[HN Gopher] Ask HN: I'm disabled and out of money. Now what?
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Ask HN: I'm disabled and out of money. Now what?
TL;DR: I'm a founder who had some success, but now I'm disabled,
can't seem to hold down a job. I'm close to defaulting on my car. I
am (unsurprisingly) depressed. I need help but don't know where to
go. I spent the 2010s as a founder. My company was funded by YC
and several others. We were moderately successful but didn't see a
meaningful exit. After my startup failed, I started consulting to
pay the bills. In 2018 I started having problems with chronic pain
and gradually became less and less capable on the job. Consulting
gigs were letting me go because I couldn't keep up. The last time I
worked was over a year ago, and I finally exhausted my savings in
early June 2022. I live as cheaply as I possibly can at this
point. I live with family and only pay for absolute necessities. It
comes out between $1200 and $1500 per month. I'm in the US and I
have an application in for SSDI, but, from what I've heard, it's
very hard to get benefits, especially if you have an invisible
illness like chronic pain. It's likely that my application will be
initially denied and I will have to focus on an appeal. It could
take a year or more of fighting to be approved. I am selling some
of my old stuff on eBay but it's exhausting and frustrating given
my limitations. It's not sustainable. I have a car payment due
soon and I'm already behind by one. Worst of all, my life is
pretty drab at this point. I am obviously depressed. I see a
therapist and a psychiatrist but, fundamentally, the source of my
depression is the state of my life. I have nothing to look forward
to. I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects so I
at least have something to do with my time... I mostly watch TV,
play video games and lurk on the internet. It's absolutely soul
sucking. I think, given the right environment, I could finish a
weekly workload of a bit less than half-time and slowly re-learn
how to work again even with my limitations, but no one wants to
hire a middle-aged disabled person for part-time work. Further, all
of my experience is in startups and that makes me less palatable to
larger companies, but larger companies have more options to
accommodate disabled people. I don't know what to do. Has anyone
in the HN community been here? EDIT: A few people have asked what
I'd like to do if I were to work again. The answer is that I don't
know! Before I started having problems, I was a backend-centric
web developer but I'm pretty burned out on that these days. I've
always wanted to get into embedded, but I have no idea if I can
make a lateral move like that in my current state. Whatever I do,
it needs to be with someone who will give me the space to try and
fail and try again. That's really the main thing. Feel free to
EMAIL ME: tyvm for the shrimp at gmail dot com
Author : thrwtllwy
Score : 296 points
Date : 2022-07-04 16:49 UTC (6 hours ago)
| TimPC wrote:
| I'm sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world to
| be disabled in. While this can be challenging everywhere, the US
| is especially bad at providing adequate support, both financially
| and otherwise.
|
| What might help you is looking for a job with part time
| responsibilities and part time wages and investing full-time into
| that job if you need to to keep up. If this is viable for a tech
| role you're likely to easily afford your fairly modest lifestyle
| living with family. I know this sounds a bit depressing as you're
| essentially taking on a full-time schedule for part-time pay but
| it's better than not having a job at all. Other options include
| looking at work where pain isn't likely to substantially impair
| your performance so that you'd be able to get things done. This
| may involve drastic pay cuts as well, but again while you're
| living with family and have a modest lifestyle even a drastic pay
| cut from peak of the tech market can lead to affording what you
| need.
|
| As far as therapists go, I'd be considering reevaluating the ones
| I've talked to if you talked with them about your dwindling
| financial resources and none of them attempted to find an
| adequate solution or tried to help you get back on track. If you
| haven't mentioned it at all you may want to consider doing so if
| they might have useful advice.
|
| If all else fails, cut costs aggressively. The lack of freedom
| from not having your own car sucks but it's better than being
| bankrupt or cutting needed therapy (if a family member can drive
| you there). If cutting a car is absolutely impossible for your
| life then it seems essential to figure out what work you can
| manage to handle and seek employment in that quickly.
| askafriend wrote:
| > I'm sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world
| to be disabled in.
|
| At least in the USA, the ADA ensures that many places are built
| to be wheelchair-accessible; bathrooms in public places have
| accommodations, grocery stores have ramps, stairs always have
| an alternative, etc
|
| I'm pretty sure in most countries in the world, mobility would
| be far lower for the disabled.
| epgui wrote:
| > I'm sorry you live in one of the worst countries in the world
| to be disabled in.
|
| The US is such a bad country by almost any fundamental
| metric... I think it's just a matter of time before its
| economic privilege implodes.
| RickJWagner wrote:
| Yes, the pain would clearly be much less if OP were elsewhere.
|
| It's why the US border is clogged with people trying to get in.
| They hate the better care elsewhere, obviously.
|
| Yeesh.
| TimPC wrote:
| Well he's already mentioned his disability will be denied by
| the state and that he will have to appeal. Most countries
| don't have a default policy of assuming disability claims are
| fraudulent and doing everything in their power to minimize
| them. So there is that.
|
| The fact that you have one border with one country that is
| significantly behind you economically and people cross that
| border to try and find a better life is not evidence you're
| the best place ever. Maybe Mexico is a hellhole and America
| is thoroughly mediocre but still better than a hellhole. Most
| people in most parts of the west won't trade their rights and
| benefits for the American side of the equation. The world is
| watching in disbelief as your Supreme Court sets you back 50
| years on basic bodily autonomy, freedom from religious
| coercion, or the ability to have environmental standards.
| People of the world mostly don't want to trade their rights
| for whatever rights Christian Facists deem acceptable.
| Dangeranger wrote:
| Could you volunteer any of your time to help an organization that
| does something that is important to you? If you can, I would
| recommend connecting to a non-profit or public benefit
| organization and seeing if they have needs that you can fill,
| even on a limited time basis. If possible, try and do this in-
| person, so that you can see the fruits of your work, and the
| witness the appreciation of those who receive it.
|
| Volunteering to help others has several benefits; You will have a
| tangible and meaningful impact on others; You will see that your
| skills are useful, and you are capable of employing them; You
| will form real human connections with other people in a context
| different than the one you're currently experiencing.
|
| Another outcome of helping other people is that you will form a
| network people who know about you and what you can do. It's
| possible to use that network to earn a modest living, doing side
| jobs and small contracts. This is not the end-game of
| volunteering, that is still the help you provide to others, but
| it's a nice side-effect anyways.
|
| Since you are someone with technology skills, I can tell you that
| there are many non-profit organizations who need a little bit of
| tech help, or a lot of tech help, and cannot find someone to do
| the things they need for nothing, or a even a reasonable amount
| of money. Don't be afraid to work for free, the thanks you will
| get are more than worth it.
|
| There's a talk by Sandie Metz that I've shared with a lot of
| people called "Madame Sandie tells your future"[0] and I would
| give that a watch, it's quite inspirational and may help you to
| shift your perspective in a way that helps.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOM5_V5jLAs&t=216s
| mehulashah wrote:
| Hang in there. You have the courage and intelligence to write
| such a thoughtful and articulate message. There's fight left in
| you yet. Reach out to me directly, and I'm happy to just talk.
| You can find me online as I'm a member of the Sort Benchmark
| committee. We as a community are here for you.
| karlkatzke wrote:
| Lots of good advice already, but if I can make another one --
| find a different type of company to work for/with. Not all
| companies are, can be, or need to be the go hard get big get out
| YC companies. I don't really like or work for those companies
| anymore. They chew people up and spit them out.
|
| There's tons of small companies that have real products and that
| are profitable but are structured with much more realistic growth
| expectations and targets. I work for one that is largely
| homebound or disabled people. We work when we're able to, we
| don't stress much when we can't work, and we do good work.
| Madmallard wrote:
| Same, disabled. Luckily I paid into insurance and got disability
| coverage but even still it isn't enough to make ends meet in Los
| Angeles. I haven't found a solution. It sounds like you're doing
| better in some regards. I would say do what you can to improve
| your situation like the claim and what not as early as possible
| and say fuck you to the negative self talk that might be holding
| you back from getting help. Talk to some disability advocates or
| lawyers to help out as well.
| abirch wrote:
| I've heard that SSDI with a lawyer is much more doable than
| without one.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Absolutely get an attorney, they will collect when you are
| approved. My mother waited years for her SSDI denials to be
| appealed, and died in the interim before the issue was
| resolved.
|
| Start the process ASAP. With an attorney with good
| recommendations from others.
|
| EDIT: AARP link because it was the least biased piece of info
| I could find on the topic that wasn't a lead or referral
| generator: https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-
| security/questions-an...
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| First: I have become an evangelist for disability insurance. I
| know it sucks but total award amounts seem to be higher and
| more sustainable.
|
| LA would be hard, I feel for you.
|
| Any suggestion on advocacy programs? I am in the Midwest if
| that helps.
|
| I know that this depends on specific impairments, but have you
| found ways to do things you enjoy? This is the hardest thing
| for me right now: I don't want to spend the rest of my life
| watching TV.
| Madmallard wrote:
| I do creative things I enjoy but I am unable to be really be
| physically active. I'm not really adjusted to the situation
| regardless, so I hope it changes for the better in the future
| but for now it is a plight.
|
| Maybe you want to pursue a creative endeavor. Piano, art, and
| game development (albeit at a very slow pace and
| intermittently) have been helpful for me.
| specialist wrote:
| Prior to my last surgery, I got a high energy puppy. Total
| PITA. Saved my life. Hard to stay in bed when the doggo needs
| another walk.
| aquadoggy wrote:
| I want to present you with the Gate Theory of Pain [0].
|
| Think of an area of your body as only being able to transmit one
| signal to your brain at a time, i.e., only one signal may pass
| through the gate. If you are experiencing chronic pain in an
| area, you can apply a different (non painful) stimulus to attempt
| to override the painful stimulus. To achieve this, many
| physicians recommend wearing and applying a TENS unit
| (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation) to the areas you
| experience pain. It is around $30 on amazon. Cheap solution that
| is worth a try.
|
| There is more to say on this topic, and I am happy to discuss
| further. I wish you all the best.
|
| [0] https://www.physio-pedia.com/Gate_Control_Theory_of_Pain
| LunarCamper wrote:
| I was in a similar situation, minus the physical disability (I
| was mentally in a really bad place though). The only advise I
| have is to not think of any job as below you. I don't know your
| exact situation or your disabilities, but if you can deliver
| pizzas to at least keep your head above the water, do that.
| Having gone through YC you're obviously also a bright and
| intelligent person, how many different companies have you tried
| consulting for? Some companies could be more understanding than
| others of your situation, in which cases making 1500 a month
| shouldn't be a huge problem in this industry. Sorry you're going
| through this friend..
| lumost wrote:
| It's also worth considering whether providing a lower going
| rate and longer duration of work would be effective. For some
| projects it may be possible to effectively work half time.
|
| I've met folks in unusual industries that need ongoing tech
| work/knowledge but have no desire to have this knowledge and
| effort in house. Medical device manufacturing was one such
| field. (work was government compliance, and server
| patching/network maintenance)
| poochkoishi728 wrote:
| Would you have any suggestions for finding work in fields
| like this? As a developer (mobile with some web and backend),
| I would love to have ongoing part-time work to provide enough
| income and free time to pursue other projects.
| lumost wrote:
| These jobs are generally considered full time and may even
| have anti moonlighting clauses. They just don't have much
| pressure associated to them as long as you are moderately
| competent and can reasonably deal with crushing beuracracy.
|
| The way to find these is to really just look for a job
| which emphasizes enterprise, a tech you know, and the main
| focus being upgrade from version X to version Y. Bonus
| points if this is in a large firm with minimal competition
| in its sector.
|
| These companies largely need someone to be there in case
| they might need some job done, but generally they need
| people to pretend to be busy. With remote work, they
| probably don't need you to try particularly hard at that.
| affgrff wrote:
| It seems to be a little out of fashion with the HN crowd, but
| maybe meditation can help you a little on your way. It is taught
| that pain is inevitable but suffering is optional. Trained
| Buddhist monks can endure immolation, see for example
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4...
|
| Good luck, hope you find something helpful here.
| bradhilton wrote:
| That sounds like a really difficult situation. What sort of jobs
| would you be interested in? What do you think are your relative
| strengths & skills?
| iply wrote:
| I can't say I have been in a similar situation or that I am
| qualified to be giving specific advice. I'm glad you're seeking
| help from a trained professional. I will say this though:
|
| Even though it may be hard to do so right now, try to focus on
| the things that are in your control at the moment. What was your
| skillset before your disability. Which of these skills do you
| still hold now?
|
| Are there any disability inclusion legislations in your country
| you could take advantage of when looking for a job?
|
| I'd even do some research. What is your long term goal? You said
| you were a founder in the past. Do you still want to do something
| similar to this? Try to see if there are founders that had
| similar situations to yours. You can even look into their lives
| and the road that they took before they got to where they
| currently are.
|
| As for the short term things like being late on payments and
| bills, try to ask a friend or family member for help with your
| finances. They might be able to look at things more objectively
| and help you make cuts in certain areas until you get back up to
| where you may want to be.
|
| This is all of course going to take a lot of work, and it's
| definitely going to have its challenges. This fight is not going
| to be easy but I assure you that it will be worthwhile. I wish
| you the very best.
| fma wrote:
| Sorry to hear about your situation, I have not been in your
| shoes. If you are able to work a few hours remotely have you
| considered teaching? Maybe something like https://outschool.com
| or local kids (post on Facebook, Nextdoor) and help kids get
| ready for AP computer science or something. I use codehs.com for
| their curriculum and learning platform, and volunteer with a few
| kids of friends.
|
| It will take some time to startup snd get reputation on outschool
| but if you find enrichment with teach kids this could be
| something to consider.
|
| I don't think it would be enough money to make a career but I'd
| you need to offset some bills it could be a quick way.
| killingtime74 wrote:
| What are you interested in work wise, do you already have the
| required skills or can upskill? Perhaps gigs related to your
| skills? If you need to build up portfolio you could volunteer? I
| think everything is easier when you have a team, would you be
| able to join any groups online or otherwise with similar
| interests or disabilities? Best of luck and let us know how it
| goes, you're not alone!
|
| Did you enjoy YC? Could you do it again?
| [deleted]
| bestouff wrote:
| At least you're not American. Oh wait ...
| blooalien wrote:
| Been there, still there... Also no idea what to do. I've been
| just doing my best to learn a buncha open source related skills
| (Blender modeling, Python scripting, Linux administration, etc)
| to try my best to keep some relevant skills alive, but the pain
| has directly affected my sleep, which has directly affected my
| skills to a severe degree, so it's slow going. Still trying
| though, because I'm just not able to completely give up for some
| stupid reason, no matter how hopeless things appear.
| rdl wrote:
| It seems like you've done a lot of the most reasonable easy stuff
| already (lowering expenses, etc.)
|
| I would assume an IC job with a single employer is easier to
| manage than founder or side projects or multiple consulting
| clients. Probably something where physical presence is required
| might actually be better (given that the rest of your life sounds
| unfulfilling). Not sure how limiting the chronic pain is for
| this, but finding something where you are provided
| housing/office/etc. at some location to do whatever work might be
| a good thing for a while (i.e. the tech equivalent of a remote
| oilfield job). These exist, but not sure how best to search for
| them. Might be a chance to transition from backend web dev to
| embedded, too.
|
| (I was depressed/broke after a big startup failed and the dotcom
| collapse and crazy ex-gf in the bay area back in 2002; I went to
| Iraq/Afghanistan/etc for ~a decade to do tech stuff to get away
| from it.)
|
| Good luck! (Also there's presumably some YC resource? idk,
| haven't really kept up on YC internal stuff for a while.)
| sixhobbits wrote:
| Have you considered technical writing? I don't have experience
| with chronic pain but if you can still comfortably play video
| games maybe you can also write articles?
|
| I used to do this as a side gig and collected some resources and
| places that pay here [0]
|
| I have since started a technical publishing company [1] so it's a
| full time focus and most of our writers work 20h/week or less.
| Feel free to apply if it sounds interesting.
|
| [0] https://github.com/sixhobbits/technical-writing
|
| [1] https://ritza.co
| pragmatic wrote:
| Have you considered a second or third tier company.
|
| Some small SaaS that is looking for full stack etc.
|
| Consulting and startups are wayyy more stressful than changing a
| tooltip verbiage in a 2 week sprint (seriously the bar for full
| stack senior engineer so low you could trip on it at many
| places).
|
| You could be burned out and physical pain can certainly be a
| manifestation of mental issues.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| Will probably get downvoted here, but read a self-help book.
|
| Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins is one of the better ones
| based on the various areas of your life. (Raising Standards,
| Limiting Beliefs, Change your Strategy)
|
| If you don't read this book, there's plenty of others regarding
| how our mental state can do more damage than good. Some are even
| associated with chronic physical pain such as back pain or
| migraines.
|
| For as little as $10 or a trip to the local library (or online
| version), you can potentially change your life by reading a book
| with something foreign to you that you try and it suddenly works.
| drdec wrote:
| Perhaps look for freelance gigs that are paid by the task, not
| the hour. Then it won't matter that you might need to take a
| little longer because you are dealing with the chronic pain.
|
| Good luck
| kwatsonafter wrote:
| Hey there! I was in a similar boat. This might not be a popular
| solution but what got me, "out of the poverty trap" was going
| back to school. I have high ACT scores so I can get all my
| housing, meals, transport, paid for by grants and scholarships
| and what's left over I can always manage with student loans. I
| keep a part-time (Wednesday and Thursday) job so I have modest
| disposable income. I'm still in the thick of it; I won't receive
| full financial aid until the fall so family's helping out.
|
| Don't lose hope! There are workable solutions to social problems.
| [deleted]
| Camrecorder wrote:
| nxmnxm99 wrote:
| You don't spend money on rent, but are still spending
| $1500/month? On what?
| Hydraulix989 wrote:
| I'm guessing food, car payment, gas, insurance, it adds up.
| Also, your comment comes across as really inappropriate.
| unsupp0rted wrote:
| It's an appropriate question in a forum full of curious
| people, with no demonstrated animosity.
|
| In the US it's really easy to spend $1500 a month even on
| medicine alone, not to mention food, electricity, etc.
|
| In other countries, $1500 is minimum wage, and in others it's
| maximum wage for most people.
|
| Making $1500 a month in Belarus, for example, puts you in the
| top 1% of everybody.
| nxmnxm99 wrote:
| How is my question inappropriate?
|
| In any case, selling his/her car seems like an easy way to
| cut costs.
|
| However it sounds like medical costs are the culprit, which
| was the intention of my question.
| hwbehrens wrote:
| I think the parent's question may be insensitive, but not
| inappropriate. The core problem OP seems to be facing is a
| mismatch between their incoming and outgoing cash flows. If
| we take it as given that they cannot work, e.g. that their
| incoming flows are fixed, then I think it's a natural step to
| examine ways to decrease their outgoing flows.
|
| Of course, that oversimplifies the problem somewhat, since
| any changes could worsen the situation overall, e.g.
| decreased mental health. Sitting in a bare room paid for by
| someone else and watching the wallpaper peel away has very
| little out of pocket cost, after all.
|
| The counterargument is that homelessness and loss of
| medication would probably be far worse -- for example, it
| could be wiser to sell the car and live an ascetic lifestyle
| for 16-24 months until the disability appeals are processed,
| at which point the OP could return to an equilibrium.
| Stretching out the runway, so to speak.
|
| Forming any actionable advice in this vein is impossible
| without a better understanding of the OP's costs, however.
| fabianhjr wrote:
| Probably mostly meds if in the US; US citizens don't have
| access to cheap generic medications nor universal healthcare so
| something like chronic pain can cost a lot out of pocket.
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| My co-pays for meds and visits are about 1/3 of my budget.
| dflock wrote:
| Have you tried this: https://costplusdrugs.com/
| geocrasher wrote:
| My friend, I am very sorry. Focus on what you can do _right now_.
| The first thing you can do is work hard to find joy in every day
| of life. Yes, it exists, and yes, you have to look for it. This
| will help you turn around your depression.
|
| My wife found joy every day even though she was terminally ill,
| and I'd be remiss not to point you to the same place where she
| learned to find it:
|
| https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/living-with-...
|
| If you want, you can email me to my username@gmail.com and I will
| send you her Instagram feed which is still online and you will
| see what she went through and how she stayed positive, peaceful,
| and even happy despite her awful ordeal.
|
| Lastly, you are more than the sum of your accomplishments. Your
| material needs are few, and your qualifications many. Get a job
| doing _anything_ you can do from home, and just start grinding.
| Don 't worry about trying to get back to where you were. Accept
| your new normal and work it like any other problem.
| solardev wrote:
| Hey, FYI, I initially flagged your post because I thought it
| was spam... thought JW had moved into the online version of
| door-to-door Watchtowering with drive-by evangelism.
|
| But I was wrong, and I'm sorry. You're just a regular part of
| this community and your wife happens to have religious beliefs
| that helped her through tough times.
|
| I apologize for jumping to conclusions, and I'm posting this
| response mostly so others don't make the same mistake and
| assume your post is spam.
| geocrasher wrote:
| I appreciate that. I too hold those beliefs and they help me,
| but I'm not here to proselytize. I share what has helped, and
| if it helps somebody else that's great. We all hold beliefs
| of some kind, be they a differing religion or a philosophy
| that's helped us, and I see people share those all the time
| and that's all I'm doing as well. I appreciate your seeing it
| that way.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Jehova's Witnesses aren't a legitimate religion. They're a
| cult, and the parent comment to you is engaged in predatory
| behavior exactly of the sort any cult is known for.
| bragr wrote:
| JW is more likely to cause you to commit suicide than find
| happiness. I'm not sure we should be giving the benefit of
| the doubt to cults where the danger is well established.
|
| https://www.dehek.com/general/health-wellness/escaping-
| suici...
|
| https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/03/18/j.
| ..
| MauroIksem wrote:
| Contact your city sometimes they have programs for people in your
| situation.. recently at my work we were contacted through one of
| these programs about a an older dev in a similar situation as
| yourself. We interviewed them for an internship and if we take
| them on the city will pay their wage for the length of the
| internship.
| 3qz wrote:
| Now you go on welfare and find a $400/month apartment in rural
| Nebraska
| 0xFFFE wrote:
| If you don't have anything good to contribute at least don't be
| a dick to others. Life can turn on a dime and any of us could
| be in a similar situation.
| solardev wrote:
| This is unnecessarily mean.
| wcerfgba wrote:
| Since there are already lots of good ideas in this thread, here's
| an off-the-wall suggestion for income: cam modelling. A lot of
| people in similar situations (struggling to hold down a steady
| job due to needs for flexibility around disability, health,
| family, etc.) get into it because it can be a quick source of
| income. "Camming: Money, Power, and Pleasure in the Sex Work
| Industry" by Angela Jones is a great study of the industry and
| people's journeys if you want to read more about this.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| Is this a permanent disability or something that can be recovered
| with a lifestyle change?
| stjohn_piano wrote:
| Sorry to read this.
|
| You don't mention the cause of your chronic pain, but I'm
| guessing it's probably related to startup stress & long hours of
| tense work in front of a computer screen i.e. RSI. I'll add my
| experience here in case it's useful.
|
| I went through several years of severe, disabling RSI / chronic
| pain in my 20s, about 6 years ago.
|
| Have written two blog articles about it.
|
| http://edgecase.net/articles/an_overview_of_repetitive_strai...
|
| http://edgecase.net/articles/further_recovery_from_rsi
|
| Recovered from 1-2% working capability to 90% (with some ongoing
| costs e.g. visits to osteopath).
|
| There's certainly a mental component (you can get stuck in an
| emotional loop), so I haven't ruled out Sarno, mental
| recalibration etc. But I will say that dealing with the pain via
| direct loosening treatments of knotted muscle is almost
| definitely the right first step.
|
| Hope you find these articles useful, and good luck.
| m_a_g wrote:
| I mean it must be obvious but the source of your problems seems
| to be your chronic pain. What is the source of it?
|
| Do you need to go undergo an operation and don't have the
| resources for it? If not, do medications help? At least to help
| you get work done?
| cs137 wrote:
| I'm 39 and disabled in addition to being politically exposed
| (that is, a bunch of people whom I've never met know me by my
| real name and, for reasons so silly it is not worth getting into,
| utterly hate me) so I have some insight into your situation.
|
| To start: this utterly sucks. If it makes you feel better, it's
| not as uncommon as people want to believe. It awaits probably
| half of the people here in middle age (meaning 40s and 50s) due
| to a mix of random bad luck and work stress. Unfortunately,
| there's no easy fix. Getting sick invariably damages your life,
| in our society, more than it should. Money problems are an
| absolute nightmare that cannot be understood except by people who
| have experienced them.
|
| It is truly astonishing, in the United States, how quickly your
| life can turn to shit, and how readily our society will let it
| happen. If the 99 percent of people who will not inherit high
| positions in the corporate system realized this--if they realized
| that they are not protected by their educational paperwork or
| "professional network" (which will disappear as soon as they need
| it)--then our entire society would be overthrown (good riddance)
| in a few nights.
|
| It's good that you have family you can live on, and you shouldn't
| be ashamed of the fact that you're in this situation, because
| it's not your fault (shame or guilt will just make it worse). Not
| everyone has that. I'm not saying that to make you feel bad about
| people who are worse off; I'm just stating a fact. People have
| come back from worse.. although the path is difficult and the
| odds are poor.
|
| What happened with your consulting clients? Did you inform them
| of your situation, and were they understanding? Would you be able
| to use them as references? (If they say anything bad about you,
| you can argue that they're engaging in discriminatory
| communication and sue their dicks off... but, ideally, things
| would be in a state where they'd say good things.) Why wouldn't
| they have been accepting of your scaling down your hours?
|
| The first thing you have to do is focus on your health, like
| nothing else matters. Easier said than done, I know. If you can
| improve your situation to the point where you can work 25, then
| 30, then 35 hours per week... then great. It might take a few
| years, though; health problems do not resolve quickly, especially
| later in life, and doubly-especially when bullshit survival
| pressures do not let up.
|
| I think you and the corporate world are, to be frank about it,
| probably done. For all the claptrap about corporate "mission",
| the truth (that everyone knows but cannot speak) is that the work
| has no real purpose and it's all about the money (and ego and
| narcissism, but those are connected to the money and the ability
| to get it). When you become disabled, you're no longer in the
| running for the executive-level jobs that are the carrots dangled
| in front of the masses, and everyone knows it. So, the cunts up
| top will take your inability to work 70+ hours per week as an
| "attitude" problem rather than a justifiable concession to a hard
| medical need. You can draw out the process, document everything,
| and probably collect a better-than-typical severance when they
| eventually fire you... but I'm guessing this isn't the way you
| want to live. With or without severance (which is never enough,
| even if you played the disability endgame like a pro) getting
| fired every year still fucking sucks.
|
| You could look at government jobs. There are a lot of jobs in the
| public sector that are "boring"--meaning there's a fair amount of
| bureaucracy, and you're not going to be flown to Hawaii after a
| product launch--but that will allow you to work from home, and
| scale back to part-time if/when you need to do so. (I'm guessing
| that your disability fluctuates, and there are times when you can
| work 40+ hours and times when not.) You're not going to make a
| ton of money, but (let's be honest) that's never going to happen
| for you (unless your disability spontaneously resolves, which I
| hope it does, but which can't be bet upon) in the corporate world
| either. Plus, while some government jobs are bureaucratic waste,
| there are a good number of them that actually serve useful social
| purposes, and give you something to think about other than your
| health.
|
| The best strategy, if you can get it to work, is probably to find
| a "boring" (boring is good, because income is a utility and
| having it turned off _fucking sucks_ ) job with flexible hours
| where you can work from home. You'll need one with good medical
| benefits, too. The era in which you can bet your life on a dodgy
| startup (it didn't pan out the last time) is over.
|
| Good luck! You are certainly not alone in this. Infirmity happens
| to all of us; the only variation is in when it comes.
| momothereal wrote:
| I was going to mention government jobs as well. I'm not sure
| how good the US/state governments are with this, but in Canada
| the feds are extremely accommodating for any mental and
| physical illnesses.
| anonu wrote:
| > in the United States, how quickly your life can turn to shit,
|
| This is true, unfortunately. There is minimal social safety net
| in the USA for people like OP. This is partly due to the very
| independent, self-determination mindset that has pervaded in
| the US since its founding. US values hard work and
| perseverance. The moment you cannot work, you are treated
| poorly and are a second class citizen.
|
| Showing you are willing to work, even if it's slow, is worth a
| lot. So I certainly echo the sentiments in other comments,
| start small and stay consistent.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| I went through a very similar thing with ME/CFS and hEDS (which
| has a chronic pain component). Before I even knew what was I knew
| that I was on the decline. I was doing ok at work but my ability
| to maintain a working pace kept diminishing. I went from full
| time to part time to less than part time to the occasional
| contracting. I ended up having to do a bit of a Hail Mary to try
| to save myself. I took a bunch of stimulants for three months and
| made some software that I was able to sell for enough money to
| keep afloat. It was niche software that was obviously going to
| make money but it was a lot of unpleasant work. I likened it
| toilet scrubbing work. I knew if it didn't work I'd run out of
| money and without family support my backup plan was to take a
| long walk off a short pier. Since then I've been able to find out
| the underlying problem, no thanks to doctors who were all less
| than helpful, and now treat it fairly successfully with a variety
| of meds.
|
| I guess my advice would be, do whatever is needed to make money,
| no matter how unpleasant, so that you can survive long enough to
| figure out what is wrong and get treatment. And don't rely on
| doctors for treatment.
| hotpotamus wrote:
| > I guess my advice would be, do whatever is needed to make
| money, no matter how unpleasant, so that you can survive long
| enough to figure out what is wrong and get treatment.
|
| The greatest TV show ever made (IMHO of course) was actually
| based on this premise, only the main character was a chemist,
| not a developer.
| [deleted]
| Arete314159 wrote:
| Your story is very familiar to me....I worked for years in a
| failing body, trying to make enough money to survive.
|
| It sounds like you've found treatments that help you, but if
| not the Center for Complex Diseases is great with both ME/CFS
| and hEDS. If you have spine issues due to hEDS there are some
| PT's in the Bay Area that specialize in craniocervical
| instability and related issues. Just FYI.
| albertTJames wrote:
| Say you are going to the gym 4 times a week, then one day, while
| running, you feel a sudden pain in your knee. Knee swells but
| nothing too bad, except that every single time you move your
| knee, some sharp, nagging pain comes back and gets you to stop
| whatever you're doing. You then touch your knee, move it left and
| right, and scratch at the pain. Makes it a bit worse.
|
| You should rest, says your aunt and her bridge friends. You don't
| really want to rest, but at the same time... that pain! Right?
| Can't really go to the gym now.. could I?
|
| So, you stay home for the next two weeks. After two weeks, the
| pain is still there; you leave it for another two weeks before
| going to the doctor. Doc can't find anything wrong, so you get
| Ibuprofen for 2 weeks and rest, perhaps a little contention for
| your knee. After the two weeks are done, you feel a bit better,
| and you gained a bit of weight, so it's really time to go back to
| the gym.
|
| You go back to the gym, pumped. First move, bam! Knee pain comes
| back. As sharp as ever. WTF.
|
| Thing is. Not moving for a month or two and avoiding the pain has
| made all the muscles around your knee grow weak. Your threshold
| for pain is lowered by the inactivity in the limb, and your
| general fitness has severely diminished.
|
| Is having knee pain as bad as your story? Of course not. Is that
| a helpful story? Well, maybe, you tell me.
|
| I believe in both cases letting the pain control your life is a
| mistake. Even if it is the worst pain imaginable, do whatever you
| can to work AROUND it. What does it mean in your case?
|
| Your pain does not forbid you to take care of your lifestyle: -
| Do not indulge in useless behaviours that kill your soul and
| increase your self-deprecation: (re)Build a discipline. - Eat
| well, sleep well and rise with the sun. - Do every bit of
| physical activity you can, regularly, like clockwork.
|
| Can you do 20 pushups? 10? 1? Well, then it goes in. Can you run
| for 5 min ? You start there. Can you stretch your back ? Bam, in.
| You find out what you can do and make it a doable _and
| improvable_ routine that you do EVERY SINGLE DAY, in the morning,
| preferably.
|
| Work around the pain. Do not let it control you, build what can
| be built.
|
| Your pain does not forbid you to take care of your mindset: -
| Find goals, start small, and keep growing - E.g. "I can't hold a
| job" --> that's a useless generalisation. Change it to rational
| thinking: are you cognitively diminished ? yes/no ? if yes, how
| much? Are there job for cognitively diminished people like you ?
| (probably, given that half the population has an IQ below 100).
| Are you physically dimished ? yes/no ? How much? Can you find a
| job that would work? Remote? Coding ? Job X ? You don't know how
| to do X ? Replace video games by Coursera. Get a certificate in
| X. Is it you can't keep a job because you aim too high ? Would it
| be ok to aim lower ? How low ? How much time would it be ok to be
| there ? - Keep a vision of what the future could be. Even with
| the pain, even with all the failures and broken dreams. Find out
| what it could be as if your life depended on it.
|
| Anyways. There is no silver bullet. You are, or have been, at a
| threshold for a while, a fork in the road between extinction and
| rebirth.
|
| My advice is to take the Ibuprofen or whatever antidepressant you
| can get, whatever can help you stand a bit taller and feel a bit
| less of the pain. But go back to the gym, work around whatever
| pain is left after that, and wean yourself off everything you
| thought you needed to go through the days. Progressively.
|
| Also, obviously. Stop taking benzodiazepine, weed, alcohol or any
| other drugs. Get help if you can. You are in a fight for the rest
| of your life.
|
| Good luck.
| albertTJames wrote:
| Anyone downvoting this post is a douche, because this, fellas,
| is pure gold.
|
| You're welcome.
| rocketbop wrote:
| I suffered with chronic pain related issues for some years. I
| might have some insights, feel free to shoot me an email if you
| feel up to it. Mail is in my profile.
| oneepic wrote:
| Not to pry into OP's personal details, but I'd try some
| "moonshot" lifestyle changes if you haven't done so already, to
| see if anything helps fix your health issues. Keto diet is one
| everyone raves about, but it absolutely does have risks. (ex: one
| HN'er wrote about a relative going on keto and later having a
| triple bypass and chronic back inflammation, possibly due to way
| too many omega-6 fats)
| lambdaba wrote:
| Keto can be a bad diet even after removing sugar and most carbs
| if one eats keto junkfood. Any person that had success with
| keto also understood and some point that food quality, and
| particularly fat quality, is a must. Instead of omega-6 from
| seed oils one should supplement with omega-3s via high quality
| fish oil. The bulk of the fat should be saturated and some
| monounsaturated fat.
|
| Keto with good fats and eliminating keto snacks (and the
| snacking behavior altogether), can work absolute miracles.
| There's no question eliminating sugar and even most carbs will
| greatly diminish inflammation and improve energetic output via
| ketones and bypass the overworked carb pathways.
|
| Anyway, such a moonshot diet exists, and it's zerocarb keto,
| some call ketovore, meaning mostly meat very high fat diet.
| Reddit has a r/zerocarb sub for the generic (not deliberately
| high fat) version.
|
| I'm going to contact OP by email because I have a lot of
| experience with this, along with other advice for
| supplementation, etc.
| mohas wrote:
| where do you experience the pain? does it get worst or better on
| certain occasions?
| ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
| I'm working on a bootstrapped SaaS, I didn't plan on hiring
| developers because I just don't have the budget for it but I've
| been where you're at. I'm disabled and severely ill, with not
| much to look forward to in the future, thankfully I'm still
| employed and have enough to survive.
|
| If you can program elixir and you can settle for a below-market
| rate I can give you a few billable hours and whatever schedule
| you can accommodate with your difficulties. It's not a long term
| solution but hopefully it could help patch the leak in your
| finances.
| [deleted]
| londons_explore wrote:
| Consider moving to a cheaper country.
|
| By selling everything you own in the USA, you might end up with
| many many years of living expenses in say Thailand.
|
| In todays world of remote work, even getting a tiny number of
| consulting jobs, at US rates because you have (presumably) a US
| education/work history, will then pay the bills.
|
| Many countries have small populations of American/British people
| you could join. Check visa eligibility first - some countries are
| far easier to get into than others.
|
| Obviously this probably depends on the whole family wanting to
| move - and thats a big decision for you to all make together.
| aborsy wrote:
| This is not a good thing to do.
|
| Disabled and unemployed, not speaking the language, he will be
| trapped in a bad situation there with no one to help. It will
| be increasingly hard for him to come back to USA.
|
| Also, CoL in major metro cities in a lot of these countries can
| be as high as that in USA. See cost of living in Europe or
| world major cities. I don't think you can easily transfer money
| either.
| bragr wrote:
| I'm sorry but if he's selling personal possessions to fund a
| car payment he's already behind on, he doesn't have the money
| to move to another country, even a cheap one.
| londons_explore wrote:
| But if you move country, you will no longer need that
| expensive USA house and car, so you can sell them and get a
| far cheaper house and car in the country you move to.
| jfk13 wrote:
| I don't think you're being at all realistic. Have you tried
| an international, inter-cultural move, while disabled and
| broke? The post mentioned "I live with family", so I don't
| think selling "that expensive USA house" is an option,
| neither is there likely much equity in the car (already
| behind on a payment).
| bragr wrote:
| If he had a lot of equity, he would not be behind on
| payments, he probably would have refinanced, and you are
| neglecting the upfront costs of an international move. You
| might eventually save money, but that's not super helpful
| to this person's situation.
| LouisSayers wrote:
| "An international move" doesn't need to be as expensive
| as you make it sound.
|
| Once you sort out a visa, you can literally buy a plane
| ticket, pack a backpack, and get on a plane.
|
| Bali has recently introduced a nomad visa:
|
| https://www.euronews.com/travel/amp/2022/06/24/balis-new-
| dig...
|
| If OP were able to find part time work online, moving to
| a tropical climate in a new environment could potentially
| help their condition.
|
| The biggest challenge would be medication, but even with
| that they could probably figure it out.
|
| Living in a different environment can definitely help
| with your health. IMO, if they've been stuck where they
| are for years, it's not a silly idea at all to make a
| complete change of environment and see how they do.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| be carefull with this, if something goes wrong in a country
| with weak rule of law, and customs you dont understand... A
| vulnerable person might not be in the best position to travel
| sejo wrote:
| Do 1 task a day, no matter how small it is, do it consistently
| for a week or two. Then every other day you do 2 tasks for a
| month, and you start working up to a point where you feel you do
| what you can within your limits and get joy from that 1 (or 2)
| items you can scrap off.
|
| If you live with family focus your tasks maybe on easing their
| life, pull out 10 weeds out of the garden, take out the trash,
| fix a squeaking door. Small but attainable things.
|
| Chronical pain is a mess, it's relentless and it's always there,
| it doesn't go away, but you learn to deal with it. Focus on the
| pain initially, learn what pain you have and focus on it. I
| learned to focus on it and make a mental note (do not know how
| else to say) that it's not worth paying attention to, and I get
| by without medication. It's not always easy and there are days
| where you want to cry and cry and just fall asleep so you do not
| have to feel it. It's normal and accept that not all days will be
| the same and successful.
|
| It's a tough hill you are up against, but all shall pass and all
| will be well in the end. It's unbelievable sometimes, but all
| shall pass. Remember that.
|
| Good luck, don't falter, reaching out is the first step!
| jzellis wrote:
| I am exactly in the same boat, except I live in the UK with my
| British spouse (I'm American). I've been slowly rebuilding myself
| after heart surgery, trying to build up my physical stamina,
| getting therapy for depression, and learning the new JS hotness
| to be able to get better work to support my wife and I. Except
| the Home Office here fucked up my visa and it looks like I might
| get sent back to the US, where I have no home, no access to the
| medical care I need, and my wife (who is also disabled with
| chronic pain) needs me.
|
| I got no advice, man, but you're not alone here. Being a 44 year
| old web dev with chronic pain issues sucks. I'm pulling for you.
| thrown321 wrote:
| Not sure how it works in the UK but maybe contact an attorney
| or your local MP.
| KingOfCoders wrote:
| Sorry to hear that, after my startup failed I also had a very
| hard time, didn't want to take benefits (I thought that was below
| me, idiot me) and was eating the very cheapest Aldi stuff and got
| renting problems (no rent payed) and all credit cards and bank
| accounts cancelled. Got some money from my mom (they are the
| best). Luckily a friend gave me a job.
| Neil44 wrote:
| Is there something you could do on fiverr or upwork? As these
| abstract you from the customer a little more, and good comms and
| service will get you a long way.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| I'm not sure what the cause of your chronic pain is, but I would
| highly recommend reading John Sarno's "The Mindbody
| Prescription." I've dealt with chronic pain for years and it's
| the only thing that's had any effect. Please, _please_ , don't
| write it off until you've read the book. Note that Sarno's work
| focuses on back pain, but it applies to all types of chronic pain
| (including migraines, which he discusses in the book).
|
| - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jQtmSZetJM
|
| - https://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain
|
| - https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/well/mind/john-sarno-chro...
|
| - https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/well/chronic-pain.h...
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Everybody should read Sarno's book. It's a short read and even
| if it doesn't help your back pain it will probably alleviate
| something else. My partner and I both had pain that disappeared
| from reading Sarno. Back and wrist pain are gone.
| rand846633 wrote:
| This might sound snarky I apologize. How do you know that you
| pain disappeared from reading a book, when it could have been
| random coincidence?
|
| Or to phrase it the other way: I have had some or the other
| sort of pain in my life, and these pains did, rather randomly
| leave. Would I have read a book or done some random ritual at
| this point in time, I might now misattribute the relief to
| the random ritual.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| > How do you know that you pain disappeared from reading a
| book
|
| I can't know for sure. Though there is this:
|
| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-
| matters/retrain...
|
| > "For a long time, we have thought that chronic pain is
| due primarily to problems in the body, and most treatments
| to date have targeted that," Ashar says. "This treatment is
| based on the premise that the brain can generate pain in
| the absence of injury or after an injury has healed, and
| that people can unlearn that pain. Our study shows it
| works."
|
| My back was feeling worse and worse until I read the book
| though. My partner reported the same thing. It could be a
| coincidence but the book was short, contained a few good
| lessons, and costs me nothing to recall the information in
| the future.
| empressplay wrote:
| This is not without merit and to some degree I suffer from TMS
| but I also have EDS (hypermobility syndrome) which is a very
| real physical condition, and the two work in tandem to make
| life somewhat uncomfortable, to say the least.
|
| So while I agree the mind does play a part in chronic pain, it
| is not necessarily the only part.
| cpncrunch wrote:
| Good advice. Also check out Rachel Zoffness, who is the #1
| scientific source for information about chronic pain:
|
| https://www.zoffness.com/resources
|
| Curable is also a useful resource:
|
| https://www.curablehealth.com/
| anm89 wrote:
| Personally I think Sarno is BS. He's telling people what they
| want to hear and covering up for the failures of of our medical
| system.
|
| He basically says that your pain is coming from stress from
| psychological issues and what you need to do is therapy and
| Journaling.
|
| I believed this nonsense in regards to my own back pain for a
| long time. Ironically my pain of 5 years started to subside as
| I gave up these beliefs although I don't think that was causal.
|
| I had a physical injury to my neck muscles. It turned out what
| I needed was years of rest and pt to that muscle system. No
| amount of Journaling is going to fix real injuries
| calmoo wrote:
| My experience is the exact opposite of yours. I was told for
| 12 years my back pain was caused by bulging discs, having a
| spine that has a reduced natural curve and also caused by
| poor posture. I read Sarno's book and I have been pain free
| since November last year. I have never gone longer than 2
| weeks without severe sciatic or SI joint pain.
|
| Please don't dismiss Sarno's work as BS. It may have not been
| the right fit for you, but it is for countless other people.
| Sarno's work is aimed at exactly people who don't have a real
| biomechanical issue like yourself. It's not a one size fits
| all, nor is Physiotherapy or surgery.
|
| Also in general, Sarno doesn't reccomend journaling to
| everyone. A simple mindset change works for most people.
| Worked for me.
| dang wrote:
| Aaron's article was discussed here at the time:
|
| _How I Cured my RSI Pain_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 - April 2010 (75
| comments)
|
| Lots of Sarno over the years:
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
| affgrff wrote:
| I read about here last year, and gave it a shot based on the
| many recommendations. It definitely helped me.
| flatline wrote:
| Helped me too. I still deal with pain but it totally
| changed my mindset about it and relieved a lot of the
| suffering associated with the pain. I saw an associate of
| Sarno's who co-authored one of his books, she looked at my
| imaging and was like, I've seen way worse than this, you'll
| be fine long term, which was a huge concern of mine. That
| was a decade past now.
| calmoo wrote:
| I've suffered from severe chronic back pain for the past 12
| years or so, starting at the age of 16. It manifested as
| sciatica initially, and gradually became more severe. I had
| flare ups that would last months. It eventually started
| manifesting as SI joint pain, constantly switching sides.
|
| Over the years I had been to 4 different physiotherapists,
| tried everything from regular core exercises formulated by
| Stuart McGill, to Infrared heat bands, climbing alot. It would
| always come back.
|
| I picked up Sarno's book about 6 months ago and I approached it
| with a highly skeptical eye. My back pain is nearly completely
| gone. I have had very minor flare ups that last a day or two,
| but I just repeat a few mantras and it disappears the next day
| (whereas before the same kind of flare up would last for
| months).
|
| I even had MRIs done at the start of the pain, I had multiple
| bulging disks and even a spine that appeared too straight. For
| anyone reading, don't let this discourage you. 50% of people
| who have had bulging disks appear in an MRI don't experience
| any pain at all!
|
| Sarno's book has some pretty flaky theories behind how the pain
| manifests and the physiology of it all, but the overaching
| theme is that repressed anger / anxiety can manifest as severe
| back pain. Once you recognise this you can lose the pain. I
| never thought I would fix my back pain, but now I have.
|
| Read the book if you're suffering!
| agumonkey wrote:
| psychosomatic effects are strange, i'm gonna peak at this
| book
|
| also there are non individualistic leverage to curing the
| mind/body aspect
|
| I tried a lot of meditation, hygiene and sport, but nothing
| had as much impact as having a daily life
| (commute,job,colleagues). It seems we're also very dependent
| on our context.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| Q: My life is falling apart on all fronts and I'm struggling
| with physical and mental health issues; what should I do?
|
| A: Read this book.
|
| Only on HN...
| ratg13 wrote:
| Bashing people trying to help is usually a reddit thing, but
| here we are.
|
| This website is a text based medium. Literally the only thing
| that can conveyed here is information.
|
| Books, as you are aware, can contain even more information
| and advice than this website.
|
| If the person was looking for something other than
| information and advice, they would be looking elsewhere.
| jraph wrote:
| I have an intuition that there's a reasoning problem in
| this comment but I can't point out what exactly this time.
|
| Verbal clues and facial expressions are also pieces of
| information, so the fact that HN is a text-based medium
| does not set it apart from other communication mediums only
| because it conveys information.
|
| People going to HN to ask for help probably do this because
| they are familiar with this community, not necessarily
| because it is text-based and probably haven't rationalized
| this aspect that much.
|
| Anyway, good luck to OP. I don't have any insight on this
| matter.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| I admit it sounds crazy, but it works. I was extremely
| skeptical too.
| m00x wrote:
| It really doesn't work for everyone.
|
| OP needs to see a doctor first instead of trying to use a
| placebo.
| agumonkey wrote:
| HN bashing can only go so far, every where people have the
| same prototypes of answers, HN, reddit, boards, public
| transportation :)
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I didn't read it as bashing, but as a joke
| honkdaddy wrote:
| For those curious enough for a brief explanation -
|
| >Sarno explains how your unconscious mind can provoke physical
| pain by manipulating your autonomic nervous system to deprive
| muscle tissue of oxygen. The book posits that the unconscious
| does this because of unresolved, unconscious stress that exists
| deep in your mind. By inducing physical pain, the unconscious
| creates a distraction that prevents this stress from becoming
| conscious. You can eliminate the pain by addressing the
| unconscious stress and becoming consciously aware that the pain
| is merely a distraction, thus rendering the unconscious's
| technique unnecessary and ineffective. The book provides
| specific methods for accomplishing this. I applied these
| methods and my pain disappeared.
|
| Seems like it could be very effective, and something I'll keep
| in mind if I ever end up suffering from chronic pain.
| debo_ wrote:
| "The Way Out" by Alan Gordon is a modern treatment of the idea
| that has been super effective for me.
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50021854-the-way-out
| [deleted]
| debo_ wrote:
| > Chronic pain is an epidemic. 50 million Americans struggle
| with back pain, headaches, or some other pain that resists
| all treatment. Desperate pain sufferers are told again and
| again that there is no cure for chronic pain.
|
| > Psychotherapist Alan Gordon was in grad school when he
| started experiencing chronic pain and it completely derailed
| his life. He saw multiple doctors and received many
| diagnoses, but none of the medical treatments helped.
| Frustrated with conventional pain management, he developed
| Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), a mind-body protocol to
| eliminate chronic pain. He subsequently founded the Pain
| Psychology Center in Los Angeles to bring his treatment to
| other pain sufferers.
|
| > PRT is rooted in neuroscience, which has shown that while
| chronic pain feels like it's coming from the body, in most
| cases it's generated by misfiring pain circuits in the brain.
| PRT is a system of psychological techniques that rewires the
| brain to break out of the cycle of chronic pain.
|
| > The University of Colorado at Boulder recently conducted a
| large randomized controlled study on PRT, and the results are
| remarkable. By the end of the study, the majority of patients
| were pain-free or nearly pain-free. What's more, these
| dramatic changes held up over time. The Way Out brings PRT to
| readers. It combines accessible science with a concrete,
| step-by-step plan to teach sufferers how to heal their own
| chronic pain.
| throw6746 wrote:
| Summary linked in the comments:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20101210060431/http://podolsky.e...
|
| > Here is my summary of what I think is most important in Dr.
| Sarno's theory:
|
| > 1. The mind and the body are linked. Classic example: the
| placebo effect -- your mind thinks it's gotten a pill that's
| gonna fix your body, and what do you know, believing that leads
| to your body fixing itself.
|
| > 2. Not only can the mind-body connection lead to your body
| healing itself (as with placebos), it can also lead to the body
| harming itself, or creating pain.
|
| > 3. Now why would your body do this? In my experience, people
| with chronic RSIs are, deep down, not happy.
|
| Not terribly impressed, especially the last one, try to be
| happy when you have pain every minute, especially when you
| _were_ happy beforehand.
|
| From wiki:
|
| > Sarno's most notable achievement is the development,
| diagnosis, and treatment of tension myoneural syndrome (TMS),
| which is currently not accepted by mainstream medicine.[...]
|
| > Patients typically see their doctor when the pain is at its
| worst and pain chart scores statistically improve over time
| even if left untreated; most people recover from an episode of
| back pain within weeks without any medical intervention at all.
|
| > James Rainville, a medical doctor at New England Baptist
| Hospital, said that while TMS treatment works for some
| patients, Sarno mistakenly uses the TMS diagnosis for other
| patients who have real physical problems.
| jaredklewis wrote:
| I have no opinion on the book or author in question, but I'm
| not clear on why you are so dismissive.
|
| The ability for psychological expectations to cause physical
| pain and even physical symptoms (like those of an allergic
| reaction) is relatively well established science.
| qsdf38100 wrote:
| He stated exactly why he was dismissive. You merely
| reassert the author main point, but fail to address the
| counter arguments he gave.
| throw6746 wrote:
| Doctors are very dismissive of chronic pain patients and
| regularly make you doubt you have anything, generally with
| language very similar to Sarno's, in my case I had to fight
| a lot until they found I had a variation of Parkinson's
| disease, it was very distressing and a huge part of my
| unhappiness.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| This is a mischaracterization of Sarno's work. One doesn't
| need to be "happy" to have relief of pain. Sarno's thesis is
| that chronic pain of this sort is caused by _unconscious_
| stress /emotions and the mere _acknowledgement_ of the
| underlying issues is enough to cure chronic pain.
| Furthermore, Sarno stresses that patients must first undergo
| physical examinations by their doctor(s) to ensure that the
| pain isn 't caused by anything structural. Only then should
| one proceed with his treatment. Note that Sarno (who has
| since passed away) was not some quack--he was a bona fide
| medical doctor who treated patients at NYU Medical Center's
| Rusk Institute.
|
| I would ask you to read his books' reviews (of which there
| are thousands on Amazon). Are all of these people who were
| cured from many years of pain lying? Are the other commenters
| in this very thread lying? There is mounting evidence that
| Sarno's theories are, in fact, of merit--e.g.
| https://www.bidmc.org/about-
| bidmc/news/2021/09/researchers-m....
| rlp wrote:
| Sarno's work comes up periodically on HN, and I always have to
| chime in to say that it cured my RSI. Everything is still
| completely, 100% cured at 15+ years. As a developer, I have no
| idea what I would have done without it, my career would have
| been over. Here are my previous comments:
|
| From 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12990976
|
| From 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26120633
| superasn wrote:
| Yes same here. For me Sarno gave me my life back and reading
| my comments it seems it has helped a lot other people here
| too, so I always chime in too. Here is my comment from 4
| years ago and that was the the start of the end of my
| struggle with pain. (1)
|
| Nowadays I've started doing the wim hof method and it's
| unbelievable my body can endure 7degc bath and I don't feel
| that cold or fall sick taking an ice cold baths everyday even
| during winters. The reason I'm mentioning this is because it
| really seems our minds are much more capable of things for
| which common sense goes against.
|
| I think like the way germs were discovered which changed our
| understanding of medicine, within a few decades it will also
| become a norm to assess patient's mental condition before
| checking for physical and hopefully using the mind to cure a
| lot of disease. I feel like a hippie saying these things but
| after sarno and wim hof I've become more open to the power of
| human mind.
|
| (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17982355
| fallingfrog wrote:
| When my grandmother was in her 20's, her hair turned white and
| she started losing weight. Convinced it was psychosomatic, the
| doctors at the time gave her 10 rounds of electroshock therapy.
| Later it was discovered that she had Addison's disease, an
| autoimmune condition. All she needed was some medication.
|
| So, let's say I'm skeptical when it comes to the "mind body
| connection".
| whitepoplar wrote:
| Not everything is psychosomatic. It's good to be skeptical!
| m00x wrote:
| While it might be a possible reason for OP's pain, a lot more
| often, it's actual physiological issues.
|
| I read this book and it did nothing for me. I had actual
| medical issues, and I kept going to different doctors and
| physios until I found one that found the issue and solved it.
|
| OP needs to go see a sports physio and neurologist.
| whitepoplar wrote:
| What were your medical issues?
| heavyset_go wrote:
| When it comes to SDDI, don't do it alone, hire a firm that
| specializes in disability claims. Expect to be denied at first
| and to need to appeal.
| ksaj wrote:
| This is pretty much exactly the case in Canada, too. You'll
| nearly always get denied on the first attempt. Then have a
| psychiatrist or someone at that level submit a report when you
| try the second time. Then you're far more likely to get it.
|
| I have a feeling they get so many not-actually-disabled
| requests that they create a break from the first request to the
| second to force the person to determine if they are really
| disabled. In some cases, it's probably very true, but it
| punishes those who actually are disabled and needing the
| pressure relief of a regular income.
| anonymousiam wrote:
| I get contacted about once per month by SSDC services. They
| specialize in getting you Social Security Disability benefits.
| I have no idea what they charge, but they must be very good at
| it because one of my prior employers (Fortune 50) is paying
| them to try to get me onto SS to avoid paying my medical
| benefits (part of my retirement package). I'm never going to do
| it because I like my benefits the way they are.
|
| https://www.ssdcservices.com/
| haskellandchill wrote:
| I had bad RSI and lost the ability to work like I used so I
| adapted, can't force anything. I was homeless and worked at
| McDonalds and Taco Bell before getting a car and delivering
| pizza. Now I'm back at a startup and can work again. If I push
| myself too hard my hands will hurt so I don't. Only advice is
| fight with everything you have but don't push yourself harder
| than will allow you to rebuild and recover your health. America
| sucks. So does most of the world. There is no country to go to
| and be free in. Good luck!
| mpourmpoulis wrote:
| If you are suffering from RSI, you might be interested in
| checking out programming by voice solutions like
|
| https://talonvoice.com/
|
| https://github.com/dictation-toolbox/Caster
|
| https://serenade.ai/
| anonymousiam wrote:
| Get rid of your car. If you aren't working then you don't need
| it. The cost of registration, gas, insurance, maintenance, and
| the payments are things that you don't need. Use public
| transportation or Uber/Lyft. Your costs will be far less than
| now. SSDI became much easier to get a little over 10 years ago.
| You should be approved if you are unable to work and need
| financial support. Have you tried pain management? I have some
| experience with chronic pain, but I am still working thanks to
| some really great pain management doctors.
| handzhiev wrote:
| On the work side, I am surprised no one has suggested
| freelancing. Yes, bidding on sites like Upwork isn't a great way
| to make money especially in the USA, but given your situation,
| it's a way to earn something working on your terms and no more
| that you want or can.
| myshpa wrote:
| > In 2018 I started having problems with chronic pain and
| gradually became less and less capable on the job
|
| _Tame the Beast -- It 's Time to Rethink Persistent Pain,
| Lorimer Moseley_ This 5 minute animation explains how pain works,
| how our nervous system can learn pain, and explains new
| approaches to help reduce an individual's pain. (5 min)
| [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikUzvSph7Z4&vl=en]
|
| _Best Advice for People Taking Opioid Medication, Mike Evans_
| This 11-minute video is great for both patients and clinicians.
| It explains what chronic pain is, what we know about the benefits
| and risks of opioid medications, and how to avoid the pitfalls
| that can be associated with opioid treatment. (11 min)
| [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Na2m7lx-hU]
|
| _Understanding Pain: What to Do About It in Less Than Five
| Minutes?_ This easy to follow 5 minute video about chronic pain
| helps individuals understand what current research has been
| saying about chronic pain - that it's not a joint or muscle
| problem, rather a 're-wiring' of the brain's perception of
| itself. (5 min) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_3phB93rvI]
|
| _Chronic Pain Self-Management Resources_ This document provides
| a list of recommended chronic pain self-management resources that
| might be useful for primary care practices and their patients.
| Materials listed include three provider workbooks /manuals, along
| with resources your clinic might consider suggesting to patients.
| [https://depts.washington.edu/fammed/sixbuildingblocks/wp-con...]
| flatline wrote:
| Can you write code? Plenty of places will hire part time, let you
| work from home, etc. Don't look for big companies, look for small
| and mid sized private businesses. As an aside, I think this is an
| important reason to develop and maintain a social/professional
| network that you can lean on in times like this. I'm sure I have
| friends that would give me a chance at work under these
| circumstances. Maybe you have some of those from years past that
| you could reach out to? You may be surprised who is willing to
| help.
| poochkoishi728 wrote:
| Would you have any suggestions for finding work in small-mid
| private businesses like this? As a developer (mobile with some
| web and backend), I would love to have ongoing part-time work
| to provide enough income and free time to pursue other
| projects.
| murukesh_s wrote:
| Try https://remote.co/remote-jobs or
| https://weworkremotely.com. There are plenty of jobs to
| choose. https://hnhiring.com is also a good resource (which
| curates monthly HN job board). You should be able to land few
| offers soon.
|
| Hang in there..
| titanomachy wrote:
| Radical idea: try a long meditation retreat. Some of them are
| free or by donation (e.g dhamma.org, a little cult-like but I
| think well-intentioned). It also forces a rigorous routine on you
| for a short while, which can help a lot with the aimless feeling.
| The challenge of getting through the full ten days gives you some
| purpose.
|
| It helped a lot with my depression, and some people have found
| serious benefits with chronic pain. It seems to help people
| disconnect from the physical pain and not have it affect other
| aspects of their life as much.
|
| If that doesn't appeal to you, look for other changes that can
| enforce some routine in your life. Taking in-person classes at a
| college, joining a yoga class, meeting a friend for coffee every
| morning, volunteering at a shelter, cooking breakfast for your
| family every day... something that turns your focus towards
| others a little can be helpful.
| turdit wrote:
| it's interesting that no one in the comments suggets maybe we as
| a society should try to find a place where we could plan how to
| implement ubi. considering TLAs are always going to infiltrate
| such a group of people to stop that from happening (on twitter or
| elsewhere) it would be reasonable for people to discuss the
| massive fundamental problems with our society and how situations
| like the one this poster finds himself in number in the hundreds
| of thousands if not millions. and most of them just kill
| themselves. maybe some people here might be able to make the
| mental connection that this is going to affect their own loves at
| some point even if you have a cushy software job at the moment
| oblib wrote:
| >>I started having problems with chronic pain...
|
| I know this is a long shot but if you've not tried it it's worth
| a shot..
|
| Buy some quality local raw honey and start taking a couple
| teaspoons a day. You should know in a couple weeks if it's
| helping.
|
| I had been dealing with severe shoulder pain for close to a year
| when an old friend told to try raw honey. I was hurting bad
| enough to give it a shot. It worked, and it didn't take long
| compared to how long I'd been hurting.
|
| Since then I've told two friends of mine about it who told me
| were dealing pain, one was just two weeks from surgery for it. It
| worked for both of them too.
|
| You might also look into getting some Manuka honey. The
| antibacterial properties are a bit different than local honey so
| if local doesn't work that might.
|
| I can tell you it worked for the three of us.
| [deleted]
| solardev wrote:
| Sorry to hear about your pain =/ That really sucks. I have had
| friends in similar situations and without friends and family to
| help, they're pretty stuck... the US is terrible at taking care
| of its people. That's not on you, our social safety net just
| sucks. Have you looked into local instead of federal
| (city/state/NGO) support systems? Some areas have better support
| than others.
|
| I'm glad to hear you at least are able to play video games and
| lurk on the net... having SOME activities and socialization is
| better than nothing!
|
| That said, in terms of income... if you can do computer stuff,
| have you considered doing some freelance work from Upwork or
| similar? It's not consistent, offers no benefits, doesn't pay
| that great... but it's better than having no work at all. And
| maybe that would let you build up more of a portfolio for other
| companies to see.
|
| Maybe the tech sector proper is at a glut right now, but other
| sectors (manufacturing, retail, etc.) still need devs & people
| with tech skills, and presumably the big ones are better about
| ADA accommodations. Maybe those are worth looking into, whether
| you want to go into the office or find a job that can accomodate
| you working from home?
|
| -----
|
| Also, work aside... it sounds like at least you have time on your
| hands, and have some mobility. Do you have national parks or
| monuments near you? Can you get an America the Beautiful National
| Park Access Pass?
| https://www.nps.gov/subjects/accessibility/access-pass.htm For a
| one-time $10 lifetime cost, it lets you access all of our
| national parks (which often have good ADA accommodations and
| interpretive systems) and similar recreational sites... a great
| way to spend a day or two away from the computer. A lot of them
| offer volunteer or limited part time work opportunities too. You
| won't get rich out of any of them, but it's a good way to feel
| better about the world and yourself and meet cool people to boot.
| Tycho wrote:
| Can you do a dev-adjacent job like SCRUM-master or Agile coach?
| Corporations seem to be big into that the days.
| aborsy wrote:
| I wonder if one could get oneself a piece of land far enough from
| cities and raise chickens or a cow or a couple of goats. A garden
| or similar helps.
|
| In other words, back to good old days!
|
| Is it practical?
| daguar wrote:
| I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. I'm going to mostly
| share info about public benefits in case it's helpful, just
| because that's what I know (and I don't have as much knowledge
| about some of your other questions.)
|
| What state are you in? I know you mentioned SSDI, but just to
| relieve some of the stress of getting by, you should try to apply
| for as many public benefits as you might be eligible for
| (SNAP/food assistance, Medicaid [medical care], affordable
| connectivity program [internet], Lifeline [phone.]) With little
| or no income, you should get some decent support from these
| programs.
|
| For getting disability support (SSDI, or SSI), you might consider
| getting a lawyer. You're right it can take a long time to get
| this, but odds go up if you have a lawyer helping you. You can
| also contact your local legal aid which you may qualify for based
| on income.
|
| In terms of jobs I'll do some thinking and see if I can post
| more. Are there any activities that you can definitely do without
| getting stuck due to your disability? There are definitely
| options for flexible computer work, and also things that are more
| phone-oriented.
| Riseed wrote:
| To add on to this comment, many public benefits are based off
| of financial households (who shares bills), rather than
| physical households (who happens to live under the same roof).
| For example, SNAP eligibility calculation is based off of who
| purchases&prepares food together. If you purchase and prepare
| food separately from the family you live with, then your SNAP
| household size is 1 (just you) and is based off of only your
| own income. Even if you don't think you'll qualify, it's worth
| applying because a) the benefits you receive are based off of
| application date and b) your caseworker may know of unobvious
| ways to adjust your income so you are eligible.
| ploppyploppy wrote:
| Could you try side-gigs like online life coach, programming
| lessons, code review?
| labrador wrote:
| If you are in California and/or you are a veteran, then you have
| two avenues to explore. Both those things being true for me made
| it possible for me to stay off the street.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| You could try making money on a youtube channel, document your
| journey. Could help a lot of people and make a few hundred
| dollars on the side. See if there any exercise that you can
| tolerate. Yoga or kayaking something to keep you moving. Fishing
| could help with getting enough protein on a tight budget or even
| something like trying to grow microgreens on your window sill
| could help you eat healthier. Instapot pressure cooker for
| cooking beans and rice would also help to get enough protein on a
| budget diet.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| Debt: Can you sell the car? Now is a great time to sell. If it's
| a lease, you could post it on leasetrader.com (or similar)...
| again, it's a great time to get out of a lease. It's nice to have
| a car, but it seems like getting out of that would be a healthy
| financial decision. Remote jobs are a plenty, and you live with
| family, so you can tag along with them when you need to get
| groceries until you've got a job and can afford a car again.
|
| If you live within a couple miles of a cafe, then you can walk
| there and back everyday to get out of the cabin fever feeling,
| get some exercise, and change up your scenery for a boost in
| energy. I know a couple miles sounds like a lot, but you have to
| recalibrate your thinking to your current needs. When I didn't
| have a car, I used to walk 4 miles/day. Then I got a bike, no car
| payment or insurance. Then I got a car. Find your path back to
| what makes you happy. Chances are, that doesn't require a car.
|
| Depression: It sounds like you've gone down the clinical route,
| so there's no need to cover that. From there, I'm not sure what
| your aspirations were in the startup world, but you might have to
| be honest with yourself about what is realistic and where your
| skills are now. Again, recalibrate your thinking and take it one
| step at a time. Your immediate task, besides your health, is to
| get a job that you can do.
|
| Again, remote jobs are a plenty. What are your skills? Keep
| applying, keep working, eventually you'll find a remote job were
| the expectations are low and you can keep up. If we knew what
| your skills are, maybe there's even someone here who needs a part
| time person with those skills. Avoid startups and consulting,
| those are going to be high demand and that's not right for you
| right now. You've got this.
| lcall wrote:
| Here is an interesting news article I saw recently about chronic
| pain, in case it is useful. It seemed like it could be a balanced
| look at the field of managing it, now, for what it may be worth:
| https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/27/health/haider-warraich-chroni...
|
| I became disabled due to chronic fatigue syndrome, and as I
| progressed until gradually unable to keep a job, I also went
| through what you are of being denied disability benefits, but a
| good doctor (specialist) helped me w/ an attorney referral, which
| along with letters from former coworkers. HR and family as to my
| condition, some careful record-keeping (hard and draining), and
| being able to stay with family until things stabilized more, were
| a big help when I went to the administrative law judge finally
| about it. My security is church and family, family and church
| (and given the government's track record, that is where it will
| stay--maybe states could do better, but I don't think the US fed
| ever could--long set of experiences there).
|
| So I can sympathize: even though our conditions are different, I
| think there is some overlap. For my situation at least, graded
| exercise therapy or the belief it is all in one's head, are very
| unhelpful ideas (much could be said).
|
| But now things have stabilized, I believe I will get better
| eventually, and there is hope for me, and there is hope for you.
| Don't ever give up.
|
| Here is another recent article (related to overcoming depression
| with a multi-pronged approach, not trying to do everything at
| once but in thoughtful steps), which I thought was very good (has
| some religious aspects, which are actually relevant):
| https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/liahona/2022/07/07...
|
| Again, don't give up. It can really get to where things are OK.
| lcall wrote:
| ps: I don't know if this applies to you, but since there is
| overlap between us (my condition is like a permanent flu: brain
| fog, general body aches, slow at everything, oversensitive to
| stimuli like noises or movement):
|
| Learning _pacing_ (managing activity levels, following a
| sustainable routine) and general routines for managing life
| have been very important for me to get to a stable, somewhat
| predictable state. There is a web site that covers the pacing
| reasons and strategies for chronic fatigue people really well--
| if you want I can dig up the URL. And staying organized within
| those routines (managing todo lists so I dont forget things
| etc) has been necessary, because I just can 't keep the
| essentials and planned tasks all in my head now, since I do
| them so slowly and gradually.
|
| And practicing good mental habits (a learning process, over
| time), and reinforcing them with notes that I review
| periodically (anki, and other in the computer, and some daily
| with a set of mnemonics that grew up over time) has been
| necessary and very helpful also, to not get in a bad set of
| thoughts, but to respond in a good/planned way.
| ajolly wrote:
| I would be very interested in that link.
| lcall wrote:
| http://cfsselfhelp.org
|
| My doctor (Lucinda Bateman, a CFS research coordinator kind
| of person and founder of a center, BHC aka
| https://batemanhornecenter.org which has other materials
| including a CFS self-care brochure kind of thing, and ed.
| materials for doctors--they provide education that counts
| in professional training hours I gather, etc--not a cure so
| far though) recommended the site once. I have very many
| notes & other URLs, not all of known quality. More ideas
| than one can try reasonably, in a lifetime, I guess, so in
| large part I am waiting for COVID-19 research to shed more
| light on CFS, and answers to my prayers, and I expect to
| get better.
|
| My efforts at routines (work vs. rest, doing things one at
| a time, per plan and in order), mental habits etc have
| expanded greatly beyond that. There is some stuff at my web
| site (in profile) which has my email in the footer if you
| ever want to discuss details, ideas, or questions further.
| It's still hard but I feel peaceful and pointed in the
| right direction. Best to you.
| guzik wrote:
| This chronic pain - what is the cause of it? Are you diagnosed
| with fibromyalgia?
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| Fibromyalgia and CFS have been tossed around but never
| officially diagnosed.
|
| The practical experience that I have is frequent exhaustion
| from things that should be easy, difficulty focusing, flu-like
| aches and tons of migraines.
| haolez wrote:
| My aunt had this exact same symptoms. In her case, after
| years, she was diagnosed with diabetes, which some prior
| exams had missed somehow. Treating for diabetes fixed her
| chronic pain.
|
| It's just an anecdote, of course. I hope you get cured :)
| victorclf wrote:
| Have you done a sleep study to check for sleep apnea?
| [deleted]
| ghastmaster wrote:
| I had similar except the migraines, from gallstones and
| cervical spine misalignment. I suffered for over a decade,
| but never gave up hope. Once the obvious pain showed up in
| the gallbladder and I found a good chiropractor, my issues
| are almost completely gone.
|
| All I can say is focus on fixing the problem. Do whatever you
| need to do to diagnose yourself, heal yourself, and focus.
| Going to work through the pain an fatigue was tolerable only
| because it kept me able to pay the chiro/surgery bills.
|
| Self diagnosis comes through process of elimination
| sometimes. Try eliminating or adding different things from/to
| your diet for a month, one at a time.
| jessermeyer wrote:
| I've lived through this myself. There is hope. I had the
| great fortune of being able to live with family until I could
| weather the storm. It turned out I needed to de-stress by
| life, live with accepting people, and eat delicious and
| healthy food over the coarse of a few years. I had destroyed
| by mind and body burning the candle at both ends with little
| to no nourishment (physically and non-physically), and the
| tax man came.
|
| Every hope for your success..
| vimy wrote:
| Fibromyalgia, CFS, .. labels like that are used when the
| doctors have no clue, just give up and don't wanna look
| further into your issues. Then they blame it on stress and
| psychological issues. That's 1000 % wrong.
|
| Most likely you have a virus or bacterial infection that
| hasn't been detected yet. I'm in a very similar situation
| like you so I'm speaking from personal experience. Ever been
| bitten by a tick? Do you have gut issues?
|
| Read this, very important:
| https://www.hardtowrite.com/pathogens/
|
| As for earning money: Assuming you're too unwell to consult,
| you can do mindless tasks on Appen.
| https://connect.appen.com/qrp/public/home Things like
| checking search results for Bing or Google, improving Apple &
| Google maps. Pay is between $15, $24 / hour depending on the
| project.
| ck_one wrote:
| You should all (also OP) look into Fabry. It's a genetic
| disease which for some only shows up in adulthood. My Mum
| went through decades of chronic pain and though she had
| Fibromyalgia. There are dozens of papers showing how Fabry
| is often misdiagnosed as Fibro.
| code_duck wrote:
| Doctors checked me out for various things and then sent me
| to a psychologist who declared I had "health anxiety" when
| I was developing adult-onset type 1 diabetes. I had been in
| pain for months, every day, and lost tons of weight, then
| turned it around with a very specific diet (coincidentally
| low carb) and they acted like I was just being paranoid
| about food. It's maddening how some doctors, for one reason
| or another, disregard almost anything a patient says.
| code_duck wrote:
| I had increasing difficulty with fatigue for years and it
| turned out to be Celiac disease. Then, I got type 1 diabetes
| after going GF to treat Celiac, which was a slow onset which
| made things very difficult for 1-2 years. My situation isn't
| too different than what you describe, actually, even after
| diagnoses and treatment.
|
| Have you been checked out for celiac? I had all sorts of
| unexplained health effects but the #1 thing was feeling
| exhausted all the time and falling asleep after lunch every
| day.
| tgflynn wrote:
| Those symptoms sound very similar to the fatigue I have,
| but I have type 2 diabetes and the fatigue started very
| suddenly after a brief viral infection. I've had the usual
| tests for Celiac but they were negative. I have seen some
| signs of improvement on a very low carb diet but it hasn't
| been consistent and I have trouble sticking to that kind of
| diet due to cost coupled with the fact that, as an amputee,
| it's hard for me to get to grocery stores.
| nikhizzle wrote:
| First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. My
| wife has chronic pain and had to give up a career she loved so I
| have some second hand experience with this.
|
| Can you code? If so please email me and I may be able to give you
| some work paid per deliverable. You can work on your own schedule
| without pressure. Nothing huge, just enough to get you started.
|
| Email in profile
| tgflynn wrote:
| > Can you code? If so please email me and I may be ble to give
| you some work paid per deliverable. You can work on your own
| schedule without pressure.
|
| I'm not the OP, but I'm in a somewhat similar situation, and
| yes I can code, but my useful hours are very limited by chronic
| fatigue.
|
| Do you think that what you're describing is generalizable ? I
| mean do you think that there are enough people who could use
| the kind of work you are describing so that it could benefit
| the, probably very many of us, who are in the OP's situation,
| rather than just be a one off for one person ?
| nikhizzle wrote:
| Please get in touch if you are interested. I think there is
| definitely enough work, but I think you need very talented
| managers to enable this kind of work mode. I would argue
| there is a shortage of high enough quality managers, and no
| clear incentive to train up managers to this quality.
| pkaye wrote:
| Although it doesn't help the OP, another option in private LTD. I
| knew someone who had terrible bad pain that even surgery didn't
| help and they used their employers LTD and it was easier to get
| approved along with much higher payments than SSDI. And if
| structured right, its tax free. So even if running a startup or
| consulting, you should make sure you have LTD coverage.
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| Everyone (in America at least) should make sure they have LTD
| coverage of some sort if they can. The public benefits options
| just aren't there. This was a mistake I made.
| specialist wrote:
| You can dig yourself out of this hole. It's a lot of work. You'll
| have to do things that are challenging, which make you
| uncomfortable.
|
| I know you can. Asking for help is a huge step. You clearly want
| to get to a better place.
|
| --
|
| Ya, you'll need a lawyer for SSDI. I solicited referrals,
| contacted about 20, interviewed a handful, and then ultimately
| picked this one https://www.ddmglaw.com/about/ Look for someone
| similar close to you. Though everything's done remote now, so
| location might not matter.
|
| You probably qualify for Medicaid too. Ditto food stamps.
|
| Contact everyone to arrange late payments. You'll be surprised
| how accomodating some will be. For instance, I paused my mortgage
| for 9 months, and with the COVID carve outs, it was just some
| forms.
|
| Your utilities might have special rates for low income. In my
| case, again, it was just some forms.
|
| --
|
| As for pain...
|
| All I can say is don't accept "no" or "i don't know". Someone
| somewhere has the answers you need.
|
| Last year I enrolled in Swedish Hospital's Pain Services program.
| It covered a huge amount of material. Stuff like tai chi,
| breathing, graded motor imagery, the latest in pain science, and
| more. I nicknamed the program "Pain College".
|
| Pain College worked for me. Amazing. Beforehand, I would have bet
| against it.
|
| Here it is. https://www.swedish.org/services/pain-services Don't
| judge them by their web site; they have no control over it. And
| it certainly does not reflect what they actually do. When I first
| saw it, I thought "ya ya ya, I've done all that already." I'm
| glad I enrolled anyway.
|
| I'll checkout all the other tips and links. My next hurdle is
| some myofascial pain. I'm always learning new stuff to try.
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| Write. My career blew up early and I've clawed my way back, but
| can't imagine what it's like to be in your shoes, but..
|
| I read a Priceonomics article entitled "What it's Like to Fail"
| and it really moved me during a low point in my life. The subject
| of the article wrote over 100 episodes of the TV show Roseanne,
| and wound up living in a van. The article, and the book he wrote
| to earn money, put a lot of emphasis on writing jobs; gig jobs.
| He wrote, wrote, and wrote more and slowly pulled himself back
| up.
|
| https://priceonomics.com/what-its-like-to-fail/
|
| Also, when I volunteered with the homeless I found the mormons to
| be an incredible resource. Most people don't know this, but the
| Mormon church is VERY giving and expects nothing in return. If
| you live near a larger city, the church has stores of food and
| supplies, and produce food to give to those in need.
|
| Call your local mormon church, talk to the Bishop or a
| Missionary, and they will be slap happy over the moon to help. At
| the very least they can help supply food and other necessities.
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| One more thing, and this I know from professional experience:
| If you get turned down for SSDI, appeal. Most get turned down
| the first time, but nearly 100% of people are accepted on
| appeal.
| WhitneyLand wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It may seem hopeless at
| times but remember working at startups is quite challenging and
| you did that - and faced challenges lots of people wouldn't care
| to try to.
|
| Your current assets and your psychology are two different things.
| Every improvement you can wring out with the latter, could be the
| piece of strength you need to deal with the other. Seek out any
| way you can to build up mentally bit by bit. Even little things
| if they can make a difference.
|
| I'm no expert on this stuff but I wanted to let you know you're
| not alone out there.
| WhitneyLand wrote:
| Wow downvoted for trying to be encouraging? Guess I need to
| practice that more, I honestly intended the words
| compassionately.
| grezql wrote:
| Arete314159 wrote:
| I have been where you are. It's terrible and the United States is
| a terrible place to have these kinds of problems.
|
| I have a few thoughts.
|
| 1. Focus on finances. You say you're behind on your car payments.
| With the upside-down state of the current car market, there's an
| outside chance you could sell it at a profit, maybe clear 10k. (I
| have no idea what kind of car you have, but 10k > sales price is
| not unusual right now.) Maybe you could sell it, pay off the
| note, and have enough left to buy a very basic used car?
|
| 2. SSDI. A disability law firm can be helpful. I used them for
| LTD but they exist for SSDI as well. For LTD they work on a
| commission of your back pay once you are approved. YMMV.
|
| 3. Part-time work - at this point your focus needs to be on
| survival. What can you do, that's relatively in demand? Start
| there, worry about perfection in your career path another time.
| P/T flexible jobs for disabled people -- that's a need that's
| been unmet for years, but there are some developments in it. Try
| https://www.wearecapable.org// .
|
| 4. Keep up with the therapy. Also investigate nutritional
| deficiencies, thyroid imbalances, etc. Fixing them won't "fix"
| your problems, but it'll give you more physical and mental
| strength to deal with them. For more info see my short essay:
| https://radiosof.com/2019/09/22/some-interesting-tools-for-d....
| The embedded links also link to some other essays on genetic and
| nutritional components to depression. Some of these can also
| affect inflammatory response as well. So finding out if you're
| bad at methylation and supplementing with B-12 shots and
| methylfolate (for example) could also potentially reduce some
| pain levels somewhat. Which would then allow you to think and
| strategize more clearly.
|
| 5. Depending on your issues, it's great to have really smart,
| genius-level doctors on your side. The Center for Complex
| Diseases in Mountain View is one such a place. I'm not sure
| chronic pain is their specialty, but perhaps you can call them
| and ask. I think Stanford has a pain clinic as well?
|
| You're used to the YC world, where they talk about "10x" coders.
| Well, there are "10x" doctors. Once you get into the world of
| invisible hard-to-treat illnesses and you're trying to qualify
| for disability, you NEED a 10x doctor. First, b/c they might help
| you improve. And second, because they see people like you _all
| day_ and they are going to be better at helping you qualify for
| disability than a regular primary care doctor.
|
| I would recommend calling the Center for Complex Diseases, and
| asking if they cover patients like you, and if not, who they
| recommend. Then put the very expensive appointments on your
| credit card or borrow money, do what you have to. They are an
| investment in your ability to qualify for SSDI. A few thousands
| now may guarantee $18k/ year for the foreseeable future.
|
| 6. This website is the Bible for people navigating disability
| applications: https://howtogeton.wordpress.com/
|
| Good Luck!
| dmos62 wrote:
| I heard good things about Viktor Frankl's books, e.g.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning. He went
| through Auschwitz and learned (and then tought) how to deal with
| hardship.
|
| People who are willing to work with you, who you can help, even
| in the context of your handicap, exist. Find them. Be honest
| about your handicaps.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| Man's search for meaning is certainly inspiring. If you read,
| it's worth adding to the queue even if you aren't experiencing
| hardship. It's a tough read at times.
|
| I agree about being honest about handicaps. Especially if you
| know they can get in the way. People can easily forgive that
| when they know what to expect. I've been more upfront about it
| and having no issue finding work, but I feel far more at ease
| as a result. I'm even getting older; I'm 36 with a mild
| disability. I would have thought I'd be unemployable earlier in
| my life. Good people exist, and they get it. Definitely seek
| them out.
|
| As for the search for meaning. I read that at a dark point in
| my own life and the main thing I got from it was perspective.
| What he describes is unimaginable. What I was experiencing was
| very imaginable. I found that very helpful.
|
| Stoic philosophy has a sort of "zooming out" mechanism used to
| remind the practitioner how small they are in the scheme of
| things, how little their troubles matter, and Man's Search For
| Meaning is an incredible tool for accomplishing this. Very few
| people can truthfully say their struggles are greater. It's a
| window into how fortunate most of us, even with our hardships.
|
| Chronic pain is legitimately hard to mentally distance yourself
| from though. Don't hold it against yourself if reading the book
| doesn't allow you to do so. I had chronic sciatica for around a
| year once and while I was young and stupid, I don't think I'd
| handle it well today either. It was disabling in a truly
| unflagging and monolithic sense. I have no idea why it went
| away, but I can genuinely feel a sense of relief each time I
| think of it. It was torture.
|
| Above all I would say don't blame yourself or imagine you
| should do better or differently or whatever. Each step is part
| of it, whether it's a good or bad step. You do the best you can
| with what you've got, mentally and physically, and no one said
| any of it would be easy. To be depressed about it is
| understandable. To be tired of it is as well. Struggling makes
| sense. Don't hold that against yourself, if you do at all, and
| hopefully that can provide some relief.
|
| Best of luck OP, and hopefully the traction this post got helps
| you see that people care, they understand, they relate. You
| aren't alone.
| ytNumbers wrote:
| I've never had a medical condition that took me out of the
| workforce. It's sad that you've been dealt a bad hand in life.
| It's got to be hugely frustrating. You seem to have (correctly in
| my opinion) concluded that given your current limitations, there
| is no point in you applying for jobs. Most people who have been
| out of work for a year never return to the workforce. The
| majority of them might enjoy a "retired" sort of lifestyle.
| However, since you describe your life as "absolutely soul
| sucking", I would recommend that you remedy that by, from 9AM-5PM
| Mon-Fri, take the following drastic steps: Turn off the TV, video
| games, and aimless web browsing. It sounds like you are still
| capable of making money with online "gig" work of some type.
| Given your medical condition, you may or may not be able to
| perform the type of work you would enjoy. You should ask yourself
| what sorts of endeavors you are "world class" at, and then see if
| there are online gigs that are suitable for you. People who are
| detail oriented can make money at a wide range of online jobs.
| You should try to find an online gig type of job that makes you
| excited to get up in the morning. You need to make money, but you
| also need a reason to get up in the morning. I realize that the
| advice I've offered will not be easy. Most people in your
| situation would prefer to simply relax and take it easy. The
| easiest thing in life is to do nothing.
| poochkoishi728 wrote:
| Any suggestions for finding such detail-oriented work? As a
| developer (mobile with some web and backend), I would love to
| find ongoing part-time work to provide enough income and free
| time to pursue other projects.
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| I understand where you're coming from but, while pain is always
| present, it follows a pattern of flare-ups which aren't easy to
| predict.
|
| For example, I had a splitting migraine for 63 days straight,
| starting the day after Christmas this year. It took my
| neurologist designing a migraine-breaking drug cocktail to
| break it.
| mynameishere wrote:
| Lots of credulity in here. "Worst of all, my life is pretty
| drab." I'll bet.
|
| I wonder what the person who watches him play video games all day
| thinks about his inability to work due to "chronic pain".
| scarlet_lovah wrote:
| Tell me you've never been depressed without telling me you've
| never been depressed.
| onion2k wrote:
| Lean into your network. Use the fact you have access to YC. Find
| a company that will give you a job doing what you can with the
| hours you're able to do. A killer network like the one that's
| open to you is something most people don't have.
| Hydraulix989 wrote:
| If you are able to push through the pain and exercise, I have
| heard it can be helpful, even if it's just light stretching. You
| might also want to get checked for sleep apnea. I know far too
| many comorbid cases of chronic pain and sleep disorders.
| trane_project wrote:
| With respect to the chronic pain, I'd suggest some kind of
| embodied mindfulness practice to help alleviate the symptoms. I
| assume Western medicine has not been able to help you much on
| that front.
|
| There are tons of techniques out there, some of which have been
| proven by scientists to help reduce the symptoms of chronic pain.
| I'd suggest you find someone qualified teacher, since doing some
| of these on your own might be dangerous.
|
| If you are willing to go for something more out there, I'd
| recommend reading this book https://www.amazon.com/Meditation-
| Saved-My-Life-Tibetan/dp/1... (it's free on libgen). It's the
| story of a Tibetan monk which was tortured in a Chinese jail and
| developed gangrene in one of his ankles, which progressed to the
| point of almost killing him and destroyed his joint. Doctors kept
| pressuring to have his foot amputated, but he sensed it'd be the
| wrong choice. Eventually, he went into retreat in his apartment
| and practiced some techniques for healing he had been taught in
| Tibet. Within a year, his foot was mostly healed, and eventually
| his body somehow managed to grow a new ankle joint.
|
| The book is not explicit about what he did, but the two main
| practices he alludes to are called "tsa lung" (moving energy
| through the body) and reciting the "Medicine Buddha" mantra. I
| think you'll need an instructor if you want to practice "Tsa
| Lung" (the monk in the book teaches it, but he moved to France).
| But Medicine Buddha mostly involves reciting mantras and should
| be safe.
|
| I don't have a lot of personal experience with the Medicine
| Buddha mantra, but reciting another mantra ("om mani padme hum")
| and similar practices cured a chronic depression that lasted more
| than five years. Saying "cure" is a bit of an understatement,
| because my outlook on life has radically changed. My external
| circumstances have not changed a lot, but most of the internal
| turmoil has mostly subsided. So on the base of that, I am willing
| to consider the possibility that a monk might regrow a joint by
| reciting a mantra.
|
| You don't have to believe in cosmic blue Buddhas (in fact, the
| official position is that they don't inherently exist, just like
| you and me). I think of these practices as a technology developed
| by a culture that put the mind at the front and center of their
| inquiry into the nature of reality.
|
| Here's some references: - Medicine Buddha mantra (so you hear
| what it sounds like): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoGmifZperY
| - A more involved practice:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on7kiQawZJ0
|
| This second one is a more traditional presentation, so it might
| not be your cup of tea. But I am including it anyway just so you
| can get an explanation from someone qualified. Again, sorry if
| this is too out there. But again, I doubt you posted here because
| you wanted to hear the same answers you get anywhere else.
| berberous wrote:
| Not to derail this thread or to sound like I am criticizing OP,
| but everyone should take this post as a reminder to look into
| having a disability insurance policy. Your megacorp may offer a
| policy, but look into getting your own guaranteed renewable non-
| cancelable policy, as it provides greater protection. The
| Bogleheads wiki has a good page describing what is important to
| obtain in such a policy.
| brianwawok wrote:
| It's unclear to me that this case would be covered though? It's
| not hard if you lose your legs or arms. Pain and related topics
| are likely excluded from your standard policy.
| berberous wrote:
| I am not an expert on disability insurance, so I recommend
| everyone do their own research and speak to a disability
| insurance independent broker to get tailored advice, but if
| you have a "true own occupation" and "partial disability"
| coverage, then I think you would be covered, e.g. if you are
| a programmer that can no longer code more than half time due
| to carpal tunnel, I would think you could collect 50%
| disability even if you could work full time as a waiter.
|
| Of course, it's likely harder to prove such a claim, as the
| insurance companies look out for fraud. But if you have a
| clear and well-documented history, medical files, etc., I
| would think you should be eligible.
|
| Note that your megacorp group insurance policy is likely more
| limited, e.g. it may not have any coverage for partial
| disability.
|
| Happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable.
| brianwawok wrote:
| Right, not an expert either. But you moved the goalpost a
| little.
|
| Carpal tunnel is a medical condition. You can take an xray
| and see inflamation and rule it.
|
| You can't really do that with pain or brainfog. There is no
| test "how real is this persons pain".
| berberous wrote:
| Again, not an expert, but I would guess that in a "good"
| comprehensive disability insurance policy, chronic pain
| or brain fog is not an excluded condition, per se. It may
| be much harder to get the insurance company to accept
| your claim, but that is an issue of proof, not
| contractual exclusion. I would also guess that a good
| attorney could help make your claim succeed, even if
| initially denied, if it can be shown through the totality
| of the circumstances, e.g. a long history of doctors
| appointments, pain pills, attempts and inability to keep
| working due to the pain, a decrease in normal life
| activities (e.g. you used to be an avid sportsman and
| have clearly ceased all those activities), etc. If you
| claim your pain is horrible but they catch you skiing on
| vacation in Italy, even if somehow that was during a lull
| in your pain, that's probably going to not help your
| claim.
| eclipticplane wrote:
| Since we're on this topic: any notably good insurance companies
| that folks would recommend if we're talking privately purchased
| disability insurance?
| pram wrote:
| Mine is through Principal, because it covers mental and
| nervous system issues too. It was the only one that did when
| I was looking.
|
| I'd also like to add that if you end up collecting, DI
| payments are TAX FREE. The second I found out this existed I
| got a policy asap lol
| berberous wrote:
| DI payments are tax free if you pay the premiums out of
| pocket. If the employer pays your premium through a group
| policy, the payments are taxable.
|
| At least that's my understanding, anyone reading should
| confirm with a DI broker.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| > disability insurance policy
|
| You know people on group disability policies can have to wait
| up to 18 months for disability while their disability insurance
| unreasonably denies their claim, and that the laws governing
| these plans don't actually allow you to collect damages but
| only the disability benefits you were actually owed in the
| first place?
|
| It might be better than SSDI, but not much.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I have a friend that was a doctor for over 25 years. Made great
| money, but ended up having a career-ending disability.
|
| He had been buying disability insurance, the whole time (he
| says it was pretty expensive).
|
| It ended up saving his ass. He makes more money from the
| disability insurance, and SSI (It is possible to get it, if you
| have doctors. Many lawyers also help -for a percentage), than
| many folks make, working.
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| I am not in any way offended by this. I agree 100%. It was a
| mistake not to have disability insurance.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| If it makes you feel any better, group disability insurance
| is notorious for being some of the scummiest insurers out
| there. Their whole thing is deny deny deny. You may have to
| file a federal lawsuit to try to just get the benefits you
| were owed and in the end with group disability and it could
| take just as long as SSDI.
| pragmatic wrote:
| Good point.
|
| Pro tip: get this while you are employed full time before you
| jump into self employment (at least look into it).
| deberon wrote:
| What are your professional skills? I work for a chronic pain
| management startup and we have a lot of needs.
| thrwtllwy wrote:
| Backend web-centric, leadership, plus other misc things I
| learned as a founder. Can you drop me a message? I can imagine
| a chronic pain startup being a place that would understand the
| needs of a chronic pain patient.
|
| tyvm for the shrimp at gmail dot com
| therealdavesky wrote:
| Your story is sadly not unique: being broke and unemployed is
| awful, and there are millions in the same situation. You are not
| alone! Firstly, this post you made right here and now may be the
| turning point, at least your story is known by others and maybe
| the right person will read it. Secondly, although it may sound a
| bit trite, perhaps now is the time of your life to really decide
| what matters the most to you, and focus just on that. Whatever it
| is that you really love, try to make it your primary thing. And
| the better you get at it, the more likely there is someone out
| there who needs your help. It is a big world and no matter what
| your skills are, there is someone who can benefit from them if
| you are an expert. Keep putting your name out there and make sure
| people hear from you. It sounds as if your mind is still working
| just fine, and it is your greatest resource, and can be a source
| of wealth to come!
| twawaaay wrote:
| The question is "Can you program"?
|
| If the answer is "Yes", then stop watching TV, playing video
| games and lurking on the internet.
|
| Honestly, this will sound heartless, but if you can play video
| games you can also work. The problem is more in your head and you
| need to shed the victim thinking and start focusing on what
| valuable you can do.
|
| Even if your output is less than it was before, you can probably
| pay for a reasonable lifestyle.
|
| Right now there is a lot of huge companies that will hire anybody
| that can code anything. Trust me on this. It is total seller's
| market. There are people who can't code and still get the job.
|
| You say you are burned backend-centered web developer? You can
| probably get hired for full time, less ambitious job or contract
| and do your job in a fraction of time. The key word is "Less
| Ambitious". Which should help with your burnout. Just put a very
| strict work time / free time boundaries.
|
| My burnout comes when I can't leave work even when I am at home
| and the solution is to give yourself permission to have time off.
| It is all in your mind.
| lumost wrote:
| This advice is not particularly effective. Getting hired into a
| backend firm is tough as all of them want the same things, if
| you don't have those things - then getting a company to "yes"
| is hard.
|
| People watch tv and play video games because they do not have a
| high mental demand. If you are on pain medication, or going
| without - your "free" mental cycles may be non existent
| twawaaay wrote:
| When I was burned out I got hired into a large bank (think
| Citi, Credit Suisse, maybe not necessarily Goldman Sachs
| which has high standards).
|
| They have huge amount of backend. Super slow development
| filled with people who do not have large ambitions and only
| express them so that they are not labeled as waste. My
| principal developer was a woman from India who could not
| write a loop. She worked there for 6 years. Deadlines are not
| deadlines, only suggestions (just make sure you are not
| working for a team that has regulatory deadlines).
|
| Perfect place for a person that wants to just get by with as
| little effort as possible. You don't even have to think bad
| about it -- as long as you know how to code and are doing
| slow, steady, honest progress you probably are doing more
| than most of people working there.
|
| As to playing video games -- yes, they have high mental
| demand. The only difference between solving problems while
| playing the game and solving problems in IDE is your will
| power. Games are fun and work not necessarily.
|
| When I was burned out I would not do anything. I would lie
| still and do nothing because I had no willingness to. I think
| if you can play games you can also sit by the computer and do
| other things.
| Delk wrote:
| > As to playing video games -- yes, they have high mental
| demand. The only difference between solving problems while
| playing the game and solving problems in IDE is your will
| power.
|
| This isn't really true.
|
| Disregarding the fact that the mental demands of software
| engineering work and games can be of different kinds, there
| is also absolutely a difference in volition.
|
| Games are played voluntarily, and there's generally no
| external pressure (at least in single player games). Facing
| demands at work -- or even having the obligation to show up
| -- is not voluntary. You can also switch games at will. You
| can stop playing at will. Most people can't do those at
| work, at least not to the extent that one would actually
| feel free to do so.
|
| Whether you've got a sense of control and are doing things
| voluntarily, or whether you're doing the same things
| because you are or feel forced or obliged to, can AFAIK
| show up as actual differences in your neural activity (with
| stress-related areas being more active in the latter case).
|
| Anecdotally, and based on personal experience, burnout can
| also seriously turn things you used to enjoy into something
| that triggers immediate anxiety and (malignant) stress.
| That might be similar to the difference in volition if an
| activity that used to be within your control and more or
| less your own choice turns into a malignant stress-inducing
| forced one. At least it certainly doesn't help if you're
| both feeling forced to do something you don't feel is
| within your control _and_ getting a massive stress spike
| out of even thinking about it.
|
| If you want to twist that, you could still technically say
| it's in your head, but it can be an actual physical
| difference.
|
| You're not wrong about all the things you're saying.
| Finding a place with lower actual demands, and settling
| with that at least for the time being, might actually be a
| good idea for OP. It's quite possible that OP might have a
| much greater chance at landing such a job than it feels
| right now. It's quite possible that some things actually
| aren't as bad as they feel to them right now.
|
| But saying someone is capable of doing a mentally (and, in
| burnout, probably emotionally) taxing thing A because
| they're capable of doing thing B that may or may not also
| be mentally taxing in a similar or different way isn't
| quite right.
|
| And pinning things onto the will power of a burned out
| person can be outright dangerous.
|
| I have no reason to doubt your personal experiences, but
| other people's experiences with burnout can be rather
| different from yours.
| Camrecorder wrote:
| twawaaay wrote:
| Being burned out is a real condition. And so is
| depression, chronic pains, tinnitus, and so on.
|
| Just because something is hard to ascertain doesn't mean
| it is not real.
|
| But there are various levels to being burned out or
| depressed. And then there are people who aren't really
| burned or depressed, they are just looking to rationalise
| their laziness. Which is the person that wrote the post?
| We don't know.
|
| What I know is that if you have mental capacity to play
| video games you can also most likely do a lot of other
| things.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| > Further, all of my experience is in startups and that makes me
| less palatable to larger companies, but larger companies have
| more options to accommodate disabled people.
|
| My understanding is lots of large enterprise/legacy companies are
| constantly looking for startup experience since they want to
| replicate the startup success with their own projects and often
| consider their own projects to be startsup.
| dave_sullivan wrote:
| > My understanding is lots of large enterprise/legacy companies
| are constantly looking for startup experience
|
| They certainly say that, but in my experience it is not true.
| They want cubicle monkeys with a CS degree that can do leet
| code.
| that_guy_iain wrote:
| For the tech team but not for management. They love some
| fancy consultants with some vague set of achievements.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Sorry to hear of your situation and wish you the best.
|
| > I live as cheaply as I possibly can at this point. I live with
| family and only pay for absolute necessities.
|
| My advice: sell the car or make the car generate income (delivery
| or app driving). Without income and near the bottom of your bank
| account is not the time to be driving a car new/expensive enough
| to have a loan on.
| SkyMarshal wrote:
| It sounds like the root cause of all your problems is this
| chronic pain, and you need to focus all your efforts on solving
| it first. One option is to sign up for clinical trials at various
| chronic pain research centers around the country. Stanford is one
| of them, there are plenty others, hopefully near where you live.
|
| https://stanfordhealthcare.org/medical-clinics/pain-manageme...
|
| https://med.stanford.edu/pain.html
|
| https://med.stanford.edu/pain/about/chronic-pain.html
|
| Some years ago I developed chronic lower back pain from poor
| sitting posture. It was partially debilitating - not to the level
| yours is, but it significantly negatively impacted my ability to
| stay active and thus healthy and thus able to maintain peak
| performance at work. But I joined a Stanford clinical trial on
| lower back pain, and it cured me permanently, and they even paid
| me a small stipend for it! So I think it's worth a try if you can
| swing it.
| schlameel wrote:
| I've been in the same situation for a very long time so I
| understand and feel for you. I've often considered creating
| something for people in our situation (a team that work together
| to cover the times when a member is unable to work), but I'm not
| a founder and don't know where to start. I realize it's not a
| short term solution but if you are interested or just want to
| talk, you can email me at my username at Gmail.
|
| BTW, an attorney for the SSDI appeal isn't a bad idea. There are
| downsides but they do navigate it all the time and the deck is
| not stacked in you favor. Also find a pain specialist with legal
| experience; it's important they know what to say since there are
| no scans or x-rays or blood tests that can say why you are laying
| in bed in tears waiting to be able to take the next pain med.
| ehudt wrote:
| For your chronic pain, I recommend reading "The Mind Body
| Prescription" by Dr John Sarno. Saved my sanity and my career 7
| years ago.
| newman8r wrote:
| > I can't even afford to toss a few bucks into side projects so I
| at least have something to do with my time...
|
| Lots of people work on side projects with no money nowadays - the
| situation is different than it was 10 years ago. Even putting a
| beta out there is doable for free with AWS credits or the free
| tier.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| chronic pain: Check your sitting posture and blood flow,
| especially upper neck. It's a modern-day epidemic among screen
| workers:
|
| https://getradiantlife.com/poor-posture-a-modern-day-epidemi...
| weakfish wrote:
| Have you been chronically depressed before? Paragraph two comes
| across extremely snobby and out of touch in regards to
| depressed people.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| that wasn't my intention. edited the post.
| simonebrunozzi wrote:
| Hey. Sorry to hear about your issues. I would love to help, but I
| don't know how to.
|
| I am based in Europe, but used to live in the US. Is there a
| specific type of job, even if part-time, that you think you could
| do well?
| bandrade wrote:
| If you're looking for part time work in tech, if you're patient
| with upwork and similar sites you can find roles for 10-20 hours
| a week that pay decently.
| bartread wrote:
| Do you have any particular IC skillset? E.g., software
| development, QA, UX. Would you be willing to learn a new stack if
| you had to?
|
| No promises but, if so (and assuming you don't get plenty of
| better suggestions and offers here), drop me an email: bart
| PERIOD read THEALIKECHARACTERTHATISNTANAMPERSAND savanta DECIMAL
| POINT com.
|
| I'm the CTO so have a meaningful level of influence but can also
| tell you that what's most likely to scupper us working with you,
| apart from a skillset mismatch, will be some BS about creating IP
| and taxation within a US state (or some other legal nonsense that
| makes it hard or impossible to work with you even though we are
| incorporated in the US).
|
| I'm sorry I can't be more directly encouraging but do reach out
| if you're interested and I'll see if I can help.
|
| EDIT: One other thing that might be useful to us, doable part
| time, and would I think sidestep any issues around IP creation.
| How are your management skills? And might you be willing to work
| slightly odd hours? E.g., afternoons, to cross over with the UK
| (obviously depends where you are in the US).
| iamzaceffron wrote:
| prewett wrote:
| This is brainstorming for what I might try if I were in your
| situation:
|
| - try contracting! There are a lot of people who need a basic MVP
| written and do not have the skills themselves. Not everyone has a
| tight deadline, either, and if you're paid hourly, if you are too
| tired to work one day, no problem, they just don't pay you. Just
| set good expectations ("I can only commit to 20 hrs/wk, but may
| be able to do more", no need to mention why). Between skills,
| availability, and rate, there is a lot of room to maneuver: a
| very skilled US developer who can only work 10 hrs/wk but who
| charges a low rate might be quite worth it. (But choose clients
| carefully) I know Toptal has had a lot of these kind of jobs, and
| I expect the other agencies also have a lot.
|
| - look for companies with lower expectations. From what I've
| heard (i.e. HN comments :), often small, non-tech companies might
| find even basic stuff really helpful. Also, big companies have a
| lot of time spent not-coding.
|
| - you could specialize in understanding code to fix bugs. Fixing
| problems in million line code-bases involves a lot of reading and
| experiments, not banging out code. This pairs well with
| contracting, but this is also an asset to big companies.
|
| - if your pain is physical (e.g. wrists), you might try voice
| input. My brother knows a blind developer (who uses Linux [!]),
| he presumably isn't typing 100 WPM, but is reliably employed.
|
| - consider leveraging your technical abilities in other fields
| that don't involve typing/standing/sitting. As I understand it,
| technical sales (e.g. selling devices to engineers) requires
| understanding how the products benefit the customers and visiting
| customers, not cranking out code. "Applications engineering" is
| sort of like high-level tech support and consulting, and some
| engineering companies have a group like this.
|
| - consulting to fellow founders. I'm sure you have something to
| offer.
|
| - management or PM, and I assume you have experience with at
| least one of these as a founder. You can also do this as contract
| work; I've seen contract work for PMs, small team managers, and
| even CTO. (Presumably the CTO contract position was for a rather
| small company which was either too small to need a FT CTO, or
| bridging the gap until they found someone permanent.)
|
| - tutoring HS math/science/programming. From what I've heard,
| tutoring rates can be quite good, especially if you target the
| market that can pay.
|
| - if you need money _right now_ , $1500/month at part time (80
| hrs/month) is $19/hr, which is fairly achievable. This isn't fun
| or glamorous, but I know second-hand that doing phone support for
| AT&T, Verizon, etc. is paying about this; I expect they are
| always looking for people. My friend, who took the job (half-
| time) because of some physical limitations, went through a month
| of frustration, but came to an understanding of what the business
| goals/limitations are. He also quickly got promoted to trainer,
| so he enjoyed his role more. Not something you'd want to make a
| career out of, but it would stabilize the situation, and you'd
| still have 80 hrs to explore alternatives.
|
| Also, this probably isn't a popular HN approach, but if your pain
| is physical, you could try divine healing. Find a charismatic
| church and ask for prayer for healing; if it doesn't work, at
| least it'll probably be a new experience. If you're near Redding,
| CA, the Bethel Healing Rooms has hundreds of people that come
| every Saturday, and I personally know a number of people that
| have been healed. (Don't read too much on the web, though, there
| are a lot of opposition to Charismatics that are opposed because
| of doctrine and take stuff all out of context. All the naysayers
| are really motivated to make websites going into depth about all
| the failings, but all the people that have a great experience
| don't have a burning desire to create websites about it, so
| search results are really skewed.)
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I wish the OP the very best. I can't offer any more suggestions,
| as I suspect there is a great deal more to the story. I am quite
| aware that finding ourselves in this kind of hole is devastating
| and humiliating. Getting out, often requires a _lot_ of work.
|
| I have known (and still do know) folks in the same boat. My own
| "origin story" is one that has some ... _exciting bits_ ...
|
| Some folks have managed to do well in life, despite the
| challenges; some, not so well. Not everyone can climb out on
| their own, and the type of help we need, varies greatly, on the
| kinds of things we don't want to talk about or face.
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