[HN Gopher] The Biggest Disruption in the History of American Ed...
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       The Biggest Disruption in the History of American Education
        
       Author : enraged_camel
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2022-06-25 18:18 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | giardini wrote:
       | tl;dr please.
       | 
       | All I see of interest in TFA is a very predictable request for
       | more money:
       | 
       |  _" Curing the many harms that school closures have imposed will
       | take money--a lot of it."_
        
       | FunnyBadger wrote:
       | Home schooling, Parochial and Private Schools. The only choice.
       | 
       | All my best business partners and nerd friends were one of the
       | above and rarely public school educated.
       | 
       | And force state governments to pay for these as an option instead
       | of public schools. Such school closures with nothing substituting
       | combined with the recent SCOTUS ruling this week mean the door
       | for that is wide open!
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | > All my best business partners and nerd friends were one of
         | the above and rarely public school educated.
         | 
         | This seems extremely anecdotal.
         | 
         | I went to public schools. Of course I'm not your business
         | partner or friend, but most people on Earth aren't either.
        
         | dc-programmer wrote:
         | This reality was intentionally engineered so that ghouls like
         | Devos can make their millions and billions in the inevitable
         | privatization
        
           | dc-programmer wrote:
           | The purpose of no child left behind is to literally close
           | schools in low performing areas. Leaving families no choice
           | but to go with other options.
           | 
           | This is the classic Republican playbook of tearing down
           | institutions not in the name of small government but rather
           | to replace core functions with private offerings. Doesn't
           | hurt in this case they can also stick it to a union at the
           | same time
        
             | MisterMower wrote:
             | If a public school has been delivering failing results for
             | more than a decade, maybe shutting it down isn't such a
             | terrible idea. What's the alternative? Continue to throw
             | money and resources at teachers and administrators who have
             | proven they can't effectively educate students?
        
               | dc-programmer wrote:
               | The answer is not sending them to a unaccredited strip
               | center mall charter school like some people want. Or a
               | bible thumping parochial that doesn't teach evolution.
        
               | MisterMower wrote:
               | So we should keep them in failing schools?
        
               | dc-programmer wrote:
               | If the school is truly rotten sure maybe let's close it.
               | But the problem isn't the schools.
               | 
               | Probably the best thing we could do to produce better
               | educational results is to correct the damage done to city
               | centers by rapid deindustrialization and the war on
               | drugs, and invest in rural communities left behind with
               | infrastructure like broadband. Obviously I don't think
               | either will happen. But just shifting kids around isn't
               | going to do anything (but there is money to made in
               | sectors like edtech)
        
             | rayiner wrote:
             | Public schools are both bad and expensive and it's somehow
             | Republicans' fault. :-/
        
               | dc-programmer wrote:
               | Unironically yes. The war on public schools started when
               | the Feds wouldn't let southerners run their segregation
               | academies. Conservatives have been trying to sabotage the
               | system ever since
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | You are misinformed, if you think it was the
               | "Republicans" who were running the "segregation
               | academies". The problem won't be solved until the
               | partisanship decreases.
        
               | dc-programmer wrote:
               | I said conservatives. I am adequately informed about the
               | mid-20 century party re-alignment of the Dixiecrats. It's
               | not the semantic gotcha you think it is because politics
               | is not a team sport to me.
               | 
               | These folks can't stand that they lost the civil rights
               | battle, the Roe decision (till now), and less remembered
               | the affirmation of the rights of the detained. Maybe
               | there would be less partisanship if they just stuck to
               | trying to lower taxes rather than wage an full assault of
               | personal liberties.
               | 
               | Moderates just want oppressed groups to lay down and take
               | it so their prized stability is not jeopardized
        
               | rayiner wrote:
               | I love how Democrats like to claim there was a
               | "realignment" of the parties in the civil rights era, but
               | then claim The mantle of FDR, who was President decades
               | before the civil rights era.
               | 
               | Also, _Roe_ was decided by 7 Republicans, against the
               | dissent of a Democrat, 40 years after FDR.
        
         | seibelj wrote:
         | You can only have shitty, dilapidated, extraordinarily
         | expensive public schools for so long before the gravy train
         | ends and parents rebel. In Boston we pay some of the highest
         | per-pupil spending in the entire country (~$25k) and they are
         | contemplating putting the entire system under state control
         | https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/state-to-recommend-decl...
         | 
         | It's completely insane how "jUsT GiVe ThE TeAcHeRs MoRe MoNeY!"
         | is argued in good faith when what we have is so absurdly fucked
         | and ruinous.
        
           | zach_garwood wrote:
           | To pick a nit here, when most people say "Give teachers more
           | money," they mean exactly and precisely that, giving a higher
           | salary to the boots on the ground in the classroom. What ends
           | up happening though is that more money goes to the school
           | system, and some paltry amount may trickle down to the
           | teacher, but most if it get's eaten up by principals,
           | superintendents, and an army of other administrators, who do
           | not actually improve outcomes.
           | 
           | It's my firm belief that most of the issues with our
           | educational system would be rectified overnight if every
           | school district halved their administration.
        
             | lapcat wrote:
             | One of the points of the article is that the schools are
             | not just trying to deliver an education, they're also
             | trying to deliver social services to kids.
             | 
             | Why is that? Well, as a society we've decided that adults
             | are generally unworthy of a social safety net, yet we still
             | consider kids to be "innocent", and so instead of helping
             | the parents of the kids, we insist on providing social
             | services directly to the kids in school, bypassing the
             | parents. This adds a lot of cost and layers of
             | administration. And of course poorer kids are more in need
             | of social services, so the poorer schools are often more
             | expensive to run, even factoring in teacher salaries. You
             | can say the schools are "failing", but they're also being
             | asked to do too much.
        
       | wrycoder wrote:
       | There was no reason for this to happen. It was an hysterical and
       | opportunistic response by the public health authorities and the
       | teacher's unions.
       | 
       | As the article stated, the schooling of the elites continued
       | uninterrupted during the pandemic. COVID did not spread
       | uncontrolled into those homes.
       | 
       | Children aren't born civilized. It's the duty of families and the
       | schools to civilize them. With the breakdown of the family over
       | the last fifty years, more and more was dropped on the schools.
       | They were supposed to provide education and increasingly many
       | support services.
       | 
       | When COVID struck, that responsibility was mostly abandoned for
       | the lower and middle classes. Our institutions failed, for no
       | good reason. People are trying to pick up the slack, but the way
       | our society has been restructured, with both parents working,
       | makes it very difficult to provide the education and supervision
       | that the children need.
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | > As the article stated, the schooling of the elites continued
         | uninterrupted during the pandemic. COVID did not spread
         | uncontrolled into those homes.
         | 
         | That's not what the article stated.
         | 
         | "Students with household incomes above $200,000, in contrast,
         | lost about 54 days--still considerable"
        
           | MisterMower wrote:
           | And the very next sentence after that one:
           | 
           | "Many elite private schools, meanwhile, avoided pandemic-
           | related schooling loss almost entirely."
        
             | lapcat wrote:
             | And the very next sentence after that one:
             | 
             | "Of the Forbes top 20 private schools, our research found
             | that 14 met fully in person for the entire 2020-21 school
             | year."
             | 
             | So, 6 of the top 20 private schools did not meet fully in
             | person for the entire school year.
             | 
             | Also, that's talking about 14 schools in the entire county,
             | which is a minuscule number of schools and students.
             | 
             | Moreover, what's the evidence for the claim that "COVID did
             | not spread uncontrolled into those homes"? I'm not saying
             | it did or it didn't, I'm just saying there's no basis
             | whatsoever for this claim.
             | 
             | Anyway, the issue isn't just the homes, it's the teachers.
             | Who wants to die for a job? Nobody signed up for that.
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | If there had been a plague in elite homes, we would have
               | heard about it. (And there aren't all that many elite
               | homes.)
               | 
               | Teaching school during the pandemic isn't some kind of
               | death sentence. Teachers mostly retire before 65, and the
               | vast majority of COVID deaths is people over 65. Solution
               | - stay open, and if a teacher wants to retire at 55 -
               | fund that fully, with Fed help, if necessary.
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | > If there had been a plague in elite homes, we would
               | have heard about it.
               | 
               | Why?
               | 
               | > And there aren't all that many elite homes.
               | 
               | Ok, so why is there any general lesson here? And
               | approximately how many homes are you counting as "elite"?
               | 
               | > if a teacher wants to retire at 55 - fund that fully,
               | with Fed help, if necessary
               | 
               | I eagerly await this policy. Though it's too late for
               | anyone in the 2020-2021 school year. And how do you plan
               | to deal with the resulting teacher shortage? There's
               | actually already a teacher shortage, because many decided
               | to quit in the past couple years.
        
               | wrycoder wrote:
               | > why
               | 
               | Because we hear of everything COVID that helps to raise
               | the fear factor.
               | 
               | And, I don't count teachers paid to sit at home as
               | "teachers".
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | My kid goes to a private school. Not only was it closed less
           | time than the public schools, but when my second grade
           | daughter fell behind in reading (because distance learning
           | doesn't work) she got private 1:1 tutoring every morning to
           | catch up after returning to in person school.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-25 23:02 UTC)