[HN Gopher] Golden Gate Bridge construction - and indignation (2...
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Golden Gate Bridge construction - and indignation (2012)
Author : notlukesky
Score : 42 points
Date : 2022-06-28 11:30 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sfgate.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sfgate.com)
| ginja wrote:
| Cool article! The Golden Gate is so iconic that Portugal
| contracted American companies to build a similar one in Lisbon
| and painted it the same color:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25_de_Abril_Bridge
|
| Originally it had only 4 car lanes (2 in each direction), but was
| designed to be expanded and some 30 years later two new lanes
| were added and two sets of train tracks were built in the lower
| deck, which now carry both intercity and suburban trains that are
| much faster than driving during rush hour. An interesting unique
| feature is that 2 of the lanes are made of steel grating instead
| of asphalt in order to reduce aerodynamic forces in high winds.
|
| The other bridge across the Tagus is also remarkable, given that
| it is the longest in the EU:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasco_da_Gama_Bridge
| Lammy wrote:
| > The other bridge across the Tagus is also remarkable
|
| I love how it looks like we just copied them back :p
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_th...
| goatcode wrote:
| It's so easy to look at decades old successes and scoff at
| opponents, but without hindsight it's easy to appreciate
| criticism. We're no smarter or more sophisticated than anyone
| back then, and shouldn't use a story like this to justify making
| fun of opponents of new projects, today. I'm certain that there
| are 10 boondoggles to every success like this, and if we took
| those into account, maybe we'd be a bit more sober about our
| criticism of people whom we've never met who healthily question
| everything.
| Cupertino95014 wrote:
| > who healthily question everything
|
| leave out the adverb.
|
| If you question _everything_ you 're not adding any
| information. If you support some things and question others,
| then people tend to listen to you.
| goatcode wrote:
| By "question," I mean "question," not "detract." Questioning
| is never unhealthy, because questioning is looking critically
| (which also has no natively negative connotation).
| cheesy_luigi wrote:
| It's funny seeing that people's attitudes haven't changed in 100
| years. Today in San Francisco you still see a small minority of
| NIMBYs protesting every little change. But the difference is, now
| they actually have the power to completely block projects. What
| changed?
|
| If I had to wager, I would say CEQA making it much harder to
| build, and much easier to block any construction.
| seoaeu wrote:
| Tons of laws changed, particularly in response to the
| construction of urban highways and "slum clearance" both of
| which involved the demolition of entire neighborhoods
| bsimpson wrote:
| Based on the date, I'm guessing this was for the 75th anniversary
| of the bridge.
|
| That was the coolest fireworks show I've ever seen.
| basedgod wrote:
| a bridge to nowhere, that's a blight on that neighborhood in SF
| (in the middle of a beautiful park), and has served to fuel and
| encourage car culture, and does not integrate with public transit
| in the slightest
|
| few civic minded people celebrate the freeways that have torn
| 20th century cities apart, and this bridge is (a very pretty)
| extension of this
| pengaru wrote:
| Of all the bridges in the bay area, the Golden Gate is the
| least deserving of such contempt IMHO.
|
| At least pedestrians and cyclists can make use of it, I've done
| multiple bike rides from The Sunset to Marin/Sausalito/Larkspur
| via the GGB. Never a bad time.
|
| The Bay Bridge however, now that's a bridge I can get behind
| hating on. Lots of lost opportunity.
| humanistbot wrote:
| When I lived in SF, I really enjoyed taking the Muni 76X
| express bus from downtown SF across the Golden Gate Bridge to
| Muir Woods. It only runs on the weekends, but that's not the
| bridge's fault.
| xivzgrev wrote:
| Not sure what you mean by lack of integration with public
| transit.
|
| The Golden Gate Bridge does not have a subway. But it does
| carry a lot of buses. It also has biking and walking lanes,
| unlike other Bay Area bridges.
|
| Is your ideal to have no bridges, or at least bridges closed to
| individual cars (Like market st)?
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The biking and walking lanes on golden gate leave much to be
| desired. I would not consider them functional for non leisure
| travel.
| mhb wrote:
| Yes. Biking across is not fun at all.
| bluejekyll wrote:
| A huge loss is that when Bart was built Marin voted against
| extending it north.
|
| The Bridge that we need foot and bike traffic access on is
| the Bay Bridge. That's far more disappointing as it would
| better connect Oakland and SF (and Treasure Island!). With
| ebikes so popular now, that could actually displace cars
| significantly in the Bay Area.
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| The eastern span has one. Mostly useless without one on the
| western span though. They seem to have a project up for it,
| but i'm not sure what the status is:
|
| https://mtc.ca.gov/planning/transportation/bicycle-
| pedestria...
| bluejekyll wrote:
| Yeah I've seen all of the options for the western span, I
| think it's going to require a lot of pressure on
| Sacramento to get any progress on this.
| nullc wrote:
| > A huge loss is that when Bart was built Marin voted
| against extending it north.
|
| Marin was kicked out, as a result of San Mateo pulling out
| leaving Bart under funded. As they said at the time, "We
| are withdrawing involuntarily and upon request,". A 1956
| poll found that 87.7 percent of Marin residents wanted a
| BART line.
|
| https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/How-BART-almost-
| connect...
| bluejekyll wrote:
| That is much better context, definitely conflicts with
| the common understanding people have of why the Marin
| portion failed.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > The Bridge that we need foot and bike traffic access on
| is the Bay Bridge.
|
| I'm not sure how useful that would be. The Bay Bridge is
| quite long, at ~4.5 miles end-to-end, and the east span
| terminates in a huge toll plaza in an industrial area of
| Oakland which is neither bike- nor pedestrian-friendly. I
| wouldn't realistically expect any significant number of
| bikers to use the bridge, and those that did would probably
| be using it more for recreation than transport. Like it or
| not, the Bay Bridge was built as a highway connector.
| bluejekyll wrote:
| You may be unaware, but the east bay portion of Bay trail
| connects to a lot of great bike infrastructure from the
| Eastern Span of the Bay Bridge already. It's a very
| gentle grade up the entire bridge, which makes it
| approachable for even casual riders. The connection there
| has many bike paths that lead between all the East Bay
| cities, Oakland, Emeryville, Berkeley, Albany, and
| Richmond.
|
| From Oakland it would be approximately a 45 minute bike
| ride (if it existed), on an ebike probably 20 minutes.
| About an hour from Berkeley (and 30 minutes on ebike).
| These times would compete with cars during rush hour.
| closeparen wrote:
| It's true you wouldn't want to dump bikes at the literal
| terminus of the bridge, but a surface-level bike path
| could take you a little past the Maze to the vicinity of
| the Frontage Road & Powell St or Mandela Parkway / Horton
| St, both very comfortably bikeable. I used those streets
| for years cycling from Berkeley to West Oakland BART and
| the Jack London Square ferry terminal.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| If I imagine it as an ugly bridge then I can see your points
| well. But I really think you have to figure the beauty of it
| into the equation. It draws unbelievable tourism to the city.
| My wife (a Brazilian) has a tattoo of it - that's how strong
| the allure is for some people (although of course there are
| people all around the world who have a tattoo of whatever
| architectural icon that drew them to their adopted city). $35M
| to make your city an international icon is a bargain. Of course
| the creators probably had no idea it would have that kind of
| impact but my only point is that when talking about the GGB the
| beauty is an inextricable part of the equation.
| basedgod wrote:
| it's a bargain for the city but still a blight on it's
| residents that does not serve them in any way
|
| it makes the lives of a few rich people better as they can
| commute to their yachts better, but that's about it
|
| sf would have been completely fine as a city without this
| bridge
| Melatonic wrote:
| Ah yes - a bridge from the top of a peninsula to the other
| side. Surely nowhere else would people think to make one of
| those. Just have everyone take the long way around where
| they will then need to cross TWO bridges if they want to
| travel north!
| boulos wrote:
| Do you feel that reaching Point Reyes and other areas in
| the north does not "serve them in any way"? Bridges have
| existed for millennia because they're useful to both sides
| of the bridge.
| basedgod wrote:
| this garbage bridge does not serve it's residents above
| replacement.
|
| ferries already existed, as well as other ways to get to
| the areas north of the city.
|
| the main issue with this bridge is that it is the enemy
| of better, and a bridge/tunnel with forward thinking
| infrastructure and transit can now never be built, now
| that we have this antiquated garbage bridge built, merely
| for the myth of car ownership
|
| the civil planning doesn't even extend to the rest of the
| city, it's merely plopped down onto an arbitrary section
| of it.
|
| it would have been better to not have been built at all.
| a more ugly bridge built later on wouldn't have had the
| nimbys we have today, and could have been torn down and
| retrofitted without it being sacrilegious
| djbusby wrote:
| It reads like you don't understand the needs of SF back
| when that bridge was built. It could also carry rail, but
| that portion was not completed - because, and here's the
| shocker, a city's needs change over time. The Wikipedia
| page about this bridge covers a lot of these details.
| milesskorpen wrote:
| Entirely 100% disagree. Easy access to Marin and all areas
| north make San Francisco a much better city.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Tourism is a substantial part of San Francisco's economy.
| It employs a lot of San Francisco residents.
| bombcar wrote:
| If it's only used by a few rich people, I'd expect the
| traffic on it is very light.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Counterpoint though is the fact that you see heavy
| traffic on it is testament to its role in encouraging car
| culture
| Lammy wrote:
| People need to live somewhere, and we sure haven't built
| up enough to allow most people to live within the city
| itself. Is "encouraging car culture" the new NIMBY angle?
| It's just the flip-side of the housing crisis. I'd live
| closer to work too if I could afford Woodside or
| whatever.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| _and does not integrate with public transit in the slightest_
|
| I used to live in SF and commuted to Sausalito daily, either by
| GGT bus or bike (or rarely, took the ferry but riding home from
| the ferry wasn't much shorter than just riding to Sausalito).
| gumby wrote:
| The BART counterexample is great. However what this reminds me of
| most is the transition (or lack thereof) to clean power.
| knoxa2511 wrote:
| I'm pretty surprised to see all this bridge hate. I use the
| bridge multiple times a week to mountain bike or surf in north
| bay. I picked my spot in the city in part because of it's
| proximity to the bridge.
| tingletech wrote:
| 2012
| anewpersonality wrote:
| The craziest thing is the zipper. Surprised other bridges, like
| Sydney Harbour, don't do the same thing.
| [deleted]
| tomcam wrote:
| You can walk across it. Took me way too long to do so. Even up
| close it's an aesthetic and engineering treat.
| bombcar wrote:
| A surprising amount of bridges are walkable - and almost always
| a treat, even if you just park near one end and walk out and
| back.
| Fatnino wrote:
| You can walk across the Dumbarton bridge. It's... not to
| everyone's taste.
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| Something to note is they have "automatic gates" that are
| supposed to prevent overnight pedestrian access while allowing
| overnight bicycle access. Can anyone share how these gates work
| in practice?
|
| https://www.goldengate.org/bridge/visiting-the-bridge/bikes-...
| udit99 wrote:
| " Cyclists press the "buzzer" located near the closed
| security gate. After security staff locates the cyclist on a
| security camera, the gate is opened remotely. "
| CoffeeOnWrite wrote:
| Ty! I took too literally the word "automatic" and stopped
| reading.
|
| Wonder how long before they try to use ML instead of the
| human judgment..
| ginja wrote:
| Interesting. What's the point in differentiating between
| pedestrians and cyclists? Is it an attempt at preventing
| suicide for non-bikers?
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Probably an attempt to keep homeless people from sleeping
| on the pathway and getting run over by the night cyclists.
| jsight wrote:
| Strange that they differentiate between ebikes and scooters.
| divbzero wrote:
| _Traffic projections were "over-optimistic"_ is the anti-bridge
| argument that could have swayed me the most. I've always been
| struck by the contrast in population density north and south of
| the Golden Gate. Perhaps because Marin is more mountainous than
| the mildly hilly San Francisco?
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