[HN Gopher] Archaeologist discovers 6k year-old island settlemen...
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       Archaeologist discovers 6k year-old island settlement off Croatian
       coast (2021)
        
       Author : diodorus
       Score  : 72 points
       Date   : 2022-06-25 16:09 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | wefarrell wrote:
       | I wonder what percent of pre historic large settlements have been
       | found? Probably something like 0.1%. That small sample size and
       | the sparse remains will heavily skew our assumptions about how
       | these societies operated.
        
         | danjac wrote:
         | It's not really the Stone Age but rather the "Wood and Bone
         | Age". The stone settlements, monuments, tools etc just survived
         | better.
        
         | ardit33 wrote:
         | Yep. The reason that a lot of things are found in caves is
         | because they are more likely to be preserved there.
         | Things/settlements in the open field are more likely to be
         | destroyed over time.
         | 
         | In nearby Albania they found a similar ancient settlements
         | after they drained a swamp back in the 50s-60s. Things were
         | preserved on the bottom of the swamp.
         | 
         | https://www.pinterest.com/pin/336925615852463054/
         | 
         | The other major source of findings are tombs and burial sites.
        
         | jl6 wrote:
         | The sea level was lower then. Encroaching water probably
         | destroyed and scattered a great deal of the material that made
         | up previously-coastal settlements - but perhaps not all.
         | Searching in shallow waters a few hundred meters out from the
         | modern coastline is a good strategy.
        
       | jq-r wrote:
       | Very interesting. Google Maps location if anyone is interested:
       | https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9441039,17.1580705,2202m/dat...
        
       | leobg wrote:
       | Someone should train an ML model to discover such sites.
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | They have. Fancy statistical models are getting pretty common.
         | It still requires funding and ground truthing by
         | archaeologists, which are the real bottlenecks.
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | I mean like telling the computer, "Show me more places that
           | look like this". Then, getting a bunch of results, saying yes
           | or no to them as potential candidates, and watching the model
           | get better and better showing you examples which you will
           | confirm to be suitable candidates.
        
             | gdavisson wrote:
             | The problem is that you have to go examine
             | (dig/dive/whatever) the potential sites to get real
             | feedback -- otherwise, you're just training the model based
             | on your own prejudices about what good sites look like.
        
               | leobg wrote:
               | True. And by going there, you might improve your
               | understanding of what good candidate sites look like.
               | Then again, having a longer list of candidates to choose
               | from for such missions might still be helpful.
        
             | AlotOfReading wrote:
             | Yes, that's what I said. The term of art is "archaeological
             | predictive modeling", but basically it's just finding
             | statistical correlations between sites and spatial
             | variables like soil type, water availability, etc. It's
             | been around since the 80s, but a more recent example with
             | ML is [1]. The people who find this most useful are
             | heritage organization / BLM types that want to evaluate the
             | "archaeological risk" of developing land without the need
             | to do expensive surveys.
             | 
             | They're not nearly as useful in research archaeology
             | because research is less focused on finding sites similar
             | to what we already know about and more focused on getting
             | an accurate picture of everything, including the sites not
             | captured by traditional survey methodologies. Predictive
             | modeling has a tendency reproduce your input biases,
             | requiring careful management. A good paper that deals with
             | this sort of problem and illustrates the scale of the issue
             | is [2].
             | 
             | [1] https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0239424
             | 
             | [2] https://doi.org/10.7183/2326-3768.2.3.222
        
               | leobg wrote:
               | Looks like they are picking a set of variables. That's a
               | bit like looking at your past girlfriends, picking some
               | of their features (hair color, hobbies), and then trying
               | to predict from that which woman you're going to fall in
               | love with next. Of course, life will often surprise you
               | in very unexpected ways.
               | 
               | I really just meant looking at satellite images for
               | submerged cities just a few yards offshore, just based on
               | visual similarity.
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | That happens too. However, archaeology tends to run on
               | budgets that can be generously described as "shoestring".
               | Most of the projects I worked on (some years-long), had
               | total budgets less than half my current tech-company
               | compensation. Since I like to work with older stuff, you
               | can look at the sea level chart [1] and see obvious
               | issue. Submersibles just aren't feasible for most
               | research.
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Post-
               | Gla...
        
         | lazyjones wrote:
         | Someone should publish frequently updated, high-quality
         | satellite imagery in the public domain.
        
           | ldng wrote:
           | No they should not otherwise random thieves and/or idiots
           | will raid the site and destroy the real archeological value
           | ...
        
           | leobg wrote:
           | One can see that one on Google Maps
        
           | treeman79 wrote:
           | The best sites are probably 400 feet under water.
        
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