[HN Gopher] 'Anti-hunger' molecule forms after exercise, scienti...
___________________________________________________________________
'Anti-hunger' molecule forms after exercise, scientists discover
Author : echen
Score : 261 points
Date : 2022-06-24 05:20 UTC (17 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (med.stanford.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (med.stanford.edu)
| sto_hristo wrote:
| That is so ironic.
| johnnyApplePRNG wrote:
| I wonder if it's whatever gives you that runner's high...
|
| Stimulants of all kinds suppress appetite.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| It's not. It is probably the thing that gets rid of the runners
| high actually.
|
| Since "Phenylalanine is a precursor for tyrosine, the monoamine
| neurotransmitters dopamine, norepinephrine (noradrenaline),
| epinephrine (adrenaline), and the skin pigment melanin..."
| combining it with lactate destroys this adrenaline high.
| flobosg wrote:
| > It has also been reported that as an additive N-L-lactoyl
| phenylalanine improves the taste of food, conferring an umami
| flavor. It is found naturally in significant amounts in some
| traditional Chinese fermented foods such as preserved pickles and
| soy sauce.
|
| --https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-Phe
| irthomasthomas wrote:
| And yet the received wisdom of centuries says to exercise to work
| up an appetite.
| sdo72 wrote:
| This is what I do all the time when controlling my weight, going
| through long fasting periods. I know for the fact that when being
| active even with 10-15 mins jog, I'm more insulin sensitive and
| it staves off my hunger immediately.
| psiops wrote:
| This would explain why exercise causes weight loss even though
| people with sedentary and active lifestyles seem to burn the same
| amount of calories[1]
|
| [1] https://dupri.duke.edu/news-events/news/herman-pontzer-
| expla...
| benreesman wrote:
| If this is just me whinging then I apologize, but in my own life
| and among some people I know: the insane bifurcation into monster
| fitness where it's more important than your job and "no one
| cares" seems to be a driver of careless weight management.
|
| The standard of being "in shape" has gotten so absurd, and the
| nonlinear payoff around fitness so steep at the "maybe doing some
| pretty extreme shit" cutoff that I'm personally surprised I have
| t just given up, and it seems a lot of people have.
|
| I don't know if it's TikTok, or Marvel movies, or whatever: but
| "fucking mutant superhero" used to one among many attractive
| archetypes.
| znpy wrote:
| > but "fucking mutant superhero" used to one among many
| attractive archetypes.
|
| I've been thinking for a while that male people mostly did not
| receive attention at all from the whole body-positivity
| movement. Which is very relevant, because a lot of people
| strive for a physical condition which might simply be
| unachievable, or they try to reach such body shape in unhealthy
| ways (i've so many friends start using wey powder as a
| significant part of their nutrition without consulting their
| doctor and/or a nutritionist).
|
| In general I think male people would generally benefit from
| some body positivity...
| eastbound wrote:
| The only valid body positivity is having it validated in the
| form of a girlfriend, kids, etc. Before that, any body
| positivity is theoretical.
| Johanx64 wrote:
| TikTok and Marvel movies is all steroids.
|
| It's just steroids & PEDs all around wherever you look.
|
| Getting to low BF% is all very doable though, just keep your
| carb intake to bare minimum.
|
| But getting the shredded/body builder look people asociate with
| weightlifting?
|
| Most of the time that shit is just pure steroids and
| unachievable naturally outside of some very rare 0.01%
| specimen.
| have_faith wrote:
| I don't think I know anyone who looks up to the "mutant
| superhero" aesthetic. I'm guessing this is because all of the
| fit people I know are into lifestyle outdoor sports (hiking,
| climbing, biking, etc) instead of weightlifting and exercise
| focused activies. In the climbing community it's actually the
| opposite: obsession with strength to weight ratio, not getting
| too big etc.
| zelos wrote:
| There is definitely something to this. Basically any man who
| takes their shirt off in a film is generally _ridiculously_
| muscular. As in, a body shape that 's only achievable with
| hours of intense training a day, probably with an expensive
| personal trainer, diet plan etc. I remember an interview with
| Henry Cavill (The Witcher) describing the process of
| dehydrating himself on days before shirtless scenes to enhance
| muscle definition.
|
| I know it affects me. Looking at media 20-30 years ago I don't
| this was as prevalent.
| Johanx64 wrote:
| >As in, a body shape that's only achievable with hours of
| intense training a day, probably with an expensive personal
| trainer, diet plan etc.
|
| It's all steroids. Hours of training and some super rigorous
| diet plan is all a ruse. It's steroids.
|
| People have recovery time, hours of intense training a day is
| physically not possible, atleast not in the way which would
| build muscle for the type of shitless shots.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| People don't want to watch movies with ugly people in them if
| possible. This is why a series like the Witcher has a at
| least a 50/50 general balance in the enjoy.ent if the TV show
| even though the player base of the games is a sausage fest...
| [deleted]
| cnity wrote:
| Something that helped me in all my areas of life is realizing
| that I was attempting to fit myself into the expectations of
| "the internet". I managed to somehow drop this almost
| instantaneously after the realization, and now behaving
| according to my own desires is a constant source of joy.
| benreesman wrote:
| I take your point, but it's not always directly the Internet
| though. The last time I was in ridiculously good shape was
| right before COVID. I was boxing 18 hours a week in 6 3-hour
| sessions with a 23-year-old kid who looked like Ivan Drago's
| son.
|
| I was 6'4", 240lbs, with a body-fat percentage under 15%.
| Athletes routinely exceed that level of fitness, few others
| do. In the 90s I would have been the cut of an NFL tight-end.
|
| But in my vicinity were guys who were _fucking shredded_.
| Younger and older. Those guys were taking something. Anabolic
| steroids? Not sure, but fucking likely.
|
| Now I've got 10-15% less muscle mass but am up to 260lbs. So
| my body fat percentage has slowely but surely crept above
| 20%. And the guys at the gym are even scarier than 3 years
| ago. Blowing joints on absurd weight and being back at it 1-2
| weeks later.
|
| Is this because of the Internet? Maybe. But you don't need
| the Internet to have it all around you.
| IThoughtYouGNU wrote:
| tick_tock_tick wrote:
| I honestly think the opposite, or maybe both are possible at
| once, people have gotten so used to fat people that they seem
| to think people at perfectly healthy weights are underweight.
| baxuz wrote:
| Exactly this. In most of the western world, more than half of
| people are overweight. Being fat is something that is
| starting to get normalized, which is horrible.
|
| And it's not all about the fat. People have become horribly
| weak because of their sedentary lifestyle. Sit at a desk for
| 8h, sleep 8h, sit on the couch for 2h for entertainment, sit
| while eating for 1h.
|
| And it's perfectly understandable that people want to take
| care of their body more than they care about other things.
| It's the only thing that is truly theirs and no amount of
| money can fix it if you don't take care of it.
| anothernewdude wrote:
| Until recently I was morbidly obese. I didn't even think of
| myself as being fat.
| workingon wrote:
| How?
| wccrawford wrote:
| My pet theory? We all see ourselves as an idealized
| version of ourselves that was set a long time ago.
|
| In my case, I was well past the "obese" point on the BMI
| scale, but not "morbidly obese" yet. I thought I was
| overweight, but not badly so.
|
| Then I stopped and took a good look at my BMI and where
| it should be, and decided to diet. I lost some weight
| myself, and then went to a doctor who prescribed a drug
| to help me. I ended up losing almost 70 lbs. I've gained
| about 20 of that back now, but I've been holding (or
| slowly slipping) for quite a few years now, and still
| want to lose again.
|
| I look at old pictures of myself and I'm horrified at how
| fat I was. But at the time, I didn't see a problem.
| chobytes wrote:
| I think its the addictive nature of cardio. Like I definitely
| feel like I _need_ to get out there and get my heart going.
| Takes restraint to rest when I know I need it.
|
| I wonder if we could just induce a little healthy endorphin
| addiction is less fit people to prime them? Haha
| FeaturelessBug wrote:
| I don't know if my own anecdote will help you but I've been
| overweight since I was a child and I've done just about every
| diet under the moon. I used to hate myself and my body, a lot.
| I went to the gym three days a days week pushing myself hard
| and counted calories, and my weight wouldn't budge. I ended up
| developing a lot of disordered eating doing fasting and I
| really thought I could hate myself into being thin. When I
| finally found keto and it worked, I started dropping weight and
| I quickly lost control of my diet and started to starve myself
| in earnest while continuing what exercise I could. After a
| while all I could do was take long walks. I lost 80 pounds in 8
| months doing this, and I was still considered over weight by
| about 60 pounds. I never got any happier with myself by
| changing my body. I still didn't think I was worth anything
| unless I could get tiny. I had really bad brain fog, I stopped
| being able to produce my own body heat, started to have
| fainting spells, and finally heart palpitations. When I went to
| the doctor all they told me is what a good job I was doing
| losing weight and that the palpitations were from my panic
| disorder. I finally stopped keto because my partner sat me down
| and begged me to stop. It was really hard and it took time to
| give it up, but I finally did. I had no real muscle left and I
| was so fatigued... Over the course of a year... I gained all
| the weight back. I still have palpitations sometimes, and I
| will never know what damage yoyo dieting for years did to me.
|
| I don't diet anymore, I've started intuitive eating and my diet
| has improved over all. I eat variety now, more vegetables and
| lots of protein. I also have carbs, and dessert with I want it.
| I've also started doing things for the experience rather than
| to make my body look a certain and ultimately unattainable way.
| I don't focus on how I look anymore, I focus on being strong. I
| am now highly active and doing activities I never thought I
| would be capable of in my fat body. I take dance classes four
| times a week, I lift weights, and I am starting Lyra and aerial
| classes. I also don't step on scales anymore. But I can tell
| you I haven't magically shrunk. I guess what I'm trying to say
| is... Any standard of "in shape" can be impossible for any
| person. We aren't all meant to look that same and I think that
| people are caring less about being overweight because it should
| never have been a limiting factor to you enjoying your life,
| being active, and being well loved by the right people.
| jinjin2 wrote:
| > We aren't all meant to look that same
|
| Is that actually true though? Take a look at the photographic
| evidence of hunter-gatherers. They all largely look the same
| physique wise.
|
| I think there is a good argument, at least from an
| historical/anthropological perspective, that that is how we
| are all meant to look.
| snovv_crash wrote:
| No need to look that far back. Look at pictures/videos of
| random people on the streets in the 1930s.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > Take a look at the photographic evidence of hunter-
| gatherers
|
| I think this would need more development. What do you mean
| by "hunter-gatherers", and what photographic evidence we
| have.
|
| For instance there's African societies which would fit the
| "hunter-gatherer" label (for instance the Akan in Ghana)
| and they're not all looking the same.
| gibagger wrote:
| I don't think denial is the way to go about it if you want to
| live a long and healthy life. If you have been overweight
| since you were a kid, you have an entire lifetime worth of a
| bad relationship with food which needs to be looked at with
| the help of a professional. No temporary diet will help.
|
| Have you ever sought therapy?
| oifjsidjf wrote:
| You are fooling yourself if you think that being fat is
| healthy.
|
| You were on a very good path when doing keto, but why did you
| starve yourself?
|
| There are two kinds of diets that lead to healthy weight
| loss: 1) low-fat high-carb 2) high-fat low-carb
|
| Pick one and stick with it.
|
| But god help you if you will mix large amounts of carbs and
| fats.
|
| Your only mistake is that you starved yourself on keto,
| people have extreme success on keto/carnivore. No need to
| starve yourself.
| andreareina wrote:
| Don't need to go low fat OR carbs to be healthy.
| Restricting a whole macronutrient can help because of the
| effects on palatability and satiety but it's hardly
| required and IME is more likely to result in a worse
| relationship with food.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > You are fooling yourself if you think that being fat is
| healthy.
|
| You are responding to a description of pain and suffering
| through all kinds of diets....with a push to do more diet.
|
| And that, without any better argumentation than "There are
| two kinds of diets that lead to healthy weight loss". At
| this point it's just plain evil.
| oifjsidjf wrote:
| You understood nothing that I wrote.
|
| Obesity leads to an early death.
|
| "Evil"? Trying to show a person that his mistake was
| starving himself when he thinks that keto was the problem
| is evil? Since when is pointing out mistakes that a
| person can use to correct himself evil?
|
| You truly have a warped worldview.
|
| If someone is fat his diet must be changed. There is no
| other way. If you belive that diet==starvation than you
| understand nothing about dieting.
|
| For example, people on a good keto diet do not even
| remotely starve, are fully satiated (after the first 14
| days that the body requires so adjust to this diet, which
| is an annoying period) and lose a lot of weight.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > Obesity leads to an early death.
|
| So does a lot of things, including eating disorders and
| living a miserable life in the first place.
|
| From the parent's post, it's clear that dieting has done
| significant damage, and they got better when they stopped
| caring about that "Obesity leads to an early death."
| mantra:
|
| > I still have palpitations sometimes, and I will never
| know what damage yoyo dieting for years did to me. [...]
| I don't focus on how I look anymore, I focus on being
| strong.
|
| On your general stance on the subject:
|
| > If someone is fat his diet must be changed. There is no
| other way.
|
| This is a text book example of dogma. and if you really
| meant it, I guess there will be no amount of discussion
| that actually leads to anything productive on either
| yours or my side...
| oifjsidjf wrote:
| >So does a lot of things, including eating disorders and
| living a miserable life in the first place.
|
| Obesity is the easiest preventable thing under your
| control that you can directly influence to assure that an
| early death does not come, you are coping and desperately
| trying to twist what I said.
|
| >From the parent's post, it's clear that dieting has done
| significant damage
|
| His incorrect dieting did the damage. You can drive a car
| well or you can drive it without a drivers license and
| crash in the first wall and kill yourself. You are again
| conflating legit dieting with incorrect dieting.
|
| >This is a text book example of dogma. and if you really
| meant it, I guess there will be no amount of discussion
| that actually leads to anything productive on either
| yours or my side...
|
| I cannot write here what I truly wish to say in regards
| to this comment as it would get me banned.
|
| There is no other way to reduce fatness other than with a
| diet change. You do realize that what you wrote makes no
| sense? How do you expect someone to lose weight without
| changing his diet? Unless you have a device at home
| capable or breaking the laws of physics, which I doubt.
| Exercise is hardly of any help for fat loss.
|
| The alternative are surgeries: but think about it: would
| you rather correctly adjust the food you eat or would you
| rather have a piece of you cut out and risking god knows
| what side effects of mutilating your body for having
| delusions of how mother nature designed the human body?
| sgift wrote:
| > Obesity is the easiest preventable thing under your
| control that you can directly influence to assure that an
| early death does not come, you are coping and desperately
| trying to twist what I said.
|
| Do you know this from experience or are you just assuming
| that because controlling your weight is easy it must be
| for everyone?
| Kbelicius wrote:
| Easiest doesn't mean easy.
| sgift wrote:
| Easiest is still as subjective as it gets. I never
| smoked. So, I could say not smoking is the easiest thing.
| I haven't drunk alcohol in years. So, also more easy than
| loosing weight. And so on.
| bavell wrote:
| Swap "easiest" for "simplest" and it's more accurate to
| what OP was trying to convey. Literally all you have to
| do is eat less, that's it. Of course, that's not easy for
| everyone but it sure is simple.
|
| Simple->complex is orthogonal to easy->difficult.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Stress and mental illness is as a pretty big factor in
| health degradation. Reducing that by just not dieting
| seems to me to be the simplest and easiest at the same
| time.
|
| To each their own, there's a lot of ways to look at any
| single situation.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > Obesity is the easiest preventable thing under your
| control that you can directly influence to assure that an
| early death does not come, you are coping and desperately
| trying to twist what I said.
|
| Obesity is not a disease, it's a condition. The
| distinction is important. Some disease can be caused by
| excessive obesity, but being obese doesn't force getting
| these diseases.
|
| Here we don't know anything about someone on the
| internet, and there's no way for us to claim that they
| will have any critical disease due to their potential
| obesity. They might be perfectly fine for the rest of
| their life as they are now. Some studies actually find a
| longer lifespan for people lightly in the "overweight"
| zone.
|
| Basically, reducing weight might not benefit everyone
| "overweight" person.
|
| On the "easiest" part...living a less stressful life is
| also easy, and can be done by not stressing on diets...
|
| > There is no other way to reduce fatness other than with
| a diet change.
|
| My complaint is not as much on the "how" than on the
| "why". From the info we got, there just is no reason to
| reduce fatness in the first place. And then, if there
| were actual reasons, the solutions should be adjusted to
| those reasons. If it's heart diseases, there are more
| efficient means to prevent them (e.g. increasing
| exercice, or changing life habits like sleep patterns or
| reducing salt/adjusting water intake, etc.).
|
| If we really care about health, there is no universal
| advice.
| oifjsidjf wrote:
| Keep coping with these "obesity is not a health issue"
| and "obese people live longer".
|
| Obese people are the only group of people that routinely
| die young.
| nmfisher wrote:
| I don't understand - you went on keto, it worked, then you
| starved yourself and felt rubbish, so you gave up keto?
|
| Why didn't you continue keto without starving yourself?
| catchclose8919 wrote:
| Anecdata: exercise massively reduces my otherwise constant
| craving for processed sugars, deep fried and smoked or cured
| things, alcohol and smokes.
|
| I'm not less hungry, but I'm less hungry for nasty stuff, so from
| my perspective _there seems to be a lot of truth in this!_
|
| Context: I'm natively extremely lazy (phisically, not
| intellectually), I find any phisical activity a pain an a
| nuisance, I derive zero pleasure from any kind of sport and
| phyisical exercise (except hiking and skidiving, but not the
| phisical effort aspects of them), the release-endorphines-on-
| effort circuit is 100% broken for me or I just lack the receptors
| for those endophins... eg. 100%-lazy-cat except not fat because
| genetically I come from a line of people slim-no-matter-what-we-
| eat. (Probably more average or atletic people's bodies just don't
| work like mine...)
| RajT88 wrote:
| More anecdata: For moderate exercise (like maybe an hour on an
| elliptical) I feel the same.
|
| Going past that, into the a few hours of exercise or possibly
| 90 minutes of really intense exercise, I might feel ravenous
| again. Running a marathon? Eating a horse.
| Tenoke wrote:
| Anecdata: I'm way hungrier later in the day after exercising.
| If you look for reddit posts on cutting/dieting you can see a
| lot of people reporting that the extra food craving from
| exercise can frequently be bigger than what you burn with it.
| Machado117 wrote:
| Anecdata: I used to get food cravings after going for a run
| until I started to take a bottle of water with me.
| Sakos wrote:
| I've noticed that I'll massively overeat if I don't get
| enough protein, salt and nutrients. So I'll chug something
| isotonic and eat a bunch of protein mixed with a food-
| replacement powder after running and weightlifting. I end up
| not being hungry the rest of the day.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| This is my experience. I'll swim lanes for an hour, or
| maybe do a 2-3hr bike ride, and afterwards I'll do a
| protein smoothie or maybe bacon and eggs if I haven't yet
| had breakfast, but overall I avoid using the exercise as an
| excuse to eat an "extra" meal.
| potta_coffee wrote:
| My anecdote: type of exercise makes a huge difference. Lots
| of steady-state cardio makes me hungry. After several hours
| of boxing / Jiu Jitsu practice, I have to force myself to
| eat, even several hours after practice has ended.
| mgh2 wrote:
| Could it be an evolutionary adaptation to fight or flight?
| After the exercise period, the body is still in 'active'
| mode, so it may seem that the period to use energy is still
| on (hunting & fleeing, not eating). However, after this ends
| the body switches back into 'inactive' mode to store energy
| for future 'active' modes.
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| Also anecdata: I'm hungry after I exercise, but this is
| almost entire resolved by drinking something cold with a
| electrolytes. A big chug of coconut water for example
| randomdata wrote:
| For me, cardio-type exercises leaves me wanting to eat stupid
| amounts of food afterwards, but strength exercises not so
| much. Perhaps the triggers are more nuanced than an
| overarching concept of exercise?
| radicalbyte wrote:
| Weights kill hunger, especially if you eat lean protein after
| (a shake made with water or low-fat Quark/Kwark). You can
| combine it with high intensity cardio too for burning fat.
|
| Can't wait until the toddler starts school because then I can
| start again.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| one simple way is to just not buy nasty stuff. Sometimes I
| spend 5-6 days with one meal max per day (rice, and raw garlic
| sometimes, that's all I eat), and these intermittent fasting
| are extremely regenerative, no exercise even needed
| kybernetyk wrote:
| >exercise massively reduces my otherwise constant craving for
| processed sugars, deep fried and smoked or cured things,
| alcohol and smokes.
|
| Can confirm your findings in me. After the lockdowns and the
| birth of my son I got a _lot_ fatter. Started exercising just 3
| months ago. My cravings for fast food and snacks disappeared.
| My love for Bourbon is still there but I can control myself
| better and I don't drink anymore. Before exercise I would drink
| one bottle per week ... which was becoming very worrisome to
| me.
|
| > the release-endorphines-on-effort circuit is 100% broken for
| me
|
| I'm also the laziest person I know. My brother who's well read
| into this stuff tells me that once I keep up the exercise
| routine for some time the circuit should come back.
| mmmpop wrote:
| >> Before exercise I would drink one bottle per week
|
| Now that you exercise, I'd hope this seems less excessive?
| When I take time off from running, I cut back on the alcohol
| hard else I feel like absolute shit.
|
| Cardio and beers are what life is about.
| pcthrowaway wrote:
| A bottle of whiskey per week is excessive to the point that
| it might shave decades off your life, regardless of whether
| it comes with exercise.
|
| I drink. Sometimes (rarely) maybe even the equivalent of a
| bottle per week. But let's not kid ourselves
| kybernetyk wrote:
| Haven't touched alcohol in over 3 months. Not really
| tempted to, either.
| catchclose8919 wrote:
| > and the birth of my son [...] Before exercise I would drink
| one bottle per week
|
| It's also the getting used with the little monster, can state
| that from experience... to me at least alchohol was a must-
| have drug to reduce & control rage and aggresiveness induced
| by the little one and all the people that had to be around
| and be interact with... not a peoples person and my natural
| reaction to demanding people is to want to make them go away
| one way or another, with a great temptation to do so
| violently and permanently. (to clarify, was never angry or
| enraged when alone with the baby himself, taken alone the
| little thing was sweet af... only with all the people that
| seemed to suddenly go crazy and become extra "caring",
| "attentive", "demanding" or what not... I like babies, but I
| find other peoples' excessive reactions to them utterly
| disgusting... "baby brain" is a real thing apparently and it
| makes people uttely unsufferabe...)
| fnands wrote:
| Interesting. Yeah, some of my running buddies report no
| appetite for about an hour after running.
|
| I on the other hand am usually ravenous soon after exercise.
|
| When I run more than 20 km I get the kind of bottomless hunger
| I used to have as a growing teenager, but I try to fill up with
| reasonably healthy stuff (sometimes it's fried chicken though).
| nradov wrote:
| Fried chicken isn't necessarily that unhealthy, depending on
| the oil used.
| dorfsmay wrote:
| Are there any oil that is healthy once it's been brought up
| to very high temperature?
| nickff wrote:
| I think you're bringing up one core issue, which is that
| people disagree about what 'unhealthy' means.
| x0x0 wrote:
| +1 anecdata: cardio (though I take my heart rate to 175 bpm
| for 10+ minutes) absolutely makes me not hungry for hours.
| Lifting doesn't affect hunger, though I make sure I get
| enough calories.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| I envy you! I'm no less lazy and hate any physical activity
| maybe except for the ones that give other funs (hiking to
| collect fossils eg), but I'm so overweight...
| michaelgrafl wrote:
| I'm the same. After weight lifting I get a craving for
| nutritious foods and a disgust of highly processed foods.
| Zababa wrote:
| > Context: I'm natively extremely lazy (phisically, not
| intellectually), I find any phisical activity a pain an a
| nuisance, I derive zero pleasure from any kind of sport and
| phyisical exercise (except hiking and skidiving, but not the
| phisical effort aspects of them), the release-endorphines-on-
| effort circuit is 100% broken for me or I just lack the
| receptors for those endophins
|
| It's good to know that I'm not the only one, it's a bit sad to
| know that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it.
| kayoone wrote:
| > It's good to know that I'm not the only one, it's a bit sad
| to know that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about
| it.
|
| Not sure you should see it so negatively/defeatist. Maybe you
| just have not found the right thing yet that gives you joy. I
| discovered my love for road cycling only in my mid thirties
| and now derive immense pleasure from long rides totally
| exerting myself and burning 2000+ calories in many of those
| rides. Lost 10kg of weight and am fitter at 40 then I ever
| was before.
| Zababa wrote:
| Thanks, that helps.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Anecdata^2: nothing reduces my craving for smoked meat. not
| sure excersise was the cause of my disintereset in fried foods,
| or just the realization of negative health benefits. excersise
| however most definitely does not reduce the cravings for
| alcohol. hell, i've been on soccer teams that was just an
| excuse to hang out to drink beer after the game. this wasn't
| world cup level, but we definitely worked out during play.
|
| in other words, to me, there's just too many differences to
| make conclusions
| mmmpop wrote:
| I'm still prone to overeating when I'm in a lifting phase and
| since those come and go in spurts, I've never been able to tame
| that.
|
| On the other hand, I've been a 3+ hour a week cardio guy for a
| decade and when I first got started at 20+ mile a week running,
| I would eat away any caloric "gains" by 2x. I no longer have
| those issues and, like others have pointed out, I tend to lose
| my appetite for awhile after a run/ride. The harder the effort,
| the less appetite I'll have.
| 121789 wrote:
| Yep. Cardio makes me less hungry for a short period of time
| after exercise, then ravenous later in the day. I don't
| notice any effects on hunger from lifting
| AlbertCory wrote:
| I wrote a three-part series of articles on "50 Years of
| Running" [1], and the issue of motivation is specifically
| addressed, since how else would you keep up something for 50
| years?
|
| It's not at all about eating, and I'm honestly not sure it'll
| help you, but the tag in the first article is:
|
| _If you can 't find time to exercise, you'll have to find time
| to be sick._
|
| [1] https://albertcory50.substack.com
| fny wrote:
| I suspect that your distaste for junk food specifically has a
| psychological component as well. The molecules discussed here
| are formed _immediately_ post exercise. From what I gather,
| they are responsible for a short term antihunger effect not a
| long term effect.
| NickM wrote:
| Just because the effect might not be caused by the one
| specific molecule discussed in the article doesn't mean it's
| necessarily psychological.
| fny wrote:
| I have been to enough beer runs to question OP.
| feet wrote:
| My guess would be that's related to endorphins. They help feel
| satisfied, happy, content, and more positive mood in general
| kbouck wrote:
| (Anecdata): The past few years I've oscillated between periods
| of consistent exercise and then periods of inactivity and I
| definitely notice a pattern wrt hunger.
|
| recent periods:
|
| 1. a period of months of inactivity.
|
| 2. a period of multiple months of morning exercise (running
| soon after waking, before any food)
|
| 3. a period of multiple months of inactivity
|
| 4. a period of multiple months of running again
|
| The pattern I experience is clear: during the periods of
| exercise, after morning running, I don't feel any need/urge to
| eat breakfast. Easily skippable.
|
| During periods of inactivity, my body craves breakfast. Not
| skippable without significant willpower.
| gruez wrote:
| I don't know, it seems equally plausible that the two are
| caused by a common factor. Specifically, "you being motivated
| to be healthy" causes you to want to exercise more and gives
| you stronger willpower to resist eating unhealthy foods.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| And it will always be anecdata since the creation of lac-phe
| after working out is dependent on both your CNDP2 genetics and
| your intake of manganese which is the cofactor for that enzyme.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Yeah I found the same. After I did the exercise grind for a bit
| of time I suddenly found out that my cravings for usual
| unhealthy foods have been reduced.
|
| My trainer and doctor say that we have various receptors in our
| bodies tuned for our current way of life and that diet and
| exercise re-program these receptors which, yeah, is what I
| observed as well.
|
| RE: your lack of motivation for working out, I found it is
| related to the type of exercise. The start of my journey was a
| series of train wrecks. I constantly stumbled on 22-year old
| boys whose wisdom was "get on the bench press, bro!" which
| didn't work for me. It was almost harmful even.
|
| After going to physiotherapy for a while I then started
| training under the tutelage of the same people and I am already
| better. They are very careful not to over-strain me, give me
| just enough cardio to keep my heart pumping but not to make me
| wanna die, exercises are carefully tuned to strain me a bit but
| never too much. They don't give me big pauses between exercises
| (60 - 90 seconds) however. Some exercises are mostly stretching
| and "activating" a certain muscle (meaning just exercising it a
| little without any strain).
|
| Not sure I can translate that to a workout strategy for you but
| these items might help:
|
| - Do 3 series of each exercise. If it's too much then 2;
|
| - Do more reps per series;
|
| - Rest until your heart calms down slightly but not beyond
| that;
|
| - Introduce a hard cap on the workout session -- mine is 1
| hour. This was a huge struggle because I wanted to do all the
| exercises but there's no way to fit all in 1 hour (did that
| mistake several times);
|
| - Start with slight cardio -- 5 or 10 minutes. Don't make it
| the focus of the session, it's just to start you off (a mistake
| I made many times);
|
| - The moment you start feeling a tormenting strain is the
| moment where you train for 2-3 more minutes and cut the session
| short;
|
| - If that moment doesn't come, still stop at your time cap.
|
| The main point is to feel energetic and rejuvenated after the
| workout. Not "OMFG I wanna die!". My trainer / physiotherapist
| / masseur told me this is an extremely common problem for men
| because a lot of them just hang out in the gym and their main
| motivation is show-off and competition with others. He says
| there's a million ways to make yourself feel better by
| exercising and honestly? I believe him because it is happening
| to me.
|
| Finally, it's the most normal thing in the world to fine-tune
| the exercise session to your specifics and you shouldn't try
| and imitate other workout regimes if they don't work well for
| you. My trainer quickly found out I have strong arms, shoulders
| and upper back and is rarely giving me exercises for them --
| just for maintaining them a bit. But my legs, abs and lower
| back are weaker so 80% of my exercises focus on that. Works
| great.
|
| If you are willing to press on, I wish you good luck. I am
| exactly like you, I view physical maintenance as nuisance and
| it's not easy to change the mindset. But I already started
| having that little little voice in my head that's sometimes
| nudging me to do a session because I know it makes me feel a
| bit better after.
|
| In programming terms, I'd say reduce the size of the
| program/tests until it's manageable for you. My trainer said
| it's much better to train every day for just 35-40 minutes
| compared to two workouts of our and half a week.
| kybernetyk wrote:
| I'm 40 and I recently started Stronglifts 5x5. It's stupidly
| simple and makes me want to come back for more as the weights
| increase every training. So there's always a personal record
| to break.
|
| It also doesn't take a lot of time. About 45 - 60 minutes, 3
| times a week. I can do it in my home gym as everything I need
| is a barbell, some weights and a bench/squat rack.
|
| First time I actually have fun weight lifting/going to the
| gym.
| Nathanael_M wrote:
| I started with Stronglifts! It's the program that finally
| gave me a degree of health and made lifting
| enjoyable/satisfying. Eventually went to something a little
| less leg heavy (although squats will always be my favourite
| exercise) with a better system for breaking plateau's and
| more accessories, but Stronglifts was what finally made the
| gym fun.
| kybernetyk wrote:
| Yeah, people in online forums tend to dunk on Stronglifts
| because it's not sophisticated, very leg heavy, the
| author is very opinionated, etc.
|
| But the simplicity is what made me stick with it in the
| beginning. It's a beginner's program and it's great at
| that.
|
| I'll be switching to something more elaborate later down
| the road but for the time being SL is pretty good.
| catchclose8919 wrote:
| Thanks for the advice, but _I hate cardio and running and
| aerobic exercise especially_. Bench pressing and "cardio but
| done 'worng'" - eg. heavy biking or thredmill running, but
| with rare/insufficient breathing. Maybe swimming.
|
| Problem is I fee either afraid I'm doing the exercises wrong
| so I stop doing them, or I find others impractical (eg.
| swimming or freediving).
|
| Probably I should research into anaerobic that are actually
| considered helpful or somethig, since my brain seems to
| dislike the least these low-oxigen-effort types of exercises.
| Dunno...
|
| _It 's frustrating because all the exercise advice I find
| seems targeted at people that are practically a whole
| different species from me..._
| pdimitar wrote:
| That will not help you of course but before I began I hated
| all exercise with all my heart. It will pass if you keep at
| it though. :)
|
| That "hate" is just hormonal dis-balance. And yeah I know
| that explanation doesn't help because you can swear on
| everything that's sacred that this is exactly who you are
| and it can't be false... But yeah, it still is false and no
| that's not you. Hormones are a b1tch, a chemical
| programming agent that's specifically designed to lie to
| our brains. It's how we're wired.
|
| Not trying to convince you of anything. I know how I felt 6
| months ago and I know nobody and nothing could have changed
| my mind back then; I would have likely physically lashed
| out at somebody if they tried to press the matter even.
|
| I am only here to tell you that it can get better even if
| you are 100% sure that it can't. That feeling is false and
| it's our brain trying to avoid a change and that's why it
| fills us with doom scenarios and unreasonable hate to the
| source of the change. It's still just a facade for "but I
| don't wanna, I am comfy now!" and that facade can fall
| relatively easily.
|
| > _It 's frustrating because all the exercise advice I find
| seems targeted at people that are practically a whole
| different species from me..._
|
| Nope, you just don't belong to the statistically
| significant group, that's all there is to it. If you keep
| looking you'll find your exact alien homies. ;)
| Bjartr wrote:
| > The main point is to feel energetic and rejuvenated after
| the workout.
|
| The only thing a workout has _ever_ made me feel is sore and
| tired. Light or heavy, long or short, cardio or strength.
| Doesn 't matter, that only changes how sore and how tired I
| am after, and how long those feelings last.
|
| I'd exercise way more if I ever felt "energetic and
| rejuvenated" after a workout. The only thing keeping me doing
| it is knowing how critically important it is to me long term
| cardiovascular health.
|
| Some context: I'm overweight and could definitely stand to be
| more active. But I do value exercise and a couple of months
| ago started going to fitness classes, have played sports
| casually but regularly in the past, used to regularly go to a
| gym, and have dabbled with a few different kinds of home
| workout, including running. The game aspect of sport is fun,
| but the physical activity involved still only left me sore
| and tired.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Wish I could help you but I'm not a therapist myself.
|
| One thing I really have to assure you of however: there IS
| a way to feel energetic after a workout, you just haven't
| found it yet.
|
| Had the same problem, eventually got fed up and went to
| physiotherapy and doctors to see if something's wrong with
| me -- and yes, actually there are a few things wrong with
| me that prevent me from reaping more benefits of exercise.
|
| I'm working hard on addressing these deficiencies (one of
| them is a pre-diabetic condition; it's absurdly hard to
| reverse this thing).
|
| Treat your health like a program that both has a bug and
| broken dependencies: you have to do a deep dive to solve
| the problem.
|
| Please don't give up. The fight is very hard but the result
| is worth it. I'm probably 10% into my journey and I already
| know I'm never giving up.
| kayoone wrote:
| the more you do it, the more your body will adapt and then
| after smaller workouts, say a 30min run in the morning, you
| will start feeling energized instead of tired, as your time
| to tire yourself out increases over time. I have to say
| that I kinda like the feeling of achievement afterwards and
| also like feeling sore and tired for some reason. That's
| also the only time when I allow myself unhealthy food
| nowadays and don't even feel bad about it. I lost 10kg and
| am fitter at 40 then ever before.
| nradov wrote:
| What's wrong with being sore and tired?
| justinator wrote:
| I actually love being sore and tired. In my 20s I'd ride
| a bike until my legs fell off and would revel in just
| laying down in complete exhaustion. Not much has changed,
| 15 years later.
|
| What has changed is my appetite- an all day bike ride
| used to be followed by a giant pizza; now it's just a
| normal meal. My all day hikes are somewhat challenging
| even wanting to eat. A variety of tastes at my disposal
| (sweet, salty, sore, bitter, savory, Unami) helps.
|
| I'm almost 190lbs these days and muscular. I started out
| much lighter.
| Bjartr wrote:
| In this context it's counter to the GP's posting that
| exercise is followed by feeling energetic and
| rejuvinated.
|
| I do not want to feel sore or tired (I think "fatigued"
| might be a better word choice than "tired" here for what
| I was trying to communicate).
|
| They are not pleasant sensations. They limit what other
| things I can do while experiencing them. Their presence
| is a negative reinforcement against exercising again.
| Plus I feel ripped off when so many others rave about how
| good exercise makes them feel while it just makes me feel
| crummy.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| > The only thing a workout has ever made me feel is sore
| and tired.
|
| Just backing up what others are saying, I think it's a
| combination of it being an acquired taste, and also finding
| what works for you.
|
| For me, I love swimming and cycling and get nearly all my
| cardio that way, but running or lifting weights? Just
| leaves me feeling defeated and in pain.
| [deleted]
| FpUser wrote:
| I've "discovered" it long time ago. Basically if I feel hungry
| but do some activity instead of eating the hunger disappears.
| Does not work on long cardio activity though. Anything longer
| than 2-3 hours (assuming it is not a leisure walk) exhausts my
| reserves and makes me hungry for real.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| You know what this tells me? Manganese deficiency probably plays
| a role in metabolic disorders and trouble losing weight with
| exercise.
|
| CNDP2, the enzyme that helps make lac-phe
| (N-[(S)-lactoyl]-L-phenylalanine) needs manganese as a cofactor.
|
| https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q96KP4
|
| If you are deficient in Manganese, or need more Manganese because
| genetics, they you will not make as much lac-phe after working
| out.
|
| And indeed they find that manganese deficiency is related to
| metabolic disorders.
|
| https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...
|
| https://academic.oup.com/jn/article-abstract/115/7/919/47559...
| chobytes wrote:
| Yeah I believe it. I cycle like 100 miles a week on an entry
| level road/gravel bike... And Id say my hunger oscillates between
| large extremes from it.
|
| I definitely crave horrible sugary food and salt from doing like
| a 3h ride... but between rides when Im recovered I often wont
| even _want_ a snack or anything if offered.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _"We estimate that the lac-phe pathway is responsible for about
| 25% of the anti-obesity effects of exercise," Long said._
|
| I find this article annoying. It should come as no surprise that
| there is a mechanism for suppressing appetite during physical
| activity. There is only so much blood to go around and both
| digestion and exercise place demands on the blood supply.
|
| It would be a hardship to place both demands on the body at the
| same time consistently.
| have_faith wrote:
| > I find this article annoying.
|
| Why is it annoying? confirming unsurprising results is
| important.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Because it's framed like research for a potential weight loss
| pill rather than research into the mechanism behind the
| fairly well-known fact that people typically have less
| appetite while being physically active.
|
| I hate the tendency to frame everything in terms of a pill to
| fix our problems and/or a get rich quick scheme as a
| substitute for trying to figure out how to live right.
| vosper wrote:
| You're absolutely right about the quality of the submitted
| article. It's written like low-grade clickbait tech
| "journalism". It's even worse than the battery-
| breakthrough-of-the-week university PR pieces that get
| posted here.
|
| I imagine the research is good and useful. Pity about the
| way it's been presented.
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| It is actually more important than you thing since it links
| manganese to metabolic syndrome.
| BrianOnHN wrote:
| Anecdata: for the past decade, my preferred way to begin a
| ketosis regimine has been a long run to "burn off remaining blood
| sugar" based on the old-wisdom of "the body starts to utilize fat
| after 30min of intense exercise."
|
| This seems to work great. Fewer cravings.
|
| I've even taken a this a step further. Running on the first
| morning of a 3-day fast. Works the same.
|
| Note: I wouldn't recommend doing the above without carefully
| managing electrolytes. But, anyone who's been keto successfully
| for more than a month should understand what I mean about
| managing electrolytes.
| pjmorris wrote:
| Could you point to a link or such regarding 'managing
| electrolytes?' I took my desk-bound self on a four day
| Appalachian Trail hike with friends recently and burned out
| hard at the end of the second day (~2600 ft elevation gain,
| sunny, hot) and am pretty sure dehydration was at the core.
| Some fellow hikers bailed me out with extra water spiked with
| Propel (~Gatorade), and I was fine the next day, but I'd like
| to be equipped with both supplies and understanding the next
| time I try something like that.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| So you weren't eating on the trail?
|
| When you stop eating carbs, body uses carbs, carbs contain
| water, body removes water (think 4kg of water), the water
| removes electrolytes, you get "sick". A spoon of table salt
| in water fixed it once for me.
| nradov wrote:
| Electrolytes is mainly sodium, plus a little magnesium and
| potassium. Dehydration can be an issue, but drinking more
| plain water won't replace sodium lost in sweat. You can buy
| electrolyte powders to mix in your water. Or just eat some
| salty food occasionally.
|
| https://drinklmnt.com/pages/ingredients
|
| Bonking hard on a moderate intensity activity can be a
| symptom of a messed up metabolism which can't produce enough
| energy from stored fat. If you want to check for sure you can
| visit a sports medicine lab for a metabolic profile test
| where they measure how much fat versus carbohydrates you burn
| at various effort levels. The usual recommendation to shift
| your metabolism to be more fat adapted is to do a lot more
| long Zone 2 (below ventilatory threshold) workouts but it can
| take years to see major changes.
|
| Sports drinks can be helpful to keep you going when you're
| struggling, but they tend to contain a lot of sugar and
| aren't ideal for daily consumption.
| mcculley wrote:
| I normally eat only once per day and occasionally go 2-3 days
| without food. I use these electrolytes:
| https://www.hammernutrition.com/endurolytes-fizz
|
| I notice a big difference in energy as long as I am drinking
| plenty of water and 1-2 of these per day, especially after a
| run.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| The average American eats enough salt and potassium in their
| diet that they don't need to "manage electrolytes" unless they
| are going well beyond 30 mins of intense cardio...
| NickM wrote:
| Potassium deficiency is actually very common. It's extremely
| hard to get the recommended daily amount of potassium in your
| diet, as even high-potassium foods like bananas contain only
| ten or fifteen percent of the recommended daily intake per
| serving.
|
| As far as I can tell, this is mainly a problem due to modern
| farming practices resulting in less nutritious produce; there
| have been studies done on the vitamin mineral content of food
| over the last century, and there has been a steady decline in
| a number of different nutrients, including potassium.
|
| The trouble is, it's also hard to supplement. To avoid
| stomach issues, over the counter potassium supplements are
| limited to 99mg in the US, which is only a few percent of the
| recommended daily intake. If anyone has any good suggestions
| on how to regularly get enough potassium, I would love to
| hear them.
| alexc05 wrote:
| The average American isn't eating a ketogenic diet.
| nradov wrote:
| People on ketogenic diets frequently add salt to their
| food. Red meat contains a decent amount of potassium.
| belter wrote:
| Not paying 32 bucks for the study, but it seems the study was
| mostly done on mice. We share 99% percent of genes with mice but
| hope the 1% are important enough :-)
|
| The abstract mentions the effect also occurs on humans and
| horses, without further details if they were part of the study,
| or if is just well known. It could be a temporary effect.
|
| If you are trying to lose weight, change diet before starting
| with exercise. When at the proper weight, use exercise to keep at
| the correct level.
|
| Several studies compared two groups. One group changed just diet,
| and other used diet and exercise from the beginning. Faster
| weight loss noticed in the group just doing a diet change and not
| doing increased exercise.
|
| The assumption that the increase of exercise, might call for
| additional cravings, even if of a different type of food.
|
| [1] "...For weight loss, diet seems to be more effective than
| physical activity,"... "You have to do huge amounts of physical
| activity to lose weight, but you can get a better energy deficit
| just by cutting down on calories..." ...
|
| "...So both diet and physical activity are important,"..."Diet
| probably more important for losing weight. Physical activity for
| keeping it off..."
|
| [2] "...Despite the prevailing advice, exercise is pretty
| unhelpful for weight loss..."
|
| [1] "Mayo Clinic Minute: Which is better for losing weight - diet
| or exercise?":
| https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-mi...
|
| [2] "Why you shouldn't exercise to lose weight, explained with
| 60+ studies": https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11518804/weight-loss-
| exercise-...
| oriolid wrote:
| The whole point is that people who do not have a fixed diet
| would spontaneously eat less after exercise because they do not
| feel hungry. This by the way matches my personal experience and
| there are several other comments saying the same thing.
| 0xfeba wrote:
| As the saying goes: "weight is lost in the kitchen, muscle is
| gained in the gym"
|
| Personally, my own experience (and that of a few close friends)
| is that if you want to lose weight it's going to suck. No easy
| way to do it, you have to go hungry. There are some low-cal
| fruits and vegetables, or other things you can try to lessen
| the hunger. But this popular notion that you can just change a
| few things you eat and still eat 3+ meals a day on some special
| "diet" is wrong. I don't understand why it perseveres.
| beeboop wrote:
| I know plenty of people, including myself, that have lost
| weight without feeling hungry. It takes a lot of consistency
| in eating lots of vegetables and high protein foods. But I
| recognize that that this is highly dependent on the person
| and many (most?) people may not have this experience.
| audeyisaacs wrote:
| Exercise is important for general health and fitness too,
| though. Holding off on starting exercise seems foolish when it
| has so many benefits. Count calories, but don't wait to
| exercise.
| belter wrote:
| See my reference [2] for the 60 studies analyzed plus the 9
| specialists interviewed. It's not about not recommending
| exercise, but about the fastest way to get back to a more
| healthy weight, then add exercise to complement and maintain.
|
| If a subject is already severely overweight, adding exercise
| could compound the risks.
| Hellbanevil wrote:
| kybernetyk wrote:
| >Faster weight loss noticed in the group just doing a diet
| change and not doing increased exercise.
|
| Did they track muscle mass? Because from personal anecdata:
| When I change diet and don't excercise I tend to lose "weight"
| faster (as weight on a scale) but a lot of that weight loss is
| from muscle mass. Just dieting makes me "skinny fat".
|
| When I exercise (resistance training like weight lifting -
| cardio is uslesess) I tend to lose weight on the scale slower
| but I look better and my muscle mass increases. I also feel
| _way_ better than on a restrictive diet.
| MrPatan wrote:
| I've observed something like this on myself. I eat less, and
| better, when I exercise.
|
| I don't know if you can outrun a bad diet, but maybe you can lift
| it.
| arcticbull wrote:
| And yet folks who exercise also end up having acute compensatory
| eating. [1] Your body is designed to maintain homeostasis.
|
| Exercise is not how you lose weight, changing your diet up to and
| including fasting is. Exercise is good for you in a whole lot of
| other ways, but the idea you can outrun a bad diet is pretty
| thoroughly debunked at this point.
|
| [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19419671/
| paskozdilar wrote:
| > Exercise is good for you in a whole lot of other ways, but
| the idea you can outrun a bad diet is pretty thoroughly
| debunked at this point.
|
| Perhaps you can't "outrun" a bad diet, but you can certainly
| out-lift it.
|
| Weight training leads to stronger muscles, stronger muscles
| spend more energy, more energy spent leads to losing weight.
| arcticbull wrote:
| This is another one of those fun little half-truths.
|
| > 10 pounds of muscle would burn 50 calories in a day spent
| at rest, while 10 pounds of fat would burn 20 calories [1]
|
| 50 pounds of fat burns 100 calories per day.
|
| 10 pounds of muscle burns 50 calories per day.
|
| If you lose 50 pounds of fat and replace it with 10 pounds of
| muscle, you're net 50 calories per day. About 1/10th of a
| Starbucks muffin.
|
| Not eating a Starbucks muffin is the same as having 90 extra
| pounds of muscle. You'd have to look like John Cena for this
| to make any difference whatsoever. But you're never going to
| look like John Cena unless you adjust your diet.
|
| The _only_ way to lose fat is to change your diet.
|
| [1] https://www.webmd.com/diet/obesity/features/8-ways-to-
| burn-c...
| glenngillen wrote:
| I'd heard this for years and was quite the skeptic. I'd hit the
| gym pretty consistently in my late teens and cycled a lot and
| kept a pretty consistent weight irrespective of what I ate.
| Over the better part of 20 years the only real fluctuations
| were during extended travel periods where both diet was bad and
| exercise non-existent. But multiple marathons, extended focus
| on weight training, picking up various sports again, and I'd
| oscillate in about a 3kg range.
|
| And then my wife had to go on an extended elimination diet to
| deal with gastrointestinal issues and I joined as moral
| support. In the space of a month, with absolutely no exercise
| happening, I dropped 10kgs. And I don't think I'd ever felt
| healthier. As soon as I got back to running I was as quick as
| I'd ever been, no great surprise I guess given how much lighter
| I was.
|
| Turns out the biggest impact I could have on my health was
| being more conscious of what I was eating. I couldn't out run
| what I was putting in my mouth, no matter the distances I was
| putting in.
| joshu wrote:
| my trainer says "you can't outrun a cheesburger." i should
| probably stop showing up with mcdonalds
| bennyelv wrote:
| Anecdata warning - you actually can! The problem with
| trying to outrun a cheeseburger is that you probably need
| to be quite fit to do it.
|
| It works like this: If you're unfit, your capacity for
| output during exercise is less. If you're fitter, your
| capacity for output during exercise is higher.
|
| An unfit person doing exercise, will therefore burn
| significantly fewer calories than someone who is fit if
| they exercise for the same duration at the same perceived
| effort.
|
| If I go for a hard 1 hour bike ride, I burn 3
| cheeseburgers. An unfit person will struggle to burn much
| more than 1 despite working as hard as they can.
| count wrote:
| This seems to run counter to what I see in data based on
| heart rate at least. As you get more fit, your cardio
| conditioning level goes up, which means you are
| substantially more efficient in exercise. When you're not
| efficient, you'll burn more calories doing the same work.
| snovv_crash wrote:
| The key here is at equal perceived effort. An unfit vs.
| fit person putting in 100% for an hour is a very
| different story.
| hardwaresofton wrote:
| Agreed on all points, but just want to point out that it would
| be ideal if you could supplement dieting with effective hunger
| suppression though --- their work towards isolating lactate and
| phenylalanine as signals towards hunger suppression is pretty
| impressive if it can give a foothold in that area.
| asdff wrote:
| People doubting the power of caloric deficit need to watch
| _Alone_. People scarcely bringing in one squirrels-worth of
| calories a day while laboring around camp are just sloughing
| off the weight on that show. Some have gotten pulled for
| medical because they were losing it too fast and stressing
| their heart. One guy lost 86 pounds in 67 days.
| xorfish wrote:
| That is not a good rate to lose weight. A rate of ~1% per
| week for 3-4 months followed by 1-2 months of maintenance
| before the next weight loss phase is much more sustainable
| and you are more likely to not gain back the weight after the
| target weight is achieved.
| asdff wrote:
| Yeah its a terrible way to lose weight, that's why stickies
| on places like bodybuilding forums encourage a moderate
| deficit plus exercise to maintain bone and organ health
| (1). But it goes to show that with a deficit you will shed
| weight. There is no special sauce in individual metabolism
| that makes energy from nothing at the end of the day.
| Losing weight is a matter of thermodynamics.
|
| 1.
| https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=165843261
| arcticbull wrote:
| This seems to be folk wisdom, but is it supported by any
| actual data?
| benreesman wrote:
| You sound knowledgeable about this: I personally find that even
| when I'm having trouble controlling caloric intake as well as
| I'd like that sharp reductions in simple carbohydrates and
| sugars seem to help with weight loss even if my envelope math
| seems to indicate comparable total calories?
|
| Is this just bad measurement or is there anything to that?
| make3 wrote:
| research show that people are apparently terrible at
| evaluating how many calories they take, even dieticians. by
| cutting more addictive food, it's possible that you're
| actually eating less than your otherwise would, even if the
| numbers don't seem to add up
| bavell wrote:
| Sounds to me like it's due to the ease of digesting simple
| carbs vs complex carbs, which require more digestion to
| process. I think with complex carbs your net calories gained
| are actually lower than what the nutrition label says since
| they require some amount of calories to digest.
| thesz wrote:
| As I said elsewhere here, it is not the case for me - I quite
| often experience food aversion after exercise (weight
| training).
|
| I exercise in fasted state, 14-18 hours of fast. If exercise is
| especially hard, I found food not attractive at all, neither
| how it looks or how it smells. I have to force myself to eat
| when this happen and usually eat less.
|
| On bright side, I've found that I recover faster after exercise
| bouts when I'm in fasted state.
|
| I also have to note that was not the case when I was younger
| and performed my training routines after being fed. When I
| exercised being fed I experienced hunger and wanted to eat.
| elwesties wrote:
| It's funny, they way I describe the relationship I have with
| weight loss is exercise is that the exercise is giving you the
| reason to eat clean. You won't want to make that effort worth
| nothing. It's not the same for everyone but I certainly notice
| it
| cehrlich wrote:
| This is my experience as well. Going on a long run if you ate
| garbage the day before feels terrible, so you get conditioned
| to eat clean.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| Hahaha what?
|
| Sorry, but the term dirty bulking, and the existence of "eat
| big to get big" videos among the body builder community shows
| that many in the high end to elite strata of weight training
| not only just don't eat clean, but they also get their
| enjoyment and muscle from the absolutely nasty food they eat
| as part of it (... Yes and roids)
|
| https://youtu.be/PX33LjIMQoA
| dhedberg wrote:
| For me personally I have noticed that exercising helps me by
| modulating my food cravings.
|
| I'll get hungry of course, but in a way where I'm more happy
| just eating some reasonable amount of actual food instead of
| stuffing myself with a bag of crisps or worse.
|
| This might also be psychological; it feels good after
| exercising so I feel more inclined to stay on the path.
|
| The result, either way, is that while I know from experience
| that just changing my diet works to lose weight, it becomes a
| lot easier to keep it up when also exercising.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I think this must be common knowledge. If I go on a long hike, I
| am not really hungry for a couple of hours afterwards. Often
| people I hike with want to immediately after the hike get food. I
| used to often skip going to a restaurant because I was not
| hungry, then decided as a practice to go anyway to be more
| "social."
| Vinnl wrote:
| Why would it be common knowledge, if many people you hike with
| have food cravings immediately after a hike?
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| The people I hike with like to go to a restaurant after
| hiking as another social event. I have talked with a few
| people who experience a lack of hunger after a lot of
| exercise, but maybe it is not common knowledge. A few other
| commenters here mentioned the same effect.
| Tade0 wrote:
| Now that I am a parent I often eat work for breakfast.
|
| I've found that two things cause massive hunger in my case: a
| diet rich in added sugar/salt and being tired. The latter usually
| comes after extended exercise, so appears to be counterproductive
| for weight loss. Other benefits still apply though.
|
| Just dropping added sugar/salt now that my child eats solid food
| helped a lot though. One benefit is a heightened (or actually:
| not dulled) sense of taste.
|
| I'm currently on a "cheat week" and it's already getting annoying
| that food doesn't taste as good.
|
| Dietitians say this again and again: even the best diet is no
| good if you can't keep to it.
| lm28469 wrote:
| > The latter usually comes after extended exercise
|
| If you're in shape and get enough sleep a moderate amount of
| exercise shouldn't make you tired. Being a parent might
| contribute more to the tiredness though
| freiherr wrote:
| >Does this finding hold promise for that ever-elusive diet pill?
| I wonder what will go wrong this time with side-effects. Maybe
| overeating rebound after it gets out of the system. That would
| resemble natural compensation of calories after activity is
| finished.
|
| From personal experience I recommend saturated fat (mostly from
| beef tallow) as an anti-hunger molecule. With as little as
| possible omega-6 in the diet. And carnivore. Works wonders. My
| satiety base level is now set so that I get down to ~12% bf in a
| reasonable time when I'm above that. Could also bulk up to a
| powerlifting competition on this diet no problem when necessary.
| eixiepia wrote:
| Can confirm that carnivore work wonders. I have been on the
| diet for 7 years and have never been in better health. But I
| will say that people should be careful with "extreme" diets as
| I was vegan for years and this completely wrecked me, including
| my teeth. I did the radical shift to canivore out of
| desperation, but that saved my life.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Yes, just tried bulking on a 6 week program and was very
| impressed with carnivore.
| a3w wrote:
| Meat very slightly causes cancer. Saturated fats reduce your
| life expectancy, too.
|
| Not that good advice I guess?
| gadders wrote:
| Obesity causes cancer as well:
| https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-
| canc...
| blfr wrote:
| Check the studies you're relying on for this information.
| Most are confounded by people simply eating fast food.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| And fast food is different because... ?
| blfr wrote:
| Lots of crappy carbs and added sugar on the side with
| generally low quality ingredients compared to what anyone
| caring about their diet would eat.
|
| Most people don't have the dedication of a body builder
| carefully eating only patties from the burgers. Which
| would probably work.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Feel free to try it and change your life for the better.
| You can start with keto diet which is less extreme.
| Judgmentality wrote:
| My friend's dad was just diagnosed with stage 3 renal
| failure and his doctor is emphatic his diet is the
| culprit. He'd been an advocate of the keto diet for
| years.
|
| Biology is complicated and different people will have
| different results. I'm glad it's working for you but
| please exercise caution before assuming it will help
| everyone. You also might want to get your kidneys tested.
|
| https://www.renalandurologynews.com/home/news/nephrology/
| chr...
| ddorian43 wrote:
| This always gets flamewar territory. My general answers
| are:
|
| 1. In every health thread we should post a picture of our
| body
|
| 2. Find a doctor that agrees with your opinion. Whatever
| it is you will find one.
|
| 3. I/we usually take harder things than the
| keto/carnivore thing (trust me)
|
| 4. Many things that we've been told our lives has been a
| lie. Maybe the keto/carnivore is also like that.
|
| 5. Please gather all your docs and start a thread on
| twitter with the "top" keto researchers (@nicknorwitz,
| @KetoCarnivore, @ChrisPalmerMD, @realDaveFeldman some
| that I follow)
|
| 6. High carb is killing the developed world. Please
| exercise caution.
| Judgmentality wrote:
| I don't want to continue a flame war, but I want to
| respond to this:
|
| > 2. Find a doctor that agrees with your opinion.
| Whatever it is you will find one.
|
| I don't want a doctor to confirm my bias. I want a doctor
| to give me objective data about my health.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| > I don't want a doctor to confirm my bias.
|
| You randomly got one that confirmed your bias.
|
| See Virta Health for FDA approved example. It's
| progressing slowly.
|
| If you are open minded for real check the book "Brain
| Energy" https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Energy-
| Revolutionary-Understand...
| Judgmentality wrote:
| > You randomly got one that confirmed your bias.
|
| When I listen to someone tell me objective data I'm
| confirming a bias I never had to begin with? The amount
| of projecting you're doing is extraordinary. If a doctor
| told you your kidneys were failing after getting them
| tested (I already linked the research for you to read,
| but clearly you're afraid of information that doesn't
| confirm your bias), would you then go find a doctor that
| tells you your kidneys are fine? Your fear of information
| is literally going to kill you. This is the mentality
| that leads to anti-vaxxing.
|
| > If you are open minded for real check
|
| This is ironic since you're not even open-minded to
| listening to a doctor, or medical research, or anything
| that disagrees with what you already think you know.
|
| You are a perfect example of the Dunning Kruger effect.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| > I never even said the word cancer
|
| You forgot your friend's dad.
|
| The ONLY way to know something is to become an expert
| yourself. If you do keto for several years, you will see
| that I'm correct.
|
| But you can't compare several years of experience with
| just reading a paper.
|
| I'm talking what I do for several years and progress
| while you link to a paper that is clearly wrong to anyone
| knowing keto basics.
|
| You are a midwit! Also see the "Ackchyually meme". It
| happens often with people with no real world/life
| experience beside reading title of papers thinking
| they're smart.
| Judgmentality wrote:
| My friend's dad has stage 3 renal failure, not cancer. I
| genuinely have no idea what you're talking about and
| you're just rambling now. Enjoy your self-contained
| bubble of delusion where nobody can harm you (except
| yourself, but you'd need to be self-aware to realize
| that).
|
| Cheers.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Who cares about your friend's dead dad, I was at the gym
| and misread/misremembered.
|
| The paper is still wrong.
|
| Even keto/carnivore can help with
| delusions/schizophrenia/bipolar: Dr. Chris Palmer - 'The
| Ketogenic Diet in Neurology and Psychiatry'
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUtwr_6sFw4. He is a
| doctor, try watching the video.
|
| But, being a midwit is genetic. No cure for that. I'm
| sorry.
| Judgmentality wrote:
| > Who cares about your friend's dead dad, I was at the
| gym and misread/misremembered.
|
| Your ability to incorrectly read what I wrote so many
| times is impressive. My friend's dad isn't dead.
|
| You have demonstrated more than once a complete inability
| to fact check the most basic things, and yet you
| pontificate as if you are an expert. Have you ever
| considered you may have accidentally gotten many of your
| other assumptions wrong? If your worldview is anything
| like this conversation, it's built on incorrect
| assumptions and you being confident about something
| objectively false. You are demonstrating that you have
| the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader and expect me
| to take you seriously.
|
| You've already discredited yourself multiple times. I
| don't respect you enough to read your sources, the same
| way you can't even correctly read the sentences I write.
| If you are so sure you are right, why do you care what I
| think? I never claimed to be struggling with my health,
| and yet you keep offering advice on how to improve it.
| You are having an argument with yourself and you don't
| even recognize it. It's obvious you don't listen, but you
| need therapy.
|
| I hope you get the help that you need, but something
| tells me you'd refuse it even if it were available.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| I know he's not dead, dummy.
|
| But the paper is still wrong, I really read it.
|
| Im demonstrating that I have real life stuff to do, and
| have experience in what I say, while you're just a midwit
| with no experience.
|
| > I hope you get the help that you need, but something
| tells me you'd refuse it even if it were available.
|
| After you become a therapist with a PHD and 3+ years of
| experience, you will know the answer. Until then, it's
| just a feeling, you are just wrong. The same with the
| keto/carnivore. And with everything in life that you dont
| have multi year experience.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| I wish I was as innocent as you but not everyone is so
| lucky.
|
| In my case, I've improved my health care issues given to
| me by my parents with keto/carnivore.
|
| Hope you do the same.
|
| Note: you never mentioned anything about yourself, not
| what you eat or train or anything. Just the cancer and
| the paper.
|
| The paper you linked had nearly everything wrong starting
| from the high protein, the acidosis thing, the meat/eggs
| being associated with diabetes, the doctor recommending
| vegan.
| [deleted]
| sph wrote:
| My grandma lived 95 while smoking a pack a day since her
| 20s.
|
| N=1 anecdotes are not worth the energy discussing them.
|
| Her son (my father), lived 55 while smoking a pack a day
| since his 20s.
|
| --
|
| Also, what is keto diet? I've seen keto diets made of
| mostly meat and organic vegetables, and keto diets made
| of fat bombs and almond flour pizzas.
|
| Keto and low carb these days have stopped meaning
| anything, often doesn't even mean "healthier".
| Judgmentality wrote:
| If someone suggests something is a cure all for everyone,
| and a doctor says that cure all is killing someone, and
| there's medical research backing up the doctor - I'm
| going to trust the doctor.
|
| My N=1 anecdote is a counterexample that has medical
| research to back it up. Or are you discrediting the
| person's anecdote about a carnivorous diet being healthy?
| [deleted]
| blfr wrote:
| The hydration meme (drinking a gallon+ of fluids a day)
| is one the few fads that are actually sound.
|
| Anyway, the long term effects are not that worrisome
| since virtually no one will stick to a diet this strict.
| I wouldn't also recommend strict keto or carnivore
| because without carbs most people will lack the oomph for
| a good workout.
| dghughes wrote:
| High protein diets can trash a person's kidneys.
|
| I've read that each kidney has a seven fold overcapacity
| for what people need. So if the kidneys are damaged
| something majorly bad had to have happened.
|
| Kidneys are also involved in blood production along with
| bones.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Carnivore or keto is high fat diet. It's not high protein
| https://www.thecarnivoredietcoach.com/carnivore-
| foods.html
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Doing a low carb (not sure if I am in keto as I am not
| measuring) to see if it reduces CFS symptoms. So far it
| seems to be helping.
|
| Not sure why: if it is the low carb aspect or just eating
| less.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Good luck! Don't forget to eat fat! Make sure to join a
| forum and ask questions so you're not doing things wrong.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Also check out this book Brain Energy: A Revolutionary
| Breakthrough in Understanding Mental Health
| https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Energy-Revolutionary-
| Understand...
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Thanks for the recommendation. Does the book also
| recommended low carb/keto?
| ddorian43 wrote:
| I think CFS is also connected to the mind (don't remember
| correctly). You can see a presentation by the same guy:
| Dr. Chris Palmer - 'The Ketogenic Diet in Neurology and
| Psychiatry' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUtwr_6sFw4
| [deleted]
| mikevm wrote:
| By carnivore do you mean eating only meat? No veggies at all?
| If so that is an insane diet. Where are you going to get all
| your micronutrients from?
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Only read meat, high fat, mostly only ruminant meat
| (lamb,goat,beef).
|
| > Where are you going to get all your micronutrients from?
|
| In the meat. You have to look at the bioavailability of
| stuff from plants and how much they have per-gram and per-
| calorie.
|
| There are books/people/forums to follow if you want to try.
| Don't try it blindly/stupidly but go to a forum and ask
| basic questions.
| mikevm wrote:
| > In the meat.
|
| _facepalm_ Good luck hitting the RDAs for the following
| using only the meats you described:
|
| * Vitamin C * Vitamin E * Vitamin K * Calcium * Magnesium
|
| I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise you're
| also going to come up short in a bunch of other micros.
| If you're also strength training you also need to go
| above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins,
| Calcium, ...) making it even harder.
|
| This diet is pure pseudoscience.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise
| you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other
| micros.
|
| I eat full lamb but will consider going mostly muscle
| meat, will have to find some good deal first.
|
| > This diet is pure pseudoscience.
|
| We've been told that all our lives. It feels that way.
| I'm sorry. I don't listen to general advice though. Till
| now it's been going ok.
|
| Join https://old.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/ and give it a
| try! Who knows, maybe I'm right ;)
| ravenstine wrote:
| RDAs are opinions, not science. They are _guesses_ based
| on averages, which in many cases do not apply at all to
| any given individual.
|
| The only way that RDAs are even remotely useful is if one
| is eating a standard diet where many vitamins and
| minerals are of lesser bioavailability as they are in the
| form of meat. In terms of vitamin C, there's a reason why
| meat eaters don't get scurvy, which is that meat contains
| other compounds that make the need for exogenous vitamin
| C much less necessary.
|
| That is precisely why RDAs are mostly nonsense. Absolute
| values for micronutrients mean very little when you don't
| account for the food substrate, cofactors, an
| individual's overall health, what a person weighs, what
| their body composition is, etc.
|
| _Somehow_ , humans (the Homo genus, to be exact), got
| away without RDAs for millions of years. And they ate
| lots of meat.
|
| > I hope beef liver is in your daily diet, otherwise
| you're also going to come up short in a bunch of other
| micros.
|
| No, humans do not have to eat organ meat. There is no
| evidence for this. Skeletal muscle and fatty tissues,
| particularly that from large ruminant animals, provide
| everything that a human body needs to function optimally.
|
| > If you're also strength training you also need to go
| above the RDA for certain micros (e.g, Vit C, B vitamins,
| Calcium, ...) making it even harder.
|
| The human body does not contain an RDA meter. As I
| already discussed, RDA is an _opinion_ that only makes
| sense when a certain set of vitamins and minerals are
| viewed in isolation. The RDA and RDI hypotheses fall
| apart when all the other variables of human diet and
| health come into play.
|
| > This diet is pure pseudoscience.
|
| Yeah... I guess _stable isotope data_ is pseudoscience as
| well, but RDA is rock solid. Right.
|
| https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.13011
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00
| 472...
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-41033-3#ref-
| CR9
| kinghtown wrote:
| Counter point: I have 17 inch biceps with a 145 kg bench press.
| About 16% fat BUT currently not trying to lose weight. Vegan,
| too. I just want to stress that being carnivore is unnecessary
| to strength and fitness (let alone just living well.)
| belter wrote:
| Being carnivore is unnecessary to strength and fitness, but
| many Vegans show important deficiencies on:
|
| - Vitamin B12
|
| - Vitamin D
|
| - Zinc
|
| Most vegan food products available in supermarkets, if you
| notice the labels, include B12 and Vitamin D supplements at a
| minimum.
|
| "Top5 Nutrient Deficiencies On A Plant Based Diet":
| https://www.naturespath.com/en-us/blog/the-
| top-5-deficiencie...
| kinghtown wrote:
| nxmnxm99 wrote:
| His point is one diet is obviously superior to the other
| if one requires supplementing to meet basic nutritional
| requirements
|
| There are lots of shitty diets that can work if you
| supplement
| kinghtown wrote:
| Meat eaters are lacking in nutrients as well. B12 and
| Omega 3, just like many vegans apparently, as well as
| fibre. Veganism is a great way of life. I'm currently
| stronger than 99% of the general public. You guys can
| only say that it's a personal choice at this point.
|
| My point, the parent, is that I hope to spare the pain
| and agony of some hundreds of animals who could
| needlessly die due to a few dozen otters on HN thinking a
| carnivore diet is the trick to finally turn them into
| savages. It won't. You would all have the same gains as a
| vegan. Try it out, call it plant-based if you need to.
| belter wrote:
| Many persons are Vegan for several periods of weeks to
| months at a time, and revert to a carnivore diet by
| medical necessity. My comment was not against the diet
| itself, just to point the technical execution behind it.
|
| The problem with some approaches to a Vegan diet, is that
| they bring with them baggage. An immediate moral and
| ethical judgement, that some would accuse of being a
| slippery slope of ambiguity.
|
| Most ambiguity, comes from the way the causing suffering
| argument is phrased. Declaring it form a high horse of
| supposedly moral superiority, while for example ignoring
| the destruction of wild life that intensive farming
| brings.
|
| Humans with a carnivore diet are not advocating for
| animal suffering. Vegans advocating a planetary scale
| plant based diet, if they approach from a moral
| superiority point, should clarify what level of ALL
| animal suffering are they willing to tolerate to support
| their diet.
|
| Some Vegans would argue the suffering to wild life, is an
| indirect cause of pursuing healthier options, and that
| not all suffering is the same. The same argument could be
| used by meat eaters, that none advocates for the abuses
| of the meat industry.
|
| Unless of course one would use the more radical argument
| that animals do not exist to feed humans. But the same
| could be said of plants. They were here before humans.
| kinghtown wrote:
| kybernetyk wrote:
| Is Tren vegan? ;)
| [deleted]
| blfr wrote:
| Eating a high-protein diet is the easiest way to stay
| satiated without overeating. Carnivore is actually more
| difficult than necessary but fits the bill.
|
| However, nature dominates nurture almost every time. So a
| good hormonal profile is of course more important than diet.
| I know guys who eat trash but maintain sub-10% bf physique
| and deadlift 300 kilos. They do it with some genetic luck and
| steroids.
| ravenstine wrote:
| > Carnivore is actually more difficult than necessary but
| fits the bill.
|
| Um, define difficult?
| phantompeace wrote:
| The guys you're referring to - how much of their "genetic
| luck" is down to the fact that they're training constantly,
| thereby increasing their calorie requirements? You can't
| deadlift 300kg without some serious work and dedication,
| steroids or no steroids, so it makes sense those types of
| people would be able to scoff down anything for fuel. Being
| able to deadlift 300kg means they're also doing some other
| heavy compounds lifts too which further increases their
| metabolism and thus, increases the amount of calories they
| need.
| nradov wrote:
| Power lifters don't train constantly. It's nothing like
| endurance or skill sports where training itself is almost
| a full-time job. The actual number of hours spent
| actively lifting is typically pretty low. They spend more
| time on active recovery and nutrition (and sometimes
| PEDS).
| kinghtown wrote:
| I'm already on a high protein diet. I just happen to be
| vegan as well. My breakfast smoothie alone was about 50
| grams of protein. I had a generous peanut butter sandwich
| (about 20 grams protein with my fancy bread) about an hour
| later.
|
| The thing is, I'm not comparing myself to Brian Shaw or
| Larry Wheels or anyone else eating 5,000-10,000 calories a
| day with steroids.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| Not sure if it's a counter point; people do 'stuff' and
| attribute 'other stuff that happens' from the 'stuff' they
| do. I am a vegetarian eating a balanced diet and have no
| issues bulking up. Just do whatever works and don't bother
| too many other people with it; keto/meatonly/fatonly (yes, I
| understand these are different things!) people are usually so
| 'I have discovered god!' and keep telling people about it who
| are absolutely not going to do it. I just eat what I like and
| am happy; no need to tell it to everyone, all the time.
|
| I even recognise one of the poster's nicknames here for
| trying to push some insane (to me; I would say it will be a
| fluke of nature if this person gets beyond 65 y/o) meat/fat
| only diets on HN.
| kinghtown wrote:
| For me, the carnivore diet is obnoxious at best. It's
| ethically in the red by a lot let alone being unnecessary
| to be a manly man or whatever the hell it is these guys
| think they're achieving on a red meat only diet. WHO
| advises less meat if anything. You guys should all be in
| the range between mediterranean lifestyle to vegan. Eating
| only meat is nasty.
| eixiepia wrote:
| Counter point: For me, vegan diet is not only obnoxious,
| but also dangerous. Years as a vegan wrecked my health
| and permanently my teeth. Carnivore was the way out of
| this downward spiral for me.
| kinghtown wrote:
| Most likely you have no idea what you're doing swinging
| from one fad diet to another.
| eixiepia wrote:
| If it makes you feel better you're welcome to believe
| that, but I'm sorry to inform you that this is not the
| case. However, my good health after many years on the
| carnivore diet is enough for me, I don't have the need to
| convince anyone.
| [deleted]
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| > I just eat what I like and am happy
|
| An unacceptably selfish attitude in 2022 where industrial-
| scale mass production of meat foods are literally making
| our planet unlivable at alarming rates.
|
| As a conscious human being within civilized society you
| have a responsibility to do the right thing, even if it
| means taking on a little discomfort in the short term.
|
| Your happiness has less priority than our survival as a
| species.
| kybernetyk wrote:
| >Your happiness has less priority than our survival as a
| species.
|
| Said the next Hitler/Mao/Stalin...
| hypertele-Xii wrote:
| If veganism, ecology, and environmentalism are to be
| associated with genocidal megalomania, god help us
| survive ourselves.
| Loic wrote:
| Just eat balanced (omnivore, vegan, vegetarian, all can be
| balanced and all can be full of junk food) and if you have a
| smart watch, look at the calories you burnt in the day. Try not
| to eat more than what you burn.
|
| Be sure to have at least something like 30 minutes 2 days out
| of 3 where you do sport (workout, whatever you like) and really
| sweat. Your smart watch can help you doing it with
| gamification/challenges/you name it.
|
| It is simple, very simple, the hard part is to _just do it and
| keep doing it_.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| The article mentions that a substance (lactose-phenylalanine)
| appears after exercise in several animal studies. There's a
| suggestion of a strong connection of this to reduced appetite.
| But this isn't explained and more importantly there's no
| hypothesised mechanism. Why would it be a metabolic advantage to
| reduce hunger after exertion? Maybe it creates a buffer-period.
| Otherwise, common sense/intuition would say we feel hungrier
| after exercise. What gives?
| hinkley wrote:
| Genetic selection has a lot of trouble differentiating between
| correlation and causation. That is one of the ways in which
| intellect has allowed us to evolve so fast that our genes are
| sometimes becoming a problem.
|
| Hibernation and torpor cycles are alternating between metabolic
| modes that are tied to the seasons, seasons are tied to
| weather, and exercise levels are tied to the weather directly,
| and to seasons indirectly - I'm gathering roots today because
| the sun is out, but I'm not walking to the next village because
| we usually have snow storms this time of year, so I could get
| halfway there and then die in a blizzard.
| otikik wrote:
| "After" is what happens now, when we are in control of our time
| "I will hit the gym for one hour". In our past, physical
| activity was a survival-related task with no fixed end time
| (chasing a prey, fleeing from danger). I think for our
| ancestors it would happen _during_ exertion. It would not be
| advantageous to feel increasingly hungry while exercising, the
| same way that it makes sense for adrenaline to block pain
| during a fight. Less distraction, more survival
| hinkley wrote:
| I think it helps if you think of exercise as what it is:
| lying.
|
| A longshoreman is strong because he spends all day shifting
| cargo around. Steve is big and buff because he tricks his
| body into thinking shifting cargo around all day is a likely
| scenario.
|
| Muscle is expensive. The body is very stingy with keeping
| muscle you don't need on a regular basis. A gym visit is
| trying to simulate the behavior of all-day exertion without
| having to abandon all of the other activities you want to
| fill your day with.
| fasteo wrote:
| >>> Otherwise, common sense/intuition would say we feel
| hungrier after exercise. What gives?
|
| I would hypothesize that recovery and digestion are two
| metabolically intensive activities that the body is unable to
| do them simultaneously, so it would make sense to suppress
| hunger while the body recovers itself from exercise.
|
| Now, the supplement industry has made us believe that if you
| don't consume food within the magical anabolic window, you
| recovery will be impaired. Nonsense if you ask me.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Yeah that's exactly right. Even when I over-strain myself my
| body is still kind of in a shock for 40-50 minutes (during
| which I also drink a lot of water) and then suddenly boom, I
| can eat an elephant.
|
| Same with digestion. I found out the hard way that taking a
| walk after the restaurant is an awful idea. The body really
| needs a relaxed pose and to be not doing anything else for at
| least an hour after a meal (with slowed down metabolisms this
| can go up to 3h, sadly) so you can properly get your
| nutrients. Only then you should be doing another activity.
| aqme28 wrote:
| My guess is that exercise implies that you're doing something
| important (fighting, fleeing, etc), and it is not the time to
| be distracted by hunger.
| beardedman wrote:
| Ties up pretty well with my own experience. Eating after exercise
| always feels like a chore.
| linspace wrote:
| My case is more biomechanical. Running will decrease hunger much
| more than cycling or the gym as it gives the stomach much less
| rest.
| ge96 wrote:
| Personal anecdote regarding weight loss/fitness
|
| In 2 months I dropped 30 lbs, how was by fasting. I would only
| eat 1 big meal a day, as in drink coffee in the morning, not have
| a snack (fiber bar) until after 5PM (assuming 9-5 schedule) and
| then eat around 9PM/few hours before sleep. (means 1200-1500
| calories per day vs. 2400+). The figure to keep in mind is a lb
| of fat is 3500c. Counting calories matters.
|
| The hard thing is sticking to it (obviously) as I rebounded and I
| gained that weight back already. I sit at a desk/don't really go
| outside much. You will feel a hunger pang and you will want to
| eat, but it will pass.
|
| I used to work next to a gym so it was easy to work out, I would
| just go to the gym after work, at times I would even work out as
| long as 4 hrs in a row. I was super cut back then, lifting. But
| the gym is now 5+ miles away from me one way and I used to go
| there 4-5 days a week. I could drive that but nah... 20 minutes
| of driving and 1-2 hrs at the gym that's a lot of lost time. Plus
| I used to go late at night/early morning so I had the entire gym
| to myself, I didn't have to wait for the squat area or bench,
| etc...
|
| I'm not doing that anymore, and I'm not really interested in
| getting body-building sculpted, just toned/visible muscle/low
| body fat. So I'm doing that at home, got some bands/one of those
| multi-use pull up bars... but diet is the main thing... if you
| have low body fat you will look better than with a lot... as in
| good chin definition, no gut... I have this personal denial going
| on where I wear baggy clothes/saying "I'm not THAT overweight"
| but I am by about 40lbs. Film yourself externally to see.
|
| I guess this really only matters if you care about external
| appearance/say trying to attract someone else, gotta meet them/be
| on their level.
|
| I am in my later 20's, 6ft weight should be around 210 but I'm at
| low 260s as of this moment. Was high 230, low 240s in Feb. My
| problem is I binge eat when I'm bored/watch TV.
|
| Last thing I'll mention, I also include some back
| stretching/exercise, light to keep the back strong since I sit on
| a stool all day (office chair but back broke off).
| chaorace wrote:
| I concur. People are generally very hesitant to recommend
| fasting, because it _is_ dangerous, but I 'd argue that it's
| dangerous in the same sense as a very intense workout: not
| inherently damaging, but *certainly* capable of complicating
| pre-existing conditions. (NOT A DOCTOR, DO NOT SUE)
|
| Indeed, there is some science which suggests that fasting plays
| an important role in long-term homeostasis -- particularly when
| it comes to managing cellular senescence and insulin
| resistance[1]. I'm only a layperson, but I feel like there's a
| pretty clear parallel that can be drawn between exercise and
| fasting here; Human body metabolism developed in an environment
| where both of these processes would reliably play out over
| time, so it seems to follow that each would contribute
| important functions to the overall metabolic process.
|
| [1]: https://sci-hub.se/10.1056/NEJMra1905136
| ge96 wrote:
| I will add, once I reach my target weight, then I would just
| try to stay in the daily caloric allowance eg. 2400 or so
| (combined with some form of exercise).
|
| Fasting is just a rapid way to lose weight and in my case
| above it's not crazy, you're still eating daily, not starving
| yourself for days on end. And for me it helps me keep my
| energy levels up/focus by delaying eating.
|
| Regarding my binge eating (fast food) habit that's my
| "exciting thing" on the weekend with some shows, I can still
| do that however not "fast food". For example I usually would
| buy/eat:
|
| - a large quarter pounder deluxe meal (burger and fries)
|
| - a fish fillet sandwich
|
| - a mcchicken, a mcdouble
|
| - large shake/or caramel frappe
|
| I think when I binge like that it's 3000-5000 calories in one
| shot. That's why my weight gain is so rapid/bad. I would do
| that a few times in a week of different chains.
|
| So in order to still have "fun" on the weekends, I will get
| some prepared/frozen meal like those skillet pasta... I'm not
| saying it's much better... but that's my junk food
| avoidance/fun food. Otherwise I usually eat the same thing
| everyday: fiber bar snack, then rice, chicken, frozen veggies
| meal (only because I don't like cooking).
| decebalus1 wrote:
| Sample size of one, but I always lift weights fasted (12-16 hours
| fast) and I'm ready to eat a horse about an hour or two after my
| workout. I once ate a whole rotisserie chicken. I also crave
| burgers right after strenuous hikes or long bike rides. Perhaps
| I'm just badly configured.
| veltas wrote:
| I always get a monster appetite after exercise, could just be
| conditioning. Sample size of one.
| thesz wrote:
| For several years I exercise in fasting state, 14-18 hours of
| fasting.
|
| I can easily not eat for three hours after exercise. Actually,
| I experience no hunger at all.
|
| Could just be conditioning. Sample size of one.
| foolfoolz wrote:
| i think 90% of huger is conditioning. you can train yourself
| to eat less. you can train yourself to stop being hungry. and
| it doesn't take long, maybe a month or so
| ID1452319 wrote:
| What sort of exercise were you doing fasted? Did you find it
| impacted your performance?
| thesz wrote:
| Weight resistance training, mostly. Also occasional Tabata
| squats for some endurance.
|
| I found that I recover from quite intensive sets faster
| when training fasted. The decline in performance I
| experience can be explained by my age and, frankly, that I
| do not exercise regularly enough.
| FeaturelessBug wrote:
| For me the type of exercise determines if I'm hungry or not.
| Heavy core work pretty much eliminates my appetite for hours
| asdff wrote:
| Especially cardio I will actually get faint if I don't keep up
| with food. On long bike rides I will eat two al pastor tacos
| every 20 miles from a stand or truck. A lot of those
| 10/25/50/100 mile charity bike rides have regular stops with
| peanut butter packets or beer too so riders can get liquid
| calories and carbs (and a buzz of course).
| tpm wrote:
| After 50km of cycling, I am usually not hungry at all, or maybe
| a little, depends what/when I ate before. After 100km I could
| eat an elephant.
| idoubtit wrote:
| After a few hours of intense activity, I'm usually very hungry.
|
| But when I walk in the mountains for full days (8-12 hours per
| day), I don't have much of an appetite, especially after two
| days. I almost have to force myself to eat a real lunch and
| dinner, though I tend to frequently eat small quantities of
| dried fruits.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| I find I'm surprisingly unhungry after a long slow run of 1.5
| to 2.5 hours which (according to my run watch) has consumed
| 1500+ calories. I too usually have to force myself to eat
| after, but it helps me to eat something fairly healthy rather
| than eat quickly
| chobytes wrote:
| Same. I figure youve only got some much glycogen in your body,
| and so youve got to replenish it during/after exercise.
|
| Do you exercise regularly? If so how does your appetite feel
| between sessions (while youre recovered)?
| deebosong wrote:
| When I'd do distance running training, anywhere from 30-50
| miles a week, my appetite didn't necessarily increase/
| decrease.
|
| When I switched over to cycling, anywhere from 150-250 miles a
| week, my appetite went through the roof, and I just inhale food
| constantly.
|
| As an aside, I found my tastebuds get extremely, extremely
| sensitive right after a spirited bike ride. Sometimes things I
| thought that tasted pretty good suddenly had certain flavor
| profiles ultra amplified and overpowering. Other times, food &
| drink that tasted weird would become absolutely delicious. But
| even an hour later, after satiating the post-bike-ride
| appetite, that very same food or drink could taste
| significantly different. Like Sierra Nevada's Hazy Little Thing
| IPA, man, it can taste like 2 vastly different beers. Doesn't
| make me wanna become a foodie per se but it does make me think
| that my body craves and rewards me for eating after a spirited
| ride.
| robert_tweed wrote:
| More anecdata, but I find it depends on the type of exercise.
| An hour of cardio equals several hours of appetite suppression.
| An hour of heavy weight training equals several hours of
| unstoppable hunger. What I eat in that state (high carb, low
| carb, whey protein, etc) doesn't seem to affect satiety much.
|
| I believe this could be the main reason why its almost
| impossible to eat at a caloric defecit (with surplus protein)
| and train anabolically at the same time. Some people are able
| to do that, it's just very rare.
| phantompeace wrote:
| I experience the same effect. Cardio doesn't make me hungry
| afterwards, in fact I tend to be less hungrier than I was
| before I started the workout.
|
| Heavy weights induces a deep visceral hunger that I can only
| describe as the hunger that you feel when your body is
| depleted and is starting to burn fat stores. It's different
| to the usual hunger pangs. Anyone else felt it? It makes me
| double over sometimes and I completely lose track of what I
| was doing whenever I get those pangs. I almost always follow
| up with a heavy meal.
| robert_tweed wrote:
| Yes, same here. It's not just "I'm hungry". It's more "I
| cannot think about anything other than food".
|
| I'm not sure it has anything to do with burning fat stores
| though, because I don't get the same feeling after say, a
| 3-day water fast. At that point I'm definitely hungry, but
| don't have the same insatiable food craving.
|
| In fact, when I was experimenting with extended fasting,
| the only reason I stopped at 3 days is because I was
| lifting lighter weights every day and hit a point where my
| strength was physically depleted. I could only do about 3
| reps instead of finding 15+ easy. Hunger wasn't really a
| problem after the first day of getting used to it.
| pier25 wrote:
| So now they only need to synthesize it and put it in a pill!
| FollowingTheDao wrote:
| No need, there is already a pill that helps make lac-phe, it is
| called manganese, See my other comment.
| davidkuennen wrote:
| Also anecdata. Whenever I'm exercising I know that I won't be
| hungry afterwards even if I was before. I always thought it was
| strange.
| ianbutler wrote:
| With cardio I'm more hungry later in the day but weight lifting,
| not only do I get a better workout I have less cravings for junk
| and my hunger is way less.
| formerkrogemp wrote:
| Mass produce this. Feed to everyone. Global hunger solved?
| zvmaz wrote:
| That's completely counter-intuitive to me. My weight and appetite
| significantly drop when I stop weightlifting.
| phantompeace wrote:
| Could that be explained by a body wide change in metabolism
| when not lifting heavy weights?
| ravenstine wrote:
| Although this is my _guess_ based on experience, I think said
| anti-hunger effect can be had without intense exercise. I 've
| noticed consistently that _walking_ has an anti-hunger effect.
| Walking does take more time than running, but it doesn 't really
| register as stress to the body in the same way that running and
| other forms of cardio do, meaning a lower cortisol response.
| Maybe it's not as strong an effect as with something like
| running, but I think it's worth observing and considering. In
| weighing the pros and cons, I think that walking is better in
| terms of longevity. Cortisol and stress on joints are things you
| don't really want.
| mylons wrote:
| walking is exercise. it's considered a fine thing to do for
| "conditioning" in a weight lifting program
| uwuemu wrote:
| sumy23 wrote:
| I think research has shown the opposite. Low-intensity cardio
| makes people more hungry, in general. Personally, after a long
| hike, I have a voracious appetite.
| hinkley wrote:
| Weight lifting makes me ravenous. Long endurance exercise
| makes me crave salty things. Like bacon. Or bacon on a
| cheeseburger.
|
| Here we are again, lecturing people on weight loss as if
| every human on the planet has exactly the same metabolism,
| instead of having different metabolic genes, different lines
| of mitrochondrial DNA, and our metabolism being moderated and
| modulated by single celled organisms that _outnumber our own
| cells_.
|
| We don't have it figured out, and we're not going to figure
| it out by looking at hundreds of people and copycatting them.
| This is going to take double genetic testing for participant
| selection. One for the participant, one for a stool sample.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Like I said, it's just a guess from my experience. It's a
| complicated subject because people can get "hungry" for
| different reasons. For me it could very well be that simply
| getting up to walk a 4-mile circuit around the neighborhood
| gives me enough of a goal and enjoyment that I feel less of a
| need to reach for food as entertainment, including the time
| following the walk.
|
| What gives me an appetite is _weight lifting_. I honestly don
| 't get how people can't be hungry after lifting heavy. Could
| be psychological for me because I am also intent on building
| muscle, but still. My hunger after lifting is more visceral
| than my usual "gotta eat" feeling.
| rmbyrro wrote:
| > It's a complicated subject because people can get
| "hungry" for different reasons.
|
| When it comes to human health, every subject is like that.
|
| This is why we rely on randomized control groups, peer-
| review, and other mechanisms to reduce the chances of
| making wrong assumptions.
| 10x-dev wrote:
| Anecdata: when I was intermittently fasting, I found that
| exercising at lunch curbed my appetite and I could easily last
| till dinner with no food or with a small yogurt snack (<50cal).
| On days when I didn't exercise, I felt hungrier and had to engage
| my will power much more during the day.
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