[HN Gopher] "TITO," the 100% electric, 100% Argentine car
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"TITO," the 100% electric, 100% Argentine car
Author : espacio
Score : 74 points
Date : 2022-06-21 19:42 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (argentinareports.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (argentinareports.com)
| saddlerustle wrote:
| The TITO is virtually identical to products from the Chinese
| white label EV manufacturer "Today Sunshine"[1]. I bet this is a
| made in China, assembled in Argentina type deal at best.
|
| [1] https://www.todaysunshine.com/
| adolfojp wrote:
| I think you're right.
|
| I found the car for less than 6 thousand USD in Alibaba.
|
| Someone else on this thread claims that Argentina is selling it
| for 9.5 thousand USD.
|
| The title claims it's a 100% Argentine car.
|
| And yet the article states the following:
|
| >In 2018 Coradir's CEO and his team decided to develop a
| battery bank platform, motor train and all the associated
| electronics so that any national car manufacturer could develop
| its own version of TITO, but the project fell flat.
|
| >"Then, we realized we already had a complete car and asked
| ourselves, 'what if we make it available to the public?' At
| that moment the 100% electric TITO was born,"
|
| This is awful everything.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| I don't get what your point about the quote is. What is
| contradictory about the article and the claim?
| trhway wrote:
| may be i'm spoiled by US market, yet it looks like a pretty high
| price for pretty underwhelming specs:
|
| "The basic edition costs around USD $16,500 and you'll pay around
| $18,250 if you want air conditioning.
|
| ...
|
| "TITO" is a 2.83 meter long, three-door urban car, with enough
| space for four people. It has a 4.5 kWh powered electric motor
| which receives its energy from a lithium battery with an eight
| kWh capacity. "
| csours wrote:
| This would never be highway certified in the US - which means
| it would basically be classed as a Neighborhood Electric
| Vehicle, so it would compete against golf carts here.
|
| I'm not saying that is the correct approach to classifying
| vehicles, just what I would expect to happen if it were brought
| to the US.
|
| As far as the price, if Argentina has tariff protections for
| automotive production, that could explain the price.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| _This would never be highway certified in the US - which
| means it would basically be classed as a Neighborhood
| Electric Vehicle, so it would compete against golf carts
| here._
|
| I wish there was a NEV-plus standard that had a 40 or 45mph
| top speed, that could get me to work, part of my commute is
| on roads with a 45mph limit, and a NEV can't drive there. I
| don't mind avoiding freeways and sticking to smaller roads,
| but I'd still have to drive on 45mph roads.
|
| I drive a small EV now and while it can go 80mph without any
| trouble, it's much more than I need in a commute vehicle.
| geodel wrote:
| This car is a beaut. So I think price is for fine craftsmanship
| and not purely on specs.
| adolfojp wrote:
| What makes you think this car has "fine craftmanship"?
| thomaslangston wrote:
| What are the US market examples at a similar price point or
| lower with same or better specs?
| boc wrote:
| The Nissan Leaf is US$27,800 Retail, and is eligible for all
| EV rebates which lowers the cost closer to US$20,000:
| https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html
|
| And it's a way better, 4-door highway-capable car.
| ankaAr wrote:
| Yes.., but the name doesn't come from au-tito or the little
| truck name "camione-tita"
|
| I think that, with u$20k you can buy a tito, a Liliana fan,
| 6 square meters of sheets and a pole to sail when the
| engine is overused and you still have money to roast a
| barbecue for you and friend. And maybe roast that piece of
| ugly engineering too..
|
| -_-
| crooked-v wrote:
| The Arcimoto FUV (https://www.arcimoto.com/fuv) starts at
| $18,000, can actually manage highway speeds (unlike the
| TITO), and has a roll cage built to match US passenger car
| standards.
| burntoutfire wrote:
| It's cheaper than the cheapest electric car available in EU,
| but with those specs it's barely a car and more of a large
| scooter with a chassis. For one thing, the safety in a crash
| must be horrible.
|
| EDIT: just checked and the cheapest electric car in the EU, the
| Dacia Spring, has a 1 star (out of 5) in the NCAP test. Can't
| imagine what TITO would get.
| james_pm wrote:
| Please give me more options like this in North America. I'd love
| something like this as the urban run-around to do quick errands
| that can't be done on foot or via transit. Something under $20K
| with enough range for a day of driving around. Even better, make
| it a shared vehicle and I'll just pay a membership to grab one
| from a lot around the corner for a few hours.
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| You're not alone. I thought we'd be there by now. But at this
| point in the USA the tipping point seems to be having short
| distance autonomous mode such that you can order a car and it
| will deliver itself to your door.
|
| That said, it's also telling the fed gov has made little to no
| effort to promote such an idea. Thanks Big Oil?
| sjcoles wrote:
| That just sounds like public transport with more steps.
| chroma wrote:
| US laws prevent this car from being sold to the masses. The
| vehicle lacks airbags, anti-lock brakes, and electronic
| stability control. I also doubt it would pass crash tests.
|
| You might be able sell it as a motorcycle, but then passengers
| would be required to wear helmets and the driver would need a
| motorcycle endorsement on their license. Another option would
| be to sell it as an ATV, but states tend to restrict ATV usage
| on public roads.
| catawbasam wrote:
| It would meet a need in the US if restricted to low-speed
| roads, eg for older drivers. Maybe young drivers and low-
| income people too. At low speed you just don't need a lot of
| the fancy stuff.
| dymk wrote:
| What are these low speed roads you're talking about? I'm
| not aware of any laws that allow a car to not have airbags
| on public roads based on speed.
|
| The closest thing I can think of is e.g. communities that
| have dedicated paved roads (which don't allow normal cars)
| for golf carts to putt around.
| crooked-v wrote:
| You seem to be unaware that low-speed vehicles
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-speed_vehicle) exist
| as a legal category.
| crooked-v wrote:
| Vehicles for that already exist in the US, like the Polaris
| GEM line: https://gem.polaris.com/en-us/street-legal-carts/
|
| You just don't see them because nobody in the US is willing
| to restrict the usage of normal cars, even where it's
| obviously needed.
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| The Arcimoto is technically a motorcycle (most states
| classify anything <4 wheels as a motorcycle) but there are
| exceptions in the majority of states that do not require a
| motorcycle endorsement nor a helmet for these types of
| vehicles.
|
| https://www.arcimoto.com/
| sjcoles wrote:
| The Aptera is trying to be something like this.
| crooked-v wrote:
| The Aptera is substantially more upmarket in both price range
| and functionality.
| yrgulation wrote:
| Please give us more of these in europe as well. We are choked
| by vws, bmws and mercedeses. Hopefully small electric cars will
| become the norm in urban centres.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| We should build a dyson sphere and get humanity to a Type II
| Kardeshev scale. Instead, the future looks like eating
| crickets, climate alarmicism, living in mobile pods and
| feeling good about driving 2 seater eco-cars. Sad.
| yrgulation wrote:
| So whats the plan? Keep doing what we are doing? I am not
| the hippie type, but we simply cant continue this way. I
| strongly disagree with people that say we need less
| creature comforts in order to improve our ways of managing
| the environment. I think we should aim for even more
| mobility, even more living space, even more food, but with
| much more care about our environment. Whats the worse that
| can happen? We get to breathe cleaner air for "nothing"?
|
| I sometimes pause and think about how we are able to
| harness the power of our star, or control atoms, to fuel
| our cars and power our homes instead of burning crap and
| inhaling smoke. I think we are getting somewhere.
| systemvoltage wrote:
| Yea, I think there is a general malaise in certain laptop
| class / elite class people. First of all, Fossil fuels
| are the most incredible thing mankind has ever invented.
| It lead to population increase and saved millions of
| lives, possibly hundrends of millions of lives. It has
| enabled everything from agriculture, mining to
| industrialization and medicine. If there is one thing
| that has had a profound positive impact on humans, that
| is Fossil Fuels. But ask anyone that they'll want to
| murder you for saying what I just said even though I
| haven't said a peep about carbon emissions.
|
| The malaise from people/media is separating Non-
| renewability of FF + negative aspect of carbon emissions
| from the benefits of FF. So the first thing is to remove
| the militant climate alarmicism and focus on solutions.
|
| Here is EU backpeddling the climate agenda that didn't
| have a sound backbone, this is what happens: https://www.
| ft.com/content/a8b179e2-b565-42b6-bb41-90aea4453...
|
| Second, we need to adopt a radical pro-energy agenda that
| transforms us from FF-mix to renewable-mix. Here is what
| the current Democratic party can do (but they won't): htt
| ps://twitter.com/JonSpearman24/status/1539044975429681152
|
| Third, push back on people that want depopulation,
| regression of life, reduction of standards, "equity"
| based resource usage, etc under the name of ESG, Climate
| Change, etc.
|
| The entire thing is a philosophical and political
| headwind. We could solve climate change completely and
| utterly if we invest in technology and build like a
| gazillion nuclear power plants.
|
| It makes me wonder if the malaise is not rooted in facts,
| but the elite/laptop class that wants to crush lower
| class into depopulation for their own benefits (their
| kids would have a less competition for resources for
| survival).
| [deleted]
| gambiting wrote:
| I got a Volkswagen e-UP recently, and it's incredible for
| what it is - 160 miles of electric range, small, very nimble,
| large enough for 4 people and some stuff in the back - it's
| perfect. I have a much larger much more comfortable SUV too,
| but the e-UP is my car of choice recently. It costs PS1.50
| for a full charge too - less than a litre of petrol.
| yrgulation wrote:
| Somehow the e-up wasn't on my radar until your comment now.
| Thanks for sharing your experience. I mostly ask uber
| drivers about their experience with full evs as they push
| them to their limits, and most drove nissan leaf or renault
| zoe. At least those i met, and were _very_ happy with them.
| I was told that even cars with >200km once the batteries
| are replaced they drive like new. Pretty impressive.
|
| But i think even those are still too large for cities. In
| my view we need to clean the air _and_ free up space, hence
| something smaller would be more suitable. Imagine how much
| less traffic there would be on the m25 or london if they
| were limited to micro cars.
| aeyes wrote:
| Another car in a similar category is the electric Smart,
| the only problem is the price.
| aeharding wrote:
| An Urban Arrow?
|
| https://na.urbanarrow.com/family-bikes/
| kazinator wrote:
| That looks to me like another piece of cruft to get rid of,
| along with strollers and car seats, as soon as the kids are
| grown.
| nus07 wrote:
| Wasn't the Nissan Leaf initially something like that ? I knew a
| bunch of friends who were buying 2-3 years old used Leafs for
| about 9k and using it for urban driving or daily commute .
| crooked-v wrote:
| You can already get equivalent vehicles for around the same
| price: they're street legal golf carts. For example, this
| company sells a bunch of models:
| https://bintellielectricvehicles.com/category/street-legal-g...
| NullPrefix wrote:
| >lithium battery with an eight kWh capacity. It can drive up to
| 100 kilometers (62 miles) with one single charge, and it takes
| between six to eight hours to fully charge
|
| It depends on how far is your urban run-around. 62 miles seems
| reasonable, but not at $16,500 to $18,250 price point.
| jasonpeacock wrote:
| Here you go: https://www.arcimoto.com/
| chollida1 wrote:
| Neat to see. I think the future of these cars will be alot like
| ARM chips.
|
| One company, probably foxconn, will build reference designs and
| individual companies will license those designs and tweak them,
| mostly on the interior and have foxconn either manufacture the
| entire thing or build the chassis/battery pack and let another
| company build the body/interior.
|
| That way you can skip the Rnd Process and just require a factory
| to build/assemble these in the country they are required.
| Assembling a car isn't easy but its far easier than designing
| them from scratch and its something that many countries and
| companies already have plenty of experience with.
| justin66 wrote:
| This is the present, not the future. A very high percentage of
| the parts of the Chevy Bolt were manufactured by LG Chem as
| part of an LG Chem reference design. (which worked out _great_
| )
| crooked-v wrote:
| Also see the Hyundai Ioniq 5, the Kia EV6, and the Genesis
| GV60 being basically the same car with different finishes and
| tweaking.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| Hyundai owns Genesis/Ioniq and part of Kia so it's not
| exactly the same.
|
| I think the parent commenter was talking more about a
| company specializing in the EV platforms like Hyundai-Kia's
| EGMP or VW's MEB on which other companies would build cars.
| pcardoso wrote:
| This was suggested by Frederic at this blog post
| https://mondaynote.com/evs-the-manufacturing-revolution-40a7...
|
| This is a blog by Frederic Filloux and Jean-Louis Gassee of
| Apple/BeOS fame.
| googlryas wrote:
| I'm guessing this won't sell well in Serbia
| rastignack wrote:
| You'd be surprised.
| djvdq wrote:
| It was my first thought when I saw the name
| novosel wrote:
| I am not so sure. The older folks would be full on it, but they
| are not the target group. The younger could be interested in a
| (hipster) ironic way.
| shimonabi wrote:
| In Yugoslavia, there was a slogan in the 80's: "After Tito,
| Tito".
| bjoli wrote:
| Tito was a dictator with all what that means, but he remains
| popular in large parts of former Yugoslavia. The main exception
| being the Albanians.
|
| Anecdata: I remember a poll where something like 4/5 of the
| Serbians asked considered life better under Tito than life in
| 2010: https://balkaninsight.com/2010/12/24/for-simon-poll-
| serbians...
| ankaAr wrote:
| XD!
| stuaxo wrote:
| A squashed mini.
| crooked-v wrote:
| It looks to me exactly like a golf cart that had a body kit put
| on it. Same proportions.
| gzalo wrote:
| As an Argentinean, we can get it for around USD 9.5k, but it
| lacks many basic features. It can't even go faster than 40 miles
| per hour / 65 km/h, so it can't really drive on freeways. It
| doesn't even have a trunk, so not really useful for groceries
| either (see https://youtu.be/B5_A2F_cDNI?t=139) No airbags
| either, but at those speeds it's probably not as useful (at least
| that's what they imply in its FAQs).
|
| Remember that the minimum wage here is around USD 200, so it's
| quite expensive as well. I'd rather get an ebike/scooter/used car
| and use it for longer trips.
|
| It's like an enclosed golf kart that could be usefuly for
| residents of gated communities or small cities (not sure how it
| would handle in cities with hills like SF though :P)
|
| No one seems to mention that it appears to be a copy of a chinese
| "Today Sunshine M1", but at 2.5x the cost :(
| baisq wrote:
| This is like the Venezuelan Vergatario. A Communist government
| selling a Chinese rebranded product as a national product.
| kragen wrote:
| In Argentine Spanish "verga" means "dick" (commonly in the
| metaphorical meaning "useless" or "annoying"), and "-tario"
| is a suffix meaning "recipient of" (an action), like English
| "-ee"--for example when leasing a house, the lessor is the
| "locator" and the lessee is the "locatario". This gives the
| amusing reading "recipient of dicking" to "Vergatario". So I
| don't think the Venezuelan cellphone would sell well here
| under that name.
| kragen wrote:
| The price quoted on https://movilidad.coradir.com.ar/tito/ is
| $2 120 250 or US$16 500, and indeed at the AR$220 dolar blue
| the peso price works out to about US$9600 today. I wonder why
| this price discrepancy wasn't mentioned in the
| "Argentinareports" article? Maybe they're just reprinting a
| company press release, complete with obviously photoshopped
| photos of the truck?
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| > It doesn't even have a trunk, so not really useful for
| groceries either
|
| Is this usually a limiting factor for people? I've always put
| my groceries on the back seats or back floor, even if I have a
| trunk.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > I've always put my groceries on the back seats or back
| floor, even if I have a trunk.
|
| Why? Isn't it easier to a access the trunk?
| jjulius wrote:
| The distance between the driver door and the passenger door
| (on the same side of the car) is shorter than the walk from
| the driver door to the trunk. If I've got just one or two
| bags of groceries, I'll toss 'em on the backseat. An entire
| cart-full of groceries is a whole 'nother story...
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| It's just what my parents did, so it's what I do. It's no
| harder to access than a trunk on a four-door car.
| zdragnar wrote:
| It depends on how large a family you are shopping for, and if
| you need to bring little kids with you when you go. A family
| trip without a trunk means no room at all for groceries.
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| Sure it's a limiting factor if you're bringing the _whole_
| family grocery shopping, but that 's probably less than 5%
| of all car users.
| the_watcher wrote:
| This car looks small enough that it doesn't have a backseat,
| so it's just the passenger seat available.
| karaterobot wrote:
| It says it fits 4 people, though some of those words should
| probably be in quotation marks. Probably has a tiny back
| seat.
| forinti wrote:
| Most of my trips are going to work, going to the gym, taking
| the kids to school.
|
| This car would be perfect for these trips.
| jxf wrote:
| > Remember that the minimum wage here is around USD 200
|
| Q: 200 USD over what time period?
| timbit42 wrote:
| Maybe meant $2.00 USD per hour?
| kragen wrote:
| No, Argentine wages are given per month, not per hour.
| boomchinolo78 wrote:
| It's monthly for sure
| giovannibonetti wrote:
| Probably monthly
| RussianCow wrote:
| They meant monthly, though it's not quite that low. According
| to Reuters[0], the national minimum wage as of this month is
| 45,540 (around 368 USD), and it will be increased again in
| August.
|
| [0]: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/argentina-
| accelerates...
| yazantapuz wrote:
| That's because the article uses the "oficial" usd exchange
| rate (~130 argentine pesos per dollar) that don't includes
| taxes. With taxes its ~200 per dollar. So, the minimun wage
| Is ~220
| kragen wrote:
| Reuters is using the fraudulent official exchange rate, not
| the real exchange rate, which is currently $216-$220 per
| US$. So if you take your monthly minimum-wage salary and
| convert it into dollars you will get about US$200, not
| US$368. You need government authorization to buy (a small
| amount of) dollars at the official rate, and there's a
| government policy to reserve dollars for rich people, so if
| you're working a minimum-wage job you won't get that
| authorization.
|
| If you're changing a larger amount of money at the free-
| market rate you can get as much as US$207 for each $45540.
| rasz wrote:
| >copy of a chinese "Today Sunshine M1"
|
| copy as in someone in Argentina Reverse engineered Chinese EV
| and is manufacturing it? or rebadge of Chinese made car while
| claiming to be "100% Argentine car" like that scam
| https://www.thelocal.se/20220129/hyped-swedish-car-start-up-...
| adolfojp wrote:
| It looks almost exactly like the Sunshine M1 but with a
| slightly different body kit.
| walrus01 wrote:
| this reminds me of the companies that have claimed to be
| the "manufacturer" of an electric motorcycle but are in
| fact importing a knocked down kit of electric motorcycle
| parts from an alibaba vendor in china.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| I mean, if they make the frame themselves, I don't see
| the issue. It's like saying that the the first Buells
| weren't made by Buell because they had a Harley engine
| and Ohlins suspension.
| walrus01 wrote:
| most of them import the frame too, the difference is on
| the decals and maybe some plastic body pieces only
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| Knowing Argentina's history with currency control, parallels
| economies and punitive import duties, it's probably the later
| where some insiders are pocketing the difference by claiming
| the car is "made in Argentina" (but is illegally imported
| from China).
|
| If you can't compete, slap duties!
| kragen wrote:
| That's not how it works here. You import things _legally_
| from China--not only without the punitive import duties
| applied to finished products but actually at the currency-
| control-subsidized exchange rate, so you get a 40% discount
| courtesy of the central bank--assemble them in Argentina,
| slap an eagle sticker on them that says "Industria
| Argentina", and sell them domestically while enjoying the
| punitive-import-duty protection from foreign companies, all
| 100% legally.
|
| The only tricky part is that if the ruling party decides
| they don't like you, they'll 100% legally deny you the
| authorization to buy the dollars you need to import your
| parts. Then you're sunk: there's no legal way to import
| your parts, and as an aboveboard business you can't use
| parts you import illegally.
|
| This is a big reason why our GDP is smaller now than it was
| ten years ago. We were already in a crisis before covid.
| Schroedingersat wrote:
| It has a second seat. No reason you need two people to go
| shopping.
|
| I'm just glad someone, somewhere is considering a sane vehicle
| rather than this ridiculous size/speed arms race. The many,
| many costs of doing 80-120km/h are nowhere near worth halving
| the travel time (at best).
| gandalfian wrote:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuling_Hongguang_Mini_EV
| Bestselling electric car in China $5000 15kw motor but otherwise
| remarkably similar.
| Giorgi wrote:
| For 100% Argentine car surely looks like a BMW's Mini countryman
| bloppe wrote:
| Does anybody else think the second image with the colors is
| clearly photoshopped? There's glare on the windshields even
| though they're in the shade, and all the cars are in perfect
| focus even though they span a decent depth.
| ankaAr wrote:
| -_-
|
| And one day everyone in HN knew about that ugly, almost sure 100%
| stolen design, overpriced and maybe useles golf cart.
|
| What a shame -_-
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(page generated 2022-06-21 23:00 UTC)