[HN Gopher] Uzi Nissan (nissan.com) died of covid July 2020 and ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Uzi Nissan (nissan.com) died of covid July 2020 and the website is
       now down
        
       Author : bmcahren
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2022-07-01 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nissan.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nissan.com)
        
       | sorokod wrote:
       | Nisan is relatively common Hebrew name from the month of Nisan
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisan
        
       | VoidWhisperer wrote:
       | While the content of the website appears to be down now,
       | according to the whois[1], the website registration itself with
       | it being registered to Nissan Computer Corp. does not expire
       | until 2024.
       | 
       | [1]: https://who.is/whois/nissan.com
        
         | branon wrote:
         | Is it known who will renew the domain? Nice legacy for the guy.
        
           | malux85 wrote:
           | We should try and find out who is managing his estate, let's
           | get it renewed the maximum duration, just to annoy Nissan
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | I'd be up to contribute some funds to have a $5 DO droplet
             | serving the website for some time as well. I'll start by
             | committing to one year of hosting ($60). I'll never buy a
             | Nissan because of their actions against nissan.com, but
             | somehow it doesn't always feel like enough.
        
               | nrmitchi wrote:
               | Probably not even necessary to do that much. Point it at
               | Cloudflare backed by an S3 bucket with a single "in
               | memorandum" page and host it until the end of technology
               | as we know it for ~$1.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | I've learnt my lesson to depend as little as possible on
               | vendors with specific technologies when you want to keep
               | something alive for a long, long time. The less reliance
               | on specific closed-source & cloud technologies, the
               | better.
        
               | nrmitchi wrote:
               | In this case S3 is just a _thing_ that can serve a static
               | HTML page, which I 'm not sure I would consider
               | proprietary in any way, and Cloudflare is just a way to
               | serve it basically for free.
               | 
               | This isn't anything that has proprietary risk of not
               | being supportable/migratable if necessary.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I don't care what happens to NISSAN.COM, as long as it does not
       | fall to Nissan Motors. Ideally, someone should restore it from
       | the last good snapshot and ask for donations to renew the domain
       | on a regular basis. I would be happy to contribute to this
       | effort.
        
       | bmcahren wrote:
       | I was discussing trademarks and domains with somebody today and
       | tried to show them my favorite long-standing trademark dispute
       | nissan.com but it appears all of the website content has been
       | taken down in May 2022.
       | 
       | Here's one of the last standing copies:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220406221134/https://nissan.co...
       | 
       | Oh, and digest.com where he told is lawsuit story is now for sale
       | (http://digest.com/)
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220402233023/https://digest.co...
        
         | giobox wrote:
         | The UDRP ("Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy" - the
         | arbitration process all domain name disputes go through - you
         | have little choice as mandated by ICANN for all domain name
         | registrars) has been hopelessly broken in favor of the pursuer
         | for a long time. It's a pursuer pays system; surprise surprise
         | pursuers almost always win. UDRP panels are run by private
         | firms of typically retired judges looking to cash in for easy
         | work, selected by WIPO ("World Intellectual Property
         | Organisation") . WIPO love the UDRP, because for the first time
         | its given them real teeth to enforce something directly.
         | Similarly, if you don't respond to a UDRP notification the case
         | is almost always decided against you and you lose control of
         | the domain, regardless of the merits of the case.
         | 
         | If you want to look up some really terrible UDRP decisions
         | regarding things that can't typically be trademarked under
         | almost all legal systems (place and family names etc), the
         | barcelona.com case is pretty famous. Same too with
         | mcdonalds.com. Nissan.com is just another example sadly.
         | 
         | There have even been UDRP cases where the panel has claimed
         | using WHOIS anonymization was an "act of bad faith" and handed
         | the domain to the pursuer. It's a wild system.
         | 
         | > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/help/dndr/udrp-en
         | 
         | > https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/policy-2012-02-25-en
        
           | creeble wrote:
           | >Nissan.com is just another example sadly.
           | 
           | Example of what? The car company never won a UDRP case
           | against Mr Nissan.
        
             | giobox wrote:
             | Example of litigating over something that can't typically
             | be trademarked - "Nissan" is a family name. There are
             | plenty of articles online discussing the nissan.com case
             | from the UDRP perspective, which is the typical remedy, and
             | one Nissan can still pursue - you can't escape the UDRP due
             | to the ICANN mandate.
        
               | creeble wrote:
               | Ford, Chrysler, Bloomberg - I'm not sure what you mean by
               | "can't typically be trademarked".
               | 
               | If Nissan Motors believed they could win via UDRP, why
               | haven't they?
        
               | giobox wrote:
               | Mr Nissan's hand is rather strengthened when he can show
               | the UDRP panel he won a similar case in a US court of
               | law, which might take the wind out the sails on the
               | Nissan Motors side. For what its worth, the WIPO
               | databases show plenty of other UDRP claims from Nissan
               | Motors.
               | 
               | > I'm not sure what you mean by "can't typically be
               | trademarked".
               | 
               | I mean exactly that - under most trademark law systems,
               | you cant typically trademark a family name. I say
               | typically because like everything there are exceptions.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | What's odd is that the domain was renewed just 2 months ago
       | (April 6th).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | chiph wrote:
       | Uzi was my ISP when I had ADSL in Raleigh and was a pleasure to
       | work with when I had issues with BellSouth's service. I was sorry
       | to hear about his death.
       | 
       | The website was up just the other month, so this is a new
       | development by his family/heirs.
       | 
       | That Nissan Motors didn't immediately grab the domain after his
       | passing may be evidence that domain names are an inheritable
       | asset? Any lawyers have info on this?
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | Uzi battled Nissan motor company because the company thought they
       | had the right to take the domain from a man who had registered it
       | because it's his surname. Nissan Motors should have been slapped
       | with a massive punitive fine for that, but instead they continued
       | to bleed Mr. Uzi Nissan of his resources by suing him repeatedly.
       | 
       | Memo to Nissan Motor Company: it was because of this act of
       | lawfare that I personally renounced ever buying a Nissan again
       | (even though the Altima and Maxima were excellent cars). You
       | deserve to be punished for your actions. I regret that refusing
       | to give you my business isn't worth more.
        
         | anonymousiam wrote:
         | Reminds me of the Frys.com saga:
         | https://phoneboy.com/pig/rant/fryscom
        
         | angst_ridden wrote:
         | It wasn't just his surname. It was his company name, too, and a
         | trademark.
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | [edit: I stand corrected; Mr. Nissan conducted business at
         | nissan.com]
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Uzi Nissan ran an IT services consultancy for 30 years, so it
           | was actually a commercial website on the .com TLD.
        
         | jweir wrote:
         | One of the earliest bits of net activism was Etoy - a Swiss art
         | collective vs Etoys - a US online toy reseller.
         | 
         | Etoys got a US judge to seize the etoy.com domain name.
         | 
         | Etoy launched back with Toy War. A gamified activist platform
         | were participants could earn points by attacking Etoys.
         | 
         | https://etoy.com/projects/toywar/
        
         | all2 wrote:
         | This moral position transcends time. Don't equate dollars to
         | the actual value of your actions. Your heart is well set
         | against evil.
        
         | Kaytaro wrote:
         | Should domains be first come first serve though? Why?
         | 
         | Almost 100% of people when they hear "Nissan" think of the car
         | company, so why should that domain direct to some random guy
         | who happened to claim it first?
        
           | briffle wrote:
           | Right, but then does McDonalds the burger place get priority,
           | or McDonalds Plumbing, which has been in business longer than
           | the restraunt has existed?
           | 
           | An Even better example is what if Apple Music had registered
           | Apple.com first? At the time, many, many more people had
           | heard of the beatles then computer company in California.
        
           | bluehatbrit wrote:
           | Why should corporations have more of a claim to property or
           | resources than individuals, just because more people know of
           | them? If they were exercising phishing attacks then fair
           | enough, but if they had a personal website of some sort on
           | there, why the hell should a company get it just because they
           | have the same name?
        
             | Kaytaro wrote:
             | Because domains pointing to where you'd expect just makes
             | the internet a better place. It reduces dependency on
             | search engines, makes the internet simpler to use, and
             | ideally you could be confident that nissan.com isn't some
             | Joe Blow but a trusted company.
             | 
             | What benefit does "first come first serve" provide? Nothing
             | other than allowing individuals to hijack widespread
             | brands.
        
               | givemeethekeys wrote:
               | Sir, I'd like to introduce you to the concept of property
               | rights.
               | 
               | God, I'm glad I don't live in a hell hole where someone
               | who is trying to make the world a better place can just
               | trample over me.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | Yes they should, why not?
        
           | LightG wrote:
           | You f@cking idiota ...
        
           | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
           | Isn't first come first served already the default?
           | 
           | Which leads to scalpers trying to buy out brand names ahead
           | of the corporations so they'll be offered money for them
           | later?
        
           | CogitoCogito wrote:
           | Why is it a problem for the car company if some guy named
           | Nissan has a website? They can simply choose a different
           | domain.
        
           | GTP wrote:
           | True, but then you can't register a domain under your name
           | because it happens to exist a company with the same name? I
           | understand trying to prevent people form registering domains
           | they don't have anything to do with just because they're
           | looking to sell them for a high price to somebody that has
           | actually an use for them, but I'm against the idea of
           | extending this to the case of people registering their own
           | name.
        
         | codegeek wrote:
         | I agree with you but honestly if it was another person named
         | Toyota who purchased toyota.com, they would definitely be
         | pursued/sued by Toyota as well. Large Corporations are powerful
         | and will do everything they can to get what they want. It just
         | happens to be Nissan in this case. So I wouldn't treat them any
         | different than the others to be honest.
        
           | elromulous wrote:
           | For folks who haven't read the whole story, the issue Uzi
           | took with them was that they never even made him an offer to
           | buy it, they jumped straight to litigation. He said he would
           | have sold it to them for a reasonable price had they not
           | chosen litigation as their first approach.
        
           | somenewaccount1 wrote:
           | not necessarily at all. A rational company would have offered
           | a sum that to them was minuscule part of advertising budget,
           | but a fortune for a single person.
           | 
           | My understanding was that Nissan hadn't even made an offer
           | before suing him for 10M, at least that is how the story
           | goes. They probably could have just offered him a million, or
           | 10, and everyone is happy. Being they are a "large"
           | corporation and all.
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | >Large Corporations are powerful and will do everything they
           | can to get what they want.
           | 
           | Valve, despite controlling something like 80% of PC game
           | sales, hasn't gone after the owner guy who owns steam.com
        
             | jdironman wrote:
             | Exactly, it should be a best effort thing not harassment.
             | I'm sure they are probably monitoring its availability no
             | doubt.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | I'm not sure Valve would be considered "large corporation",
             | at least at this point. Last time I checked, they had
             | something like 300 employees. I'm not sure where the line
             | would be for me to consider something a "large
             | corporation", but at least 10000 would be my first guess.
        
               | greenthrow wrote:
               | Number of employees is irrelevant here. Revenue, profit,
               | holdings, these are what is relevant to the issue at
               | hand. On those measures, Valve is enormous.
        
               | ganoushoreilly wrote:
               | I think billion dollar valuations would suffice to be
               | "large corporation" to me. Valve meets that.
        
               | mywittyname wrote:
               | Valve has to be worth way more than a billion dollars. A
               | billion is like medium-stage startup at this point. They
               | have to be worth 10x that easy, as a floor. Much higher
               | (100x) for a strategic acquisition from a company like
               | Microsoft.
        
               | samtheprogram wrote:
               | "Much higher (100x) for a strategic acquisition from a
               | company like Microsoft" is grossly exaggerated. There
               | were only 171 companies worth more than $88.3bn (<100x a
               | billion) as of December [1], a number that may have even
               | dropped during current market conditions. Activision
               | Blizzard is worth today ~$60bn and Microsoft is buying it
               | at ~$68bn [2]. It's one the largest acquisitions they've
               | made, and the largest publicly known amount by far [3]
               | with LinkedIn (2016) second at $26bn.
               | 
               | Agree that Valve is likely worth at least 10x a billion,
               | though.
               | 
               | [1]: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/A-tale-
               | of-2-markets... [2]:
               | https://news.microsoft.com/2022/01/18/microsoft-to-
               | acquire-a... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m
               | ergers_and_acquisitio...
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Interesting, I've never considered the
               | value/valuation/profits to be a part of what makes a
               | corporation large or not, but mainly focused on just the
               | size of the organization. So a corporation could go from
               | small -> medium -> large without even changing the
               | headcount?
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | It's about the amount of power and influence you can
               | wield. In a discussion like this, "large corporation" is
               | just a shorthand. When it comes to the legal system
               | everyone _should_ be on equally footing. That they aren
               | 't is why these things are so upsetting.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | In Germany Nissan Motors would have got the domain.
           | 
           | According to german law "A private person with that name had
           | priority over someone not called that. A company of that
           | name, or a company with a registered trademark has precedence
           | over a person of that name. A city or municipality has the
           | highest precedence"
        
             | askvictor wrote:
             | It's easy to forget that the com in .com is a shortening
             | 'commercial' - i.e. a commercial enterprise. In Australia,
             | (until relatively recently I think), a .com.au domain was
             | restricted to registered businesses. For individuals, there
             | is (was?) an id.au domain.
        
           | pcthrowaway wrote:
           | It's customary even for BigCos to make an offer to buy the
           | domain first.
           | 
           | It's entirely possible the registrant of a toyota.com (if
           | Toyota the company didn't get it first) would have been made
           | an offer for the domain that would have been easy to accept.
           | Nissan (the owner of nissan.com) was never made a fair offer
           | for his domain.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | > Large Corporations are powerful and will do everything they
           | can to get what they want.
           | 
           | In the scheme of ethical philosophy there is, pretty much by
           | definition, the most extreme position of "might is right".
           | The principle text on which is attributed to one "Ragnar
           | Redbeard" [1].
           | 
           | The philosophy is simple. I may rob you, rape you, vandalise,
           | ransack, lie, pillage and kill, for the one simple reason
           | that I am stronger and you are the weaker. And the "rule of
           | law" (insofar as it can exist) must recognise that as my
           | legitimate right. It is obviously an infantile fantasy. Yet I
           | see it echoed in various forms within these pages.
           | 
           | First of all, it is something that nobody of sound mind
           | believes, other than as a pose. It is an anchor point, a
           | strawman from which to develop real ethical positions.
           | 
           | But most of all, it's a fantasy we occasionally wish as true,
           | because if it were, these so-called "powerful corporations"
           | would be reduced to dust and ruin within days by those the
           | real powers in this world who exercise patient restraint.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_Is_Right
        
             | hh3k0 wrote:
             | > In the scheme of ethical philosophy there is, pretty much
             | by definition, the most extreme position of "might is
             | right".
             | 
             | I've occasionally wondered, is that not reality for all of
             | us? Even us living in democratic nations? Is democracy at
             | its core not a "might" (through a greater cardinality)
             | makes right of sorts?
        
               | nonrandomstring wrote:
               | > I've occasionally wondered, is that not reality for all
               | of us? Even us living in democratic nations? Is democracy
               | at its core not a "might" (through a greater cardinality)
               | makes right of sorts?
               | 
               | The tyranny of the majority? Absolutely. The trajectory
               | along which many ethical arguments about power roll is to
               | start with the 'Redbeard' straw-man and then offer up
               | increasingly diluted forms, social contracts and so on,
               | until an acceptable proxy is found for universalisable
               | systematic violence [1] in kind.
               | 
               | [1] This may not be a literal violence at all. The point
               | at which it passes under an acceptable threshold, as
               | sublimated power, says a lot about each culture. For
               | example, acceptance of brutal inequality may be taken as
               | such a sublime violence - the measure of a civilisation
               | is how it treats its weakest members.
        
               | dfxm12 wrote:
               | It is. It's just that capital is the might of today.
               | Money to influence legislation, money to withstand long
               | legal battles, etc.
        
               | exceptione wrote:
               | Democracy is the enemy of the might makes right. Might
               | makes right selects the stronger clan, and selects its
               | strongest leader: that is, the one who follows this
               | doctrine the most brutally and successfully. Because if
               | you don't, someone else will be more ruthless. So in a
               | democracy we protect minority interests and curb the
               | powers of commercial entities. And we have the Trias
               | Politica.
               | 
               | You might wonder if we do enough, for example making sure
               | commercial entities are kept under control. Democracy is
               | work, it is not a guarantee you will keep having it. You
               | can lose it, and many entities are fine with destroying
               | it too further their own self interest. You don't have it
               | because of how exceptional you think you are. So take an
               | active role to protect it.
        
               | adventured wrote:
               | Democracy isn't the enemy of might makes right at all.
               | 
               | In actual democratic systems, the stronger great majority
               | (eg the 75% or 90%) can do anything they want to with a
               | weak minority. There are many prominent examples of
               | democratic systems being used to implement might makes
               | right via majority abuse of the minority.
               | 
               | You have to intentionally neuter democratic systems with
               | strict constitutions that protect individual rights, to
               | prevent might makes right from always taking over
               | democratic systems. You have to put very strong
               | constraints in place to prevent the stronger majority
               | from harming the weaker minority; you have to put the
               | democratic majority in a straight-jacket that limits
               | their possible actions for the protection of the
               | minority.
        
               | andrekandre wrote:
               | > You have to put very strong constraints in place to
               | prevent the stronger majority from harming the weaker
               | minority; you have to put the democratic majority in a
               | straight-jacket that limits their possible actions for
               | the protection of the minority.
               | 
               | in a democracy aren't all voices (votes) equal?
               | 
               | if i have more money and power than you, at the ballot it
               | doesn't matter, you and your weaker friends can overrule
               | me no matter how much money i had
        
               | exceptione wrote:
               | I don't agree with your wording. You sound like that
               | especially in a democracy the minorities get crushed. But
               | its the democracies that build upon the core idea of
               | alienable human rights, that gives you voting power but
               | also guarantees as an individual. It is no wonder that
               | you will find such constitutions in democracies. Thats
               | why I said trias politica.
               | 
               | I encourage you to think critically and at the same time
               | ask you to cherish what you have. It is you duty to
               | defend democracy and keep it functioning, or else you
               | will lose it. I am not saying that do you do that
               | personally, but I see a lot of spoiled people in the west
               | that shit on their own chair, by dismissing democracy,
               | even sometimes equaling it with autocratic regimes. Those
               | don't know what they ask for.
        
               | ncmncm wrote:
               | The notion of inalienable human rights is, specifically,
               | opposed to democracy. Democracy needs to be subordinated
               | to that more fundamental principle.
               | 
               | They are often associated only because places where
               | democracy is strong also tend to acknowledge human
               | rights, at least in the abstract. (Obviously autocrats
               | will not acknowledge it.) But it was, and is, often not
               | so. Ask any Jim Crow victim. Or widow of a police
               | violence victim.
        
               | cupofpython wrote:
               | power will succeed, but that is very different than
               | believing _anything_ a greater power is capable of
               | enforcing must be accepted as morally correct just
               | because they are stronger
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | It is something that Germany believed in the first half of
             | the 20th century. It is something Russia believes now. It
             | ain't as dead as it ought to be.
        
               | exceptione wrote:
               | I am not sure why you are downvoted, because you are dead
               | right. "Might makes right" is exactly the 'philosophy' of
               | the dictators of both countries. Human rights and related
               | concepts are for them nonsense and signs of the weak. The
               | clash between Hitler and Stalin was a clash of two very
               | like minded people.
               | 
               | Some horrid people defend the massacring by Putin by
               | defending the might makes right mindset. They even might
               | think of themselves as independent or critical thinkers.
               | They are not. Might makes right is the doctrine of
               | fascism, and it is good you call out this type of
               | thinking when you see it.
        
               | user_named wrote:
               | The US certainly believes in might makes right too.
        
               | ncmncm wrote:
               | The US has always fostered a strong undercurrent of
               | fascist attitude toward the outside world, and toward its
               | underclass.
        
               | exceptione wrote:
               | I don't think so, even more so in absence of any
               | evidence. And I am not from the US. The US had the
               | biggest power the past decades and have used it to uphold
               | a rule based world order. Be careful what you wish for.
               | 
               | Make no mistake, I have lots of critical things to say
               | about the US. The war on terror was a stupid reaction on
               | the rise of terrorism and extremism, for example. But the
               | US has in general been a real good force for the world.
               | 
               | Wait till you what might makes right really means, you
               | will soon regret armchair snarks.
        
               | user_named wrote:
               | No. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria.
        
               | adventured wrote:
               | Most of Europe believed might makes right until post WW2.
               | Hell, Spain was still a dictatorship until 1975 and a
               | large part of Eastern Europe was still de facto enslaved
               | until the fall of the USSR. Even now you've got a looming
               | dictatorship in Hungary, a dictatorship in Belarus, a
               | dictatorship in Russia, and a dictatorship in Turkey (a
               | quasi European state).
               | 
               | Germany's evil ideology of conquest and might makes
               | right, which was rife in their culture throughout the
               | 18th, 19th and part of the 20th century, was definitely
               | not limited to the first half of the 20th century (not
               | that you were necessarily claiming such). The Nazi
               | ideology was entirely ripped off from existing cultural
               | beliefs that were common in Germany and the greater
               | region at that time and had been for centuries. Hitler
               | was about as non-original as you could get, he simply
               | took common ideas from the culture and swirled them
               | together. Bismarck and Hindenberg were also monsters,
               | Hitler was just worse and was the natural end of their
               | failed, vile culture during those centuries.
               | 
               | It took thousands of years for the Europeans to figure
               | out they needed to banish might makes right.
        
             | all2 wrote:
             | "God made man. Samuel Colt made them equal."
             | 
             | There is codified in the Constitution of the United States
             | recognition that some will always seek to subjugate others.
             | And an enshrined recognition that this is morally wrong is
             | the Second Amendment: the right to bear arms. Many of the
             | founding fathers of the United States made statements to
             | the affect that a well armed citizenry was the only method
             | by which true tyranny could be removed.
             | 
             | And true tyranny is the living example of "might makes
             | right".
             | 
             | The appeal to "something better" than our base instinct to
             | crush our enemies and hear the lamentations of their women
             | is distinct to Christian morality. No other religion or
             | political ideology makes this appeal.
             | 
             | This is why the United States -- with its distinctly
             | Christian moral foundation -- is unique in the world. The
             | founders recognized first the right of association and
             | speech, and second the right to personal autonomy; to bear
             | arms and kill those who would subjugate or kill you.
        
               | random314 wrote:
               | > The appeal to "something better" than our base instinct
               | to crush our enemies and hear the lamentations of their
               | women is distinct to Christian morality. No other
               | religion or political ideology makes this appeal.
               | 
               | What!!
        
               | InefficientRed wrote:
               | I can't tell if this is unhinged xenophobia or satire.
               | 
               | In case of the former: the crusades, any of the millions
               | of athiest or non-christian pacifists, and... I can't
               | believe this needs stating, but shooting someone in the
               | face with an assault rifle is an exercise of "might".
        
               | gpderetta wrote:
               | Something something Poe's law something...
        
               | boston_clone wrote:
               | Considering their history of using Gab, you can safely
               | assume the former.
               | 
               | Their complete misunderstanding of the history of both
               | this country's founding and Christianity really help
               | cement that assumption as accurate, though.
               | 
               | It's unfortunate to see that the US education system has
               | regressed so poorly.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | all2 wrote:
               | And shooting someone who is trying to kill you or your
               | family is an exercise in individual sovereignty.
        
             | toolz wrote:
             | Is there no ethical argument to be made that the domain
             | would better serve the car company? Domain names are a
             | limited resource, is it more ethical to practice "first is
             | right" ethics?
        
               | metadat wrote:
               | Domain names aren't actually a limited resource. Only the
               | short ones are.
               | 
               | Fundamental flaw of the system, because just like
               | physical real estate, whoever got there first has an
               | enormous advantage.
               | 
               | Nobody is arguing on my behalf to kick my landlord to the
               | curb, though.
        
               | moomin wrote:
               | Watch you don't apply this reasoning to your own house.
        
               | missedthecue wrote:
               | Eminent domain would be a possible analogy in the context
               | of real estate.
               | 
               | Though you are correct that very few people argue for
               | eminent domain against their own land holdings.
        
               | toolz wrote:
               | eminent domain is used in this way, and I don't really
               | agree with the rule, but there is an argument to be made
               | for my land being taken over because it serves some other
               | purpose better than it serves me.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | You are also paid "fair market value" in emminent domain
               | takings, they don't just seize your property.
               | 
               | IDK what Nissan Motors offered Mr. Nissan for the domain
               | but I'm guessing it must have been a case of "it's not
               | for sale" because they probably would have paid nearly
               | anything he asked if he'd been willing to name a price.
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | Well, if they believe in markets that's basically what
               | money is for: you think something is worth more to you
               | than to somebody else, then just pay the other party for
               | it.
               | 
               | There's plenty of cases where this kind of reasoning
               | fails, because it doesn't care about ethics, but in this
               | exact situation there no ethical question at stakes,
               | especially since Uzi Nissan bought this domain name in
               | good faith. It's just a matter of how much the two
               | companies value their respective utility for this scarce
               | resource.
               | 
               | (+ insert rant here about how all capitalists love is
               | crony capitalism and how much they hate markets)
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | It's interesting to ask oneself, I think, how many
               | person-hours of lawyer labor Nissan paid for, and whether
               | less money than that could have been consolidated into
               | one lump-sum payment to Mr. Nissan of "a quantity that
               | immediately bumps one individual up to nouveau-riche
               | class," such that whether he had a domain name from which
               | to do business was irrelevant because he didn't have to
               | work.
               | 
               | Of course, that assumes Mr. Nissan would have been
               | willing to trade at all. Some people aren't motivated by
               | money, which certainly increases the complexity of the
               | "markets solve all things" hypothesis.
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | They tried to strong-arm him, he resisted and they ended-
               | up both stuck is a dollar auction game[1], a typical
               | game-theory situation where both players end up losing
               | way more than expected gain at the beginning.
               | 
               | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_auction
        
               | sobkas wrote:
               | If they start paying for stuff like this without any
               | resistance they will lose deterrent of having enough
               | lawyers to bombard you with lawsuits to the end of your
               | life. Now I will think twice if I want to cross any
               | corporation. This is a chilling effect the are aiming
               | for. Shut up or else.
        
               | rakoo wrote:
               | Your question relies on multiple assumptions that not
               | everyone, including me, may agree with:
               | 
               | - domain names should be distributed based on some
               | measurement of "utility" - the Nissan company is bigger
               | than the Nissan person, therefore they have a higher
               | utility - domain names control should be changed outside
               | of one's control
               | 
               | There is no perfect way to assign domain names. As you
               | say, first come first serve has its downsides. But I
               | don't like the idea of big capitalistic companies taking
               | over domain names just because more people know them; in
               | fact that's yet another demonstration of capitalism
               | accumulating even more resources at the expense of
               | someone less.
        
             | littlestymaar wrote:
             | I've never heard about this Ragnar Redbeard before, but I
             | find it pretty funny because this book was published
             | approximately one century _after_ Jean Jacques Rousseau
             | published a refutation of this exact same theory in _Du
             | contrat social_ (which kind of shows how unoriginal
             | Redbeard thought was).
        
             | jemski wrote:
             | Hear hear. A much better worded explanation than my soul
             | would allow.
             | 
             | I'm dumbfounded when the observation is made. On the one
             | hand, if it's just common sense that large corporations
             | will do what they want to anyone at any time, isn't our
             | need to fight them on it similarly common? The second part
             | is always left out. Probably rarely on purpose, but always
             | to the benefit of the aggressor.
        
               | adventured wrote:
               | > if it's just common sense that large corporations will
               | do what they want to anyone at any time, isn't our need
               | to fight them on it similarly common?
               | 
               | Of course and "we" do fight them as a matter of routine,
               | and "we" win frequently too.
               | 
               | If that weren't the case, the EPA wouldn't exist, OSHA
               | wouldn't exist, the FDA wouldn't exist, the FAA wouldn't
               | exist, the 40 hour work week wouldn't exist, automobiles
               | wouldn't have a vast number of legally mandated safety
               | requirements, building codes wouldn't exist, and so on
               | and so forth.
        
               | MikeTheGreat wrote:
               | > the EPA wouldn't exist
               | 
               | It's worth pointing out that the recent Supreme Court
               | case [1] may have changed this back to what large
               | corporations and Republicans have wanted; the precendent
               | that the case sets may then enable Republicans to
               | dismantle the rest of the agencies you mentioned [2]
               | 
               | [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/20-1530
               | [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/20-1530
               | #writin...
        
               | jdgoesmarching wrote:
               | The few wins we managed to secure decades ago pale in
               | comparisons to the thousands of legislative and judicial
               | victories corporations have won and continue to win
               | since. Even your EPA example was just whittled down by
               | the Supreme Court
               | 
               | It's not comparable, we rarely win. I'm not sure why you
               | surround "we" in quotes, because the people benefiting
               | from this arrangement represent an extremely small number
               | and it's unlikely you're among them.
        
         | cupofpython wrote:
         | >(even though the Altima and Maxima were excellent cars)
         | 
         | why advertise for them for free?
        
           | missedthecue wrote:
           | I think he's implying that his boycott imposed a cost on him,
           | and therefore had more meaning, because had they behaved
           | differently, he would have liked to have owned a Nissan.
        
             | cupofpython wrote:
             | I understand that, but he regrets that his decision could
             | not be more influential.
             | 
             | Which is severely undermined by the claim that Nissan makes
             | great cars
             | 
             | Especially when considering the person making the claim has
             | an implied incentive to hate the cars. He's making a
             | genuine claim that "I want to hate their cars but I cant"
             | 
             | which is fantastic advertising for Nissan.
        
             | mikece wrote:
             | Exactly. I'm 6'5" and Nissan made cars with much more
             | headroom than Honda or Toyota.
        
         | Pakdef wrote:
         | > I personally renounced ever buying a Nissan again
         | 
         | Personally, I stopped buying Nissan cars because of bad
         | experiences/failed transmissions right after warranty expired.
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | Seems like their sports cars are alright. I enjoy my Z31
           | project car.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | Not because their Japanese executives had their US executives
           | kidnapped and tortured by the police?
           | 
           | https://asiatimes.com/2022/06/former-nissan-executive-
           | greg-k...
        
         | dubswithus wrote:
         | One doesn't need an excuse not to buy some of the ugliest cars
         | ever made.
        
         | zagrebian wrote:
         | What makes you think that any other carmaker would have behaved
         | differently?
        
         | themaninthedark wrote:
         | This is sad news.
         | 
         | When I first heard about this back in High School, I had the
         | same reaction. I hope they put back up the old website or at
         | least a memorial page for him.
        
         | megablast wrote:
         | This is hilarious.
         | 
         | You hate Nissan because they bullied this guy.
         | 
         | So you bought a different brand car.
         | 
         | Cars which kill a million people directly worldwide, and
         | another million due to pollution??
         | 
         | That waste trillions due to roads destroying our cities and
         | countryside.
         | 
         | Spread pollution everywhere.
         | 
         | Waste trillions on hospitals, nurses, doctors and police for
         | all the crashes.
         | 
         | Maimed and disabled millions around the world.
         | 
         | And much worse.
         | 
         | But you are fine with cars, but Nissan bullied some guy.
        
           | google234123 wrote:
           | Cars don't make decisions, people do, yet you blame "cars".
           | Anyway, your entire argument is a straw man.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | " _Don 't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them
             | instead._"
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Can you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamewar
           | comments to HN? You've done this repeatedly, and we end up
           | having to ban such accounts. It's not what this site is for,
           | and it destroys what it is for.
           | 
           | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking
           | the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be
           | grateful.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | the altima and maxima may be fine cars but there's also nothing
         | wrong with a camry or an accord. plenty of good alternatives.
        
           | mikece wrote:
           | I'm 6'5" and Nissan made cars with much more headroom than
           | Honda or Toyota.
        
         | ses1984 wrote:
         | Are there any car companies that are innocent?
        
           | technothrasher wrote:
           | Tucker?
        
             | jdironman wrote:
             | Little fischer red and yellow one?
        
           | stevefan1999 wrote:
           | hell, are there any companies that ate innocent? never.
        
         | somenewaccount1 wrote:
         | fwiw, you are not the only person who avoided buying Nissan
         | over this lawsuit. While they may never be able to see the
         | impact their decisions have had on their bottom line, it is
         | likely more than most people would guess.
        
           | oneoff786 wrote:
           | Sounds unlikely
        
           | WheatM wrote:
        
         | jliptzin wrote:
         | In the same boat. I remember following this story since I was
         | in high school
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | I wonder how much not having nissan.com affected Nissan's
       | business. I'm probably sure it's tremendous.
        
         | chiph wrote:
         | Perhaps back when his fight with the automaker was going on.
         | But typing "nissan" into Google has returned the automaker as
         | the 1st result for quite a while now (SEO for the win). Someone
         | would have to type the full domain name into their browser to
         | end up at his site.
        
       | zaidf wrote:
       | Uzi Nissan was one of the more interesting people I met as a
       | freelancer in college. He replied to a craigslist ad and we met
       | for coffee. He had some crazy ideas (and conspiracies:) about all
       | the things he wanted to hire a freelancer to do with nissan.com
        
         | neonate wrote:
         | Please tell us more?
        
       | tekeous wrote:
       | Should have hosted it with Njalla and watched Nissan fumble
       | around trying to figure out who to sue
        
       | tedk-42 wrote:
       | As someone who had no idea who this person was or their legal
       | troubles with Nissan (motor company), I find it strange that this
       | was the battle he chose to fight to define who he was as a
       | person.
       | 
       | Each to his own though. Not a hill I would have chosen to die on.
        
       | fourstar wrote:
       | My brother owns (our last name.com). Our great great grandfather
       | started and ran a fairly successful (pre-prohibition) brewery.
       | Someone found out about our last name, trademarked it, and
       | "restarted" the brewery with no relation to anyone in our family.
       | The best part is they feigned ignorance when they "learned" that
       | there were still living descendants in the area...
        
         | maratc wrote:
         | I'm sorry, I don't understand.
         | 
         | Say I feel a lot of respect to e.g. Amelia Earhart, so much so
         | that I want to establish an air-exploration company and name it
         | Earhart Air Explorers. Do I need to get an approval from all of
         | her descendants first?
        
         | 0des wrote:
         | What's the next step?
        
           | fourstar wrote:
           | Good question. We've talked to various lawyers throughout the
           | years. The crappy part is that the people who resurrected it
           | have hundreds of millions in real estate backed ventures (big
           | $$$), so there's really not much we can do aside from pound
           | sand considering we weren't brewing the beer, or enforcing
           | the trademark. The even weirder thing is that they used his
           | name as their contact email for the longest time on their
           | website, made a brew dedicated to my late grandfather (a
           | pediatrician they never met) based on tongue-depresser
           | airplanes he made for his patients, and even had the gall to
           | leave one of their first bottled brews at my great great
           | grandfather's gravesite.
           | 
           | So the only thing I can do is just raise awareness, and tell
           | people who ask me if there is any relation (when they
           | see/hear my last name) to not support them!
        
             | jstanley wrote:
             | If every generation since your great great grandfather had
             | 3 children, then you can expect your great great
             | grandfather to have 81 descendants in your generation (most
             | of whom would have a different surname - to a first
             | approximation you only retain the surname if your
             | connection to him is on the father's side at every level).
             | 
             | I'm guessing you wouldn't know all of them, and in the
             | olden days people had more kids so it could easily be a lot
             | higher than that. Isn't it possible that the people running
             | the brewery are also great great grandchildren of your
             | great great grandfather?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | squirtle24 wrote:
               | Some light googling led me to the brewery in question. On
               | their About page, it would appear the answer is a no.
               | They didn't know who the GG grandfather was until they
               | randomly saw his name on a building, and then decided to
               | name a beer after him.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | > even had the gall to leave one of their first bottled
             | brews at my great great grandfather's gravesite.
             | 
             | That's a weird thing to do. I can see wanting to steal an
             | established brand because people are attracted to legacy,
             | especially in the case of something like brewing.
             | 
             | But leaving a tribute at his grave is, honestly, just
             | bizarre behavior. Are the obsessed or something? Do they
             | think they have some connection to your family?
             | 
             | One of your family should try to work for them, maybe the
             | company will treat them like the second coming. Or human
             | sacrifice. But hey, worth a shot, right?
        
               | qorrect wrote:
               | > even had the gall to leave one of their first bottled
               | brews at my great great grandfather's gravesite.
               | 
               | That came across as a genuine gesture ... I wonder if
               | there is more to this story.
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Might have been a photo-op.
        
               | aeyes wrote:
               | They probably didn't just leave the bottle there, my
               | guess is that they have pictures of this which are used
               | as marketing material.
        
               | fourstar wrote:
               | Yeah, a bit obsessed, I reckon. What irks me the most is
               | my late father collected breweriana from the old brewery
               | (serving trays, tip trays, signs, etc.). From what I've
               | heard, after inheriting some of his collection and
               | attending the bottle/breweriana shows he went to, I found
               | out from a couple of dealers, that one of the guys from
               | the brewery has also been collecting. So now I've got
               | competition with deep pockets in an otherwise esoteric
               | hobby.
        
               | luhrkuhr wrote:
               | Weird folks out there. I'm named for my grandfather, a
               | former MLB player with a World Series win to his name.
               | While back found out there was a man impersonating him
               | after his death, not too far from where we lived at the
               | time.
               | 
               | https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/2011/05/15/baseb
               | all...
        
               | fourstar wrote:
               | What a story! Thanks for sharing. I love the bit in there
               | about the lawyer buying the imposter the replica ring. It
               | was written in a pretty unique way. My great great
               | grandfather actually also owned a baseball team named
               | after his signature beer. Random-fact: Abraham Lincoln's
               | granddaughter's husband played for them.
        
               | luhrkuhr wrote:
               | Oh boy, so the story about the ring is it's own
               | interesting tidbit - my whole life I was told my aunt
               | stole the ring and "traded it for a bag of pot." Now, my
               | grandfather only had two children so for it to be the
               | exact same story but with my father as the perpetrator
               | makes for an even stranger twist in this whole story.
               | 
               | How did this man have such a similar story? My father
               | lived and worked in the general area of the conman, did
               | their paths cross at a bar? Both my aunt and father were
               | and are substance abusing screw-ups for most of their
               | lives so it could truly go either way!
               | 
               | Unfortunately, I cut ties with my father before leaving
               | for college and so will likely never know. I accidentally
               | found this newspaper article a few years ago while
               | Googling around, wondering if the stolen original ever
               | turned up for auction or something and your comment about
               | searching for merchandise reminded me. I've thought about
               | writing to the imposter and or the article's author but I
               | feel that would sound like a scam unto itself.
        
               | marcelluspye wrote:
               | Is this comment supposed to be the hook for a short story
               | or film where you slowly learn that you're actually the
               | grandson of the impostor?
        
               | luhrkuhr wrote:
               | Ha! No, I was old enough to be at my grandfather's well
               | attended funeral to know who is the real Rocky.
        
             | gxs wrote:
             | Wow, this is enraging.
             | 
             | It's situations like these that would test how truly civil
             | I am. I'm not sure I'd be able to keep myself from
             | retaliating in other ways.
        
         | bdowling wrote:
         | Trademarks are use-it-or-lose-it. Don't feel bad though. If
         | Budweiser stops making beer, you can snag the name from them.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Nissan Motors vs. Nissan Computer_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25622386 - Jan 2021 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Nissan.com (is not owned by Nissan the car company)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24369990 - Sept 2020 (102
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nissan Motor 's Lawsuit Against Us_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20680958 - Aug 2019 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Uzi Nissan Spent 8 Years Fighting Nissan Motor Company to Keep
       | Nissan.com_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16670141 -
       | March 2018 (83 comments)
       | 
       |  _Nissan Motors LawSuit Against Nissan Computer_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15919367 - Dec 2017 (5
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Nissan vs. Nissan (2008)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10030968 - Aug 2015 (21
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Why You Can't Buy a Car on Nissan.com - Now I Know_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9692059 - June 2015 (4
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Why Nissan.com Isn't a Car Website_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6073980 - July 2013 (85
       | comments)
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | Let's hope that his heirs hold on to the domain name.
        
         | simondotau wrote:
         | I hope they sell it to the car company for tens of millions of
         | dollars. Or more.
        
       | kube-system wrote:
       | It resolves and loads a page for me, it has just been... updated.
       | Wonder if his next of kin will be selling it.
        
         | conductr wrote:
         | > Wonder if his next of kin will be selling it
         | 
         | Was my thought, hope he had put this in his estate with some
         | reasonable transfer procedure
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | The company will get it eventually.
         | 
         | That's the thing about corporations: they outlive people. It
         | took Disney 79 years and the trade of a sportscaster's career
         | to get Oswald the Lucky Rabbit back, but they did it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | Did something change between when this was posted and now?
       | 
       | The website is up for me, however the content is stripped down
       | relative to the previous version (
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220406221134/https://nissan.co...
       | ). All of the anti-Nissan content is gone and it simply says
       | "Contact Us"
       | 
       | Given the events, I wouldn't be surprised if his estate is moving
       | toward trying to sell the domain and collect any possible
       | proceeds.
        
         | bmcahren wrote:
         | No, but seeing as his vehemently anti-Nissan-motors content is
         | gone in entirety from both nissan.com and digest.com I count
         | this as "down" in terms of the website that once was a bastion
         | of internet freedom.
        
       | angst_ridden wrote:
       | I used to work at a web firm that did Nissan USA's web site. I
       | was in meetings where they discussed ways they would finally get
       | the domain from Uzi. They obviously never succeeded. I did learn
       | a lot about trademark law despite myself.
        
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       (page generated 2022-07-01 23:01 UTC)