[HN Gopher] Arm Introduces the Cortex-A715
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       Arm Introduces the Cortex-A715
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2022-06-29 16:10 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fuse.wikichip.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fuse.wikichip.org)
        
       | e40 wrote:
       | Can someone give an ARMv8.N vs ARMv9 comparison?
        
         | als0 wrote:
         | Each minor version of ARMv8 has a lot of optional extensions.
         | What ARMv9 does is make some of those features mandatory. ARMv9
         | also includes new optional features such as Scalable Vector
         | Extensions 2 (SVE2) and Confidential Compute Architecture (CCA)
         | (Intel SGX / AMD SEV equivalent).
        
           | bpye wrote:
           | Slight nit pick - but CCA is more akin to TDX than SGX.
        
       | 2bitencryption wrote:
       | could someone explain how the Arm product pipeline works?
       | 
       | This is my (probably totally wrong) understanding:
       | 
       | Arm makes chip specification and defines assembly language -->
       | companies (Samsung, Apple) license both of these and design their
       | own chips following those specs --> these designs are sent to
       | fabs and produced.
       | 
       | But what I don't get is, what "wiggle room" do companies like
       | Apple and Samsung have to make their chips special? Obviously the
       | M1 is a different beast from a Samsung chip, but they are both
       | "Arm". So what is Apple able to do that makes the M1 the M1,
       | while still also being "Armv8", the same "Armv8" as a Samsung
       | chip? Does "Armv8" only mean "it must accept this instruction
       | set, the rest is up to you"? Or is there requirements at the
       | silicon level as well? Is this new Corex-A715 simply a
       | "reference" chip for the next gen of the Arm instruction set?
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | A lot of the customization is in the peripherals. ARM (AFAIK)
         | really only specifies the processor, modern devices have lots
         | of other on-board signals.
         | 
         | The instruction set really only defines how to run mathematical
         | operations on the data on its bus, what to write to registers,
         | and what instructions should load and store memory to various
         | pages on the memory map.
         | 
         | Licensors add peripherals to do things that the instruction set
         | doesn't define, like how to toggle an output pin from low to
         | high. You use the instruction set to set a bit in a particular
         | location in memory, and that turns on an LED attached to that
         | pin - or they make a handy peripheral that lets you write to a
         | word, because setting one bit in a 32-bit memory value is a
         | read-modify-write 3-step operation and many of their devices
         | have thousands of bytes of storage and RAM in an address space
         | with billions of memory locations. They add I2C, SPI, CAN,
         | Ethernet, USB, EEPROM, Flash, SRAM, video, etc. etc. etc. to
         | make useful systems on chip - the processor is only one small
         | part of that equation.
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | Good explanation from 2013 here:
         | 
         | https://www.anandtech.com/show/7112/the-arm-diaries-part-1-h...
        
         | theresistor wrote:
         | ARM produces both architecture specifications and the designs
         | for chips that implement those specifications.
         | 
         | Some companies license the architecture specification and
         | design their own implementations, Apple being the leading
         | example. They then pay TSMC to fabricate the chips for them.
         | 
         | Other companies license the implementations and pay to have
         | them fabricated. The latter category varies in the level of
         | customization they apply to the implementations they license,
         | it's generally much less customized than the what those in the
         | first category achieve.
        
       | akmittal wrote:
       | >at the same performance levels as the A710, the A715 consumes
       | 20% less power.
       | 
       | I see this in every Qualcomm release. Why don't phone makers
       | optimize for power efficiency?
        
         | Narishma wrote:
         | They do, but their efforts are likely thwarted by the
         | continuous bloating of software.
        
         | causi wrote:
         | It's a cycle. You get cool chips, then hot chips, then cool
         | chips. For example, the Snapdragon 800 was a hot chip, then
         | 801, 805 chips ran cool then the 810 had terrible heat
         | problems. We're in a "hot" cycle right now with 888 and 8 Gen 1
         | phones typically having significant throttling problems.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Because while the CPU gets more efficient, other parts go the
         | other direction? Higher resolution screens, more sensors,
         | radios with harder to implement requirements, and so on.
        
         | Symmetry wrote:
         | Phone makers spend a lot of time worrying about power. But
         | because your screen and cell radio take up a minimum amount of
         | power there's a level of diminishing returns in optimizing the
         | application cores beyond a certain point.
        
           | rbanffy wrote:
           | And, besides that, when chips get smaller, even at the same
           | power levels, you may end up with a smaller PCB and leave
           | more space for a bigger battery.
        
         | DowsingSpoon wrote:
         | >Why don't phone makers optimize for power efficiency?
         | 
         | They do. I don't know what misunderstandings could lead you to
         | believe that phone makers don't already spend significant
         | effort and resources on power efficiency.
        
           | awill wrote:
           | what OP is saying is "Why don't new phones last 20% more than
           | last year's phones"
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
         | Most likely in my mind because phone makers would like you to
         | purchase a new phone every 2 years, and a new battery only
         | begins to degrade around that time as well.
        
           | borissk wrote:
           | Eh you seem to like conspiracy theories. Not to say there
           | aren't conspiracies out there, but for some people this is
           | the first and only explanation for everything. As you can see
           | in the other comments there are technical reasons for what
           | the phone makers are doing.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-29 23:01 UTC)