[HN Gopher] Suburbia Is Subsidized: Here's the Math
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Suburbia Is Subsidized: Here's the Math
        
       Author : ratata
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2022-07-02 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | stewartmcgown wrote:
       | I noticed this pattern of development in my town of Livingston,
       | in Scotland. it's a "new town" i.e. was planned and built in the
       | 50s to support the postwar boom. It is one of the few places in
       | Scotland that were designed as suburbs around a big shopping
       | mall, which makes it a distinctly soulless and culture-lite town.
       | 
       | The channel this video is from is out of this world. It redefined
       | how I think about the cities and towns we live in and what is the
       | objectively correct way to build them - with waaaaay more mixed
       | use walkable residential.
        
         | ratata wrote:
         | Most of the remaining walkable neighborhoods in the states were
         | built before that time period too. It's unfortunate that we let
         | automakers and fossil fuel interests take our cities hostage
         | with car dependent designs.
        
           | Scott_Sanderson wrote:
           | The Not Just Bikes YT channel recently observed that building
           | new walkable neighborhoods in the US and Canada is not legal.
           | 
           | The existing pre-war walkable neighborhoods are all we are
           | going to get and they are expensive. We made walking to
           | school a thing for rich kids.
        
       | georgia_peach wrote:
       | Of course it is. Now let's discuss the Chesterton Fence: When did
       | they start subsidizing it, and why? In the US, remember that
       | Eisenhower sold the interstate highway system as a defense item.
       | After the firebombing of European cities, after Hiroshima &
       | Nagasaki, and with the potential of the cold war turning hot,
       | doesn't it make sense to "nudge" people out of the cities--to de-
       | densify the population centers? And with the current geopolitical
       | situation, such considerations are pertinent as ever.
        
         | homonculus1 wrote:
         | There's no need for such an policy even if it were a strategic
         | goal. Urban environments have been "nudging" people towards
         | greener pastures since the 1960's.
        
           | georgia_peach wrote:
           | Interstate highway system, FHA/VA, Fannie/Freddie,
           | desegregation/civil rights passed by otherwise racist deep-
           | south representatives, and the most disruptive civic changes
           | coinciding with the touch-and-go moments of the cold war...
           | Necessary or not, it happened.
        
       | wizofaus wrote:
       | Is there a textual summary somewhere?
        
         | ratata wrote:
         | Here is an article that was referenced in the video:
         | https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason...
        
           | wizofaus wrote:
           | Thanks! Good read, hopefully will have time to read the whole
           | series (and watch the video!) eventually.
        
           | moomin wrote:
           | Read that before. It's amazing how it just lays out how an
           | entire way of life is not sustainable.
           | 
           | Of course, I live in a walkable neighbourhood in Europe, so
           | it's easy for me to say that.
        
             | wizofaus wrote:
             | Not even sustainable on a simple medium term economical
             | basis, regardless of externalities (environmental/human
             | health impacts). But that's arguably a good thing, as long
             | as we don't run out of money before making the necessary
             | changes...
        
       | OOD wrote:
       | I'd like to see if any of these results and conclusions change if
       | you take into account the total tax basis for suburbanites
       | (income tax, sales tax spent in the cities they don't live in,
       | etc.) versus the relatively less well off inner city urbanites.
       | Not all areas are the same, but in places like the Bay Area, a
       | lot of the high income earners move out to the suburbs (think
       | Palo Alto, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, etc.).
       | 
       | To add, a lot of the economic activities in downtown areas are by
       | workers and customers who live in the suburbs and commute into
       | town. I don't believe that was taken into account.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-07-02 23:01 UTC)