[HN Gopher] Suburbia Is Subsidized: Here's the Math
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Suburbia Is Subsidized: Here's the Math
Author : ratata
Score : 24 points
Date : 2022-07-02 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| stewartmcgown wrote:
| I noticed this pattern of development in my town of Livingston,
| in Scotland. it's a "new town" i.e. was planned and built in the
| 50s to support the postwar boom. It is one of the few places in
| Scotland that were designed as suburbs around a big shopping
| mall, which makes it a distinctly soulless and culture-lite town.
|
| The channel this video is from is out of this world. It redefined
| how I think about the cities and towns we live in and what is the
| objectively correct way to build them - with waaaaay more mixed
| use walkable residential.
| ratata wrote:
| Most of the remaining walkable neighborhoods in the states were
| built before that time period too. It's unfortunate that we let
| automakers and fossil fuel interests take our cities hostage
| with car dependent designs.
| Scott_Sanderson wrote:
| The Not Just Bikes YT channel recently observed that building
| new walkable neighborhoods in the US and Canada is not legal.
|
| The existing pre-war walkable neighborhoods are all we are
| going to get and they are expensive. We made walking to
| school a thing for rich kids.
| georgia_peach wrote:
| Of course it is. Now let's discuss the Chesterton Fence: When did
| they start subsidizing it, and why? In the US, remember that
| Eisenhower sold the interstate highway system as a defense item.
| After the firebombing of European cities, after Hiroshima &
| Nagasaki, and with the potential of the cold war turning hot,
| doesn't it make sense to "nudge" people out of the cities--to de-
| densify the population centers? And with the current geopolitical
| situation, such considerations are pertinent as ever.
| homonculus1 wrote:
| There's no need for such an policy even if it were a strategic
| goal. Urban environments have been "nudging" people towards
| greener pastures since the 1960's.
| georgia_peach wrote:
| Interstate highway system, FHA/VA, Fannie/Freddie,
| desegregation/civil rights passed by otherwise racist deep-
| south representatives, and the most disruptive civic changes
| coinciding with the touch-and-go moments of the cold war...
| Necessary or not, it happened.
| wizofaus wrote:
| Is there a textual summary somewhere?
| ratata wrote:
| Here is an article that was referenced in the video:
| https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/1/9/the-real-reason...
| wizofaus wrote:
| Thanks! Good read, hopefully will have time to read the whole
| series (and watch the video!) eventually.
| moomin wrote:
| Read that before. It's amazing how it just lays out how an
| entire way of life is not sustainable.
|
| Of course, I live in a walkable neighbourhood in Europe, so
| it's easy for me to say that.
| wizofaus wrote:
| Not even sustainable on a simple medium term economical
| basis, regardless of externalities (environmental/human
| health impacts). But that's arguably a good thing, as long
| as we don't run out of money before making the necessary
| changes...
| OOD wrote:
| I'd like to see if any of these results and conclusions change if
| you take into account the total tax basis for suburbanites
| (income tax, sales tax spent in the cities they don't live in,
| etc.) versus the relatively less well off inner city urbanites.
| Not all areas are the same, but in places like the Bay Area, a
| lot of the high income earners move out to the suburbs (think
| Palo Alto, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek, etc.).
|
| To add, a lot of the economic activities in downtown areas are by
| workers and customers who live in the suburbs and commute into
| town. I don't believe that was taken into account.
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