't really like math, based only on a
       | few anecdotal stories. Furthermore, the article says that "he
       | dropped out of high school to become a poet," but please note
       | that, a number of students drop out of high school in South Korea
       | to fully focus on the college entrance exam, in hopes of getting
       | into better universities. This is not uncommon at all. And sure
       | enough, he got accepted into the best university in South Korea,
       | majoring in astronomy and physics. One of his classes was even
       | taught by a Fields Medalist. If this is his definition of "being
       | lost," I'm not sure if I'll ever be found.
        
         | zahllos wrote:
         | I can believe he wasn't sure mathematics was his calling during
         | high school. I wasn't sure I would do a degree in mathematics
         | until near the end, then I did (am no way near a fields
         | medalist). But this is time up to 18-19. There's a lot of time
         | after that.
         | 
         | However he took a course high in mathematical content and it
         | sounds like he must have switched to mathematics for grad
         | school, I.e. after his undergraduate or masters. In other
         | words, he did the preparation. If it is anything like physics
         | courses I have seen they feature a lot of mathematics courses
         | anyway.
         | 
         | Some people have a lot of natural ability in mathematics but
         | this is not enough to do good research. There's no way around
         | hard work.
         | 
         | Also, dropping out of high school in many places significantly
         | reduces your chances of going to university because you do the
         | qualifications you need at the high school equivalent.
        
         | muh_gradle wrote:
         | No even by Korean high school standards, he definitely had an
         | unconventional path. Huh landing in Seoul National University
         | is definitely a result of his pure, raw talent. But while it's
         | not uncommon to graduate in 6 years in South Korea, I doubt
         | anyone would have anticipated a Fields medal when he was
         | rejected by all the US doctoral programs save UIUC. He is
         | obviously beyond gifted, but he didn't take a conventional path
         | to math.
        
           | adamsmith143 wrote:
           | It just points to faults in the University system. If no
           | University in the US could adequately judge his talent, how
           | many other potential Fields level Mathematicians were also
           | missed?
        
             | jjtheblunt wrote:
             | It's interesting UIUC recognized it early
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | Kinda similar to the fault in interviewing for SW jobs as
             | well, right?
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | It would be a fault if there are examples of other systems
             | where there are zero chances of something like this
             | occurring.
        
               | adamsmith143 wrote:
               | So this system has no faults because other systems have
               | faults?
        
             | Hydraulix989 wrote:
             | It has to be a small number, given the rarity of the honor.
        
               | adamsmith143 wrote:
               | Fields level, meaning good enough to possibly win one.
               | Not necessarily actual winners.
        
         | nsxwolf wrote:
         | Nothing could have made me feel more mediocre or small than
         | reading this article. Was it supposed to inspire me?
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | it is called Quanta Magazine
        
           | strikelaserclaw wrote:
           | Why? From the article you can tell that he wasn't one of
           | those whiz kids who wins the IMO with a perfect score at age
           | 14. He seems like one of those guys who really thinks deeply
           | about something because they love the subject and not just to
           | arrive at an answer.
        
         | sicp-enjoyer wrote:
         | > One of his classes was even taught by a Fields Medalist.
         | 
         | Yeah, you don't "happen into" a course on algebraic geometry.
         | He must have dedicated a large amount of undergraduate courses
         | to math, or demonstrated aptitude in another way.
        
           | tooltalk wrote:
           | that's but the article also says "he had to retake several
           | courses." It's no fun "retaking classes."
        
         | thedailymail wrote:
         | There's a bit more detail about Huh's student days in this 2017
         | article. It does seem he was a real dropout, and aspiring poet
         | prior to thinking about becoming a sci/tech reporter. He joined
         | Hironaka's course thinking it would make a good journalistic
         | story.
         | 
         | https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-path-less-taken-to-the-peak...
        
         | ken47 wrote:
         | I can't say whether he disliked math, but I think it's clear
         | that he didn't want to pursue it initially, for practical
         | reasons if nothing else. As you can find in his bio on
         | Wikipedia, he performed poorly on mathematical aptitude tests
         | in elementary school, and so he thought he wouldn't be
         | particularly good at it. If these are the kinds of math tests
         | that I encountered as a kid (multiply, divide, solve single-
         | variable equations, etc. as fast as humanly possible), it's
         | unsurprising that he could still be good at abstract math,
         | because these 2 skillsets have almost nothing in common.
        
           | javajosh wrote:
           | _> these 2 skillsets have almost nothing in common_
           | 
           | Are you sure about that? I know at least some number theory
           | can help with quick mental calculations. For example, I
           | remember that if the digits of a number add to 9 the number
           | itself is divisible by 9. I'm sure there are lots of other
           | relationships like that.
        
             | timkam wrote:
             | Of course there is some correlation between the two
             | skillsets (with respect to ability): people who can
             | abstract well can also understand the underlying ideas that
             | are useful for fast calculation, and for both one needs to
             | have a reasonably good memory (to rely on in an exam and
             | when developing a mathematical intuition, respectively).
             | But to be the best in high school 'math' (calculation)
             | requires a degree of extrinsically-driven, dull discipline.
             | One can probably be best in class without taking this
             | degree to the extreme, but among the best in class, many
             | excel at exactly this (and not at abstract thinking), which
             | I find a bit troubling.
        
               | jacobr1 wrote:
               | The bigger tragedy is how widespread the belief that
               | calculation _is_ math. Even for the university educated,
               | the capstone mathematical course of often some version of
               | calculus ... it is even in the name!
               | 
               | Personally, my first introduction into the more abstract
               | mathematical concepts was a trigonometry class in high-
               | school and later was fortunate enough to take more
               | theoretical classes at university. It would be wonderful
               | to introduce some of the more accessible, elegant
               | concepts to kids at an earlier age.
        
               | mmmpop wrote:
               | Limits are taught in a way that gives the learner a taste
               | of higher math, but when I took university calculus at 18
               | I wasn't really enthused about the "beauty". 15 years
               | later I finally get it and am working my way into some
               | coursework that will require upward of real analysis, but
               | I wonder what changed in my brain to care all of a
               | sudden? How can I have been inspired earlier in my
               | life/career?
        
               | javajosh wrote:
               | This has happened to me several times over the years,
               | where some topic only half-understood in college suddenly
               | becomes clear. It feels as if some part of my mind was
               | slowly chewing on it all this time, and finally finished
               | its work.
        
       | option wrote:
       | Four people got Fields medal today, including second woman in its
       | history. Yet, HN discusses the article with catchiest title :D
       | 
       | https://www.quantamagazine.org/tag/2022-fields-and-abacus-me...
        
       | zuzuleinen wrote:
       | "He found the writing process too focused on the self -- and for
       | him, that exploration was often painful and depressing. Moreover,
       | as he later realized, "I wanted to be someone who writes great
       | poetry," he said. "I didn't want to write great poetry." Now he
       | sees that version of himself as almost a complete stranger."
       | 
       | That's the reason I deleted my personal blog. I felt that when I
       | was writing publicly about my life/thoughts I was focusing too
       | much on my ego.
        
         | chronofar wrote:
         | This is also why I never started a blog, and don't maintain any
         | social media accounts. Participating in forums like this
         | already drives some self-obsessive behavior (watching for
         | upvotes and proverbial nodding heads), but a pulpit I fear
         | would drive near incessant "audience awareness," a constant
         | reflection of my ego's shape as perceived by others. Our social
         | proclivities are to easily supercharged to neuroses with modern
         | technology.
         | 
         | Or maybe I'm just lazy.
        
           | zuzuleinen wrote:
           | Indeed, everytime I take a break from sharing posts on social
           | media I feel much better
        
             | shreyshnaccount wrote:
             | and i announce that by sharing a post that I'll be taking a
             | break. its kinda like toasting to that I'll stop drinking
             | the next morning. on a serious note tho, I don't really get
             | why he says that poetry places importance on the ego- maybe
             | it's a cultural difference, but a lot of great poems I'm
             | familiar with are about nature and made up characters etc.
             | tho i see how so many really really good poems throughout
             | history are an overblown retelling of what I can only
             | assume is the product of faith and mushrooms (looking at
             | you, Dante)
        
           | mgfist wrote:
           | That's funny, my reasoning comes from the opposite end of the
           | ego spectrum - creating a blog or any other kind of social
           | media presence means putting myself out there and inviting
           | attacks on my ego. So I avoid doing so to protect my ego.
           | Anytime I think of doing a writeup of something and sharing
           | online, my subconscious starts thinking about how people will
           | perceive and judge my work and I scram back into my ego
           | shelter. I won't have to face feedback and criticism if no
           | one hears about me or my work :D
        
           | mmmpop wrote:
           | > Or maybe I'm just lazy.
           | 
           | Hit me up if you figure this one out. I can't be bothered to
           | get my personal website back up and it's just an nginx
           | configuration away for about a year now.
        
         | dubeux wrote:
         | I think it's quite obvious we're working hard to build an ego-
         | centered, self-destructive society. While I wholeheartedly
         | agree with the idea of realising it, and trying not to endorse
         | it, I wonder if it wouldn't be healthier, more effective and
         | fulfilling to look for ways to make one's thoughts, ideas,
         | questions, epiphanies, ramblings somehow public, so that one
         | could eventually connect with like-minded, develop deeper
         | thoughts, relationships, actions, towards gathering some
         | meaning in life.
        
         | kkleindev wrote:
         | > I felt that when I was writing publicly about my
         | life/thoughts I was focusing too much on my ego.
         | 
         | Why do you want to avoid that?
        
           | noisy_boy wrote:
           | To avoid over-feeding the beast known as ego?
        
             | lupire wrote:
        
           | Agamus wrote:
           | Because ego is the enemy.
        
           | zuzuleinen wrote:
           | I felt I got into this point where everything was revolving
           | around me. It was all about "me, me, me". And at that time, I
           | suspected that most of my problems were generated by putting
           | my opinions/ego on a pedestal.
           | 
           | I still write sometimes when I want to clear things for
           | myself in a notebook nobody will see. I think it can be
           | therapeutic at times.
           | 
           | But I'm in a point in my life where I think I need to get
           | myself out of the way, be humble and enjoy everything else
           | _out_ there.
        
             | pqs wrote:
             | I'm glad you found this problem. I also had this problem
             | (me, me, me) and realizing this has improved my life and
             | the life of people surrounding me, a lot.
             | 
             | Our ego is not our friend.
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | > Moreover, as he later realized, "I wanted to be someone who
         | writes great poetry," he said. "I didn't want to write great
         | poetry."
         | 
         | I absolutely love this distinction.
         | 
         | In Polish there's a saying "Chce, ale mi sie nie chce." which
         | is hard to translate but it's something along the lines:
         | 
         | I want ... but I don't want to.
        
           | shreyshnaccount wrote:
           | thats seems like a very delightful phrase, can you share a
           | more in depth meaning?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | I want to write a book, But I don't want to write the
             | words.
             | 
             | I want to win the World Cup, but I'm not getting out of bed
             | to go to the gym.
             | 
             | I want to be rich and famous, but I don't want to do the
             | work.
             | 
             | I want to be a bride, but I don't want to build a
             | relationship.
             | 
             | I buy books but don't read them.
             | 
             | I buy tools and supplies but don't build.
             | 
             | I read books but don't do exercise.
             | 
             | I want to be a person who does great things, but in each
             | moment I don't do the work.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | shreyshnaccount wrote:
               | just that? felt it's a bit deeper
        
               | svnt wrote:
               | Here's an alternative: I wanted to be a magician, but
               | when started to learn how to cast spells I realized that
               | to become one I would have to embody the disenchantment
               | of my world.
        
           | corrral wrote:
           | How strange to see
           | 
           | That I'm exactly the person that I want to be
           | 
           | - Amanda Palmer, "In My Mind"
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | astrange wrote:
       | He has very good handwriting.
        
         | tarentel wrote:
         | It's really quite beautiful. All but one of my math professors
         | had terrible handwriting.
        
       | evermore99 wrote:
       | The new Norma Cenva - Butlerian Jihad Fank Herbert. The beginning
       | of time travel
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | evermore99 wrote:
       | The new Norma Cenva. Time travel beginning. Folding space.
       | Butlerian Jihad -Frank Herbert
        
       | amoghs wrote:
       | lol "later that year, Kim gave birth to their first son, Dan.
       | While in labor, she caught Huh doing math."
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | It's actually best practice to make the dad do something
         | pointless. It's not like he has anything better to do.
         | 
         | Traditionally this would be the midwife making him go out to
         | fetch hot water repeatedly.
        
         | BeetleB wrote:
         | Labor for the first kid is often long - over 24 hours is
         | common. There's nothing exceptional in what Huh did.
        
       | spraveenitpro wrote:
        
       | BigglesB wrote:
       | Don't want to "diagnose at a distance", but it's difficult to
       | read this and not see a lot of the guy's quirks as being quite
       | typical of someone incredibly smart who also has ADHD.
       | 
       | Also don't want to diminish his quite remarkable achievements in
       | any way, either!
        
         | ramraj07 wrote:
         | It's clear the article wanted to convey that as well (esp.
         | given the photo of his lecture notes).
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | Yes! I literally ctr-F'ed the comment section for ADHD to see
         | if someone had mentioned it already. I wonder if June himself
         | knows, because and ADHD diagnosis and treatment can majorly
         | help quality of life. Fortunately he seems to be already doing
         | decently.
        
       | gtsnexp wrote:
       | Interesting article highlighting the relevance of a having a good
       | mentor on early stages. However, I feel there is a slight issue
       | with the "he is a genius and geniuses don't have to work hard"
       | tone.
        
       | jdcampolargo wrote:
       | Why did he leave UIUC?
        
         | foldedcornice wrote:
         | His full reasoning wasn't reported on by Quanta, but an article
         | in 2017 noted that faculty from the University of Michigan
         | invited him to transfer after hearing his talk on his proof of
         | Read's conjecture.
         | 
         | From the older article [0]: "Soon after he posted his proof of
         | Read's conjecture, the University of Michigan invited Huh to
         | give a talk on his result. On December 3, 2010, he addressed a
         | room full of many of the same mathematicians who had rejected
         | his graduate school application a year earlier. By this point
         | Huh's talent was becoming evident to other mathematicians.
         | Jesse Kass was a postdoctoral fellow in mathematics at Michigan
         | at the time. Just before Huh's visit, a senior faculty member
         | encouraged Kass to watch the talk because '30 years from now
         | you can tell your grandchildren you saw Huh speak before he got
         | famous,' recalled Kass, who's now a professor at the University
         | of South Carolina.
         | 
         | "Huh's lecture did not disappoint.
         | 
         | "'The talk was somehow very polished and very clear; it just
         | went to the right points. It's a bit unusual for a beginning
         | graduate student to give such clean talks,' said Mircea
         | Mustata, a mathematician at Michigan.
         | 
         | "Following his talk, the Michigan faculty invited Huh to
         | transfer, which he did in 2011. By that point he'd learned that
         | Read's conjecture was a special case of a larger and more
         | significant problem -- the Rota conjecture.""
         | 
         | [0] https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-path-less-taken-to-the-
         | peak...
        
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