[HN Gopher] Sleeping longer than 6.5 hours/day can help you lose...
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Sleeping longer than 6.5 hours/day can help you lose weight: study
Author : sgfgross
Score : 224 points
Date : 2022-06-23 14:17 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (oa.mg)
(TXT) w3m dump (oa.mg)
| jhoelzel wrote:
| the term "sleep for dinner" applies for this too i think. If you
| consume less because you sleep an hour more, it might simply be
| the that the 200 calories of the nonsleepers are eating out of
| boredom.
| jcadam wrote:
| Probably would. I get 6 hours of sleep on a good day. I also work
| about 12 hrs a day. I do make sure to squeeze in a half hour of
| running most days.
| H8crilA wrote:
| I hope you're getting a good seven figure salary/payoff for all
| that effort!
| jcadam wrote:
| LOL, no. Low six figures. 15+ years as a SWE. We can't all
| pull FAANG salaries.
| wrycoder wrote:
| > _In other words, if the sleep extension was maintained for a
| period of 3 years, it would result in approximately 12kg of
| weight loss._
|
| LOL. That's not how this stuff works, as any dieter can tell you.
| l33t2328 wrote:
| A "dieter" mindset rarely leads to sustained weight loss
| because they rarely last 3 years.
|
| Too many people _go on_ a diet when they should really be
| _changing_ their diet.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Even that doesn't work all that well - the metabolism
| adjusts. (I'm experienced with long-term low-glycemic diets.
| It's better to go off the diet once in a while to "fool" the
| body.)
| friedman23 wrote:
| As someone that has been having success with long term weight
| loss. Wow this topic brings out the absolute worst people with
| the strongest opinions. There is no hope for ending the obesity
| pandemic.
| swatcoder wrote:
| Remember that studies almost never make the strong claims that
| headlines do.
|
| What the study actually demonstrates is more narrow, as befits
| science:
|
| "Overweight young adults who usually sleep less then 6.5 hours a
| day and are coached in sleep hygiene tend to sleep about an hour
| longer, consume fewer calories proportional to how much more they
| sleep, and have no significant change in today daily energy
| expenditure"
|
| https://oa.mg/work/10.1001/jamainternmed.2021.8098
| civilized wrote:
| I enjoy a round of "the media distorted science again" as much
| as anyone, but this seems misleading. The abstract literally
| makes a weight loss finding:
|
| > No significant treatment effect in total energy expenditure
| was found, resulting in weight reduction in the sleep extension
| group vs the control group.
|
| I don't see any way in which the headline made stronger claims
| than the science. Simplification, or omitting details, is not
| the same as hyperbole or misrepresentation.
| bfgoodrich wrote:
| [deleted]
| swatcoder wrote:
| The headline suggests that the findings are generally
| applicable _and_ that the weight loss comes simply from
| sleeping more than 6.5 hours per night. The study -- which is
| a great study -- demonstrates neither of those things.
|
| The study has no demonstrated applicability to:
|
| * older adults
|
| * teenagers or children
|
| * BMI obese individuals
|
| * BMI normal/underweight individuals
|
| * people who already sleep more than 6.5 hours per night
|
| * people who sleep longer without being counseled in sleep
| hygiene as performed by the clinicians -- which presumably
| involves a comprehensive set of sleep guidelines and possibly
| even personalized assignment of guidelines and other forms of
| coaching
|
| Do you think most people reading the headline or even the
| article would recognize that? Do you think most commenters
| did?
| civilized wrote:
| The title says "can" help, implying a contingent claim with
| limitations.
|
| As for the rest - I think everything you note here falls in
| the class of omitting details, which is not in itself
| misleading. Classifying any headline that omits any details
| as misleading sets an impossible standard. It basically
| makes it impossible to provide a responsible headline of
| any kind.
|
| Even the title of the original scientific article itself
| fails to disclose several of the limitations you list here.
| Is a popular media article required to have a title that
| discloses limitations more comprehensively than the
| scientific article it reports on?
| swatcoder wrote:
| I don't see myself as "taking issue" with anything and am
| certainly not responsible for any sort of standards in
| headline writing. I agree with you that the headlines
| can't include every detail, which is specifically why
| it's important to practice deeper digging when a headline
| personally intrigues you.
|
| As far as I can tell, I'm just sharing the details that
| the headline left out with a community who has the
| scientific literacy to make sense of them.
|
| A lot of us have a hair trigger around "Can't Trust That
| Damn Media!" claims (myself included), so I understand
| why you're trying to stand up for the article here. But
| if you look back over what I wrote, you'll see that I
| wasn't criticizing it. Digging deeper is what we want to
| do so that we _can_ trust the imperfect media that we
| know we receive.
| civilized wrote:
| I still don't agree that the headline made a stronger
| claim than the article, but I get where you're coming
| from, and sharing the details and the link to the
| original study is of course great and what HN is for, so
| let's call it good :)
| a123b456c wrote:
| These is one of the most civil exchanges I've ever read
| on the internet.
| patorjk wrote:
| > Researchers from the University of Chicago and the University
| of Wisconsin-Madison found that study participants consumed on
| average 270 calories less per day over two weeks if they slept at
| least one hour more than normal.
|
| When I saw the title I suspected it was related to eating more if
| you slept less. I find myself doing this when I cheat myself out
| of a goodnight's sleep.
| tekla wrote:
| Yeah. "You eat less when you literally don't have time to be
| eating since you are sleeping"
|
| Amazing
| User23 wrote:
| This is incorrect. Getting less sleep directly up-regulates
| appetite. It's not just more time to eat, it's increased food
| craving.
| mckirk wrote:
| Also makes sense if you think about it; little opportunity
| for sleeping was likely an indicator of external stressors
| during our evolution, so up-regulatibg energy intake during
| those times seems reasonable.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| There is also that whole thing about testosterones levels
| plumetting when under-sleeping.
| tekla wrote:
| Source it. The linked article does not make that claim
| yissp wrote:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535701/
| pcorsaro wrote:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3763921/
|
| Anecdotally, I can also attest that I'm much more likely
| to want junk food if I haven't slept enough. Just do a
| quick google search for "lack of sleep hunger" and you'll
| see tons of articles and papers popup.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| 100%. If I sleep less I feel hungrier and justify eating more
| snacks or shittier food.
| djangovm wrote:
| I sleep between 6 to 7 hrs a day, and find it very hard to go
| back to sleep if woken up in between. Has anyone successfully
| changed their sleeping habits? If yes, how?
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Amitriptyline, melatonin, and blue light blocking glasses. My
| insomnia is genetic, like most people with insomnia.
| jrumbut wrote:
| A surprisingly important item is limiting the amount of liquid
| you consume late at night.
|
| Also eliminating caffeine, nicotine, and alcohol altogether.
| For me there was a big difference between "a little caffeine in
| the morning" and "none at all."
| corrral wrote:
| > very hard to go back to sleep if woken up in between
|
| Melatonin solves this for me. It takes very little (~0.3mg) to
| achieve about the largest clinically-observed effect. Makes it
| easier for me to stay asleep.
|
| For getting to sleep earlier (or even just at a normal, but
| still fairly late time) _reliably_ , I've found two solutions:
|
| 1) Approximately no electricity after sundown (or just a little
| after sundown, in the Winter). No light sources brighter than a
| few candles (enough to read by). Warm light only. Nothing with
| a screen except an e-ink reader. You can still: play music;
| listen to music (if you can be disciplined about it, a couple
| moments of screen to put on another album is probably fine, if
| you don't have a screen-free way to do that, or otherwise, find
| a screen-free way, it can be done cheaply); listen to podcasts
| or radio (ditto); play board and card games (~10-20 candle
| power scattered around a room is a tiny fraction of typical
| nighttime house lighting for a room, but is plenty to do this
| to); read (aloud!); write; talk. But you _must_ turn off the
| electricity-powered 24 /7 carnival. Entirely. Ultra-bright
| lighting (once you're used to low-light the amount of light we
| flood our houses with at night will seem outright insane),
| computers, video games, Netflix. Zero, _zero_ of that.
|
| 2) Weed. [EDIT: I have tried prescription meds for this, too--
| the ones I tried did work, but not as well, left me feeling
| like shit in the morning even if I got a solid 8 hours of
| sleep, and _especially_ left me feeling like shit if I tried to
| use them late in the evening _after_ I realized I was going to
| have trouble falling asleep, rather than just taking them every
| day at a set, earlier time]
| comrh wrote:
| I've had the same effect from marijuana which I attribute to
| weed likely reducing REM sleep
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| > Approximately no electricity after sundown (or just a
| little after sundown, in the Winter).
|
| Jesus God, where do you live? The sun goes down at
| 17:00-17:30 for most of the year here. I'd lose all of my
| free time if I did that.
|
| IME melatonin an hour before bedtime, and setting screen
| color temperature to a really low value works wonders (I've
| been using 2000K at night and 3200K in daytime, sometimes
| even 1800K). I can stare at the screen for 16 hours and then
| go straight to bed, and be off in a few minutes.
| corrral wrote:
| > Jesus God, where do you live? The sun goes down at
| 17:00-17:30 for most of the year here. I'd lose all of my
| free time if I did that.
|
| Medium-ish Northern latitude. Dark around 1700 in the depth
| of Winter, maybe 2130 or 2200 at the height of Summer. Of
| course that includes daylight savings fucking with the
| clocks.
| dkersten wrote:
| Weed helps me get to sleep, but it does not help me get
| _restful_ sleep. Quite the opposite, in fact: if I smoke weed
| before bed, I wake up tired the next day.
| bergenty wrote:
| Weed if you do it regularly makes you feel very foggy headed
| the next morning.
| memcg wrote:
| CPAP and retirement.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Start with lifestyle modifications that help entrain your
| circadian rhythm. People who spend a lot of time indoors,
| especially if in dimly lit offices, have a very different light
| exposure pattern than our ancestors who were outdoors all day.
| You want to push your light exposure to match outdoor light:
| Very high intensity during the day, minimal light exposure in
| the evenings as you relax. Going outside for a 10-15 minute
| walk at lunch is enough to get started. Dimming the lights at
| home in the evening and limiting phone/TV usage is also huge.
| Many find that reading a paper book before bed instead of using
| a phone makes a huge difference.
|
| Play with the other inputs to your circadian rhythms: Meal
| timing and physical activity are huge inputs. Try different
| dinner times earlier and later and you might be surprised to
| discover some large effects.
|
| Adjust what you eat and how frequently. Some people wake up
| early because they've trained their bodies to run on a constant
| stream of carbs or sugar, which obviously can't be sustained
| while you're sleeping for many hours.
|
| Stress reduction and addressing any mental health issues is
| also important. Early morning waking isn't uncommon in
| depressed patients and often resolves with depression
| treatment. Even non-depressed people can benefit from stress
| reduction and relaxation exercises.
| singlespeak wrote:
| A simple but counterintuitive trick which really had a major
| impact in my case was spending less time in bed. This way,
| sleep is maximized as a portion of total time in bed. Your mind
| starts to associate being in bed more strongly with being
| asleep.
|
| For example, if you usually spend 7 hours 30 from the moment
| you go into bed to the moment you get out of it, you could try
| 6 hours and 45 minutes: you would probably be sleep-deprived
| for a few days until your body can't take it anymore and will
| have to use that smaller time-window more efficiently. You
| could then adjust time in bed depending on your results.
|
| Things that had an impact too, but probably more minor:
|
| - Being exposed to direct sunlight ("direct" meaning with no
| window in between, looking at the sky for example, not at the
| sun directly!) as early as possible after waking-up
|
| - Cold shower in the morning (in the evening, better if the
| shower is warm/hot) for its thermogenic effect
|
| + of course, the usual advice: no screen in the evening,
| exercise, dinner early, etc.
| imjared wrote:
| I got a white noise machine recently and it has been an
| absolute game-changer. I live in a pretty dense city and with
| warmer weather, neighbors have been spending more time hanging
| out outside. Their noise into the wee hours was keeping me up
| and preventing me from sleeping or enjoying open windows. I put
| the white noise machine next to my bed, set the thing on full
| blast, and have been sleeping through the night peacefully.
| Probably one of the better $50 spends I've made recently.
|
| I'm not sure if your problem is noise or what but I'd wager
| that a machine like this could be helpful in a plethora of
| situations. It's just pretty calming.
|
| https://yogasleep.com/products/dohmclassic
| TuringNYC wrote:
| >> Has anyone successfully changed their sleeping habits? If
| yes, how?
|
| Heavy weight training is like magic for sleep.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Eye mask. iPhone in sleep mode at 7pm local time. In bed lights
| out no later than 9-10pm. Alarm set for 8am on wfh days, 7am on
| rare travel days when I have to catch a flight.
|
| TLDR actively defend your sleep time. People think it's wasted
| time, but it's the most important work for long term health
| (including long term brain health). Money doesn't buy back
| beating your body into the ground.
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _Eye mask._
|
| I have a lot of trouble with eye masks, ear plugs.
|
| Not necessarily that I can fall asleep with them (I do), but
| they cause me to wake at some point in the night to remove.
| Maybe I have to develop the habit.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| Pricey, but look in to Bose SleepBuds ][. Life changing for
| me. My wife got a pair later and hated them for the first 3
| nights ("they hurt, can't sleep", etc) then it 'clicked'
| and she loves hers too. My brother picked up a pair for
| $100 on craigslist and... he likes his too (but doesn't use
| them every night apparently).
| captainkrtek wrote:
| Same here. I find reading (book, kindle) before bed, drinking
| water to cool down, and not being on my phone for a couple
| hours help quite a bit
| wincy wrote:
| Geez no wonder I have so many problems. I wake up at 8am and
| don't go to sleep until 1-2am every night.
| bergenty wrote:
| So 10-11 hours a day? That's a waste of life. I don't mean
| you can't be productive, I just mean you don't have enough
| time for existence.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Respectfully, living well isn't a waste of life. I live to
| enjoy my life (which I only get one of), and getting enough
| sleep to enjoy my day being well rested is a component of
| that. I'm not always sleeping 10 hours, but I'm never
| getting less than 8 hours. I let me body decide.
| antihero wrote:
| What time do you end up actually going to sleep and waking
| up? 10-8 would be 10 hours sleep.
| mywacaday wrote:
| I had two children, before that I was a terrible sleeper, would
| take me an hour+ to fall asleep. Now I can close my eyes and go
| to sleep with no issue. I think it was a kind of training when
| my kids were young and would wake up multiple times per night,
| when you got back to bed you made sure you went to to sleep
| ASAP as you could be up again shortly. There is an alleged
| military technique that works but I think the practice part is
| a big factor,
| https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2018/09/the-
| secret-..., bad sleep habits are hard to break and good ones
| hard to build.
| InitialBP wrote:
| Definitely recommend the technique noted here as a good
| exercise.
|
| Just _Intentionally_ relaxing the muscles in your face can
| make such a profound difference when trying to get to sleep.
| Especially when you don't even realize those muscles are not
| relaxed by default when laying around in bed.
| wil421 wrote:
| Have kids and you will be woken up at all hours. Then you will
| learn the ability to fall back asleep. You also won't need to
| set the morning alarm any longer.
| jamwt wrote:
| Exercise hard in the morning.
|
| At 8:30p: Last big glass of water. Put phone on charger in non-
| bedroom and don't touch until 7a. Keep the lights low and warm.
| Do low stimulation activities like reading fiction or watching
| semi-boring TV or chatting with your family. Lay down when you
| can't keep your eyes open anymore.
|
| Big change for me. The phone especially is poison for evening
| tranquillity.
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| Helpful to know: Exercising hard in general I think is
| helpful. I am not a morning person but I sleep extremely well
| when I go climbing in the gym for ~2 hrs or so in the
| evenings, after dinner. I pretty much have dinner, go there,
| warm up and climb, go back, shower and sleep, and that
| guarantees a deep sleep for me. I also tend to wake up with a
| clear head and can easily solve stuff I was struggling with
| the day before.
| dkersten wrote:
| I'm also not a morning person, but another reason why
| _hard_ exercise wouldn't work for me, in the morning, is
| that after hard exercise it takes a few hours for my brain
| to function properly again (someone on HN a few months ago
| explained its because the body prioritises getting oxygen
| to the muscles instead of to the brain). At least, I'm
| unable to work for a while after going to the gym. For this
| reason, I bow only go to the gym after work.
|
| Light exercise like going for a walk is ok though.
| Swizec wrote:
| Another benefit of gym/exercise after work: Makes a great
| barrier between work life and home life. Ensures you
| don't bring work home.
|
| And if you work from an office "I have gym at X hour" is
| a super socially acceptable reason to leave on time.
| Nobody questions a gym schedule. Especially if you have a
| class.
| dkersten wrote:
| Those are some great points!
| gmadsen wrote:
| just food for thought, there is quite a bit of research
| showing that hard exercise right before bed is not optimal.
| i think its fair to say any is better than none, and if it
| works for you, it works for you. but the argument is that
| hard exercise raises you metabolism and body temperature,
| which is in direct opposition of what your body needs to do
| to enter deep sleep (lower body temperature)
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Not sure what optimal means in this context. Optimizing
| for how fast you fall asleep?
| gmadsen wrote:
| sure, how fast you enter deep restorative sleep. If you
| measure your HRV, you can definitely see the effect
| alar44 wrote:
| Shut down at 830? Yeah not gonna work for me. Or anyone with
| a job.
| sxv wrote:
| I've worked in tech since 2008 and only for 2 of those
| years have I had to be "on call" past 6pm. ymmv.
| alar44 wrote:
| I don't mean on call. I mean, work til 6, eat dinner,
| check the mail. Do a couple chores and bam, it's 8:00.
| Shutting down at 8:30 will work if you have no friends or
| family I suppose.
| jgwil2 wrote:
| If you work until 6 then you presumably don't start until
| 9:30-10, so you can probably sleep until 7:30 or 8 in the
| morning. So do the same routine and move it back an hour
| or so.
| Taywee wrote:
| I have friends AND family and I manage it. If you wake up
| at 6 AM and go to bed at 10 PM, work 9 AM to 6 PM, and
| shut down all your screens and stuff at 8:30 PM, that
| gives you 8 hours of sleep a night, an hour to work out
| in the morning, 2 hours to eat breakfast and do morning
| stuff before work, 2.5 hours every evening for dinner,
| chores, screen relax time, as well as communication with
| friends and family, and then another 1.5 hours for low-
| stimulation home family time and reading. Sounds
| perfectly fine for a weekday.
|
| Giving a very generous 1 hour for every meal and daily
| 1-hour workout, that still gets you 12.5 hours of non-
| working screen time for your work week, and 7.5 hours of
| lower-stimulation entertainment. And then you have your
| weekends for weekend stuff. What does your schedule look
| like where this is a serious problem?
|
| Being constantly socially online with people you don't
| live with is honestly overrated. Cutting out social media
| is a good first step, and strengthened my most important
| social connections, and completely eliminated ones that I
| hadn't realized were empty and meaningless (do you really
| need to be "friends" with everybody you knew from high
| school?)
| ishjoh wrote:
| > Or anyone with a job
|
| If you are young and grinding to climb up the corporate
| ladder or in an executive position at a default dead
| startup and happy doing it then your comment makes sense to
| me.
|
| If you're not either of those things then your comment is
| extreme and sounds like you'd be happy in a 996 company. If
| software was 996 everywhere I would find a different career
| as I enjoy the rest of life too much.
| l33t2328 wrote:
| I don't think gp means that they are happy to work until
| that late, I think they mean that they regularly use
| their phone for non work communication that late because
| they spend their day at work.
| alar44 wrote:
| So you go to work, come home, and got to bed? I work
| until 6 and then do other things with my life.
| ben_w wrote:
| That leaves 2h30 between you finishing work and putting
| the phone down. It's not even like @jamwt said "go to bed
| at 8:30" or even "no screens at all after 8:30", just put
| the phone away and chill.
| corrral wrote:
| 8:30's about when dinner's been cooked, eaten, the kids
| are in bed, and about 50% of the day's mess has been
| cleaned up (you'll get the 250% of a day's mess that
| remains, after 5 week days, cleaned up on the weekend--at
| least, that's the lie you tell yourself)
|
| I get almost no personal screen time--or other personal
| time, for that matter--before that (aside from time I
| steal to post on HN, like everyone else)
| BaculumMeumEst wrote:
| In addition to this, I stop letting my mind wander to
| challenging/interesting/stimulating topics in the last hour
| of the day. That makes a huge difference, at least for me.
| jayd16 wrote:
| >Exercise hard in the morning.
|
| Reminds me of my career military grandfather. It was
| something along the lines of "march long enough and you'll
| have no problem sleeping."
| gmadsen wrote:
| are you retired? I think many do not physically have the time
| to follow what you are saying
| oh_sigh wrote:
| How many hours are you working that you can't shut off at
| 8:30PM until 7am? That's not normal.
| gmadsen wrote:
| id say its fairly normal to at least answer slack between
| 700am and 9pm, and thats excluding any
| recreational/personal non rec screen time after or before
| those hours
| Larrikin wrote:
| It's not normal to answer slack anytime you're not
| working unless you're on call. Messages after five get
| answered at 9 am.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Let's start by saying "the world isn't IT" and thus the
| idea of answering Slack at all is a trade-specific thing.
| Many people are not as wired to their computers for work.
| That said:
|
| Do you get paid oncall for your availability past 8
| hours?
|
| I'm a consultant (get paid salary but work at a customer
| site) and I turn off Slack notifications and Teams after
| 5pm. My boss and core team know how to reach me if
| something critical comes up. The only time that isn't the
| case is when I'm oncall, which I don't do in my current
| role. I'm also not an account manager, but I also don't
| get paid half a million a year.
|
| And the answer to "screen time afterward" is "don't use a
| phone screen". The point is to avoid the interactivity of
| the phone at night. Grab a book/e-book or put on some
| longer-form video such as a TV show.
| gmadsen wrote:
| screen time after is not just entertainment. do you
| schedule doctor appointments or do taxes on an ebook?
| midasuni wrote:
| 9-5 work time, gives you 3 more hours for scheduling
| doctors etc until 8
| midasuni wrote:
| That's not normal at all.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > id say its fairly normal to at least answer slack
| between 700am and 9pm
|
| Uh...it really isn't.
|
| Unless your job requires being on-call, such as IT,
| incident response, or site reliability, you shouldn't be
| getting Slack messages that late. There's no reason a
| software engineer should be responding to messages 14
| hours/day.
| wazoox wrote:
| So you're working 14h/day? You should reconsider for your
| own health, and if you're not self-employed, your level
| of exploitation.
| corrral wrote:
| Parents basically can't do anything leisure-related with
| electronics or the Internet, at all, if they shut that
| stuff off at 8:30 every day.
|
| Which might be for the best anyway, but it _is_ so
| tempting to still try to keep up with movies, TV, video
| games, side-projects, social media, et c, even though you
| 're effectively working damn near an 80-hour week. Easier
| to fit in exercise after the kids are asleep, too, unless
| you save all that for the weekend or take time out of
| paying work to do it instead. Or get up _stupid_ early.
| Like, much earlier than 7.
| panax wrote:
| Also try a multi day hike through the wilderness to reset
| your circadian rhythm. This combines heavy levels of
| exercise, no phone access, and you wake up/sleep with
| sunrise/sunset.
|
| To maintain your circadian rhythm during normal times, try to
| wake up and go to sleep at the same time every day and eat
| only during three meals per day at the same time each day,
| avoid caffeine later in the day and also follow the advice of
| others here. Keep the room you are going to sleep in very
| dark and quiet. Don't go to bed until you are ready to fall
| asleep - don't use tv/phone/computer in bed.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| Melatonin a half hour before bed has changed my life. That and
| reading at night instead of watching TV.
|
| Oh and this is the weird one... I sleep with one
| airpod/bluetooth headphone in. I have ADHD and if I'm not tired
| enough I'll wake up around 2-4 to pee then be awake thinking
| about work/family/stupid things I did 10 years ago. I don't
| know how I got started doing this but now I listen to an
| audiobook at very low volume on a 15 minute sleep timer. I only
| listen to books I've read a bunch (currently I cycle between
| Hyperion books, enders game, LOTR, a handful of King novels,
| Stoner, The Great Gatsby - pretty much any book where I can
| pick up at any time and know whats going on without being too
| interested) and fall asleep to that.
|
| It prevents my mind from drifting and helps me sleep a lot
| better. As a bonus I get to reread/listen to classics I enjoy
| several times a year.
|
| I don't know anyone else who does this but I've been doing it
| for 2-3 years and its changed sleep for me dramatically.
| silksowed wrote:
| i've wired my brain to fall asleep about 20-30 minutes into
| my nightly podcast. really makes me enjoy weeknights when my
| favorite podcast drops, weekends i struggle haha
| bufordtwain wrote:
| I put one some white noise such as a fan or play the sound of
| rain such as this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6dkqlcyPTM
| it really helps.
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _I sleep with one airpod /bluetooth headphone in. I have
| ADHD and if I'm not tired enough I'll wake up around 2-4 to
| pee then be awake thinking about work/family/stupid things I
| did 10 years ago. I don't know how I got started doing this
| but now I listen to an audiobook at very low volume on a 15
| minute sleep timer_
|
| Wow, this is me, I do the exact same thing. Concentrating on
| the audio gives me something different to focus on and
| inevitably puts me back to sleep.
| bittercynic wrote:
| Similar here, but with certain youtube channels that feel
| very peaceful for me: forestyforest
| hoboshoestring wristwatchrevival clough42
|
| and a few others. I'd be interested in learning about more
| channels with a similar flavor, or if you're familiar with
| these and can help me find words for their common thread.
| W0lf wrote:
| I think you might also like myselfreliance on YT then
| syspec wrote:
| Wow are you me?
|
| The only difference is that I set the timer to 30min,
| sometimes 40min. Something about having a 15 minute timer,
| gives me sleep anxiety.
|
| That's a good idea on listening to books I've already read,
| as I definitely don't remember anything or know where to jump
| back into the next night.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > Melatonin a half hour before bed has changed my life.
|
| I thought your body habituated to externally-supplied
| melatonin and it became less effective with time; are you
| using it only sometimes or did I misunderstand?
| ryukafalz wrote:
| I don't believe this is the case, though it's worth noting
| that the doses you typically find at pharmacies are much
| larger than you actually need. From what I've read it's
| unlikely to be habit-forming at lower doses and it
| typically works just as well (if not better) at those
| doses.
|
| Lots of info here:
| https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-
| th...
| hanoz wrote:
| I've always done the same. As you say, it does have to be
| something very familiar. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
| original radio series more often than not, for me. I've tried
| purpose created material, like _This Book Will Send You to
| Sleep_ on Audible, but it was too interesting.
|
| I've never tried with a Bluetooth headphone but have always
| used a wired one, with one line cut off a the Y junction to
| help avoid tangling. Sometimes have to use a player which
| supports sending stereo as mono, otherwise you often only get
| one side of the dialog in dramatisations, like Hitchhiker's.
| darrenf wrote:
| I've slept with some kind of audio going for as long as I've
| had the ability to (i.e. since getting my first tape deck as
| a kid in the 80s). Certainly my parents found it hilarious
| that I'd put on a thrash metal tape and be asleep by the
| second song, whereas in silence I'd be awake for much longer.
| I've moved from music to speech and these days I wear an
| earphone because my partner doesn't share my taste in
| podcasts, but the habit is still strong after ~40 years. I
| never thought it was particularly weird, and have always
| assumed a fair number of people do the same. None of my
| partners have ever thought it odd, or told me so at least.
|
| I can't tell you _why_ I do it, mind. I don 't think I'd
| claim it drowns out unwelcome thoughts - if anything, when my
| mental health is poor the thoughts drown out the audio. I
| basically just don't really get on well with silence. To my
| knowledge I don't have ADHD.
| notahacker wrote:
| Biggest aid to me falling asleep more easily apart from cutting
| caffeine intake was software dimming the blue light on monitors
| in the evening
| emptyfile wrote:
| Exercise, earplugs, blackout curtains and going to bed 8-9
| hours before I have to wake up even if I'm not sleepy.
|
| Also not drinking caffeine later then 10 hours before sleep.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| All of this stuff is "basic" and if you aren't doing what
| emptyfile said, you should absolutely expect your sleep
| quality to be horrible. The other items on the list are:
|
| * Consistent sleep / wake up schedule
|
| * No meals at least 3 hours before bed
|
| * Same story with sugar as caffeine
|
| * Proper temperature in room
|
| * If you want consistency, sleep in a consistent posture and
| don't move
|
| * Turn off any electronics 30 mins before bed
|
| * Limit alcohol and other substances like User23 said
|
| Sleep is one of those things that has "obvious" solutions and
| is one of the easiest things to fix in life assuming no
| underlying medical problems.
|
| The ONLY other thing "this simple" is exercise and rote
| memorization.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| It should really be no caffeine after 12-2pm. The half life
| of caffeine can impact ones ability to sleep if consumed
| after that for most people.
| User23 wrote:
| Do you drink alcohol? Either don't or severely limit use,
| because it's well proven to reduce sleep quality.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| I fall asleep with triggers; for me they are mp3s of comedy tv
| shows. It needs to be something that I know through and
| through. I sleep with one earbud in and pass out when max a few
| minutes into an episode. It stays on when I wake up I sleep
| again (usually don't even notice that I woke up; sometimes my
| wife says I did). I am also a lucid dreamer, I can usually get
| back to the dream I was already in or stop my dream to get into
| another one. Although I might dream all of that; I do remember
| a lot of detail in the morning.
| loeg wrote:
| Black out curtains, keeping a consistent early-ish bed time,
| melatonin all help me.
| greenonions wrote:
| Amazed at the impact black out curtains have made for me.
| xeromal wrote:
| I've realized I sleep best when there's absolutely no outside
| light. I mean NO light. If my body detects even a hint of
| sunlight in the morning, it kicks off those slow wake up
| processes.
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| The .pdf of the actual study is available here:
|
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
| sujitjadhav wrote:
| Jor jor se bolke sabko scheme bata de.
| francisofascii wrote:
| They say junk food cravings increase when sleep deprived.
| Anecdotally, very true for me. My will power to choose good foods
| goes out the window when I am tired.
| nelsonfigueroa wrote:
| I can relate to this. I feel pretty terrible when I don't sleep
| well and I rely on junk food to make me feel "better".
| ufmace wrote:
| I've become extremely skeptical of this type of study. IMO, sleep
| needs and patterns vary so much between individuals that it's
| basically impossible for highly generic advice like this to be
| meaningful.
| cbozeman wrote:
| This is just patently untrue.
|
| Matthew Walker has been on a half dozen podcasts addressing
| this and almost all the data available in sleep research seems
| to suggest a lot of the same shit.
|
| Get 8 hours of sleep. No you can't function on 6. You just
| think you can.
|
| Have a sleep study done to see if you have sleep apnea, need a
| CPAP / BPAP.
|
| Don't drink alcohol and caffeine before bedtime.
|
| Don't look at screens about 2-3 hours before bedtime.
|
| This applies to over 99% of all the individuals they tested.
| anotherman554 wrote:
| There is no expert consensus saying people should get 8 hours
| of sleep. And also no evidence that humans naturally get 8
| hours of sleep.
| mediumsmart wrote:
| thank you for the subscribe popup modal telling me I don't have
| to read the whole thing.
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| Not exactly. Sleep quality (phase) plays a big role in this. Non-
| restorative sleep, regardless of duration, is not going to result
| in meaningful weight loss. The exception being that if you sleep
| through 1 or 2 meals it might, but that suggests other problems.
| friedman23 wrote:
| Yes, we should just listen to your rambling and crackpot
| theories instead of the study that has actual evidence.
| meepmorp wrote:
| it's one of those topics that brings out the anecdata and
| broscience; see also, nootropics
| friedman23 wrote:
| I'm not completely against the use of anecdata and
| broscience but don't bring up a theory in a thread that has
| literal evidence disproving it as the topic.
| howmayiannoyyou wrote:
| No need to be so rude, particularly when you are so
| completely wrong:
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4861065/
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29490885/
| tekla wrote:
| The study seems to directly contradict this statement
| charlieflowers wrote:
| Is this controversial or commonly accepted?
|
| Also, anyone know of ways laypersons can assess whether their
| sleep is non-restorative?
| lloeki wrote:
| personal experience X a bit of personal research on the
| matter:
|
| - deep sleep is restorative (AIUI the brain needs deep sleep
| otherwise it poisons itself, whereas e.g muscles don't, they
| need rest)
|
| - light sleep is important too but I feel that was not the
| question
|
| - I noticed I had a hard time falling asleep early/at
| "normal" hours
|
| - even if I did, waking up before 9am made me feel terrible
| through the day until 4pm, even though I had 8-12h of sleep
|
| - I got a fitness device (back then fitbit charge HR, now
| garmin forerunner 735xt) for unrelated reasons but figured
| out any data could be helpful as long as I'm aware of the
| limitations and error margins. Either device I had/have
| cannot record REM sleep, only deep+light+movement (via HR
| monitor+accelerometers)
|
| - over five years, data shows that either I sleep no earlier
| than 1am, or when I sleep before, it's only light sleep and a
| lot of movement, deep sleep starting between 1-3am
|
| - also, attempts at imposing myself an earlier sleep schedule
| (in order to get 8h of sleep given I started work at 9am)
| resulted in worse sleep/later deep sleep
|
| - sometimes on a given night, cumulative deep sleep as
| reported may look to be enough (e.g 3-4h) but looking at that
| night timeline graph showed that it was extremely segmented
| instead of a couple or three chunks
|
| - even if I'm extremely tired I cannot sleep before 1am. it's
| that or I sleep at 7-9pm and wake up within an hour after
| 23pm, theb can't get back to sleep until 3-4am
|
| - exercise helps (1h a day), circadian lighting helps (via
| home assistant + ikea tradfri), reading before sleep helps,
| time outside helps, sex helps, but any of that does not
| offset my schedule, it only makes it so I get more/better
| deep sleep
|
| - food doesn't seem to have much of an effect on me, except
| sugary stuff which makes me twitchy, and pasta which makes me
| sleepy but sleep quality is no better (and actually worse
| because it screws up my schedule)
|
| - caffeine has a measurable effect when taken after 2pm, non
| measurable before that
|
| - alcohol ruins my deep sleep with some linear-ish
| correlation
|
| - I also tracked weight, with bad sleep I could eat very
| little and not lose extra weight, but as soon as I get good
| sleep over a long enough duration, I can shed extra weight
| quickly, irrespective of food or exercise
|
| Overall, the device helped a lot in clearing some biases and
| understanding myself better, even though its data is
| imperfect and imprecise (e.g sometimes data is obviously
| messed up, sometimes it can't account for odd sleeping
| events) but being cognizant of that allowed me to interpret
| said data, understand specific events and long term trends,
| and manage my sleep schedule.
|
| EDIT: scratch the 5 years, I just checked and it's actually 8
| years, with some gaps. goddammit time flies.
| Frummy wrote:
| I remember some military study concluding that there is no
| replacement for time spent asleep. If there's a time debt,
| the only cure is to repay the time debt, no shortcuts.
| freecodyx wrote:
| I am an energetic person. I really find it very hard to fall
| asleep. But once i do, i really go into deep sleep, 7 to 8 hours
| of deep sleep. Also i am in my thirties. And i am still very fit
| and athletic body shape. Ppl are always surprised to know know
| that i am 30+ I only eat healthy food. Because i am very
| selective when it come to food and i don't feel hungry much. My
| brother used to be in a great shape. But past 30 he become
| overweight.
|
| Sleep is good but what you eat and how much you eat is the key
| camhart wrote:
| Ive found if I sleep less I eat more and I feel like garbage so I
| eat more junk food. I need my sleep.
| bbojan wrote:
| That's the effect of high gherlin and low leptin. It's a well
| known fact.
|
| When I was in the military on guard duty (very funky sleep
| schedule, you have 4 hours of duty then 2 hours for "sleep"), I
| was constantly hungry.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| > Sleeping longer than 6.5 hours/day can help you lose weight
|
| so can dysentery
| more_corn wrote:
| People sleep less than 6.5 hours a night?
| User23 wrote:
| Getting sufficient sleep is on the same level of importance for
| overall health as proper exercise and nutrition.
|
| Among other things, sleep is when the majority of most people's
| fat loss occurs, because the body is in a fasted state, oxidizing
| lipids for basal energy needs, and expelling the resultant Carbon
| Dioxide and water.
|
| There are a great many other metabolic systems in the body that
| are detrimentally affected by a lack of sleep too. It's quite
| important to get enough!
| racl101 wrote:
| My brain thinks about way too much shit at night to be able to
| sleep longer.
|
| I'd basically have to give up caffeine to achieve this.
| User23 wrote:
| If your caffeine use is interfering with your sleep, then it's
| adversely affecting your overall health. That's generally a
| good reason to discontinue or limit use of a substance.
|
| I get it though, we all like our pleasures in life. But some of
| them aren't good for us, so we have to choose between the short
| term pleasure of substance use versus the long term pleasure of
| not just longer life, but higher quality life when we're older.
| racl101 wrote:
| That would be tough for me.
|
| I don't smoke.
|
| I don't drink.
|
| I don't toke.
|
| I don't gamble.
|
| Only vice I have is drinking coffee and eating burgers.
|
| Coffee is one of those few things that brings me a lotta joy.
| petercooper wrote:
| I started listening to podcasts/audiobooks as I went to sleep
| about 10 years ago due to this and it hugely decreased the time
| it took to fall asleep. Unusual to be more than 10 minutes now.
| theodric wrote:
| Fewer hours awake is fewer hours snacking. When I was doing a big
| weight loss I'd be very careful about putting myself to bed at
| like 22:00, because the later I'm awake, the greater my risk of
| snacks and booze entering the picture.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| Relevant to both parts of this study: I can't recommend a walking
| treadmill with an electric standing desk enough. I walk about 4-5
| hours a day at ~2 mph. I can eat what I want and maintain my
| weight (or lose it), I'm more alert during the day and I sleep
| better at night.
|
| The only real issue is that if I have to think particularly hard
| on a problem I might have to step off of the treadmill/turn it
| off for a bit.
|
| I work from home and most of my work isn't mentally challenging,
| so I know I have it better than most. Still, for anyone who
| thinks it might be doable for them I'd recommend it. It takes a
| while to get used to, but it happens. Right now I'd love to find
| a way to incline the treadmill easily to increase the challenge
| without increasing the speed.
|
| Plus, you should see my calves. The bottom half of some pants
| look like leggings on me.
| woopwoop wrote:
| I've also started using an under-the-desk treadmill lately.
| Agree it's awesome. I have no idea how people get in 10,000
| steps or whatever without it. But holy crap you're walking 8-10
| miles a day!
| gwill wrote:
| do you have a treadmill that you recommend?
| subsubzero wrote:
| > I walk about 4-5 hours a day at ~2 mph
|
| So you are "walking" 8 to 10 miles a day, that is pretty
| awesome just being stationary so to speak, which translates to
| 700-900 calories burned a day. Just curious do you get tired at
| the end of the week?
| vaishaksuresh wrote:
| Do you mind sharing what treadmill you use?
| minsc_and_boo wrote:
| Not them, but IME anything that uses slat-belts is best for
| minimizing impact on your body (which adds up over daily
| use).
| koonsolo wrote:
| For me, I have an electric standing desk from IKEA, and a
| FlowFitness walking pad. Very pleased with that, since I can
| fold it and roll it out of the way with the wheels, once I
| want to sit down.
|
| https://www.flowfitness.com/treadmills/dtm100i/
| rootusrootus wrote:
| For people considering this, I recommend trying something
| inexpensive before going for one of the nice purpose built
| walking desk treadmills. The physiology of walking at 1 or 2
| mph isn't the same [for everyone] as full speed walking, and
| some people will have problems as a result. Better to figure
| that out _before_ you blow a bunch of money on it.
| koonsolo wrote:
| I'm doing the same thing, but only walk in the afternoon about
| 1 hour. It makes a difference indeed. Reading, typing and using
| the mouse is not as difficult as you would think.
|
| For hard problems I also need to sit down (that's why I do it
| in the afternoon).
| Flankk wrote:
| After years of using a standing desk I decided to up my game a
| bit. I'm now using an inversion table with a built-in laptop
| mount. This puppy has a 24V DC motor to maximize circulation
| for extended hacking sessions. I've found it has marginal
| productivity gains but colleagues no longer bother me during a
| sprint.
| kingrazor wrote:
| This begs the question, do you ever sprint while in a sprint?
| adolph wrote:
| I thought that was a big thing in the 18th century but Atlas
| Obscura says that may not be the case:
|
| https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/colonial-calves-men-fa...
| m463 wrote:
| Don't have a desk treadmill, but I do have one in the garage.
|
| When I exercise I trade off incline for speed.
|
| So I incline it to max (12%) and walk so I'm able to read but
| increase my heart rate.
|
| I can usually talk on the phone too (but limited circumstances
| out of politeness)
| Qub3d wrote:
| Nice! I personally have been amazed at my own increase in
| energy and weight loss simply by using a sit/stand desk and
| getting a fitness tracker.
|
| The hourly reminders to move really do show the science is
| right on when it comes to how effective even a few minutes of
| movement regularly throughout the day improves your health.
| hnbad wrote:
| Does the study correct for the reason _why_ the participants
| slept less than 6.5h /day? I'd suspect for many people the reason
| they don't get enough sleep is also the reason they find it
| difficult to maintain an optimal diet or exercise (and thus gain
| weight), i.e. stress.
| loeg wrote:
| For me it's at least partially a choice. I'm not too stressed
| but find it easy to stay up late if I don't make an effort to
| go to bed. (I had already observed that when I sleep more, it's
| easier to lose weight.)
| shadowdev wrote:
| This just in: sleep is important for health.
| pedalpete wrote:
| This article completely ignores the known "why".
|
| There are multiple factors in sleep that would have an influence
| on weight.
|
| 1) when you are sleep deprived, or don't get enough sleep, you
| have increased insulin resistence, which is related to increased
| fat stores [1]
|
| 2) reduced sleep causes you to crave sugary and fatty foods as a
| source [2]
|
| The idea from the article that sleep gained over x years would
| result in a * b reduction in weight is ludicrous. It doesn't work
| that way.
|
| I work in the sleep space as the founder of https://soundmind.co
| we're focused on improving Sleep Performance, the neurological
| function of sleep. Our DeepWave auditory stimulation is focused
| on some of the brains mechanisms that are associated with the
| insulin resistance mentioned above
| (https://soundmind.co/research).
|
| Happy to answer any questions.
|
| [1]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2018.00077..
| ..
|
| [2]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/getting-more-
| slee....
| Shadonototra wrote:
| the only thing that works:
|
| burn more calories than you take
|
| don't eat transformed food
|
| eat 1 cheat meal a week to wake up your metabolism, it can be
| anything, really, ice cream, pizza, burgers, anything
| YesThatTom2 wrote:
| One anecdote is not data but...
|
| True fact: when I was seriously losing weight I found that more
| sleep was key to my success.
|
| I don't snack when I'm sleeping!
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| You can also make better decisions and regulate yourself better
| with sleep.
|
| My weakness with food is always when stress and sleep hit some
| critical level where I can't look at bad food and say "that's
| not worth it". It's strange to think/admit but I am at the
| mercy of chemicals in that situation. My will power is best put
| towards getting to sleep on time and not buying junk in the
| first place. I tend to lose the battle if I'm tired and there
| is junk around.
|
| Here I am playing 1.5D chess with my biology, but what the
| hell. I'm no Jocko Willink.
| tacon wrote:
| Here is a test of your will power. Next time you see some
| junk food in your pantry, pick it up, take it to your outside
| garbage can, open the package, and dump it irretrievably into
| the container. Once you do that the first time, you switch
| from "The kind of weak person who buys junk food." to "The
| kind of strong person who has weak moments, but junk food
| does not define me, and I can destroy it even after I bought
| it."
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| My hate for waste overrides the logic. I can't stand food
| being wasted when people either cannot afford or it is not
| available.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| That seems like it's a little too empowering, feels as if
| you're saying that as long as an addict can flush their
| drugs they have their addiction beat.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| It could be construed that way, but it can also be a way
| to take a step back and remind yourself with actions
| rather than words that you have power over the situation.
| The more we take control over ourselves, the more our
| brains will gain the confidence and wire well for taking
| that initiative (at least according to what I've heard
| and read). So in that sense, it seems like it could be
| positive. It certainly isn't a perfect and final
| solution. It requires follow through for sure.
|
| These are nuanced and difficult things to find solutions
| for in any case.
| picture wrote:
| It's certainly a powerful step in the right direction
| though. Modulating your self identity really is a strong
| way to start breaking down bad habits or starting good
| habits consistently. Besides my own experience, I think
| there was a thread here a while back about "getting in
| character" to achieve unusual results
| munch117 wrote:
| Here's a version that takes much less willpower.
|
| The next time you buy junk food, the first thing you do
| as you get home is that you divide that junk food into
| two piles: That which you intend to consume today, and
| that which you were planning on saving for tomorrow.
|
| Then throw the part you were saving for tomorrow into the
| garbage.
|
| Now you are no longer at risk of overeating, because the
| excess is not there to tempt you, and you can enjoy the
| first pile without reservation, fear, or guilt.
| [deleted]
| anthropodie wrote:
| I get anxious when I sleep less and then I have to eat more to
| calm down. So in a way it makes sense that sleeping more can
| reduce weight.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| I don't have any issues with weight, but when I don't get
| enough sleep I feel slightly less tired for a bit after I eat a
| snack. A good portion of the population also gets their
| caffeine fix with empty calories as well.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I think it may be correct, but I still think we need to eat less,
| and exercise more.
|
| _> if the sleep extension was maintained for a period of 3
| years, it would result in approximately 12kg of weight loss._
|
| Sounds a bit simplistic.
|
| https://xkcd.com/605/
| boplicity wrote:
| That may be true for most people, however, there are many
| conditions that cause obesity outside of those two factors.
| Unfortunately, people are judged for being obese, even if it is
| due to a chronic illness or other factors outside of their
| direct control.
|
| Nothing wrong with promoting healthy eating and exercise, but
| unfortunately, this often turns into negative judgement against
| people that do not deserve it. These negative judgements often
| cause real harm. I know people whose doctors have dismissed all
| symptoms of real diseases, simply because they were obese.
| "Just lose weight" is what they've been told, far too often,
| when, in fact, there were serious conditions that needed
| immediate treatment.
|
| So yes, promote healthy habits, but please do so carefully, and
| without judgement.
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| Voicing an agreement with this. We know certain serious
| health conditions can actually cause obesity, so excessive
| attribution of symptoms to weight often makes things worse.
| More than once I've come across cases where someone's obesity
| is used to eg. overlook unexplained weight loss (an obvious
| cancer indication).
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| When 70%+ are overweight, 40%+ are obese, even in age 20 to
| 30, and 20%+ are obese in age 12 to 19, I think it is
| reasonable to make statements referring to the population
| at large needing lifestyle changes.
|
| https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-
| statisti...
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| Applying broad population-level statistics _over_ the
| individual patient is inappropriate medicine. An obese
| person who is losing a medically significant amount
| weight without going on a diet should be a serious sign
| for cancer screening, not a "well, good for you" and
| having the obese person's concerns totally ignored. An
| obese person who is gaining medically significant amounts
| of weight without lifestyle changes should be a serious
| sign for fluid retention issues, kidney failure, etc.,
| not a "eat less" and having the person's concerns totally
| ignored.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Yes, but when ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
|
| > we need to eat less, and exercise more.
|
| I interpret the "we" to refer to the collective as a
| whole (society that ChrisMarshallNY and the other readers
| on this forum belong to).
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| That's what I mean. I meant it in the _least_ judgmental
| way possible (fat lotta good that did, eh?). I feel that
| "we" Americans keep looking for "quick fix" cures, and
| people are more than willing to sell them to us, but the
| classics never go out of style.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I'm sure as hell not one to judge. I'm not exactly Charles
| Atlas (so you now know I'm old, as well as plump).
|
| I just do enough to try keeping the ticker going. Last time I
| checked, I was about 40 lbs over what I should be.
|
| I walk three miles, each morning, and have (regretfully)
| stopped eating a _lot_ of stuff I used to love (as I get
| older, more and more stuff disagrees with me. It 's been
| years since I've had ice cream).
|
| Nevertheless, I still wear pants with a waist bigger than the
| inseam, which is why I'm skeptical of their "math."
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| I feel like this has been known forever in the fitness industry /
| community.
|
| They've been saying for so long that
|
| 1. Sleeping more means less eating (both because you're asleep,
| duh, and because ghrelin is reduced)
|
| 2. Sleeping more means weight loss is higher % from body fat (not
| lean mass)
|
| 3. Sleep is important for recovery for training and then you can
| exercise again sooner
|
| For me I have a guideline that Sleep > Nutrition > Exercise >
| <bucket for all the other things, eg supplements> -- such that I
| will sacrifice the lesser thing if it means I do better with the
| greater thing.
|
| If I have to choose between getting at least 7 hours sleep or
| exercise, I sleep. (Ideally getting 8-9hrs sleep for my body)
|
| If I have to choose between having satiating, low calorie - high
| nutrition foods in the house, and exercising, I go grocery
| shopping or get chopping.
| amalcon wrote:
| To play devil's advocate here, there are several things that
| have or had been "known forever in the fitness industry /
| community", which are just plain false. "No pain, no gain" is
| probably the most famous.
| endorphine wrote:
| Title could be shortened to: Sleeping longer than 6.5h/day can
| help lose weight
| dang wrote:
| I haven't looked at the article but that does seem to follow
| tautologically from the submitted title ("Sleeping longer can
| help lose weight if you are sleeping less than 6.5h/day").
| softwaredoug wrote:
| I recommend too if you're over 40, or in any way have disrupted
| sleep, to nap 20-30 mins after lunch. Its a great life hack if
| you WFH and helps cope with so many sleep issues with aging IMO.
| It seems to help me and a large number of my colleagues > 40
| years :)
| civilized wrote:
| I've never been able to nap and it doesn't seem to be changing
| as I approach 40. If I'm desperately exhausted or stressed from
| sleep deprivation, I can sometimes lie down and rest and then
| get up feeling sort of refreshed. That's usually the closest I
| get.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| It's amazing how much better you feel even from just lying
| down for a while. I wonder how much is from the physical act
| and how much is from the mental. If it's the former one of
| those crazy computer setups where you can recline
| significantly could help.
|
| For what it's worth, the opposite also works for me. I have a
| standing desk and walking treadmill and I find walking helps
| keep me alert.
| QuercusMax wrote:
| For me one key to be able to rest / nap is to make sure I
| have my phone on silent and away from me, then set a 20 or
| 30 minute timer to ensure I don't rest too long. Knowing
| that anything that you need to respond to will only have to
| wait 20 or 30 minutes helps me detach and relax. Lying down
| for 20 minutes, 15 of which is sleep, is extremely
| restorative, and I can do it several times during the day
| if I'm really struggling.
| civilized wrote:
| Pretty much my exact experience except I don't have the
| walking treadmill yet. Wish I could recover more from lying
| down but it helps. Going outside for a walk is more often
| my go-to.
| gassiss wrote:
| I'm far from my 40s and I also benefit greatly from this hack.
| My afternoons are much more productive when I do so
| jonny_eh wrote:
| I'm 39 and have found naps transformative!
| martindbp wrote:
| I can add that I believed for a long time that napping was
| pointless because I can't fall asleep during the day (and takes
| 1 hr + at night), but I recently discovered that if I lie down
| still for 30-60 minutes after lunch, I get into this
| restorative meditative state. I can feel my arms getting
| heavier and I might twitch a bit, and I can feel like there's
| some kind of pressure in my head, but I'm still fully
| conscious. Despite not falling asleep, this short "nap" can
| feel like I effectively had 2-3 hours more sleep. Feels like
| it's flushing out all the bad stuff it didn't have enough time
| to do at night.
| vehemenz wrote:
| Does the 20-30 minutes include the 20-30 minutes it takes to
| fall asleep during the middle of the day?
|
| Maybe I'm exaggerating, but I don't think most people can fall
| asleep on demand during the middle of the day. Personally, I
| fall asleep within 5 minutes at night though.
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| I take a nap most days, I almost never completely fall asleep
| though. If I do actually fall asleep, it's often
| counterproductive since I'll wake up groggy.
| Moru wrote:
| My hard working farmer grandfather (1920-ish) always said
| to sit in a chair with your hand holding a spoon hanging by
| your side. When spoon hits the floor nap is over.
| gassiss wrote:
| The secret is to take the pressure out. It's about just
| relaxing your entire body as much as you can with your eyes
| close, like you do when you actually go to sleep. Even if you
| don't sleep, it's still beneficial.
| Moru wrote:
| The time to fall asleep is counted in. It can be enough just
| to lay down and close eyes 20 minutes in a dark quiet room to
| feel a benefit. Even if you don't actually fall asleep.
| MadcapJake wrote:
| It is definitely more challenging. I only feel like I can
| easily do it in the day if I am already sleep deprived.
| Dma54rhs wrote:
| While I can't do it I've lived in siesta countries and people
| actually do fall asleep in minutes. Don't know how but it
| must be learnable.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Less time awake = less time to eat
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