[HN Gopher] Tell HN: Google deleted my spreadsheet, review reque...
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Tell HN: Google deleted my spreadsheet, review request says file
can't be found
I have (or had as it seems now) a spreadsheet in google docs
tracking important business metrics. I was trying to look at it
today and got the message: "We're sorry. You can't access this
item because it is in violation of our Terms of Service. If you
feel this is in error, please request a review. Find out more about
this topic at the Google Drive Help Center." If I click the
request a review I get: "404. That's an error. Sorry, this item
cannot be found or is not available." This spreadsheet simply had
metrics and domains. I find it near impossible it was violating any
terms of service unless there is a shadow blacklist of domain names
which somehow trigger a file being removed. And I'm left with no
recourse to even request a review or get my file back? I turned on
airplane mode on my phone and was able to get an old cached copy,
export was only possible as a PDF. So at least I have a slightly
stale version of raw data that way. Even as a paying customer,
this is pretty embarrassing and there seems no recourse is
possible?
Author : ohashi
Score : 90 points
Date : 2022-06-27 17:35 UTC (5 hours ago)
| googlryas wrote:
| Were the metrics related to the company in your profile? It seems
| legit(and a good idea even!) but I can see how that data might
| end up looking like spammer/blackhat SEO data to a robot.
|
| I think, perhaps, the 404 you got was not for your file, but just
| a broken link to their review form. Is there some other manner
| you can find a different review button? This[0] implies you can
| click Share -> Request a Review, maybe try that?
|
| [0] https://support.google.com/drive/answer/2463328?hl=en
| ohashi wrote:
| I tried, no luck on any of the links I could find.
|
| The metrics were all domain name related, I also work for
| NameBio.com, the largest database of domain name sales. We also
| do a bunch of other things in the domain name space including
| owning icann accredited registrars.
|
| My spreadsheets are full of domain names and metrics from all
| over the place.
| sha256sum wrote:
| Businesses need to consider the risks involved with cloud
| providers turning hostile against them (especially Google). Case
| and point: poster has no recourse, had reason to trust Google's
| availability in hosting their docs, and got caught doing
| something unknown by an over-zealous, unregulated implementation
| of AI. Had the poster not had the knowledge or skill to recover
| the document it would probably be lost entirely.
| Animats wrote:
| This is the sort of event that needs to be publicized within
| the accounting community. Storing business data in Google may
| not meet the legal requirements for keeping business records.
| ohashi wrote:
| I'm glad I thought about the cached trick on phone sheets. But
| loses all underlying formulas because I got a PDF (which may be
| out of date), but at least it's better than nothing.
| dr_kiszonka wrote:
| I can't help with your current issue, but in the future, you
| could consider backing up your Google Docs using Insync. It can
| automatically convert and store your Google Docs as Office or
| OpenDocument files. Insync has a few quirks, but it usually does
| the job and is very affordable.
|
| (I am not affiliated with Insync.)
| Gibbon1 wrote:
| In the future OP can consider never using a google product for
| anything.
| Animats wrote:
| If this is correct, Google is lying about when they look at your
| data. Google should not be looking at your spreadsheet. They
| claim they don't.[1]
|
| _You decide what content is shared & with whom_
|
| _The content you save on Google Docs, Sheets, & Slides is
| private to you, from others, unless you choose to share it. Learn
| how to share or stop sharing files in Google Docs, Sheets, &
| Slides._
|
| _Google respects your privacy. We access your private content
| only when we have your permission or are required to by law. With
| the Google Transparency Report, we share data about how the
| policies and actions of governments and corporations affect
| privacy, security, and access to information._
|
| _If you have a work or school account, your organization can
| review logs of actions taken by Google when accessing content.
| Learn how to view logs with Access Transparency. Learn how Google
| protects your organization 's security and privacy._
|
| Start by trying to get a log of accesses to the spreadsheet.
| Follow up with a California CCPA complaint.
|
| [1] https://support.google.com/docs/answer/10381817?hl=en
| bragr wrote:
| >Google is lying about when they look at your data
|
| No they aren't. The TOS and similar clearly spell out that they
| have automated checks for malicious content, copy-righted works
| (remember when Google drive was a popular piracy vector for a
| hot second?), CSAM, etc. It's not Google's fault you haven't
| read that, or that you are taking a support article about
| sharing docs with other people and incorrectly extrapolating
| that to the internal technical functionality of google docs.
| The very next sentence after talking about end to end
| encryption:
|
| >Your Google Account comes with built-in security designed to
| detect and block threats like spam, phishing and malware. Your
| activity is stored using strong industry standards and
| practices.
|
| What has likely happened is that one or some of those domains
| probably got hacked and are pushing malicious JS or something
| triggering Google to view them as malicious, so some security
| product looks at a spreadsheet full of "malicious" URLs and it
| got sent into the void for that.
| Animats wrote:
| If their marketing materials say they don't look, but their
| terms of service say say they do, that's false advertising.
|
| This is a paid service. Google is more constrained than with
| a free service.
| tjader wrote:
| > We access your private content only when we [...] are
| required to by law.
| greyface- wrote:
| The ellipsis is doing a lot of work there. The full
| sentence is:
|
| > We access your private content only when we _have your
| permission_ or are required to by law.
|
| They will claim that you gave them permission by
| acknowledging the TOS.
| jokethrowaway wrote:
| A lesson not to do business with Google.
|
| You can't trust them, your business is too small compared to the
| profit, they won't even care.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| It wouldn't matter if it was Google, Dropbox, OneDrive, etc. It
| can happen with any service provider. Always keep local copies
| in a locally editable format.
| bad416f1f5a2 wrote:
| This is true, but I think there's also room for "Google is
| more willing to rely on algorithmic termination than other
| providers, so be extra careful!" to be true as well.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| Where are you getting that from though? I've seen the same
| thing happen with Dropbox more personally but I'm not going
| to make that claim based on my bias.
| bragr wrote:
| >Even as a paying customer, this is pretty embarrassing and there
| seems no recourse is possible?
|
| If you are paying for enterprise support (Google Workspace), you
| have a support path to address this with. If you don't have
| Google Workspace, well now you know why companies shell out for
| the enterprise product instead of playing fast and loose with the
| consumer tier SaaS services.
|
| And before people jump at me for that being unreasonable, I'd
| counter argue that it's unreasonable to expect a company to pay a
| human to spend time helping you, when you only pay the company a
| few dollars, if that, per month.
| ledauphin wrote:
| I'd agree if the assumption was that support was a situation
| commonly caused by user error - i.e. essentially paying for
| lack of user education on the system.
|
| But for situations that should be extremely rare, are extremely
| high impact, and (apparently) are not caused by user error,
| such as dropping user data because of some AI 'algorithm',
| there's no reason at all that that cost can't be amortized
| across the low-paying customer base. Most every other industry
| has some form of support cost amortization built into its
| pricing scheme. This is something Google should be able to
| handle, too.
| nickdothutton wrote:
| Always keep regular backups of anything you store "in the cloud"
| because ultimately it can be gone for an arbitrary reason at any
| time and with no recourse for you. These services can be hugely
| convenient, but if YOU don't have it twice, you don't have it.
| hirundo wrote:
| In my degoogling journey Google Sheets is one of the last
| remainders. Does anyone know a good online alternative? Paid is
| fine.
| wanderingmind wrote:
| Office 365 is online as well. If you want no MAGMA, then look
| into Zoho Sheets. They have fantastic customer support.
| noname120 wrote:
| Good time to remind people that you should regularly backup your
| cloud storages using rclone[1].
|
| It can both backup them locally and from cloud-to-cloud.
|
| [1] https://github.com/rclone/rclone
| vanburen wrote:
| Sorry to hear you lost access to the document, I hope you can
| regain access.
|
| It might be be a good idea to use a tool like Rclone to create a
| local copy of the data going forward. It allows you to download
| Google sheets as .xlsx files.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| I hate to break the news, but as soon as people started relying
| on cloud solutions thinking that they were the same as having a
| local copy then that is why things like this happen. Always keep
| and sync backups of documents into a local format.
| nullc wrote:
| Don't store important data "in the cloud".
|
| They can and will delete it, surveil it, or tamper with it and
| you will have not _practical_ recourse.
| nashashmi wrote:
| Upload it again and see if the issue persists.
| muhehe wrote:
| aka "got another offense and now your account is closed
| forever"
| hyperman1 wrote:
| The cloud does not absolve you from making backups.
|
| Backups are there to protect you not only from technical failure,
| but also from mistakes and random bans from cloud providers.
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(page generated 2022-06-27 23:02 UTC)