[HN Gopher] Goodbye, Feedly
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Goodbye, Feedly
        
       Author : erikgahner
       Score  : 179 points
       Date   : 2022-07-02 08:00 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (erikgahner.dk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (erikgahner.dk)
        
       | Semaphor wrote:
       | > I started using it because of its simplicity and minimalism.
       | 
       | That is so weird to me. I tried pretty much everything there was
       | back then (eventually settled on Newsblur only to switch to self-
       | hosted TT-RSS after they raised prices when I already barely got
       | any use out of their features) and Feedly always seemed like one
       | of the most bloated/featureful (pick your choice here :D) options
       | there was.
        
       | htk wrote:
       | For those in the Apple ecosystem I recommend NetNewsWire. It can
       | sync with iCloud without needing any extra services. I use it on
       | my Macs, iPads and iPhone.
       | 
       | (I'm not affiliated with them, just a happy user)
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Miniflux works great for me. Took a few months to get used to
       | minimal layout, but it has everything that I need to read RSS
       | feeds. I'm using paid hosted version, but there is an open source
       | version which can be self-hosted.
        
         | Rudism wrote:
         | Second this. I've been self-hosting Miniflux for years and love
         | it. It's dead simple to run (a single executable daemon or
         | docker container that you can run behind a reverse proxy) and
         | it sounds like exactly what the author of this article is
         | looking for--no frills RSS reader with a very minimalist
         | interface.
        
       | PaulKeeble wrote:
       | FreshRSS (https://freshrss.org/) is self hosted and its what I
       | have been using for years. There are a variety of RSS web readers
       | you can deploy to a home server or NAS or even just a raspberry
       | pi stuck in the corner they aren't very resource intensive as
       | programs and the docker images make them really easy to deploy.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | Been using freshrss and mostly happy with it. The UI is a
         | little clunky but the biggest wishlist item is if they let me
         | use article dates from feeds rather than fetch dates everywhere
        
       | r2222 wrote:
       | I've been very happy with https://feedbin.com
       | 
       | It's a paid RSS syncing service and web app too, costs $5 per
       | month, I use it with Reeder (and NetNewsWire etc). It doesn't
       | have any social cruft or AI assistants or ML companions.
       | 
       | I was also a Feedly user when I decided to try Feedbin, and I
       | immediately noticed how much faster fetching the feeds was on
       | Feedbin. I also like to have my email newsletters in same place
       | (forward them to a Feedbin-provided email address), and I can
       | have filters to mark things like sponsored posts and podcast show
       | notes as read automatically, basically like mute filters.
       | 
       | Feedly premium tier costs pretty much the same, and I wonder how
       | well it would stack against Feedbin. There's also Inoreader which
       | I think offers pretty similar feature set for a pretty similar
       | price.
       | 
       | Feedly free tier is excellent, and you can work around many of
       | its shortcomings by using an RSS reader app. For example, Feedly
       | free doesn't offer full text articles, but I can extract the full
       | text with Reeder/NetNewsWire/etc on the client-side. If you
       | really don't care about speed, mute filters, or reading
       | newsletters in your RSS reader, then Feedly free tier is already
       | more than enough.
        
         | phlyingpenguin wrote:
         | I've been using feedbin since Reader closed, so I guess 9
         | years. Still grandfathered in a $20/yr plan, even. The best
         | thing about it for me is that I mostly don't think about it
         | other than a visit to see my feeds. It does what I want and
         | isn't awful to look at. Most of the RSS apps I've ever used
         | have integration too. It's a lovely service.
        
         | Semiapies wrote:
         | Feedbin is pretty great. I was particularly glad it was paid,
         | early on, because that made it more likely to actually _stay
         | around_.
        
         | Derbasti wrote:
         | I've been using Feedbin ever since Google Reader died. It has
         | been awesome!
         | 
         | I use it to subscribe to YouTube channels, Twitter,
         | newsletters, Subreddits, HN, and, yes, RSS feeds. I frequently
         | use its sharing feature to pinboard.
         | 
         | I think I still pay the original $2 a month. But even at $5, it
         | is one of my favorite services of all time. Truly a gem.
         | 
         | Readably is a good reader for feedbin on Android.
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | I switched from Feedly to FeedBin recently for all the same
         | reasons and noticed all the same things you highlighted here. I
         | don't mind the nominal fee of $5/mo since it is a delightful
         | experience that is powerful, fast, and clean. They have added
         | features that I think we need, without the Bloat. Ironically
         | Feedly is only $1 more per month, but I was never enticed to
         | upgrade because the experience was really just awful. FeedBin
         | also gives access to a solid API for you to manage your feeds
         | and supports all the open standards as well to easily
         | import/export them.
         | 
         | I think the takeaway for product owners is that sometimes you
         | need to really zoom out and look at your product. I used Feedly
         | for 8-9 years as a free user and never wanted to upgrade. I was
         | willing to for the right product, but never did. Once I found a
         | simpler product (FeedBin) that met my needs, I immediately
         | paid.
         | 
         | Feedly has shoved ads and half-assed new features into their
         | product for almost a decade trying to get their influx of
         | Google Reader subscribers to upgrade. But no one was compelled
         | to. It eventually pissed off free users enough that they switch
         | to other paid alternatives. That's pretty sad honestly.
        
       | protonbob wrote:
       | Is there an easy to use self hosted solution for this?
        
         | hairofadog wrote:
         | If you're on a Mac or iOS you can use Reeder, which syncs to
         | iCloud and eliminates the need for any other cloud service. I
         | think other RSS apps may do the same.
        
           | astrostl wrote:
           | Reeder (et al.) + iCloud sync was a game-changer for me too.
        
       | frenkel wrote:
       | Feedbin is what the author wants. It is even open source.
        
         | edvinasbartkus wrote:
         | second that! and NetNewsWire is a great companion to Feedbin
         | when you want native experience on iPad/iPhone/Mac.
        
       | ismaildonmez wrote:
       | https://theoldreader.com/ is still the best thing after Google
       | Reader.
        
         | martini333 wrote:
         | Ugly UI.
        
           | ismaildonmez wrote:
           | So was Google Reader, and it worked fine. That's the whole
           | point.
        
             | Gualdrapo wrote:
             | Google Reader's UI wasn't that bad imho.
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | I tried it when they started, it was a sluggish mess that also
         | did not use the browser cache correctly. Maybe I noticed
         | because I had thousands of RSS feeds, I dunno. Granted, that
         | was a decade ago so I hope they improved it since.
         | 
         | I stick to https://newsblur.com/. It has it's quirks but is
         | way, way faster (two days ago a redesign came out that makes it
         | so fast I feel like I'm using the old Google Reader again)
        
           | stereoradonc wrote:
           | I read about their redesign today. I was with them for about
           | 5+ years but then eventually shifted to Inoreader.
        
         | vmoore wrote:
         | Or if you want to self host: https://miniflux.app/
        
         | mikechalmers wrote:
         | Agreed - I've been using it since Google Reader ended and have
         | used it practically daily since. While they've implemented some
         | limitations and premium options, the interface has stayed
         | basically the same with some unobtrusive elements.
         | 
         | I did have to cull some inactive blogs at one point, to stay
         | within my tier limit, but was happy to do so. Incredible that
         | it's been 9 years with barely any UI changes - I think this
         | demonstrates how effective it is.
        
         | radiosnob wrote:
         | I rarely ever pay for services on the web. But I will pay for
         | theoldreader. My mind is getting foggy with age, but I think it
         | does everything that Google Reader did, and not much more. The
         | perfect drop-in replacement.
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | My biggest pet peeve with Feedly is that it doesn't allow for
       | filtering by keyword (which could be done on-device to save
       | server resources if that's a concern) without a monthly
       | subscription that includes tons of things I don't care about,
       | like this AI thing and whatnot. I'd even pay a one time fee for
       | this right. But forcing users to pay for something so simple in
       | perpetuity seems ridiculous.
        
       | boboche wrote:
       | Same path here, google, feedly, ragequit feedly due to
       | bloat/jirafication, now inoreader. Up to 150 feeds supported,
       | works awesome on ipad and web.
        
       | madsbuch wrote:
       | Growth vs. value, development vs. maintenance, innovation vs.
       | operations.
       | 
       | It really seems like a lot of projects should embrace the the
       | path of becoming a stable product: Charging 10 USD a year,
       | assigning a single person to a comfy job of maintaining the app
       | without adding new features. Just maintaining infrastructure,
       | updating packages, and doing the occasional exchange of stack
       | when old technologies are deprecated...
       | 
       | Why doesn't that happen more?
        
         | Semiapies wrote:
         | Most people don't actually want to pay for things.
        
         | wahnfrieden wrote:
         | Investors looking for returns
         | 
         | What you're describing is a kind of anti growth public service.
         | Sounds nice!
        
       | dafi70 wrote:
       | I agree with you about useless PRO features.
       | 
       | I loved the 'Mute filters' feature, but they ruined it forcing to
       | use Leo, expressions like "title:HackerNews" are no longer
       | available and LEO is less useful than a simple search by keyword
       | 
       | but... there is a "but", I use Feedly APIs and I love them, I
       | developed apps for myself to aggregate and quickly find
       | informations starting from the feeds, using Feedly is so easy, so
       | I continue to pay for a really small subset of features only to
       | be able to extract info from my RSS feeds
        
       | chazeon wrote:
       | Feedly is not serious RSS. They don't have the right taste for
       | the RSS guys of right mind. Switched off after a few months years
       | ago, then become a user for Feedbin. I recently switched to self
       | hosted Miniflux due to their customizable full text scraper and
       | had never been happier.
        
       | smitty1e wrote:
       | I'm torn between the love of Free Stuff and the understanding
       | that even Free Stuff costs money.
        
         | lbriner wrote:
         | It's not even a choice between free and not-free, sometimes you
         | would be happy to pay but then the tool becomes bloatware. As
         | the OP said, why do you need two vertical menus for an RSS
         | reader? Why not hide the advanced stuff under an advanced menu
         | or allow customising what is and isn't visible?
         | 
         | Plenty of apps/sites become popular on a strong core USP which
         | people want and then add a tonne of cruft as they pretend they
         | are adding value, when in many cases it is just noise that only
         | a few people want/use but everyone else has to suffer the UX
         | changes along the way.
        
       | livelace wrote:
       | Cannot stay away, because I'm a guy who used Google Reader and
       | moved all my RSS stuff 1-2 years before Google Reader was finally
       | closed. I tried to use Feedly and other tools, but at that time I
       | decided to use rss2email. Right now I have my own tool
       | (https://github.com/livelace/gosquito) for data gathering from
       | different sources. One way to use it - just put news into mail
       | system (I'm Zimbra user -
       | https://paste.pics/7f48e9ca655de96f2160ecbff474bbca, and I use
       | internal search engine heavily).
       | 
       | I don't depend on external services and can process data as I
       | want.
        
       | karolist wrote:
       | For many years I'm using ReadKit for Mac and couldn't be happier.
       | Paid once in like 2014 and the app is still getting updates plus
       | I get to my content without third parties. Why use a web service
       | for something that doesn't need a backend to function?
        
       | hestefisk wrote:
       | NetNewsWire user here. It's very good. Would love one running on
       | Linux natively.
        
         | thombles wrote:
         | The closest equivalents I've found on other platforms are
         | Akregator (Linux/KDE) and QuiteRSS (Win).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | shimmeringleaf wrote:
         | Seconded, it would be lovely to have cross platform. Simple and
         | just works without fuss. Now, if only more websites would have
         | RSS feeds these days.. it's been a steady decline.
        
           | timbit42 wrote:
           | QuiteRSS. It even runs on OS/2.
        
       | Cupertino95014 wrote:
       | I use free Feedly multiple times a day, since the demise of
       | Reader. I'm scanning the comments for another free alternative
       | that doesn't suck, but so far I haven't found one.
       | 
       | The prompts for "give us money" are infrequent enough that they
       | don't bother me, much. What do you want for nothing, a
       | rrrrrrrubber biscuit? [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYyBZE0kBtE
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | Inoreader
        
         | applefangirl wrote:
         | I've got a couple recommendations. I currently use Net News
         | Wire and News Explorer on the Mac. News Explorer has excelent
         | YouTube integration. If you're into web apps Feedbin is IMO
         | well worth the price.
        
       | stiltzkin wrote:
       | For free solutions there are better alternatives out there not
       | sure the benefits of using free Feedly.
       | 
       | As a Pro Feedly user since Google Reader brigade I got to agree
       | to some sentiments about what Feedly offers for pro users, seems
       | the Feedly team has the typical startup problem which is run by
       | marketing people with out of dated ideas.
       | 
       | The only feature I have to give props is building your own RSS
       | reader from any website which has worked great on many site I
       | could not work with.
       | 
       | But for the price you pay so many features are so really niche
       | that i dont need.
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | I dont understqnd this attitude. I use feedly and like the author
       | of tfa I don't pay them any money, so I ignore the junk. This is
       | the price you have to pay when you get something for free. I have
       | a lot of sympathy for feedly: it seems like a really hard thing
       | to get people to pay for. What does the author think feedly
       | should do with its free tier?
       | 
       | Before feedly I self hosted TinyTinyRss for a while (kind of
       | slow) and before that Google Reader. And before that Newsblur. I
       | never paid for any of them and now I have more than enough paid
       | subscriptions for stuff. Reading rss feeds just doesn't make it
       | over the line of things I'd be willing to pay for.
       | 
       | Edit: I pay PS10/month for Adobe Creative Cloud and get
       | Photoshop, Lightroom, XD, Illustrator, etc. I pay ~PS8/month for
       | Office 365 and get Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. All massively
       | rich and powerful tools. Why does feedly imagine I would want to
       | pay PS5/month to read rss feeds?
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | > What does the author think feedly should do with its free
         | tier?
         | 
         | Not the author, but I think they should restrict the free tier
         | to a small number of feeds rather than nag. Asking users to pay
         | to get more is positive whereas asking users to pay to reduce
         | nagging is negative.
        
           | rammy1234 wrote:
           | Absolutely 100%, myself and my friend were discussing the
           | same about products. An upgrade should be about getting the
           | same benefits but more. 10X speed upgrade does make product
           | look bad. Instead reducing number of feeds you can have or
           | grouping etc but a bad product is not a free tier. It is
           | nuisance to deal with in our busy lives.
        
         | tribby wrote:
         | > I ignore the junk. This is the price you have to pay when you
         | get something for free.
         | 
         | clearly it isn't, or the author wouldn't have been able to move
         | to a free alternative without any junk to ignore.
        
           | andyjohnson0 wrote:
           | I probably didn't express myself sufficiently clearly. I'm
           | pleased that the author has moved from a Web app to local,
           | open source apps. Definitely a good move, particularly on
           | mobile. What I don't get is going to the effort of writing a
           | blog post about the annoyance of using the free tier of a
           | service provided by a commercial business. That tier is there
           | to let people try the service. It's not surprising that the
           | experience isn't friction-free: it's not meant to be.
        
             | Adraghast wrote:
             | > It's not surprising that the experience isn't friction-
             | free: it's not meant to be.
             | 
             | This is an argument for the intentional creation of bad
             | software.
        
               | Semiapies wrote:
               | Or for not having free tiers.
        
         | spidersouris wrote:
         | > Edit: I pay PS10/month for Adobe Creative Cloud and get
         | Photoshop, Lightroom, XD, Illustrator, etc. I pay ~PS8/month
         | for Office 365 and get Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc. All
         | massively rich and powerful tools. Why does feedly imagine I
         | would want to pay PS5/month to read rss feeds?
         | 
         | Because Freedly doesn't have Microsoft or Adobe's budget and
         | needs to have its costs covered?
        
         | mtlynch wrote:
         | > _Why does feedly imagine I would want to pay PS5 /month to
         | read rss feeds?_
         | 
         | Microsoft and Adobe need massive scale to charge prices that
         | low. They're each probably 10,000x-100,000x larger than Feedly
         | in terms of end-user licenses.
         | 
         | For a service I find useful enough to choose over a free
         | alternative, I'm happy to pay $5-30/month to fund development
         | and maintenance. I don't want all my software coming from the
         | Microsofts and Adobes of the world.
        
       | keithnz wrote:
       | I find feedly works really great. I'm on the free tier, my UI is
       | relatively uncluttered, they introduce new things from time to
       | time, but mostly it's the same as when I first started when
       | google reader shutdown.
       | 
       | I get this author doesn't like it, but it all seems a bit overly
       | dramatic for a few feeds.
        
       | kken wrote:
       | NewsBlur is pretty good and does exactly what it is intended for.
        
       | scarface74 wrote:
       | I deleted Feedly from my phone a long time ago for some reason. I
       | can't remember why. It wasn't because I didn't like it.
       | 
       | I redownloaded it a few weeks ago and it was a shit show. I
       | looked for other alternatives and I found NetNewsWire.
       | 
       | It has a long history of first being a commercial product by an
       | indy Mac dev. He sold it to another company, reacquired the
       | rights, updated it and now it's free and open source for the Mac
       | and iOS. It's clean and does the basics.
        
       | browningstreet wrote:
       | I pay for Feedly, and have since the beginning, but I don't love
       | it. Their search function has severe usability issues, which I've
       | emailed them, and their enhanced features are stupid and useless.
       | 
       | I don't like Feedly, and use Unread on the iPhone to read the
       | feeds. They are like the Evernote of today. Every year I think
       | I'll dump them and probably will. It's just been laziness so far.
       | 
       | I pay, they feed my RSS feeds, so in that regard, it works. But
       | yeah, I feel OP.
        
       | JackFr wrote:
       | OP is using a free service. Free service introduces changes which
       | irritate OP. OP stops using service and looks for alternatives.
       | 
       | All good.
       | 
       | What I (and seemingly many other commenters) take issue with is
       | the tone of the piece. That the OP has been disappointed, that
       | they know better than Feedly management about what features to
       | include and how to market them, that they are owed some sort of a
       | user experience.
       | 
       | I suppose the OP is offering this post as guidance and
       | explanation for Feedly management but I can't imagine that this
       | moves the needle.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | Like the author and plenty of commenters have posted, even
       | something as simple as an RSS feed is expensive when hosted among
       | tens of thousands of users.
       | 
       | > One of the features is that I will get "new articles up to 10x
       | faster". What's that supposed to mean? That I have not been
       | getting new articles straight away when I visit Feedly?
       | 
       | This is a perfect example of what we take for granted, multi
       | users RSS feeds have to poll missing pub dates, they don't just
       | fetch the latest posts on a users request. This game where they
       | pull the curtain and you realize how bottle necked you are as a
       | free user, that's the sad game of running a business on these
       | types of services.
       | 
       | I've had an idea for an RSS reader for quite some time. One with
       | a layout like HackerNews or early Reddit where all users have
       | their own RSS feed, they can look at and follow other users feed
       | items. there's a main page with posts ranked by number of
       | followers and comments on each post. then of course a personal
       | feed.
       | 
       | But considering how much feature creep these services suffer, I
       | don't see how I'd be able to keep it running without some premium
       | payment system, certainly donations can't serve enough.
        
       | t6jvcereio wrote:
       | If you like simplistic, why not newsboat? I bet you it's faster
       | than any POS web app
       | 
       | https://newsboat.org/
        
       | naugtur wrote:
       | If you liked it before all the monetization strategies, maybe
       | should have paid for it to keep it sustainable that way?
        
         | jacurtis wrote:
         | I'm am a huge proponent for paying for good software to support
         | developers and creators.
         | 
         | HOWEVER, I think you sentiment is wrong here. You _should_
         | support creators that are doing things you like so that they
         | keep doing those things you like. But it doesn't make sense to
         | pay creators that are doing think you don't like. The fact that
         | you start paying them is taken as confirmation that you are
         | enjoying the product.
         | 
         | Imagine if we all hated Feedly's product but banded together to
         | have everyone subscribe to Feedly to support them. They would
         | see that userbase as confirmation to keep doing what they are
         | doing, building shitty software. They aren't going to about
         | face their product strategy because you are paying them $6 a
         | month now.
         | 
         | So instead what we should all do is find creators that are
         | doing RSS readers justice and support THOSE creators. For
         | example, I switched from Feedly to Feedbin. I was a free user
         | at Feedly and never wanted to upgrade because, like the author
         | of the article said, it was bloated and unejoyable and the
         | premium features weren't things I needed. So instead I found a
         | tool that is everything I wanted, which happened to be FeedBin.
         | I supported them and am paying them $5 per month for them to
         | continue their efforts because they are building the software
         | the way I want RSS Readers to be. So I would like to see them
         | survive and thats what my paid subscription provides.
         | 
         | Let's encourage good products. No reason to throw good money at
         | bad products. Find the good ones and support those.
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | I don't think so. It would just be nagging for other things. I
         | think this is a design philosophy by Feedly and paying just
         | pushes the problem down the road.
         | 
         | I pay for creative cloud and there's so many ads and pitches
         | for new products. I long for the days where I pirated ps6 and
         | never had any ads (or paid for it too).
        
       | jefftk wrote:
       | _> One of the features is that I will get "new articles up to 10x
       | faster". What's that supposed to mean? That I have not been
       | getting new articles straight away when I visit Feedly?_
       | 
       | One of the features of Pro is that they'll pull the feeds you're
       | subscribed to at a higher frequency. I think this is an example
       | of doing freemium well!
        
         | Gualdrapo wrote:
         | Was going to mention this. For example, I see HN posts via
         | Feedly. But after each fetch for "new" articles, the most
         | recent ones it shows me from HN are from an hour ago at least.
         | For some other websites it pulls their "most recent" content
         | from the previous day.
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | I don't pay Feedly any money now because many years they were
       | raising funds to buy new servers, and offered a premium service
       | in perpetuity to anyone paying $100, which I did on the spot. It
       | is a solid service that has grown to be a bit bigger than I'd
       | love, but it does what it needs to. And if you don't like the
       | 'marketing cruft' you can just block it with your adblocker of
       | choice, not a rocket science.
        
       | dwighttk wrote:
       | Huh. I use Feedly but access it through Reeder and don't seem to
       | have many troubles.
       | 
       | Every once in a while I think of unsubscribing to a feed and it
       | _is_ a bit of an adventure, but that is my only complaint.
        
         | b-lee wrote:
         | BTW I didn't understand the need for connecting Feedly to
         | reader. Why didn't you simply import the OPML from Feedly to
         | Reeder?
        
           | dwighttk wrote:
           | I set it up 9 years ago and OPML import was not made obvious
           | to me.
           | 
           | Or possibly: I think I was using NetNewsWire on desktop or
           | something when I set it up, so maybe it was obvious but I
           | wanted read-syncing between different platforms.
        
       | UrgentOpinion wrote:
       | One of the most useful features of Feedly for me was that you
       | could export full articles with highlights as PDFs. Yet to find
       | another RSS reader that can do this - am currently using
       | Inoreader's highlighting features.
        
       | sascha_sl wrote:
       | Feedly has put a lot more effort into being a research tool,
       | probably mostly for marketing in the past, well, years.
       | 
       | Of course it clashes with being a simple RSS reader for the
       | author. This is just mismatched expectations, not Feedly getting
       | worse.
        
       | almog wrote:
       | After going through Google Reader, Feedly, Newsblur and QuiteRSS,
       | I've finally settled on Newsboat, as I can really customize it to
       | my needs, debug it and even integrate custom html to rss
       | generators.
       | 
       | For example, ebay has recently recently stopped supporting RSS
       | through search results (an '_rss=1' query string was supported
       | for over 10 years), and while there are some workaround such as
       | using different search endpoint where the RSS has not been
       | deprecated yet, with Newsboat, I was able to write a custom
       | filter to extract RSS with just few lines of code:
       | https://github.com/almog/newsboat-ebay2rss-filter
        
       | cogitoergo_some wrote:
       | I've been using Feeder on Android, and it's been quite simple and
       | responsive -
       | 
       | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nononsense...
       | 
       | If there are any other recommendations for apps on Android, those
       | would be welcome too.
        
       | sweston4 wrote:
       | I don't have any of these issues at all? I've a folder called
       | 'main blogs' which is just every feed I follow. Any link I have
       | to Feedly is a link to my 'main blogs' folder which provides a
       | pretty clean interface. I have 0 adds on my 'main blogs' page
       | currently. Perhaps a similar setup would work for others.
        
       | longrod wrote:
       | Going through the article I realized this attitude is what
       | eventually kills some really good software. If a software does
       | what you expect it to do and does it well but includes a few
       | prompts here and there for marketing purposes...is that really so
       | bad?
       | 
       | Live and let live, I say. Not everyone is running a charity and
       | Feedly is nowhere even near the top of the list of software
       | ripping off their users or selling their data to make money.
       | 
       | What the author labels as "cluttered" is really not that
       | cluttered at all. It looks much better than an completely empty
       | list in the alternative they prefer. But that's just UI.
       | 
       | I am not saying don't move to another alternative. I am just
       | saying that the reasons the author is calling Feedly out for are
       | unjustified and don't really make sense.
        
         | pllbnk wrote:
         | Furthermore, if the author was so interested in uncluttered UI,
         | they shouldn't say they've "done everything they could" because
         | there's more you can do, such as customize the HTML, CSS or
         | even JS. Clearly, they chose to spend this time writing an
         | empty rant and advertising a tool for Mac. Since majority of
         | users are not on Mac anyway, it's not even a viable alternative
         | because from that point of view, Feedly is much more accessible
         | and user friendly than the advertised product.
         | 
         | I am a Feedly user as well and I have noticed the feature creep
         | but it was easy to ignore, so I hope to be able to keep using
         | it as successfully as I have for the past 9 (!) years.
        
         | forgotmypw17 wrote:
         | The author makes sense to me, and I think it is justified. Any
         | extra prompts beyond what I expect the software to do for my
         | purposes is extra cognitive load -- inputs which I have to deal
         | with using my very limited senses and processing abilities. At
         | some point, it becomes more trouble than it's worth, and that's
         | when I quit and move on.
         | 
         | It's one of the reasons I no longer acknowledge or interact
         | with cookie prompts, newsletter dialogs, notifications, or
         | anything else interferes with my use of a Web page. If anything
         | at all like that happens, I just close the page and move on.
         | (Sometimes I just ignore the cookie prompts and read around
         | them.)
         | 
         | As a long-term strategy, this has paid off by not only saving
         | me time and grief, but also made me realize that poorly
         | designed usability correlates strongly with poor quality
         | content, which I also save time by avoiding.
         | 
         | I think you are speaking from a point of view of having
         | cognitive ability to spare, as opposed to struggling to keep up
         | with cognitive load which is too much to handle.
        
         | sys_64738 wrote:
         | > If a software does what you expect it to do and does it well
         | but includes a few prompts here and there for marketing
         | purposes...is that really so bad?
         | 
         | Don't change things. It's not hard. Leave things alone. Be
         | consistent.
         | 
         | Marketing? If you pay for it already that's all the marketing
         | needed. Don't go trying to suck data from elsewhere with
         | creeper policies to sell the data to creeper brokers.
        
           | DSMan195276 wrote:
           | > Marketing? If you pay for it already that's all the
           | marketing needed.
           | 
           | I mean, based on what the author said, they're not paying for
           | it. In fact they're annoyed there is a button asking them to
           | pay for it :D
        
         | bayindirh wrote:
         | > is that really so bad?
         | 
         | In case of Feedly, yes. I feel like a hamster being tried to be
         | converted. Feedly's free tier doesn't feel like free. It feels
         | like a getaway drug which tries to make you pay for other
         | features.
         | 
         | I have used for a week, then SDF announced availability of
         | their TTRSS instance. As a paying member, I moved there. I am
         | much more happier now.
         | 
         | TTRSS is free and open source. I'm just supporting SDF so they
         | can continue to exist.
        
           | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
           | > In case of Feedly, yes. I feel like a hamster being tried
           | to be converted.
           | 
           | You are a hamster trying to be converted. That's the point of
           | the free tier. You could just pay for it and the nagging
           | would stop. You are now paying for TTRSS and have the
           | experience of a paying customer.
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | Hard to say.
             | 
             | Part of the appeal of advertising in _Cosmpolitan_ or the
             | _New York Times_ is that the readers have qualified
             | themselves by paying for a subscription.
             | 
             | Netflix is playing a dangerous game by letting people pay
             | to turn on ads because the kind of person who values their
             | attention so little to save a few dollars isn't going to
             | buy anything. The really desirable people to advertise to
             | are the ones who have more money to spend.
             | 
             | My guess is that a person who subscribes to the entry level
             | of a product is more likely to be upsold to something else
             | than a free user is going to even think about paying. (e.g.
             | try watching TV during the daytime and it is depressing to
             | see ads for prescription drugs and Medicare scams and
             | personal injury lawyers, the one thing you might rarely see
             | that people spend their own money on is car dealerships and
             | I guess they need those because I'd nobody bought a car you
             | could never get hit by a car and call William Mattar.)
        
               | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
               | > The really desirable people to advertise to are the
               | ones who have more money to spend.
               | 
               | The people you want to advertise to are not necessarily
               | people who have money. It's people who will buy your
               | product. That's the supposed value of online advertising:
               | better targeting. There is still plenty of money to be
               | made outside of the most affluent segments.
               | 
               | > My guess is that a person who subscribes to the entry
               | level of a product is more likely to be upsold to
               | something else than a free user is going to even think
               | about paying.
               | 
               | That's true. But you still need a way to onboard people
               | on the first paying tier at some point.
               | 
               | > try watching TV during the daytime and it is depressing
               | to see ads for prescription drugs and Medicare scams and
               | personal injury lawyers
               | 
               | That's because of the demographic who watch TV during
               | daytime: mostly retired people or unemployed people
               | amongst which disabilities must be above average. Forty
               | years ago you will have bombarded with ads for soap.
        
               | Semiapies wrote:
               | _My guess is that a person who subscribes to the entry
               | level of a product is more likely to be upsold to
               | something else than a free user is going to even think
               | about paying._
               | 
               | I think this is the crucial thing. If you offer a service
               | with what you might call a "livable" or "comfortable"
               | free tier, it will end up used as heavily as you allow by
               | people who will cost you resources indefinitely, but who
               | are far more likely to switch to another free service
               | than to ever pay you a cent. For instance, as terrible as
               | this blogger claims to have found Feedly, he used it for
               | nearly a decade!
               | 
               | Skip the temptation to try to eke out a little money from
               | the free tier (because you probably won't) and think of
               | it strictly as a trial option. Either give a time-limited
               | free trial of the service or a heavily-limited version of
               | the service that shows how it works, but that absolutely
               | nobody would want to use at that level forever.
               | 
               | (And in that latter case, then you'll _still_ find one or
               | two users who are willing to subsist on your free tier,
               | whether that 's a 3-feed RSS reader or whatever. Shrug
               | and reflect that those weirdos aren't costing you much.)
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | I don't agree that having a comfortable free tier
               | inhibits upward movement in the subscription structure of
               | a service.
               | 
               | I've started all the services I pay from their free
               | tiers. Most notable examples are Evernote, Trello,
               | Dropbox and Pocket. As I continued using these tools,
               | I've overgrown them, and the features they offer on
               | subscription tiers started to make sense.
               | 
               | As a result, I've directly bought the highest tier of
               | service which both makes sense and I can afford.
               | 
               | Feedly is different in that regard. They provide a free
               | service, nag me, insert ads into the stream, all at the
               | same time.
               | 
               | Turn down nagging, keep the ads, that's OK. Add a time
               | trial, don't sell ads, that's OK too. But they bombard
               | you, and it comes down to "pay us or go away", and I went
               | away. Not in a decade, but in a week.
               | 
               | I'm a fan of "small web". Simple services which do one
               | thing, and do it well. Simplymail, Source Hut, Mataroa,
               | Smol.pub, etc. They're also paid services, and I also pay
               | for some of them. It's a simple transaction. $X for a
               | year, no tracking, no funny data business, for these
               | services. This is beyond elegant.
               | 
               | I found out that I have got enough of the modern web,
               | with sites overloading my senses and doing all kinds of
               | funny business with my information even if I pay them.
               | 
               | Feedly is a business, they want to earn money and provide
               | services, that's fair. They can operate the way they
               | want, and I'm not entitled to tell them how to operate,
               | or force them. On the other hand, they're not entitled to
               | my money or continued patronage because I opened an
               | account on their service and gave a test drive.
        
             | FBISurveillance wrote:
             | A happy paying Feedly user ever since Google Reader shut
             | down. I find it great.
             | 
             | I'm also a paying Dropbox customer and they keep nagging
             | about Dropbox for Business and _that_ I find annoying.
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | I'm not paying for TTRSS. I'm _donating to_ SDF[0], which
             | is free, but I 'm paying to keep them sustainable. They
             | added TTRSS to the services they offer, so I moved there. I
             | can clone and install TTRSS[1] to a VPS of mine in 20
             | minutes, but I'm lazy.
             | 
             | > You are a hamster trying to be converted. That's the
             | point of the free tier.
             | 
             | I don't think so. Trello's free tier is usable. GitLab and
             | GitHub's free tiers are usable, Pocket's free tier is
             | usable. I'm paying to many services which I can use freely
             | and get things done, and I pay for the highest tier I can
             | make use of and fits my budget, but Feedly's take is esp.
             | bad about their paid tier and nagging.
             | 
             | The problem is not presence of paid tier. It's how it's
             | presented to you. I can pay for feedly, but I don't need
             | the features me, and they were so pushy that it put me off.
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.sdf.org
             | 
             | [1]: https://tt-rss.org/
        
           | Deletionk wrote:
           | Your sentiment is frustrating to read as a software
           | engineer.either do it yourself or accept that those people
           | also want to have a great job, good salary etc.
           | 
           | And as stated on another comment: no it's not that bad. I use
           | it free since Google shut down theirs
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | Your sentiment is also frustrating to read as a software
             | engineer. As I stated before, I pay for a lot of services,
             | and pay for their highest tier plans because I feel that
             | they deserve my money.
             | 
             | However, Feedly feels like they want my money first instead
             | of giving me more or better service, and I don't feel like
             | they deserve my money, so I don't pay them.
        
         | PainfullyNormal wrote:
         | > but includes a few prompts here and there for marketing
         | purposes...is that really so bad?
         | 
         | If you have two viable options where one is a profound
         | annoyance to you and one isn't, why wouldn't you choose the
         | second option?
        
           | applefangirl wrote:
           | True, and in the case of the Mac you've got a lot of good
           | options with different design choices.
        
         | jka wrote:
         | > If a software does what you expect it to do and does it well
         | but includes a few prompts here and there for marketing
         | purposes...is that really so bad?
         | 
         | As the article mentions, the problem generally isn't any one
         | individual change - the concern is about the sense of direction
         | for the overall project. The typical direction is from "simple
         | software that helps people to achieve some goals" towards
         | "product with features designed to increase revenue, data
         | gathering, and stickiness" -- like the login-required anti-
         | feature mentioned.
         | 
         | If those changes are gradual then users may not really notice
         | the small differences as they introduced, and if anyone does
         | complain, it becomes easy for supporters of the project to
         | deflect complaints (as, arguably, you may be here -- not
         | ostensibly trying to keep the author with the product, but
         | trying to reduce their credibility and persuade others that
         | there is no problem).
         | 
         | In many cases, free and open source software can help avoid a
         | project falling into dark patterns because it's possible for
         | people who disagree to fork it and maintain/promote their own
         | alternative -- and then for other people to compare the
         | original and the fork on their merits (which are transparent).
        
         | blacklight wrote:
         | RSS is basically impossible to monetize. It's a protocol to
         | access content. Monetizing RSS is like trying to monetize HTTP.
         | 
         | The problem is that companies try to monetize RSS, and the only
         | way of doing so is to provide features that RSS can't offer.
         | AI-curated feeds, integrations with X or Y, nudges to let go of
         | RSS entirely for some applications and instead use whatever
         | integration they've come up with...
         | 
         | Some people may be happy with this. Some people may only care
         | about the information they eventually get, not HOW they get it.
         | But I'm not among those people, and many other people are not.
         | 
         | I personally felt very annoyed by Feedly nagging me on a daily
         | basis to upgrade in order to get features that I didn't need
         | and never asked for.
         | 
         | I feel like being approached every day by a dude who wants to
         | sell me a vaccum cleaner that I don't want. And of course I
         | understand that they also need to make money, but they should
         | also respect those who simply want an RSS reader and are
         | insensitive to all these campaigns.
         | 
         | Thats the reason why I moved from Feedly to a self-hosted
         | Miniflux instance (and Nextcloud News before it). If I host it
         | myself, then I don't have to pay anyone for hosting my feeds,
         | and I'm not supposed to be targeted by marketing campaigns to
         | pull money out of my wallet on a daily basis.
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | >RSS is basically impossible to monetize.
           | 
           | It may also be illegal (or at least on shaky grounds) if you
           | happen to make money out of content that is not yours.
        
           | Deletionk wrote:
           | I'm using the Feedly app not paid since Google shut down
           | theirs.
           | 
           | I have no clue what you mean.
           | 
           | Where do they show this daily?
           | 
           | And don't get me wrong, you traided self management against a
           | nag pop up? It's your choice but Feedly still does it with a
           | reasonable offering.
           | 
           | And I actually thinking about going pro to remove all the
           | rumor news shit I don't care and the cve feature sounds nice
           | as well.
        
           | meanmrmustard92 wrote:
           | I pay for Inoreader and really like it. Somewhat ironically,
           | its killer feature for my use case is the ability to ingest
           | emailed content will make emailed content look like any other
           | RSS feed, since lots of scientific journals / sites have
           | stopped using RSS.
        
           | pavel_lishin wrote:
           | > _The problem is that companies try to monetize RSS, and the
           | only way of doing so is to provide features that RSS can 't
           | offer._
           | 
           | I don't know if I agree; I pay Newsblur a yearly fee because
           | it's worth it to me having a centralized web-app that I don't
           | have to self-host (and consequently, don't have to worry
           | about paying for, or hitting rate limits, etc.) with a nice
           | UI and a few features like sorting by folder.
           | 
           | Granted, I have no idea how much it costs to run Newsblur; I
           | certainly hope they're at least breaking even. I also don't
           | know if I'm a typical-enough user.
        
         | deanmoriarty wrote:
         | When I read threads like these I feel I must be terribly
         | unsophisticated/"un"-picky compared to the average HN users. I
         | have been using Feedly since when Google Reader went down, and
         | I follow ~100 feeds (including HN! I never browse articles
         | through the front page, I let articles with enough upvotes like
         | this come to me via Feedly) in 5-10 reading sessions a day from
         | browser and iOS apps, so I'd say I'm a very active user.
         | 
         | I am on the free tier and nothing ever bothers me, it continues
         | being a wonderful service every day. The ads are fine, I
         | totally understand it. -\\_(tsu)_/-
         | 
         | The same is largely true of free products from which I get
         | massive value but HN constantly complains about: Google Search,
         | Reddit, ...
        
           | xtracto wrote:
           | I actually have been a Feedly subscriber for years (since
           | Google reader closed). However I seldom use it anymore. At
           | some point it gave me anxiety bc of the amount of unread
           | articles. I pay for it yearly... I actually think I should
           | unsubscribe
        
         | hamdouni wrote:
         | > that the reasons the author is calling Feedly out for are
         | unjustified and don't really make sense.
         | 
         | Well, at least it is justified and make sense for the author.
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | > is that really so bad?
         | 
         | I think in many situations, yes. I grew up with shareware and
         | so I know that prompts are necessary to drive income.
         | 
         | What the prompts in this article are so bad at is that they are
         | perpetual. Is it really necessary to nag a user over and over
         | for something they don't want and declined? That is probably
         | not going to work in the long run as people associate a bad
         | experience with the product.
         | 
         | Figure out a better way to get income that doesn't involve
         | perpetually wasting a user's time and frustrating them.
        
           | ianai wrote:
           | They could just have an "ad" screen like the about screen.
           | Encourage users to check it out or leave it open for a time
           | as a source of support for the product.
           | 
           | I'm guessing the most innocuous is just a banner ad of
           | reasonable size that doesn't detract too much from usable
           | space.
           | 
           | Or, you know, people could pay for their software.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | I think I bought a ton of shareware that had innocuous
             | purchase ads (eg, id's commander keen). The idea isn't that
             | ads are bad, but that having continuous ads over and over
             | is annoying and unlikely to result in me buying.
        
           | Semiapies wrote:
           | Not giving out a service for free is probably the best
           | option.
        
         | rammy1234 wrote:
         | It does makes sense to me. RSS feeds were supposed to get you
         | to the articles quick enough. With all these pop ups and ads
         | and whatever, we lose the essence of RSS.
        
         | blendergeek wrote:
         | > If a software does what you expect it to do and does it well
         | but includes a few prompts here and there for marketing
         | purposes...is that really so bad?
         | 
         | According to the article, Feedly no longer upholds the basic
         | promise of an RSS feed reader: to allow the user to curate a
         | list of RSS feeds and follow them.
         | 
         | From the article:
         | 
         | > For example, I recently wanted to add an RSS feed for a
         | Reddit user, but it was not possible in Feedly. In order to do
         | so, I had to connect to Reddit with my Reddit user, i.e., allow
         | Feedly to access my data. No way, no thanks.
         | 
         | If an RSS feed reader makes it "not possible" to import certain
         | RSS feeds because the app instead wants to use proprietary APIs
         | for those feeds, than the RSS feed reader no longer "does what
         | you expect it do and does it well".
         | 
         | At this point the app is fundamentally broken by design and I
         | too would migrate away from such an app.
        
           | slightwinder wrote:
           | I tried this out myself just now, and it turned out to be not
           | entirely true. It's more a case of poor UX. When entering a
           | reddit-url, be it a user-profile or feed, there is a auto-
           | popup with possible actions, one named "feed". Naturally you
           | would click it and then it demands a reddit-connections. I
           | guess, they will use the reddit-API in this case, as it needs
           | a Login, and maybe offers some benefit? But the thing, is you
           | can also just press enter to let feedly discover targets
           | under the entered url, and then it presents you rss-feed it
           | discoverd, which you can follow without a login.
           | 
           | So it's still doing it's job, but in certain cases acts
           | pretty poorly.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | > it well but includes a few prompts here and there for
         | marketing purposes...is that really so bad?
         | 
         | If they are done well, no. Problem is they often aren't. An
         | example of this is when I downloaded some app like headspace
         | and they had this sort of relax and be ready to fall a sleep
         | feature. It was relaxing and well done and turned the screen
         | down nicely. Then, as soon as it was over, the screen was set
         | to bright and it asked if wanted to rate it on the store.
         | 
         | Other apps will show marketing over what you are trying to do,
         | or in a distracting manor.
         | 
         | So after a while people will start to associate it with scummy
         | and bad behavior.
        
         | Gualdrapo wrote:
         | The second, widest menu can be hidden (and keeps hidden) just
         | with a single click.
        
         | applefangirl wrote:
         | I guess it's a matter of opinion because Feedly's interface
         | looks cluttered to me. It's not a bad offender for a webapp but
         | compared to other feed readers its interface is IMO busy.
         | 
         | Also a matter of opinion but app developers IMO shouldn't use
         | their apps to market. I've already got an email app and a Feed
         | reader. If I want to keep up with you I'll subscribe to your
         | mailing list or follow your feed.
         | 
         | I disable auto-update because I get annoyed when apps tell me
         | about new versions (and I have privacy concerns.) I wont
         | consider using an app that doesn't let me disable auto update.
         | I already have a strategy to keep my software up-to-date that
         | works on my schedule.
         | 
         | I recognize I'm sensitive to these things but that doesn't mean
         | they aren't justified or don't make sense. They just don't make
         | sense * to you *.
        
           | bornfreddy wrote:
           | Tangential: if updates bother you, you might want to give
           | NetGuard a try (not affiliated). FOSS, though the pro version
           | license costs $5 iirc. It is a great way to make apps behave
           | nicely - even Firefox is too chatty (telemetry & co.) for my
           | taste. Since updates are often from a different domain, you
           | can just block them. How it works is that all the traffic on
           | the phone is routed through a local (just an app on your
           | phone!) VPN where it can be logged and filtered. Brilliant
           | idea.
           | 
           | As a bonus, it is also very satisfying watching apps try to
           | connect to various ad networks and spy agencies^W^W Google
           | unsuccessfully.
        
             | applefangirl wrote:
             | I use a similiar app on my Mac. It helps me catch poorly
             | behaving apps so I can remove them.
        
       | oliwarner wrote:
       | Yeah, no sympathy with Erik here. Feedly is --for free-- polling
       | RSS feeds for you and giving you centralised, platform agnostic
       | access.
       | 
       | They _want_ you to pay for it, and features like an increased
       | polling rate are the soft features they use to tempt you up to a
       | paid platform. Adverts catch some of the users that don 't want
       | to pay. I assume you still use Google et al? Why is a search
       | engine or Amazon janking up their SERPs with inline ads better
       | than the odd ad on Feedly? You still use them? I think you're
       | holding Feedly to an unfair standard.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, a desktop client is great _iff that 's all
       | you need_. Feedly is providing one more feature: network
       | centralisation. I check Feedly from my desktop, my laptop and my
       | phone. I could host something myself but for free (or pennies a
       | day), Feedly keeps everything in sync.
        
       | m-p-3 wrote:
       | IMO the lowest ad-free tier for Feedly was too expensive for what
       | I'm doing (~6.00$/month) which is basically agregating news from
       | multiple websites for my own personal use, so I migrated to
       | Inoreader and use the Supporter plan (~1.67$/month), which is
       | enough features for me while remaining ad-free.
       | 
       | At that price, I'm okay not having to self-host it to handle the
       | synchronization of articles I've read, liked, etc.
        
       | lf-non wrote:
       | I use a self-hosted yarr [1] instance for rss. It is really
       | minimal and very easy to run (self contained native binary).
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/nkanaev/yarr
        
       | t6jvcereio wrote:
       | Is it known why Google killed reader? Certainly it wasn't lack of
       | traction.
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | They're a business. I would presume they weren't able to make
         | enough, or perhaps any, profit off of it.
        
       | pretdl wrote:
        
       | jollins wrote:
       | This writer is really entitled. It is a free tier for a service
       | that costs money to host and maintain. Of course there are
       | upgrade prompts.
       | 
       | I use Feedly (free) as a hosting service, and Reeder or one of
       | the other many great RSS client apps as the frontend to it, so I
       | don't have to see the feedly interface.But the Feedly API I use
       | constantly and it is extremely solid.
       | 
       | That's part of the greatness of RSS services. If the service's UI
       | bothers you, you don't have to use it.
        
         | andrelaszlo wrote:
         | I see where you come from but I didn't read it that way. They
         | point out why the product no longer fits their needs, and why
         | the paid version is not appealing . The conclusion is the
         | opposite of entitled: I'll use something else.
        
           | DSMan195276 wrote:
           | I think the entitled part is where they wrote a whole rant
           | that basically amounts to "they want me to pay for it" and
           | posted it here.
        
         | prepend wrote:
         | > This writer is really entitled
         | 
         | Yes, but no. They are entitled like you and I, and everyone, is
         | entitled to good products and not being angry when using them.
         | They aren't especially entitled to the point to use the word as
         | an insult.
         | 
         | Feedly sells ads. So it's free, but they include ads. They
         | aren't a charity benevolently putting out the app and everyone
         | should suck it up and be thankful.
         | 
         | Obviously, people can choose not to use it. And they do. Feedly
         | seems to be in a bit of a doom spiral with being worse and
         | worse and driving away more and more users.
         | 
         | It seems to me that they have some expensive to develop but not
         | very useful (eg, AI to detect stuff in feeds) that users don't
         | find worth $6 but the costs need covering. So their approach is
         | to keep pushing it on users more and more.
        
           | Semiapies wrote:
           | _They are entitled like you and I, and everyone, is entitled
           | to good products and not being angry when using them._
           | 
           | Sure, if you're paying for it. If not, prepare for all the
           | ways a company is going to try to make the service
           | profitable, starting with ads and come-ons to paid tiers.
           | 
           | Don't want that? Pay, or self-host something. It's
           | _absolutely_ entitled to make an indignant post about why you
           | 're changing away from a service you've used for nine years
           | that amounts to _the bastards want to make money off me_.
        
             | Adraghast wrote:
             | I don't think it's entitled at all to expect things to _not
             | suck_ regardless of whether they're free or require
             | payment. Truly good products make you want to pay to
             | receive a carrot, bad ones to avoid a stick. The only
             | carrots Feedly has to offer are all moldy and gross, so
             | they've resorted to more and more sticks.
             | 
             | The author also did exactly what you want by switching to
             | NetNewsWire, so I don't know what you're complaining about
             | other than that they made a blog post explaining that
             | decision.
        
               | Semiapies wrote:
               | _Truly good products make you want to pay to receive a
               | carrot, bad ones to avoid a stick._
               | 
               | Except not getting the carrot free _is_ the stick to
               | plenty of people.
               | 
               |  _so I don't know what you're complaining about_
               | 
               | Given I explicitly said what I was complaining about, you
               | _should_ know.
        
             | prepend wrote:
             | It is ad supported, not free. So there's a commercial
             | quality expectation. Am I "entitled" if I don't like a tv
             | show on broadcast tv even though it has ads?
             | 
             | Also, even truly free/oss software has an expectation of
             | quality. And saying "I don't like it and won't use it"
             | isn't being entitled. It's just a normal human response.
             | 
             | If I'm in a museum and look at a painting and remark to my
             | friends "I don't like that painting and I won't buy a
             | print. In fact there are so many paintings in this museum,
             | I don't think I'll return." Am I being entitled?
             | 
             | I think it's pretty authoritarian to call out people
             | expressing reasonable opinions as if they are "entitled."
             | 
             | As a reader I'm happy to know that feedly's free product
             | sucks. That's very helpful to me. I'm glad OP shared their
             | idea and I hope that people gatekeeping won't stop OP and
             | others like them from sharing more useful ideas.
        
         | Ferret7446 wrote:
         | Entitled? Kind of? The thing is, RSS reader clients are pretty
         | much a solved problem, and they aren't particularly resource
         | intensive. You can run your own FreshRSS instance for example
         | for free (https://www.felesatra.moe/blog/2022/06/25/easy-
         | freshrss, you do need a domain name though if you want HTTPS,
         | or just run it on your local machine).
        
           | Kye wrote:
           | A lot of the service they provide is figuring out how to load
           | out of spec or outright broken feeds. They had some blog
           | posts on this back in the early post-Google Reader days. A
           | self-hosted option will eventually fail to load a feed, and
           | there's not much you can do unless you're a developer.
        
         | lbriner wrote:
         | I think that is a bit unfair. Many of us have used something
         | that was originally a certain way and worked and we have let it
         | get embedded and useful at which point it becomes more and more
         | complicated, maybe the upgrade prompts become much more
         | prominent and we feel let down by something that doesn't
         | actually solve the problem any more.
         | 
         | I don't know Feedly's history and whether it was originally
         | Open Source or not but plenty of people decide their popular
         | FOSS tool could be paid-for, at which point it is common to
         | disenfranchise the people who made it popular in the first-
         | place.
        
           | jzb wrote:
           | If you have a problem solved by software, pay for it. They're
           | not a charity. If you're just using without giving back you
           | have zero standing to feel let down. Feedly is a SaaS, not a
           | foss project. They have bills to pay.
        
             | hamdouni wrote:
             | Foss project also have bills to pay.
        
               | Semiapies wrote:
               | People regularly act like asses to them without
               | contributing a cent, either.
        
       | otsaloma wrote:
       | The author complains he couldn't add a Reddit RSS feed. I once
       | looked into this. It was already a few years ago, but I guess it
       | hasn't changed. The problem is that updating all Reddit feeds of
       | all Feedly users goes way above Reddit's API call rate limits.
       | So, it's probably simply not possible in a centralized free
       | service. The problem isn't so much Feedly, but the various sites'
       | (not only Reddit) ignorance or hostility towards RSS that results
       | in these kinds of implementations.
        
         | Uupis wrote:
         | reddit provides RSS feeds: https://www.reddit.com/wiki/rss
        
           | Macha wrote:
           | The parent poster even acknowledged this.
           | 
           | The point is the feed is rate limited.
           | 
           | And you need one call per unique subreddit.
           | 
           | And Feedly's users collectively have more unique subreddits
           | than the Reddit rate limit.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | Strange; I can subscribe to user rss feeds in Newsblur.
             | 
             | I'm guessing Newsblur somehow rotates through all the
             | users' collective RSS feeds in some manner to not trip the
             | rate limit, which might explain why new posts don't show up
             | immediately.
             | 
             | (Which is fine for me as a user; most of the reddit RSS
             | feeds I subscribe to, I don't need to see immediately!)
        
             | Uupis wrote:
             | Ah, my bad. The reference to API made me think they're
             | replicating RSS via the reddit API. I was not aware that
             | RSS feeds are so rate-limited, too.
             | 
             | More on the subject, for anyone curious: https://www.reddit
             | .com/r/help/comments/4u9tj8/rss_feeds_upda...
        
       | gaul wrote:
       | https://tt-rss.org/ is a free software, self-hosted alternative
       | and https://ttrss.info/ is a paid hosted offering.
        
       | pHollda wrote:
        
       | daggersandscars wrote:
       | If you're looking for a cross-Apple-ecosystem reader, News
       | Explorer provides MacOS, iOS, and iPadOS apps and uses iCloud to
       | sync. No affiliation, just like using it.
       | 
       | If you're only following feeds on MacOS, NetNewsWire is also
       | great.
        
         | kenada wrote:
         | NetNewsWire has had an iOS version for a while now.
        
       | uallo wrote:
       | I've been a non-paying Feedly user since Google Reader shut down.
       | I think their nagging is tolerable. I currently see no point in
       | an upgrade as I don't miss any feature.
       | 
       | I've also been a long-time user of Pocket. I would really like
       | them to add feed functionality to their service. It would make it
       | very easy to find new things to read while also having a list of
       | things to read later. That would be a very good value proposition
       | in my opinion, and a reason to pay them.
        
       | divan wrote:
       | To contrast other opinions - I think it's a valuable feedback for
       | the company.
       | 
       | I also stopped using Feedly when realized that it has become
       | something else than "nice minimalistic rss-reader". I settled
       | with NetNewsWire and super happy with it, really incredible piece
       | of software. I wouldn't mind paying some bucks per month for
       | extra features like proxying sites-without-rss or similar stuff
       | (I need to use third-party solutions to add some important sites
       | to rss reader).
       | 
       | So if Feedly wants to build a business around RSS (I couldn't
       | find their vision on the website, so it's a guess), then maybe
       | they just need to listen to those who actually use RSS. I think
       | most of us love RSS for its simplicity, for decentralized nature,
       | for respect to our attention and non-invasiveness into our
       | information consuming patterns. Not much of a business
       | proposition here maybe, but business should be built on top of
       | the real value for users, not the other way around.
        
       | pndy wrote:
       | I've left Feedly at the first sight of premium options few years
       | ago - I wanted to try something new and it worked for a while.
       | But RSS reader in bookmarks (livemarks as Mozilla once called
       | these) is and tbh always was enough for me.
       | 
       | Foxish live RSS does job nicely in Vivaldi.
        
       | cosmiccatnap wrote:
       | Have we really fallen this low? How are there so many people in
       | this comment section defending feedly while berating the author
       | for what I would consider a level headed and fair assessment of
       | the state of it.
       | 
       | As someone hunting constantly for a reader as simple as Google
       | reader and feedly use to be it all makes perfect sense and is
       | equally frustrating to me.
       | 
       | It's an RSS reader that no longer accepts many RSS feeds, that is
       | a more than valid criticism and we should be allowed to be picky
       | about that without being berated by our fellow HN readers.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | HN readers generally put themselves into the vendor's shoes and
         | therefore have a hard time accepting criticism of something the
         | vendor does at their own interest at the expense of the user's.
        
       | stereoradonc wrote:
       | Try Inoreader. Besides a bevy of rich feature set, Inoreader has
       | sales ONLY on Black Friday, and they usually extend the service
       | by an additional 6 months if you pay yearly. It lacks Feedly's
       | stupid UI. It's functional, fast, and I can zip through hundreds
       | of feeds in no time. My favourite is the IFTTT and Readwise
       | integration baked in. Alternatively, you can have the complete
       | experience in Vivaldi itself. It comes with the RSS reader and a
       | mail client. Absolute DOPE! Inoreader allows you to keep track of
       | specific keywords and automatically follow the RSS feeds. I am
       | waiting for a better UI around Vivaldi's RSS reader, and will
       | reevaluate my RSS reader needs close to the end of the
       | subscription period.
        
         | roldie wrote:
         | Another shoutout for Inoreader. Been using it for years. The
         | free tier is great, but the paid tier is seriously one of the
         | best investments I've ever made
        
         | 369548684892826 wrote:
         | And the ad-free tier is much better value than Feedly, like one
         | quarter of the price even if you don't do the Black Friday
         | thing.
        
       | educaysean wrote:
       | This article is music to my ears. As a Feedly user of 6+ years,
       | it's everything that I've felt and more. Thanks for putting into
       | words the frustration that's been building up inside me for a
       | while.
        
       | thrdbndndn wrote:
       | I've tried all the free services listed in this thread, and
       | feedly is the best for me. I'd admit I never really like it's UI,
       | but it's usable. And it didn't change much all these years.
       | 
       | Nowadays, I meanly just use the extension "Feedly Notifier" [1]
       | to read (or open directly) articles in my browser, so I barely
       | open feedly.com anymore. I highly recommend it.
       | 
       | [1] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/feedly-
       | notifier/eg...
        
       | stanislavb wrote:
       | Have you tried lenns.io? I have a feeling it will meet your
       | needs.
        
       | simonebrunozzi wrote:
       | Do you think there's an opportunity for a new RSS reader to
       | emerge? And be financially successful, without the BS of ads,
       | etc?
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | No.
        
         | cosmiccatnap wrote:
         | An open source RSS reader could easily be someone's weekend
         | project...
        
           | Semiapies wrote:
           | And probably has been many times, given how many there are.
        
       | PascLeRasc wrote:
       | Off topic but while all the RSS people are here - does anyone
       | know of a client or feed that can extract articles from websites
       | that try to stop you from using RSS? Bikepacking.com is an
       | example of this.
        
       | elcapitan wrote:
       | I left Feedly for the same reason a while ago. I think there is a
       | trend of "editorialization" of all kinds of apps that tries to
       | sell new features and "experiences" to users instead of focusing
       | on the core ideas, which I find really annoying. Plus the Feedly
       | UI itself is annoying and doesn't give me a simple mailbox-like
       | view like normal RSS readers.
       | 
       | The solution I went with is native RSS readers (like the author),
       | but backed by an Open Reader server (The Old Reader in my case,
       | but there are others) for syncing between devices. On the Mac,
       | Vienna as a client is quite nice.
        
       | elyseum wrote:
       | So you liked Feedly for almost 10 years, but never bothered to
       | support them financially. And now you complain that they go the
       | extra mile trying to earn money?
        
         | motoxpro wrote:
         | Exactly. It's so comical. You were never going to support them
         | making their software, never going to upgrade, never going to
         | provide any value to them in anyway even though they provided
         | value to you for 10 years. Seems like this is a good thing for
         | feedly.
        
           | wahnfrieden wrote:
           | for apparently nonsense features. this isn't a patronage
           | model, it's a product (and the free tier is not what's being
           | sold)
        
           | aflag wrote:
           | The author acknowledged that though. He seemed to even had
           | considered buying it, but thought it was not worth it. He
           | eventually settled on something simple and free. It doesn't
           | surprise me that running a simple RSS feed tool is not
           | profitable.
        
             | simonw wrote:
             | There is very little simple about running an RSS
             | aggregator, especially at scale.
        
               | aflag wrote:
               | The user doesn't really care about the scale, though.
               | There are chrome plugins, local apps, etc. With dropbox
               | and other similar tools, you can sync across devices and
               | keep configuration stored in the cloud without much
               | hassle.
               | 
               | I'm not saying that what feedly was doing was trivial.
               | I'm sure it was expensive and required many developers,
               | designers, etc. However, that doesn't mean that all the
               | effort is necessarily important for the end user.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | I run one at scale, it doesn't need to be done in a
               | complicated way
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | What I'm saying is by running so many heavy services in
               | the backend, relying on a series of API integrations to
               | provide service and taking custody of swaths of sometimes
               | sensitive user data, they make their own problems
        
       | poisonborz wrote:
       | You can use Feedly simply as a cloud service to store your RSS
       | subscriptions. There's a number of good clients that use it and
       | display a simple feed that you want. For Android, there is
       | FeedMe.
        
       | rryan wrote:
       | "I could go pro, but nah" -- I read this and closed the tab. What
       | a whingefest from a free tier user.
       | 
       | The Reddit crawling problem is because Reddit rate limits their
       | crawling so they have to prioritize the most popular feeds.
       | What's the problem with linking your account, or making a
       | dedicated feedly throwaway for crawling?
       | 
       | Been a pro user since the beginning because I want the service to
       | stick around. It works just as well as it always has and I don't
       | mind that they're adding new features even if they aren't for me.
       | 
       | Sheesh.
        
       | benrapscallion wrote:
       | I pay for NewsBlur and have been doing so for years. It is an
       | underappreciated, excellent, fully-featured, indie RSS feed
       | reader with support for twitter and youtube etc. It can extract
       | full text from feeds. It can both receive emails (newsletters)
       | and send emails (when a feed updates). They have an excellent
       | free tier.
       | 
       | I have tried every other competitor and no one comes close.
        
       | cnxsoft wrote:
        
       | Daunk wrote:
       | RSS is something I really want to use, but so far I've not been
       | able to find a single piece of software that handles RSS that
       | doesn't suck. I want to add a bunch of RSS feeds, and then have
       | the software notify me - or at least highlight - when related
       | "tags" or words are used, as well as be able to see "everything".
       | But I guess RSS is about to die out anyways, as more and more
       | news sites only allow you to read the first few lines of an
       | article before having to visit their site.
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | I started using liferea a few months ago, primarily to track YT
         | channels without YT (so to speak). It can do some version of
         | everything you've mentioned, though is weak on the automatic
         | tag notification thing (though for the feeds I follow, that
         | makes sense, since they are mostly video).
        
           | Daunk wrote:
           | Cheers, I'll give it a go.
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | I moved to InoReader after the Google Reader cull and must say
       | it's been pretty consistent in quality. I usually pick up a good
       | deal around Thanksgiving.
        
       | nXqd wrote:
       | Reading through the article, Feedly might just have a classic,
       | fast version without any new features and charge users for it.
       | 
       | And those who wants new fancy things can enjoy the fancy version.
       | And I believe, there are many users who just want fast and simple
       | software these days, and early version of feedly was a great
       | example.
        
       | microflash wrote:
       | After several years of using Feedly, I stopped using it right
       | when they started showing ads in the feed. My biggest complaint
       | with their Pro offering was that it was extremely unbalanced for
       | the personal use (it still is).
       | 
       | As a Pro user, I wanted to cut down the amount of noise I was
       | getting in the feed. But that feature was in Pro+ subscription. I
       | wanted to subscribe to a few Twitter searches; again a Pro+
       | feature. I wanted to get rid of duplicate posts and it was, you
       | guessed it, a Pro+ feature. Meanwhile, the Pro offering was
       | flooded with things that never mattered to me.
       | 
       | In the end, Pro was simply not a good value for me and Pro+ was
       | just too expensive.
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | I have been using Reeder for years now, I use it also for read it
       | later integrated with Pocket. I love the latest update because I
       | get to set the fonts to San Francisco Rounded which is one of my
       | favorite fonts.
        
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