[HN Gopher] Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after severa...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ubuntu Unity desktop back from the dead after several years' hiatus
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 200 points
       Date   : 2022-07-02 07:45 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theregister.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theregister.com)
        
       | skocznymroczny wrote:
       | I used to dislike Unity when it came out. I thought it's weird
       | with the global menu, close button in the top-left corner and
       | other ideas. However, after using macOS for a longer period of
       | time, I got used to these ideas and actually prefer them
       | nowadays. After that Unity became one of my favorite desktop
       | environments.
        
         | knorker wrote:
         | The fact that unity just seemed like "let's cargo cult macos"
         | while they were bragging about how awesome they were
         | ("objectively the best" was thrown around) was a real turn off
         | for me.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | Hey if it worked for RedHat and Pottering it's gonna work for
           | Ubuntu.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | They did a macOS ripoff directly because Microsoft was
           | threatening to sue everyone doing Win95 ripoffs: https://www.
           | theregister.com/2006/11/20/microsoft_claims_linu...
        
       | thibran wrote:
       | Canonical had at some point two variants of Unity, the regulate
       | one (slow) and a qml based one (super snappy). I'm still sad that
       | they did not stick with the qml version. GNOME nowerdays is fine,
       | but for years it was slow and lacking compared to what we already
       | had with qml Unity.
        
         | butokai wrote:
         | There's another comment below that mentions Unity 8, which has
         | been forked and is being maintained as a mobile shell. Is that
         | the same QML Unity you're mentioning? I remember they were
         | going for some kind of convergence.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | No.
           | 
           | The Qt-based Unity was called Unity2D.
           | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity2D
           | 
           | It was dropped when LLVMpipe rendering made OpenGL fast
           | enough to be usable on machines without 3D hardware:
           | 
           | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTE2MTQ
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | Some day i'll sit down and port unity to arch linux, but damn i
       | got too much stuff to do already..
        
         | lproven wrote:
         | It was done: https://github.com/chenxiaolong/Unity-for-Arch
         | 
         | I have not tried it, but Rudra Saraswat's new Unity-like
         | desktop, UnityX, is also available in an Arch version:
         | https://9to5linux.com/you-can-now-install-the-unityx-desktop...
        
           | Shadonototra wrote:
           | Yeap i saw that one, maybe that could be a good starting
           | point
           | 
           | As for UnityX, i don't think starting from scratch is wise
        
       | sph wrote:
       | "This new release doesn't come from Canonical: it's from Linux
       | wunderkind Rudra Saraswat", a 12 years old Linux enthusiast from
       | Bengaluru, India.
       | 
       | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/rs2009
       | 
       | Incredible stuff, love to see it.
        
         | fareesh wrote:
         | I am 12 and what is this
        
         | bmacho wrote:
         | I used Ubuntu Unity for a while when I realized, such a strange
         | feeling: yeah, I seeked for, downloaded, trusted, and I am very
         | satisfied with the work of a ~12 yo kid.
         | 
         | Also I can recommend Ubuntu Unity. It's not that different from
         | gnome, but works great.
        
         | lproven wrote:
         | [Article author here]
         | 
         | He does amazing work. I did a little profile piece on him a few
         | months ago:
         | https://www.theregister.com/2022/02/04/rudra_sarsawat_ubuntu...
        
           | signal11 wrote:
           | When you wrote wunderkind, I really didn't think you meant it
           | literally!
           | 
           | The work is interesting enough coming from _anyone_ , but
           | that little detail makes it more impressive.
        
             | lproven wrote:
             | I entirely agree.
             | 
             | His handle on the Ubuntu Discourse is rs2009.
             | 
             | I believe that this is because he was _born_ in 2009. When
             | Unity debuted, he was _2_.
             | 
             | As an Ubuntu user since 2004 and a Linux user since 1996, I
             | find it hard to express how ancient this makes me feel. :-/
             | 
             | But yes, he is a great kid, super smart, and I hope his
             | enthusiasm lasts and does not burn out.
        
           | delijati wrote:
           | i this you linked to the wrong unity8 ... unityx seams to be
           | something different ... https://lomiri.com/ is the renamed
           | unity8 that is used in the ubuntu touch phones now ubports
           | phones
        
             | lproven wrote:
             | [?]
             | 
             | I did not link to Unity8 at all in my article.
             | 
             | The article is about Rudra Saraswat, so I linked to Rudra's
             | project, UnityX. As far as I know, he isn't working on
             | Ubuntu Touch at all.
        
           | noobermin wrote:
           | This young fellow is why computing should be accessible
           | everywhere. How many more wunderkinds are we missing out on
           | and failing who may be wallowing in poverty or suffering
           | elsewhere in the world?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | possiblelion wrote:
         | Damn, what kid! To be fair - having time and access to computer
         | between the ages of 9-15 is something that I have come to
         | appreciate in my life as well. Even if I didn't understand
         | everything at the time, playing with open-source software,
         | Linux, jailbreaking iDevices etc has definitely formed who I am
         | today.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | Parallels with Blake Ross [0] and Arfa Karim [1] there.
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Ross#Mozilla_and_Firefox
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arfa_Karim
        
             | johndfsgdgdfg wrote:
             | I just read Arfa Karim's wiki page. It was so sad to read
             | such a talent passed away so soon :(
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | Interestingly - Canonical dumped Unity in 2017, Rudra would
         | have been 7 years old then.
        
       | tambourine_man wrote:
       | Any videos of UnityX in action? Couldn't find anything good
        
       | oldjavacoder wrote:
       | Unity was OK once the global menu was disabled. Today I use KDE.
       | It lets me configure it the way I want.
        
       | correct-opinion wrote:
       | I have tried and still use different DEs, but for some time now
       | Windows 10 DE is my favourite one. I think all others should just
       | copy it, no need to reinvent the wheel.
        
         | hu3 wrote:
         | Compared to Windows 10, the Windows 11 DE is such a regression
         | imo.
        
         | diffeomorphism wrote:
         | Anything specifically you like about it? Tiling seems really
         | limited, virtual desktops could still need more work, the
         | search I have basically given up on (though "everything" is a
         | kinda nice app for part of that), volume mixer widget is also
         | very limited (e.g. see ear trumpet as an alternative), file
         | manager still does not have tabs, network settings are
         | convoluted (manual eduroam setup anyone?),...
         | 
         | Honestly, whenever I use windows it feels "okay" but I could
         | not point at anything to say "oh, neat".
        
       | htkibar wrote:
       | I remember quitting Ubuntu because they dropped unity - hah.
        
       | littlecranky67 wrote:
       | To provide some historic context: Unity was released in times
       | when there was this "Netbook" trend, started by Asus EeePC with
       | 7" display, followed by a lot of other cheap Netbooks in the
       | 7"-10" display category. Additionally, Canonical pushed to become
       | a mobile/smartphone OS vendor. These constrained display sizes
       | were some of the main factors in the UX design of Unity. Fast
       | forward to today, Netbooks were a short-lived hype to be replaced
       | with Ultrabooks (13" and up), and Canonical failed to become a
       | mobile phone OS vendor and went back to Gnome as a default DE.
        
         | okasaki wrote:
         | Should be noted that compared to Unity, GNOME 3 is an even more
         | extreme variant of the phone/netbook UI.
        
           | jdub wrote:
           | That was never the objective, nor the result. It's just an
           | ill-informed meme.
        
             | okasaki wrote:
             | I don't know which idea is worse,
             | 
             | (1) that they forced desktop users on a phone UI
             | intentionally
             | 
             | (2) or that they weren't trying to make a phone UI but
             | somehow ended up with the gross garbage that is GNOME 3+
             | anyway.
             | 
             | Either way GNOME 3+ stinks.
             | 
             | Even the GNOME developers had to concede and offer the
             | alternative GNOME flashback
             | (https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeFlashback), which
             | looks like GNOME 2 (but not customizable). Given how
             | intransigent they are usually, the push-back must have been
             | enormous.
        
               | addicted wrote:
               | Lol, because Linux users are the biggest whiners on the
               | planet.
               | 
               | Almost no one appreciated Unity when it was around.
               | 
               | All this nostalgia for it is just that.
               | 
               | If Ubuntu switched to Unity tomorrow people would just
               | start whining like mad about it.
               | 
               | I bet Gnome Fladhback doesn't even get 1% of the usage of
               | actual Gnome.
        
               | okasaki wrote:
               | Unity wasn't appreciated because it wasn't better than
               | what it was replacing (GNOME 2). Though at least it had a
               | sort of window list you could use to quickly switch
               | windows with a mouse. You know - the device people use on
               | desktop PCs.
               | 
               | Nothing to do with whiners. Although I'm sure the world
               | feels like it's full of whiners if you work on UIs at Red
               | Hat. As is often the case though, that feeling is more a
               | reflection of your situation than objective reality.
        
               | philliphaydon wrote:
               | I was using Ubuntu but when Unity got dropped I went back
               | to Windows... Now I'm on Fedora 36 with KDE, and :'( my
               | new work laptop has to be Windows :'( so sad.
        
               | ehvatum wrote:
               | > Lol, because Linux users are the biggest whiners on the
               | planet.
               | 
               | Gnome is even more of a loser on FreeBSD.
        
           | thriftwy wrote:
           | I'm wondering why more people are not using KDE. It is a
           | honest desktop environment which does not try to pretend
           | phone/netbook or parrot Mac OS X.
           | 
           | Many of KDE apps are the best in a given category. Konsole
           | certainly is.
        
             | noisy_boy wrote:
             | I used Gnome for a very long time, switched to KDE and
             | switched back. Recently I decided to retry KDE after
             | hearing good things about Plasma, and I can say that it
             | wasn't hyperbole. The desktop feels light and snappy, the
             | settings have been cleaned up and organized while retaining
             | the flexibility/configurability. It may not be as "clean"
             | as Gnome out of the box, but it can be customized a whole
             | lot more to how you want your desktop to be.
        
             | Yizahi wrote:
             | Not many distros ship KDE as a main and first class DE. On
             | the ones which allows KDE during install (meaning it was at
             | least somehow tested, probably), in my anecdotal experience
             | KDE 5 often run horribly with severe visual bugs. AND then
             | community says this "why did you pick distroname+KDE, it is
             | cutting edge, go pick Mate/Gnome/Cinnamon/XFCE". And both
             | of these things together are rather frustrating.
        
             | Lio wrote:
             | I think I'm in a minority here but I prefer Gnome to KDE
             | because it feels like it takes more inspiration from macOS
             | than from Windows.
             | 
             | Different strokes for different folks but I don't enjoy the
             | OS/2, Windows, KDE way of doing things.
             | 
             | I'm thankful we have choices.
        
               | herbst wrote:
               | I am in the same boat. Windows 95 like desktops are
               | simply not the most optimal way to work anymore.
               | 
               | The reason I like gnome most is because it is so out of
               | the way. I am enjoying maximal screen estate while
               | switching apps is just as easy as it is supposed to be.
               | 
               | When gnome shell was new some things were buggy,
               | especially on low power machines, but that changed really
               | quick. I can't think of a single issue.
        
             | CoastalCoder wrote:
             | I use some KDE apps (Konsole, Kdiff3, etc.) even when using
             | a non-KDE desktop such as Pop Shell or Cinnamon.
             | 
             | At least on Debian-based distros, those KDE apps just
             | require a lot of additional packages.
        
             | worble wrote:
             | I'm basically on KDE for one reason, and that reason is
             | dolphin. No other file manager even comes close in my
             | opinion.
        
             | bitcharmer wrote:
             | > Many of KDE apps are the best in a given category.
             | Konsole certainly is.
             | 
             | Have you tried Terminator?
        
               | thriftwy wrote:
               | No, but
               | 
               | > Terminator on Mac OS X showing live search highlighting
               | and UTF-8
               | 
               | Looks like something working around deficiences in Mac OS
               | X's terminal app which just aren't there in modern X11
               | terms.
               | 
               | Judging from its feature highlights, the only one I did
               | not see in Konsole is horizontal scrolling.
        
           | Mikeb85 wrote:
           | Considering how keyboard-driven Gnome Shell is this is a
           | terrible take...
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | There is also Ubuntu Touch for tablets etc., which was started
         | by Canonical, but then dropped because of lack of interest.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Touch
        
         | forgotpwd16 wrote:
         | That Canonical designed Unity to be convergent (functional to
         | both mobile and desktop) doesn't mean it wasn't a superb
         | desktop environment.
        
         | brnt wrote:
         | The make or break moment for Unity was Canonicals failed crowd-
         | source campaign for their phone. Work on Unity 8 was underway
         | and would have succeeded Unity 7, and would have been the DE
         | for both their phone and desktop.
         | 
         | With the end of the campaign, it seems like all their desktop
         | efforts ended too, and they shifted focus to servers, snap,
         | snap-stores.
        
           | bregma wrote:
           | This is nowhere near the historical truth. The Ubuntu Edge
           | (2013) had no effect on the Unity project or on the OS
           | convergence project. Those were cancelled several years
           | (2017) after the Ubuntu Edge as a result of a business
           | decision to make the company more profitable for investors.
           | There is zero money in desktop, and Canonical continues
           | supporting Ubuntu only as enabling technology for their
           | server and IoT product lines.
        
             | asoneth wrote:
             | > The Ubuntu Edge (2013) had no effect on the Unity project
             | or on the OS convergence project.
             | 
             | The failure of Ubuntu Edge to meet its lofty ($32M)
             | crowdfunding target did not immediately result in Canonical
             | abandoning their convergence aspirations. But it was part
             | of a broader trend of failed attempts to monetize mobile
             | and desktop users. Had more those attempts been
             | sufficiently successful I doubt they would have abandoned
             | OS convergence.
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | Nowhere near you say? Mir and Unity 8 dev were put on the
             | back burner not long after the Edge campaign. Remeber that
             | no release with them was ever made. Formally terminating
             | dev work a few years later seems to fit in very well: there
             | suddenly was no need for Mir, and the shift in focus to the
             | server fits well with dropping a custom DE.
        
       | ttctciyf wrote:
       | IMO, the lasting stability of a UI is a far greater factor in
       | long-term user acceptance, satisfaction and facility than almost
       | any breaking "improvements" that are imposed by developers - c.f.
       | Firefox for a negative example.
       | 
       | So, if you want to (re-)introduce a new desktop paradigm, give
       | users a simple mechanism to choose to disagree.
        
         | a1369209993 wrote:
         | > any breaking "improvements" that are imposed by developers -
         | c.f. Firefox for a negative example.
         | 
         | Huh? Firefox hasn't released any improvements since 3.6 about a
         | decade ago; I'm pretty sure they're dead.
        
       | shapefrog wrote:
       | Must have come back for the Year of Linux
        
       | heurisko wrote:
       | I loved/love Unity and kept on installing it on my desktops. It's
       | now running on 22.04.
       | 
       | Don't see why it needs to be changed. There are so many parts
       | that feel a lot of thought has been spent on them.
        
       | KronisLV wrote:
       | Unity just felt consistent, usable and boring - all qualities
       | that I appreciate in a desktop environment, which is why some of
       | my devices still use XFCE and there's almost nothing that I find
       | lacking in that regard.
       | 
       | Now, GNOME isn't necessarily bad either but it was still sad that
       | Canonical moved on from developing Unity because it did set
       | Ubuntu apart and by the time of the official migration away from
       | it, was actually pretty stable and solid.
       | 
       | Of course, the financial aspects of developing their own DE when
       | they could just be contributing to GNOME instead also need to be
       | taken into consideration.
        
         | bmacho wrote:
         | > boring
         | 
         | I always found it neat, especially with the ubuntu colors and
         | fonts. Aesthetically stimulating, really.
        
         | akagusu wrote:
         | As a company it made sense to develop their own desktop
         | experience instead of relying on the default experience
         | provided by Gnome, since the majority of developers in control
         | of Gnome are Redhat employee or ex-employee or affiliated to
         | Redhat in some way, and Redhat is their main competitor.
        
         | simion314 wrote:
         | I remember that at one point Canonical had done real user
         | testing, bringing people to use stuff and watching them
         | struggling. Big difference vs the other DE that they use now
         | where some big ego dude instinct determines what is removed or
         | changed for the sake of brand identity or futuristic design.
        
           | kkfx wrote:
           | Probably you refer to the "forced" passage to Unity-Qt, who
           | was not mature at that time, witch means buggy and laggy.
           | 
           | BUT such move was not bad, was needed because too much people
           | do not want to evolve, keeping on menus-based systems who
           | start to age, without this move GNU/Linux would probably lost
           | many new users who want modern desktops...
           | 
           | Unfortunately modern desktops are still crappy floating WM
           | with a completely lost design underneath but that's another
           | story...
        
           | red_admiral wrote:
           | Was that user testing on new users, or experienced ones?
           | There's a big difference between how to make the onboarding
           | as easy as possible for someone who's never used your system
           | before, vs making it efficient to use for power users. The
           | former gets you Ribbon UI and similar - which is really
           | really good at that - but it means that people like me get
           | annoyed when something they have to do 50 times a day now
           | takes 3 clicks instead of one. I can understand that I'm on
           | the losing end of a tradeoff that's a global improvement, but
           | I still get annoyed.
           | 
           | When you're building bazaars and not cathedrals though,
           | there's no good reason why everyone should be using the same
           | UI. Maybe I'm part of a 5% or less of the population who
           | wants the title bar of the active window and only that to be
           | my accent color, but the solution here is to just let me
           | configure that. And I don't mean in the sense of "I can spend
           | a summer learning and editing the source code and build a
           | custom distro that looks the way I want", I mean that I
           | remember the old days where this was either a switch, or the
           | default, or a couple of lines in a config file. I gave up on
           | GNOME when everything became "sure, you can do a term project
           | on configuring the CSS files" if you really don't like THE
           | ONE true design choice.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | Unity had a lot of features for power users as well (good
             | default shortcuts for ex.) and the global menu was a
             | godsend on smaller screens.
             | 
             | So I wouldn't say it's really an either-or scenario, just
             | that tastes differ.
        
             | simion314 wrote:
             | I think there wee people that used computers before, user
             | testing will usually identify situation you describe where
             | doing a task takes too many clicks.
             | 
             | My issue is with big ego people, they use the excuse of
             | casual user to impose their views, I have a KDE example too
             | (so GNOME users can stop downvoting this without any
             | comment explaining why) , on KDE4 the big ego dude added a
             | thing in the corner, "the cashew". the users asked for an
             | option to hide the ugly thing but the dude refused to add
             | an option, he refused patches,.
             | 
             | Now some people will say that we the users do not
             | understand that adding options is adding complexity but
             | this is not the case here and in the end KDE removed it
             | https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/10/kde-kills-desktop-
             | toolbo... probably after the big ego dude left. This is not
             | the only KDE example, t was the same with scrolling on some
             | widgets, options to disable it was refused by same dude. No
             | user testing, no group of people thinking about it, just
             | one big ego person thinking that because he read half of a
             | book he is a big visionary.
        
         | reidrac wrote:
         | If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared rejection
         | from a number of users (I don't know if that was large group or
         | just very noisy), and an approach to _community management_
         | that was basically _if you don 't like, go away_.
         | 
         | In the early days, Unity was more usable than GNOME (could be
         | my hardware, perhaps; apparently my nvidia drivers were buggy
         | and I was told to change GPU), but back then Mark Shuttleworth
         | wasn't the best PR person always starting flames on his blog.
         | 
         | At the end I got tired of the almost constant drama and gave up
         | the _new desktop_ trend and settled on XFCE (and I couldn 't be
         | happier).
        
           | kkfx wrote:
           | You memory is correct and incorrect at the same time: early
           | Unity was rejected by many because too much rigid (like you
           | can't move the launcher bar or the top bar) and "too alien"
           | because at that time people was thinking in category-based
           | menus not dashes and fear to loose the "overview ability" of
           | menus. Than Unity mature a bit and such criticism disappear.
           | 
           | In the end most power users at that time already have
           | switched to side docks observing that they fit better modern
           | 16:10 and then 16:9 screens instead of the old 4:3. Also
           | Android at that time offer a substantially identical
           | graphical concept with a dash-like menu, a fixed launcher bar
           | on the shortest side of the screen witch happen to be the
           | bottom one on mobile, have a small fixed top bar etc.
           | 
           | Unity offer _innovation_ and after much reticence people
           | embrace it without even notice. Windows have copied Kde4
           | menus, most have copied Android and Unity desktop.
           | 
           | Gnome criticism are a far older things about absurdity like
           | nautilus spatial view the RH management want against nobody,
           | the new rush was for GTk3 and the choice of going web-tech,
           | against vala crap etc after with Gnome SHell criticism add to
           | criticisms because Gnome SHell essentially copy Unity look &
           | feel suffering from a secondary narcissistic design that put
           | the desktop at the center of the world instead as a silent
           | servant who appear only when needed.
           | 
           | At a certain point Canonical decide that people are too
           | reactionary and so there is no interest in innovate desktop
           | anymore, it's time to make money and they loose much on the
           | mobile finally find a room in IoT and server support.
           | 
           | Nowadays desktops are left at that evolution point, with no
           | further advancing for generic users, while power users have
           | rediscovered past ideas like tiling WM and document-centric
           | UIs. Generic users desktop is pushed to be a modern WebVM
           | improperly named browser for legacy reasons, power users goes
           | deep in the classic glorious and far more advanced past than
           | today dark middle age of tech. Surely some choose XFCE,
           | Fluxbox etc simply because they are born with such WM concept
           | in the '90s/early '00 and do not want to move from that era,
           | as many still want '60s cars instead of something else more
           | older or more modern :-)
        
           | simion314 wrote:
           | >If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared rejection
           | from a number of users
           | 
           | Of course GNOME fanboys complained that someone dared to
           | replace their precious DE with a nicer Qt based one instead
           | of kissing the ass of giant ego GNOME designers. Even when
           | Ubuntu got back to GNOME Canonical listen to the users and
           | put features back in on Ubuntu.
        
             | ginko wrote:
             | Actually, I think most Gnome 2 refugees eventually settles
             | with XFCE or Mate. I did at least.
             | 
             | ..wonder what I'll do after the Gnome team kills XFCE by
             | enforcing Wayland for GTK.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | I am not sure if most, but there were a lot of happy
               | Unity users , but the DE got of lot of hate , much more
               | hate then other GNOME forks or alternatives, Probably
               | Ubuntu/Canonical haters just found another project to
               | attack and seen it as Canonical inventing something new
               | instead of letting RedHat inventing shit and kissing TH
               | ass and follow them.
        
               | reidrac wrote:
               | I profoundly dislike all that "hater" rhetoric. Sure,
               | there will always be trolls, but by tagging any
               | dissenting opinion as "Ubuntu/Canonical haters" I feel
               | like there's a lost opportunity to improve.
               | 
               | You can't please everybody, but both Unity an GNOME shell
               | had some very bad ideas, and it took too long to correct
               | course (and in some cases it didn't happen). I believe
               | some of the criticism came from people that really loved
               | those DE, and that's why they were passionate about it.
               | 
               | When people don't care, they just use something else.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | Come one, Arch users complaining that Ubuntu was not
               | using SystemD was not honest, the Arch users were not
               | using Ubuntu or Upstart to have a clue what they are
               | talking about. And related with SystemD debate, you have
               | alot of people that are not system admins or can't write
               | a C program or a good bash scrip[t having an opinion
               | because they read a blog post , I wish we all can't
               | determine when we have no idea and just abstain. So about
               | SystemD , I have no idea if is better or worse, my
               | experience with init systems is almost zero so I should
               | shut up.
               | 
               | There were a lot of hather, sure there were some valid
               | criticism but you can't invalidate the fact they were
               | haters, and if we would want to waste our time we could
               | read those old topics and find them but we have better
               | things to do.
        
               | CoastalCoder wrote:
               | I really disliked Unity, and hated the fact that
               | Canonical was pushing it down my throat.
               | 
               | IIRC I used Mate as a temporary solution, and happily
               | jumped to Cinnamon when it came out.
               | 
               | Nowadays I use Pop Shell because (at least when I
               | switched) it seemed to offer better widgets for
               | controlling audio, etc. on my System76 machine.
        
               | simion314 wrote:
               | >I really disliked Unity, and hated the fact that
               | Canonical was pushing it down my throat.
               | 
               | But we KDE users should we hate Canonical that they were
               | pushing GNOME? I did not hated them for this though I am
               | puzzled why not create Unity based on KDE libraries
               | (probably there were many reasons some including Qt and
               | C++ are ugly)
        
           | threatripper wrote:
           | > If I recall correctly, both GNOME and Unity shared
           | rejection from a number of users (I don't know if that was
           | large group or just very noisy)
           | 
           | The GNOME redesign. The old 2D GNOME was OK. It was
           | functional, stable and pretty (for someone who thinks that
           | Windows 3.11 style is a good fit for a work environment).
           | Then the old software was abandoned and the update was pushed
           | onto users.
           | 
           | KDE also had a transition disaster. That time was not a good
           | time for Linux on the Desktop.
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | Has there ever been a good time for Linux on the desktop?
             | I'm using Linux (Kubuntu) daily, and it works most of the
             | time, but I still see some issues from time to time (multi-
             | monitor strangeness, windows suddenly appearing without
             | frames because kwin crashed, desktop wallpapers not being
             | shown or being shown incorrectly etc.).
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Yes for someone like yourself who is comfortable with a
               | computer from 2003-2022.
               | 
               | The challenge is that Linux isn't a singular product its
               | a source compatible ecosystem of parts. There has always
               | existed a collection of excellent parts one could use to
               | make an excellent experience. However as a user you
               | probably don't want to build your own distro so you are
               | going to be relying on someone else's collection and
               | projects come and go and differ substantially in quality
               | both between projects and over time.
               | 
               | For instance Ubuntu has basically from my perspective
               | gone to hell.
        
               | noisy_boy wrote:
               | I would have disagreed with you except atleast once a day
               | (usually more), my monitors go blank and once the display
               | is back after few seconds, all the windows get shoved to
               | the smaller monitor on the right, all resized to the
               | monitor size. I move the windows again one by one to the
               | main monitor, resize them to how they were and curse
               | NVIDIA while praying that this doesn't happen again too
               | soon. Even changed from Pop! desktop to KDE which didn't
               | help (that's why my unsubstantiated choice is to curse
               | NVIDIA instead of the DE). Cherry on top if I'm connected
               | to the work machine over Citrix so I have some more
               | windows to resize and reposition over there too.
               | 
               | Close to two decades of using Linux desktop on a daily
               | basis and I still have to deal with these issues. As
               | someone who doesn't have any intention to leave Linux due
               | to these issues, I don't think there EVER will be a 100%
               | rock-solid time for Linux desktop. Wayland will stabilize
               | and then people will point out issues with it, come-up
               | with another component and we will wait for that to
               | stabilize - and on and on, forever.
               | 
               | Ironically, such issues rarely happened, if ever, when I
               | was using Ubuntu Dapper Drake.
        
               | kkfx wrote:
               | I see this happening on few low-end machines (Intel core
               | i3 integrated graphics and Celeron integrated one), not
               | know the cause though...
        
               | noisy_boy wrote:
               | I have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme Gen 2 with i7 processor and
               | NVIDIA Max-Q graphics so I think the issues common on
               | low-end machines are unlikely to apply in this case.
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | >my monitors go blank and once the display is back after
               | few seconds,
               | 
               | Are you sure you aren't having power issues? I had
               | similar problems I think I fixed with randr, but a UPS
               | for your monitors might be a better choice. Never daily
               | though, more storm based or once every few months.
        
               | noisy_boy wrote:
               | That is an interesting point - though no other devices
               | are affected so it is unlikely that this is related to
               | power.
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | I'm only sharing my experience, but the reason I figured
               | out it was a power thing was in the summer my AC would
               | stop for a second too. I never noticed any problems with
               | anything else in the winter.
        
               | majewsky wrote:
               | Isn't that just how all desktop OSes are? It works most
               | of the time, and then sometimes you run into things that
               | are bafflingly broken.
               | 
               | For me, it's the Windows desktop at work. I'm accustomed
               | to Windows spawning windows fully or partially out of
               | bounds, though at least that's something that you can fix
               | with the "Move" option from the Ctrl+Space menu. But for
               | a few weeks now, there seems to be a bug where the
               | affected window just stops being rendered entirely. It's
               | in the taskbar, I can start Ctrl+Space "Move" and see the
               | movement cursor, but there's nothing there. I don't know
               | what triggers it yet.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, my Linux desktop has no problems at all.
        
               | noisy_boy wrote:
               | Having made a sibling comment lamenting issues with my
               | Linux desktop, I have to sort of agree with you. Sort of
               | because, I have seen issues like what you mentioned on
               | Windows in the past, but not that often. I use Linux
               | desktop not only on principle but also because of open
               | source and the flexibility is unparalleled, but I do feel
               | like things break more often than they do on Windows
               | (maybe due to the amount of flexibility and therefore the
               | use cases/scenarios it has to deal with).
               | 
               | Having said that, Pop!_OS was also problem free for me
               | for quite a while until the desktop blanking issue
               | started happening - right at the time of NVIDIA driver
               | upgrade. Linus was right shitting on them - my next
               | laptop would not be using NVIDIA for sure.
        
               | christophilus wrote:
               | Yes. I had easily as many issues with Windows and OSX
               | when each was my d at driver. I don't really have
               | anything bad to say about Fedora + Gnome except that
               | occasionally, my 5k thunderbolt monitor is finicky when
               | waking from sleep. It's a simple enough fix, but it's
               | still a minor inconvenience maybe once a month.
               | 
               | Linux package management alone puts it ahead of both
               | Windows and OSX in my book.
        
             | michaelmrose wrote:
             | The biggest deal was that you couldn't have old and new and
             | many distros with a rapid release cycle adopted new
             | versions as soon as they became available.
             | 
             | For instance KDE 4.0 which wasn't really ready came out 11
             | January 2008. Fedora 9 came out in May.
             | 
             | Had simply choosing 3 or 4 beta as it might accurately have
             | been called been possible at login I think there would have
             | been zero issues. 4.0 wasn't actively broken but it lacked
             | polish and it was missing features from 3.x that hasn't
             | been implemented yet.
        
             | dm319 wrote:
             | That period I stopped recommending linux to friends as I
             | felt burned by the experience of losing gnome 2. I remember
             | going from ubuntu 10.04 beyond support, to xfce, gnome
             | fallback, gnome flashback, linux mint cinnamon, crunchbang
             | (stayed a while), linux mint mate then ubuntuMate, where
             | I've been for several years now.
             | 
             | I'd say UbuntuMATE is functional, boring and pretty, and
             | frankly should be the modern standard for a work
             | environment linux.
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | I much prefer modern GNOME and KDE to their older
             | counterparts. I believe modern DEs definitely lack a
             | certain polish, but the old, clunky late-00s UI is
             | incredibly unappealing.
             | 
             | I can see why existing Linux users may have resisted the
             | change but I wouldn't have even tried Ubuntu long enoughto
             | switch to Linux had they stuck with the old system.
             | 
             | Windows 3.11 is a terrible fit for productivity,
             | Win95/98/2000 were immensely better. The Windows usability
             | only improved until mscursed themselves with Windows 8
             | (with the exception of Vista which was released before it
             | was done and was almost as buggy as modern Linux, though
             | SP1 fixed most of that).
        
             | pxc wrote:
             | > KDE also had a transition disaster. That time was not a
             | good time for Linux on the Desktop.
             | 
             | KDE's transition disaster came a bit earlier, with the
             | release of KDE 4.0 in 2008. By the time GNOME 3 came out in
             | 2011, KDE 4.x had seen 6 or 7 feature releases, and had
             | (imo) largely recovered from all the rewrites in terms of
             | feature parity. I was pretty happy on KDE in 2011.
        
           | Twirrim wrote:
           | I didn't hate Unity, but it had a bug (for me, and clearly a
           | bunch of others based on the launchpad bug traffic for the
           | bug I filed) that persisted for the entire time Canonical
           | owned it, that meant I couldn't use it.
           | 
           | I could repeat it very easily, just start the application
           | using alt+f2 and use the keyboard to launch it (terminal,
           | chrome, whatever). When triggered a window wouldn't be
           | accessible over alt-tab. Was running, couldn't alt-tab to it.
           | As someone that uses the keyboard a lot for navigation, it
           | was a show-stopper. I have to be able to alt-tab between
           | windows.
           | 
           | Eventually filed in 2012,
           | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/951929
           | "Fix Released" but you know, still people reporting it later
           | on in 16.04
           | 
           | In fact, even now, the number of "confirmed" bugs with long
           | life on them on Launchpad is particularly disturbing,
           | considering how many of them are fairly fundamentally
           | impacting.
           | 
           | Like, say, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1126221.
           | Filed 2013 _by an at-the-time Canonical employee_ , confirmed
           | in 14.xx and then 16.xx. If you had multiple displays, put a
           | window on one and then disabled it, windows on the other
           | screen get essentially stuck, can't be alt+tab'd to or
           | anything.
           | 
           | Or
           | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1619563,
           | hey I know, let's have two actions be on alt+tab. Switch
           | windows, and close window! What could go wrong...
           | 
           | or
           | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/49579,
           | reported _2006_ , still reported 16 years later. If you have
           | menus like the Application open, the timed screen lock won't
           | kick in.
           | 
           | Over and over and over, what could have been a really good
           | desktop experience was crippled by stubbornly ignoring the
           | bugs filed against it (at least, I assume ignoring because
           | the number of times engineers would actually comment on the
           | tickets seemed to be few and far between). Canonical
           | repeatedly shot themselves in the foot by not nailing the
           | basics: the environment has to work.
        
       | waingake wrote:
       | The amount of hate Unity would get on this website... Hackers
       | gonna hate it seems. It's a shame that Canonical listened.
       | 
       | On a positive note I'm very impressed that the reboot is being
       | lead by a such a young developer. Thank you!
        
       | heurisko wrote:
       | Does this require a PPA? As the Unity version in the main
       | repositories is still 5.5.
       | 
       | https://packages.ubuntu.com/jammy/unity
        
       | nothatscool wrote:
       | Unity's global menu system was wonderful and once getting used to
       | how well it used vertical space switching to gnome was like going
       | back 10 years. Seeing multiple empty bars across the screen makes
       | it completely unusable to me not to mention their need to replace
       | simple menus with seemingly random icons scattered everywhere.
       | I'm using kde plasma now with a global menu set up. It's good but
       | isn't as hassle free as Unity was.
       | 
       | I'm really sad that canonical abandoned Unity. It was so easy to
       | use and was really easy to recommend to people. I think it was a
       | case of an extremely loud minority who weren't even using it that
       | contributed to canonical abandoning it.
        
         | kijin wrote:
         | I wasn't a fan of Unity when Canonical was pushing it, but I
         | totally agree that it was better than the GNOME Shell version
         | we're left with nowadays.
         | 
         | On the other hand, that impression might be because the default
         | GNOME apps back then had much more usable menus packed with
         | features. Now it doesn't really matter whether your menu bar is
         | global or not, because all those menu items are being killed
         | anyway. Otherwise the multiple empty bars you see wouldn't have
         | been as empty as they are.
        
         | longstation wrote:
         | I am same there (using KDE Plasma with global menu). Recently,
         | with VSCode's menu on title bar, it seems to have started a
         | trend doing so. For example, JetBrain's IDEs are also designed
         | that way. I found the term for that, it's called LIM (locally
         | integrated menu). Now, Unity has done that many years ago. If I
         | remember correctly, the behavior was: when maximized, it
         | behaves like a global menu; when not, it's a LIM.
         | 
         | Fortunately, there's a PR for implementing such things in KDE
         | Plasma. Here is the discussion [1]. Right now, you can use it,
         | but it probably won't be merged into the main branch soon.
         | 
         | PR: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/breeze/-/merge_requests/126
         | 
         | There's also a KDE theme the PR draws inspiration on (which you
         | can use for KDE now): https://github.com/Zren/material-
         | decoration
        
           | mikewhy wrote:
           | This seems like a weird half-step between "headerbars" /
           | client side decorations / hamburger menus. KDE Maui is going
           | that direction: https://mauikit.org/apps/
           | 
           | Sadly it just seems to be more like a custom window
           | decoration that only does shadows (no actual title bar) and
           | regular KDE headers, no actual window controls / CSD.
        
         | BirAdam wrote:
         | I felt much the same way. The global menu also fixed the issue
         | of people shoving menus into hamburgers that I hate. Unity
         | additionally had their search feature that doubled as a run box
         | which was awesome. Tap meta and type the application name and
         | hit enter. Unity really maximalized productivity in my opinion.
         | It's a shame that Canoncial abandoned it, but being open source
         | the community seems to have quietly continued.
         | 
         | Ultimately, I think Canonical just slowly realized that home
         | users are going to cost money for everyone but Apple, while
         | servers will make money. They shifted nearly all of their focus
         | there and just package the same things everyone else does for
         | desktop. Sadly, the one non-standard thing that they continue
         | insisting on is Snap.
        
           | losingom wrote:
           | >Sadly, the one non-standard thing that they continue
           | insisting on is Snap.
           | 
           | Snap was and largely is mainly for the server crowd, that
           | they've shoved into the desktop. So in that regard I suppose
           | it's at least consistent for them. That said, snap is still
           | terrible, but Canonical always just does their own thing.
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Docker won the server market years ago; Snap has no chance
             | there.
        
           | Mikeb85 wrote:
           | > Unity additionally had their search feature that doubled as
           | a run box which was awesome. Tap meta and type the
           | application name and hit enter.
           | 
           | Gnome Shell does the same thing...
        
             | noisem4ker wrote:
             | ...as does KDE Plasma with Krunner:
             | https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Krunner
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | > I think it was a case of an extremely loud minority who
         | weren't even using it
         | 
         | Well, yes, but "an extremely loud minority who weren't even
         | using it" can have an important point about something: namely,
         | that investing/focusing on polishing it, detracts from
         | investment/focus on polish of the alternative they prefer.
         | 
         | Ubuntu GNOME was always a spin of Ubuntu; but when it became
         | the _flagship_ spin of Ubuntu, the polish on it got a lot
         | better. (For example, previously, effort on an  "app
         | store"-experience application was divided between Canonical's
         | "Ubuntu Software Center", and GNOME's "GNOME Software", with
         | both being pretty janky as a result; with the switch, the
         | "Ubuntu Software Center" was discontinued, and all effort of
         | both parties went into polishing GNOME Software, and it became
         | something worth using.)
        
         | Veliladon wrote:
         | From the article:
         | 
         | > As a small example, the update makes right-clicking the
         | trashcan in the Launcher to empty it work again, without
         | needing to open the trashcan's own window.
         | 
         | I feel like that single line illustrates just how badly GNOME
         | has lost the plot over the last decade.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | AFAIK GNOME doesn't really do desktop icons and the ones
           | Ubuntu added were actually a GNOME extension. Ubuntu chose to
           | bundle that extension so the burden on creating a unified
           | experience should be on them.
        
             | Veliladon wrote:
             | > AFAIK GNOME doesn't really do desktop icons
             | 
             | So the GNOME people are taking their inspiration from
             | Windows 3.x?
        
               | jeroenhd wrote:
               | Windows 3.11 docked applications onto the "desktop" when
               | you minimized them so no, not really.
               | 
               | It's not really taking inspiration as much as trying new
               | things. Everyone has copied over the desktop because
               | everybody else did so, all the way back to when Apple
               | first ripped off Xerox's GUI. Even on Windows I disable
               | all the clutter of desktop icons that programs will
               | randomly add to my desktop because they deem themselves
               | important.
               | 
               | I personally don't see the benefit, but people who do can
               | pick a distro that writes a well-integrated desktop icon
               | addon (apparently, not Ubuntu).
        
               | diffeomorphism wrote:
               | Apparently so does every recent OS, e.g. Windows, Mac,
               | ios, Android,.... . They all feature an app
               | drawer/launcher/start menu quite prominently and that is
               | always _not_ the desktop.
               | 
               | Having one window of the files app always open, removing
               | all window decorations and calling it "desktop" can be
               | good, but I won't pretend that there isn't an overarching
               | movement away from that.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | I'm using Ubuntu 20.04. Right clicking the thrash can icon
           | works as intended.
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | When Ubuntu moved to Gnome I remember getting so frustrated at
         | how much screen space Gnome wasted that my old laptop became
         | difficult to use. I gave up on the Linux desktop after that
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | This is very unlikely to get you back on board, but a tiling
           | window manager like i3 gives you all the freedom and space
           | you could possibly want.
        
           | washadjeffmad wrote:
           | I remember a lot of the same sentiment about GNOME 3, but if
           | you recall, were you aware of WMs or other DEs at the time?
           | 
           | There was a short lag between when 2.32 was deprecated and
           | when Mate and Cinnamon were released, and I remember XFCE and
           | KDE still being pretty excellent. I used tiling WMs on my
           | other TTYs so changing the defaults didn't affect me.
        
         | hvis wrote:
         | Unity was a great project, but not all is lost.
         | 
         | I've been using this GNOME extension for years, and it's been
         | very solid: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/1287/unite/
         | 
         | It emulates Unity quite well (removing the titlebars on
         | maximized windows, among other things).
        
       | cosmiccatnap wrote:
       | I have never understood unity.
       | 
       | For all it's faults and annoyances I have never once considered
       | gnome, kde, or even cinnamon inferior to unity.
       | 
       | People talk about it's consistancy in the comment section but as
       | someone who has had to use different DE varients over the years,
       | any features unity had a claim to fame for were implemented and
       | then superseded by gnome a long time ago.
        
       | forgotpwd16 wrote:
       | Back from the dead _as fork_. The power of free software.
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | Some things ought to be left buried lest they come and haunt you
       | for years to come.
        
       | hatsunearu wrote:
       | Good. Unity was the best desktop environment on Linux by a long
       | shot.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | The best feature from Unity was just tapping alt and easily
       | finding the menu option on the app I was running. This helped a
       | lot with apps that had many or deep menu items like GIMP or
       | LibreOffice. The new policy, however, is for apps to drop menus.
       | I don't think a new incarnation without app developers embracing
       | it would have the same effect.
       | 
       | Also, for the sake of maintainability, it would be very good if
       | this was implemented using GNOME extensions.
        
       | silisili wrote:
       | That's exciting. I must be one of the few who actually liked
       | Unity a lot, probably better than Gnome. From what I understand,
       | a lot of the underlayment was 'hacky' and abandoned. While I
       | don't like most NIH that Canonical does(snaps, upstart, mir), I
       | really wish they'd have kept Unity.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Unity fan as well, nowadays I use XFCE on my surviving Linux
         | netbook.
        
         | cfn wrote:
         | You are not alone, Unity was my desktop until it was dropped by
         | Canonical. I ended up moving to Windows after that as I did not
         | like the replacement. The main thing I remember was that it was
         | quite fast and worked well with Vmware which is what I used to
         | host client's VMs. Maybe I will give it another go now.
        
           | zecg wrote:
           | It was always there, just apt install unity? It even asks you
           | which greeter to use and, unlike when Canonical was trying to
           | monetize it, you don't have to remove the adware "lenses"
           | such as Amazon.
        
           | addicted wrote:
           | Gnome was always faster than Unity. Which is not surprising
           | considering Unity was a bunch of hacks on top of Gnome.
        
             | ehvatum wrote:
             | > Unity was a bunch of hacks on top of Gnome
             | 
             | Where do you get this shit? Over 11 years ago, Shuttleworth
             | abandoned the vision of Unity as a shell for Gnome.
        
         | thecosmicfrog wrote:
         | Upstart predated systemd. I never understand the negativity
         | that surrounds it.
        
         | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
         | When Gnome2 was finally removed from Ubuntu, I tried Unity
         | desktop for a while, didn't like it and installed Gnome3...
         | 
         | ...
         | 
         | ...
         | 
         | ... and after an hour decided, that Unity is actually _not that
         | bad_. Almost every change Gnome3 did over Gnome2 was a change
         | for the worse or for _far worse_. Unnecessary waste of space on
         | meaningless panels, unnecessarily revamped menus, etc. Just no.
         | I didn 't dive in this matter in detail, but people were saying
         | that Gnome3 team has a rather hostile attitude towards
         | criticism, and it shows in the results.
         | 
         | Anyway, after a few years of using Unity I got used to it and
         | was sad when it was killed. Hope it gets the second chance.
        
           | dleslie wrote:
           | Gnome3 and Unity drove me to use MATE, and though I give KDE,
           | Gnome, and XFCE a shot every six months or so I still use
           | MATE.
           | 
           | AFAICT, for someone who prefers verbosity, purposeful display
           | usage and textual clarity over all else, it doesn't get much
           | better on the Linux desktop than MATE.
        
             | Nursie wrote:
             | How is MATE these days? I switched to Xfce when the Gnome 3
             | debacle hit, and after spending about 10 minutes arranging
             | things to look like Gnome 2, have never looked back.
        
               | dm319 wrote:
               | I've been using MATE for several years now. It's very
               | solid and they've improved and modernised it nicely since
               | gnome 2 times.
        
               | 2000UltraDeluxe wrote:
               | It's a nice Gnome 2 experience. If you're set up with
               | Xfce there's little reason to switch, but if you want to
               | go Gnome 3 -> Gnome 2 then MATE is the best option imo.
        
               | Nursie wrote:
               | I've just read the wikipedia page and was delighted to
               | find they have a fork of gedit which doesn't hide the
               | menus! That's now installed on my system.
        
           | herbst wrote:
           | If you didn't give gnome shell a second chance, maybe it's
           | time to do so. When it was released many defaults made gnome
           | 3 awkward to use, mostly wasting screen estate for huge icons
           | and so on.
           | 
           | Meanwhile it's all configureable and at least with Manjaro
           | also comes with sensible defaults that work well on a 28" as
           | well as a 15" notebook.
        
           | pndy wrote:
           | > Almost every change Gnome3 did over Gnome2 was a change for
           | the worse or for far worse.
           | 
           | At first it felt like they just went for change for a sake of
           | change so they could be unique among the DEs but now, it
           | seems the long-term goal wasn't just creating a combination
           | between desktop and mobile environment but aiming at being
           | the mobile environment first with optional support for
           | desktops.
           | 
           | And indeed, reading all experiences people had with devs
           | working around Gnome nowadays it seems they forgot they're an
           | open-source community and decided to play corporation card,
           | where it's totally fine to ignore the end-user and their
           | feedback.
        
             | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
             | > but aiming at being the mobile environment first
             | 
             | I'd say, being 'touch environment first', not mobile. And
             | it resulted in a very poor UX for mouse users, while touch
             | GNU/Linux computers never appeared (except androids, but
             | they have no use for gnome anyway).
        
               | dingi wrote:
               | GNOME has excellent support for keyboard based navigation
               | BTW. Almost anything can be done with the keyboard. Most
               | shell actions has a keyboard shortcut.
        
               | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
               | They could have done it without taking away convenient
               | menus. Previously all apps had standardized interface,
               | now everyone invents the bicycle for themselves.
        
             | addicted wrote:
             | Gnome's focus has been creating a desktop environment that
             | is consistent and easy to develop for. Which requires
             | minimal testing and is not exceedingly buggy.
             | 
             | Which is why Gnome is extremely popular across the
             | spectrum. With users, distros and developers.
             | 
             | Gnome makes Linux an OS that can compete with the likes of
             | Macos and Windows and actually best them.
        
           | rtpg wrote:
           | It might be worth trying gnome 3 again, and opening gnome
           | tweaks.
           | 
           | There's a couple size settings that makes stuff feel good. I
           | have moved onto KDE and honestly KDE is way less smart about
           | screen real estate (it makes up for it in functionality
           | fortunately)
        
             | nikodunk wrote:
             | Agreed - def worth trying again. Gnome 3.x was what -
             | Windows Vista era? I switched back to Gnome after the 4x
             | series was released a year or two ago. A bunch has changed
             | for the better.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > When Gnome2 was finally removed from Ubuntu, I tried Unity
           | desktop for a while, didn't like it and installed Gnome3...
           | 
           | Gnome 3 was never known as an improvement over Gnome 2. But
           | didn't Gnome 2 continue as MATE?
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_(software)
        
             | Nursie wrote:
             | It was picked up by an interested party and then attracted
             | a community, after the Gnome folks dropped Gnome 2 like a
             | hot coal when they announced Gnome 3 (no we're not
             | supporting it any more, it's deprecated, no, there's no way
             | to make 3 behave like 2, no, you can't have 2 and 3 on the
             | same box, that doesn't work).
             | 
             | So it continued after a short period of discontinuity,
             | during which time I think a lot of people moved to Xfce,
             | and Mint built their "Cinnamon" DE.
        
             | dm319 wrote:
             | There was a several year hiatus between end of gnome 2 and
             | beginning of mate, and even longer (a year or two) before
             | mate was solid. During this time I remember a lot of
             | attempts at gnome 2 replacement (fallback, flashback etc)
             | and people jumping ship to xfce. I spent a while on ubuntu
             | 10.04 LTS beyond security support then crunchbang before
             | hearing of the mate project, then moved to linux mint and
             | ubuntumate, which is where I've stayed. Those years were a
             | bit disrupted and I stopped recommending linux to friends
             | during that time.
        
         | vorticalbox wrote:
         | I was the same until I started using popos[0]
         | 
         | Based on gnome has tiling windows and very keyboard focused its
         | very nice.
         | 
         | 0 https://pop.system76.com
        
           | cowtools wrote:
           | I've recently installed this plugin on my own distro. It
           | sucks that default gnome can only tile 2 windows per monitor.
           | This plugin is great
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I still use Gnome metacity flashback because it wastes less
       | screen space and has a nice virtual workspace switcher.
       | 
       | I'm less happy with the configuration/tweak tools and the fact
       | that they are only accessible from within the account and the
       | display itself (not easy to administrate for different users). I
       | wish there was someone keeping a list of requirements so that
       | every new WM could avoid mistakes in the previous ones.
        
       | thepangolino wrote:
       | For me the killer feature of Unity is the HUD[0] allowing you to
       | simply type to find menu items. Save so much time going through
       | options it is incredible.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_WW-DHqR3c
        
         | akho wrote:
         | There was also plotinus (https://github.com/p-e-w/plotinus) for
         | a sort-of-similar thing. I think it still works, but I use too
         | few gui applications to bother.
        
         | lproven wrote:
         | I find it interesting because as a long-term Unity user, I
         | never used the HUD at all and turned if off when I could.
         | 
         | But I think it says good things about the environment that
         | different users found their own things they liked about it.
        
       | Bolkan wrote:
       | Awesome. It was the last linux desktop I liked. Vertical appbar
       | worked better than anything available today.
        
       | akagusu wrote:
       | The feature I really miss from Unity is tap Alt and type for menu
       | options.
       | 
       | It was really useful when you didn't remember the menu option you
       | want.
       | 
       | Pretty innovative at the time.
        
       | rbanffy wrote:
       | It feels funny. When Ubuntu moved to the Gnome shell with their
       | customizations, it felt strange for a couple hours, then
       | everything made sense. I completely forgot I am not using Unity
       | on Ubuntu - the icons are where they used to be and that's about
       | what really feels different now from stock Gnome.
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Unity was probably the most straightforward n00b-friendly Linux
       | DE. I'm still rocking it in 2022 because I'm running a Lisp VLM
       | on a 16.06 Ubuntu image. It's... less objectionable than GNOME
       | and less fiddly than KDE.
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | This is great as it's from a third party any not forced on users.
       | Convergence was never a thing and it will never be a thing.
        
       | jstanley wrote:
       | Kind of off-topic, but I've been enjoying Regolith[0] on Ubuntu
       | lately.
       | 
       | It uses i3 as a window manager, but integrates a bit more neatly
       | with things like the Gnome Settings application so you can use
       | the tiling window manager but still don't have to configure
       | everything the hard way.
       | 
       | [0] https://regolith-desktop.com/
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | Interesting, will check it out. I think I've read that pop
         | shell from system76 is an i3 inspired layer on top of gnome.
         | I'm curious if it provides even better integration than
         | Regolith. Only problem is that the one serious attempt to port
         | pop shell to NixOS has been aborted. Will probably move from
         | i3/sway to one of these two at some point
        
         | fellerts wrote:
         | When Canonical dropped Unity for Gnome I also jumped to
         | Regolith, and have been very happy for a couple years. Fell in
         | love with the tiling aspect of i3 without the need to endlessly
         | tinker with my OS. This truly was a set-and-forget experience.
        
         | alexalx666 wrote:
         | its the best!
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | Unity was great. Pop comes close, but unity just worked.
        
       | pabs3 wrote:
       | and Unity 8 was forked as https://ubuntu-touch.io/
        
         | cm-t wrote:
         | Unity8 was (community) forked as lomiri https://lomiri.com/ (
         | And Ubuntu Touch is a distro that use Lomiri )
        
       | Yizahi wrote:
       | Is it still lagging on slower machines? I'll keep using XFCE for
       | the time being, like many other in this thread.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | antman wrote:
       | I remember what happened I think. There was a thread here on HN a
       | few years back presenting something new Ubuntu Unity related and
       | discussion developed about how Unity was bad. Someone from Ubuntu
       | team saw the thread and said he did not know people hated it so
       | much and they will look into into it/change it back to gnome?
       | Apparently forgotten and I can't find the thread to verify the
       | details!
        
         | bregma wrote:
         | I doubt very much that that anecdote is true.
         | 
         | I was involved in the development of Unity at Canonical, just
         | as I was involved in the development of the Eee PC at Xandros
         | before that. Unity developers were very well aware that there
         | was a small but extremely vocal minority of users who expressed
         | their strong dislike and contempt for their work. We were also
         | aware of the much larger and quieter plurality of people who
         | liked and appreciated it, and maybe the majority of people who
         | just turned on their computer and got to work without a second
         | thought about the desktop environment. A part of my job was
         | managing the negative feedback from users... I think would have
         | been aware of any decision to change back to Gnome based on the
         | strident and biased opinion of some rando on the internet.
         | 
         | For the record, Unity was discontinued as a business decision
         | to make Canonical more profitable for its investors. Plain and
         | simple. Normal everyday business.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | > Unity developers were very well aware that there was a
           | small but extremely vocal minority of users who expressed
           | their strong dislike and contempt for their work. We were
           | also aware of the much larger and quieter plurality of people
           | who liked and appreciated it, and maybe the majority of
           | people who just turned on their computer and got to work
           | without a second thought about the desktop environment.
           | 
           | How would you tell? If most people don't say anything and
           | most of the ones that do say something have negative
           | feedback, how do you distinguish between most people being
           | okay with it versus most people hating it quietly?
        
         | bmacho wrote:
         | Canonical and Unity went to the direction of Mir/phones/cars
         | but then they gave up, and Unity died.
        
         | lproven wrote:
         | [Article author here]
         | 
         | I am astonished at what a short memory HN has.
         | 
         | The Ubuntu project manager did an "ask HN" post on what people
         | wanted to see next. It is here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821
         | 
         | The result was fairly overwhelming: stop Unity, Mir, the mobile
         | stuff, etc.
         | 
         | So that is what happened.
         | 
         | I personally feel it was a huge mistake. :shrug:
        
           | akho wrote:
           | I opened that post. The top comment asks for mixed DPI,
           | trackpad gestures, and better power management. I had to scan
           | (and click the next page thing) quite a lot to get to
           | something that looked vaguely critical of Unity (and even
           | then it was "collaborate with Gnome more"). I wish they took
           | the other suggestions as seriously...
           | 
           | Unity was entirely pointless though.
        
             | lproven wrote:
             | Unity was _not_ pointless.
             | 
             | The point was that Microsoft was threatening to sue any
             | company distributing a Windows-like desktop Linux.
             | 
             | https://www.theregister.com/2006/11/20/microsoft_claims_lin
             | u...
             | 
             | SUSE signed a patent-sharing agreement; Red Hat and
             | Canonical said no.
             | 
             | Both developed their own non-Windows-like desktops. RH
             | sponsors GNOME, and many RH people worked on GNOME 3.
             | 
             | Canonical tried to get involved and was rebuffed. E.g.
             | https://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/tag/gnome
             | 
             | So it rebuilt its existing "Netbook Launcher" as a general-
             | purpose desktop.
             | 
             | MS didn't sue anyone in the end, but it got what it wanted:
             | massive fragmentation in the Linux world, no harmony, lots
             | of split and duplicated effort.
             | 
             | My analysis, from a decade ago, is here: https://www.thereg
             | ister.com/2013/06/03/thank_microsoft_for_l...
        
           | simion314 wrote:
           | >I am astonished at what a short memory HN has.
           | 
           | I remember this events too, probably HN hate was not the main
           | reason but probably it was the final straw.
           | 
           | Then you see some dudes ehre hating on snap, dudes calm down,
           | your fucking flatpacks are not equivalent, they are
           | GNOME/desktop centric, can't use them on a server.
        
         | knorker wrote:
         | What i remembered is that it was widely hated, and canonical
         | was shoving it down everyone's throats and saying things like
         | "we know that unity is objectively the best desktop environment
         | that ever existed", allowing them to discard any critique.
         | 
         | But eventually they had to face reality, and gave up.
         | 
         | I'm sure there were people who liked it. I never met one.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | Hi. I wrote the article at the top of this post. I am still
           | using Unity now as I have been doing for about a decade.
        
         | bitcharmer wrote:
         | I don't think Canonical cares at all about community input on
         | things like that (just look at snap). It was just that unity
         | really was that bad.
         | 
         | No need to blame HN crowd for this.
        
           | antman wrote:
           | I am not blaming, the opposite.
        
           | lproven wrote:
           | This is incorrect.
           | 
           | What Canonical did is exactly what HN asked them to do in
           | this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14002821
        
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