[HN Gopher] Mighty: The Browser You Didn't Know You Needed but D...
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       Mighty: The Browser You Didn't Know You Needed but Definitely Do
        
       Author : tosh
       Score  : 13 points
       Date   : 2022-06-20 20:29 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jacobhrussell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jacobhrussell.com)
        
       | iLoveOncall wrote:
       | It's a hot take but if you have more than 40 tabs open you have
       | to fix your workflow, not pay 30 bucks a month to avoid the
       | issue.
       | 
       | Shadow PC, Stadia, etc. have all been absolutely huge failures
       | and they solve problems that requires a LOT more compute than
       | what a browser needs, while being priced a lot cheaper and not
       | having the same privacy concerns as Mighty.
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | I've gone over 200 tabs while researching something. Firefox
         | handles the load just fine, and Tree Style Tabs provides a
         | terrific interface.
         | 
         | But I suppose 40 is a rounder number than 640, which used to be
         | "all anyone will ever need" number.
        
           | iLoveOncall wrote:
           | > I've gone over 200 tabs while researching something.
           | 
           | Yes, and my point is that you had a workflow issue.
        
         | projektfu wrote:
         | Windows fixes the problem by arbitrarily rebooting and
         | forgetting to remember all the tabs. Like having a significant
         | other who cleans your desk for you, making you forget what you
         | were doing.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | aabhay wrote:
       | > Mighty comes in at $30 with a 9% discount with a 12 month
       | prepayment
       | 
       | That is _expensive_, damn. For something that used to be free,
       | this is a very hard value proposition. In some ways, this is why
       | we live in a poisonous, ad infested nightmare internet, but it is
       | just so difficult for me to whip out my credit card when I have
       | safari right here instead.
        
       | djaahk wrote:
       | Curious to see if you considered Shadow Tech[1] as well, given
       | the similar price point ($30/month) and possibly wider use case
       | (whole cloud pc instead of just the browser)?
       | 
       | [1] https://shadow.tech/
        
       | zalo wrote:
       | Kasm is a self-hosted alternative that's free and avoids the
       | security issues.
        
       | colinsane wrote:
       | let me get this right:
       | 
       | - modern web apps offload loads of computation to the client,
       | bogging it down (AKA "bloat").
       | 
       | - Mighty discovered that the actual bandwidth/processing needed
       | by a client to render any page is significantly less than that
       | forced onto the client today.
       | 
       | - Mighty sits in the middle of the connection to shift the
       | processing burden off the client, and onto their own machines.
       | 
       | notice that (1) Mighty could sell this product either to the end-
       | user _or_ the web provider and (2) when the end-user buys this
       | product they're just subsidizing app developers and enabling them
       | to continue to ignore bloat.
       | 
       | don't do it... you're just opting to play the role of sucker even
       | more than you already do.
        
       | lumberjack24 wrote:
       | My brother in Christ, you have an email job and you definitely
       | don't need this browser.
        
       | dchuk wrote:
       | I was actually very interested in their product when I first read
       | about it...until I got a 14" M1 Macbook Pro.
       | 
       | Now, every single thing I do on this computer is instantaneous.
       | It doesn't matter if I have 5 or 500 browser tabs open, it just
       | keeps running as fast as anything I've ever used.
       | 
       | This computer fixed Chrome for me.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I think just "get more RAM" is a good blanket suggestion. A lot
         | of cheap laptops come with 4 or 8 gigs of memory, which can
         | pretty easily suffocate the average user's Chrome session. Even
         | the 8 gig M1 Macbook Pro could get saturated pretty easily,
         | swap enabled or not.
        
         | scotcha1 wrote:
         | i had the exact same experience
         | 
         | but i don't know if everyone will have that same ability.
         | 
         | It almost feels like a 'home gym' vs a 'gym membership'
         | scenario. Upfront cost for a home gym is quite expensive,
         | whereas the gym membership is spent over time.
         | 
         | All-in you may spend a lot more on the gym membership, but
         | because you eat it over time, it feels better to a certain
         | population of people
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Mighty is cheaper though.
        
           | b0sk wrote:
           | What happens when the Mighty servers are down?
        
           | TheDong wrote:
           | Is it?
           | 
           | I would guess that I need a computer that has graphics
           | acceleration to run the mighty client at a reasonable speed.
           | I need at least enough memory locally to run the mighty
           | client + the base OS it runs on.
           | 
           | My experience of using Zoom, Youtube, etc has been that video
           | streaming is much more intensive than rendering text
           | webpages, like hacker news, in a local browser instance.
           | Maybe they're sending down local draw commands instead of
           | actual video, which maybe helps some?
           | 
           | I wouldn't be surprised if the system requirements for Mighty
           | are almost identical to the system requirements for Chrome
           | with <150 tabs and an adblocker installed.
           | 
           | In reality, the $30/mo for mighty is on top of a computer,
           | not instead of one, since you still need a computer _anyway_
           | to use Mighty.
           | 
           | I don't see system requirements listed on their website to
           | compare chrome vs the mighty client, which honestly seems
           | like a bit of an omission for something that talks so much
           | about performance.
        
           | dchuk wrote:
           | Assuming I don't drop this computer and smash it to bits,
           | I'll be able to keep it as long as my last MBP (a 2015 I
           | bought new). So conservatively, let's say 5 years.
           | 
           | At $30/month, Mighty would be $30 * 12 * 5 = $1800 over that
           | time period.
           | 
           | I paid ~$2500 for this computer, and use it for:
           | 
           | 1) Browsing 2) Coding 3) Video and photo editing 4) Graphic
           | design
           | 
           | So all things considered, while yes it's literally cheaper in
           | terms of direct dollar and cents comparison, in terms of
           | functional ROI, given that this computer runs a browser
           | instance with zero lag or latency at all, it's a no brainer
           | to just invest in the good laptop vs going with Mighty.
        
             | Confiks wrote:
             | > Assuming I don't drop this computer and smash it to bits,
             | I'll be able to keep it as long as my last MBP (a 2015 I
             | bought new). So conservatively, let's say 5 years.
             | 
             | The benchmark is not whether your existing computer breaks
             | to pieces, but whether it can do that "1) Browsing 2)
             | Coding 3) Video and photo editing 4) Graphic design"
             | smoothly for the coming 5 years in the newest versions of
             | popular applications, as they inevitably get more demanding
             | for older hardware.
             | 
             | That being said, I don't think the SaaS-part of the value
             | proposition is particularly convincing, and there barely is
             | anything else.
        
       | metabagel wrote:
       | https://www.slashgear.com/mighty-the-stadia-of-browsers-thin...
       | 
       | "It also opens the door to legitimate privacy and security
       | concerns. For Mighty to work, everything you type - every
       | username, password, address, credit card number, SSN, and more -
       | has to be routed through its servers. Every website cookie is
       | saved there too.
       | 
       | Mighty's answer is that its servers and code were audited by a
       | third-party firm in February 2021, and that its infrastructure
       | will be audited each year. Sensitive data is encrypted, it adds,
       | on an isolated virtual machine, and not backed up anywhere else.
       | Automated tools, rather than humans, manage things like browser
       | updates, and the company says it has policies that employees
       | can't view your history. Keystrokes, meanwhile, are encrypted for
       | transmission, and not stored.
       | 
       | There's not, however, HIPAA compliance, or SOC-2. Mighty says "we
       | may look at getting compliance in late 2022." Two-factor
       | authentication is also "coming soon," the startup says."
        
       | mikl wrote:
       | The author says it himself:
       | 
       | > _I don't think Mighty is for everyone._
       | 
       | I certainly don't need a subscription service to run a browser in
       | the cloud, when I have a computer in front of me that's perfectly
       | capable of running one locally.
       | 
       | Mighty is awful, both from a privacy and a resource conservation
       | perspective. The computing equivalent of commuting alone to the
       | office in a Humvee.
        
       | dralley wrote:
       | https://twitter.com/cmuratori/status/1387126330961981441?lan...
       | 
       | "Running a browser to connect to the cloud to run a browser to
       | connect to the cloud to retrieve the contents of a single 2D page
       | to recompress and send back to the original browser is now "the
       | future of computing"."
       | 
       | "Perhaps we need a new "test", like the "Turing Test", but this
       | time for when humans can no longer tell the difference between
       | new technology and old technology. "Mighty", for example, is just
       | a "dumb terminal" - technology we had in the 1970s. Yet it is
       | called "the future"."
        
       | treelovinhippie wrote:
        
       | wizofaus wrote:
       | "Error 1027 This website has been temporarily rate limited"
       | 
       | Apparently now everyone does know they need it...
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | If a browser isn't from a name company (i.e. Google, M$ or Apple)
       | then it HAS to be open source. There is no trust otherwise.
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | This sure is an attempt at a solution to the problem of too many
       | programs being written as Javascript apps that use about 200x as
       | much resources as a native app.
        
       | akarlsten wrote:
       | If you can afford $30+ per month you can probably afford to
       | finance a new M1-based Macbook (or even better/cheaper, a desktop
       | PC) that would blow the "blazing fast" performance out of the
       | water, right?
       | 
       | Single-core performance is obviously not a top priority for
       | server CPUs, but is as far as I understand it very important in a
       | browser context, where JS runs in a single thread (with certain
       | exceptions like workers, etc.). It's interesting to note then
       | that the top-of-the-line AMD EPYC processors, which Mighty
       | advertises that they use, have single-core performance scores of
       | 2400-2900 in PassMark's CPU benchmarks while the cheapest
       | baseline M1 used in the old Macbook Air scores a 3762. It even
       | has the same number of total cores for multi-threaded tasks!
       | (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html)
       | 
       | Same thing with the RAM, while it's perhaps the most appealing
       | part of the proposition, it's basically a commodity and 32GB is
       | not outlandishly expensive for your own device (especially in the
       | desktop space).
       | 
       | All the other stuff is basically free if you know how to download
       | Chrome extensions and don't live in a place with bad internet
       | infrastructure. Not to mention the myriad privacy concerns.
       | 
       | Mighty is perhaps very unfortunate that Apple decided to develop
       | and release the M1 when they did, if they never had I can imagine
       | this offering being a lot more appealing for semi-technical
       | creatives stuck on old Intel MBPs (which seems to be the target
       | audience?)
        
       | chx wrote:
       | > By providing 2 Gps of bandwidth, 40 GB of RAM, and 8 vCPUs to
       | each browser instance
       | 
       | I have a 11850H laptop with 64GB of RAM already. You were
       | saying...?
        
       | danShumway wrote:
       | I vaguely remember commenting something to the same effect when
       | Mighty first popped up on HN, but ignoring all of the other
       | problems of streaming my web browsing off of someone else's
       | computer (which is a giant problem, I have zero interest in
       | routing all of my network requests through this company), I just
       | can't figure out how to make ~$330-360 a year competitive pricing
       | as a long term investment.
       | 
       | I'm supposed to spend $1000 every 3 years for just a web browser
       | and no other computing hardware, for a machine that I don't get
       | to keep? I just don't see it, who are the people who need this
       | kind of performance from a web browser and who wouldn't want to
       | buy decent machine that can also do stuff like play games or run
       | native software? An average computer will last me 3-4 years at
       | least, and for somewhere in the neighborhood of $1200-1300 I can
       | get a good computer.
       | 
       | And it'll handle web usage just fine. Maybe this is just that I'm
       | on Linux/Firefox, but they're bragging about 40 tabs, and that's
       | nothing. I regularly run 500 tabs in Firefox, and have on
       | occasion reached 1000-1500 during periods where I've completely
       | fallen off of the organizational bandwagon and completely broken
       | down in terms of maintenance. I'm not saying that's good, but I
       | am saying I don't need 40 Gigs of RAM to do that. This is wild
       | overkill for web browsing. Even if they're never closing any tabs
       | ever, it feels weird that this company is building a browser
       | (even just wrapping around Chrome), and they're identifying a
       | problem with existing browser UIs and resource management, and
       | instead of copying Firefox's tab unloading, or improving
       | workflows so it's easier to serialize and save tabs and close
       | them -- instead we're going all in on streaming?
       | 
       | Do what you want I guess, but if Firefox can pull off 500-1000
       | tabs with 16 Gigs of RAM on my computer, and my computer can also
       | run native apps and games... I don't know, what's being offered
       | here does not seem like it's worth $330 a year to me, but people
       | are free to make their own decisions.
        
         | liuliu wrote:
         | For people whose main work happens in browsers and have strict
         | security requirements (in the sense that the corporation
         | doesn't want you to have any piece of the information you
         | worked on in your personal laptop).
         | 
         | There are a few scenarios like this (law firms, accounting
         | firms and trading firms).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | danShumway wrote:
           | > and have strict security requirements
           | 
           | The problem is that this browser isn't really suitable for
           | that as far as I can tell.
           | 
           | I don't see really convincing strong guarantees about data
           | security -- they're certainly making an attempt to say that
           | your data is secure being routed through their servers, but
           | can they prove that well enough that a reputable law firm or
           | a hospital is going to be comfortable with it?
           | 
           | If they moved into something like self-hosting for firms, on-
           | premise support, etc... I could definitely see a business use
           | case for that.
        
       | monkaiju wrote:
       | Damn, i cant think of behavior i dont want from a browser more
       | than the browser not running on my computer...
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | When Microsoft, Google and Apple start offering this as your
         | go-to I'll stick to Firefox exclusively. This is like NSA wet
         | dreams tier. To be fair, Firefox is my main driver, I only
         | really use the others to test my web applications work fine
         | across browsers, or in the case of Edge for the battery life
         | savings on my work laptop.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-20 23:02 UTC)