[HN Gopher] Google's Android Automotive OS is coming to BMW cars...
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Google's Android Automotive OS is coming to BMW cars next year
Author : ra7
Score : 55 points
Date : 2022-07-01 18:01 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| slotrans wrote:
| Ugh. The iDrive system in my 2013 F30 is juuuuuuust right. Easy
| to use, thoughtfully laid out, good mix of on-screen menus and
| tactile buttons / the jog wheel. The newer cars have
| touchscreens, which is a big step back, but thankfully you don't
| have to use them. (I heard they were recently removed from some
| cars due to supply chain issues.) There's just _no way_ that
| Android is better.
|
| I love my car, and the experience of driving and owning it has
| made me want to be a BMW customer for life. But if they ruin in
| it with this crap, I'll be looking elsewhere.
| delusional wrote:
| I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's simple
| and to the point. I don't have any major complaints after it
| stopped crashing like it did for the first month i owned it (I
| have no idea why it stopped).
|
| I'd really like car manufacturers to let me run whatever i want
| on it though. It's just a Linux box and since you can reboot it
| while driving the car, i know it's not safety critical. It
| would be cool if I could just load on a standard executable in
| whatever machine code it runs and make my own apps.
| natebc wrote:
| > I'm largely ok with the infotainment in my Mazda. It's
| simple and to the point. I don't have any major complaints
| after it stopped crashing like it did for the first month i
| owned it (I have no idea why it stopped).
|
| You didn't happen to listen to 99% invisible did you[1]? IIRC
| there were also some FM stations that had RDS issues which
| triggered a similar problem in mazdas infotaiment.
|
| 1. https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-roman-mars-
| mazda-...
| antiterra wrote:
| Have a '15 F30 and a '22 G80. Nothing is better on the F30 and
| often touchscreen is really convenient compared to the puck.
| saidinesh5 wrote:
| I suspect it is cheaper these days to get Android devs than
| Qt/C++/Embedded Linux devs and can't help wonder if this is their
| big cost cutting decision.
|
| I wonder what this means for their Qt/QML teams and a lot of
| their middleware from Genivi: https://www.genivi.org/
| (Interestingly, the website seems to be down for me).
| miohtama wrote:
| Also BMW is indirectly admitting that their in-house software
| development sucks, they underinvested in it for many yeears and
| now they need to buy the core from Google to stay competitive.
| If it is only about Java development then they could write
| their own platform in Java.
| mrkramer wrote:
| I think they are afraid that Google's software will become an
| industry standard and that they will be left out. They are in
| the position where they need to make a bet and that bet will
| determine how the next decade of business will look like for
| them.
| miohtama wrote:
| If the best product wins then Google's is likely to become
| industry standard. Android Auto is not panacea, but no
| European or Asian company has shown any talent to build
| high quality software in scale. Only US/Silicon Valley
| companies can do this. And this is not just about cars -
| it's also the same for mobile phones, etc.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Just to be clear. The article is about "Android
| Automotive" a self contained OS built into the car.
| Android Auto is basically a display that requires an
| Android phone to operate.
| [deleted]
| mrkramer wrote:
| Android Auto, Android Automotive, CarPlay and cars' own operating
| systems all in the mix?! Not standardized, not compatible apps
| etc. Somebody needs to standardize this just like Gates said back
| in the day for PCs.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Standardization is nice, but so is competition. Notably,
| Windows got _really_ sucky in the first decade of the
| millennium XP and Vista and competition from Apple 's Mac
| forced Windows to improve (7+).
|
| Personally, I'm somewhat worried about the "planned
| obsolescence" effect that these smart infotainment systems have
| on cars. Will it put pressure on consumers to upgrade their
| cars every few years as we do with phones, lest our
| infotainment system fall out of support? Will we as a society
| end up discarding otherwise perfectly good cars because the
| infotainment system is well out of date?
| crooked-v wrote:
| Existing infotainment systems are already almost immediately
| obsolete. At least with Apple Carplay or Android Auto you
| don't actually have to use them for most purposes, as long as
| the car manufacturer didn't take the user-hating move of
| making climate controls entirely infotainment-based.
| bluGill wrote:
| I don't use my car's infotainment. The maps are 10 years out
| of date, though it will sometimes still get me places.
| However even in the best case of up to date, the maps on my
| phone get updated with the latest road closures as they
| happen, and infotainment doesn't.
|
| All I need is a Bluetooth connection, and fortunately my
| latest phones still connect via Bluetooth to my 10 year old
| car. Doesn't connect to me 20 year old car - but that never
| had bluetooth, so while I'm annoyed I can't complain.
| nicce wrote:
| Windows had too long period of time without proper
| competition and we can now see it in the stalled development.
| dmix wrote:
| Off topic but Now that cars are running Android and are getting
| bigger screens I wonder if Xbox cloud will start being deployed
| to cars the way Tesla has done with games.
|
| You can already play games on Nvidia shields and $50 Firesticks
| (also technically chromecasts but comments say it's laggy).
|
| https://youtu.be/30Ytq2hPo3M
|
| I've played Fallout 4 with 5G + an Xbox controller on my iphone a
| few times so I'm sure it's possible.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| Definitely possible... my kids play their console on the back
| screens in our minivan. There's a standard outlet to power the
| game system and an HDMI port for the screens. We've never used
| it for gaming, but there is a wifi access point built in to the
| vehicle too.
| quartz wrote:
| Volvo recently switched to Android Auto from their own Sensus
| system and I originally thought was going to be great considering
| Sensus was never anything special...
|
| Instead it has been a mess with Carplay support coming _soon_ for
| something like a year now[1]. I 'm not sure if Android auto is
| explicitly sold as "ship it half-done, you can always push
| updates!" or if that just happened with Volvo, but it has really
| turned me off from the platform.
|
| [1] https://www.swedespeed.com/threads/22-xc60-no-apple-
| carplay....
| yegle wrote:
| Version 2.2 (this is on mid-2022 XC60) release note announced
| Car Play support. But they retract the release on 06/27 and the
| release is no longer visible from their release page.
| smcleod wrote:
| Misleading / Clickbait title, BMW aren't switching to Android -
| they're just offering Android auto as they do Apple CarPlay.
|
| Better reporting at
| https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto...
|
| @mods
| dang wrote:
| Ok, we've switched to that article from
| https://www.androidpolice.com/bmw-android-automotive/. Thanks!
|
| p.s. "@mods" is a no-op. I only saw this completely randomly.
| If you want deterministic message delivery, please contact us
| via hn@ycombinator.com.
| sschueller wrote:
| "some of its future models would run on a next-gen version of its
| in-house operating system built on top of Android Automotive.
| It's a big change from previous Linux-based versions, though the
| company says some of its cars will stay on its legacy build."
|
| Seems a lot more limited than the title hints at. Is the word
| legacy from BMW? They may continue to improve the Linux version
| so I would not call it legacy until it gets fazed out.
| izacus wrote:
| Most car companies don't "continue to improve" their software
| and that's probably what will happen here - they'll just stop
| updating those head units and leave them behind.
| bluGill wrote:
| That isn't quite right. Most companies continue to improve
| software, they just don't release updates. They fix minor
| bugs and add new features, but you can't get at that without
| buying a new car as they don't provide means to do updates.
| (major bugs trigger a recall, sometimes everyone gets the
| latest, sometimes they apply the fix to each branch)
|
| They might use the same hardware for 20 years (in that time
| at least a few parts will go obsolete to be replaced with
| something functionally identical), but if yours breaks you
| will get that hardware with the version of software released
| for your car even though the software from a later model year
| would run on the same computer and have more features.
|
| Note that just because the software will run doesn't mean the
| system will. Sometimes they change network interfaces in
| incompatible ways so the whole car will not work in some way
| which could be major or minor depending.
| cstejerean wrote:
| When was that? Right now all 3 of my cars provide over the
| air software updates, because all 3 have cellular modems
| for things like remote lock/unlock or remote start. Even
| before this the previous generation Dodge I had could be
| software updated via a USB stick.
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| Out of the frying pan, into the fire...
| haloboy777 wrote:
| Does anyone know whether they will be compatible with iOS?
| wmf wrote:
| Yes, it does support CarPlay.
| dhruvrrp wrote:
| From what I've seen Volvo has it isn't like Apple Carplay or
| Android Auto. Rather it's a self contained android device
| t3rabytes wrote:
| Yes, but Volvo/Polestar have just started the OTAs to add
| CarPlay support.
| TetOn wrote:
| Correct. Poorly named, but Android Automotive is the
| equivalent of the iDrive software that runs in the BMW center
| panel (in the absence of any other user device)...CarPlay or
| Android Auto could still overlay that assuming the carmaker
| supports it.
| _the_inflator wrote:
| Ok, same goes for Mercedes I suppose. They are working on a own
| "operating system" as well.
|
| I read my "Tanenbaum" and this move makes sense for a company,
| that has few merit in software development.
| eps wrote:
| Electric Volvo is full in already. As is Polestar... which is
| super unfortunate because the hardware is actually quite
| excellent.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| Germany keeps making poor choices
|
| They'll pay the price in the next decade by becoming irrelevant
|
| They should have fired all their software engineers, they are
| definitely incapable of making fast, smooth, and usable
| interfaces
|
| Using android = they give up, and worse, they embrace the bloat
|
| Now you need even more expensive chips to power the bloat
|
| Congrats to whoever clueless dude is now the manager
|
| Glad i don't own a car, and glad i will never purchase one of
| their cars
| [deleted]
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| I see it as a no-brainer. To phrase it differently, what
| exactly is the added value BMW can provide over a Google/Apple
| infotainment system?
|
| They need to focus on transitioning to EVs, there's no point in
| wasting energy on building and maintaining an infotainment
| system when a good out of the box option exists.
|
| Later once they pulled off the EV transition if they want they
| can fork android and go from there.
| hedora wrote:
| Have you driven a BMW that came out in the last 5-10 years?
|
| In addition to having been selling EVs for years, their UIs
| are amazing. They're far ahead of the junky android auto (and
| first party) implementations I've seen from other
| manufacturers:
|
| - No touchscreen; just a jog wheel
|
| - Bluetooth "browse" works great. I can tune podcasts, global
| radio stations and my music collection by feel.
|
| - The map's eco mode routes based on the power train
| consumption profile of your car.
|
| - "Send map address from phone to car" just works.
|
| - "Idiot light" stuff is intuitive (e.g., resetting the TPM
| after filling the tires; knowing when service / inspection is
| due, etc, etc.)
|
| - Did I mention no touch screen? This is important if you
| plan to drive the car while the computer is turned on.
|
| On top of all that, it does a great job of getting out of the
| way and letting you focus on the road.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| Can't say I have, but I am guessing most new buyers are
| looking for that "techy" big touchscreen experience (even
| if it does provide a worse UX) so I'm not sure BMW has much
| of a choice (but I have read zero market research)
|
| Also, it's confusing but Android Automotive != Android
| Auto, it's actually a different system and one which seems
| to be getting good reviews (but ymmv)
| pluc wrote:
| So BMW is switching from a Linux distro to a Linux distro
| Rhedox wrote:
| Android is not really a Linux distro in the usual sense. It
| only ships the kernel and none of the GNU userspace components
| that a typical Linux distro has.
| bamboozled wrote:
| Still sounds like a distribution of Linux , aka it's running
| Linux.
| IshKebab wrote:
| That's not what people mean when they say "Linux distro".
| bonzini wrote:
| So... it's Linux but not GNU/Linux?
| pjmlp wrote:
| BWM naturally owns the whole stack, however in what app
| developers are concerned, nothing Linux related is part of
| stable API surface of the NDK.
|
| Trying to use them might get an app killed.
|
| Of course on what concerns BMW/Android it is a different
| matter.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Linux kernel, a _very_ minimal userland, the Android VM on
| top of that.
|
| Android is arguably on a path to becoming a dominant if not
| the dominant embedded system for consumer devices. I don't
| say this with any joy whatsoever.
| nicce wrote:
| Android is dying. Chine companies have made their own OS
| to replace it. Google is bringing Fuchsia to replace
| Linux kernel to get total dominance over stack. List goes
| on.
| Alupis wrote:
| If this[1] is what "dying" looks like, then it's not so
| bad.
|
| Android still accounts for over 72% mobile OS market
| share, with iOS far behind in second place at a mere 27%,
| and everything else is trivially insignificant.
|
| [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-
| share/mobile/worldwide/...
| dredmorbius wrote:
| I'd be happy to see Android die.
|
| I'm not sure Fuchsia or a Chinese alternative is what I'd
| prefer in its place.
| staringback wrote:
| kube-system wrote:
| I feel somewhat vindicated knowing that even big companies have
| the same distro-hopping problem that I have on my own machines.
| Animats wrote:
| Do you have to have a Google account to drive?
| k8sToGo wrote:
| No but you have to watch a 30 second ad first.
| iasay wrote:
| Aw your car was suspended for abuse? Follow the FAQ link which
| turns into a recursive hell hole with no one powerful enough to
| help you when you eventually stumble on a human.
| crooked-v wrote:
| Dystopic action-comedy potential: a White House Down style
| thriller, except one of the key plot points is the villains
| immobilizing the fleet of Presidential vehicles by getting
| their Google accounts banned with fake copyright claims.
| ra7 wrote:
| No, you don't have to. Android Automotive is the base OS.
| Manufacturers can opt in to offer Google Automotive Services
| (GAS) which are a bunch of Google apps on top, which you do
| need to sign in to use.
| flashfabrixx wrote:
| The title is misleading as BMW will introduce Android Automotive
| as a second platform - not fully switch to it.
|
| > "The company plans to develop their BMW Operating System 8
| infotainment software using Android Automotive for some vehicle
| models beginning in March 2023 but also maintain the current
| Linux-based version for others."
| https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/30/23189642/bmw-android-auto...
| amelius wrote:
| I noticed lately that Android changed the UI of my Clock/Timer
| app without asking me, and it looks worse, not better. Plus it
| confused me when I was confronted with the change.
|
| So future car owners, beware.
| dsr_ wrote:
| Semi-related whining: I don't want the car to run apps. I don't
| want it OTA-upgradable. I want the car to have all of its own
| instruments and essential functions tucked away, and to offer an
| interface for it to
|
| * send demands (mix down the music to zero and bring up my
| channel, there's an emergency)
|
| * respond to information requests (Battery is at 55.31%, no
| systems have errors, headlights are on, speed is 45.8mph)
|
| * and let my computer request non-critical things (please turn on
| the seat heaters, set the HVAC to recirculate medium, set
| thermostat to 68F)
|
| Keep the security and safety things far away from the shiny user
| interface things, and let me replace the user interface things
| every few years instead of replacing the car.
| brianwawok wrote:
| On the other hand, I want a Tesla with a sweet app and sweet
| cruise control.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| This! "Smart" TVs are already a dumb idea because the "smart'
| piece will be outdated long before the rest of the device, but
| a car...?! I want to drive my car for ~15 years. All the
| "smart" stuff will be long outdated.
| scarface74 wrote:
| CarPlay and Android Auto are basically just dumb terminals to
| the phone. It's easy to keep those compatible. The cars that
| supported the iPod USB protocol in 2005 still work today with
| modern iPhones.
|
| Yes I know that Android Automative is different than Android
| Auto.
| iasay wrote:
| I'd hate to own a 10 year old car with Android Automotive in
| it...
|
| It'll be weird when there is a market for dumb cars.
| chiph wrote:
| Well, the only good thing is that Google Maps will likely
| continue to run. My DVD based system had it's last update ever
| in 2015, so it will occasionally show me driving "off road"
| where the map database doesn't have street info. But then the
| cellphone companies could retire 4G data service at some point
| (like how 3G just shut down in February) and you won't be able
| to use it at all.
| iasay wrote:
| My car just has a BT receiver. My phone is my nav and in car
| entertainment system thus saving that entire problem of
| obsolescence.
| Alupis wrote:
| I'm not really sure it's any worse than what we had before. My
| Ford's entertainment system (pre-Android Auto) hasn't received
| an update since it was about 1 year old and in the dealership
| for a warranty service.
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