[HN Gopher] Paige Thompson convicted over data theft from AWS us...
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       Paige Thompson convicted over data theft from AWS user accounts
        
       Author : hericium
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2022-06-20 11:05 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techmonitor.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techmonitor.ai)
        
       | O__________O wrote:
       | Here's a link to the Capital One Data Breach Class Action
       | Settlement:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31809259
       | 
       | (Deadline to opt-out is less than month away.)
        
       | benmmurphy wrote:
       | I've seen the vulnerability described as a misconfigured
       | mod_security server acting as a WAF. But how is it even possible
       | to misconfigure something like this? Forwarding to a backend
       | server dynamically based on the host header sounds like more work
       | to setup than doing it statically. The ips for your hosts would
       | have to resolve differently for the WAF host than publicly or
       | else you would have a loop.
        
       | zydex wrote:
       | Appears to me to be a bit of a misleading title; the hack cost
       | Capital One $270m in fines and compensation. Title seems to imply
       | $270m was stolen in the hack.
        
         | edgyquant wrote:
         | That was definitely the implication I took but I don't think
         | the title is misleading. If the hack cost a company 270m it was
         | a 270m hack imo. Similar to how we measure property damage.
        
         | hericium wrote:
         | Thanks for pointing it out. I've edited the title.
        
       | t0mas88 wrote:
       | The title is a bit misleading, the hack was a theft of personal
       | data, not money. The data also wasn't sold for that money.
       | 
       | The $ 270m is an estimate (on the low side) of the total cost to
       | the bank, based on being fined $ 80m by the regulator and paying
       | $ 190m to affected customers as settlement in a class action
       | lawsuit.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Full title is "Former AWS engineer convicted over hack that
         | cost Capital One $270m", so yeah, misleading
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | kache_ wrote:
         | Not to mention the brand damage. Costco stopped using capital
         | one in Canada, wonder if it was related.
        
           | eli wrote:
           | Costco plays hardball with its banking partners. I'm sure it
           | was about money.
        
       | jmcgough wrote:
       | This is the 3rd person from my teenage irc days who has gotten v&
       | for something stupid. Paige was a bit unhinged so it's not
       | surprising. Some day I'll dig up my old hard drive with chat logs
       | for entertainment.
        
         | edmcnulty101 wrote:
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | I also met Paige (erratic) once, some time around 2009-2012
         | (possibly at Metrix? somewhere on Cap Hill), and got the
         | impression there was a screw or two loose.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | Who were the other two?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | skeeter2020 wrote:
       | "She then used those misconfigured accounts to hack in and
       | download the data of more than 30 entities, including Capital One
       | bank."
       | 
       | I don't think they're intentionally using the original meaning of
       | the word "hack", as in "focused on outcome not methodology" but
       | trying to paint this as some sort of evil mastermind who somehow
       | defeated the security of (what I assume was) wide-open public S3
       | buckets?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | proxyon wrote:
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | A trajectory topic: this kind of incidents makes it extremely
       | unpleasant to work for AWS as an engineer. AWS treats security
       | seriously. This type of incidents prompts AWS to introduce more
       | red tapes for good reasons, but the side effect is that engineers
       | are subject to kinda hostile development environment. A SDE-2
       | security engineer could shut down a major project by citing vague
       | reasons like "the design is not user friendly", for whatever the
       | f&*% that means, and the team had to escalate all the way to L8
       | or even L10 with pages and pages of "narratives" to get
       | unblocked. Engineers can't ssh to production machines (again, for
       | good reasons). Data platforms have rigorous rules for egress
       | connections, making data processing very unpleasant, to say the
       | least. If you were an engineer who just enjoys getting things
       | done, working for a smaller company will be a much more pleasant
       | experience.
        
         | jtoberon wrote:
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | There's an update blog post on this from Cloudflare's product
       | security manager:
       | 
       | https://ejj.io/blog/fixing-capital-one
       | 
       | The linked Wyden letter makes for interesting reading too:
       | 
       | > "While it is likely that Amazon has known that its AWS product
       | was vulnerable to SSRF attacks since the first high-profile
       | demonstration by a security researcher in 2014, the company has
       | certainly known since mid-2018 at the latest. In August of 2018,
       | Amazon's security team was contacted by email by a cybersecurity
       | expert, who recommended that Amazon adopt the same cybersecurity
       | defense against SSRF already used by Google and Microsoft. A copy
       | of that email is attached. Amazon failed to act on this third-
       | party report and has not provided an explanation for its
       | inaction."
        
         | Omnipresent wrote:
         | > The problem is common and well-known, but hard to prevent and
         | does not have any mitigations built in to the AWS platform.
         | 
         | Does anyone know if this is fixed by AWS now?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | thedougd wrote:
           | IMDSv2 with tokens required is the fix:
           | 
           | https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/configur.
           | ..
        
             | zsims wrote:
             | Partial mitigation. It's not SSRF "proof" but I suppose
             | nothing really is.
        
         | thereddaikon wrote:
         | We aren't going to see real change until vendors start facing
         | consequences for their negligence. Yes the criminals who
         | exploit these vulnerabilities should go to prison but there
         | also needs to be consequences for companies that don't bother
         | patching vulnerabilities when they know better.
        
       | unigrin wrote:
        
       | codedokode wrote:
       | Here is something that doesn't feel right. The article says:
       | 
       | > The breach has so far cost US bank Capital One, one of the 30
       | institutions affected, more than $270m in compensation and
       | regulatory fines.
       | 
       | The bank claims that it is hacker's fault.
       | 
       | But isn't it wrong? Bank was fined and sued not for having been a
       | victim of a hack but for not storing data securily, not
       | configuring the cloud accounts properly. For not following
       | required procedures. Therefore, as I understand, the bank should
       | have been fined even if there were no breach.
       | 
       | Or are they blaming the hacker for exposing the violations? Do
       | they assume that it is ok to violate regulations as long as
       | nobody knowns about it? That's ridiculous.
        
         | SolarNet wrote:
         | I mean to be clear up front she very much did do a crime, she
         | is not a white hat hacker, however.
         | 
         | > Here is something that doesn't feel right.
         | 
         | I totally agree, it's a strong indicator of an oligarchy. Same
         | as Chevron basically putting a lawyer in jail for suing them on
         | behalf of the people's whose lands they poisoned. Threats to
         | wealth are punished by our "justice" system more severely than
         | similar crimes.
        
         | dahfizz wrote:
         | These are two independent, but related, things.
         | 
         | The bank indeed was guilty of not properly securing customer
         | data. The breach exposes this, and the bank was fined and sued
         | accordingly.
         | 
         | Thompson is also guilty of wire fraud for the breach. You can't
         | steal stuff just because it's easy.
         | 
         | It doesn't have to be one or the other. The bank was negligent,
         | and Thompson is a fraudster.
         | 
         | > The bank claims that it is hacker's fault.
         | 
         | I don't see that claim in the article.
        
         | naikrovek wrote:
         | the hacking happening means the accounts weren't secure, hence
         | the fines and settlement.
         | 
         | the insecure configuration is not tied to the hack, and was
         | only exposed because of it.
         | 
         | the insecure configuration was there, independent of the
         | hacking, yes, but it was unknown.
         | 
         | so, the hacker only made regulators aware of the problem, and
         | that's what Capital One blames the hacker for. regulators would
         | not have known if the hacker didn't take advantage of their
         | insecure configuration, and now, regulators are fining them.
         | 
         | to you and me, the fault is on capital one for having the
         | insecure configuration, and on the hacker for exploiting it.
         | 
         | to capital one, they did nothing wrong, and were only punished
         | because of the actions of someone else.
        
           | findalex wrote:
           | Seems like Capital One was punished by the feds. Now they are
           | punishing the hacker.
        
             | dahfizz wrote:
             | >Now they are punishing the hacker.
             | 
             | To be clear, "they" is the feds. Wire fraud is a federal
             | crime. The federal government brought this case against
             | Thompson.
        
       | hgazx wrote:
        
       | ZiiS wrote:
       | Important to be clear that 'AWS engineer' is mostly a
       | coincidence. This is not believed to have relied on any internal
       | knowledge or access. Though the data was also on AWS and arguably
       | they could have made it easier to correctly configure the
       | compromised WAF.
       | 
       | https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/08/what-we-can-learn-from-t...
        
         | ed25519FUUU wrote:
         | Yeah that seems like a really click-baity part of the article,
         | like she used some internal thing to pull it off. It appears
         | she just worked at AWS at some point before she downloaded the
         | data.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | Is it really the hack that cost Capital One $270m, or the
       | misconfigured server? While she's obviously in the wrong here, I
       | doubt it makes sense to pin the whole sum on her.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | OK, try these on for fit:
         | 
         | "Is it really the theft that cost the person the valuables
         | stored at home, or the fact that they didn't have live armed
         | guards or didn't store it in a vault? While the thief is
         | obviously in the wrong here, you doubt it makes sense to pin
         | the whole sum on him."
         | 
         | "Is it really the rapist that cost the person's life, or the
         | fact that they weren't fully armed and were not at home after
         | sunset? While the rapist/murderer is obviously in the wrong
         | here, you doubt it makes sense to pin the whole sum on him."
         | 
         | These are not accidents like parking a car at the edge of a
         | cliff and forgetting to put it in gear and set the parking
         | brake.
         | 
         | These are deliberate premeditated actions by another party
         | exploiting some weakness or error. Of course it helps to avoid
         | weakness or errors, but the point of a civilized society is to
         | not have to live like we're constantly under assault in an
         | armed camp.
         | 
         | The criminal is a criminal, and the entire amount rests on
         | his/her head.
         | 
         | That said, it is also appropriate for those who lost to analyze
         | the losses and improve their situation. If there was already a
         | spec or procedure to handle this, and it was not followed, then
         | it would not be surprising to see some workers and managers
         | retrained or sacked. But zero of this reduces the criminal's
         | responsibility or liability.
         | 
         | I suppose that if there is anyone to blame for shortcomings
         | incurring costs, it is the criminal herself. Aside from
         | deciding to do the crime in the first place, she also had bad
         | enough opsec to get caught, and that will come with a price.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | All of your analogies forget one important thing. Capital One
           | was storing _other people 's data_ and acting in the role of
           | the bank or vault. They have a duty to store those things
           | securely.
           | 
           | Or to put it another way, if someone breaks into the bank and
           | steals your valuables from your deposit box, are you going to
           | blame the thief, the bank, or both?
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | Good points - Capital One did have a duty to care more than
             | just for their own data.
             | 
             | My beef is with the comment that somehow the criminal is
             | less responsible for the crime. It is not like they
             | entrapped the person to do the crime.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Assigning responsibility is always a moral judgement and
               | different people will come up with different answers
               | based on their own morality.
               | 
               | If someone walks into the bank and the doors are wide
               | open, no one is there, and the vault is just open, so
               | they decide to grab some visible valuables, how much
               | responsibility is actually on the thief?
               | 
               | I mean obviously there is some responsibility, but how
               | much is more of a moral judgement than anything else.
        
               | toss1 wrote:
               | Fun example!
               | 
               | Agree, it's all judgement, and there's clearly a broad
               | spectrum. Some good example points on it might include:
               | 
               | * Implemented all possible security measures, above and
               | beyond reasonable, but were breached by a nation-state
               | actor.
               | 
               | * Took reasonable professional-standards measures, but
               | were breached by professional thieves.
               | 
               | * Took most standard measures, missed some, but were
               | breached by a modestly skilled thief.
               | 
               | * Were somewhat negligent and some people found an
               | unlocked door and stole the goods.
               | 
               | * Created an attractive nuisance, too tempting for some
               | people to avoid, and some people looted the place.
               | 
               | * Left the goods out on the sidewalk and were surprised
               | when people helped themselves.
               | 
               | In all but the last sidewalk example, I'd say the taker
               | has full responsibility as a thief - an honest person
               | would not get involved, and a skeptical person would
               | wonder if it was a honeytrap.
               | 
               | All but the last two examples require not only
               | dishonesty, but also require specific planning and
               | actions to get the goods. In all but the last two
               | examples, I'd say that the taker is responsible for their
               | acts, and nothing about the owner's actions mitigates
               | that.
               | 
               | That said, the protector of the goods also has full
               | responsibility for taking appropriate measures for the
               | reasonably foreseeable threats.
               | 
               | I guess I'd put it as responsibility is not divided but
               | added or multiplied by the parties.
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | I'm confused... do your totured analogies identify Capital
           | One as the victim?
           | 
           | >> These are not accidents like parking a car at the edge of
           | a cliff and forgetting to put it in gear and set the parking
           | brake.
           | 
           | They left S3 buckets parked on the edge of a cliff with (the
           | personal information of) customers sitting in the passenger
           | seat, and failed to stop them (from being publicly visible)
           | with security.
           | 
           | Sounds exactly like your example.
        
           | ryanschneider wrote:
           | You can be both negligent _and_ preyed on by criminals. It
           | doesn't make the criminal any less criminal, but it also
           | doesn't make you any less negligent.
        
         | destroy-2A wrote:
         | Interestingly nobody would be fined by the regulator had the
         | misconfiguration not been discovered by someone stupid enough
         | to to post about it with their real name, organised criminals
         | would have been smarter about it. The misconfiguration on a
         | "firewall" sounds like AWS is deep into the capital one org
         | tightly controlling the narrative. Whilst at the end of the day
         | it was an EC2 that had access to all the accounts S3 buckets
         | that was configured to pass out its role token to anyone that
         | asked and the bucket itself had no protection against outside
         | access with a compromised key. This to me sounds like absolute
         | negligence for an FI and rightfully deserves the fine. Back
         | when this attack was done the AWS service made it very complex
         | to mitigate against this type of attack and since then AWS have
         | scrambled to release a bunch of "features" to fix this like
         | Aws:calledvia , s3:resourceaccount condition key, s3 block
         | public access came out just before attack was made public I am
         | sure there were others but this is what I can recall.
        
           | Zombieball wrote:
           | > and the bucket itself had no protection against outside
           | access with a compromised key
           | 
           | Any advice on how to safeguard against this?
        
             | jhugo wrote:
             | Don't use static keys, and audit access to sensitive
             | resources.
             | 
             | If possible, use VPC endpoints and lock down the bucket to
             | only allow access from them.
        
           | addingnumbers wrote:
           | > Interestingly nobody would be fined by the regulator had
           | the misconfiguration not been discovered by someone stupid
           | enough to to post about it with their real name, organised
           | criminals would have been smarter about it.
           | 
           | Isn't there a third option, fully anonymous disclosure by a
           | grey hat?
           | 
           | Seems like the best outcome would be from showing it to a
           | scrupulous journalist who protects sources, and it looks like
           | you're discounting that.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | The only tragedy here is that this Paige person will get in
       | trouble and Amazon will likely not.
        
         | culpable_pickle wrote:
         | What did amazon do wrong here?
        
           | zenexer wrote:
           | The metadata service is a big issue. When you pair EC2 with
           | common, off-the-shelf software, you can end up inadvertently
           | allowing requests to EC2's metadata service. That allows an
           | attacker to gain the same privileges as the EC2 instance
           | they're hitting, which often means they can access resources
           | like private S3 buckets.
           | 
           | While the metadata service isn't technically a vulnerability,
           | it's poorly designed. Not enough thought went into its
           | security, but too much relies on it for them to disable the
           | current version overnight. Any changes are going to take many
           | years.
        
           | doopy1 wrote:
           | Not fix a gaping hole that they was reported to them
           | repeatedly for years.
        
       | oblio wrote:
       | The title, both here and in the original article, is pure
       | clickbait. Especially the "former AWS engineer" bit, how is that
       | relevant to anything?
        
         | hericium wrote:
         | > the "former AWS engineer" bit, how is that relevant to
         | anything?
         | 
         | She worked at AWS while stealing data stored on AWS S3. Even if
         | those buckets were publicly open, common Joe did not knew it
         | nor their names.
         | 
         | Why would you consider it irrelevant?
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | I worked for the federal government for 6 weeks one summer
           | when I was in school 20+ years ago. I guess that would make
           | anything I do "state sponsored hacking"?
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | It seems like the breach happened after she left the company.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | _She worked at AWS while stealing data stored on AWS S3_
           | 
           | According to the article she only worked at AWS for a year
           | and hadn't worked there for 4 years before executing this
           | attack.
           | 
           | The only argument for relevance would be that she learned
           | 'secret' knowledge about the internal workings of S3 that
           | helped her execute the hack.
        
             | hericium wrote:
             | My bad.
        
       | Beltalowda wrote:
       | The screenshot in the 2019 complaint[1] (page 10) includes a
       | screenshot of the Slack channel they operated, where someone
       | posted:
       | 
       | > Sketchy skit
       | 
       | > don't go to jail please
       | 
       | To which Thompson responded with:
       | 
       | > wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wawaaaaaaa
       | 
       | > I'm like > ipredator > tor > s3 on all this shit ..
       | 
       | > I wanna get it off my server thats why Im archiving all of it
       | lol
       | 
       | > its all encrypted
       | 
       | But ... they posted it on their own GitHub and Twitter accounts
       | ... With their full name in it ... and posted it on a semi-public
       | Slack channel...
       | 
       | I'm not a security expect, but I think may be an op-sec flaw
       | somewhere here...
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/page/file/1194001/download
        
         | boxmonster wrote:
         | It will be interesting to see if she goes to a male or female
         | prison. If she goes to a male prison she's going to need
         | protection. If she goes to a female prison but still has a
         | penis that might cause some controversy.
        
           | charcar wrote:
        
         | sksksksks wrote:
        
       | waterside81 wrote:
       | Any idea what kind of sentence she faces?
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Another story about the case says "up to 20 years" but I assume
         | that comes with all the usual caveats, e.g. they may have just
         | totaled up the maximum sentence from each individual count as
         | if they had to be served consecutively.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | It's grim. Thompson did just about everything they could have
         | done to escalate their sentence short of finding a way to
         | traffic explosive devices or desecrate a veterans cemetery. The
         | sentence in reality will come down to how they account for
         | losses to the victims, but any plausible number here rockets
         | you to the bottom of the sentencing table (the difference
         | between 50MM and 250MM in the sentencing guidelines is much
         | smaller than the difference between $5k and $100k).
         | 
         | Roughly here, you get:                    6 base sentence level
         | for 2B1.1 crimes          +20-28 victim loss(!)          +4
         | multiple victims          +2 sophisticated means or multiple
         | jurisdictions          +2 trafficking in access devices (incl.
         | account numbers)          +4 (maybe) jeopardizing the safety of
         | a financial institution          +2 PII          +4 malware
         | (the indictment more or less demands this one)          +2
         | obstruction or destruction of evidence
         | 
         | Assume no criminal history for the defendant, then, without
         | replicating the whole table, level 10 is 6-12 months, level 20
         | is 3 years, level 30 is 7-9 years, and level 40 is 25-30 years.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | TFW you realize 'tptacek knows more about stuff he doesn't do
           | for a living than you do about stuff you do for a living. :)
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | I break into computers for a living, and stories like this
             | are in the news all the time. I'd probably do much worse
             | at, like, an embezzlement case.
             | 
             | I'm also probably (I hope) wrong about the 2b1.1 loss
             | calculation here; I read the USSC primer on it and it's not
             | super clear but leans me towards the idea that a penalty
             | assessed on Capital One for doing a poor job securing their
             | data can't be included in a loss assessment against
             | Thompson, and I'm not clear that the damages for a settled
             | lawsuit over same could apply either.
             | 
             | So total losses could be in the single-digit millions (as a
             | general rule of thumb, you can't get convicted in federal
             | court of hacking a real company and incur less than ~100k
             | in damages, simply because of the cost of insurance-
             | mandated forensics investigations --- here I don't really
             | see any chance that the "actual damages" could have been
             | less than 7 figures given the magnitude of what was
             | stolen).
             | 
             | There is also, per the USSC document, a formula for
             | computing damages "per access device", where "access
             | device" is a term of art that includes account numbers, so
             | that could also generate a nosebleed sentence.
             | 
             | For no reason whatsoever, just based on doing this exercise
             | for every 18 USC 1030 case that's been in the news for the
             | last decade or so, my wild-ass underinformed guess is that
             | the sentence will end up under 10 years, but more than 5.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | You need one of these
               | 
               | https://twitter.com/80snewsscreens/status/153451127149155
               | 532...
               | 
               | but with 'Forum Sentencing Expert'
        
             | gfd wrote:
             | He does security for a living. It seems pretty important to
             | know how much jail time you would be facing if you cross
             | the line from whitehat to blackhat (including who legally
             | gets to decide that line).
        
           | greyface- wrote:
           | > +2 PII
           | 
           | > +2 trafficking in access devices (incl. account numbers)
           | 
           | FWIW, the jury found her not guilty on these particular
           | counts (9 and 10).
           | 
           | https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.27.
           | ..
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | That's a good catch; I just grabbed the indictment from
             | PACER. Worth noting though that they don't have to find
             | Thompson guilty on those counts to trigger those
             | accelerators (and it's hard to believe Thompson could dodge
             | the PII sentencing modification since there's zero doubt as
             | to whether their conduct involved PII).
             | 
             | Ultimately though I think it'll come down to how much money
             | Capital One lost dealing with this and the aftermath
             | (again, I assume less the fines and lawsuit).
        
       | jalino23 wrote:
       | this is why as a frontend developer. Im scared to deploy to aws.
       | there so many things in the dashboard to get wrong if you don't
       | know what you're doing. and I don't know what I'm doing. I stick
       | to digital ocean and netlify
        
         | jhugo wrote:
         | Never ever use the dashboard to configure your production
         | deployments, on any cloud. From the moment you create the
         | account, use automation (Terraform, provider-specific stuff
         | like CF, whatever) to create resources. The learning curve is
         | not that big, and you will have certainty about, and control
         | over, what is running in your account.
        
           | polishdude20 wrote:
           | Does AWS have a way to export your infrastructure to a
           | terraform file? Like if I start doing things via the
           | dashboard and later want to use terraform?
        
             | jhugo wrote:
             | I saw "aws-prod-infrastructure" and "terragen" on the AWS
             | blog recently, which are claimed to solve this. I haven't
             | tried them.
        
               | karmajunkie wrote:
               | I've used terraformer. It generates a bunch of HCL that's
               | useful but verbose, and you can target certain kinds of
               | resources with it. It'll do in a pinch but can't say I
               | loved it.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | Every time I use Terraform I want to make a Lisp dialect
               | that describes cloud infrastructure.
        
             | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
             | Terraform has the ability to import it
        
               | 8organicbits wrote:
               | In my experience you need to find each resource one by
               | one, and then import each one. Sometimes by name, some by
               | ARN, some by something else. The import approach is time
               | consuming.
        
             | _petronius wrote:
             | No, but Terraform has a way of importing it (via the
             | `terraform import` command), although it is clunky to use
             | for an account with lots of resources.
             | 
             | CloudFormation (the AWS-provided IaC product) may have
             | something, though.
        
           | akira2501 wrote:
           | I disagree. If you don't fundamentally understand how the
           | services work on their own, or how to repair them outside of
           | your selected framework, you're setting yourself up for
           | failure down the road.
           | 
           | You'll also have very little visibility in how to effectively
           | test your configuration and ensure the security you _think_
           | you have is actually in place and functioning correctly.
        
         | rectang wrote:
         | I agree. The AWS interfaces are poorly designed, difficult
         | enough to use well that "mistakes" are statistically guaranteed
         | to happen.
         | 
         | It is laughable to hold those who make S3 buckets public
         | accountable yet underplay the contribution of interface design.
         | It's as if the NTSB had a report template with only a single
         | checkbox for "pilot error".
        
           | mwint wrote:
           | This used to be worse than it is now. Today there's all kinds
           | of warnings about buckets that can be publicly accessed. It
           | takes quite a bit of work to make one public, not something
           | you'd do without knowing anymore.
        
           | nfRfqX5n wrote:
           | S3 buckets are private by default. I'm pretty sure it warns
           | you very heavily when making items public too.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Yeah, AWS lets you do things--especially related to billing
             | --that can really burn you if you make a mistake or don't
             | know what you're doing. But making S3 buckets public is
             | something they've really put guardrails on over time.
        
               | djitz wrote:
               | I've always found the main issue is not how easily you
               | can make a bucket public, it's knowing how to utilize a
               | private bucket to serve assets or media in the first
               | place.
        
             | Serow225 wrote:
             | They are now, but IIRC that was not previously the case.
        
               | everfrustrated wrote:
               | S3 Buckets have _always_ been private by default.
        
           | stef25 wrote:
           | S3 buckets are now very clearly labelled as being public,
           | perhaps even private by default.
           | 
           | Not so long ago this wasn't the case and various grey hat
           | services would let you explore public buckets via a nice
           | interface / API. What you could find was pretty shocking.
           | 
           | The idea of "don't use it if you don't know how" still
           | applies though. In this world so many things can go wrong if
           | you don't understand what button does what but that's not an
           | excuse imho - AWS isn't designed for non technical people.
        
           | ranman wrote:
           | 1) I think your opinion here is 3-4 years out of date. Check
           | out the modern interfaces.
           | 
           | 2) at a bank's scale it should not be using the console for
           | anything in production.
        
             | rbanffy wrote:
             | Banks also use Excel and VBA macros for a lot of things
             | that deeply scare me. It feels like the planet's financial
             | systems are kept together by spit and prayer.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | > Capital One, which is one of 30 institutions hacked by Thompson
       | 
       | AKA: Capital One left customer data in a publically available s3
       | bucket.
       | 
       | I'm not defending what this "hacker" did at all but this is 100%
       | the company's fault. That $270M? That's from fines and settling a
       | class action by their customers. Again, not defending the hacker
       | but all the hacker really did was shine a light on this (doesn't
       | appear they sold/used the data unless I'm missing something).
        
         | geoduck14 wrote:
         | I spoke with a CapitalOne employee after this hack who was
         | involved in "cleaning up" the security. He wasn't allowed to
         | discuss specifics, but he did share some fun facts:
         | 
         | The hacker was very smart
         | 
         | The hacker chained together "about 6 or 7" different exploits
         | to get to the data. Note, this means it is much harder than
         | "leaving an S3 bucket public"
         | 
         | The hacker _tried_ to sell the data, but couldn 't find a buyer
         | before being found out
        
           | ransom1538 wrote:
           | That is crazy to me. `hacker chained together "about 6 or 7"
           | different exploits to get to the data` <- but somehow the
           | hacker couldn't use $5 per month vpn?
        
             | ctvo wrote:
             | The hacker did use a VPN, but they also posted snippets of
             | the stolen data online, possibly to brag or find potential
             | buyers, that eventually led to their real identity.
             | 
             | VPN isn't cruise control to anonymity. Being based in a
             | country without an extradition treaty to the US probably
             | offers much better protection e.g. Russia, China.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | yellow_lead wrote:
         | Yeah the hack didn't cost them $270 million. Screwing up did.
        
         | codedokode wrote:
         | I find it suspicious too. As I understand, the fines are not
         | for being a victim of a hack, but for not storing the data
         | properly and securely. Therefore bank should have paid those
         | fines even if it hadn't been hacked.
        
         | happyopossum wrote:
         | > AKA: Capital One left customer data in a publically available
         | s3 bucket
         | 
         | That's not what happened, that's uninformed forums speculation
         | that you've seen repeated often enough you assume it's true.
         | 
         | Krebs and one of Cloudflare's PMs have both gone into some
         | depth about this - it involved an SSRF attack against a non-
         | public S3 bucket among other things. Krebs' article is
         | particularly interesting as it has screenshots of tweets from
         | her describing the process.
         | 
         | https://ejj.io/blog/capital-one
         | 
         | https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/07/capital-one-data-theft-i...
        
       | thedougd wrote:
       | Is my analysis correct in that Capital One ran a WAF with an
       | instance role that had overly permissive access to unrelated S3
       | buckets?
        
         | jasonladuke0311 wrote:
         | That's my understanding of what happened.
        
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